Interview with hairstylist Richard Rosenthal on celebrity styling and salon culture

Thank you. I am so excited to have you guys here. You know, I always bring in people who, the criteria to be a guest here is you must be interesting. I must somehow find you completely and totally fascinating. And despite that criteria, I still managed, I made an exception. No, it's not true. This guy is amazing. And I've written, I have come up with a really great introduction for him. And I'm so excited to share him with you. What do Bette Midler, Jeff Goldblum, Carrie Fisher, what do all these stars and so many more have in common? Hmm? They all have been hairstyled by this man. That's not even a very good sentence, is it? They've had their hair styled by this guest. For over 40 years, our guest tonight has been styling the hair of the rich and famous of Beverly Hills. And if I had hair on my head, he would definitely be doing mine. He is Richard Rosenthal. Hello. Are you Jewish by chance with that name? Indeed. Yes? Yes. Was it hard having the name, and I don't mean this as a pun, Richard, and like hard, like, I mean, did people call you Dick? And was that like, as a kid, a hard thing? I always thought for a kid, that would be tough. Truthfully, no one ever called me Dick. Not to your face. Right. Right. So it wasn't an issue? No. Okay. That's a quick answer. Now, how is my hair, by the way? You've seen it. I had my hat. For those of you who don't. It's perfect for you, Vic. It's perfect. Yeah? Yes. Do you think some heads are better for... Head shape is beautiful. I have a beautiful shape. That's what everyone tells me. Have you ever styled any chest hair? I have. And that is the third question. I have, but not in the salon. Hello. Enough about your off time. How about nose hair or back hair? Again, in years of your time. Actually, that is part of the grooming for some of the guys. Okay. What percentage of your clientele are men versus women? 30% men. Okay. Now, you are a hairstylist in Beverly Hills. This is true. What's the name of the salon where you're working? James Kendall Salon. Who's James Kendall? James Kendall is the owner. He's been around for a while and had quite a few salons. And the one we're at now, because he had a James Kendall before on Beverly, which is repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet Do you call yourself hairdresser? Is that old school? Yeah, hairdresser is kind of weird. What would you call yourself? Although in London, that's kind of a nice way to say my profession. But here... I want to be correct. What should I be calling you? Hairstylist. Hairstylist. I'm a hairstylist colorist. Okay. And I made this, I put together that little list of celebrities. I'm sure there have been more over the years. How did you end, how did Bette's head end up in your hands? Well, I got a phone call from her makeup artist, Eugenia. And Bette wanted her hair and makeup done. You do, Eugenia? Sorry to interrupt, but a friend of yours? So how did... Eugenia owns Senna Cosmetics. Okay, I'm not familiar with them, but a lot of perhaps... Well, you don't wear makeup, Vic. And how do you know that? Well, what I do on my... If you knew makeup, you would know Senna. I do wear a pancake, you know, like when I'm acting. Mac is very good. Someone told me about that. Yeah. So Eugenia, who you were friends with through your work in her makeup business, called you and said, we need some help with Bette. Well, she didn't say it exactly like that. She said, do you want to come do Bette Midler's hair? How do you say no to that? She said, where? At her house, she said. What's her house like? Nice. Benedict Canyon. No, I'm sorry. Coldwater Canyon. Is there a gate? Like, do you have to... No. So anyone could just walk up? Yeah, actually. I'm always amazed by that. But you wouldn't know it was her house. I mean... So you said yes because... I mean, what did that pay? That must have paid a lot. Can I guess? $500. This was quite a long time ago. Okay. I didn't cash a check for a long time after. Really? Why? Because I idolized her. And I couldn't believe I had a check with her signature on it. So she wrote the check out right there in the room? Yeah. So it wasn't like a business manager had a check prepared or something like that? No, no. We were in her bathroom. She was on her way to go to David Bowie concert and so was I. Just coincidentally you were going? Coincidentally. At the Hollywood Bowl, perhaps? At the Forum. Okay. This is in the 80s? This is a while ago, right? It was when she had the pineapple blonde hair. Okay. Only you would remember. It was not good. And I probably should have not let her know that I liked her better with red hair. You told her that? Yeah. And that may be why this was the only time... That was probably the only time I did her hair. Yes. Did she ask you what you thought of the color of her hair? Or you felt it incumbent upon yourself as a fan as well as a... I just think it's an off comment. I said that I really loved her with red hair. You know, it's funny because when I think of Bette Midler, I just think of red hair. This was pineapple blonde. This was yellow. Okay. So this was... Did you say this was like in the 80s? Early 90s maybe? Something like that. Okay. So how long were you there at the house? It didn't take long to do her hair. I blew it out. But then she decided she wanted... I did it up. So I put it up. Then she decided she wanted it down. So I did it down. Then she decided she wanted it up. So I put it up. And then I said that she might have to take me to the concert if we keep doing this because we're not going to have enough time. Right. That's the second reason you weren't asked. