Sex vs. BDSM debate, dungeon hopping plans, and personal kink experiences

fuck my life oh hey that's the first thing i said hello hi welcome to uh skid row studios and to uh intellectual kink what's the name of our show i haven't done it a couple weeks so i forgot what we do here well welcome back to us who are you uh i am insidious muse i'm glad you didn't forget that might have and who are you i'm service slut i'm fairly sleep deprived as of late i've had this insomnia thing is there's nothing specifically preventing me from going to sleep at night for just me and so it's like oh i look and i'm like fuck it's three i should go to sleep i have to get up in three hours so that's just been kind of my uh my groove lately i'm feeling you you're feeling me feeling you how's it going it's going it's hot as hell oh and i mean it's actually cooler in the studio than i expected which is kind of nice it's cooler in here than it is outside i'll tell you that yeah it's like you know the fiery pits of hell in los angeles which is nothing new but you know it's just unpleasant and and to point this out to all of the people that are not from la this is very typical la which is that if it is not somewhere between 72 and 78 we bitch below 72 is too cold and people go 72 no seriously below 72 is a little chilly oh i should grab a sweater it's a little chilly above 78 so 79 and higher is like whoa what's going on and it's 90 right now so it's completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely wise but otherwise. How's life for you? I had sex today so it's actually pretty good. That was unclear from our dinner. I suspected it and I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure and I was like man she's in a really good mood. What happened? Now I know. So the funny thing is I even posted on my vanilla Facebook like you know I'm such a simpleton. It takes the easiest things just to put me immediately in a great mood. I saw that and I thought oh maybe she saw like a bird or like she you know something itty bitty. No. No. I'm the simpleton. Things like that make me happy for two seconds. Sex makes me happy for the rest of the day. God damn it. Well now we know how you need to start the day. Every day all the time. It's true. It's true. Anyway so I'm good and then I mean so let me walk you through my day which was a really really tough day for me. So you know like I woke up and then the power went out when I was in the middle of the shower which is kind of awkward but I was still pretty happy and then I went and I got an hour long massage and an hour long facial and then I had sex. But the price of which is I had to go A to the west side and B I had to sit in traffic from the west side to downtown which sucked. Oh no no no and then I treated you to a very nice dinner. It was a very nice dinner. That burger was fantastic. Right. Yes. So wow. And then we got cigarettes. So hard. And then yes. Such a hard life. It's man. It's challenging. You know I I I compare that to my day of you know getting you know handed two reports that oh the deadline is next week and I have to do all this like data analysis and then oh wait you know somebody's you know things broke and then I had to fix them and then all of this stuff and then you know maybe taking like a 30 minute lunch and then like you know kind of just struggling through the day. No. Essentially you're Cinderella and I'm the wicked stepmother. No. Got it. Got it. I should let my hair go gray so I can have that little gray streak that she has. I'm gonna do that. Can I be I want to be Maleficent though. She's really the one that I love. I'm just saying. Anyway. But you know on the topic of sex. On the topic of sex. So I was hanging out with a friend of ours. A kinky friend of ours whom I love. And we both love very much. As she's been on the show. Yes. And we're probably gonna have her on next week because we're gonna talk about nipple play next week with video. With video. Everybody can play with their nipples. Now is the interactive component. Take your fingers pinch your nipples. That's not now. That's next week. Yeah. Anyway. So we were like chatting. And I don't know what the why the subject came up. But the subject came up with sex and BDSM. And how some people and have such diametrically opposed opinions of how sex fits into BDSM. And some people are flat out offended by how sex fits into BDSM. Yeah. You know and it's interesting. It's just it was one of those things where I was like yeah. I think that this is really an interesting topic. To discuss. Because I mean we all have our own opinions. We all have our own experiences. And a lot of people talk about how BDSM is an extension of sex. Once you've kind of exhausted all of the sexual things that you can do. You go to more adventurous things which often lead you to BDSM. And I could totally see that. And that I would probably say is very typical within the confines of male het femme sub relationship. Because those are sticking to more of kind of the societal expectations and roles. Kind of the way a female should be subservient or should be submissive to the male in the relationship. Right. Which I think that that makes sense because a lot of the sex that we see really is kind of enforcing that dynamic. And so I can see how the het male dom community and the femme sub community that submits to het male doms would see well sex and BDSM are intertwined. Right. And they are. There's a lot of sex along with fucking and then there's a lot of like anal as a part of that and face fucking. Those are all kind of components underneath you know what I would call the purview of sex and BDSM. However, that is not the entirety of the BDSM community. No way. And we go to dungeons a lot. Like a lot. Yeah. We do. And like a lot of different ones. Less different ones than we used to. We need to start going to more different ones. Yes. And one of the ones that we go to doesn't they don't allow actual sex and there are some other specific limitations like no mouth to genitals. So we don't see a lot of sex there unless it's a members only party and then they're allowed sex. But there are other ones that do. But it's very very rare. Even in the het male world, it's rare for people to do that publicly. I mean you have to be like a big exhibitionist to do that. Right. Like for example, one time one time at band camp, no. One time we were at one of the dungeons that allows sex and I was I had somebody over a spanking bench. Was it you or was it Katie? I don't know. I know which one. I