Episode

Why are you laughing? Because we have a half-naked girl that's dancing to our intro music. Laying on the table. Laying on the table. And so for those who are not watching the video, which by the way, you may want to, instead of listening to this live, click on the video button and watch some video because there's vagina happening in the house. Welcome to Intellectual Kink, the home of the original fisting on Skid Row Studios. That is true. We did the first fisting at Skid Row. Now it's like so blasé. Fisting happens all the time. But you know, we were the first. And we have fisting. But not to be so brash as to jump right in and just slide the fist into the vagina. There's more to this. There's more to this. As I've heard Nancy... Oh, by the way, I am Insidious Muse. And I'm Service Slut. And we have guests. We have Andrew Arverio and Charlie Frown. Greetings and salutations. And then we have Sanger, who's our stunt vagina. Stunt cunt. Stunt cunt. That works so much better. And the reason we have more than... You know, because some people think it's fisting. It should be intimate. Just the fister and the fisty. But one of the things that Nancy and I have discovered over the years of teaching these fisting classes is that a fisting doula, a fisting doula, is really very important for the process. And you all will understand this as time goes by because you will start learning what Andrew is doing as a fisting doula, which we discussed over dinner. He's a lube provider. I had fish. He did have fish as if it was his aperitif to the fisting. Sanger and I had beef. So I don't know what to think of that. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Nancy had a fettuccine Alfredo, which I think we can all know what that means. So... I don't... It's creamy and please... It's creamy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And warm. Yeah. And you're going to go someplace creamy and warm right now. Yeah. And al dente. Are you al dente, Sanger? Yes. No, wait. Are you slightly undercooked? So you get a good mouth feel. It's important to have a good mouth feel. So let me start by saying that Nancy has never fisted Sanger. Right. Sanger has been fisted, correct? Yes. In her life. And Nancy clearly has fisted. In fact, Nancy has a motto where she wants to basically fist all of the friendly vaginas that she knows. Well, and I also want to give out participation ribbons for said vaginas. For those who have been, yes. I would say it looks like a fist, but, you know, there's, I don't know, there's this woman power thing that's a fist. I don't think you want to go with that. That's a little different from what you're saying. But so because this is their first time, I'm going to kind of walk through the general process that young Nancy does when she does the fisting. Don't be nervous. It's okay. She loves to, as she calls it, she likes to make love to the vagina. Your feet are so soft. And apparently. That's not the vagina. That's not the vagina. Notoriously. I mean, if I were saying it right now, I'd be concerned if she started off by me. If you were a male foot fetishist, I can understand how the feet might appear to be a vagina because they do like to fuck the feet. I get that. But this is not the show that we're doing right now. The fisting show. So that sound that you hear, if you hear it, is the snapping on of nitrile gloves. Two by two hands of blue. If you get the reference, I love you. Because they are going to start working on. The process. So, you know, we've had some wine and we had some friendly conversations. So we all feel comfortable here. But what Nancy generally does, instead of just, you know, start poking fingers in there, she'll start manipulating and fondling the clitoris and maybe feeling the labia and the outer labia to kind of, you know, get to know the canvas with which she is working. An assessment, if you will. To understand where the parts fall. I mean, all human bodies are different. This is true. So there's going to be a slight distance difference, maybe, you know, reaction difference. Exactly. Reaction is also very important because, you know, some things she will enjoy more. Now, as we know, Nancy is a submissive and she really enjoys giving people joy and pleasure, etc. So ensuring that whatever she's doing is pleasurable to the fistee is very important. And what's really cool also is that I can go jingle jingle on her, too. She has piercings. Oh, I so wish we had that one shot. It's so very festive. Jingle, jingle, jingle, jingle. It is, it is. Which is just in time for the holidays. It is festive. Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way. I can't do that and then like that other thing at the other same time. It's not my fault. Oh, I'm sorry. It is. I have conditioned her to grab. Her nipples in agonizing pain when she hears me sing Christmas carols. That is what Pavlov intended when he did that with the dogs. Just so you know. Um, so now that she's, I don't know, she's going through. Don't worry. Go through lots of gloves. We'll throw the go through gloves. Gloves are just a, you know, it's a prophylactic. It's like the condom for your hands. So feel comfortable. Some people like the nice gentle caress of a glove. This is true. This is true. And then there are a lot of people, especially if. They're both in the top and the bottom. Some people really like that snap. I, I'm a big fan of doing it because then it elicits often a response. I like snap. I fail at the snap. Oh see, it's, it's the, the key is to under where the palm is. Pull down. It's the, it's the, don't pull away. You're only going to hurt yourself. Pull down. Yes. Which is okay. It's okay to hurt yourself. Um, so now what Nancy is doing is she is, you know, just like I said, getting. Yeah. She's getting to know. And if you're on video, you, you could see. I'm panning. I'm panning down. A little smile of Sanger's face. And now you will see Nancy's fingers towards her vagina. So she's and she presses the clitoris like a fucking belly button or like a, like a doorbell, which I totally. Well, I like to be polite when I'm going into. That's not polite. Um, it's better than, uh, it's better than doing a cop knock on the clitoris. Take it from someone who knows. All right. The cop. That's a bad thing to do. Well, some people would like that. I actually anticipate Sanger would