Oscar films tax incentives debate with caller

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You're listening to the Nestorius Public Radio Show, live every Thursday night from 9 to 10 p.m. Pacific Standard Time, midnight to 1 a.m. Eastern Standard Time, on skidrowstudios.com. I got my man Rich Red Hair Corbin. What's going on, pal? What's up, everybody? How you doing? All right. Oh, yeah. I got the deep voice going on. Yeah, yeah. We both got the fucking... We're both coming up with the recovering flu situation. Yeah. It's the flu box. Yeah, it's just us, man. No guests. No special effects or any of that stuff. But, you know, it's Oscar season. You know, we got a whole slew of new movies out. And I thought that it would be interesting if we discussed or at least mentioned... some of the nominated films and maybe... Yeah. ...have a little word or two about each and whatever the hell you feel like talking about. You know what I mean? A little blurb, a little blurb. And the thing... When I started, you know, thinking about this topic, I came upon this article that was very interesting. This article about this organization in New York. Let me see. I don't know the name. It's the Manhattan Institute. It's called the Libertarian Manhattan Institute. So they're basically... This article says that all of the nine... five of the nominated films, they get tax subsidies from different states. Now, some of you out there in Podcastville may or may not know this, but different states offer film production, TV production incentives in the form of tax breaks, tax credits. And so that is one of the major determining factors of whether a production is going to shoot in Louisiana, let's say, for instance, or Virginia. Of course, you know, productions, when we talk about movies and TV, you know, you have to take into consideration the budget, right? Mm-hmm. The budget for the film. You also have to take into consideration what locations, you know, are conducive to telling your story, right? Because your location is as good as a character, right? So there's only so much you could do to create a location without being there, per se, right? You can shoot somewhere in California, in, you know, canyon country up north in the valley, and it could be Australia. You know, set properly, it could be Australia. You don't know where it is. Yeah, with a set of MASH, the TV... The TV show was right there off of PCH, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of those old ranches, I mean, back in the day, they were all annexed production TV studios. Anyway, but the point is that when a production is in the evolutionary stages, you know, you got the budget, you have the script, they want to do this, they want to do this film, and, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio is attached, and okay, Martin Scorsese is going to direct it, blah, blah, blah. Right. Right. Right. Where do you want to shoot this film? Well, you know, New York State, New York State will give a certain amount of a tax incentive. You know, for instance, I'll break down these movies, and then we'll kind of go all over the place. We'll jog all over the place. So, for instance, Wolf of Wall Street had a $100 million budget, right? And New York State gives them a 30% tax credit, which is pretty good. That's a $300,000. That's a $300,000 cash back, so to speak. They don't get the cash back, but technically, if, you know... They take a little loss. Right. They'll have to pay, from what I understand, instead of paying tax on $100 million, they'll pay tax revenue on, you know, $900,000, $700,000 or something to that effect. Am I wrong, or am I smoking? Well, essentially, yeah, they get a tax break, they'll get a $300,000 tax break, and they can apply that to their taxes, but then that gets sold, right? Do we go that far yet? No, no, no, no. Well, I just wanted to illustrate how... They get a 30% tax break. How different states give different tax incentives. So, for instance, that's... So they get a write-off of $300,000. Right. A third of their budget. Right, right. Essentially. Well, it's not a third. Well, it's a $100 million movie. Yeah, so that's not a third. No, it's 3% less than a third. Yeah, yeah, okay. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Yeah, that's a lot of money. Now, if you were making a movie, wouldn't you try to find these certain tax breaks? Well, sure, sure, sure, because... And then we're going to get into this later on, which is... Okay, so that tax credit... Anyway, let me go up the line. So American Hustle, for instance, had a budget of $40 million. A little less than... A little more than half of what... What Wolf of Wall Street's budget was. So $40 million. And they got, in Massachusetts, a 25% production and payroll credit. A sales tax exemption. So that's a big deal. You know what I mean? So they get a sales tax exemption for anything that they're selling in the state of Massachusetts. Anything the production buys, right? Yeah, yes, correct. Correct. Correct, that's right. Anything that the production buys. Dude, that's amazing. You know, we just made a film. You got to pay tax on everything. In California, it's what, 9%? Mm-hmm. So do the math. Yeah, you're buying a lot of stuff. What's 9% of $100,000? $9,000. $9,000 and change. That's post. That's something in post. Yeah, damn right. So anyway, Captain Phillips, right? Which, amazing film. Yeah, man. Amazing film. It was a lot better than I thought it was going to be. I was like, all right. All these films were amazing, man. They were a lot better than I thought. I was really happy. Yeah. So that was a $55 million budget, and they got a $300,000 grant from Virginia. So that's a little different than a tax credit. That's a grant. They're giving you $300,000 to spend. That's amazing. You know what I mean? So that's a lot of money to give to a production to, you know, say, come do your movie here, right? Mm-hmm. So Gravity, oh, Dallas Buyers Club. Oh, man. That was also beautiful. I love that movie. $5.5 million. Not a huge budget. I think that's the lowest. I think that's the lowest. No, Philomena was $5 million. So Dallas Buyers Club was $5.5. They shot in Louisiana. They got a 30% credit on expenditures and a 5% payroll credit. So whatever the hell they paid out, they get 5% of that back. Mm-hmm. Against their taxes, right? So Gravity was $100 million budget. 