Sex and love addiction discussion with Priscilla Jadala

Hello, this is Julianne Good and this is Psych One-on-One. Welcome. We are here to make psychology more understandable with tips for you, your family, and your friends to make your lives easier. How are you doing this evening? It's pretty lovely in downtown Los Angeles. Temperature's pretty decent outside. We're very thankful to be here. I hope you're not freezing, but if you are, just make sure that you're keeping yourself warm and toasty and I hope that you enjoy the next 50 minutes. My special guest this evening is Priscilla Jadala. She is a marriage and family therapy intern at the Nehru's Clinic down in Irvine, California, and that's where I'm also located. So Priscilla and I get to have some interesting conversations from time to time, which I appreciate. And welcome. Welcome, Priscilla. How are you doing? I'm so good. Thank you so much for having me. Well, thank you for being on. I'm excited about what we're talking about this evening. It's a pretty interesting subject. It is on sex and love addiction, which you specialize in. Yes. You know, it's a very complex topic. A lot of times it's very hard to talk about, so I'm really excited to have this platform to be able to share some information about this addiction that so many people do. Yes, they do. And can you tell the audience a little bit about your background? Yes. No, I would love to. So, yes, like as Julian said, I'm a marriage family therapist intern, and I do specialize now in sex addiction, love addiction, and that actually stemmed from, you know, I got my master's degree from the Chicago School. I graduated in 2012, and I've been working in the mental health field for over six years now. And my first specialty and passion came from sex addiction. working with the eating disorder population and addiction. And from working with the population, I noticed that there are so many different cross addictions. And one of the ones that most people were coming and suffering from was sex and love addiction and codependency as well. But the sex and love addiction just really fascinated me. I wanted to learn more about it. So I got certified in doing couples and sex work. And that's kind of how this specialty kind of became born. And it's something that, you know, more and more people I'm seeing suffering from this. And it's a really debilitating addiction. And there's so much shame. So that's why it's become something I'm so passionate in not only talking about, but working with. That's fantastic that you're working with that population because you're right, there is a lot of shame and guilt and probably remorse that's attached with that, depending on, yeah. Yeah. So I want to ask you, what is the difference between love addiction and sex? Sex addiction. Oh, and that's a great question because I think sometimes it gets so lumped together or someone who comes in, let's say suffering from love addiction will just, if they have some sexual behaviors attached to it, they will automatically be categorized as just being a sex addict. So just to give a brief description. So love addiction, it's basically someone who has really poor boundaries in relationships. A lot of their preoccupation is solely focused on relationships. It's very all consuming. There's a lot of anxiety, there's a lot of fear around it. There's a lot of maybe manipulative behavior, a lot of obsessiveness. And there's an extreme fear of abandonment or loneliness. So a lot of times also there's a big fear of being emotionally or sexually deprived, which is where you might see some sexual behavior. So a lot of infidelity going from relationship to relationship, just trying to fill that need or void for love. So that's kind of the difference because sex addiction is more of a compulsivity. It's more of just a preoccupation with sex. So it's more of a, you know, a lot of things that are going on in the sexual act, sexual behaviors, a lot of acting out, whether it be pornography, masturbation, a lot of strip clubs or massage parlors, certain things like that, where it's just something that cannot be controlled. So the difference really does tie into sex addiction is more, a lot more behaviors and love addiction is a lot more just despair and emotionality. That's interesting. Now, I would think that a lot of people would confuse the two just because of boundary issues. You know, people get into relationships and it's like, oh, I, you know, I'm so in love or lust or whatever with this person that I'm with. And then, you know, they start getting a little deeper into the relationship and then maybe the lines are a little blurry and then they can't see, you know, what makes the difference between getting into a relationship where you're thinking it's just really passionate. And then it ends up to be being really, truly codependent. Well, I think you nailed it right there, just even saying the word codependent, because it becomes this sole dependency on this other person or relationship to fulfill every void you have, where, and that's where the obsessiveness comes in. There's this extreme neediness. And so that dependency, they begin to become isolated. They let go of friends, family, even jobs, certain things, because the sole focus becomes relationships. They may end up in a relationship, but they're not going to be in a relationship. They need to find someone right away to get into a new relationship because that void is so strong, it's unbearable. Yeah. So they can't, they're not in control of their own lives. In other words, they're just, everything is externally focused out to the object of their affection. Exactly. And that's oftentimes why they may even stay in really unhealthy relationships. They may endure a lot of pain, even some maybe abusive factors, just because, the idea of being without the love or this person is so strong. And I even tie it to, you know, a lot of times someone who is chronically, let's say, a cheater, you know, who cheats on their spouse, their girlfriend, their boyfriend, you know, a lot of times we are quick to just say, okay, well, maybe they have a problem with sex, they're a sex addict. But I like to look further and see, is it the need for sex or is it the need for love? And that's where you kind of have to distinguish between the two. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because you do have to kind of question the behavior, of a person that gets into what looks like a committed relationship and what they, that was the beginning stages. Okay, let's try to make this relationship work. Let's commit to it. Let's fall in love. And then one person maybe gets a little fearful and starts pulling away and then cheating. And is that like a common factor in there? Is, is, is there a common factor in there? Is, is, is there a common factor in there? Is it just the fear? They, they want to be close to this other person, but they don't feel like they want to be consumed by that other person? Well, and I think this is the difference between, you know, love addiction, because the fear is this person I'm in love with, they're amazing, but I need more love. I need more affection. I need more sexual intimacy. So that one person they may love with all their heart, but it's not enough to fill that big void. So that's when, for someone who is a love addict, they will seek out maybe, an outside relationship or multiple relationships, because as much as they may love one person, it's not enough. So it's not necessarily the fear of being engulfed by their significant other. It's more of, it's just, they can't get enough. It's, they need so much of the love. It's filling that internal void, which may have been there for years and way before they got into the relationship. Exactly. That's why I feel like doing some either attachment work or some type of work to see, is there a wound? Did that happen, you know, in childhood? Was there a need that was not met? Where did this stem from? Because, you know, it doesn't just appear this need for, let's say, endless love or compulsivity. It does, I believe, stem from something. Yeah. And it's, as you said, Priscilla, it's that I need, I need, I need, and maybe they can't quite get to that word and say, I need blank. And sometimes, a lot of times they can be filled by other activities. Yeah. Or other healthier ways of expressing, I need, or, you know, maybe learning to be accepting of, well, I need this, but I'm not going to get all of my needs fulfilled. That's just part of being human. Yes, exactly. And that's part of the work that is done, you know, with sex or love addiction, is figuring out, you know, I always say, any addiction I feel serves a purpose. I mean, it's there for a reason. It's serving you some type of service. So what is it for you? What does, you know, needing relationships or love or what does going, you know, to the strip clubs or watching porn, what is that doing for you? Because, you know, a lot of times we, you know, with even pornography or other things, you're, you're taken away from reality. And so if you can kind of connect the dots for someone, it makes it more understandable and it makes it, you know, more for them to be able to understand their own behaviors. And it sounds like you come from a very compassionate standpoint that you're not shaming them. You're not dropping your jaw and going, Oh, I can't do this. You're not doing this. You're not doing this. And I can't believe that you did that because I'm sure if, if they have mentioned any type of the behavior that they're, they're engaging in the addiction and the lying and that another person would probably give them that kind of reaction, which wouldn't you say almost makes the addiction worse and makes them just want to become more hidden with it and, and ashamed. Oh, a thousand percent. I mean, I think that's something that I've seen so much. And it's, you know, I try to be as compassionate because I'm just grateful that they made the phone calls to come and get help or they come actually come into my session because so many times, even just in the phone call for them to say the words, I think I have a sex addict, I'm a sex addiction. I've been struggling with this is so hard for them. There's so much shame that there'll be labeled as, you know, a pervert or anything. And for them to actually seek help, it's so hard for them. So I really try to make them feel that, you know, there's nothing wrong with you. It's just, this is serving a purpose. There's a wound, there's a hurt. This is, this has a reason. Let's figure it out because it's so hard for them to even seek help because there is that big fear of being judged or being shamed or feeling like what's wrong with me. So what gets a love addict or a sex addict to the point where they're calling you up and saying, I've had enough? You know, I think it becomes, you know, and I think, you know, even just defining, even, any addiction, you know, it's when it's something becomes so compulsive where you actually have no control, you know, you may sit there and say, you know, I don't want to go to this place. I don't want to act out in this behavior. I don't want to use this substance. And you literally cannot control it. You feel a slave to these things. Then that I feel is when people start to hopefully notice that there's a problem. You know, when you are going, you know, spending money you don't have when you are jeopardizing your relationships, jeopardizing your work, that's when people kind of come to me and say, you know, I feel like I'm going to be a slave to these things. And I feel like I have a problem because I'm skipping work to do a, b, c, or d, or I'm spending money I don't have and I'm jeopardizing my marriage and they come in really scared. Either they may be in trouble with the law. You know, if I get caught doing something, you know, that lawyer is in, for example, exhibition is on, you know, a lot of people they come in and they're just even worried about, you know, am I going to go to jail? So I think that's when it becomes something where they're like a red flag, like I may be in desperate to get some help. So it sounds like it becomes overwhelming and it takes a little bit of time to get through all of Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. on a life of its own. Exactly. It just becomes, you know, just this web that builds and builds and builds and they're just stuck in