like that. Just knowing that she's a bit of a pain slut, just a teeny bit. Um, so, uh, what, when, when you're dealing with, with fisting, when you're negotiating with the person, what you want to do is let's say, you know, maybe they've never had a fisting. So when you're going through the process, make sure that you have adequate amounts of lube and make sure that you've asked them if they have a preference for kind of lube. And I asked Sanger earlier, do you prefer water based or water based? I said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? Right? And we have, you know, the other, you know, are you okay? I think she's having a positive reaction to this. It seems as though the single finger insertion method that you're using now is working well. She seems to be enjoying it. If I can color commentary, the hand up position, the palm up position allows her to move, I believe, your middle finger up towards what the G spot is. And that actually is very helpful for my carpal tunnel. No, agreed. Agreed. The one note that I would make, not only with asking for preference for lubricant, is asking for preference for type of glove. Because sometimes people are allergic to things like latex. So you need to make sure before you get in there that you're not going to cause it to be all burny and hateful. Yes. Burny and hateful. So, I mean, I did specify that these are nitrile gloves, which is what I use and what most medical professionals now do use. Because, you know, there is a, I can't remember actually what the percentage of people with latex allergies are. But, you know, it's there. And when it happens, things start, you know, getting high and swelly. And it's not good. That's not the reaction you want is high V and swelly. No. But you want the reaction that Sanger is giving now where she's raising her hips and bucking them just a little bit. This is definitely not a high V kind of situation. We're going to pan to the face. There's no high V. This is a very different thing. I think she's enjoying it. Yeah. And this is obviously prior to the fisting experience. Because this is just, you know, you're just playing with a vagina. This is how it starts. You get in there. You figure out, is it a friendly vagina? Does it welcome you? Does it have an outpouring of... Precisely. I ring the bell beforehand. That's not... Whatever. Are you hoping a butler will answer? Right? That would be really weird. Would an alien come out? I don't... You rang, madam. No, no, no. But, you know, some vaginas don't have a lot of natural lubrication. So this is the point when you're putting one finger in, when you're assessing the amount of natural lubrication. Sure. And I would wager, is this accurate? Does she have a lot of her own natural lubrication? Because she's... I think she's trying to fuck your hand with her hands. Well, I can definitely smell her juices, which... It means they're there. It's a very pleasant smell. We've gone to video, but we've yet to get a smell-o-vision here at Skid Row Studios. Right. That would be... Wow. New frontier. Well, then we should be thankful it's not anal fisting. Indeed. Because that is a different kind of smell-o-vision, which we don't want to get into. Although I have a lot of anal toys. Out in here that I got at this time. Promises, promises. I'll stick things in your butt. Well, Sanger is very... Wow, the arching of the back. Yeah, it's very... She's good for video. For those yoga fans out there, it's very cow tilt to cat tilt. No, you can't see... I don't know how many fingers, because Sanger's... Two fingers. Sanger is putting her leg up and blocking my view. I mean, is there a timing consideration? The timing consideration you keep into account as you begin to add fingers. I mean, I think that's... I think it really depends a lot on the person. Sure. You know? So I go at their speed. You know, whatever... But how do you assess, I think, is the question. At what point are you like, I'm okay for three? She welcomed the second finger. Okay. You know? So, like, I mean, I start with one finger because, well, that's polite. Does your one finger wear a bow tie? Does it bring up a flower? Right? But I start with my index finger because it's the polite finger. And when I say start, I mean that's the second finger in, because obviously the middle finger's already in. People find there's something really poetic about using my middle finger. Hold on. So you go middle finger to ring finger? I'm sorry. Middle finger to index finger? Yeah. So she starts with middle. See, that's interesting because I'll typically go middle finger to ring finger. Huh. I would go... I'll go with that. Huh. That's interesting. I would probably follow suit and go to the pointer as well simply because it gives you more... If you're going to the fisting, it gives you more real estate. It's easier to add in the ring finger and then the pinky and then the thumb at some point. It's... I mean, I guess you can. Well, maybe... Oh, see, I'll go middle finger, ring finger, pointer finger, pinky, and then thumb. Well, see, kids... That'll be my... That'll be my order. The point is that you... You know what? Pick the fingers that work for you. If you want to start with your pointer and then add from there or you want to start from your ring... You know, it's all up to you. We're not saying that this is a formula. No, I'm more curious in what Nancy's formula is. How much is in her vagina? Because the look on your face, Nancy, is like... Oh, no. That was my back. Oh. What is... Well, and I'm also trying to balance our conversation with giving her pleasure. I think the pleasure part's working. Yeah, that's... I think that... I think the... I think the pleasure part is... Yeah, that appears to be working. When you're doing it, you know, you start with one finger and you slide and then the other finger. It's a lot like just kind of generally finger fucking. If you want to use your thumb to stimulate the clitoris, fantastic. It'll help stimulate more natural lubricant before you go to the point where you actually need lube, external lube. Don't be stingy with lube if you're concerned or if they're concerned or they're not enjoying themselves. I would like some lube, FYI. Well, we need the fisting duel at this point to bring the lube. So the... You... Don't be stingy with the lube and also, you know, take your