David McKnight on acting, Jitney, and civil rights

¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ and a long list of other movies and television appearances. He is a seasoned stage actor who has appeared in over 75 plays. And as I mentioned in the opening, he recently played the part of Fielding in the August Wilson's play, Jitney, at the Pasadena Playhouse. David, welcome to the Coon Rhyme Report. Hello, Mel. Yeah, thanks for allowing me to come on. It's exciting. Can you talk a little about your early life and how you began acting at Wyndham Phillips High School in Chicago? Oh, boy, yeah. Thanks for bringing me on, Mel. It's a pleasure to be here and have the opportunity to share with you and your audience some of my experiences and background and so forth. I came up in Chicago, grew up in Chicago, came from Mississippi, Shelby, Mississippi, when I was like five years old. My family migrated. I migrated to Chicago, and I later went to Wyndham Phillips High School. And coming up from a poor, poor family, pretty much grew up on welfare and poverty, the likes of that, I always started delivering newspapers when I was like seven and a half years old. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. And my parents could not afford to send me to their parents. I wanted to find out what I wanted to do with my life. When I entered Wendell Phillips High School, I took an elective class, not really knowing what to do and so forth. I decided I wanted to see what drama was all about, and I took a drama class. My drama instructor was Miss Bessie Coteworth at Wendell Phillips High School. I went in there. We started talking about plays and studying in the auditorium of Wendell Phillips High School. Then we did this play. I'm not sure if the name of the first play I did is correct. I think it was like Green Pastures. I got on that stage, and I got involved and engulfed in this character. It was a country, bumpkin kind of character. When I was on the stage and I started acting and feeling the experience of acting, it just went deep inside of me. I felt it so strong. I said, wow, I think this is it. This is what I'd like to do. This is what I'd like to do for the rest of my life. This is something that I think I could hold on and love and work at and be comfortable with as a life's pursuit. At that particular time when I was in Wendell Phillips, there wasn't very much opportunity for African Americans in film and television and stage. Coming from a very poor family, I had to work, make a living. I had to put the acting aside until later on, some years later, when I saw on the horizon that there was a little bit more opportunity for African Americans. At that point, I still had it in my heart. I said, I think this is it. After studying a little bit in Chicago and working, doing plays, voiceovers, industrial films, commercials, radio commercials, and the likes of that, poetry albums, and studying and doing everything I could to learn my craft, I had a mentor in Chicago by the name of Harold Johnson. Harold O'Coral Johnson, who later established ETA Theater in Chicago. They're still there now on 77th, I think, and South Chicago Avenue. Let me ask you this, Steve. Before we get into a deep discussion of the stage, screen, and television, can you tell us a little about your military experience and what influence that had on you? Yeah, when I went into the military about when I was young, I think I was about 20 years old, I called the Selective Service, because all my friends were being drafted, and I wanted to find out when they were going to draft me. They said, oh yeah, you're coming up pretty soon. We're getting ready to draft you. And I didn't want to go to the South because of the problems we were having in the South in terms of racism and things like that. But all my friends were telling me about the horrible experiences that they were having, so I went and volunteered. And I volunteered, I went to volunteer, went down to the recruiting office, and I told them I wanted to volunteer and I wanted to go to Africa. And he said, well, we don't have any military. We don't have any military units in Africa. And I said, well, oh, really? I was shocked. He said, well, what do you got? I said, well, we got an outfit in Germany. I said, I'll take it. And I was naive, and I didn't know that it was infantry. So he said, it's infantry. I didn't even know what infantry was, you know, because my concerns were not about the military. So I went in and I found out it was infantry. I'd be digging foxholes and living in the woods for three years. Oh, man. And that really messed my head up. So I said, well, I got a soldier. And I said, if I soldier real hard, maybe something happened for me. And I did it. I did it effectively. And I did everything correct during my basic training. And later, I'm going to say, because of that, my hard work and dedication, I was allowed, I was appointed, you know, given an opportunity to choose what I wanted to do for the rest of my time in the career. And I chose the medical corps, and I was a medical. How was the racial situation then in Germany during that time? Oh, man, horrible, terrible. Really, really bad. It was a bad time, generally speaking. But in the United States and in Germany, went to Germany and everything was segregated. Our unit, black soldiers couldn't go to the nice clubs, enlisted men. Well, the clubs off post, we were all on, you know, stationed on post, and we'd get weekend passes. And it was pretty, pretty bad. We couldn't go to the nice clubs. We could only go to the dives and so forth. And some friends of mine and I formed an organization to try to find out what that was all about. And it was largely because our fellow GIs, Caucasian GIs, did not want to associate with us in those clubs off post. And one of my friends who was in that organization with me was so frustrated because of all the terrible, terrible things that was happening to African Americans until he quit the army. They put him in the stockade and so forth. And he later on joined. And they took him. And he was the leader of the Islamic Revolution. And the Islamic