📄 Transcript [show]
Outro Music Hello world, this is the Sydney Silver Show.
This is the show formerly designed to piss y'all off until I make y'all love each other.
But now, I don't care if you love each other or not.
It's your right to hate things.
And you know what?
Isn't it kind of a form of abuse to force people who don't like certain people and don't like certain things to mix and have to be in the same situation with each other?
I don't know.
I'm just saying, hate away.
So today on the show, we have an atheist skeptic named Spencer Marks.
And he is here to rebut the Ghost Enslaver show that you hopefully just saw.
And we also have Dave Spinks, who is the master, master Ghost Enslaver, back on the line to rebut the rebuttal.
But before we start, I just want to show you, because I'm wearing an Indian sari today.
I'm very excited about it.
So I just want to show you on the big screen.
India!
And...
India!
Not only that, but I'm wearing my yin-yang hands.
So I am what I call the dots.
Here's my white dot.
And here's my black dot.
I'm the dots inside the yin-yang.
So if you want to know who I am, I'm the black dot in the white side.
And I'm the white dot in the black side.
Even though I'm going to probably at some point show you why it's all the same thing anyway.
Anything to say about that, Spence?
No, I think it's very creative.
I like it.
All right.
Before we get started here with the whole like rebuttal to the ghost thing, we are a skeptic and an atheist.
I just wanted to get to my good news of the day.
I like to reverse what was formerly seen as bad and find the good news in it.
By the way, if I clap my hands together like this, as I was doing earlier, with my yin-yang symbols or the dots, you get gray or silver, which is me.
The silver lining in everything.
All right.
So I'm just going to read this to you because the good news is a little bit complicated today.
My good news is why the apocalypse is the good news.
Does anyone have...
Is Dave Spinks on the line with us?
Dave, are you there?
Yes, I am.
Awesome.
Can you or Spencer think of what any of the good news would be in the apocalypse?
If zombies are...
If they're not fast enough to catch you, I guess that's a good thing.
Who's they?
The zombies, I guess.
Oh, there's going to be zombies.
Awesome.
What do you think, Dave?
I don't know how any good could come out of that.
Okay.
Well, here is...
I'm going to explain to you, okay?
The good news is...
Is the apocalypse.
Because the Greek meaning of the word apocalypse is disclosure of knowledge, lifting of the veil or revelation.
So there's no really need to be afraid of the apocalypse because it's basically the lifting of the veil of unknowledge.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even if it was like a zombie apocalypse, though, we wouldn't need to be afraid of anything anyway.
Because if eternity is real, we're going to go on and things will be fine, right?
Absolutely.
You know, my question is actually, since you're a skeptic, do you believe in eternity?
You have to define the word.
I mean, eternity...
You know, if you look at...
If you're talking about scientifically, is the universe going to last forever?
It will, as far as we know, going to end in a very cold, dark universe because all the galaxies are flying away from each other.
And over time, the stars will cool.
And, you know, go away.
But there'll still be something in eternity.
But...
So was that a yes or a no?
Well, I mean, if you're asking scientifically, eternity, yes, exists.
If you're asking, are we going to live forever?
I think that answer is no.
Okay.
And Dave, I don't know your religion.
You seem very open-minded to me.
I know you're...
I believe you may be Christian, but I'm not sure.
Do you believe in eternity?
Like just as a thing?
That eternity could exist?
Yeah, in a broad aspect, I do.
You do?
Okay.
Yeah.
Also...
Yeah.
To continue really quickly with the apocalypse thing, I just wanted to say that in the New Testament, which who knows what people think about the Bible, but in the New Testament, the revelation that John receives is the knowledge of the victory of good over evil.
So if you believe in good and evil, there is nothing to fear because what the apocalypse means is a disclosure of knowledge and new understandings that will be about the end of what we call evil.
So I don't know if this is going to be due to new ways, new ways of living, new technology, new advances or whatever it is, but I'm doing my part for the apocalypse by bringing about the good news and also with an upcoming sermon I have about good and evil.
So that's that.
Okay?
What do you guys think about that?
Any comments or anything you want to do to rebut me on that?
Well, I think we need to define exactly what the apocalypse is instead of those terms.
In other words, like...
Well, that's the definition of it in the dictionary.
Right.
But I'm just saying, does that...
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
I mean, that all humans died.
Is that...
What happens during the apocalypse?
You know?
Well, okay.
There's some people that would say all humans dying would be a good thing.
Right.
I know a lot of vegans that would like that.
Well, they'd be part of that, I'm sure.
I think they qualify as human.