time. We obviously have a finite amount of time in this show. I mean, it's not in the next five minutes, but we have a finite amount of time in the show. But if you're just playing with a play partner or... I wish I had the liquid. I don't know why. I just had the jelly in my bag. So if you're playing with a play partner, take your time. You know, really, if it's a pleasurable experience, you're not trying to make this kind of a sadistic experience. Take time and really enjoy the vagina, all of the aspects of it and the reactions that... So what I've added now is my thumb. Okay. So are we still pinkies out? Yes. Okay. We're still... You go pinky last. So do you have middle finger, pointer, thumb? So you have three fingers in. Oh, no. Not thumb joints. So I can go this, this, this, and then I tuck these in? Okay. And then I go in. Oh, really? Okay. So she has her ring finger and her pinky fingers are still folded over while she's like shooting a gun into her vagina. Well, I mean, the other reason that it's important to take your time and interesting biological fact, you know, the uterus actually moves back as you become more sexually aroused. There you go. I did some research on measuring depth of uterus and I found out that it actually changes between the time before you're aroused and when you're aroused because your uterus prepares you to accept your partner's member. You can say the word penis. You can even say cock. I'm wearing rubber gloves and would prefer to be as clinical as possible. I've got a responsibility in this show. Because of gloves? And because of that, I take it very seriously. All right. Well, I didn't... I was unaware that the gloves were something. I mean, I've got... I'm running doula duty. Yes, I think... I'm running camera duty. Now we're sitting up. Yes. Well, you're... I'm color commentating. You are a good multitasker. I'm attempting to. Fantastic. It's good. Okay. Now we're up. She is raising herself up entirely off of the table on her feet and her hands. Kind of like, you know, that little crab crawl you used to do when you were a kid? That's what she's trying to do. But she has a hand in her vagina because she's a muppet. I am no longer moving my hand. She is kind of impaling herself on it. Okay. I mean, less work for you, which is nice. Well, I want to make sure that my hand is tucked very tightly. Yeah. So that way... So have you then... Have you assumed the fisting... The fisting position where all your fingers are properly in and she is the one that is riding your hand? We need more lube. Oh. More lube. Well, that... Just so you know, that is not always the case. I mean, Nancy has very small hands. But most people will, especially if it's their first time, will give you reactions, obviously, for pleasure. But there are going to be moments of pain because, you know, you're stretching them out. And the vagina, you know, if you're traditionally just fucking it with a penis, is not taking an entire fist every single time. You're going to feel a little pressure here. Yes. Is what you want to tell your partner. There's going to be some pressure. Yeah. You totally want to take all of the sexuality out of it. That's what you want to do. Exactly. I want to turn it into a gynecological exam. That sounds... I have a speculum. Yeah. Exactly. We can also do a speculum and an anal speculum. We can do it all at the same time. I have to clean them, though. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I feel like we should... The microphone so we can hear her. She's really... I sort of tried to place a microphone. Yeah, it's near her, but you know. In and around. People notoriously are... You know, they don't pay attention to these really important things when they're having a fist in the vagina. She's giving you the hold. She's giving you the hold thing. Hold. Do you have your whole fist in there? Yes, but it's not... It's just... You don't have the thumb joint? I'm not moving. So, additionally, when you're fisting your partner, breathing actually is important. Yeah, breathing is important to remember. I think fisting the vagina is, you know, working out is anything else. The breathing is very important to continue to do. For the bottom, it does help you deal with any pain that you're having, pressure. Processing, sure. And also relaxing kind of the whole vagina. Vaginal walls. Definitely. In order to receive it. Now, what is additionally helping with that, Sangra is... She is playing with her clit. And now Nancy is now taking over that job. And that is going to help. She's going to naturally relax and she's going to have additional mucus exuding from her walls in order to make it a little bit easier. And Sangra's really giving effective communication. She is. She could do so with simply her facial expressions. Yes. She's definitely got that going. She's definitely got that going. And the fact, I really like that Sangra reached down and just started touching her own clit, which is really, it's very empowering. So you want to have that kind of communication with your partners so that they're comfortable doing that. And it gives permission for, I mean, it tells Nancy, it sort of gives Nancy the roadmap to what's going to work for her. Right. Well, I think a lot works for Sangra. She seems very amiable to everything. Yes. She seems, she seems the, the, the question, yeah, doesn't seem to be. Yeah. There was. Don't break our studio. There's some violent shaking going on. There was, but we don't know why. There might've been some sort of seismic. She's got that look on her face, which is that pleasure pain thing, which we all know so well. Yeah. It's really fucking hot actually. That is a nice sound. I have to say. And there, there was the, the excited um that you get. Holy fuck. Yeah. I think. The, the, the hitched breath um. And religious, uh, you know, screams generally are very, very good. Anytime I can add religious iconography into this. I agree. Quite. Accepting. Yes. And now we are calling to Jesus as is appropriate because Christmas is coming. Right. So. Christmas is coming and apparently so is Sangra. She is going to come for Christmas because she's saying Jesus. Oh. It's important to make the note that that's with an O. Well, no, it's actually with a U. I understand that you and Sangra do not like O's. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's going to be with an O momentarily. It's true. Big O. Bam. Oh, I love Andrew. Up high on that. I don't know what's happening over there, but like she's kind of in an upright fetal position, but like in a good way. There's some, there's some nodding. There's some nodding. I'm pretty sure I've seen pregnant women do that position when they're trying to birth. It's very like the. Crowning the baby. It's very the white guy rocker thing where you just nod your head along with the music. You're like, yes. Right. Yes. This rocks so hard. I don't think she can do metal fingers. Yeah. No. She's with us on that. There's a lot going on. So how are we thumb join in? I think we're, I think we're full. I mean, I think we're like. You'd be surprised. We're, we're, we're at the place where you need to really check your watch strap. She isn't wearing a watch, thankfully. No, that's. And that is, that is an important note to anyone out there. Watches off, rings off. No one, no one wants just. The focus. The focus on Nancy's face right now. Oh, oh. Is the intensity of the focus. The shaking, the, the shaking singer's face was shaking everywhere. It was awesome. Yeah. And oh, this is awesome. I love watching this. There's some. Oh, and oh, she's, oh, she's loving that. I think, no, I think, and I think it's interesting that sort of singer's gotten to a place where she needs the physical contact of Nancy while this happens. Like she sort of wants that physical closeness. Well, and interesting if you go all the way back to Massachusetts Johnson studies where the. Yeah. You know, you're having involuntary muscle reactions when you're having like orgasms or heightened sexual. They really are involuntary. That kind of sense to reach out and grab something. That's just one of those things that happens in your body. Your muscles just kind of tense up and it's a beautiful, wonderful thing. Masters in Johnson. That's where the intellectual and intellectual kink comes from folks. I love this shit. I fucking read this shit all the time. It's why I tweet all these like studies all the time. So I think, I think we're now having resolution. Calming, calming a little bit. So she's, she's a soothing. We may have, we may be towards the denouement of the fisting if you. Correct. Well, I mean, I imagine we could probably do it again. I don't know. She's mouthing like I'm going to hear her cause I have headphones on. Singer's eyes are a little bit dewy right now. It's fantastic. It seems as though there may have been. Oh, and we're out. We're out. The fist is out. We're exited. Yeah, but don't, don't get dressed. Cause. We could do it again. And glistening, and glistening if you will. I'm like, don't get dressed. We could do it again. Um. And now she wants to thank her. And. Oh, and there's hugs. The gentle, the gentle wiping, uh, or blotting of a sweat from Nancy's brow. So, so let me note, I just want everybody out there to note that Sanger has been fisted before number one and probably by a man, not just a woman and no, by a woman only. But um. Oh, uh, not a. Okay. Well, but, and. Multiple women at the same time. That's what you're implying. Well, and my point is that Nancy has really small hands. So I don't want people out there that have never been fisted or have never fisted anybody to have an expectation that the first time 15 minutes in, you're going to get your fist in somebody because that's, that's not the case. Uh. Yeah, we're almost 25 minutes in. I don't think we started dead. I mean, well, I guess maybe. She started to go to work pretty early there. Now Sanger wants a cigarette. Um, so the, the point being the likelihood is that you're going to have to try multiple times before you actually slide the fist in and that it's better to err on the side of caution. That's just what I would say. No, I would entirely agree with you on that, on that matter. And I mean, really it needs to be something that you're both invested in, frankly. Yeah, absolutely. This isn't something that you talk your lady friend into in the middle of foreplay. Or you don't just like go for it. Like, yeah, we're going to do like, what the fuck are you doing? That is not going to happen. Yeah, no, you don't suddenly go, hey, I'm in the finger four. Are we cool with going all the way? Okay. And then gritting their teeth because of intense pain. It's not a, it's not a renegotiation. So I would love it if Sanger would get on her headphones and get on the mic and we can ask her if she's coherent. You've already got on a fist. This should be easy for you. The experience of the thing here today. Kind of need to bring the mic close to you. Yeah, she's going to gently pull that over. Oh, is it on? I don't think it's on. No, it's on. She's just not speaking loudly. Hello. There you go. There it is. There it is. Good. Wait. Okay. Hi. Hi. Hey, so how are you? No, seriously. Check your box. We're joking. It was, he was color commentary. I'm so horrible at this. Fine. Fine? Yeah. Yeah. I am. Hair is fine. We need more details than that. Things seem to be inexplicable right now. I am inexplicable? No. No. No. No. No. The events that happened. That was awesome. That was lovely. Why do we do that all the time? I know you would like to be fisting most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, you know, can you talk about like what it feels like to have that happen? Yes. Because I think some... There's a lot of fear. Does it feel like there's a person's hand in your vagina? I don't know. no I mean cognitively you get what's going on if you for a moment it's incredibly full it's like extra big what about that fullness do you enjoy because I think for people who have a partner that are interested in fisting them the concern is okay what am I enjoying about this like how why is this appealing to me talk about why that feeling of fullness is good I think it's it's not the usual sort of fucking it's much I'm not it seems like it's more intimate in many ways it is somewhat more intimate I think you could I took the headphones off because I was kind of giggling at how like sports castery and then well I was brought in for a color I recall dinner I think it's not expected that you're going to be able to one is going to just was there a sense of accomplishment were you just like no she hasn't gotten there yet it wasn't like mountain climbing it's a sort of I've