can't remember. I don't know if it was you or Katie. Spent over a spanking bench and I was spanking and then at a massage table next to us this female dom was being eaten out by her male submissive. Yeah. And I stopped. And looked. And then went to the bottom that I was spanking and said, oh my god so and so is and we all stopped and looked. Everybody stopped and looked. And it's not because we wanted to see her get oral sex from this guy. It was that, wow. What's happening? Oral sex is happening right here in front of us. Let's all watch. I mean it's like who doesn't want to see live porn, right? Right. Oh my god, it's been so long. Right? But the reason is it's just something that we don't see that often. Even though people very often put BDSM under the umbrella of sex. But it's really not necessarily linked. I think there are a lot of sexual acts that can be part of BDSM but that one does not necessarily fall under the umbrella of the other. Yes. Well and here's where it, because it gets a little you know confused and befuddled in there in that most people that are pretty active in BDSM, the things that get them aroused, are not typical sexual acts. Right. For example, the number one thing that would arouse you is to have shackles on your wrists, your ankles, your neck and to be led through a public square naked to be auctioned off as a slave. Totally. This is an arousing thought. Completely logical. This would make you wet and be like oh my god, this is I'm so excited. Most people that don't find that kind of humiliation in BDSM, enticing would be like, like me, be like uh, no. Not gonna happen. Sounds like hell. This sounds like the worst possible experience of my life, you know. Unless I'm leading the chain, which, right. Could be the best possible experience of your life. Right. But the point is that those things can get us aroused but it's not specifically sexual and this is where I think it gets a little convoluted as well. I can be aroused by this but it doesn't mean I'm gonna want to go out and fuck everything. I'm aroused. It's like there's a different kind of arousal. It's almost like it's it's a mental arousal not just a physical arousal if that makes sense. Absolutely. It's an enlightened arousal. I'm going to make this a new term. Enlightened arousal. You know, does that, and I think that that makes it a little confusing because do, when we go through scenes and stuff are we both wet in the process? Yes! We are! That's the Hunger Games on my phone. Because of our various roles, you know, I'm doing the top and you're doing the bottom and it's about the dynamic or whatever or even we can watch a scene that's like cutting or even suturing a vagina or, you know, these kinds of things that you wouldn't necessarily think are sexy because it's not trust me, suturing somebody or even needles is not sexy. It's intense. But it takes you to a different plane, a different level and I think that that, you can't look at it under, you're not going to find that shit on Pornhub. You know, that's just, people aren't going to be like ooh, that's just not going to happen. And you'll find that stuff on, you know, like kink.com, etc. and those kinds of sites. However, not everybody's going to look at it and get aroused. A lot of people are going to look at it and be like, ew! That's not, why would you do that, you know? And I think that's where it gets complicated. Am I just, I'm babbling now, aren't I? Now you are. What, huh? Hey, look, we're done. Kidding, we're just starting. And what I don't understand though is it's cool if that's not your thing, that's cool. But to be offended by somebody else having sex, I imagine if somebody having sex like in a dungeon or within the confines of that BDSM, publicly in the BDSM or if that's how they define their relationship. It's just like everybody has their own kinks, but I feel as though some people create this glass box for sex. And everything that's sex goes in the glass box and everything for BDSM can go in the adjacent glass box where they look like they're together. But they're not. You know? They can be acrylic boxes if you want them, if you're scared you're going to break the glass boxes. Totally. Well, here's the thing, is that I think that within the BDSM community, we're very all about, safety. I want to be safe. And I think with sex, you know, there's so many different factors that go into being safe, you know, using protection and, you know, did your partner get tested and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's almost as if though, you know, community has its own special set of social standards and morals that you must abide by. And you would think in a community where, oh, I don't know, shit like people being led by a leash is totally normal. You would think that something like sex would be perfectly fine. But I think that it, I think that sex for anybody, not just in the community, but I think it just, it can touch on very personal things. You know, we all grew up with different notions of what sex was, what sex was supposed to be, how you were supposed to engage in it, with who and when. And I think that that's something that is ingrained in you so much, even if you are super kinky. I mean, you still have a piece of that. I mean, I grew up Catholic and I am not a practicing Catholic, but hey, I know what Easter is. I know when it's Ash Wednesday. I know why it's 40 days. I know what you're supposed to do at confession. I know that you're not supposed to go up there and get that really tasty wafer if you haven't done your first communion. And if you haven't confessed. Whatever. But, you know, those things stay with you. And I wonder if sex is kind of like that, where you're brought up a certain way, you have certain views about it, and no matter what other factors change, you kind of still have a little bit of that. Do you know what I mean? No, that seems incredibly valid. That makes a lot of sense. And I find that that is sometimes the case with specific acts as well. You know, some, it's interesting, very few female dominants that I know, have sex with their submissives. And some go to the point where they're vehemently opposed to it because they feel that a male submissive penetrating the female is a dominant act on the man's part. Which, I've had this discussion with lots of them. I'm like, if you're telling him to do it, then no. You're still in charge. You know, they're doing everything you want. Even, let's say, in a situation where someone is feeling switchy, if she tells you to top