Okay.
The definition of it is, is a new knowledge, a new understanding that ends evil.
It's like a lifting of the veil of, you know, ignorance basically.
Right.
I don't know if that's heaven or not because I think sometimes knowing too much can actually be very painful.
But anyway...
Anyways.
Okay.
I'm glad you guys are on today because I actually was thinking the other day that we kind of need, you know, more fighting on this show.
And I think that one of the best things to do is for people to toughen up is actually to brave going through insults to yourself.
I actually wanted to put myself through an insult camp recently where I just let people insult me all day long and I learned how to deal with it.
So, you know, thank you to both of you for being here.
And Spencer, I just wanted to say, you saw the show we did with Dave where he had a ghost investigation.
Right.
And I just want to ask, what were your issues with that?
Well, I mean, a couple of things.
I think people need to know as well that I belong to actually the world's largest ghost or paranormal investigations group, but we investigate things from a rational scientific standpoint.
And the group is called the Independent Investigations Group here in Los Angeles.
We actually have chapters kind of around the U.S.
and Canada.
Well, what you call rational.
Well, it is.
It's rational because we don't...
For instance...
One of my issues with what Dave did, for instance, is they go in and they turn the lights off.
And why do ghosts only operate in the dark?
And that's one question I sort of have.
Okay.
I mean, if it's really just a matter of turning on the lights and getting rid of the ghosts, then why don't we just keep the lights on and you won't have any ghost problem?
So that's one of the first problems.
The second thing is, I'm not really sure what this machine was that Dave was using.
Apparently...
The RIMPOD?
Yeah.
I've never seen that or heard of it.
I mean...
You know, when it seems like, and I don't want to put words in Dave's mouth, but it seems like if he goes in for these investigations, they go in with the assumption that there's a ghost.
My group, if they say, somebody calls us and say, we have noises at night, we say, hmm, what's making the noises?
Is it a rat?
Is it plumbing?
Is it a house settling?
Why does it have to be a ghost automatically?
And we don't go in with the assumption we know what's going on.
We do it in a rational way.
We look for what's making the noise.
But before Dave rebuts you, can I say something?
Don't you go in there with the assumption...
Assumption that there is no ghost and isn't that a bias?
Only because in over 100 years of very careful scientific testing, nobody's ever actually proven or seen a ghost in a carefully controlled scientific environment.
So, or any sort of paranormal activity, by the way.
So, we don't go in necessarily with the idea that there's no ghost.
We simply say, let's look for evidence to see what is making this noise.
And if it happens to be a ghost, in theory, we could probably find it.
Okay, so you're saying you do not go in with the bias that there is no ghost.
Well, we certainly go in with the idea that that's probably way, way, way low on the list of the possible reasons.
We try to eliminate all the natural reasons.
Okay, because that sounds like a bias to me.
Well, it's a bias only because there has never been any evidence whatsoever in the history of man to show that these things actually exist when you look at it with a scientific principle.
Is there anything in the herstory of woman?
Neither women or men.
By the way, the word man comes from the Sanskrit manis, or manush means people or persons that's already genetically new.
Actually, the word man comes from the word woman.
It's a shortened version of the word woman.
Well, there you go.
But I've always heard of manis or manush from the Sanskrit.
Anyways, that's my opinion.
So, Dave, we're already fighting over here.
Do you like it?
Yeah, I mean, I like to say I respect everyone's opinions and whatnot, and when it comes to the paranormal.
The definition of a paranormal is, you know, first of all, when you can't explain it scientifically, okay?
That's what I do.
I don't assume there's a ghost or an entity or what have you in any location.
People call me and say, hey, I'm experiencing this, that, or the other, and I go in and use some of my techniques to try to either validate what they're saying or debunk it.
And I believe Spencer said, he alluded to the fact that I always do it at night.
Well, I'm sure he doesn't know me very well.
And he's never seen all of my investigation.
I also do them during the day.
Okay, and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, Dave.
I just, you know, it just seemed from the one thing that I saw from Sidney's show.
Right, okay.
So, I just wanted to clear that up.
You do do investigations at night?
I do stuff during the day as well as night.
The reason I do them at night is because some of the cameras I have are infrared and full spectrum in nature and see in aspects the human eye cannot see in.
That's why I do them at night, hoping to maybe possibly catch something that the human eye cannot see.
With the infrared cameras and the full spectrum cameras, that's why I do them at night for the, you know, for the majority of my cases that I work on.
Now, Dave, do you also have ultraviolet cameras?
Yes, I do.
Oh.