25% credit on the first $38 million. So, all right. So the first $38 million, they get a 25% tax credit on expenditures. And then 20% credit on everything that you spend thereafter. Again, not bad. And that's in the UK. So the United Kingdom is giving them this. Mm-hmm. Her, the movie Her. It's a $25 million budget. I don't know why, because the dude's talking to a computer and all of it is voiceover. But $25 fucking million budget for that film? That's a lot of money for a budget. Anyway, they got a 20% tax credit in California. And that's surprising, because California ain't giving shit almost to a lot of film productions or TV productions. But that's interesting. Maybe there's some sort of a, you know, what do you call it? A stipulation or a threshold that they'll give 20% only to film. $25 million and below. I don't know. Right. Sometimes they have... Caps. Caps. Mm-hmm. Or they have conditions. Mm-hmm. You know? So Nebraska, which loved the movie also. You saw Nebraska? You know, I didn't get to see that one. Oh, you didn't see it? No. Okay, okay. So we're not going to talk about that right now. I love Nebraska. I hear good things. It was one of my favorite. Anyway, that was $13 million budget. So Nebraska's $13 million budget. And they shot in Nebraska. Whoa. They shot in Nebraska. Good for them. Yeah. Yeah, they shot in Nebraska, man. That's cool when they do that. Totally. Well, I think... Big up, Nebraska! You cow-eating, corn-popping motherfucker! Big up! That's cool, man, that they shot in Nebraska because the movie is about... Because it's fucking flat there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's... Nebraska, that's nothing. But it's a beautiful film. It's a beautiful film. It's a black and white film. I'll get into it later. Hopefully, we'll, you know, be able to get into that stuff. Anyway, they shot in Nebraska. They're eligible for funds. It's from participating local economic development offices, which is pretty cool. So depending on who is partaking in this, you might get a 20% discount on renting, you know, Farmer John's, you know, farmer implementing or lights or whatever. That's cool, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, it... What is it? Well, you know, then, hey, if we get 20%, then we don't have to lug all the shit around, you know, we don't have to... There's less equipment that you have to break. Whatever it is, whatever it is, it's an incentive. Yeah. All right? It's good. Philomena in the UK. $35 million. They got a 25% credit on the first $38 million and 20% credit thereafter. The same package that they gave to Gravity. That's probably the UK standard deal. 12 Years a Slave. Phenomenal movie. They had a $20 million budget, 30% credit on expenditures and 5% payroll credit. And of course, they shot that in Louisiana. Now, what gets me... I'm not going to get into all that. What gets me is 12 Years a Slave, they basically reconstructed like 100 years of fucking slavery in a movie. You know, plantations and all sorts. That's $20 million. Her, my man is working in a makeshift office talking to a computer, all voiceover, and it's a $25 million. Joaquin Phoenix must have been getting... He must have got about $20 million of that $25 million. And what's her name on The Voice? Doing The Voice. Who did The Voice of that? Fuck. Fuck. It's all right. I forget. I'll find out. It's all right. Don't worry about it. Not a big deal. She got a lot of money, you're saying. Oh, I'm sure. She got buko bucks on that. Well, anyway. Caca. So, to go back to the original opening of the conversation. So, the Manhattan Institute, I guess they say it's a libertarian. They basically said, Monday, five of the nominees, Wolf of Wall Street, Her, American Hustle, 12 Years a Slave. Did I even mention American Hustle on this thing? I don't think I did, huh? No, I didn't. American Hustle, $40 million. Yeah, I did. They shot in Massachusetts. Monday, that five of the nominees, The Wolf of Wall Street, Her, American Hustle, 12 Years a Slave, and Dallas Buyers Group collected state tax credits of 20% to 20% to 35% from respectively New York, California, Massachusetts, and for the last two films, Louisiana. For Wolf, the Institute... Estimated that New York's production tax credit covered up to $30 million of the $100 million budget. So, I said $300,000. It's $30 million. Obviously, I... Well, you said it. Oh, for $100,000. Well, yeah, you said it. I mean, you said it's 33%. Obviously... Or it's 30%. I failed math class. You know, I can never come up with a percentage right off the top of my head when someone says, what's 3% of that, right? Right. Anyway. So... Okay. $100 million. And basically, what they're saying, right? They're saying... Well, here's the deal. The Institute is no fan of subsidies for the movie industry, which it views as fiscally unjustifiable. Similar to most targeted tax breaks, movie production incentives routinely fail to deliver on the economic promises made by their proponents. Supporters frequently claim movie incentives create jobs and lead to net gains in tax revenue. However, data from several states... It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. The pros, the people who support tax credits, their argument is that it creates jobs and it creates tax revenue for the state, blah, blah, blah. These guys are saying that the revenue that these productions create are the equivalent to 30 cents on the dollar. So they're not really generating that much revenue. Or they're losing $30 million on, let's say, Wolf of Wall Street. They're losing $30 million. Well, I mean, I guess you could... The state. The state is losing $30 million. Exactly. And it's an average, though, too. Because if you think about it, 12 Years a Slave, if you shot 12 Years a Slave at that budget and then you shot another movie that had a higher budget, how many more people do you need to shoot a movie on set? How many people on set do you need every day? I mean, you might have a lot of extras and stuff like that, but you're going to hire them locally and all of that. But how much more revenue? If you're doing a $100,000 movie and you're giving them, you're giving them what? $30,000? Or $100,000? On $100 million, you're giving them $30 million. So you're giving them $30 million and they shoot in your state and they get a $30 million tax break. The production gets the $30 million. The production. So the point is, but the problem I'm having with this whole thing is that the other argument to this is that, well, if you give $30 million tax credit, or you're basically giving a production $30 million, then the state, since they're only getting 30 cents on the dollar, they have to find, you know, they have to find a way to get that tax revenue back. Right? From somewhere. Right? So who pays for that? The people. That's their argument. My whole thing is you didn't have that fucking tax revenue. So you're basically, you're creating an argument based on a hypothetical tax revenue. Right? So if a production, if a production doesn't shoot in New York, for instance, Wolf of Wall Street, right? So they don't spend $100 million in your state. So then you didn't have that revenue. You follow what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. You, you, you, you didn't, you didn't have that revenue. Right. You know what I'm saying? So, so the point