it. So how often do you come across the cross addiction, like you were stating before, like it's a sex addiction, it's a love addiction, maybe there are substance abusers on top of it? Honestly, I see it so often. You know, like I said, I've worked a lot with eating disorders and with addiction and most of the time, whether it be eating disorders, drugs, or alcohol, there is either codependency, there could be gambling, there could be a strong component of codependency, sex, or love addiction. Love addiction and I think codependency are definitely the ones I mostly see, but there is that, you know, sexual component. I know the research community is now starting to really endorse the idea that addiction goes beyond substances. It is those things that are so important to us. I think that's a really good point. Like I mentioned, and these cross addictions that are just so intertwined that we really need to address as well in, let's say, eating disorder homes or drug and alcohol homes. So is there, would you say that there's maybe a neurochemical situation going on in their brains and where it's gone kind of haywire that, you know, they, and on one hand they say, I want to stop. And on another hand, half an hour later, they're, you know, they're going to be like, oh, I'm going to have to go back to doing that, that same behavior. You know, I mean, I would, I could definitely see that because if you think about love, you think about sex, you think about anything that kind of creates that pleasure response in us. I mean, we all want more to feel good, to feel happy. And that's why, you know, even with, with eating disorders, you know, there is that high pleasure response in certain behaviors with drugs and alcohol, obviously there's the high. And even with sex and love addiction, there is a high, there is that, you know, buildup. And so that leads up to acting out in certain behaviors. You know, they may fantasize about it. They may plan what they're going to do and how they're going to do it. So that leads up to the rush and the high eventually. And that is, you know, definitely I think a neurochemical response and that is what becomes also addictive as well. So they keep on chasing that high. Yes. Yeah. So how do you start unraveling an addictive situation like that? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I know you take some history, you sit down with the person. What is a first session like with you with a sex addict? I mean, I really, really try to join with my client. I want to know, you know, what their overall goals are for treatment. And I'm very understanding. A lot of the times they may come in and say, I'm not ready to give up, you know, these certain behaviors or I'm not there yet. So it's a lot of kind of motivational interviewing, figuring out where they are, where they're willing to change and kind of seeing, you know, what we can work on. If you're willing to maybe tackle this one part of the behavior, lessen it a little bit, let's start there. So it's baby steps. So it doesn't feel so overwhelming that they feel like I can't do this. Like they're being thrown off the track. Exactly. And I feel like support is key and just making them feel comfortable. And I also really encourage honesty. You know, if they mess up. If they act out, I want them to tell me. Yeah. And it's got to be a relief to be able to come in and say, hey, you know what? I tried to do what you recommended last week, but I fell off the wagon. I mean, that's a popular statement for not keeping on the path. But with addiction, there's a tendency to have that happen. And it's almost part of the normal path of getting away from an addiction is realizing there are going to be relapses for many people. Yeah. And not just... Go ahead. No, and that's, you know, what I also try to express to clients, you know, is never feel ashamed. Because I feel like that feeling of shame is what can keep you actually stuck and just giving up. And so if you can push past it and say, I messed up. How can I do better next time? I try to really motivate my clients to kind of keep hopeful. Like, if you mess up, it's okay. You're human. This is something you've maybe been addicted to for how many years, how many months? So it takes a while. It's relearning new behaviors. So I think just instilling support and hope is so crucial. Yes, it is. And then it's finding a replacement for that addiction. Something that's going to give the person a high but not a... You know, not an unbalanced and unhealthy high. Exactly. And that's why, you know, I feel learning coping skills, learning mechanisms for release or to feel good or to feel better about yourself. I think self-esteem, too, is key. I'd like to do a lot of self-esteem work. You know, how to feel good about who you are and what you're doing in your life, I feel, also really helps people. And for them just to even utilize honesty is such a relief for them. Because a lot of times, so many of these behaviors are kept hidden. So for them, just the ability to be honest starts so much change in itself. Yeah. And then probably a lot of the behavior that they're displaying also was taught to them by maybe their parents or their caretakers or, you know, so unraveling those stories to find out where is the root? Where's the root cause of this? Yeah. And I mean, one of the main questions I even just like to ask is, you know, like, how did you learn about sex and love? What was modeled for you? Yeah. What did you see, not only from caretakers or parents, but in school, from friends? I think that's a really key component because how we're taught about sex, sexuality, you know, about love, I think, really kind of lays the cornerstone for how we grow up, kind of believing what love is and what we think about sex and our views about sex. So I really like to at least get that part of the history so I can understand maybe where their views came from. Yeah, exactly. Where did it all start? Yeah. Well, Priscilla, we're going to. Take a quick break. And when we come back, I'd like to talk with you about attachment in sex and love. That sounds great. The Chicago School of Professional Psychology offers numerous psychology, behavioral and health-related