them, she's still dominating you. You're just topping them, you know? And some people have a lot of difficulty with that. But, and I think a lot of it boils down to that kind of, what was the socially acceptable norm when you thought of sex? Some people, it really does have to be within the confines of a loving relationship. I know people that, although they wouldn't necessarily say this, and I actually have discovered this with a lot of men, if they don't feel like they're in love, or that there's a love component, that they feel dirty about sex. And they fabricate the love to a degree, and it's like, you don't love me. Who the fuck are you? You don't love me, whatever. But that's what they need in order to go through with it. And that's what I mean by there are those barriers. And sometimes we create these bridges in order to falsely, or whatever, in order to make us, placate us, so that we can carry on with whatever these acts may or may not be. That was a really interesting sidebar to my original point, which is that there are a lot of, a lot of feminisms don't have sex with their submissives for a variety of reasons. Number one, they feel that it violates kind of the, the power exchange of the relationship. Number two, maybe they just aren't interested in having sex with their submissive. Number three, maybe their submissive has a small penis and they don't understand that either. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of different, different varieties, different things that go into that. And so, I think that's a really important part of how we can get into those decisions. Let me pick your brain then. Pick away. So, what you've said seems to be more rooted in heterosexual DS relationships. What do you say about same, we don't have sex. No, but again, there's a lot that goes into that. We have a really long history. Yeah, we do. Really, really long history. And part of that is because of, there was that love thing. And so, you know, it's, it's breaking your heart all the time, believe it or not. Even when we fight, I'm still worried about it. So, those are part of the reasons why it's okay. So, that's off the table, which is fine. You know, even when I'm like, hey, I really want some girl sex. I got a girl I can have sex with, but it's like, well, the feeling will pass. It'll come back another time or I could just watch some fantastic lesbian porn, which I don't really like actually. I'd rather watch May Gale porn, gay male porn. I don't know. I'm really confused right now. Why? Because you just threw a lot of knowledge at me. Oh. A lot of insight that I was not aware of. Oh, well then. That was weird. Why? Because I wasn't aware of that. And so, I'm like, ah, information. I need to do something. My brain needs to do something with that. I told you that. Not that last part, no. That I watch porn? No, no, the part before. Well, that I watch porn, this isn't a shocker. The part before that. I probably have a couple PornHub tabs open on my Chrome browser. My phone right now. No, the part before that. Oh. Yeah. I told you that. No, no, no. I have never been under any impression that you would have ever wanted to have sex with me, so. Oh, no, well. That's new information. Then I've done what I set out to do, which was to shield you originally, and tell them right now on this show, to shield you so that it wasn't one of those things that you added to your life. And to the complexity of your emotional kind of maelstrom. You know what I'm saying? I don't, not. Tempest? No. Do I need a different word for maelstrom? Just look. Storm? Don't know what's happening right now. Neither do I now. I feel like this is just a weird show. No, no, no, no, no. It's not weird show. Let's just like, get past that. Me, delayed reaction. This will not hit me until days later. All right. Awesome. Awesome. No, and it's interesting. So I would love to see more sex in the dungeons and stuff. Me too. It's number one. Who doesn't like to watch sex? I love watching sex. I don't, even bad sex. We should watch you have sex. Oh, I'd love to watch her have sex. Hell yeah. She'd be awesome. And her boyfriend? Oh my God. Awesome. She, you know what would be like during the show, you could just bend over to the console, and we can watch you. That would be awesome. Yes! And then we can like give a play by play and nobody could see it. It's just us. I know. I'll tell him and see what he thinks about it. Dude! Yes! We like this idea. Nothing gets us more excited than watching people fuck. I don't know what it is about it. For sure. I mean like swingers parties, like we'll go and we'll just watch. And then we'll go out to like the main chatting area. We're like, did you see her do that thing? I was highly impressed. And did you see that? Did you see what he has going on? That was fun. And we're like totally like the sports center of sex. Sports center. Afterwards. It's awesome. But that's, I mean, you know, that is really cool to watch people have sex. I wish we had like those monitors where like you could, you know, use that pen and then like you draw and like, you know. Just stick with that play. And right there, we have full penetration. Full penetration. Damn it. Somebody needs to make that happen. Right? I'm sure there's the technology with iPads and shit. I'm sure. Oh boy. No, but I would love to watch more sex. I mean, just in general, but like at the dungeon. I mean, and. It's interesting because Grey Dancer and I had a conversation at the crew two years ago. First crew, second crew, whatever. Any one of these crews. Were there only two groups so far? Three groups. They've been three groups now. So it must have been the second group. And we had a conversation and he used the phrase kinky CrossFit. Yeah. And I thought it was a fantastic phrase. And basically what he was saying is, look, you can, you know, have anal sex and smack her and have a cane and caner at the same time if you want to, you know, or do, you know, hair suspension. You can do multiple things at the same time. Safely, you can do these things. But he used the example of if you cane it, watch because it can wrap. And he was doing that one time and it wrapped and hit him. And he's like, ah, and that was like the end of the experience because his cock was like, hey, I don't like this. This is not fun. Let's not be hard anymore. And that's unpleasant in when you're inside someone's ass. I mean, I would imagine I don't have a cock. I mean, I mean, I don't have like, you know, a flesh one. I have lots of cocks, but not like. I