visited it because it was there that kind of a thing oh I the he I mean it was the first I didn't know yeah but you took a fist because it was there because it was there like you took that take all of the fists I okay so that would get me off on some fucked up tangent like you know we don't have to evaluate things that way or judge them and you know if you like it and you have consent negotiation all that kind of stuff I could say right but I think the fullness and the kind of the god damn it visceral is it is it the visceral nature of like what's is it sort of it's incredibly it's extra visceral in a sense because it's not something you feel all the time sure it's not but do you sort of get to a like sort of an adrenaline endorphin like very instinctual like animalistic level at some point maybe okay I mean because at some point I'm just like it's all feel it's just all feel and it's I mean it's the same kind of thing why I like painting so much it's just it's so much big feel good you know like there's it's it's an exclamation point it's not a period it's not an ellipses it's not a a colon or a semicolon it's like the exclamation point it's yelling at you no it's paint it's not even words okay it's pigment beyond paint it's colors and like yeah it doesn't have that kind of boundary okay I can wax poetic on this shit it intensifies it's it's that sense of just kind of everything like everything's completely heightened and you have that sense of hyper awareness in those areas for me it goes all over like it's not just like cunt at that point it's all the way up to my shoulders and hairline and and and! rape her. Cuddle rape. I don't think that's Because rape cuddle is a completely different thing. Cuddle rape. That's a different sentence. Cuddle rape. Allow me to remind you of something that you said one time, Ms. Nancy, and that was that one of the reasons that you really like fisting is that when your fist is inside of somebody, there is such an intense connection. It's not just you're reading the person, but you can feel every involuntary reaction through their vagina and then it, therefore, you're sharing, you're sharing that moment with that person. Yes, exactly. And that's exactly what I meant by the intimacy. So when you make reference to a puppet, is there a control aspect that you enjoy from it? No, I was being silly. But I mean, that kind of metaphor, I mean, it sort of speaks directly to you're a puppet. I have the capability of making you do things. Well, you can play like that, but that's not how she does it. She's very service fisty. Sure, no, and that's why I'm asking. And it should be noted for those, you can service fist and you can control fist. You can puppet fist, which are totally different. Yeah, so I'm not in the business of puppet fisting. It's not a... That's an entirely different podcast. Puppet fisters. It's not a topping situation for me. It's a sex situation. Or if you're in England, puppet fisters. Oh, Jesus. So, yeah, you know, the comment about a puppet. I mean, that's just me being silly. I just, you know, no. We had sex, FYI. Yeah, I was there. We all were there. Technically, everybody listening was there. Y'all shared this. Was that an orgy? Does that qualify? No, because it's... No. Just watching. The point that I want to make is sex. She's making a point. Hold on, how do we lose? Because we were just watching. You don't lose. You just do it. Yeah, but I just can't fist. I fist too big. No, you just haven't found the right vagina yet. There is that. Yeah, no, I want... Oh, I want so bad. Yeesh. And so the point that I want to make about that with that comment is, you know, every vagina is different. And so, you know, some vaginas are very, very, very strong and can crush your hand. And, you know, yeah. So, I mean, it has nothing to do with the size, you know? I mean, it's a matter of, you know, does your hand and that vagina fit together like two muscle pieces? And in a lot of instances, there might not even be an attempt to crush your hand. An involuntary muscle spasm could cause... Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, the fact that, you know, you say your fist is too big, like I just, you know, you haven't found the right vagina. I also don't walk around asking everybody like you do, can I put my fist in your vagina? Perhaps I need to start doing it. No, but I think there's, I think there's an interesting conversation here because there's, I mean, it seems to be a prevalent discussion about the size of men's penises, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of discussion about the depth of women's vagina. What is that called, Ms. Andrew? The depth and elasticity of their vaginas. I would, I can, we can delve into this if you would like because I believe the average vagina is only like, well, before arousal. Before arousal, which is important. About three and a half inches deep. Obviously. After arousal, it has to get. And to my understanding, I've actually read, I think similar things to you. It's about three and a half inches deep and I think it's in, on average gets somewhere in the neighborhood of seven and a half to eight inches deep. Well, you, then, then there's me where they have to, the gynecologist has to get the extra long speculum to get to my cervix when I'm not aroused. So there's that. And we all learned a little bit something about insidious muse tonight. Why, why would you be aroused or not at a... I'm not. That's what I'm saying. So they, you know, because speculums, for me, unless I'm, I'm using them on somebody else, not arousing. So is there like an echo effect? No, because it's, it's very, it's just, it's just long. It's a very, it's like a, it's like a long, narrow hallway. That's what it is. Okay. But, you know, and my cervix, I only know this because of my IUD. It was a very unpleasant experience. So there's that. To that, I mean, I am cervix free. There is that. I stop. There's, it doesn't go anywhere because I've had the whole, total radical hysterectomy thing. So. But there's something there. I mean. Well, it's, there's a cuff. There you go. They sewed me up there. All right. They put an end. That works. Like a golem in your vagina. My favorite part. A golem? They said in unison. My precious? No, not, not a golem. That's what I thought. I'm sorry, a golem. I'm sorry. I should pronounce it. Oh, a