science graduate degrees at three campuses, Los Angeles, California, including branches in Westwood and Irvine, Chicago, Illinois, and Washington, D.C. and on campus. Online. The Chicago School prepares students to meet the ever-changing mental health needs of society through classroom experience and real-world training. The Chicago School Counseling Centers in Irvine and Westwood provide caring, confidential, and affordable psychological services to individuals and their families. For more information, visit thechicagoschool.edu. And thank you to the Chicago School of Professional Psychology for sponsoring this program. We're sponsoring Psych One-on-One. This is Julianne Good, and I'm talking with Priscilla Jadala about sex and love addiction. And we're going to talk a little bit about attachment in sex and love and what that means. And what does that mean to you, Priscilla? You know, I think attachment is something I've just become so fascinated with. And, you know, basically attachment is how we attach to our caregivers, you know, from the day we're born. How we get our needs met. How we saw them, you know, in their relationships. And so there's four different attachment styles. And I really feel with my clients, I like to, you know, give the attachment quiz. And I really like to go into their attachments because it really models, you know, maybe how they go into relationships. What their insecurities are. How they present themselves and communicate in relationships. I feel it's very important. So when you do the assessment, do the quiz, and find out what their attachments are. What their attachment style is. How do you use that within the therapeutic sense? You know, I do. I psychoeducate them, you know. And basically, you know, like even what you asked me. What does it mean? What is the relevance of this? And I try to explain, you know, okay, so let's say you have an anxious attachment style. So that's a lot of anxiety. That is a lot of, you know, worrying about abandonment and a lot of insecurity. So then I kind of ask, you know, do these sound like characteristics that you have? Does this sound like you're in a relationship? And if they say no, then they're not. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. If they say no, then that's great. Then, you know, I'll go a different route. But if they really resonate with it, then it goes deeper. Where did this come from? You know, what was your relationship like with your parents? Your history of relationships? To see if this really is a pattern that they have. Yeah. And then just being able to see how far back that they can remember, especially whether they're male or female, what was your attachment to your mother? Maureen Maureen What was your relationship like with your parents? Your history of relationships? To see if this really is a pattern that they have. Yeah, and then just being able to see how far back that they can remember, especially whether they're male or female, what was your attachment to your mother? Exactly. Yeah, that is so crucial. And I've done a lot of studying about attachment theory also, and it also fascinates me because it affects every one of us, and we don't realize it until we start getting into intimate relationships. Exactly. Yeah, how much this can be pulling at us from a subconscious level, and we don't even realize it until we start questioning or we do this spontaneous behavior like, wow, why did I do this or that? I mean, that doesn't make sense. I mean, you just do it, and then you coil back, and then you think about it after you're away from that person, and you're thinking, what happened there? Or you try to blame it onto the other person when really you should be taking ownership of that behavior yourself. And hopefully you're asking yourself these questions so that you can go back and do the correction work because it is correctable up to a certain, degree. Yes. Not all of it, unfortunately, because we can't go back and do our childhood and have the perfect parents, but we can question that, take that information, and try to heal from it and try to do better, healthier behavior up the road. Exactly. And so much of attachment, it's in the environment. It's everywhere. I mean, if you had a highly anxious mother, and avoidant father, that will resonate with you as far as relationships go. So these are things we see, and it affects our environment. It affects our relationships. It affects how we view love and even getting our needs met. So it ties into so many things, which is so fascinating, which is why I love kind of exploring attachment with clients who are open to it. Yeah, and then a lot of times, they've never thought about that. And then you see the light bulb go on like, oh, well, this could be why. Right. Right. I've had a series of bad relationships. And I keep doing the same behavior with different people and expecting different results. Exactly. And it can even, you know, attribute to who we attract, who we're attracted to, and who we gravitate towards. Because if we have a certain type of attachment, you know, we may gravitate towards someone who is avoidant, and then we're anxious. And so we're always going after them, saying, love me, love me, love me. And they're saying, you need to leave me alone right now. And so it can really play into the dynamics of a lot of relationships, the healthy parts and the unhealthy parts. Yes. And then it's the comfort of the predictability. Exactly. Yeah. That's when you have to start questioning and stop. Yeah, you'd be like, what's going on here? Exactly. Exactly. Stop and take a deep breath. And ask yourself, what am I really doing here? It's not the other person. It's probably you. I mean, you know, a lot of times it's 50-50 in a relationship. Hopefully, but still, you have to ask yourself, if the person is giving you a negative response, what are you doing in kind? Where are you going with that? Are you fueling that fighting on? Are you fueling the abandonment issues where you're saying to the other person, you know, you can't do that because you're ignoring me or you're, you know what I mean? Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. You start playing into that. And again, it's that predictability, the comfort of it. We're comfortable with what we know. Exactly. We're comfortable with what's been modeled to us and with the patterns that we've been in. And I think, like you said, when that light bulb goes off, when they're awareness, when they see that awareness and they can put the dots together, it's just like, okay, now I understand maybe why I'm like this. I understand where it comes from. And now I can realize how to recognize when I'm going into this behavior and how to change it. Exactly. Rewrite your own history from here on out. Yes. Now, Priscilla, do women also struggle with sex addiction? Yes, they do. And, you know, that's such a, you know, another stereotype. You know, we think of sex and hypersexuality, and we automatically a lot of times can assume that, you know, it should be only a man's problem because, you know, we think of men and testosterone and just they want sex all the time, you know, those types of stereotypes. And actually, one in 40 U.S. women suffer from sex addiction. So 8% of Americans suffer from sex addiction. That's one-third of those who are suffering. So a lot of women, you know, come in with love addiction but also sex addiction, that compulsivity to getting their needs met, to going and doing risk-taking behaviors, like seeking out multiple partners, to as well going to, you know, strip clubs or other venues to, you know, get a job. And then, you know, find someone that they can spend the night with. So it's something that women do suffer from just as much. And I feel as a woman, there can be even more shame. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because there's still that stereotype that good girls don't do that kind of behavior. And, you know, boys are, that's okay for you to do that because, you know, boys will be boys. There's still that stereotype in our society. There is. And a lot of women, you know, there's the shame, you know, they think so less of themselves and it's more of a, no, let's figure out what this need is, what that problem is. But instead, they feel so shamed. A lot of times women won't seek help as much as, you know, men just because it is like, I shouldn't be suffering from this. This shouldn't be a problem of mine. And so they feel more shame, I feel. Mm-hmm. So is it more crippling in women then because of that double standard? I think it can be, you know. I mean, and it's like I said, I think they're more reluctant to go and maybe seek, you know, help. You know, I think when you talk, I've talked to, you know, a couple of clients who have gone to different meetings and, you know, there may be a couple of women, but even then, you know, I think also they may feel, you know, nervous. You know, they're going into a sex addiction meeting or a sex and love addicts meeting and, you know, they're with the opposite gender. And so when you have, you know, a population who are seeking sex, seeking sexual behavior, then you have, you know, cross genders. It can be, you know, a very triggering environment. Mm-hmm. And with women is it? A different core component that leads them into sexual addiction? You know what I found is I think, you know, like I said earlier, it's serving them a purpose. Whether there was early childhood trauma, whether there were relational issues with parents, you know, you kind of see the same core kind of pain, you know, and that's just figuring out what that is. So, you know, I like whether it's a man or a woman, I treat it as, look, you're a human being coming into my office. Let's figure out what it is. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. so kind of stereotyping them as well. That's a good answer. Yeah, I agree. You have to find out what's behind it. And it does serve a purpose. It does play into the pleasure centers of the brain. Exactly. And, you know, if someone, let's say, their thing isn't, you know, drugs or alcohol or even issues with food, what, you know, besides love, sex is one of the things that, you know, targets those pleasure feelings. And so, like, it's understandable why something like that can be just as addicting as drugs, alcohol, food, because it's just igniting all those senses, all those chemicals. So when a person comes to you with multiple addictions, where do you start? You know, I think it depends on just overall, you know, I look at the overall health of my client and risk. So let's say if there's, you know, an eating disorder with, you know, sex or love addiction, I want to make sure that their health is number one. And then we'll tackle the underlying issues. But if they come in with high-risk sexual behavior, where there, like I said, could be a chance of, you know, legal things that happen or, you know, ways they can get in some serious trouble, then we'll tackle that first. But I think overall, looking at just overall, what's risk to your health or your overall well-being when it comes to the law or, you know, work relationships, stuff that can be really detrimental, I like to target first. So what's the most outstanding problem at the time? You know, I think pornography is a very, you know, widespread problem. I mean, the access to it is, I mean, so easy. It's everywhere. You know, you have the internet, you have smartphones, you have, you know, TV, movies. So that's something that I know is definitely a problem for both men and women. Women just, you know, as much as men, you know, suffer. And I think with pornography, it is a way to escape reality. Not only are you triggering the pleasure senses, but you are actually escaping reality. You're in your own world. There's a buildup. And that is a way to maybe not have to deal with real life problems, emotions, feelings, relationships, because you have your own little world. So that's what I've seen be a really big issue. Yeah, you're right. It is everywhere. And it is so easily accessible nowadays. And so how do you start weaning a person off of this then? What would be... like a general tip that you could give somebody? Just to start off with, just to take that first baby step. You know, I like to utilize harm reduction. So, you know, I'll kind of ask, you know, how many times a week or a day do you spend time, you