have a cock for you. I didn't mean to give you a cock. Okay. You actually have a lot of my cocks. I was looking at my box of cocks today for my for my sex today. And why do you I'm sorry, why do you need a cock for the sex that you had today? I need to know. Oh, I like a dildo in my ass and I'm being fucked. Jesus, I am learning so many things about you. Right? Jenny's with me. It's awesome. So and I was looking for, you know, a reasonable size because I haven't had anal sex in a really, really long time. So I had to bring all these cocks that were like, and I had to go with a glass one, which is fine. I mean, because glass dildos. Hello. But yeah, so but you do actually have some of my cocks, I think, in your car. So I'm going to go with this one. Are you are you are you completely and totally frozen? Well, I mean, you don't usually tell me like disclose things about yourself to me. So this is kind of a lot for me to fucking deal with right now. So just excuse the fuck out of me. Well, my apologies for that. So that happened today. It was it was nice. I enjoyed it. I have a field door for you. Didn't you? I mean, is that the same one or is it the same one? I'm never going to use it, so you could get more use out of it than I will. You could. We have someone coming out. That's right. Yeah. I could dress you both up and then you can peg him and you can have a field at the same time. I could. I could. What's what is it? Field? Dough? A field dough field. So a field dough. So imagine a dildo, but the base of it, instead of it being a base, it kind of has like this nub, it curves up. So it's like this and then it goes like that. And so the part that goes like like that, it goes inside of you. And so then it is like as if you are truly fucking someone and feeling the thrust and there's like a little bullet vibrator that's in there. So you're I mean, you're definitely feeling something. That sounds like right. Hello. I got it for a steal, too. I got five bucks. Right. Well, and at a totally vanilla event, vanilla event. Who knew? Who knew? I highly recommend it. What she's because she's going to go around. Do you do you peg? Do you peg your boyfriend? No, you should. You should try it. He doesn't like it. It's a well-documented pleasure center. I say that every single time to every single person that's like, I don't like stuff in my butt and I go, it's a well-documented pleasure center. And nobody has anything to say in response to that. They're like, oh, well, there you go. I agree. I tell him that, too. But I don't know. He just maybe he doesn't he hasn't had something that feels good. His G spot is up there. So, you know, that's what I like to tell men. Your G spot is there. Have you experienced the G spot? And I said, look, and this is this is often where I start. I'm total sidebar here. It's often where I start like you got to finger up your ass during a blowjob. No, that's the way you start, you know, because you're giving them positive reinforcement. The blowjob feels good. Just try to finger and then, oh, you know, I'm saying. Sure, sure. There you go. Pro tip there. Not that I'm a pro, but no, I don't know where that came from. Yeah, no. So additionally, one of the things that like sex and BDSM, sometimes I really I like giving blowjobs for a couple of reasons. Number one, I worked really hard to give good blowjobs. It's like something I really worked on. It was a process. Yeah, I believe you. And when you you know, when you don't use it, you lose it kind of thing. And so I'm like, hey, if I don't suck a cock, maybe I'm just going to be like, oh, my God, like it's my French, like I've lost my French somehow. So I'm not going to suck a submissives cock unless it's in chastity, which is just awesome because it's mean and cruel and I love it. But other than that, you know, I'm not going to do that. Why? Why? Why would I do that? So I don't. So you know what I'm saying? I see what you're saying. And usually their penises are small. Sure. It's true. No, no, no. I get that. It works when they like humiliation because I can go there. If they don't like humiliation, this is a problem. Because then what do I say? Oh, yes. Look at that mighty sword. Dagger, maybe. Dagger. Dagger. Teeny tiny throwing knives. I'm sorry. I just need to stop now. Which is why I love Logan. Because I can make fun of him nonstop. And it's okay. And it's okay. It's okay. Interestingly enough, there are some things like for me personally that I wouldn't necessarily think are sexual. But I think that the person to whom I'm doing it thinks that it is. For example. No, let me. I'm sorry. Let me interrupt. Yes, by all means. So then that begs the question. If it's not sexual for both people, is it then really truly a sexual act? I think that it is sexual to the person to whom it is sexual. And it is not sexual to the person to whom it is not sexual. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah. I don't necessarily. I mean, you have two people having a shared experience. It's not going to be the same experience for both of them. It truly isn't. Let's all think about sex we've had in the past. And, you know, the next day your partner's like, they don't burp because that's rude. Your partner's like, oh, my God. That was amazing. It was so good. I loved everything. And you're thinking, were you the same thing I was? Because whatever was happening was not good. Like that thing with your lips. What is that? Why do you do that with your tongue? I don't understand any of it. Because it's just a different experience. So that's what I go with. Sometimes conversations like that are with me, you know, because I'm having a great time. And you're like, I don't know what you're saying. You sound like you're on drugs. Yeah. But I'm not. One of these days, though, I want to. I want to be on drugs in this show. That would be awesome. Or awful. I'm not sure. I don't know about that. It would be the Let's Get High show. Anyway. So, oh, for example, when I do, like, anal play with you, it's sexual for you. Or when I'm, you know, for example, there was that one scene and I had you on the desk. And I had the Hitachi. And there was all this stuff going on. And you had orgasms and stuff like that. That was not sexual for me. It wasn't. I assume it was sexual for you. Because you came. But it wasn't sexual for me. Because I was in kind of work mode, for lack of a better term. Because I was working. I wasn't being paid. But, like, I was doing something that I was focused on and working on. It wasn't