golem. Sorry for my mispronunciation. A golem, you know, you know, like the, that clay. You know, the clay to make the man. It's like a doll. What? No, it just stops. So an animated Jewish statue? Yeah. Is it? I hope somebody else out there got this. A man is in your vagina. There's no man in my vagina. No, you put, you put like a little message telling him what to do in his mouth and then he carries out your will. And then, and then you don't have to have penis then because there's a man in your vagina. Always. Penis envy. Always. I like penis. I'm not. Sorry. Sorry. What? My, oh, that was fun. No, I was just gonna, I was just gonna say that, I was just, I was just gonna say that I've never had someone sit on my fist before. That was really hot actually. You were very new. You lifted your entire body up off of the table. Like you were riding her fist. And at one point, Nancy had to reinforce her situation by putting like, putting her elbow on the table. And just, just making sure that that was steady enough that all of you, didn't slide right off the table. Yes. Pretty much. You should like, do it professionally. Really just performed. Thanks. I think. Was it good for you? Cause I was a goner. Her fist ejaculated. I saw it. I did. I saw it too. There was pre-cum and everything. Fist ejaculation. It got all veiny and everything too. Wow. Just like you don't like. But it was blue so. My fist got all veiny. No, I meant. Yeah. Kay. I guess feeling good is just, it makes it good. I just move when it feels good and stuff. And I don't know. I'm ridiculously shameless. No, but I think. But that's awesome. Yeah. I think that the kind of the point that Insidious Muse is making is that that lack of self-consciousness, especially, you know, you're on a table in a studio with people giving color commentary and there's cameras and there's microphones and that lack, that lack of inhibition. But it comes from the intimacy. No. Agreed. But a lot of people. The rest of that comes from this is where my focus is. No. Allow me to counter that. I mean, I think Andrew's going in the same place. There are a lot of people, women specifically, which are not that uninhibited that for whatever reason, and there's actually been studies done on shame and sexuality, where there is such an intense amount of shame when a woman wants to be as free in their sexuality as you are, that they just can't do it. And the fact that you can speaks volumes to your, your own kind of your self-confidence, your, your own growth as a human being, your ability to take it like that. Just take control of it. And additionally, I would add that a lot of people, you, you, you made the comment about, you know, well, it's the intimacy of it allows me to let go in that, in that manner. A lot of people, I would argue to say the bulk of people would, would not be able to make this an intimate situation. Okay. But I was the one getting pissed. No. But that's, but we're also paying you a compliment. We're not paying any of them a compliment. Oh, true. We aren't. Um, thank you. Cause they're all prudest, prudish bitches. I like prudest. Prudest. They're prudest. They're prused. They're prused bitches. Oh, prused. No. Um, I think, fucking prused bitches. The kind of banter it was, at one point I checked out because I was like, I'm gonna get caught up on the fact that I don't have a uterus and I really want to be here. You know, like that was what, cause you were talking about. Being, being present. Sure. Well, he was talking about something else and I'd rather like, not focus. This is what I want to do. and that's an excellent point. Oh right, microphone talking too much. That's an excellent point in fisting in general and just sexuality in general is the idea to be present in the moment and not within expectation. So when you're fisting, let's say it's your first time, it's your second time, whatever. I get it. The goal is to get the fist in. I get that. But if that's your goal and then you're done, then you have to, you have to have not just a goal but kind of have an intention and an intent. What is the overall plan of it and be present in the moment and the pleasure that is happening or the control or whatever the intent is. And even to take that intent and be confident in the fact of like, you know, maybe time one through three, I'm going to have to bail out. Like maybe it's not going to work and be, and not walk away from that ashamed and not walk away from that, any of those things. We've got a raised hand in the corner. Yes, I'm sorry. Half of the show here. I didn't actually get my entire fist in there. Oh, okay. So, you know, and I'm saying that because the concern was more over the intimacy rather than getting the fist in. You know, and so I got in as much as I could. I mean, really what I got maybe like, I got like this and I got, I got yay. You got full duck bill. I got full duck bill. But you got past the thumb joint. Yes. Just not. But I could not make a fist. Because at that point, you know, you know, because, you know, vagina is like, nope, this is where you're going to stay. This is where you're going to stay. You ain't going nowhere else. And I mean, in order to go from here to a fist, there's a little bit, I have to open up a little bit in order to make a fist. And so that wasn't going to happen. But, you know, you have to pay attention to, to the person's body and where they're at. And I was really, I was more concerned with checking in with her because I thought, you know, I mean, is she okay? I get that she's, you know, experiencing pleasure, but I also want to make sure that that's not like, she's not writing because she's in pain or like that look on her face, like that, like sudden, like twitch is not because she's in pain. You know? So, I mean, to me, it's more, I've, I would rather say, hey, you know, I got a duck bill in there. I didn't get a fist, but hey, we had a good time. I think even if, oh, wow, we managed, I tickled your G spot with my middle finger, but we had a good time. That's like the goal line right there. It's not so much, you know, where's the notch on my leather cap If you're thinking about fisting and, and, you know, you don't get there, that's okay. It's totally fine. You know, it is. And I think that what people need to be aware, speaking to your point, Nancy, is that they're in, in a split second, a