know, watching pornography? And they could give me a number of five hours a day, 10 hours a day, three hours a day. And so I kind of see what I can do. Can you limit it to four and a half hours? Can you limit it to four hours? Yeah. You know, I try to see where they're willing to go. And we make an agreement, you know, okay, I will try to do four and a half hours this week. They'll come in next week. I'll check in with them, see if that was even something that they could do. And a lot of times they'll come in and they'll say, hey, it was worse. Or, you know what, I was able to do it. And if they're able to do it, then it's okay, let's try four hours this week. So I really try to, you know, go slow and make it like, well, I'm not taking everything away from you. But let's see what you and your own strength, what you can control. And then do you suggest certain replacements like maybe exercise or, you know, calling up a friend or, you know, something like that? Something to kind of, you know, get them off the track a little bit? Oh, yes. I mean, honestly, I think exercise is number one. Because it's another avenue, a healthy avenue to really get those endorphins going. And, you know, you start to feel good. You're getting that energy out. You're getting a focus. So I really, I really. I really advocate for exercise. I really, you know, I suggest yoga, meditation. I do, I mean, I recommend meetings if possible. If my clients are open to it, you know, there's SWAT meetings. There's SA meetings. There's Smart Recovery. There's really other avenues to get support, to get sponsors, to have someone to call, you know, saying, hey, I have an urge right now. Let's process it. So I really try to give them outlets, you know, different venues of support, different ideas of what they can do to empower themselves outside of sessions. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then that starts unlocking that shame and the secrecy of having an addiction. Because it just, you know, that starts eating up people's souls. It does. I mean, I feel like that's the most pain I see when people come in is just all the secrecy and everything they have to keep inside. And like I said, shame. Shame is so big. That despair of what's wrong with me. And that's the pain I see the most. Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult to work with. It's difficult to see a person suffering that deeply and just having their lives unraveled to a certain degree. Yeah. And there's, you know, so much fear. I mean, there's the fear of what if my spouse finds out? What if my coworkers catch me? What if, you know, and so that's just another level of anxiety, which a lot of times they can develop anxiety and underlying issues. Because when you have so many, when you're hiding so many things and there's a fear of getting caught, then the anxiety is through the roof. Mm-hmm. So with sex addiction, how much does that play into real intimacy? Or is it just a physical outlet for a lot of addicts? You know, I think, you know, it can affect their relationships, obviously. You know, you could have someone who's hypersexual. And it also could be someone who's sexist. And it could be someone who's actually avoidant as well. I wanted to mention that, you know, it doesn't even, it could be someone who actually avoids sex, has a fear of sex. And that is another level that actually, I say sex addicts anonymous, they actually cover in their meetings and their groups. Because there could also be some other underlying issues with someone who's avoidant. So it's very hard for someone who is a sex addict to really achieve true intimacy. Because there are those behaviors and these things that kind of block it. Mm-hmm. So how do you get a person? How do you get a person to start opening up on an emotional level when they're a sex addict? I think the number one question that really gets them thinking is when I just ask, you know, what purpose is this serving? And, you know, they could start off and go with the physical, the physical outlets of it. But I like to really dig deeper. You know, when do, and I want to find out, you know, what triggers you to act on a behavior? When does the urge hit? And I try to find a pattern. A lot of times boredom, when they're bored, they will act out. And boredom can mean so many other underlines. So when they're anxious, it's a way of relaxing, calming the anxiety. It could be frustration. It could be an outlet. So there is emotionality tied to it. So it's asking the right questions and kind of putting those, connecting those dots that gets them really opening up about the deeper level. Even when they think of, you know, when they were younger, connections of how they learned about sex. Then they're like, wait a minute. So this message I got about what sex meant is maybe why I seek this behavior out or I want to achieve this feeling. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. It's really interesting when you start to dig really what can come up. And sometimes the emotions come out organically. Even if it is to just shut down emotions. That is serving a purpose on a deeper level. And that's definitely the best way to start releasing all of that is to just let the emotions surface in their own time, in their own way. Versus sitting there and trying to push at it sometimes. Because, you know, for some people that could be another triggering. And cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural if they don't like what I'm asking them to do, tell me, and we will collaborate and find out what works. Because my number one thing is I want you to feel safe and I want you to feel comfortable. And I tell clients off the bat, if you don't like me, if you don't like my approach, if you don't feel comfortable and you can open up and be honest, let's find you someone else because the only way this will be helpful for you is if you feel safe. That's my number one message I like to tell any client I work with. I think safety and being comfortable and open and honest is key. Yes, it is. That's fantastic. I highly, highly agree. And Priscilla, we are going to take another break and we will come back and wrap up. Last thoughts. Are you searching for