like, hey, yeah, baby, I'm touching my nipples. And I'm getting all hard. No, that's not. It wasn't like that. Same thing for when I. I'm edging a submissive male. Or when I'm doing prostate milking. Or any of those things. It's not specifically sexual for me. But it is for them. Does that make sense? Is it ever sexual for you? Yes. It is. It's interesting because I feel very strongly that human beings don't go into a single emotion or experience and stay there forever. I feel that we kind of flow in and out of things. So, within the context of a scene or an evening or an experience, there can be moments of sexuality and it can fall out. I think that that's more of how we as human beings operate. So, whereas, I mean, if you're like actually having sex, you're probably going to be ebbing and flowing within the sex vibe. But, like, for that, I mean, because I'm topping, because I'm in control and I have to make sure, I have to look out for safety. I have to look out for people around. There's so much that I have to be aware of all the time. I don't ever really get to let go like I do when I'm just having sex. When I'm just having sex, it's just me and one other person. And it's cool. We're all going to do it. But when I'm in a confines of doing something that has potential danger issues, I'm always kind of aware of those things. So, it pulls me out of any of those kind of sexual experiences often. So, and that might be a contributing factor for why some people don't put sex along with the BDSM. Right. Yeah. Because, and touching on what I mentioned earlier about that safety component, I mean, you're absolutely right. When you're having sex, it's a very, you know, you can have tunnel vision for the most part, you know. But with everything else, there's just, there is too much going on. There's a lot of different things that can happen. So, I can definitely understand that. Absolutely. And also, kind of that sex in public thing, like sex in the dungeon, et cetera, et cetera. Some people don't perform well. Well, in those experiences. And I can understand that. It's intimidating. You are being watched. And whether you have... And judged. And judged, really, because we're all judging all the time. And we really are. Whatever. You could be positively judging, but you're still judging, you know. And even if you're an exhibitionist, unless you feel completely comfortable with the people that are watching you, with the environment that you're in, you're such a narcissist that you're like, hey, I'm totally, you know, that scene from American Psycho where he's looking at himself in the mirror. You know, and we know those people. But unless you're there, you know, you're going to have all of these other doubts and thoughts in your head and it's going to impact the performance. So, for me, like if I was going to have sex in public, it better be rock star sex. Like seriously, I have fucking reputation to maintain. It's better be rock star sex. If it's not going to be rock star sex, no. Then let's just not do it because, you know, I don't want to confirm. I just want to, you know, knit Afghans, which I don't. Wow. I don't. I don't knit anymore. But, I mean, there's a lot. Again, it goes down to all of the concepts about sex that we were raised with. But then there's all these other things. There's other people's opinions about you and their opinions about sex and their opinions about sex and you, you know, that go into all of these various decision making factors. Right. Which is kind of daunting. Well, I mean, speaking personally, you know, I value sex a lot. I think that it can be something very intimate and doesn't always have to be shared with everybody else, which is honestly for me when people say, yeah, totally, you guys can totally watch us have sex. Like to me, that's like, wow, you trust us that much. That is, that's amazing. I feel flattered, you know, that somebody would be okay with that because I see it as something. Not necessarily sacred, but it's like that ultimate energy exchange, you know. So for me, like, you know, I think about having quote unquote traditional sex at the dungeon and like it would really, it would be a little bit unsettling for me because I would constantly, because I'm not going to subspace. Like I'll be constantly aware of every little sound and people passing by. And all this stuff. It'd be a lot harder for me to just zone out and just be in the sex versus when it's, you know, a scene and, you know, these things are happening. Yeah. Hey, let's go into subspace like that, you know. Because there are mitigating factors that get you there before it becomes a specifically sexual act. Precisely. Because those mitigating factors arouse you, although they're non-traditionally sexual. Right. Right. Yeah. So, my phone's going to die. I don't know. Don't ask me. Too many people texting me. I'm interviewing. Because everybody wants to have the sex with you. Well, I'm interviewing fuck buddies and there's a lot of people texting me. I don't know what to tell you. I'm going to ignore them all though. First world problems. First world problems, totally. Yeah, for sure. It's true. It's true. Yeah, but that's what I got. I mean. Well, so, but you do, well, you haven't had traditional sex in a long time. I mean, I'm not saying that you're not. I'm not saying that you're not. I'm not saying that you're not. I'm not saying that you're not. I'm not saying that you're not. I mean, you did have traditional sex in a long time. But even like the last time you, so last time you had traditional sex was before you entered the community. Do you think that you could have traditional sex? I wouldn't know. I truly don't know because I haven't tried. There's that one. And I feel like I'd be more critical. Of them or of you? Of both them and me. in what way because um I'd be critical of them because I would expect a higher level of communication whereas before I didn't give a fuck I didn't care you know and now it's like wait there's wait there's things we need to discuss will there be dental dams involved or what are you healthy um what has been in your vagina what has been in your mouth um just different things that you know you know years ago naive me would not have thought about asking or even felt comfortable bringing up um so that would that would that definitely makes it so that I would now seek a higher level of I don't know just a higher level I don't I mean certainly some of that could be attributed to BDSM etc but I think that that's actually kind of the evolution actual