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. And I said, I'm going to leave it up because you can always take it down. If you can't put it up, but you can put it down. So I'm going to leave it up and whatever you do works for me. But I have to go. And what was her response to that? She understood or... Yeah. I don't think it was unreasonable. I didn't think she thought that. Okay. Okay. And... You didn't have to cut her hair. No. Okay. So you couldn't mess it up. You know, like, I mean... A blow dry and a styling is not something that is totally not a way to ruin anybody. Styling it incorrectly. Now, I know we said this is a while ago, but I'm just curious. Like, what... That's a house call. Is that like about... I'm going to go 300. Am I close or do you not even remember? You know, I don't even remember. I don't think it was that much. Okay. But just the thrill alone of... Yeah. I probably would have done it for free. Don't tell anyone that, but I... It's our secret. It was... I idolized her. How about Carrie Fisher? You did her hair, correct? Yes, I did. And how... I had to give her a perm, as a matter of fact. Wow. And how did that come about? That came about because my uncle, Uncle Al, he was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was a hair designer. He was contracted out to provide certain films with drugs. Wait, wait, hold on. What do you mean by contracted out? Literally the studio paid him to bring drugs to the set? Yeah. This is probably not in the books, right? No. Well, I never saw where they put, you know, I never saw a contract or anything, but I know certain actors of the time, of the day, that was in their contract of saying they wanted cocaine or whatever it was on the set. And Uncle Al would show up and provide it. And he had heard the hairstylist for the film that she was doing. It was called Under the Rainbow. Okay, so all of you can look up Under the Rainbow? Huh? Everyone watching or listening can look up Under the Rainbow. Yes. And they can see your work, right? Well, I did not do, I did not do her hair on the film. Okay. The woman who was doing her hair and all the munchkins for the film had to style them in the era of the 30s or 40s, whenever The Wizard of Oz was supposed to have taken place. And so to set them in waves and stuff, and Carrie Fisher had really straight hair, so she needed a perm to be able to have this wavy hair and have it left. And she had to have it done in a very, very short time. And she had to have it done in a very short time. And she had to have it done in a very short time. And she had to have it done in a very short time. So Uncle Al said, oh, my nephew could do that. Go see him. So Carrie came in and a lot happened. Well, what happened? Well, I liked her very much. She was very nice. And she wanted me to procure her Percodans. What's Percodans? Is that a painkiller? Pain pills, yeah. But that's Al's job, right? That's Uncle Al. Yeah. No, Uncle Al was more cocaine, yeah. Okay. He was partners with the Israeli mafia. For real? For real. Is he still alive? Uncle Al, may he, God rest his soul, no. What happened? He didn't get gunned down or anything? Well, we're surprised he lived to 75, actually. He did get gunned down at one point. Here in our life? But he lived through that. Wow. Yeah. So he died of natural causes. Cocaine. And that business, that might be the natural causes. Yeah. He had a lot of stuff by the time he died. So what happens when a celebrity like that is asking for drugs? I mean, you're not a drug dealer. Do you feel pressure? Like, if I want to keep this client, I might need to help them out in this area? Well, I told her I'd look into it. I knew one or two people that I might be able to ask. And, you know. So were you able to help out? No. Oh. You know, people aren't very willing to give up their drugs. Right. And it sounds like that's just not your thing. Well, that wasn't my thing. My drug of choice at the time, I probably back then, it was Quaaludes. Was this the 70s? No, it was 80s, 80, 81, something like that. You know, Wolf of Wall Street, or isn't that the name of the film, The Wolf of Wall Street? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I want to tell you, they made Quaaludes look so good. That's what it was like. That I was like wanting to buy them. That's what it was like. I mean, I guess you can't get them anymore. No, you can't. You can't. You say that with a bit of sadness. Total sadness. Do you think you, how many times were you doing Quaaludes? Like every day? No. How would you describe Quaaludes, being on Quaaludes? Sort of like not messy, drunk. So drunk without the hangover? No inhibitions, no hangover, kind of tingling in the fingers. It was excellent. Is that a good thing if you're cutting hair to have tingling in your fingers? I don't think I ever took Quaaludes when I was cutting. No? What were you on? We did coke a lot. In the actual salon? Oh, yeah. I used to work with a woman who on Halloween, we'd of course all dress up. And part of the deal was she would bring brownies and we would eat these brownies that were laced with drugs. Like what kind of drugs? Beyond marijuana. We'd Percodan and all kinds of. Percodan brownies? Yeah. Whatever she could find, she'd throw in there. Wow. She's quite a chef. Connie was her name. I'd be scared to have eaten at a dinner party at her place. She was great. She worked at the salon? Yep. What did she do there? Connie did hair. Connie was, I think, John Peter's last assistant, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. And for those who don't know, like me, until recently before we were talking about John Peter's, John Peter's was like the A-list guy, like in the mid-70s. He was the- Oh, yeah. He was the hair stylist in Beverly Hills, in Los Angeles. You mentioned, we had talked about, you know, prior to the show that you once met John Belushi in the studio. Yeah. Carrie Fisher brought him in. So they were buddies? Very close. And were they like two peas in a pod? Well, I had a bit of a problem with him because when he came in, it was all about John and it was John. It was John. It was John's show. And I was trying to run a business and do people's hair. And John made that very difficult. And I once told him, I said, I don't tell you how to tell jokes. I don't think you should be telling me how to do hair. He was telling you how to do hair. Oh, yeah. So that's got to be a challenge. I mean, you told off John Belushi. I mean, that's telling someone off. Yeah. I had some pretty big ones back then. Big one what? Big balls? Yeah. Do you think that that was a wise choice? I mean, you don't really want to piss off John Belushi, right? You know, I didn't even think of stuff like that back then. I, whatever I thought I got to say, I said it. Were you cocky? That's one way of putting