Revolution is the foundation of Islam. Okay. Now, you just finished a run of the August Wilson play, Jitney, at the Pasadena Playhouse where you played the role of Filney. Now, I saw the play at the South Coast Repertory Run and at the Pasadena Playhouse. And I think this is the best play I've seen in a long time. And I truly think this play should be heading for Broadway, especially since it's the only one of August Wilson's plays that's been on Broadway. Can you comment on that and on the process of approaching your role in the play? Yes, I can, Mel. They're quite interesting. You know, as you stated, August Wilson wrote 10 plays about the 10-play chronicles, chronicling the African American experience in the United States of America. Jitney was the first play that he wrote. And out of the 10 plays that he wrote, he's the only one that has been on Broadway. But Jitney is the only one that has not been on Broadway. It was the first one he wrote. So we were hoping, you know, after getting really excellent reviews from doing Jitney and South Coast Repertory Theater and also Pasadena Playhouse, that we would be able to get it on Broadway. And there has been a lot of talk and interest in getting it to Broadway. But thus far, you know, we haven't gotten there yet. But August Wilson. Brilliant, brilliant playwright. A playwright that has been much needed, you know, for African American artists. Charles Gordon, who wrote No Place to Be Somebody, was the first Pulitzer Prize winning playwright in the history of the United States. One play that won a Pulitzer Prize, and I don't think he wrote but maybe two other. I did his other play too called Baba Chops. And I also did No Place to Be Somebody as well. But he only wrote maybe two, three plays. August Wilson wrote ten. And they're both brilliant playwrights. August Wilson is an extremely important playwright to be able to provide, you know, the work and the giving the African American experience, you know, to the world at large. He is just a genius in my opinion. A genius, August Wilson. And providing employment. Providing employment for African American artists. And largely, what I want to say too, make note of, is that in the majority of his plays he wrote for black men. And while I was doing that play, we had a question and answer. And somebody asked the question, why does he write for so many men in the plays and so few women? Well, in my opinion, just my personal opinion, is that August Wilson being a sensitive, very conscious man, understands the need that the black male needs to be shown to the world in his humanity, you know. Also to be able to provide jobs, to provide money for his family, being head of household. The male is important. So I think August Wilson being a male himself, he understood that. So he wanted to write for black men who've been denied in this country. Right. So that they have opportunity. So that they can be shown in terms of their humanity and so forth and so on. Because they have been looked at primarily incorrectly. You know what I mean? He wanted us to correct that and show the humanity. Okay. Beauty and the strength of African American men. Okay. Now I think we got a call waiting on the line. Who am I speaking with? Hi, it's Jamal Salam here. Hey, Jamal, how you doing? You got a question for David, huh? I sure do. How you doing, David? It's great hearing your voice and your magnificent experiences in the theater. If anybody's a fan, I'm number one. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Appreciate it. Dr. Munger is here. He wants to say something also. I was just listening. I knew that you were an actor with very deep-seated feelings about acting and about African American men in theater. And I was going to say, what would you advise, given the new climate of Hollywood, what would you advise a young professional to do to get more and more roles? Okay. I think your question is, what is my opinion that upstart actors, struggling actors, so to speak, new coming actors, what can they do to gain more employment in Hollywood? Is that what your question is? Exactly. Exactly. Okay. I would say that to develop their professionalism, study as much as you can, understand also that it's a business. And that's one of the most difficult sides of it is the business side of it. A lot of people have talent. A lot of people have talent and the ability to perform, the ability to do the job. But one of the things that they may fall short on is the business aspect. The business aspect of it, because it is a business. And there's so many things that you have to do on the business side in order to gain employment. So you have to seek out and understand what the business side is. Become familiar with your union, Screen Actors Guild of American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, which has just joined SAG-AFTRA now. And also Actors' Equity Association. Find out about these unions and how they protect you. And so forth. Find out about casting directors and agents and stuff like that. Find out what it is that they do, how you have to work with them, and how you have to be professional with them, and so forth, in order to sustain and maintain employment in the industry. That business side is very important once you get your talent straight. Okay. Jamal, how about Dr. Mongo? You got a question? Yeah. Hold on here. All right. I'm very employed. I'm very employed. Why don't you try to contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. Why don't you contact me. He can come down into, say, Skid Row community and maybe have a workshop and let them know what he's done, you know, the things he's done. Maybe perform or play down there with your company, in fact, because you've had him on your show for a few times at the exchange. But Jetny is a great one. And he was really great as Stilde in there. Thank you. Yeah. Go ahead. I was in the front row. I saw you, too. I saw you sitting out there, Dr. Monner. I pointed my finger at you, too. So, you know. Okay, Dr. Go ahead. Okay. Hey, thank you very much for calling in. And be sure to listen to the rest of the show. We got something lined up for you. Yes, we will listen. I will be listening to the rest of the show. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Mongo and Jamal. And thank you very much. Thank you for your support, Doc. Thank you very much. Oh, sure. Always. Okay. Yeah, that's Dr. Mongo and Jamal. Peace and blessings. Yeah. Peace and blessings. Peace and blessings. Yeah, that's Jamal and Dr. Mongo. Look, let me ask you something else, David. What is your process for learning lines? Oh, boy. That's a good one. That's a good one. Good question. You know, I go to the bottom line and say by rote, you know, and that is by doing the best that you can by any means necessary. Repetition. Repetition. Absolutely. By rote. But also, what it depends on is the individual. Some actors, individuals, have photographic memories. Some actors, individuals, don't have. They have a semi-photographic memory. Some actors. Some actors. Some actors. Some actors. Some actors. And they have talent, but they don't have good memory skills. So, depending upon what your level is, depends upon what you're going to have to do in order to learn those lines. Now, if you have a photographic memory, they come to you as a snap. But if you recognize the fact, well, I'm a slow learner, it takes me a while, then that means you got a woodshed. You got to start early and dig deep. You know what I mean? And you do it by every means necessary. You could, you know, say them over and over and over and over and over, day and night, morning, noon, and night. You can write them down, write it in pencil over and over and over. Because when you take a pencil and write something down, it does enhance your memory a little bit more than just speaking it out. With a pencil. With a pencil in your hand. You just write those lines out. And you try to do it from memory. First, you can do it by just looking at the script and then writing it out verbatim as you're reading it from the script. And there's something about that hand, the pencil in your hand, mind, pencil, contact, and writing will keep. We'll dig it a little bit deeper into your memory. You do that. Then you can put it on tape. You put it on tape and you can listen to it over and over and over. Then, like a lot of my actor friends and myself, what we do, we go to the park. We go out by the ocean or something. And we get out there and speak out those lines. You know what I'm talking about. Speak those lines over and over and over. You can whisper those lines. You sing those lines. You do everything you can take. When I was starting out as an actor, one of the things that I enjoyed doing, what I would try to find, every time I would take a piece of paper, I would take a piece of paper and write it down. Every aspect of how I could perform my lines. I sing my lines. I laugh my lines. I get angry with all my lines, everything. I'm angry through every line in there. I laugh at every line. I sing every line. You know, I clown every line. I do everything because let me share this with you. And I do coach actors. One of the things that we do as actors, our bodies are our instrument. Every aspect of our body is our instrument. We don't play. You know, if you're a piano player, your piano is your instrument. If you're a horn player, your horn is your instrument. But see, our bodies are our instrument. So that means it's our ears, our eyes, our voice, you know, our energy, everything, you know, our mannerisms, movements and everything else. So we have to train that instrument and we have to work with that instrument. And so you take that instrument and put it in any all kinds of technique and environments that you can in order to be able to use it. And so we have to train that instrument and put it in order to be able to use it. And so we have to train that instrument and put it in order to be able to use it. When the time is necessary. But getting back to remembering those lines, you just do it over and over and over and over and over until you got it. When I was in high school, when I was in high school, I think we studied the Gettysburg Address. Four score, seven years ago, our forefathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation. I remember that now. I can say those lines right now. But I had to learn them, say it over and over and over because the teacher wanted to hear us say it, right? And we said it over and over until we got it memorized. In the same way with your acting lines, you got to say it over and over, read it silently, think about it, analyze it, and do every single thing you can to get it absorbed in your memory bank. Now, let me ask you this about kidney. Okay, when you guys, how many table sessions did you, when you was getting ready first at the South Coast, how many table sessions before you moved into blocking? Okay, you mean table reads? Yes. Now, we probably, he started early. We only had maybe about four or five. Yeah. Yeah. He started early. Well, now myself, you know, at my age, you know, I'm not a young, I'm not a 25-year-old actor. And you got to put all, you got to put those into play. You got to put, you know. So I had to say, well, I need to start early. So then I zero in and say, well, what's going to be the most difficult part for me to do in this play? So I studied. I studied my monologues. I had two monologues in that play. So I studied those extensively. So when I went in for my first table read, I had those monologues memorized. Completely memorized. And I thought one of the things that I really liked about the play is the ensemble nature of the characters. How they would seem to be in touch with each other, you know. I mean, the whole slice of life thing that came through in this play. And I guess it came from a lot of rehearsal. A lot of rehearsal. A lot of rehearsal. The great actors that you had. Yeah, consciousness on the part of the actors. Yeah, yeah. Who understand the connectivity of each of those characters based on August Wilson's writing. And a good director who, you know, directed us in toward that idea. And then you had a powerful lead actor also who you worked with before. Yeah, my good friend Charlie Robinson. Yeah, he's a great