Got to do some UFO hunting with you someday.
Yeah, sure.
And, you know, I'm...
But what do you have to say about his other things?
What were...
Well, I know a lot about electronics.
That's sort of my background.
And I'm curious about what the RIMPOD is.
I've never seen or heard of this before.
Oh, yeah.
There was a...
Okay.
So, there was something...
Okay.
So, there was something...
Something in your investigation, Dave, for the people that didn't see the first part of this show, which you should, there was something called a RIMPOD, and it looked as if there was something non-physical touching it, because you had to touch it to turn the lights on.
Right.
The RIMPOD, if you guys don't know, I'll tell you a little bit about it.
What it is, it's a device that puts off an electromagnetic field around the antenna and around the device itself, and it's based off of a touch principle.
Okay.
So, if anything breaks that...
If anything breaks that field, then it sets off bells and whistles, you know, lights and audio to let you know something's breaking that field.
Okay.
So, it...
Electronically, we'd actually call that a Wheatstone bridge.
It's a very highly sensitive...
Same thing, Spencer.
You're absolutely correct.
Yeah.
So, I mean, I used to build Wheatstone bridges from kids when I was a kid, you know.
So, I mean, I'm very familiar with what they are.
And I assumed that that was what it was, just looking at it.
But, yeah, they're very, very, very sensitive.
It's almost like an ultrasound.
It's a very sensitive metal detector.
Like, when you go walk along the beach and you move the metal detector along.
Okay.
So, anything that moves, in this case, it doesn't even have to really be metal per se.
It can be human skin.
It's very sensitive to that sort of electromagnetic variation.
So, what are you saying?
If somebody moves, it will go off?
Yeah.
Or electromagnetic waves might activate it from an overhead airplane that keys a microphone.
Now, what about when he was moving his hand around it and it wasn't going off?
It was like his hand...
I can't remember the name.
It used to be...
Dave, maybe you know.
There used to be an instrument, a musical instrument.
And they based it on this sort of Wheatstone Bridge.
And they would translate it to weird sort of ethereal sounds.
And as you moved your hands around it, you'd literally play this instrument by how close you would get to the instrument without touching it.
It would go...
I'll let Dave respond because I already said, you know, something.
Dave, do you have anything to say to that?
Do you know the name?
Yeah, I know what he's talking about.
But I cannot...
For the life of me, thinking of the name off the top of my head.
It's kind of one of those weird names.
Right, exactly.
Yeah, I know what he's talking about.
The reason I use that device, you know, is because, you know, everything is a theory when it comes to paranormal investigating.
Not everything can be measured scientifically.
I don't care if you're using a flashlight or REM pod, whatever device you're using.
Okay?
So, and that's my view on it, you know, as far as that stuff goes.
Well, I mean, we agree on that.
Can the consciousness be scientifically measured?
You have to define anything first.
You have to define what you're measuring.
Any experiment starts with a conjecture.
I mean, like in my brain, my human consciousness, can it be measured scientifically?
Again, you have to define what you're saying.
Your consciousness.
Yeah, my awareness of existence.
Well, it would be very, very hard to measure that outside of your own head, of course.
But, you know, there's an old...
There's an old philosophy that says, I think, therefore I am, you know.
So, if you're thinking then, for you, that's good enough proof that you are.
Maybe I'm not.
Well, for me, that's true.
Maybe there's no proof of me.
Perhaps I never existed here in the first place.
But Dave said something very important.
And I appreciate the fact, Dave, that you said, you know, you can't really measure certain things scientifically.
Well, but that's sort of the crux of the matter.
Because if something occurs in the natural world, you should be able to measure it scientifically.
And if it's supernatural, that word means outside of nature.
It means above nature.
Supernatural.
And if something is truly supernatural, if it's outside of nature, how could we possibly see it or measure it or experience it in any way using a natural field like science?
Dude, I'm just waiting for a big lightning bolt to come down and smack you right now.
I think we're inside a well-protected building.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Was there something there for Dave to rebut to?
Well, no, I mean, I'm saying that, you know, basically what he's saying in that you can't measure certain things.
But if you can't, then it's outside the natural world.
So what is even the discussion?
I mean, if you can't measure it or really investigate it.
Well, it is true that there are things that exist just because we don't know it exists and we can't measure it yet.
Like what?
Well.
Name one thing.
We don't know what they are yet.
But, you know, it's kind of like.
Right.
If you think about us like an ant, right?
An ant may have no awareness of an airplane and no way to measure it or even know that it exists.
But it doesn't mean that the airplane doesn't exist.