is completely misleading. Do you follow? If. In one of the articles, right? So give them a, give them a tax break. It's not like you're giving them money. You're giving them a voucher for a tax credit. Correct. So no matter what, if, if, if. If you lure a production company to shoot in New York, then, then they will spend something and they will pay taxes on something. They're going to spend a lot, not something. Well, if you have a hundred million. Let's just say something because we don't know what, how much a production is going to spend. Okay. Because if they give you 30,000, maybe they'll spend 20,000. But if you give them a $30,000 tax credit, you're still going to get 20,000. Well, their argument. Their argument is that they're not getting the 30,000 back. Right. But that's $30,000 that you didn't have in the first place. You follow what I'm saying? Like, so you're saying, well, if you give them a 30, a $30,000 tax break, then where are we going to get that $30,000 revenue? That's the same question you would have to answer whether or not that production shot in your fucking state. Get what you can. Agreed? Yeah. Get what you can. So you're basically, you're getting 30 cents on the dollar, which is better than zero cents on the dollar because that's what you have to start with. You're getting, if, if, in other words, if any of these productions, right? Frickin' Hustle didn't shoot in Massachusetts or 12 Years a Slave didn't shoot in Louisiana, for instance. Louisiana ain't getting no fucking tax. They're not getting any tax revenue because the production's not there. So the question that you have that they have right off the beginning is, so if you give them the break, then we have to pass on, you know, the loss of that tax revenue onto the people. That's bullshit. How are you passing that onto the people? Right. So that's one point that, that I found completely misleading. Mm-hmm. Make sense to you? Mm-hmm. It's just completely misleading because then, then their other argument is that, well, the, the, the proponents of, of having tax breaks to productions in different states say, well, it creates jobs and this, that, and the other. Well, hello, it does create jobs. It does create jobs because let me give you an example. Leonardo DiCaprio, he shoots the movie. Okay. He doesn't need a job, but let me just give you an example of how his fucking. Okay. Working in New York is creating tax revenue for New York. Okay. He works in New York. How much is he getting paid? $30 million. He's got a. Oh, okay. We got a caller. Okay. Hold on one second. Call it. Let me just finish this point. So, so $30 million, right? He gets paid. He doesn't live in New York, but guess what? He's got to pay New York state taxes on that $30 million minus whatever his expenses are. Mm-hmm. So New York state by him working there. Mm-hmm. By working there through that production company is getting revenue. You follow? Right. So it's kind of like, you know, anyway, hi caller. Hello. Listening to your, to your talking about your tax incentives. Hey, how are you? I think this article that you are quoting figures from is clearly against tax incentives. Right. Because you're throwing figures out there that are completely made up and inaccurate. No, no, no, no, no. The, the article, I'm not reading the article. I'm, I'm actually reading figures from the, uh, the economic policies of the Manhattan Institute. They actually have a chart where they actually, uh, uh, have the film and the budget and what the state incentives. That institute, what you're, what you read was that institute is against. I know. I know that. I know that it is. What I'm saying is that the budget. They're of a hundred million dollar moving. They are not getting a $330 million tax credit. The tax credits go for the budget of below the line people, meaning the workers, the actors salaries, the producer's salaries are not allowed to be part of the figure. Got it. That gets tax credit. Got it. That's how it works. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. But that is thin. That is put on a lot of the rhetoric in, in. Political circles that, and it hurts states that don't want the past tax incentives because it's perceived as being giving rich people tax breaks. Right. When the fact is that film and TV production is filled with people that are, first of all, we support union workers, working class people. Yes. Working class. I know. Well, well, well, this is the community. I love. This is this. This is dry cleaners. Of course. Of course. That's the stand that I'm taking. I am totally aware that the site, the Manhattan Institute is completely against state tax credits and incentives. I got that. What I'm saying is it's completely ludicrous. Forget about the, the, the point that you made about below the line, above the line. It doesn't matter. What matters is that every production that goes to any one of these states is creating jobs. When you create jobs. I'm telling you that it matters. Let me, let me finish. Let me finish for the argument that I'm making. It really doesn't matter for the argument that you're making, which is that they put a spin on it so that states can get a tech that are not interested in giving stat tax incentives. Yeah, it matters. But what I'm trying to say here is that these states get, they stimulate the local economy by having a production there. You, like you said, you got to buy, you got to pay for a dry cleaner. You have to rent cars, you have to rent trucks, you have to buy, you know, or rent locations for the actors, locations for production offices. There's so much money that, that gets, that gets spent in a production that people don't even know. Dry cleaners, local. When you're, when you're talking about and trying to present, first of all, it's a huge American industry. Right. You're trying to talk about it in support of it. Right. And it's not accurate to say that to throw out things like a hundred million dollar film and they got $30 million tax credit that right there, you are going to lose people and not in it. Got it. Got it. Got it. I see. I see your point. I see your point. I think that it's all linked because I see your point. I see your point. I see your point. Cause that's not, it's not $300 million. I get it. It's not big. I was just, I was just making a number based on if it was 30%, I understand it's not $300 million. It's 30% of, let's say, you know, $80 million. Okay. But at the end of the day, It goes to working class people. It helps support working class people. Of course. And I'm just saying that there are various states that understand the benefits far outweigh. And I know that's, that's probably your point, but in the state of California, it is a public perception. That is preventing a lot of this from- I know this. I know this. You're, you're obviously, you're obviously an angry producer and, and, and, and you, and you want to, and you want to, and you want to call the Nestorius public radio and stab a Negro in the neck. I get it. You know, I understand. Thank you. You know, you know what? Thank you so much for enlightening us. And, and you know what? You're absolutely right. We're trying to give a positive spin on it. Cause I, I mean, you know, the art, their argument is that they're getting 30 cents. 