actor. You know, and I love working with him. I worked with him before. And I have a lot of. I have admiration and respect for his talent. It was good working with him. We had some good scenes together. Mm-hmm. Now, I think you've already answered this, but I'm going to throw it out again. What advice would you give young actors, especially African-Americans, trying to break into the business? You know, I want to say that I have a buddy, a man, who brought his son to me. His son was about 12 years old. My son wants to be an actor, you know. I said, what can you tell him to do? I said, first thing I told him, get a dictionary. Okay? Get a dictionary. He said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get a dictionary. I said, well, he got the computer. I said, good. Stay on that computer. Because as an actor, this is one thing. You get scripts, you get stories, and you get writers. You, Melvin Ishmael Johnson, you're an excellent writer. Okay? And you know a lot of words. You know what I mean? Because you studied, right? And a lot of writers are brilliant writers. August Wilson. They know a lot of different words. We're not close to all those words. But we got to understand those words. And that's one thing. You cannot, as an actor, go in auditioning or doing a play and not understanding the meaning of those words. I mean thoroughly and completely. That is your responsibility. You got to know that. So first thing I tell a young person, you know, starting off, of course, go to college, get as much education as you can. But get a dictionary. Go to the computer. And understand. That you got to know those words and break those words down. I've done plays with actors that can't pronounce the words. Don't know the definition of the words and can't pronounce the words. That's a big, big, huge mistake. Yeah. You follow me? I follow that. Because, I mean, especially writers in Hollywood. A lot of these writers in Hollywood and the Writers Guild and so forth. These are very brilliant, educated people. They come up with some words I never could imagine I'd ever heard. What the heck does that word mean? So I got to give respect to that and go to that. Computer, go to that dictionary and get a good, clear understanding of the definition and pronunciation of that word. So I can say to young people trying to make it in the business, you know, understand that you must educate yourself in all aspects of training that you can. You can do dance. You can do it. Everything you can learn to do is going to be good for your acting, dancing, singing, mime, you know, juggling. Everything that you can do. Learn to do a whole lot of things. Riding a motorcycle, riding a bicycle, roller skating, ice skating, swimming. Everything you can do to enhance that instrument. If your body is your instrument, learn how to use that instrument in many kind of ways. Kung fu, karate, everything you can do. You know, poetry, all kinds of stuff. You know what I mean? Don't be afraid to go venture out and learn things to enhance your instrument and your character. Now, let me ask you this. A few weeks ago, we discussed. The state of African American theater. And we focus in on two topics here in the studio. We talked about Theophilus Lewis and his vision for a national African American theater company. And then we also talked about the federal theater project when the United States had a national theater company, which was a federal theater project. What are your thoughts on the need for a national African American theater? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the company. I think it's a brilliant idea, Mel. I've heard it tossed around before and you mentioned it to me. We talked about it a little bit and I think it's a wonderful idea, really. I think it's something that's probably a long time coming and I don't know how long it would take to get there, but I think it's certainly a wonderful idea. As a matter of fact, when I started out as an actor, I was sort of craving something like that, that I could attach myself to as a learning and growth experience, being able to work and be paid enough to be able to pay your rent and survive, not necessarily make the big money of Hollywood, but gain steady employment and practice and exercise your craft. And I think that the national theater that you're talking about could provide that for young people, you know, starting out at the, you know, like I think I mentioned to you before, maybe it's something that could be laid out and drafted out and presented to some of the universities. So young people can start up from that, young people starting that national theater throughout the United States. Yeah. Yeah, because Theophilus Lewis, he felt that, you know, he lived on the time of the 20s and he would review for the Messenger magazine. He was the one that reviewed the black plays, African-American plays, and he really felt that it was great actors and performers around. He thought that the playwrights were the one who were lacking. Because not that they didn't have the talent, but the fact that they were heading in the direction of ministry and musical instead of pure dramatic life. So hopefully, because we talked about, I think we've already had a pattern where this could work, because when we had the Negro, the so-called Negro baseball league, we had teams in most of your major cities that created almost, a separate economy and really stimulated African-American economy and we took a big big drop when they integrated when they integrated and destroyed this economy so the national I think we've already had a pattern that could be sit for a national theatre company situated all over the United States with one centralized location and all of these great plays that come up like Disney come up right now would automatically have the little touring the tour from city to city and work for these actors this is what the federal theatre project was about and it came into existence and it set up where you had different you had a national theatre company then that was made up of Yiddish theatre your Spanish theatre yeah what they call Negro Theatre etc like