The airplane does exist.
This is true.
However, if the ant becomes sophisticated enough, it will eventually be able to understand what an airplane is by measurement or by observation.
But the thing is, if you cannot measure these forces.
So you're saying that nothing can exist.
No, I'm not saying.
No, I'm not saying nothing can exist.
I'm saying.
There's not even worth a discussion.
If it's something that's literally not measurable, then why?
What are we talking about?
Well, not measurable yet because we might be like the ant.
That's all I'm saying.
Well, that's true.
But that's just a matter of the better process.
My question is that RIMPOD is, it looks to me like he's waving his hands around it and then he touches it and doesn't touch it and he moves around it and he turns it on and off and he sets it down.
And then it darn well looks like something, you know.
And then it touches it when he's just standing there.
Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.
I don't understand that.
Wheatstone bridges are so sensitive that any electromagnetic disturbance within the building itself, an airplane overhead transmitting, that can, it's got very, very, very tight tolerances.
So anything.
What do you think about that, Dave?
Well, it's not, it's, you know, that particular device, it's similar to what he's talking about, but it's not the exact same thing.
It's built on different tolerances.
And I show that by how it works in the videos that I do.
You know, by moving my hand back.
I'm moving my hand back and forth around it and everything.
Now, he is correct.
Like, I have done tests with those particular devices and I will key up a handheld radio, okay, and it will go off, but not all the time.
Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't.
Okay.
In that particular home on that instance, there, you know, there was no devices of that sort being utilized to set that device off.
Did you, you showed in the video that you couldn't sense any electromagnetic fields in the air?
Is that, I think I saw that in the video.
Didn't you do that?
Well, yeah, I always use another device called a Melmeter.
It's a very sensitive device that does measure EMF in a particular area around the device.
It's a handheld and you carry it around.
Okay.
Sometimes it matches up with the devices you're using.
Sometimes it doesn't.
But that, you know, it's all baby steps, guys.
I mean, that's what we're doing.
To give an analogy, like you just said, we're the ants trying to figure out.
What happens after we die?
If there's other entities, other, if there's actual, you know, spirits out there with what people are seeing.
I mean, there's just a whole, you could go on for weeks about this topic.
Okay.
Really?
Yeah.
Really quickly before we get off the RIM pod, because I want to get off the RIM pod.
Okay.
A question for Spencer.
If he could show you a video where the RIM pod was going off and nobody was moving and there was another instrument showing there is no electromagnetic fields, would you believe in it more?
Well.
Or.
Not.
First of all, how do we know that a ghost has any sort of electromagnetic signature at all?
I mean, why?
No, no, no.
Not the ghost.
No, no.
But what I'm saying.
The RIM pod.
Because you said the RIM pod is set off by electromagnetic fields.
If he had something that showed there was no electromagnetic field and nobody was moving, would you believe then that it might be something more supernatural or not?
Not necessarily.
It would have to be, we'd have to have both of those devices inside something called a Faraday cage, which is completely electrically neutral or radio wave neutral.
In other words, it sucks out all the radio waves from the outside.
So there's no interference.
Okay.
And so if this thing was created or this test was done inside of a Faraday cage, it certainly would be more meaningful to me.
But radio waves and electromagnetic waves are really a strange thing.
He might have one instrument that simply isn't fine enough, finely tuned enough for that particular spectrum because the electromagnetic spectrum is huge.
And.
If you took the entire spectrum and laid it out in bits from Los Angeles to Anchorage, Alaska.
So you're saying we can't even trust our own instruments?
No, I'm not saying that.
I'm saying you have to know what you're even looking for.
You have to define what specific wavelength you're looking for.
You have to define all kinds of things.
Okay.
So if it was done in a Faraday cage, then you might start believing it was something more paranormal?
I would.
I would go there.
I would go there last because I'd have to believe then that it goes.
Because you're biased.
No, no, because.
Yeah, you are biased.
Well.
They may be biased on the supernatural side, but I'm in the middle here, you guys.
Okay.
You are biased on the skeptic side.
Well, of course.
Yeah.
I'm right in the middle between both of you.
Like, okay.
One of the reasons, you know, I feel like I've gone through paranormal experiences yet again on the skeptic side.
You know, I hate the whole, you know, that thing about the secret where people think you can just manifest things with your mind.
Which is absolutely.
Really.
Really.
If that was true, then how come we don't have a big blue monster out there with big green dots on it?
Because we all saw that one movie called Monsters, Inc.
We would have all manifested him.
Why aren't we all wealthy and, you know, happy?