it. So again, like I'm picturing this like late seventies. No, this is, I think about 80. Okay. So 80, maybe 81, 80, 81. What was he doing in the shop that was distracting? Just the fact he was there. And he was such a big celebrity. Or was he interfering literally with the cutting that was going on? Yeah, he was getting involved in like saying things about how I should, wouldn't it look better over here or something or. So he wasn't being funny. He was actually trying to help. Some of the time he, well, he thought he was being funny. You weren't. No, I didn't appreciate it. And was he, do you think he and Carrie were an item? Like were they? No, they were buddies. They were really good friends. Did he come in wasted? Today, looking back, oh, no doubt. At the time, I don't know that I would have thought about that. Did you do drugs with John Belushi? No. Did he offer? No. How about Carrie Fisher? No. Okay. Were you surprised to hear that John Belushi? I don't think people wanted me to do much while I was doing their hair. Right. They needed someone to be sober. Yeah. Were you surprised when you heard he had OD'd and died? No. You thought you could see? No, I was not surprised. And again, for any of you who don't know these people, which would be really surprising, but it might be, you know, someone, these are people that like, particularly John Belushi, he's passed away a long time ago. Check him out online. You know, he's made his big, really comedic debut in Saturday Night Live. Yeah, he was big. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a genius. Just not in your shop. No, it was a distraction. Did you, do you think, are you, the way you're describing it, you threw him out? No, I wouldn't say it like that. Have you ever thrown a celebrity out of your shop or shop you're working at? I might've said something that, that might've offended someone and they didn't come back, but I, I did not say, I'm sorry, you better leave. What was your first year? The first year you, you started cutting hair? Uh, let's see, 76. Okay. So it literally is 40 years from the time of this broadcast. Yes. And when you think about that, what, what makes you laugh about that? Well, it seems almost impossible, but that that's been 40 years. Yep. Was that your goal as a child? No. A dream of yours? No. Um, when I was in high school and we watched Watergate every day, I wanted to be an attorney. I wanted to get those fuckers. And why? That's what I wanted. Why didn't you become an, where did you go to high school? Uh, in the Valley, El Camino, Woodland Hills. You're an LA native. Yep. And what kind of kid were you in high school? Uh, I didn't belong in any real group. I wasn't a jock or I wasn't really smart. I, I had probably too much style at the time. Um, you know, that was, uh. Bell bottoms? Oh, totally. Yeah. Oh yeah. And platforms? Oh yeah. Oh, totally. We had dittos and Britannias and. Oh, it was great. Calvin Klein's didn't come in quite yet, right? No, Calvin Klein was not around. Right. So you were, you were really, you had a whole thing going. Do you have an Afro? Well, they said Jufro. I hate that term, but. Uh, no, I had layered feathered hair. Yep. Okay. Who, who was, uh, who was your, uh, teen crush? Did you have a crush? I had a crush on my mom. Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. Who, who was, uh, who was your, uh, teen crush? Did you have one? David Cassidy? I think he's cute guy. I hate to, you know, I'm straight, but I'm like David Cassidy is hot. I think we like Bobby Sherman a little better. Okay. He's really straight. I mean, he's no, he's not like rock and roll or. We didn't think about whether or not we're to actually be with them. We just. But I mean, he's so, uh, square as some would say. Yeah, probably. Okay. That's interesting. That, that was the era of that. Right. So, um. Yeah, David Cassidy was fine. Yeah. I would have said no to him. I think he's hot now. Well, I mean, when I look at him back then, whatever. I'm digging myself in a hole. Yeah, totally. I'm, I'm, I'm watching this. I think a man can, a straight man can appreciate the beauty of another man. Yeah, sure. Without wanting to make love to him. I get it. And if it were with him, it would be making love in my case. Okay. Um, so you're the oldest of three. I am. And you come from a Jewish family in the Valley. Oh yeah. What were mom and dad doing for work? Was mom at home? Your mom? Uh, unfortunately she was home. Why do you say unfortunately? I wish some days that I would come home and she would not be there. Yeah. And dad, what was your dad doing? Uh, he's, he was an optometrist. Okay, cool. And so it's very conservative family. Um, I don't know that I'd say that. Okay. Uh, because they did accept me being gay. And. When did you know you were gay? Uh, when I was 16 and a half. Okay. And, and how was that coming out to them? Well, I didn't tell them. They sort of found out. Um, I was sort of kidnapped. What do you mean by that? Um, I went out, um, dancing in a place called the bitter end west. And, um, I went with a friend who I was supposed to spend the night with out in Granada Hills. Um, I was all excited because, um, we got to stay until closing at two. Because I always had to be home at 1230. And how old were you? 16 and a half. Okay. I used, uh, people's fake ID and stuff. Yeah, it was easy back then. Uh, it didn't seem, I always got to get in. I'm getting carded now. You know, it's ridiculous. Oh, good. You should say thank you. Well, no, it's just the way it is out here. So, so it's 16 and a half. So, you go out with your, you tell your parents you're going out with a good friend. Yup. But you did go out with them or didn't? We went out. Okay. We went to the bitter end west dancing. Granada Hills is like way out in the valley, right? Way out. Yeah. North. Okay. So we go out and all of a sudden, like all these guys were hitting on me and I. Well, you're jail bait. Well, I'd been there before. This wasn't the first time I was there. And so. And you hooked up with guys? No, I hadn't. Okay. So this night I decided I would. Did you make a decision before you went? Like I'm losing my virginity? No. No. Did you even think of it like virginity? No. I'm just going to, I'm going to see what it's about. I'm ready. Let's do this. Well, I knew, I knew certain things. I had a cousin that showed me, he had a boyfriend and he, he had me watch. He had you watch him perform sex on his boyfriend or also? The, the. The boyfriend. He said, come here Richard. The boyfriend was on top. So. So you're watching. The boyfriend was the more performance. So the boyfriend was having anal sex with your cousin. Oh yeah. And the boyfriend was on top of your cousin. Oh yeah. And he just wanted to show you this. Yeah. Remember the good old days when people showed you their baseball card collection or, you know, their, their crazy, what were those wacky packs? Yeah, well, my cousin was not, he was pretty interesting. How old were you? 16. 