evolution of kind of our time right now no absolutely expectation that these I mean it's it's no longer even a question about condoms or dental dams or or or test results those are expectations now when you're having sex which it wasn't the case even 10 years ago that wasn't necessarily the case but it's definitely we've gotten a little bit more heightened do you think that it's a combination of those two I mean would because the the safety component I mean that's kind of an expectation I think that we get into a next next generation communication in BDSM where it's about preferences likes dislikes yes and no's and and I'm curious for you I couldn't even tell you what my preferences are okay well that's interesting I mean I couldn't tell you what my preferences are because I don't know how those have changed in this time period I just don't okay um well because you used to always be kind of the sexual alpha correct yes and so that's not your comfort zone that's not what you prefer to be I don't think so I mean I I have again haven't tried it since so I'm not sure I you know it's something that's really great for me I think I would be critical of myself in that I I would because I've had you know certain experiences with you like I and it's not because it's you centric it's that it's the experiences that because if these things have happened because I've seen other things happen because I've seen other people have experiences it kind of creates just you know a preconceived notion of what it should be like and okay so well it sets expectations right and so I I put a lot of pressure on myself just for your performance or for their performance my performance oh I'm way too much of a top because I put expectations of their performance no I I worry about my performance and in all aspects but I I you know that's a really big worry for me and so like I mean now like I think about like fuck I'm kind of scared to have sex because shit I'm like probably really rusty and like it's probably gonna be terrible so um see what I mean about sucking the cock I mean I'm not telling you to suck cock but it's you know as far as you know you gotta keep the skill sharp that's what I'm saying keep the skill sharp yeah we should get you one of them realistic vaginas oh you did not just say that oh that's awesome oh my god your birthday coming up I don't know what to do with you sometimes like I just don't I genuinely don't know what to do only because I say things like realistic vagina because I don't know when you come up with this shit I used to work in a sex shop get that but like I understand um but yeah you know I I see you know I because I was there at that time that we saw that couple have sex at that dungeon and I and I had the same kind of I didn't have the same kind of like wow how cool is that all of them to totally share their intimacy with all of us I because that was not it that's not what that was oh no no that was definitely not an it wasn't intimate it was a show it was a show which is fine yeah totally do your thing um we like shows yeah um but I I saw it more as a uh yeah I saw it as a show but I also kind of felt like I was drawn in unexpectedly um kind of like without consent or just I hesitate to say without consent. Obviously, I mean, you consent to seeing everything when you walk into a dungeon. But you know what I'm saying? Where it's on your side, you're like, whoa. You know, did you feel hesitant to watch? I couldn't not look away. I stopped my scene because I was like, now I have to watch. Right. This doesn't happen. Let's watch this. And honestly, like I couldn't look away and it reminded me unpleasantly about another scene that I'd seen a couple of years ago where it was like super, like should have had trigger warning like written all over it and made me mega uncomfortable and like not even in a good way. And it just, it reminded me a lot of that where because you are the spectator, you are, you're there, you're gonna see it. Unless you fucking walk out the room, you're gonna see it. So it kind of- Which I do, because I've had those experiences too. And I'm like, whoa. And I think human nature is our first indication, our first reaction. Is to blame them. Yeah. But for me, when I, there was a, it was a really minor thing. Somebody was punching someone's arm on a couch, like playfully. And that was an issue because my ex-husband used to do that to me all the time. Not so playfully. And so for me, it was real trigger. And I, it was in the main room where, but I looked at it, I was like, whoa. And it really freaked me out. And I just said, I just need to go. I just need to walk out of the room. And I did. And that's cool because that's their scene. And it was totally consensual between them. And I can't, you know, put my shit on somebody else. Right. But I feel what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, you know, I didn't think it was like, you know, something that I needed to like, you know, have some fucking aftercare for or anything. But it was just some, one of those things where I just felt like I was there and nothing else. That's just what I, my eyes were glued there. Yes. I do that too. It's like watching train wrecks sometimes. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Which it kind of was a little bit. It was, it was. Well, and we were, and this is, this, this is why we're both bad and awesome people. And that we were totally doing commentary. Like, she thinks she's going to do it. I wonder if she's going to fake it. Cause I don't know. He's not doing it. And I don't hear anything coming out of her. It was just really a very interesting experience. Sports center. Exactly. We're totally sports center. That's, and we, all we do is color commentary. It's pretty awesome. We don't actually have like a former professional athlete in there talking about it. Shit. Oh my God. Have a professional athlete. What? We should have like somebody, like, like somebody who has already had sex with one of those people. And they could be that retired athlete person. That's fucked up. And I totally want to do it. Right? Oh my God. We all know that person that's had sex with everybody. So it shouldn't be hard. No. To figure out. Oh God. That's awesome. I love that. We're so bad. But yeah, you know, I, I, overall, I don't have a problem with seeing people have sex at the dungeon. I don't, you know, I think it'd be cool. No. And I think that, you know, for a lot of people, it's a testament to the relationship. You know, I mean, some, some people