moment that is very pleasurable can turn very painful when you're dealing with such tight quarters as a fist and a vagina. It can become excruciating painful and then it can go one step further and become a tear. These things are very possible. So being, paying very close attention to your partner is really, really important. I would rather have my fist be in a pool of juices and not blood. Let me just tell you. What? And, but there's, I mean, yeah, and that's the, it's the, you know, the best outcome is that the partner that you're with as soon as you're, you get done is going to be enthusiastic and excited about doing whatever that thing that you're doing is again as soon as possible. Exactly. That's the best possible outcome. I doubt that there are a ton of the listeners in the world who are immediately throwing their hands up for, ooh, tearing sounds nice. Sign me up for a torn vagina. Right, right. Oh my God, I love that band. I hear they're playing second stage at Lollapalooza. No, that was it. I have no, no, come back to that. You were going to say something else. I don't think it was. I mean, I could come up with something, but probably not sure what happened before the band playing at Lollapalooza. It was the torn vagina? Torn vagina. Paying attention. Attention, yeah. And I think communication. I mean, every show you do is about communication. For sure. I mean, ultimately. And I think anything like kinky wise that you enter into or one enters into without any with shit. I have no fucking idea. Can we just, that was great. Can I just like say, oh, what? Negotiate ahead of time. Negotiating or even just having the sense like she and I are both experienced at what we do. Like I play, I've played for 20 years and that's okay. Nevermind. But obviously, I mean, I know, I think the first night I knew I met you, it was like, she'll face you. Okay. Pretty much. Okay. But, if she had a nom de plume, it would be she'll fist you. Oh. What? She'll fist you. If you had a nom de plume, it would be she'll fist you. Shell? Like a C-H-E-L-L-L? Shell fist you? We'll call her Shelly for sure. Which is to say, I wouldn't have like jumped on this bandwagon for, without knowing that you could read me or could read anybody or had some sense of, you know, how that dynamic worked, I guess. But, I think. I mean, I mean, I gotta tell you, I was a little bit nervous about tonight because, I mean, I, I didn't know. I was a little bit nervous about what, you know, what if I couldn't, what if I couldn't read, read you or, you know, because it's a radio show and then there's video and all there's lights and, you know, all this stuff. And I thought like, I don't know. I mean, it's someone, you know, here is very, very different from, you know, a play scene in a dungeon. It's very different. So, so I was worried. Why is it different? I think it's different because, you know, yeah, people are watching, but I think here it's just different because people are watching and it's, I guess, well, and here it is. To me, a scene, sorry, a scene is with people or persons with whom I'm playing and it's not, I get that, you know, you go to a party or you have cameras about, connected to the internet, that, but what is she laughing? What'd she do? I gave her, I gave her the proper spelling of shell fist you. For fuck's sake. Attention. Which is to say, I mean, I don't go out to a party to play necessarily for other people. I get that there are going to be other people around, but ultimately, the scene was you and I. Yes. You know. That's true. And, no, but I, to that point, I mean, crabby boys on the top of the Muppet. Oh, it's so right. There's, there's something. Oh, you mean Statler and, uh, uh, uh, Statler and Waldorf? Oh man. Wow. This is my favorite part of the show. The end. Wow. He looks like a Muppet that way. It's kind of creepy. Sorry. So the, the point is that when you're just engaging in the intimate act with somebody for the first time, for the second time, for the fifth time, for the 20th time, that's very different from when you're simultaneously educating. So I think that's, to Nancy's point, is that it's a little bit different here because it's, you know, you're kind of educating and I think that although we've done classes and it's, there's a lot of people there, that this had an additional component of intimacy that you lack in a very public class. Oh. Well, and you know, and there's, and here it's a lot of, you know, paying attention to you, obviously, but then also paying attention to the conversation and making sure I contribute. If we had done this at a dungeon, there would have been zero talking on my parts. A lot of eye contact and, you know, to make sure we're good, but there would have been. Well, there might, there might have been other things, like there might have been other things going on. There might have been, I mean, it's, there are very few times when you're in a private play space or a public play space where it's, there's like this single act that's happening. It's usually part of a broader, you know, there are going to be two or three things going on and there's going to be a progression and that's how those things are going to happen. This was very much like, so, like, no, and, or not. No, Nancy didn't, no, what I'm sort of talking about is it's, it's different in the sense that Nancy didn't really touch any part of your, other part of your body. Like, there wasn't, there wasn't a whole lot of prepping and priming for that other than, other than directly in the spot that she was operating. There wasn't a whole lot of physical intimacy. There wasn't a whole lot of verbal, like, verbal talk. Like, all I think about, you know, I have just my frame of reference of my play and the play that I've watched is those interactions tend to have, many more components than just specifically the act. And in this instance, that was pretty specifically about the act itself. Right, but I think there was communication whether or not it had words necessarily associated to. Oh, no, but I'm just saying that this, this is why, this is why Nancy would be nervous because that's probably a, a, a type of interaction. It, it usually, and feel free to, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that it would just sort of, it's a very rare time where it's just sort of, and we're going right to the