16. Okay. Cause like some would call that abuse. Well, I talked to a therapist about that, that, I mean, I was not concerned it was abuse, but because we were, everyone was kind of young. It's just, yeah. And the boundaries too. Yes. I mean, he's a cousin and. Yeah. There are people who would say it wasn't the best thing for me. So you, was this a regular occurrence, these shows? No. Okay. So it was one time. Yeah. So you got out of the hospital? Yeah. And what happened? Well, no, he, he, he, later on he videoed some things that he showed me that I would have rather not have seen. Yeah. So there's something that seems kind of abusive, especially if you didn't really want to see it. Yeah. I, I didn't have effective ways of taking care of myself back then. But also, you know, I think that no one does at 16. No. And we're run by hormones. I didn't know what. Yeah, probably some of it was okay to, you know. What was he showing you? The videos? Yeah, I mean, were they like fucking dogs or, I mean. No, it was. What's going on? He had someone come over and the camera was focused right where penetration happened. I don't know how he rigged it up like that. You're talking the butt. The butthole. Oh, yeah. So this guy was getting, he's like, hey, take a look. Was this on Betamax? It must have been. Was it a flip book? It was a while ago. It was a long time ago. Craig's not around anymore. It probably been on film. What a shocker. Craig's not around anymore. Oh, that's too bad. No, he. Fucked himself to death. Yeah, he got HIV and had AIDS and died, yes. Well, thanks for bringing us down. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, we could talk about Carrie Fisher again. No, no. No. So this guy introduced you to sex, basically. The night that I went to the Bitter End West. Yeah, how did we connect to him, the cousin? Well, we were. I had said you'd never had sex. And you were telling me that you were familiar with. I think that's, but this isn't part of directly to the Bitter End story, right? Your cousin? Or was he part of this? Well, actually, he introduced me to the friend who I went to the Bitter End with. Of course. That night. Oh, cousin Craig? Cousin Craig introduced me to Mark. Mark was who I was with. Okay. Like I said, there were numerous guys who were like hitting on me and I ended up leaving with one and I did not tell Mark. I just left. Why did you do that? I was 16 and a half and I didn't think about telling him. Were you drunk? I probably had a drink or two. Yeah. Okay. Who was the guy? I don't remember his name and it was the first time and it was awful. Why was it awful? Well, you know, just because someone's older doesn't mean they know what they're doing. And I don't know, older to me, you know, I was 16 and a half. If he was 20, I mean, he was still older. Yeah, it's weird that way. Yeah. You look at a 20 year old now, you're like, he's a punk. Right. For sure. And I expected him to know what he was doing and he didn't. And he didn't say, how's this feel? Is this okay? Are you having, you know, would you rather me blah, blah, blah. And it was not very fun. Did that affect you later in life? Yeah, I'd say it did. And how? Turned me into a top. Oh yeah. Okay. So he tore you to shreds basically. Yeah. Didn't even ask if, you know, did you have fun? Yeah. Yeah. It's, but like I said, it has to do with. I've thought about this. Go on. What were you going to say? Well, thinking that someone older knows what they're doing and it's just not true. And that everyone should always, if it doesn't feel good, say, hey, wait a minute. That doesn't feel good. Or, you know, hey, slow down. Or, you know, I didn't even know how to do that. So. Yeah. That's a really, that's a really rough way to get induced to sex. Obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I knew I was going to, I mean, I knew I was going there for that. Right. But. And I thought he was smoking hot. Did you ever see him again? No. And so you said you were kidnapped, but you really weren't truly kidnapped. He said he was going to take me back to my friend's house. Okay. And he never did. Where did he take you? Carson. Carson City. It's like on the way to Long Beach or something. Is that where he lived? Yep. And he, what do you happen? You guys were there all night? We were there all night. He said he had to leave, but he'd be back and that I could hang out with his roommates. And his roommates were a bunch of Latino, Latina drag queens. Was he? No. Oh, he was Latin. Yes. Is that your thing? Do you like Latin guys? Or it just happened? Yes. At the time I had a. He ruined that. I don't know if he did. Yeah. Yeah. See, like, I think this might sound crazy, but I think the introduction of sex should not be anything like that. It should be oral. You just work your way in. I don't even know. Work your way up to it. I don't remember if that's even. That counts as gay to me. I mean, if you're, you know, if you put it in your mouth, that's as gay as it gets, right? I mean, it's just as gay as behind. Am I wrong on this? You can correct me. Well, I don't call it gay. Is that insulting? Well. I don't mean it in an insulting way. I mean, like, two guys. And that's not my point. Do I consider oral sex sex? As gay. Yes. Right. It's sex. I consider that sex. I do, too. I know there's a president that did not consider that sex, but I do. I do, too. And I would say that would be, if I had to choose, I've thought about this. I think I would, that would be my entree. So, anyways, how did you get, and moving