that but what destroyed the federal theatre project was the the fact that the federal theatre project is most of your early writers and artists and actors were of so-called communists they were really really into the Russian Revolution that has started in 1917 so most of them was labeled communists and this is we reason they destroyed the federal theatre projects let me actually this I would like to get your comments on some historical African-American plays that you've written about in the past and then I'm going to ask you to give us some examples of some of the African-American actors I'm gonna start with Bert Williams the real king of comedy what are your thoughts oh man wonderful thoughts about his talent his ability to to entertain at that you know early stage of our history in this country and finding a way to utilize his talent in an entertaining informative way all of those early actors back then you know in my opinion were very very talented and you know they were doing the best they could to use their craft and their talent to entertain and educate as best they could okay yeah the next one I'd like to mention this Charles Gilpin which Eugene O'Neill considered him to be the greatest actor he ever worked with what do you think about him? Well you know I'm not that familiar with Gilpin but I would certainly be very interested in seeing some footage on him if I could have I haven't done a lot of reading about him but well I'll just say that we had a lot of great great actors that just have not you know had their just reward in history so to speak I mean you got Paul Robeson you got all these other really great artists you know I mean, I even had the opportunity to meet and work with Stepin Fetchit, you know, a long, long time ago. Yes. And Stepin Fetchit, with the kind of coon-shine performance that he did, that man was a very, very intelligent, astute gentleman, you know. But he had the ability to craft that role in such a slovenly way, you know, that he did it. But that's the only opportunity that they had. So a lot of the actors back in the day, I mean, they did what they had to do in order to survive, you know what I mean? But it had nothing to do with their talent. Yeah, and Kipling was one of the early ones to really challenge the playwright, challenge Eugene O'Neill about the use of the N-word throughout the play, the Emperor Jones. That they eventually got him fired and opened the door for Paul. Paul Ropes, the next person I want to mention, whose politics caused a lifelong surveillance by the government. What are your thoughts on Paul Ropes? Oh, my goodness. Paul Ropes, another genius, you know. I think, what did he speak, 15 different languages or something like that? I think, what was it, approximately? Yeah. 15 different languages. Brilliant. He was a football, you know, athletic star. I mean. Lawsman. Huh? An attorney. Yeah, and all of that. I mean, he had so much going for him. And Paul Ropes always tried to stand for something, you know. He understood the conditions that we were in, and he was always fighting for dignity on the part of African-American people. And extremely talented, I mean, an opera singer or something. You know, I mean, he was just everything. Paul Ropes was one of our, you know, icon geniuses of the early days. Yeah. And what I liked about him is that you couldn't define him with just an actor. No, no, no. Because he was really a man of the world. Yeah, yeah. In a way, he reminded me of what was happening with Marcus Garvey, who had an international view of the world instead of a domestic view. And the other person I want to ask you about, she, a lot of people don't know about her. Her name was Rose McClinton. Yeah. And she was a great actress. She was like the mentors. Of, say, Ruby Dee and Ozzie Davis and Sidney Poitier that got involved. Harry Belafonte and all of them. I mean, she was the mentor of all of them great actors. I thought she lived today. She'd probably be one of your top actors that you have out here. Okay, now let's talk a little about film and television. How did you get the part in one of my favorite old movies? Not too old. J.D.'s Revenge. And what was the experience like? Oh, it was wonderful, wonderful. That was my first Hollywood movie role, starring movie role, so to speak. And it was a wonderful experience working with Glenn Turman and Academy Award winner Louis Gossett Jr. Oh, Louis Gossett Jr. was in Glenn, was in J.D.'s Revenge? Yeah, yeah. Lou, as a matter of fact, was the suspect villain in the movie. But, you know. The direction was pointing to him that he might have been the villain, but he really wasn't. It was his brother who was hiding and sneaking around in the background and was, you know, annihilated at the end of the movie by Glenn Turman. Because my character, J.D., I was a title role character, was killed back in the 40s. I was kind of a gangster type character. We had rival gangs and stuff back there. And my sister and I were killed in the crime. And the crime never was solved. And my spirit came back 40 years later to get revenge on the people that killed me. And I used Glenn Turman's body, you know. And my spirit came into his body and he started acting like me and trying to go out and solve the mystery of how I was killed, my sister and I. And so finally he did it at the end of the movie. He found out that it was Louis Gossett's brother. Okay. Okay. Now, can you talk a little about the Hollywood show? Shuffle and the TV series Dynasty? Yeah, Hollywood Shuffle. Great, great movie. Robert Townsend, friend of mine, talented brother. Man, it was just a joy to work on that movie. And I really didn't, I knew it was pretty good. But, I mean, after it was finished and completed and able to look at it, it was just a classic movie that would go, be around for a long, long time. And it was a guerrilla process. No, no. Five Heartbeats was not. Hollywood Shuffle. Shuffle. Yeah, Hollywood Shuffle. Hollywood Shuffle was the guerrilla movie. Hollywood Shuffle, Robert wrote about it. It was his first film. Did it on his credit cards. Came out of New York. Came to Hollywood and tried to make a