answers and insight to life issues? Is the behavior of family or friends questionable or concerning? Find tips and possible solutions from the convenience of your own PC, cell phone, or tablet at therapycable.com. Therapy Cable has the most comprehensive library of contemporary therapy videos online. Help may be as easy as a few clicks away. Therapy Cable offers comprehensive therapy videos ranging from addiction to self-care and contact information for qualified providers. Find the answers to your life challenges at therapycable.com. cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And welcome back to Psych One-on-One. And thank you to Nico Schmier for that lovely tune. And the intro and outro music was also composed, written, and recorded by Nico. And we are back with Priscilla Jones. And we are talking about sex and love addiction. And Priscilla, what else, as we've been talking, what else would you like to add to our conversation? You know, I just would like to give people, you know, just I guess some resources. You know, if there is someone out there who, you know, maybe have heard some of what we've been talking about and feels, you know, hey, this sounds like me or someone I know or something I'm struggling with. There are resources. You know, a lot of times some clients I've had before they've actually sought out therapy started out going to some groups or support meetings. So, you know, to give that resource out, you know, there is the SLAW meetings, which is Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. And you can find them on SLAW.org. And, you know, that's a great thing for both sex and love addicts. And then there's also SA, which is for Sexaholics Anonymous, SA.org. And that's another great resource. And they both utilize the 12 steps. For anyone familiar with AA, they really go heavily into utilizing the 12 steps to help with, you know, understanding and recovery. And for some people, you know, who don't maybe necessarily want to go down utilizing the 12 steps, there is Smart Recovery, which is SmartRecovery.org. And they are a great resource as well for self-help from addiction recovery. So those are just some great resources for anybody out there who may be wondering, you know, where can I go? Who can I talk to if they're not ready to go, you know, the therapy route yet? So. Yeah. And you can go online and find a lot of information for those organizations that you mentioned. And that might start the process, too, of self-reflection and getting honest with oneself about, you know, you may have some issues. You may have some addictions and stuff. But it is workable. It is doable to get over it, to start bringing in healthier behaviors. And becoming happier with your own self and living a guilt-free life. Exactly. And it's never, you know, there's never any age that's too old or too young to just try and figure yourself out and make changes. Because like you said, you know, to be free and live, you know, a life that's honest and, you know, you're rid of shame and guilt and hiding things. I mean, I think that's key. You know, people want peace. And it's never too late to try and achieve that. Yes. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I definitely agree. And you're right. At any age, at any stage, you can change. Period. Yes. Now, how do you support somebody that you care about or love and you know that they're having an addiction problem? And it could be any sort of addiction. But, you know, since we've been talking about love and sex, let's start there. How do you get, how do you support? How do you support them when you see that that other person is suffering? Well, and I feel like, you know, it can be so difficult for the loved ones, you know, who see someone struggling from any addiction because they want to help or they may not understand. Especially something like sex addiction, you know, if there's a spouse involved, that can be, or, you know, a significant other, that can be so hard on them because, you know, they're dealing with the behaviors of their partner and they're, you know, feeling some hurt and pain. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. deeper, no judgment, you know, no shame. I think trying to put the anger aside and coming from a place of compassion and wanting to understand. And, you know, it's that, you know, even getting help for themselves. There's, you know, lots of support groups and resources for loved ones, you know, of people who are suffering not only from love, sex addiction, from multiple addictions. So I feel, you know, themselves to empower themselves to get educated, to understand, to, you know, like I said, come from a place of compassion and no judgment. I feel when people feel judged, they feel that need to go into the defense mode. And not a lot can be done when someone is just trying to defend themselves. Exactly. And judgment is so harsh. I think that's one of the most difficult emotional slings that one can throw is that judgment, like you shouldn't be doing this. And why are you doing this to me? And, you know, you get into that automatic defense mode. And when you're, you're the partner of a love or sex addict, trying to go through their own head of, you know, is this my fault? Is this my doing? What did I do to create this person that I cannot control right now? And I think that's, you know, that's the struggle. And, you know, when it starts becoming this, you know, this judgmental cycle where they're judging because they're in pain and they're feeling it. And I think that's, you know, that's the struggle. And, you know, when it starts becoming this, you know, that's the struggle. And, you know, when it starts becoming their own emotions and their own turmoil. And then the person that, you know, they're, they're talking to, they're a person who's suffering, they go into the defense, but also shame increases, that guilt increases, and then they shut down. And so I think the best way to help is to offer support for the person who is the loved one, seeing someone struggle. Like I said, empower yourself, you know, get educated, look it up online, research, talk to people. And, you know, you have, you have the choice to, to make decisions. You