fist. Right. Okay. Yeah. But time. So that's why she was nervous. Yeah, I know. Also, I mean, I guess, I don't get nervous about things like that. Cause I think I take responsibility for my own communication when it comes to that kind of things. Like, like, well, I didn't say you couldn't piss on me. Right? Right. I guess. That time I forgot to say that you can't piss on me. Yes. And I think, I mean, that's pretty key. That's pretty thing. Like, okay, well, you said we're going to do this at this point. Let's go do it. And I don't think I have any compunction saying, oh, hold on, make it. No, let's not do, you know, and I said, hang on a second. I knew I needed a moment to kind of catch up to shit. Which I loved. I loved that you did that because I, I love that you listened to me. Because the last thing I want to do is, is have you walk away and say, I never want to fucking have that girl do anything to me. Right. Right. I don't think, generally, I would blame you for my not speaking or speaking up or in some way, even saying, give me a minute, you know? Well, and that's, that's you. And I, and I encourage people that are going through it that they be as empowered to speak up when, for whatever reason. I mean, either it's something they're enjoying, they want more, they want less, whatever, you know, and don't ever be like, hey, I need more lube. And if your partner says, you need more lube, what's wrong with you? That's, I mean, I would have some serious red flags in that experience. Just, you know what? Just pour a whole fucking bottle of lube. It's fucking lube. The wetter, the better. And is, as a partner, like, how is Nancy supposed to figure out what you, like, what you want? If the ultimate goal is for the both of you to enjoy it, how is she supposed to figure out what you want if you don't say stuff like that? Exactly. I think there are those who would presume she would guess. Yes. Yeah. But guessing isn't always going to be right. No, no. But that's, I mean, if you think, Can you see the window here? No, no. But if you think about that, that's traditionally what a lot of people when they're engaging in sex, they have an expectation that the person just guess or figure it out based on this, that, or the other. And maybe they're not as expressive in their moans and their facial expressions or it's dark or whatever. Right. When the truth of the matter is, if people were just a little bit more open and simply expressed it, said, bite my clit and I'm going to fucking punch you. Right. And then maybe they won't do that. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Well, I'm not quite sure I would take the attack, but I guess she was, I understand you. You was like a real world example. I think my real world example is I was, I was receiving anal from someone who had never done it before who had a penis with kind of, it was too bad he didn't know what to do with it. It was rather large. I have known men like that. And I remember saying, stop. And he goes, just fucking, we're like, relax. And I was like, well, I'm never fucking you again. You just said, like screaming, just fucking relax. Are you sure you didn't say Frankie says relax? See, no, I know it. No, I was like, well, that just, no fucking way I'm going to relax. Like, nothing, nothing makes you relax more than somebody screaming at you to relax. Screaming at you because he doesn't, he hasn't had anal yet. I mean, the fuck? A person's insecurity and fears come out in those moments of intimacy for, you know, often for bad. And that's when we have reactions that can be very negative. And then it can create like, well, I'm never going to have anal again because of that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's been, that's been sort of my, my response call for most of the relationships, not just physical, sexual, emotional relationships, but friendships. It's the kind of thing that you don't really, you don't find out a whole lot about somebody until something goes wrong. Bingo. Like, like, like the bad thing when, when the bad thing happens. How do they, how do they react when the bad thing happens? Another year round going, I can't wait for the bad thing to happen to see what, how the shit settles. No, no, no, no. You want the salad days to go on as long as possible. Not great term. But it really is that which, which tests your, you know, metal for lack of a better term. It's true. It's true. Yeah. Well, you know what? That, I mean, although the fisting was done fairly early in the episode, which was fantastic, it should happen again. I, I really wanted to thank our guests. Don't you want to thank our guests? I want to thank Nancy. Yay, Nancy. And her fantastic skills and her care with a vagina. And she does it because she loves the vagina. You went, you went from zero to, I mean, once you're past the knuckle, you're in the vagina. I mean, in the scant course of 20 minutes. So that's really something that should be applauded just from the skill of, of arousing. Yes. To, I mean, like, it also helps that, you know, she treated her fist like a pogo stick, but it is, it is what it is. It was her fist. It was her fist. I was so fine. Yes. Awesome. Good color commentary, Andrew. I cannot wait to listen back to this one. Right. Job professional. Because I, I zoned out. I'm going to watch the video. That's what I'm going to do when it's on YouTube. It's going to happen. I'm going to, I'm going to listen to it and imagine. Imagine. I'll probably listen to it Your recollection of the, of the experience? My recollections are quite often much better than the experience. Ain't that the truth? So, we're running out of time, but we do want to remind everyone to tune in next week. We'll be doing a 2013 in review episode. And we'll probably have a shit ton of people in here if we can get them to come in because that's the plan. Maybe some funny people, maybe some not so funny people, and it'll be just mayhem. Maybe we'll have alcohol. Maybe. I like this plan. Yeah. Possibly. Be sure to, you know, review us on iTunes. Follow us. You can follow all four of us on iTunes. You can follow us on Twitter and the Fed Live. I'm Insidious Muse everywhere. And I'm Service Sled everywhere. I'm OutX Oceana, which is the Anglicization of my Latin love. And I'm Charlie underscore Frown. Yep. And we're Intellectual Kink. And thanks for listening.