guerrilla, you know, underground movie, so to speak, on a low budget. He used his credit cards, about $45,000. And he took the risk, you know. And I collaborated with him along with some other actors. And I quote him when I say, he said, Thanks, David, you saved my film. Because I should have. And I showed him how to make it work. He had it like 50 to 65% completed. And he didn't know how to make it work and how to finish it. And I told him, because I have those kinds of skills, you know, to be able to look at something. And that's a talent that I have. Look at something. Know how to make it better. I'm not a writer. I don't know how to do it too well from the beginning. But I can look at something and make it better. You know, through vision and so forth. And I told Robert how to make it work. And out of that, I got a role in the film. I'm playing his uncle in the movie, A Barber in a Barbershop. And it turned out great. And after that, he was able to go and do the five heartbeats. Now, let me ask you this. What is the difference in acting on the stage and acting in films and television? Good question. Basically, fundamentally, the difference is that when you're working on film, it's much smaller. And it's quieter, usually, when you're on stage. And it's quieter. And it's quieter. And it's quieter. You must project. You must articulate. And you must profoundly project. Projection is very important. And you have to train your voice. You have to know how to use your voice on that stage so you can bounce it off that back wall. Because this is a personal thing on my part. I don't believe that any actor should be on that stage and not be heard. Yeah. Whether you're in the balcony, in the corner of the balcony. You need to hear every word that that actor is saying. What advice can you give an actor? To help them understand the concept of projection. Because I find this to be one of the major problems with young actors. Absolutely. Absolutely. First of all, I always like to say you've got to give respect to it. You have to give respect to it by understanding, hey, I've got to learn how to use my voice. And once you decide to recognize that, then you can take voice classes, voice and diction classes. I've taken classes like that. All kinds of voice and diction classes. Then I get on that stage myself. And learn how to throw my voice against that back wall, against the corners of this, that, and the other. Learn how to speak from the diaphragm. You know, and project it out there. Learn how to articulate and enunciate so that you're hitting all the consonants and stuff. And understand that you must be, the last few words of every sentence must be heard. That you can't start off loud and then trail off on the end and the audience don't hear what you're saying. You've got to understand. You've got to complete the whole sentence in an audible way. And articulate and enunciate so that the audience can clearly understand every word that you're saying. Okay. Now, David, last year in honoring Dr. Martin Luther King on the King holiday, you did an outstanding reading of Dr. King's letter from the Birmingham jail, which we will be performing live later on in the studio. But I would like to bring in our other interviewees. I want to introduce you to your guest, Lee Shaw, to join in the discussion. And to discuss the time that Dr. King moved into a run-down ghetto apartment on Chicago's west side to politicize the issue of fair housing. I would like to first read from an article from the Urban Habitat talking about this incident. And it reads, On January the 26th, 1966, Dr. Martin Luther King, moved into a run-down ghetto apartment in Chicago's west side to politicize the issue of fair housing. The segregated neighborhood provided a furlough ground for King and other activists to launch a national campaign to confront the fierce inequality of America's inner cities. Like the Cabrini-Green Project, King's neighborhood was tibble, and the city was a local of the North Lawndale District of Chicago, referred to as Slumdale by its residents. It was known for its rotting infrastructure, chipping paint, rodent infestation, and lack of heating. Now, how can the artistic communities like writers and actors reflect the message of what Dr. King was trying to do here in the inner cities of Chicago? Dr. King, I'm a former member of the Chicago Public Broadcasting Association. Why don't you come down here and talk to me about what you could have said earlier today. You want to comment on that? Lee, you can take that one. Well, you know, let me start by saying this right here. Most actors are people of the craft, right, especially black people. They have to take the stairs where everybody has to take the elevator, you know. So Dr. King being a world figure now after he received the Nobel Peace Prize, right, you got to go down there. See, you have to bring the unknown to the people because don't nobody care what happens in the little areas. So he wanted to bring focus, right, to the housing. Just like here in L.A., this is Chicago, you know what I'm saying. When you go to the hood, right, people don't know what happens in the hood. They just hear about it. Now I don't want to hear about that. That's too boring. That's just depressing to me. I'd rather hear about something else, you know. And he was. He was bringing it out. But for the people in the craft, they need to continue that, right. You need to continue to let it be known that these things exist, right. And you do it through your writing, your singing, or whatever you do in the craft. And you bring it out, you know what I'm saying. Because if you don't bring it out, if the actors, the writers, the world don't bring it out, it's not going to get out. It's going to be wrecked. It's going to be hooded up, you know, covered. Right. And what Dr. Martin Luther King did is he just brought it out. By him being a figure. So most things, and people recognize this. Once you become a world figure, right, now you got the world. You got judge and jury. The whole world is judge and jury over whatever thing you're taking. Whatever you're doing. Whatever you're getting