Exactly.
Why aren't I rich right now?
So I'm also on the skeptic side, but I'm also on the paranormal side.
So I'm just going to tell both you guys as what I think is that, you know, I see bias on both sides.
You know, it's almost like it would be impossible to prove to you anything.
Because even if something was in a Faraday cage, you know, then you'd start.
You're saying, well, the instruments malfunctioned.
No, no, I would not.
See, you're trying to assume that I would say one thing over another.
I will believe in anything you want me to believe in.
Just show me evidence or proof.
That's all I ask.
So if it's.
So what would be the proof in this situation?
Again, we'd have to define that ghosts have an electromagnetic signature.
Because that's the only thing that's going to set that sort of instrument off.
So why would you believe that you know that a ghost has some sort of electromagnetic spectrum to it?
Where is that defined?
I mean, where does it say that anywhere?
I think that comes from the idea that our thoughts are based on electro impulses.
Maybe.
Can I chime in on that?
Sure.
Go right ahead, Dave.
A lot of the reason that people believe and the theory is that with the EMF, the whole EMF thing and spirits.
Because numerous studies have been done from people who report paranormal activity that, you know, when folks go into investments.
Right.
Right.
And they investigate, they've measured high EMF fields in that home, that general area or what have you.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
So that's where they get that from, that theory of high EMF and whatnot.
Well, like I say, I mean, and I want to be really specifically clear about this.
I don't.
I'm not a person that says I don't believe in anything.
I say I will believe in anything.
Just show me evidence.
And that's all I ask for.
Because, you know, it would be.
Let's put it this way.
If you were suddenly.
If you were suddenly arrested and found yourself on trial for murder, would you rather have the jury that says, we'd really like to see the evidence of this.
Maybe blood evidence, fingerprints, shoe prints, you know, murder weapon.
Or would you like to have a jury that says, we're going to have a fancy device that has, you know, shows electromagnetic signals.
And we're going to ask it if you're guilty or not.
And let the device tell us.
Because somehow there's some magic in the air or some kind of.
Well.
I mean, which would you rather have.
If you're a real skeptic.
Yeah.
Right.
That's a whole different scenario.
In my view, Spencer.
Well, I mean, but it's an extreme view, of course.
And I'm not suggesting that that's proves whole thing or disproves it.
But I'm just saying.
My question is, if you're a real skeptic, shouldn't you even be skeptical of your skepticism?
Yes.
Absolutely.
You need to be.
You always need to be self-reflective and see if you are being biased in one way or another.
Because, you know, biases are a very, very critical thing.
And no offense, Dave, but some of these things I watched in the video that it seemed like there was a lot of confirmation bias, a lot of.
Well, how do you explain a flashlight turning on and off?
Can we actually play that video really fast?
We have a little clip of the flashlight turning on and off.
Did you see that?
I did.
Okay.
Flashlight just came on Cindy.
Grab.
With grab.
Right when I said that we have all kinds of devices.
With grab.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So.
Okay.
So.
Okay.
Turn that flashlight back off, please.
Show us you're really communicating with us.
Turn it back off.
Fear.
Fear.
Thank you.
Flashlight's on.
Mm-hmm.
Did.
Oh, you did that?
Did.
Yeah.
Flashlight's on again, guys.
We didn't ask you to turn the flashlight on.
Turn it off.
All the way.
Born.
Born.
Okay.
So this flashlight was actually turned on.
Okay.
So the flashlight was a regular flashlight straight from a regular store.
It just turns itself on and off.
How do you explain that, Spencer?
You know, obviously unless I look at the flashlight itself and I have no explanation, but that's not a very fair thing to say, well, here's a video of something that's anomalous.
Dave, was that, are you a Christian, Dave?
Uh, yes.
Would you swear on the Bible that that was a regular flashlight?
Yes.
Well, then that's fine.
I'm not suggesting Dave sets something up, too.
I can, I can fill in something that Spencer is wondering.
Okay.
I can tell you that right now.
Okay.
The reason that a lot of people do not use the flashlights, okay, I use them on occasion.
I don't use them all the time because they are not 100% accurate, okay?
There is a spring loaded, when you, when you twist the flashlight, you have it to where it's gonna, it's in between being on and off, okay?
And there's a spring device in those, in those particular type of flashlights.
Um, and so when you, this, this type twists on.
So there's a way to trick the flashlight.
So, yeah.
So, right.
The arc can jump and, and set the flashlight on.
But what I'd look for when I do that, when I do use the flashlight, is I try to get an interaction going, okay?