30 cents on all. Did you hear when I said that you're 30%, 30 cents on a dollar is better than no sense on a dollar because if the- Nothing from nothing. So, so it doesn't matter as far as the model that I'm saying, it doesn't matter if it's $300 million for those are just fucking numbers. I don't care. No, no, but I think that people, I think that things started to, everyone feels entitled like, like that it's a privileged industry. And I think that the perception, the attitude of the people that are in the industry, the perception, the idea when they started publishing box office figures and oh, this actor makes $40 million and this, this is not the norm. Right. No, I know. I know. Here. So I just think everyone thinks they know what box office means. Now everything gets published. You know, we don't have mobile, you know, mobile oil like every week and how much profits they're making. Right. Well you, by the way, by the way, industry that everyone's rich, you can find out what mobile makes. Every week that you can go to the New York stock exchange and you can punch in a mobile oils ticker symbol and you will see what their monthly and, and, and quarterly revenue is. So you can see who's really making money. But I understand what you're saying. I'm not, I'm not really discussing or want to put too much attention on what the public or these people think of, of, of the movie industry as being rich and wealthy and stuff. I just want to break it down to the very simple. Uh, uh, uh, uh, Adam that at the end of the day, if that production did not go to Louisiana, Louisiana does not have the tax revenue that they're blaming that production company of losing by giving them a credit. They just wouldn't have it. It's completely ridiculous. Well, big up to the movie industry and big up to tax credits and more of them. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Before you go, before you go, Cecil Beal, Cecil Beal demented. Let me ask you a question. Okay. Let me just, let me just tell you something. Let me just tell you something that you, that you probably didn't, didn't, didn't make up that didn't, uh, add that, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of productions say, fuck it. You know, especially West coast productions in California, they say, you know what? We're going to go to Canada now. Guess who wins there? Okay. So now you're taking American jobs out of the United States. You're going to fucking Canada and you're paying fucking employees in Canada. They got to pay. They got to pay Canada taxes, you know, uh, uh, employment taxes. Uh, the, the local, uh, dry cleaner in Canada is going to make some money. The hotels in Canada are going to make some money. The whole thing is ridiculous. It's like the, the argument that, that, uh, uh, giving a tax credit and a tax incentive to a production company, uh, and the state is losing tax revenue is, is completely ridiculous argument. It's a ridiculous argument. And that's basically what we're saying here in the Nasori's public radio show today. Okay. So thank you for calling and, uh, I'll give you a big up cause I know you called and you know, you want to hear a big up. Big up your movie producing. Big up your money spending. Big up your chitlin' chichiwawa eating in Louisiana. Big pork. Big up eating. Movie production. Yeah. Thanks for calling. Wow. She was angry. She was, she fucking, she, she, she was fucking, she was fucking hitting me boy with numbers and shit. Yeah. Wanting us to be all accurate and stuff. Yeah. Like real percentages. Let me tell you something. I do research. Okay. Most of my listeners don't even know what the difference between $40 million and 40 cents is. Okay. Let me just, it's all, they're all. They're all figuring it out. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. It's all, they're all, they're all figures that mean nothing. They haven't left their house in about two weeks. Anyway, so, but she's right. She's definitely right. The. Just make it easier to make movies, man. No, no, she's right. It does make it, it does make it a difficult, it makes it difficult for companies, production companies, for instance, to shoot in California. Yeah. I mean, you're not making it easier for them in New York. Like they, both of these states had tax credits and tax incentives, and then they did away with them because of politicians like, and, and, and, and groups like these people saying, oh, that's not beneficial to us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, that's how you lose business by, by doing this bullshit. It's ridiculous. They just embraced it and found a way to make it work for them because it's not going any, it's not going, it's not, I mean, it's going away. It's, it's not that it's not going anywhere. It is going somewhere. It's going to Canada. And, and they're not complaining about it. Canada? Yeah. Oh no. They're not complaining about it. No, you, you, you go to Canada, you know, you go to Canada, you do a job in Canada. You have to pay Canadian taxes. Okay. Unless you get a waiver. The whole process. Let me tell you something. It's easier to get a sex change operation in Alabama than getting your fucking tax money back from Canada. Okay. Get your tax money. Then you got to get a tax lawyer. You got to fill out paperwork. That'll make, that'll make you feel like. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. I wish I learned Spanish in fifth grade. This is, the whole thing is ridiculous. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, and, and, and just, just, you know, the, the, the advantage, make it easier for films to shoot in America, in your fucking state. You know, call your congressman, call your congressman in California, in New York, find out who's making these preposterous accusations and tell them to fucking, we need jobs in America. You need, you know. You're saying it's beneficial to the state. When a movie like, uh, the Wolf of Wall Street goes to New York to shoot, you bet your ass that for those 30 days, granted it's 30 days, whatever the hell, 45 days, they're hiring extras. Like you said earlier, they're hiring catering. There's, there's TV shows that are going in New York. Most of the, most of the skilled, you know, tradesmen, camera operator, they're already working. All right. All right. So now where are you going to get people to come in? Unless Martin brings them in. They're going to come in there. You're going to get just the, the, the, the, the above the line. He's going to bring, he's going to bring in his standard crew. Right. But those are, yeah, but those are above the line. You need some grips, gaffers, electric, you know, all that. Hair and makeup. You need locations managers. You need. Those people are going to be locals. Exactly. And they're going to spend a lot of money. Yeah. They're going to spend a lot of money. You want to, they're going to get paid money. They're going to get paid money. And they're going to use that money in that state. And when they get paid money, when they get paid money, they got to pay taxes. That stimulates the economy. They pay taxes on the paid money. Right. Anyway, what's interesting, what's interesting about this, what's interesting about this is that this article then goes on to say, or make a reference to another point that I was a little bit unaware of, but you were apparently, you had mentioned to me that you read an article. I did read an article back on USA Today. It was just sitting there. So basically, so basically these, these tax incentives and these tax credits are only good. Again, remember in the beginning of this conversation, if you remember, I said, they're only good against tax liability. So in other words, if you owe New York state taxes for whatever, selling or whatever, you can't use it for your federal or your California. It's got to be used in that state. For the state that's giving you the tax credit. But if you can't use that tax credit because you don't owe, you don't have a liability, they broker these tax credits. Which is amazing because in essence, basically, you're not going to get tax credit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, so. Somebody from Enron discovered how to do this because they. But it's interesting. It's interesting. And, and I'll say it's not unlike banks and what they do legally with mortgages. Right. They buy mortgages. They give you like. Take this off my hands for a reduced rate. Well, direct lenders, right? Like you get to some of these mortgage companies, mortgage brokers. What they do is they'll sell you an interest, a mortgage with a certain interest rate. They'll accumulate like, you know. 50 or 60 or 100 of them. They'll go to Wells Fargo. They'll sell them all to them in one lump sum for the rate that they're giving you is like a little higher than what they're going to get, what they're going to have to pay to get their mortgages sold. If you know what I'm talking about, they're going to make a point 1 or 2% off of your fucking mortgage in cash right off the bat from the bank. You see what I'm saying? So that's what these guys are doing. They're basically taking a tax credit, a certificate, a voucher per se, and they're letting somebody... They're selling it to locals. Right. So let's say for argument's sake... Local rich people. Let's say for argument's sake it was $30,000 that the tax break is going to come in. So a local business may take advantage of that by giving the production $25,000 up front. So they're paying $5,000 for the 30%. Oh, they're paying $25,000. And then 1% gets scooped up by the broker and then a couple of other fees that go to the state, I'm sure. Or taxes, whatever. And then that business, that local business gets to write off $25,000 off of their... You know, using that voucher, it's like, bam. You know, I'm like, oh, I got to do my taxes. Oh, and by the way, I got this get out of jail free card for 25 grand. Right. And the production winds up getting $25,000 up front. To go, yeah, cash. Cash. Cash money in hand to go towards... Cash. Which will get taxed, which will be taxed as they spend that. Well, yeah. It'll get taxed. But I just find that very interesting. I mean, who knew? That, you know, where there's money to be made. Again, so if I'm a mortgage broker, I get all these mortgages, 100 mortgages that... And I sell them to you at 3.1%, right? They're going to get from the bank. They're going to get them at what? 2.1%? They're going to sell them to the bank at 2.1%? And they're going to keep... I'm not 100%. I'm not 100% sure on that, but I think what they do is they base it on the amount of money that's projected that they're going to get from the maturity of the loan. Well, not the maturity, because... No, by the time the loan is over, because that's what its real value is. If it's at four and an eighth... No, no, no, no, no, not the maturity. What they're going to get in the first few years, because that's what you make the... That's what the bank or the lender makes the most money. Not, not, not... Yes, and the maturity... If you sell... Say you buy a house for $200,000, right? Right. And it's at a certain percentage, the bank could hold onto that for the remainder of that, and they're going to make, you know, a shit... They'll make the money on the interest over the whole course. But see, they're going to sell it at a certain point. All the money is made on the interest, but the majority of the interest that you're making on a mortgage is in the first 10 years. Right, okay. Yeah, so you're selling that... So you're buying it, selling it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's the same principle that I'm trying to draw. Yeah. You know, it's just an interesting concept that... That the mortgage... I really think that's what these fucking people... They're selling numbers. Yeah, but I think that's what these people are upset about. They're upset because they're, you know, selling, you know, a credit, even though that's not what the article says, you know? The article is basically saying that it's not cost effective for the state government to do it, which is... Well, because that full $30,000... Say they only take a part of that $30,000, you know, say they have... You know, say they owe less than $30,000 or whatever, you know, that production owes less than that in that state. In taxes, you mean. In taxes. Their tax liability is less than $30,000. If they sell that $30,000 to somebody who will use the full pop, then they're going to suck that whole thing dry. Right. You know, so it just depends. That's why there's a reason why the production is buying that tax credit. There's nothing wrong with it. No, there's nothing. Legally, they can do it, but the problem is... There's nothing wrong with it. ...is that if they cash in on the full $30,000, that full amount gets taken, you know, that's $30,000 of a tax credit, whereas that company would have had to pay taxes anyway if they had not had that. Listen, listen. At the end of the day, man, at the end of the day, a film production is creating jobs. You want to argue and it's creating tax revenue, whether it's... I'm not arguing. I'm just saying. No, no, no. I know you're not. I'm just saying. It's creating tax revenue, whether it's not what the state politicians think that it should be