right along. Hey, you know what? If you're going to be vulnerable. Do you want to know how did I get home? Yeah. How did you get home? Okay. So, I'm hanging out with a bunch of drag queens when I'm 16 and a half. And he's not coming back. And I'm bored of hanging out with the drag queens. Yeah. And by the way, guys, just for you who don't know LA, if he were to do, like, a walk, if he were to walk back, you were in the valley? Where in the valley was your house? I lived in Woodland Hills. So, Woodland Hills to Carson, like, this would be, like, a three-day walk. I mean, in traffic, right? I mean, seriously. Yeah. Yeah. In traffic. It would be over an hour. Right. I mean, it could be an hour and a half. Oh, yeah. It's probably an hour and a half. And Carson's horrible. It's, like, industrial. Yeah. There's nothing cool about it. There's nothing hip. There are no clubs. I mean, I didn't know where Carson was. It was horrible. It's not, I mean, no offense if you live in Carson, but it's not really happening. No one's going to Carson to party. Right? So, anyways, how did you get home? Finally, I went and went to a pay phone. And called my house. And my mom answered the phone. And she said, where are you? I said, Carson. And she said, well, what are you doing? I said, well, I really want to come home, but I don't have any way to get home. She said, well, take a taxi. I said, well, I don't have money for a taxi. She said, well, we'll pay for it when you get here. And I said, great. And I did not realize, she did not tell me at this point, that she had called to talk to me at my friend Mark's house. And I wasn't there. And he was scared shitless because he thought maybe I was dead in a gutter somewhere in Hollywood. And he didn't know where I was. So, he told my mom, we were at a gay bar. And he doesn't know where I am. So, that's how they found out I was gay. So, it was Mark who told them. Yeah. And I was pissed at him. I didn't even realize, you know, what a horrible thing that I, you know, might have. So, you were more upset at Craig. At Mark. I mean, at Mark. Craig's the cousin of Mark's. For outing me then. Mark wasn't in the video with Craig though. No. Okay. Just want to get that clear. Mark was your age. How old, how much older was Craig? Craig is two, was two weeks younger than me. Okay. So, Craig and you are the same age. Craig was a troublemaker. He was troubled. He had some stuff. Some issues. You don't do that with your cousin if there's something. He, Craig. He must have been. Anyone who ever knew Craig knew he's pretty interesting type of guy. So, when you told me that when you were a kid, you wanted to. Oh, so, I actually, I am curious. So, how does that conversation go when you come home? And the taxi ride must have cost a fortune for that. Oh, yeah. I'm sure. So, what do they say when you get home? Well, I thought I was like going to be grounded for a year or something like that. And what they said was, we want you to go talk to somebody, which meant a therapist. And I said, okay. That didn't seem like a terrible punishment to me. So, I said, okay. Did they talk about you being gay? Well, no. They knew they were out of their league when it came to that. So, that's why they wanted me to go talk to someone. They didn't, they couldn't. They didn't say, we love you and, you know, and we don't, we just want you to be happy. There were no conversation. Yeah. No conversation. Yeah. They, they did want me to be happy and they weren't sure. They wanted to be sure there were, this was them trying everything they could to help me. This is like the 60s? Somewhere around there? 70, 72. Okay. So, how did you become? 73. Yeah. 72, 73. How did you end up being a hairstylist? I mean, you, or you said that, wait, you don't like being called a hairstylist. Is that right? No, that's cool. Oh, you do like that. Okay. I want to call you the right thing. You deserve it. So, you said you want to be a lawyer. So, how do you go from lawyer to hairstylist? And why didn't you go to college? Jewish family, dad's an optometrist. Happens. In the valley. Yeah, I know. So, there was a place that I worked in Woodland Hills called Solly's Deli. Yeah. Yes, I've heard of that. First, I was a busboy and then I was assistant deli man. And right next door was the most wild salon called the John Peters Salon. And everyone that worked there was beautiful and dressed amazing and had cool cars. And I was like, wow, what's this? And so. That was my entree into that world. You got seduced. Yeah. By the glamour. Yeah. Was there one moment that really clicked when you were like, it was almost like catnip, the fantasy of working there? Catnip. I had a crush on the lady who did the makeup there. Her name was Enid. And she asked me to be her assistant. And I didn't know what that meant. I thought I was helping her. And meanwhile, what it really meant was I was looking to have that as my profession. And so, some of the hairstylists in there had feelings about that. And they came up to me and said things like, if you go, we'll pay for you to go to beauty school if you come out and work for us. And I'm like, what are they saying to me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they all knew something I didn't realize at the time. And so I had some help ending up pushing me in that direction. I'm a little confused. So they saw in you something that you didn't necessarily yet see in yourself? Yeah, I wouldn't think about doing hair at that time. But they saw something about you and just your personality, the way you carried yourself? I never asked for input. But how did? And they, I guess when they see someone young that's interested in being in a salon, they want to... Groom you. Thank you. Something like that. Okay, sure. I was groomed. Yeah, so they brought you there. And that's a pretty good deal. And that was the number one salon, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's like the, they had three of them, I believe, you were telling me earlier. One in Beverly Hills. And one in Encino. Three of them, yep. And this was the Woodland Hills one. Yep. So they paid for your schooling? No, that's not how it turned out. Okay. Because I wasn't sure I wanted to actually work for them. So I wanted my options to be