are ridiculously in a committed relationship. Some of them are monogamous and that's totally cool. And they're in love and they want to have sex and that's fine. That's totally cool. Um, you know, but if they're not, then that's not cool. No, relax. I'm getting there. I'm just asking. No, no, no. But I'm saying, you know, that's great. That's awesome. It's not a big deal. You know, you bringing up the point of people who aren't in love and are not in a committed relationship. It's not like how they're, they're just whoring around. It's not that they're like somehow, you know, soiling themselves on, you know, the sanctity of sex. Soiling myself on the sanctity of sex. Cause sex is sanctimonious. Um, no, I, I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with that either. Um, I think, like I said, for, for me, it's, it's kind, it's a really intimate thing. I would be hard pressed to, you know, do that kind of sex. Like, you know, one, like we're both being sexual with each other, not one person, you know, leading the whole act and whatnot. I, it would be difficult for me to do that. I can understand that. Yeah. That would be difficult for me, but that doesn't mean that I like somehow turn up my nose to other people who do it. Not at all. No. And I, and I, I agree. I would have difficulty doing that. I get having actual sex in a very public place. I mean, you know, we've gone to swingers parties and stuff, but even then it's like, can I go to the back room? Cause I don't know you people. This is, I mean, this is, I, I make weird faces and sounds during sex and not everybody needs to see that. So, you know, it's one of those things. Um, but the people that do it, you know, I don't know why I'm watching. It would be interesting to have it in some of the back rooms. Yeah. Cause I can imagine all the people, you know, cluttering around, clustering around the door. Well, cause it's like that fucking, it's like a unicorn. Like you just don't see that at the dungeon. It's true. You really don't see that. It's true. It'd be awesome. Yeah. Let's go to the other dungeons so that we can see this. All right. We need to, so this is the thing. We're going to go to the dungeon, but we need to see sex. Oh my God. Can you remember the last time that we went dungeon hopping? Like it's been forever in a fucking day. It really has. Yeah. All right. We need to figure that out. Yeah. Yeah. Well not this weekend cause we're busy weekend. Well, yeah. Cause you know. Yeah. It's a busy weekend, but. Social life. Social life. Cause everybody wants to stay out. And I have dates every night. I don't want to go on these dates. She's not joking. I'm really not. I'm really not joking. And you know, although the Friday night I'm really excited about it. I'm going to go hang out with a bunch of sex bloggers. Like, like not just bloggers, like legitimate writers. Like they're actually published people. I'll be like, hi. You know, I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. I'm an idiot. I won't do that. I will act like I have a brain. Like a civilized person. A civilized sex blogger. That's surrounded by mahogany. Yeah, mahogany. Well, they're, these are all like normal, like sex bloggers. Like they just talk about normal sex and I don't. So that'll be interesting. Whatever that is. Yes. So one of these, we, we should, we should examine calendars, examine events and set up dungeon hopping. Yes. And if we want to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you want any people to hop with us? Yes. Not many people like to hop. Yeah, I get that. We'll be really self active about it. Just so you know. Yes. I know. Because, you know. Yes. Yes. I'm with you on all of that. Yeah. Well, I'm already very particular about the people that we actually hang out with in general. So. Although I, I would gladly see any one of those people fuck. The people that we are in contact with. Yes. Yes. I really would. Yes. I want to see all of them. There's so much. Every single one of them. There's so much you can tell about someone when you watch them have sex. Yes. So much. More than you would get from a regular conversation or just doing, you know, regular activities that don't involve being in bed with another person. And. Yes. Genitalia. There's just so much you can tell. Genitalia. What? I mean, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. No, I think that, and that's again, if, I don't know. And I've been thinking about, you know, do I want to, the challenge is mixing sex in with my BDSM. I don't, I applaud those people that can really do that. Like all of the, you know, the, the BDSM videos and, and the, the gifts and stuff that I see on Tumblr where it's, you know, like the male hat Dom and he's doing the traditional kind of BDSM-y things, you know, face fucking and all of those, those kinds of things. And it's like, wow, you know, they, they, they can do that because I suppose those are kind of normal, regular kind of heterosexual acts. They're just adding an, in a component, a component of severity to it, which therefore makes it cross the threshold to BDSM. Right. And that's cool, but it's, it's, you know, I don't, I don't know if I have the skill to adequately incorporate that into my play. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think I need to get into my play and feel comfortable with all of the safety aspects. I do a lot of edge play and it's just one of the, I mean like I don't do normal play anymore. Normal play. I mean almost everything that I do is considered edge play. And so I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm not sure if I would have the skill to be able to somehow interweave that with my play. Because it's an, it's just another, it's just another ball to juggle. Which I'm okay with actually like the multiple juggling of balls and it's not, it's not a thing. of balls and it's not even a CBT comment. I like challenge. I really do. And I mean, now, of course, I'll have the ball thinking of, is that something that I want to do and how do I do it and would I ultimately incorporate that? But it's just, it's also, is that really where I want to go? Is that, you know, I'm not, it depends on what you're doing with the scene. I'm always so focused on kind of the emotional, psychological experience of it. And whenever I bring kind of a sexual component into our scenes, it's usually always riding on the coattails of those two, as opposed to being focused entirely on sex. And the challenge I think is I would tend to focus too much on the sex because