When, there's no such thing as so many coincidences.
When I, when I say turn it on and it turns it on automatically right then and there, and I'd say turn it off and it turns it off, that's what I look for.
I'm not saying it's definitely a spirit, uh, making that happen.
Okay.
So the flashlight was kind of tricked out to turn on and off?
No, they're not tricked out.
It's a standard flashlight.
You can go buy one right now and you can, uh.
It's just, it's just what happens is when you twist the base of the head, you, Right.
you bring a spring closer or farther from the contact point of the battery.
Right.
And so he's saying he's, he's balancing that right on that ragged edge.
And you don't, you know, it's just one of those things that you utilize when you're, Uh, it's like another, you gotta use many different devices and you compile it all together to say, hey, Hmm.
that could, there could be something paranormal in this general area.
Okay.
But Dave, why, why don't you use a flashlight that has a positive switch, you know, like, Uh.
I have, I have, I've used many different types.
And, and if you use a flashlight switch on, switch off and, and you've had positive results there?
Um, with the, okay, for instance, you know, the ones that have the slide switch that are on the side and they go back and forth.
Sure.
Like the old mag lights?
Right.
I've never had one of those go off, but I have had a push button one on the back go off before.
Well, I mean, obviously that, that would be a very interesting result.
I'd love to see something like that.
Okay.
Well, you guys, um, you know, you believe in atheism.
That's your belief.
That's, that's not exactly the right way to say it.
Um.
That is the right way to say it.
No, I don't believe in atheism.
You believe, everything is a belief because we don't know what we're doing here.
Nobody knows for sure.
No, some things are a lack of belief.
So everything here is a theory.
Everything here is a theory, even atheism.
Okay.
But atheism is a lack of belief of something.
It's not a belief.
Which is a belief, a lack of a belief.
It's still a way that you're believing.
That's true.
It's still something that you're thinking.
Okay.
So you believe in atheism.
He believes in Christianity.
Um, I just had something to kind of poke at Dave a little bit.
Um, Dave, in your, let's just say, you know, clearing aside the argument, was there a ghost?
Was there not a ghost?
Okay.
Your ghost or potential ghost said to you that it was, um, you, you said to it, you said, where are you from or who brought you here or something like that.
And it says, God, do you remember that?
Well, and, and I think it was Cindy says, no, that's not true.
And I was thinking in my head, but if God created everything and God is everything, then God created demons, ghosts, um, Lucifer, like everything.
So actually it was telling you the truth.
And I was wondering why did you, why did you deny it?
The ghost that.
Well, that wasn't me that denied that.
Oh, okay.
That was Cindy.
Yeah.
But the thing is, it's like you said, it's all on what your belief system's based off of, you know?
Yeah.
So I don't, I'm not, I'm kind of on the fence with everything.
That's why I do what I do because of the experience I told you I had with my grandfather.
Yeah.
I want to hear about that.
What happened?
You said you saw your grandfather.
I've been pursuing answers ever since.
So tell me, tell me exactly what happened when you saw your grandfather.
You had, you said that you had, um, as I recall, just briefly, uh, his grandfather had died and he didn't know it and he was in bed one night.
I might be getting this wrong, Dave.
His maternal grandfather.
Yeah.
I was in, I was at my dad's house and I'm talking about my mother's dad.
Yeah.
My mother's dad here.
Okay.
They live 30 miles apart.
My grandfather was a World War II vet, very sick man, had all kinds of health problems.
I was at my dad's.
I woke up and standing at the edge of my bed was my mom's dad.
And I'm thinking, what are you doing here?
Why are you here?
You know, he didn't say anything.
No.
And he was solid, a solid form.
I mean, he couldn't see through him like the typical ghost story.
Okay.
Uh huh.
How was he dressed?
He kind of smiled.
I did that double take thing and he was gone.
I'm like, did I just see that?
How was he dressed?
Was he dressed like he normally does or differently?
He was just dressed in his normal clothes, you know.
And he didn't say anything?
I didn't recall that because I don't really remember what he was wearing per se, but I saw his face, you know.
Okay.
I was concentrating on his face.
Let me guess.
I'm going to do some psychicness right now.
Let me guess what Spencer's going to say about that.
Spencer's going to say you had a brain fart and just something happened with your brain.
Right, Spencer?
No.
No?
Dave, you said this is just as you were waking up or just as you were going to sleep, something like that?
I was in a dead sleep and I woke up and sat straight up in the bed and there he was.
Why did you sit up like that?
You felt like someone was there?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I just woke up and sat up like out of the blue and there he was, you know.