more open. What kind of regrets do you have today of not pursuing that law degree? Well, being right has got me in a lot of trouble. And I think attorneys have a little bit of a, you get paid to be right issue. And so I understand why it appealed to me at the time. So I don't know that I really have regrets about that. You've been doing this, we said, 40 years. Yep. Now, I almost feel like that deserves some kind of celebration, don't you? I mean, four decades of haircutting. I'm trying to reinvent myself at this point, actually. Is there ageism in salons like there is in the entertainment business? I try not notice. But there has to be. Right. But ultimately, isn't it really about skill and personality? I will hope that people would realize that years of doing hair or whatever means something in terms of skill. Yes. Longest client you've ever had? At least 35 years. Yeah? Oh, yeah. Do you still have that client? Oh, yeah. I have a few of them. And what is it do you think that makes a client? Are you like family? Would you say at a certain point? Is that what keeps them coming? I mean, besides they like what you're doing with your hair? I don't know if they would consider me family other than a confidant or someone that shares, they share their stuff with. But. Ever have anyone die in your chair? That's a fair question. You've been doing it 40 years. Anyone just collapse? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. What's the most uncomfortable thing you've had happen? Probably the most uncomfortable thing was, you know, when we cut everyone's hair, they're wearing a drape and usually when I'm done, I take off the drape and take the blow dryer and blow off the hair that's left around and I'd cut this woman's hair, took off the drape, start blowing off the hair and it looked like there was some hair that got stuck on the repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet repet sort of in her cleavage kind of. And so I'm blowing, it's not coming. And I went to pull it and she said, ouch. Oh, what were you pulling? She had a hairy chest. Oh. Needless to say, she didn't come back. I didn't know what to say. Oh my God. I was speechless. And she said, oh, you know, I used to get electrolysis and it seemed to bother, I stopped because it seemed to bother everyone else more than it did me. Oh my God. I said, okay. What else? I don't know if you can beat that, but that's a good one. Well, I used to do these Persian sisters. One of them was from the first story. No. We love Persian women. And they were lovely and they had excellent taste in clothes. And, you know. And they were all the designers and stuff. And one day they came in and head to toe designer, black everything. And I said to them, wow, what are you guys going to a black party or what's up? And they said, now remember this is like, you know, they're wearing Dior and Chanel and everything black. And they said, no, our father died. And we have to wear black for like three months or something like this. And that felt. Yeah, it was. And that was the last time you saw them. I don't know. That doesn't sound so terrible. I think pulling the hair off the chest. Yeah, that was probably. That's horrible. You get hit on a lot as a salon guy. And is that, did you ever feel like that was part of the job that you must satisfy a man or woman sexually as part of your services? No. Do you think that does occur? That's. I personally. I've heard stories. Yeah. Is there a rule not to sleep with your customers or anything goes? Well, you know, it's a free world. Everyone can do what they want. I think it's bad business. It's not very professional. And there are how many people in the world to pick from and, you know. No, I agree. I don't, you know, but it just seems that you hear these like stories, you know, he ran off with his hairstylist or her stylist. She ran off with her. Oh, yeah. You know, there's an intimate relationship there. You know, you're connecting in a way. You're touching them and their hair. You know, you're physically touching them. And then they also often open up. Has anyone ever confessed something? You were just shocked and you kind of were like, okay, then. I don't think I, I mean, but it's me. I've heard a lot of stuff. I don't really. Nothing was ever shocking. I don't remember. No. Well, no. The closest thing, but the client didn't tell me. Okay. I once or twice blew dry Betsy Bloomingdale's hair. Mrs. Bloomingdale, like Bloomingdale's? Yes. Like the department store. Yes. Wow. Wow. And I had told someone or someone. And. I had told someone. That there was a rumor that she was a murderess. There was a rumor that you had. She. Yeah. Betsy Bloomingdale. Was a, there was a rumor. Murderess. What is a murderess? She killed her husband. There was a rumor of that. That's what I was told. And you blew dry her hair. And now the rumor perpetuates. I just perpetuated the rumor I had heard. But that was a long time ago. Well, it didn't. I'm trying to like backtrack this a little. To help you out. Yeah. It was just a rumor. I can't help what I heard. That's right. But you hear a lot of things. I hear a lot of things. You asked what was the. The craziest. Yeah. That's what I heard. Wow. Okay. Well, that was. And it didn't. It didn't stop me. Alleged. Alleged. And it's just rumor. We got to protect ourselves here. Oh. Right. Alleged murderess. And you know, people just talk. Okay. What's the proper way to break up with a hairstylist? What would be ideal for me? Yes. Um. It's happened twice. And I mean as client. Yes. Not in a relationship. Yes. Okay. It's happened twice. Um. Once a husband and wife moved to San Diego and they wrote me a letter and they said we won't be back. Thank you for all the great haircuts, but we're moving. And then one other time it happened. Um. A client told me she was moving to Rio to take samba lessons. She didn't know they can. You know, they teach them here. Um. I think that was. Not the bride. Not the bride. Not the bride. That was a Dear John letter. Oh, okay. But in both cases, I didn't have to ruminate in my head of what could possibly have happened or what did I say or do or, you know, there was some closure, which was really great. And it's something that is very rare in my business. No