I really, really, really like sex. You really, really, really do. And I want to focus on that entirely. And I want, one of the reasons I really like, you know, kind of the kind of sex that I like is that I do get to just let go. I don't have to. I constantly be in charge all the time. I like kind of that struggle where I can struggle for it, but I don't have to worry about all of the ancillary things. So it's, I mean, I'm not saying that it's not a possibility for me to add it into my kind of BDSM play, but I just, you know, do I want to? And is that a muscle I'm willing to work on, et cetera, et cetera. Right. That's where I'm going. I'm feeling you. You're feeling me. You're clicking on stuff. What's going on? Just did something weird. I was like, what's going on? Do we have a caller? Which of course we don't because we don't have to figure out the phone number and I don't give a phone number because I don't like callers. I love listeners. I love all of you people that listen. I really, really do. Many of whom I know personally. Yes. Some of whom I've had sex with. I'm kidding. I haven't had sex with any of our listeners. But I just don't, I'm so picky on content, which we thought that you would guess from this show or anything that comes out of my mouth. But some people. Some people. Yeah. We really enjoy seeing reviews and being contacted. There's like 21 messages in my inbox on FET. I mean, we're terrible at communicating. I really am. And I haven't, I reset my phone so I don't have the app. What? I have, because you can't download it from the Play Store anymore. I have to go to that special place. That means I have to look for it. Which I will, but I haven't done it yet because I had to reset my phone. So. I just haven't gone there yet. Although the East Side Munch is coming up and I was like, oh shit, the East Side Munch is coming up. But I've got a date. I mean, I set up the date before, before Andrew sent out the email. When is it? It's tomorrow. Oh. It's tomorrow at Philips. I've never been there. Oh my God. Can I go? Like the best French dip ever. Yeah, you totally can go. Yes. Such a good French dip. So good. Why don't you see if anybody else is free? We'll see. Yeah. Ask around. Ask around. That way you don't have to go alone. I mean, you can if you want to, but I know that you get a little anxiety. Are you having anxiety now thinking about it? A little bit. Would it have been better if I had said no? I can't fucking win. Maybe I should take my date to Philips. Oh boy. Wow. Wow. Hey, what's up? Kidding. Let's not do that. Kidding. Kidding. Let's not do that. Kidding. No. No. I'm just having drinks. I want to limit my exposure to these people. What if I don't like them? So, what do you think the next frontier is for you in terms of sex and BDSM? I don't know. I actually don't know. I mean, it's... I... Because I've kind of lived with them separate for so long, conceptually combining them is going to take work for me. Does that make sense? Yeah. I've really gone out of my way to separate them in my mind, in my life, for... I'm sure that there could be some deep psychoanalysis of it all. Yes. Yes. And that's, you know... So, in order for me to bridge that gap, it's not an impossibility, but it's going to take some work, some processing, some... You know how you have delayed reactions? I don't specifically have delayed reactions, but before I make a decision, I will literally think about something for weeks, even months, and logic every possible possibility out before I come to a decision. Because it's funny, because you totally dance around the fact that you're kinky. But, you know, we moved on completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely completely and he even asked the next time we were together, he was like, so you were teaching a class? And I was like, oh yeah, I do that a lot. And he goes, like a sex class? I go, yeah. And that's it. Like I say nothing else. Yeah, no, you get no further information and bless his fucking heart, he doesn't ask. He doesn't ask. And you want to know what I think? I like that because I'm that kind of person too. If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question. Yeah. Don't ask the question if you don't want to know the answer. And I think he's there. I don't want to know the answer. I'm not going to ask the question. Cool, we're cool there. You didn't ask the question, so I'm not going to answer it. Right, right, right. Yes. But see, you know, that means you're kind of putting the ball in his court. You're not willing to offer the information. Nope. So, you know, I guess that was more my question is, because I mean, you're kinky, that's not going to change. But, you know, and you're now, what is happening, this quest of finding, you know, a supplemental fuck buddy, you know, is it going to be the same thing where if they don't ask, you don't tell? Yes, because I'm not looking for a boyfriend. I'm looking. I'm looking for a fuck buddy. There's a very specific set of responsibilities. Yes, but that, my question was more, so yes, you'll have a fuck buddy, but it's going to be a purely vanilla fuck buddy. There will be no kinky. I don't do anything vanilla. Even my vanilla sex is still risque to the vanilla people. You know, I mean, it's still, it's very rough. I like really, really rough sex. So it's still not, you know, the people that I have sex with, probably think they're really kinky. I mean, they're not, it's adorable, bless their hearts, but it's like, whatever, pull my hair, whatever. Try pulling it harder. I have a really high pain tolerance, you know, those kinds of things. So for me, I mean, I, part of the reason why I don't add additional relationships in is because I've really, number one, really full life, really full life, really complicated life. And it's all, it's like, how do I fit that other puzzle piece in? Is there even room for another puzzle piece? I don't know. I just don't know. I mean, ideally a kinky person would be great, but you know, I'm so. So many factors. Picky. There's so many factors. Right. It's the same thing for you, for why you don't have another person in your, it's very complicated. Very complicated. Wow, we're going to run out. Wow. Wow. Look at that chit chat. I don't even know what we're talking about. Anyway, so this is intellectual kink. And I am, at Insidious Muse on the Twitter and every place else. I'm at Service Slut. And you know, we love you people. We really do. We really, really do. Like genuinely, individually, and then as a whole.