There's a very, very well understood phenomenon.
One is called a hypnagogic experience and one's called a hypnotic experience.
I always sort of forget which one is which, but one is kind of as you're going to sleep and one is as you're waking, but it's basically the same thing.
Your body does a lot of, and I'm not suggesting this is what happened to you, but I'm saying anytime we hear about these experiences that happen just as you wake or just as you're going to sleep and down through the ages, I mean, it depended on what culture had which sort of demons popular at the time.
People would report it was either witches or demons.
It was either witches or, you know, aliens or Bigfoot or whatever, but people will see these entities in the middle of their bedrooms and very clearly, and they're very clear on that and that's why, but it's very well understood.
And like I say, I don't know that for a fact it was, but that's why I was asking you whether it was waking up.
Well, I want to say something that happened that you could probably call a coincidence.
In my psychic vision, I think you're going to say it's a coincidence.
I was, you know, one time I couldn't sleep.
I hadn't been to sleep or anything and just all night until about 4 a.m.
I was freaking out inside.
I was sweating because I had this feeling that, you know, one of my grandparents was going to die.
I didn't know if it was my grandmother or my grandfather, but I just flipped out.
Finally at 4 a.m.
I got up and I called my stepmother and I said, you need somebody, one of your parents is going to die.
I don't know.
You've got to go out there.
I just feel like you have to go out there now and they're going to die in about two weeks time.
And she started crying and she said, I've been having the same feeling, but I got to finish up this jewelry project.
I'm working on it right now.
And so we hung up the phone the next morning and called her and I said, oh, I'm so sorry.
I feel so stupid.
That was dumb.
It was 4 a.m.
I must have been having some kind of, you know, I was just a nightmare or something.
Well, two weeks later she said, okay, well I have to stay here anyway for the jewelry project.
Two weeks later, my grandfather died and if she had gone out at that time, she would have been able to stop his death because his medication was getting mixed up by his wife.
By accident, she didn't realize, you know.
And then the same thing happened to me with my cat.
I knew that she was going to die in one year and then she died in one year.
It was like, how am I knowing when all these people are going to die?
Right.
You know, it could be a coincidence.
Well, we actually, in our monthly meeting at the Independent Investigations Group, we actually just, we have this sort of segment we do for about 15 minutes called a brain warm up and we talk about interesting things like that.
And we, I think it was our last meeting, we went around the room and we said, okay, everybody's had these sort of one-off weird things.
Yeah.
Including us, the skeptics.
Mine aren't one-off though, but yeah.
Well, but I mean, the point is it's, you can't replicate them on command as well.
Oh, okay.
So to that degree, they're one-offs, but, and we kind of went around the room and I have a story like that too.
Kind of a weird story because I was at a client's house, like I say, I do electronic work and I was at a client's house and I, it was this huge mansion here in Los Angeles in the, the Hancock Park area and I went down to the basement and there were like three or four people in the basement.
And there were three or four rooms and they all had sort of furniture and storage and all the furniture had these like sheets over them.
And it was very, it was, you know, visually it looked very like sort of haunted house-y sort of thing with, you know, kind of spooky, but this was before I became kind of a full on skeptic.
But nevertheless, I mean, it didn't matter to me that the rooms were sort of spooky looking.
I wasn't going to be stopped from going through, but in this one particular room, I walked to a certain point about midway and suddenly my legs just came to a dead halt.
I couldn't force myself to move forward in the room and I was like suddenly filled with this dread and fear.
And it was, you know, like I felt like, oh my God, did somebody die in here or whatever?
And I backed out and about 10 or 15 minutes later that now that was really stupid.
Let me go back in.
And I went in and literally at the same spot, I couldn't, I was just locked, frozen and I couldn't move.
And any of the other rooms, even though it looks similar with the furniture and the sheets over them, I mean, I was able to walk through them, no problem.
And to this day, I have no idea what that was, but I, again, you know.
Is that why you became a skeptic?
No.
Are you an investigator?
No, not at all.
Cause it's like you guys are both investigators, but you're doing it on the disbelief side and he's doing it on the belief side.
That's the way I see it.
Right.
And the other interesting thing, Dave doesn't know this, but I guess we're both former police officers.
So that's an interesting thing.
Ah, that's interesting.
But yeah.
I started as a skeptic too, you know, until I've had so many experiences I can't explain.
I mean, there's just something out there that we cannot explain yet.
Doesn't mean it's not there because we can't measure it scientifically.
Well, and again, I mean, it goes back to, of course, there's certainly a possibility that there are many things out in the universe.