one says bye, thanks for everything. Well, it's very awkward because as someone who used to have hair, which means used to have someone I'd go to. Right. Right. You know, usually I would change because I had an issue with the person. Like, you know, the first time I would get my haircut, they wanted to prove themselves. They were very attentive. Sure. They really want to do a great job. Right. The second time, similar feelings. But like, you know, you get to the third or fourth time, it's like they take you for granted. I always felt you're not, there's not the same effort as that first time. Right. So I'll move on. And I don't want to tell them that. I don't want to say, hey, Bob, you know, I really. Just what I shared with you. Well, the one who told me she was moving to Brazil, to Rio for Samba lessons. That was her way of saying she was over me. Okay. Without saying she was over me. But for all of you watching and listening, Richard's here saying, let your hairstylist know you're moving on. What if it is because they're unhappy with the person and they just want to move on? I mean. Well, I mean. That's awkward to say why. You don't. I mean, someone can say my cousin just graduated beauty school or I found someone closer. They don't have to say the truth. But just to let them know, let you know they didn't vanish. They weren't killed in a car accident or I don't know, you know, that they're okay. And maybe I'm sensitive or something and think about people and where they've been. But I've checked in with people before. I've said, you know, hey, I haven't seen you for a while and hope everything's okay. If there's something I could do. And sometimes people haven't gotten back to me. What are the biggest mistakes you think men and women are making these days style wise with their hair? That just drives you crazy. Are there, is there anything that comes to mind right off the bat? Well, I think it's always been everyone wants to stuff everyone. Most people. Most people are interested in having hair of somebody else. And they're not looking for a style that looks great on them. They're looking for a style that's great on Jennifer Lawrence or some other actor or actress. And, you know, that gets a little tricky to try and explain to them that that's not the best thing for them. But being diplomatic is something I've skill I've had to acquire. And how, how has the business changed in 40 years? Well, you know, honestly, it really has. I got to be the biggest diva in the world. And so all of us were, we were just bitchy and we'd run late. We'd smoke cigarettes at our station and stuff. And we'd be doing drugs and. What kind of drugs? Coke, smoking. We drink sometimes. While working? Yeah. You do Coke while you're working? Yeah. Not in front of them. No. You never had a client? There are people who, hairstylists that would come back to the, do their clients. And there was like white around their nose. They didn't look in the mirror before they. Right. Came out. Yeah. And the owner didn't care? I don't know that the owner knew because if the owner knew, the owner would have cared. Yes. Okay. This went on when probably the owner was not around. So this was going on 70s, 80s, 90s? Oh yeah. We had someone come and deliver cocaine almost every day. We'd split up grams and stuff. Like it was milk? Oh, the milkman would come. Absolutely. Eben. Eben was our dealer. And what was he bringing? Just Coke? At that time, yes. Just Coke. And everyone was on it? There were probably about 10 of us. Yeah. And. I mean, that's just mind boggling to me. I guess I'm really naive. It was part of what we did. It just, everyone did it. It seems kind of crazy now, but you know, that's how it was. And were people ODing? I mean, were you having hair styles drop at their stations? No, that never happened. Right. So it wasn't, even though it was crazy. I mean, after hours got probably a little wild. What would happen in the salon when the doors closed? I mean, people having sex at their stations. Things went on, sure. Like what? What kind of things? You know, I can't, I never did anything, but I was aware of things. Like what? Oh, there were people having sex in the salon, sure. All the time? Not every day. Right. So it was hedonism. There was as much. Yeah, that was the era of all that stuff. But what about heroin? Anything? Any needles in the place? There was a guy who, God bless him, and God rest his soul. I had a feeling. Angelo. He would fall asleep while he was working on clients. Cutting hair? Cutting, blow drying, whatever he was doing. And you know what? They didn't care, and they would sit there, and they wouldn't even say to him, are you okay? I couldn't believe what I was seeing half the time. And he was doped out? He had the heroin? Oh, totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. It was heroin. I know. Was he smoking it or shooting it or what? Well, his favorite thing was like Belucci, you know. Cocaine? Cocaine and heroin up your nose, one side each. I forgot the name of it. Jeremy, are you there? Jeremy would be able to tell us. Jeremy's an expert on that. I actually have never heard that before, but. But you're interested to know. Yeah, one side's heroin. Yeah, that sounds great. I don't know if you've heard of heroin. One side's cocaine. That's a speedball or something? Speedball. Yeah, that's Jeremy, everyone. There you go. If you haven't heard Jeremy before, he runs a joint. This is his studio. Exactly. Thank you, Jeremy. Yes. No problem. Yeah, I tried that once. I was in Vegas with him. We went to a hair show. You were with Angelo? Angelo, yeah. And you did a speedball with him? Yeah, I tried it. Oh, I always tried whatever. You know, that's dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like people that used to be dangerous. When's the last time you've done coke? God. What day? Today's Tuesday. It's been a long time. Really? You don't do drugs? No. What do you do for fun? What's your fun? What's your vice today? My vice today? Yoga? Seriously? Have the salons changed now? We're like, it's just not like that anymore? The party atmosphere is gone? Yeah. Yeah, I don't think that's attracted to clients at all. I'm sure there's some salons that serve glasses of wine and stuff, but I