into. So him being in that slumdale or, you know, whatever you call it. It kind of just brought out things the way you really, why black folks really have to live upon somebody else's conditions. You know what I'm saying? Somebody else's forced conditions. No matter how hard you try, they're going to keep you in a little box. He just brought it out. Okay. Can I add to that? Go ahead. Very well stated. Very well stated, Lee. And I can add to what he's saying is like having the artists and the leaders take a look at what they're doing. What's going on in the communities. And then find a positive way to find solutions. You know what I mean? The writers. You look at it. You take a look at it. And then you find in your writing, in your assessment of what's going on, how can we make it better? Dr. King, I'll close by saying this. Dr. King said everybody can be great because everybody can serve. So you're serving as a writer. You're serving as a civil rights leader. You're serving as an instructor. You're serving the community in the best way that you can to make it better, make it more positive. Okay. Now, at this time, I would like to present David McKnight reading from Dr. King's letter from a Birmingham jail. My dear fellow clergymen, while confined here in the Birmingham, South Carolina, I came across your recent statements calling my present activities unwise and untimely. Seldom do I pause to answer criticisms of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that come across my desk, my secretaries would have little time for anything other than such correspondence in the course of the day. And I would have no time for constructive work. But since I feel that you are men of genuine goodwill and that your criticisms are sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to the country. I am not concerned about what happens in Birmingham. I am concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Why could Dublin have väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl väl to determine whether injustice exists. Negotiation, self-purification, and direct action. We have gone through all these steps here in Birmingham. There can be no gain saying the fact that racial injustice engulfs this community. Birmingham is probably the most thoroughly segregated city in the United States. Its ugly record of brutality is widely known. We know that through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor. It must be demanded by the oppressed. Never before have I written so long a letter. I'm afraid it is much too long to take your precious time. I can assure you that it would have been much shorter if I had been writing from a comfortable desk. But what else can one do? When he's alone in a narrow jail cell, other than write long letters, think long thoughts, and pray long prayers. If I have said anything in this letter that overstates the truth and indicates an unreasonable impatience, I beg you to forgive me. If I have said anything that understates the truth and indicates my having a patience that allows me to settle for peace, I beg you to forgive me. If I have said anything that understates the truth and indicates my having a patience that allows me to settle for anything less than brotherhood, I beg God to forgive me. I hope this letter finds you strong in the faith. I also hope that circumstances will soon make it possible for me to meet each of you, not as an integrationist or civil rights leader, but as a fellow clergyman and a Christian brother. Let us all hope that the dark clouds of racial prejudice will soon be gone. Let us all hope that the dark clouds of racial prejudice will soon be gone. Let us all hope that the dark clouds of racial prejudice will soon pass away, and the deep fog of misunderstanding will be lifted from our fear-drenched communities. And in some not-too-distant tomorrow, the radiant stars of love and brotherhood will shine over our great nation with all their scintillating beauty. Yours for the cause of peace and brotherhood, Martin Luther King Jr. Thank you, David McKnight. Thank you. Now, last Friday, August the 17th, 2012, was the birthday of Marcus Garvey. He was born August the 17th, 1877, and died June the 10th, 1940. Last Saturday, I went to a celebration honoring Marcus Garvey, and the thing that stood out in my mind was all of the hate-filled and misguided organizations that used the event to push their own agenda, and the teachings and meaning of Marcus Garvey were secondary. They're always talking about the problem, but never talking about solutions. Marcus Garvey had the solutions to all of the problems these organizations keep talking about. I would like to get some comments from Lee about that. Yeah, you know, me being there, it kind of, it saddened me because 10% of that event was about Marcus Garvey, and the other 90% was about something totally different. If you're going to honor somebody, then you honor them 100%. That's the best you're going to get, right? Evidently, people didn't understand Marcus Garvey. Marcus Garvey's program was foolproof. It was foolproof because, one, if you got to frame me up, to get me in jail, to take me out of serving my people, then my program must have been more powerful than even he could have thought, right? So to take something away from Marcus Garvey, even his name, right, and what he represents, is to totally rewrite the history on your own frivolous time. And for me, I just kind of, you know, I'd like to go to another event like that, but it's doubtful, it's doubtful. Because you got to come real with this right here. I think that 100%, if I took a dollar out of my pocket right now, right, and asked you what was 100% of that dollar, you'd say the whole dollar. But if I just took 10% of it all, you'd say there's 90% left. You know what I'm saying? You can't take away from history like that. You can't take away from the greatness of Marcus Garvey. That's ludicrous, man. You know what I'm saying? What do you think is the meaning of Marcus Garvey for our young people today? If the young folks... want to know what works, they need to study Marcus Garvey. They need to do that. Even