know, what's manageable for you. And I think that's where the conversation needs to start, open, honest conversation. Yeah. And get support for yourself also. Yeah. The, when you were talking about 12 step groups, I think a really significant one that I've, that I've known people to go to has been Codependence Anonymous. CODA? Yes. Is great. I, I went to one of those meetings for my substance abuse class and just sat there and listened. And I think a lot of us can probably understand how easy it is to get into the, the codependent mode. You think you're caring about somebody, but you, again, you're, you're, you don't have the healthy boundaries and you have to live and learn in that because we are not taught that in most households and in this society, what is enough and what is too much. And I think that's a really, really important thing to do. And I think that's a really important thing to do. And I think that's a really, really important thing to do. And I think too much. Where is that, that fine line in intimacy? Yeah. And I feel like you, I think, you know, you said it perfectly. Boundaries are so key with anything and it's being able to distinguish, you know, what is too much for me. And when I'm, when I'm, when am I in the mode of, I'm not, I'm getting too much. I don't know when to stop. And that I think is with any addiction, any behavioral, you know, behavioral things, personality traits, we have to be able to distinguish, you know, where we are in our lives and where we are in our lives. And I think that's a really, really important thing to do. And I think that's a really, really important thing to do. And I think we are at what our boundaries are and what boundaries we want to set with the people in our lives. And be honest with our own needs and wants. Exactly. I feel like asking for our needs, identifying what they are is something also we may not know about. We may not even know what our own needs are, why we do the things we do. And if we can start to really identify this is what I need and ask for it, it's so empowering. It is. And then also realizing that one person alone cannot fulfill all of our needs. And so I think it's a really, really important thing to do. And all of your needs ever. Ever. And that's so much pressure on the person that we're asking to fulfill all of our needs. I mean, we're making it impossible for them to feel like they can really do much because there's always something that they're not doing. Exactly. And it's trying to live up to these fairy tales that we were brought up with or these delusions in our head like, oh, well, this person's going to be my everything. And I mean, how many times in media does it play into that? Oh, you're going to be my everything. Nobody can ever be your everything. You have to spread out your needs and wants between various people, various activities. Just go explore. I was in a lecture by Esther Perel and she's fabulous. She has a lot of lectures on sex and love on YouTube. And she was talking about, we used to be raised in villages. We used to be raised in communal territories for generations. And we're not, we don't do that anymore. Not on a consistent basis. I mean, there's still some cultures that do that. And that's beautiful. That's what we're doing. And that's what we all need. But because of modern society, we don't get that. But she was talking about that we are now conditioned in many respects to fall in love with one person. And that person needs to fulfill all of the requirements that used to be fulfilled within your neighborhood, your tribe, whatever, and on a communal level. And that is impossible. And you're right, Priscilla, that's a lot of responsibility. And I think that's a lot of responsibility for one person to shoulder. It is. And I love what you said. I think the idea that we're being told one person can meet all your needs, but also if you achieve this amount of money or this type of look, that's where so many of these problems come from. Because we think if we achieve these certain things, if we get this type of look, we'll be happy and we'll be okay. And that is why so many of the people who are suffering from any addiction, there is a low self-esteem component. There's low self-love. And if they can achieve that, they can achieve that. And that's why so many of the people who are suffering from any addiction, there is a low self-esteem component. There is a low self-esteem cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural cultural! It's vital. It really is. It's not selfish. You need to love yourself first. I agree. And a lot of times we can confuse that for being selfish. And I want to say it is not selfish. It is a necessity. It is. It is needed. It is. Thank you. So Priscilla, if the listeners would like to contact you, how can they do so? They can go and visit my website, www.journeytowellness.info. Or they can call me. My professional number is 949-264-3914. So I'm very easily reachable. Yes, you are. Yeah, you're wonderful. So yes, so reach out and get some help if you are having problems with love and or sex addiction. There is help. There is a path to wholeness. It's attainable. It's not impossible. So thank you. Thank you so much, Priscilla. I really appreciate you being on my show this evening. Thank you so much for the opportunity. And it was so lovely to speak with you and to all your listeners. Yes, thank you. Take care. You too. Thank you. And if you would like to contact me, you can do so at jgoode8 at verizon.net. My office number is 562-234-4650. Both Priscilla and I are located... We are located at the Nehru's Clinic down in Irvine, California. And please look me up on Facebook under Psych1on1, P-S-Y-C-H-1-on-1. Friend me, contact me, say hi, and let me know what you think of the show, what you would like to suggest in any kind of assistance I can give you. I would love to do so. I really appreciate you being on. And I appreciate that you have... been so supportive of Psych1on1. I hope it has helped you. And, you know, just your journey to wholeness and wellness is so important. Be good to yourself. Be good to each other. Bye now. Bye now. Bye now. Bye now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.