don't think the stylists are supposed to be the ones drinking that. But you're not being dramatic when you say that every day you had a guy come in, the same guy dealing coke to the stylist. I'm not being dramatic. And like Monday through Friday. Every day. Well, we don't work that out. We don't work that out. We don't work that out. We don't work that out. We don't work that out. We don't work that out. We don't work on Mondays. Okay. We're Tuesday through Saturday. Is this in Beverly Hills? Saturday is our busy day. Was that the Beverly Hills salon? On Rodeo Drive. Nice. This was the which salon? The- Allen Edwards. Is that still here? No, no. Allen doesn't have a salon anymore. Is he still alive? Yes, he is. He's done quite well, correct? I mean, he had his own products too, didn't he? Did he have his own? He used to have mall. He used to be in all the malls too. Yeah. So does that make you sad? That the, or have you grown up in, as the salons have grown up? In other words, it's had its day. Well, I had my chaos and dramas at that time that I was not looking to participate in. I had Uncle Al, who I was talking about before. Yeah. Pulled up at that Rodeo Drive salon when I was managing. And he came in and he, we had a little lunchroom. Yeah. And we had a microwave in there and he wanted to cook cocaine in it, in the microwave, and then go outside and smoke it in a pipe in the car. In what year is this? 80, 85, 86, something like that. And did you let him? Let him? I told him he couldn't do it, but that's like, that's daring him to, that's the worst thing in the world. I said, Uncle Al, you cannot do that. What is, you know, I know what macaroni and cheese smells like when it's in the microwave. What does Coke smell like when it's in the microwave? I was so scared that we were going to get caught. But wouldn't you be also breathing? The last thing I was doing was looking to see how it was smelling. But didn't it fill the whole room? I mean. I don't remember that. So he did go out and smoke it? Cooked it in the microwave, took it outside. I went out with him to make sure. The only tool I had at the time to take care of myself. I don't remember. I don't remember. I remember myself was making sure that he didn't get caught, that we didn't get caught. And there he was in his car and, you know. What kind of car? It was like a big Caddy? Something like that. And, you know, when you do too much of that, you get paranoid. Uh-huh. Okay. Now I don't know that, but okay. Oh, yeah. And that's what happened. He started smoking that and he was. Running in the salon? Yeah. Thinking that people were around. And I was like, I'm out of here. And that was it. What do you mean? I'm out of here. You mean he's out of here. He's. He was off my list. You tell me you are no longer welcome here. But I wouldn't stop him. I sort of basically stopped talking to him after that. Yeah. That's probably a good thing. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. So we are out of time. Oh. Okay. I mean, it just blew by. Little did I know that an hour was going to run by that quick. I mean, it's just like fantastic. Cool. There's so much about you, Richard. Isn't he great? Now, let's say someone wants to get their hair cut. They've either. They live here in L.A. Or they're just visiting. How do they find you? James Kendall Salon, Beverly Hills. James Kendall. That sounds like a fine line. I think you said that at the top of the show. K-E-N-D-A-L-L. It's on Brighton Way in Beverly Hills. And. I have a telephone number. There's also a website. No, we don't want to give you a number. Because a lot of people are listening to this. And we don't want. There's a website. JamesKendallSalon.com. Do you have an email? Or are you on Twitter or anything like that? Or Facebook? My personal email is BP. Pampered at ATT.net. B-E-P-A-M-P-E-R-E-D at ATT.net. Is there anything we've missed? Is there something that you were hoping to share that maybe we didn't get? Yeah, that's my new focus today. What? I'm pampering my clients. As opposed to what? Getting high in the back? It was all about me before. Now it's all about them. Really? Really. How is it all about you? What do you mean by that? How did it used to be all about me? Oh, I had to prove I knew what they should have. Or I was in charge of the whole thing. And, you know, it's just not that way anymore. And that was really the, as you kind of mentioned a little earlier, that was the way it was done. Kind of, yeah. It really was. You go in there and you get a little. We told them, yeah, this is what you're having and that's it. And you're going to like it. And they kind of liked being, because a lot of these people are very powerful, right? Yeah. They like to be treated like that. That didn't really offend anyone. That's how we talked to them. And it got to a point there, that's not what they were looking for anymore. Right. So you got to change with the times. Hopefully. So be pampered means what? Don't. Come and be pampered. You give them a little wine if they want it? You have some wine? Whatever they want. Except cocaine. No, no drugs. Right. Because Al's gone. Al's gone. Al's left. Angelo's dead. A lot of dead people. They're all, yeah, we talked about a couple of dead people. Well, thank God you're alive. Here I am. And I just can't thank you enough, Richard. Thanks for your honesty. Thank you, Vic. Of course. You share some such interesting, colorful stories. Yeah, I think I have a few. I've heard that before. Well, I'm sure we probably just got about the tip of the iceberg. Oh, we haven't even gotten down to, no, I've got more. If you ever want me back, I got more. Okay, well, great. Well, you're fantastic. Thank you. Pleasure. Wasn't he great? Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate every time you join us, us, me, Jeremy. And please subscribe on iTunes. It's Vic Cones, It's a Fair Question. And that's the name of the show. And hopefully we'll see you soon. All righty. Thanks again. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair question. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair question. It's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair question, question, question. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.