contributing, who knows, but it's damn sure contributing... ...contributing more than what they had from them had they not been there in the first place, the production. And that's all you got to look at. It's not costing the state anything. It's not like the state... For instance, it's not like... Here's a perfect example. It's not like you fucking subsidizing Walmart or McDonald's where they're paying minimum wage. Their employees are getting part-time hours so that they qualify for welfare and Medicare. So guess who's really paying for those guys? It's not the same model, right? It's not the same model, right? No, it's not the same model. What I think... Look, dude, it's so watered down and convoluted and very difficult to track all of that stuff too. If you get a production coming in there and filming in Louisiana and they give you a certain tax break and all that, how are you going to track all of the revenue and taxes of all the people that were involved in that production buying things and all of that? You have to have a film budget and you have to have... A final cost analysis. It's what you have to have. You have to have a... But then they're saying, you know, okay... That's not... Then is that production using all of the local services and then they're using local people and then the local people that they're using... That is all on paper. Are they spending money on all that? That's all on paper. And are they... You know, are local businesses... Say this business buys that $30,000 thing. A&W Rupia buys the $30,000... Right. The $30,000... A credit voucher from Paramount. So they get a credit voucher for $30,000 from Paramount. Right. Did Paramount spend that much? Would that... Would A&W have spent... Would they have... Would they... If they didn't have that $30,000 voucher, $30,000 voucher... They would owe $30,000 to the state in tax. They wouldn't owe $30,000, but they... You know, because it's a breakdown. No, they would. No, they would. They'd owe the equivalent of that somehow thereabouts. Maybe that's the only argument that these people could have. You know what I mean? But, yeah. Anyway, we'll revisit this again. We'll... We'll... I mean, to quantify that is just amazing that there's actually people sitting around in their underwear crunching all of these numbers. Well, there are. I mean, you can't leave the house for that. Who does this? I guess... I don't know. You've got a room full of rainmans counting toothpicks in Louisiana. Dude, when you do a film production, it doesn't matter. You have to have everything accounted for. That's it. So you can have all of that stuff on paper, but then there's other stuff that they're saying. There are other things, you know, that they're saying brings in more revenue. The people actually getting paid and spending it in local businesses, not just the production company. Yeah. You know? It's... It's... It's... Let's talk about the movies. Yeah, let's talk about the movies, man. Fuck that. This is too difficult of a topic. It's numbers for us. No, it's an interesting topic. It is an interesting topic. Anyway, the point is... The point is that... That there was some amazing, amazing films this year. Yeah. In the Academy Awards. Amazing films. They're nominated. They're nominated for Academy Awards. There were a lot of up movies. Yeah, yeah. I mean, very, very happy. Yep. Amazing. Amazing. So you had American Hustle, which... It was a... It was a... You know, I love those, you know, 70s-esks, you know, amazing costume design. Mm-hmm. It's a fun time, man. It is. It's always a fun time. It's a fun time to watch. It's a fun time. Music is great. Yeah. Yeah. And they got away with a lot of shit. They were hustling in the 70s, man. There were people just going, doing crazy shit in the 70s, you know, all over the place. Yeah. You know? Well, we're talking about... We're talking about... People were getting a little wiser, but, you know, but forensic science hadn't caught up to them all the way 100%. Now you can't... It's hard now to be a hustler, you know? You can't get away with shit. Back then, you could get away with fake IDs and fake accents and, you know, renting something in somebody else's name and all that shit. Now it's a little more difficult. There's people that still do it, and it's amazing that they get away with it, but shit. Yeah. Well, it's about, you know, swindling. It's about setting somebody up, you know what I mean? And framing, you know, another dude. The cross... You know, the... Cross... Carmine Polito, the governor of... Or congressman of New Jersey at the time in the 70s. Mm-hmm. FBI agent Richard DeMasso. Who was... Who was trying to... You know, it's always these FBI guys that are trying to, you know, make a name for themselves at the expense of somebody else, and they won't stop at any... You know, they won't stop at anything to get their man, quote unquote. Oh, man. Same thing in Dallas Buyers Club. The FDA guy. Cutting down the... Exactly. You know? Just because they, you know... Exactly. Well, that's a great movie. That's based on true events, you know? In the 80s, it's about, obviously, AIDS, but also the lackadaisical attitude that our government had about finding a cure for AIDS, and how the numbers in people with AIDS kept growing and growing and growing. Mm-hmm. And the people who were affected by this, the homosexual community of the United States of America, they were up in arms, you know, demanding... They had nothing to lose. They were dying. Nothing. Demanding that the Food and Drug Administration would fucking give them something. You know, that's organizations like ACT UP, started in New York City, and protests, and people getting arrested. And through those movements that these people did, change happened. You know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Food and Drug Administration was forced to find cocktails, drug cocktails, that would be closer to at least prolonging the lives of these people who were otherwise just dropping like flies. And, yeah. So, what's interesting about this movie is that the dude, the guy who plays Matthew McConaughey's character, he's a cowboy. He's a bull rider. And he's not gay. Right. And he gets AIDS. And he, you know, he gets HIV. Excuse me. And he's in an old, you know, Alabama, bigoted, homophobic community. You know what I mean? So, he's ousted. But the guy finds a way that he could import some of these drugs from Mexico that the Food and Drug Administration has not approved. And, again, the homosexual community is like, I'll buy it. I'll try it. Fuck it. Anything. We need to find something. And he found the loophole by making it a drug club. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.! Right. Right. Right. As opposed... Right. ...to selling them individually. Right. You join my club, I'll give you this shit for free. Right. Right. Exactly. An interesting thing in that movie is what, to me, summed it all up is when he went before the judge and him against the FDA where he lost, but the judge said pretty much had to take, legally had to take the side of the FDA, but told them that, you know, that he doesn't agree with their practices, essentially. You know? You know? He's like, although this is... I don't understand the logic in it or whatever, you know, however exactly he said it, that's really, it's just how fucked up that time was because they're going by the law, but there's nothing that they can do about it. Right. You know, because they're going by the law, but it doesn't make any sense and they couldn't pass, you know, the laws fast enough. Right. No. And there are people dying because of it. There's too much red tape. There's so much bullshit that goes on. Going back to the topic of what we just started with, you know, there's, you know, you know, you're a congressman, politicians. All these guys jerking each other off to, you know, cock block change, cock block things that, you know, are good, you know, for the people. Things that are bad for the people, they look away and they go, oh, no, no, no, we can't do that because it hasn't passed, you know, these laws. It's a whole... It's a racket. It's a racket. Anything that's bad for you that's easy... You can get it. That makes it easy. Yeah. Anything that's bad for you and it makes producing food easier. Yeah. Well, that's another topic. Exactly. So, Dallas Buyers Club, very interesting because that's a very interesting model, you know, a club, right? Yeah. So, there's a lot of clubs that are private membership clubs. So, it's illegal to sell alcohol after 4 a.m. But if you come to my house, right, and there's only like a 100 member, you know, cap and you all pay a monthly membership, you can drink all fucking night at my house. I'm not charging you money. Right. You see what I'm saying? It's a membership. It's a membership. You come into my house. It's an interesting model. Of course, since then, a lot of laws have been passed, blah, blah, blah. Captain Phillips. Amazing, bro. Amazing film about the Somali pirate situation that's going on with cargo ships that have to go through, you know, the waters of Somalia. And these people, they have nothing. Again, nothing. They don't give a shit. They don't give a shit. They're willing to jump on a fucking boat and shoot everybody. They take whatever they think can be sold in the black market. What's their life, you know? Exactly. They got to do it or they got killed by their bosses. Well, yeah. Well, then there's a whole, there's mob bosses that make them do it in the whole nine yards. But Tom Hanks, brilliant. Tom Hanks. Yeah. That guy is unbelievable. He is un-fucking-believable. You know what I mean? I met Tom last week. I was at an event at a Director's Guild of America event. And I... You know what, man? I got to say, I got to say Tom Hanks is just straight up, you know, amazing guy. Big up! Got to give a big up to Tom Hanks! Fucking Tom Hanks, it's like, delves him. He just like jumps fucking head first in any role. That last, you know, the last part of that movie was unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah. So it's based on a... It's a true story. My man goes through all sorts of shit after they capture his boat. He basically says, don't kill my people, come there, whatever. I'm not going to give the movie away. A lot of people haven't seen the movie, but... Yeah, but it was... It's brilliant. Hopefully they're paying attention to the news because I read the article when it happened and they had a breakdown of what SEAL Team 6 actually had to do. Dude. Dude, they're on three different boats in the ocean having to line up the shot with three different targets in these tiny little fucking portals. Yo, yo. You know, with... And not him. Hit. The whole reason why they're doing this is to not kill the guys. Right. Not kill Captain Phillips. They had to do it in one shot too. Right, right, right, right. It was just... It was brilliant. To bring that alive because when I was reading that... It was brilliant. ...and looking at the diagram... Just so you get an idea. So amazing. The lifeboat looks like the yellow submarine and the Beatles thing is just a capsule. Yeah. And they got three or four psychotic Somali pirates, which basically they're young... Three, right? Yeah. They're young, skinny ass... ...mild-nourished, you know, African... I looked at some of the pictures of, you know, the guy who lived. The guy who they took on board was a Muzi. You mean one of the Somali guys? The Somali guy that they took on board. They tricked him into saying that the boss is going to be on the warship and they're going to work a deal. Oh, right, right, right. Man, they did such a good job in portraying, you know, his likeness in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His wife looked a little bit better looking than the real actor, to be honest with you. Well, yeah. Yeah. He was smiling, having a good old time on that boat. Well, he couldn't afford dental insurance, the actor. And then the real guy couldn't act, so you have a dilemma. Well, the real guy's doing 33 years in fucking prison. So what do you do? What do you do? You give a fucking tax incentive to the production so that it can make the movie. That's what you do. They got the grant. They got a $300,000 grant. They said, we'd love for you to make a movie. Here's some fucking money, make a movie. It's part of the arts, isn't it? Dude, every state should be giving money away to make fucking movies. Okay, listen. They should. Listen, real quick. Wolf of Wall Street. Three-hour jerk-off, coke-sniffing, vagina-licking, Lamborghini-smashing fucking fest. Three hours. If you want to do that, God bless. Okay? I lived the 80s. I was myself. I was like, I didn't understand what the hell I was doing. But don't you hate movies that, you know, you're in them, but now you've invested an hour in it, so you got to go with the whole fucking thing? But it's the same shit. It sounds like, you know. It was ridiculous. It sounds like, I don't know, a weekend at Justin Bieber's. But, yeah. But based on this. I didn't see this. I didn't see it. Oh, you didn't see it. No, I didn't see that one. Well, it's based on a true story. Right. And the fucked up thing about this guy is that. Is that he winds up doing time, and then he's out. And he's living like a fucking, you know, like a millionaire again. Well, yeah. That's the idea. Do your time. It's just like the mafia, man. Yeah. You do your shit. Then you go in. You do your time for a couple years. You come out. You're a made man. You know? You don't rat on anybody. You keep the money hidden. It's, dude. It's just. It's just another legal mafia. Jordan. Jordan Belfort is the guy's name. Mm-hmm. It's unbelievable. So, basically, you know, it's almost like, let's make a movie about Bernie Madoff, except in real life, let's let him out. Right. You know, let's just let him out. Let him do his thing. Anyway, that's enough about that. Nebraska. You didn't see Nebraska. I'm just going to. I'm just going to. Touch on that. Just touch on it. You did see 12 Years a Slave. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll kind of spend a good portion of the rest of the show on 12 Years a Slave. But Nebraska. You have Bruce Dern, who plays, I think the guy's like 75 years old. Mm-hmm. He has one of these publisher's clearinghouse, you've won a million dollar things. And he thinks that if he, you know, goes to collect the ticket, that he's going to win a million dollars. Mm-hmm. And he's walking and walking, and they find him, you know, on the highway. Anyway, long story short, Bruce Dern is fucking amazing. Bruce Dern is brilliant. It's a story, June Squibb is amazing, his wife. They're all a great cast. You know, the one thing about most of these movies, whether you like them or not, the casting is amazing. The production values are amazing. You know? So, basically, Bruce Dern, he also, he's an alcoholic. But it's really, it's a story about a son and a father. He wants to connect with his father. I'm not going to get into much of it. Because I think it's worth watching. It's a simple movie. It's a very simple movie. Not very complicated. The story maybe has been told many, many times. It's done in black and white. Which is, if you love black and white, then... Love it. I love black and white. From the moment I saw, like, the first opening sequence, I was like, fuck. Got to watch it. And it delivered. And it delivered. So, yeah. So, that's that. But, 12 Years a Slave. 12 Years a Slave. Um, unbelievable film. And I say unbelievable. It was painfully unbelievable to watch. It was, it was unreal. It was unreal. Uh, I had a, I had a hard time. I had a hard time with that movie. Watching, watching, uh... Me too. My white guilt was, like, in the red. I was, I was feeling not good. You were feeling, you were feeling... Yeah. Well, anyway, the movie's directed by Steve McQueen. It's... It's, uh, it's... Let me see. I had a damn page over here on the gentleman. Solomon Northrup is the guy that, uh, that is, uh, portrayed in the movie. Who was a freed slave, um, in the 1800s in New York. He was abducted and taken to the South and sold. Okay? Fucking sold. And I didn't, I wasn't even aware that they did this, that they did this type of shit. But, but doesn't, doesn't surprise me. Why would they go through the trouble of doing that? I mean, was there, like, a, you know? Because in order, because in order to sell a slave, you'd have to own a slave. So if you got two, you know, fucking crooked-minded white guys who don't have any money, right? You can just go up and fucking, you know, uh, uh, entice a slave or entice a black man in New York who's freed, right? Once you get him down South, he's not freed. Right. Right? You can go in there and say, I own this man and sell it. So you just made some money at the expense of somebody's life. That's why. You know what I mean? It's fucked up. Right. It's like stealing, you know, 18, you know, two pounds of gold and fucking going to Switzerland and selling it. That's why. That's simple. If he, if he could have just met Brad Pitt, like, like a six months or a year, you know, into the ordeal, he could have knocked out, like, you know, it could have been like two years of slavery. Well, well, well, you can't. You can't get into all that because then you wrote him a letter. Yeah, but you can't get into all that because you're going to give the movie away. So, so anyway, this guy, uh, Chiwetel Ejiofor is the protagonist. He plays a Solomon Northrup. And by the way, this movie is based on a book, right? It's Steve McQueen, the director, uh, read, right? A couple of years ago. This book was written in like 1850 something by, uh, uh, Solomon Northrup. Mm-hmm. Based on his experiences as a captured freed man and sold as a slave. And, and, and apparently this book, uh, uh, disappeared and then it was republished and, and, and, and. He disappeared. Well, it's. They don't know where he died or when he died. It's, it's, it's, it's just unbelievable. Anyway, uh, um, um, great cast. Michael Fassbender, Lupito Nyong'o, uh, plays, uh, fuck. She's another, another slave. Brad Pitt's in it. Brad Pitt helped produce. I believe. Right. Um, anyway, um, I just want to say there's a scene in this movie. It's probably the most uncomfortable scene I've ever seen in a movie in my life where they try to hang Solomon. Oh yeah. Somebody comes and releases or gets rid of the guys who were trying to hang him, but he still has the noose around his head. Cause he's their way. He said, you got to wait. For your master to come and let you go. There's about an eighth of an inch between his toe, his big toe and the ground. Yeah. So my man is squirming while he's got the noose around his head and his hands are tied behind his back. Okay. And I believe the fucking scene is about 15 minutes long. I'm looking at this man. I'm like, I need to go kill a white guy. I swear to God. I was like, I'm going to fucking kill some white motherfuckers tonight. That's, that's all I can feel. Uh, that, that's all I can say. We're going to wrap this shit up. I want to. I want to give a big up. I want to give a big up to all the, uh, Oscar nominated films. You know what? You guys did the film. Fuck all these places that don't want to give you a tax incentive or a tax credit. Call your senators, call your congressmen. Let them know that they got to do something. Cause you got to keep filming TV production in America, in America, in our own States. Okay. Don't believe the hype. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Don't believe it. Yeah. So I want to thank, I want to thank, uh, uh, the Cecil Beale, Cecil Beale demented that called us earlier. And I want to, I want to thank all my listeners and I want to, uh, just give a prop in the stories, public radio, go to iTunes, subscribe to the shit. Come on to skid row studios.com. Check out all the other shows. Uh, uh, V ginger Lynn, Google her. She just started. She just started a show here Monday through Friday from four to five. Is it Jeremy? Four to six, two hours. On Monday. So if you're listening to live February 3rd from 4pm to 6pm, Monday through Friday, check that shit out. She's a very interesting woman. Uh, uh, classic, uh, you know, old school porn star, but there's all sorts of shows here. Go to skid row studios.com. Check out the other shows. This is fucking, this is, this is crazy. Internet revolution, man. Radio for the motherfucking people. You know what I'm saying? Shit is free. This shit is free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. Free. See ya.