the other people, you know what I'm saying? With your program, with the different programs they have, you need to go back and find out what works. You know what I'm saying? And then improve on what works. I believe it was Malcolm who said that. Why do you want to change something that works? Just improve on it. You know what I'm saying? And what they're doing, people are doing now, they want to twist it. And that's a part of the same type of system that you're sitting in with people that want to change things around, and the only person that benefits from it is those who don't ever want you to get there. Yeah. Because we very seldom hear, like, the teachings of Dr. King. You know, they emphasize a lot about Dr. King. Just the name. Yeah, they only get down to what he was talking about, what he was trying to achieve by Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, etc., like that. You know, just one thing. King put this country in the spotlight, right? Those who are corrupt. Those people that want to do things their way, the power structure, the big brain people. He put them up in the spotlight. See what these people will do. They're saying one thing, but they'll do something totally different. You stick the dogs on me. You're beating me up. You put the water hose on me. What sane person, caring person, would do that? You know, Donald Elijah Muhammad, he was calling him a devil. Well, now, I'm not saying he a devil, but he sure acting like one. Now, look, at this time, Mr. Lee Shaw would do a reading from Marcus Garvey's farewell speech before he was deported from New Orleans. He was standing on the deck of the USS Saramaca, and this was the year December the 2nd, 1927. So, Mr. Lee Shaw. I want to thank my fellow brothers and sisters of New Orleans for your support. I say this to the millions of our members throughout the world. Cheer up, for the work has just begun. We have reached a time when every minute, and every second must count for something done in the cause of Africa. Be steadfast, for the work of the UNIA should go forward, and I in life and death will continue to serve the cause of our people. It falls to our lots to tear off the shackles that bind Mother Africa. Climb ye the heights of liberty, and cease not until ye plant the banner of the red, black, and the green upon the hilltops of Africa. I shall live in the physical as well as the spiritual to see the day of Africa's glory. Africa's sun is steadily and surely rising, and soon shall shed its rays around the world. Look for me in the whirlwind. Look for me in the storm. You're the masters of your own destiny, the architects of your own fate. One God, one aim, one destiny. Africans for Africans. Okay, thank you, Lee Shaw, reading the farewell speech of Marcus Godley. Now, let's get some closing comments from our two interstudio guests, starting with Mr. David McNichol. David, you first. David McNichol, the director of the American Academy of Sciences. And then, Lee Shaw. I'd like to make a comment based on what Lee was talking about earlier, and what you conversed about, Melvin. Dr. King, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, and all the, August Wilson, all the great historical black figures of the past. What I think that's very, very important, that we can share with our listening audience, that we all have to think about. What can we do to make a positive contribution to society and to humanity? What is it that we can do to make a positive contribution to society, to humanity, to our people, to our children, to our families? What is it that we can do to make a positive contribution? If we focus on that, Lee was talking about, Marcus Garvey, the message that he was trying to deliver to his people. We, and all the young people in the various ghettos of the United States, with their pants hanging down below their behinds, and doing the things that they're doing in the community, in the ghettos, if they can just think about what is it that we can do to make a positive contribution to our people, to our families, to our society, and to humanity. Think about it. Thanks, David. Lee. I think David said it all. You know, especially for the young brothers, you know, and the old as well. If you can't think of anything, right, for yourself, then turn to your little brothers and sisters, to your granddaughter and grandson, and think about what you could do for them. You know, some of the best leaders, the greatest leaders we have seen in our time, right, thought very little about themselves, but more about their people. And we have gotten away from that. We can see the little kid playing, right? We got to take more. We got to pay more attention to the little children, to the kids. You know what I'm saying? And give to them. You know what I'm saying? So I don't have to, they don't have to run across this rocky road that I've been on, you know, that I went through. We can smooth it out a little bit better. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you. Now, I would like to extend a special thanks to David McKnight, Lee Shaw, Nicholas, Jeremy, and the Skid Row Studios. Also, I would like to announce that on Monday, Labor Day, September the 3rd, 2012, we will have a special Qumran Report live in studio, your guest, Jerome St. Jerome, and the topic is the history of the blues. So we're looking forward to that. Please check out our past shows of the Qumran Report on iTunes, Facebook, Twitter, SkidRow.LB. And DramaStage-Qumran.org. Thank you for tuning in to the Qumran Report. And from your host, Melvin Ishmael Johnson, may the peace and blessings of the life-giving creative spirit be upon you and upon your family. Thank you very much. väl väl väl väl väl väl väl Why Chicago was such a center point for all of these great leaders that had to deal with Chicago in some kind of way. Honorable Elijah Muhammad, Malcolm X, Dr. King, had to go deal with even Jesse Jackson, our president that we got today. Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali. Chicago was a center point. We're going to do a whole show on that coming up. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.