I would never say, no, no, we know how the entire universe works.
There are many things we might still be to discover, but until...
Yeah, that's what I was saying earlier.
Right.
And I have no problem with that, but until...
But why are you a skeptic?
Are you trying to help people or like, why are you, why do you try to disprove things kind of?
I don't try to disprove anything actually.
Oh, okay.
Right.
That's the bias.
I don't try to disprove anything.
There's two components to what I feel I do, or at least with the IIG.
There are charlatans out there.
There are people that will actually take a lot of money from you and claim that they're gonna cleanse you of spirits.
Well, number one, we do want to fight against the charlatans.
I imagine Dave is on that same page because, you know, hopefully he...
Yeah, exactly.
I don't take a penny from anyone.
It's all on my own dime.
Right.
So, I mean, that...
Okay, that's interesting.
Yeah.
I'm not gonna lie to you, Dave.
So, but the point is there are many, many people that will like, you know, the psychics or whatever that say, oh no, no, I see a dark cloud around you.
So, it's an ethical thing.
Exactly.
Four or $5,000, I'll clear that bad spirit from you.
My question on the ethics side is, cause I understand that.
I personally agree with that.
But then there's also the other side that, you know, science can be extremely unethical and very cruel.
Of course.
But the nice thing about science, or at least the ideal of science, is that it's science.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's self-correcting.
So, if a guy named Dr. Wakefield told us in England, because lawyers paid him to come up with a false thing that said, you know, MMR vaccines cause autism.
And so he wrote a paper in the Lancet.
No, no, no, that's not what I was saying.
I was just saying science can be cruel.
No, but I'm...
I understand that.
You know, they chop apart living animals.
They don't care how they feel.
Yeah, I understand that.
They can do anything.
If you're just talking science, no morals, a person could do anything to anyone.
Well...
So, I'm just saying...
That's not true.
I agree with...
I personally like what you said about the whole skeptic thing, but I'm just saying as a pure whole entire form of just science and the skepticism side, it doesn't mean that it's not cruel and causing suffering.
Yeah, but most science...
It doesn't make it...
Most science does not involve animals.
Right, in a moral sense.
I mean, most science...
Really?
Of course.
That's not true.
There's a lot of science.
I said most science.
Cosmology...
You don't want to see something I'm saying, is that I'm saying that science isn't necessarily...
No. ...ethical, if you're talking about morals.
But if you're talking about saving lives and you're talking about extracting some serum from an animal...
Science has nothing to do with saving lives.
That has to do with morality.
Well, lots of serums and things...
It's like a gun.
You have a gun.
How do you use the gun?
Science is the same way.
It's just a thing and we put our morals onto it and our ethics onto it.
Well, that's true.
That's very true.
You see?
That's very true.
Okay, so you guys, really quickly, onto a slightly different topic.
What's the time, please, Cheyenne?
Okay, awesome.
I might get back to this, but I just wanted to say something really quickly.
Okay, this is my topic of the day.
If you can see me on the screen.
Okay, I have this little mask here and I was actually at a party with Spencer and I was wearing this mask.
I wanted to wear the mask for my own reasons, but there was a dog at the party, right?
A black dog.
And he saw me...
Which...
He's a little bit of a Christ, by the way.
Oh, his name is Christ.
Awesome.
Sounds like you should be loving me, Christ.
Yeah, he was like, started barking at me and he got really angry at me and he was just barking and barking and I usually get along with dogs, but I had this mask on and the owner of the dog jokes with me, right?
And he says, you look scary.
You look like a burglar.
And I was thinking the same thing.
So my topic of the day and my question was, why do different species across our entire planet find the same things scary?
Why?
And he told me he doesn't mind talking about dog theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't mind talking about theories, he doesn't these creatures look, they start to look scary and to scare other things off or colorful, right?
And all these other species recognize it across the species barrier.
Like I was thinking about it and I was thinking, okay, maybe certain creatures that looked scarier survived better.
And so then they slowly, gradually got scarier and scarier looking.
But why does that go across the species barrier?
That doesn't explain why a dog thinks the same thing looks scary and the fish thinks the same thing looks scary.
There may be something to the idea that, you know, beautiful, there's natural beauty that transcends across species or humans and there's things that are scary that transcends across that.
I mean, you know, we certainly, all species evolve to understand what danger is.
That's why, I mean, even lions who are sort of the top of the food chain, they won't necessarily be brave in every situation.
They'll run off because they look at things and go, well, that's kind of scary.
It's good, that could hurt me.
So, yeah, I mean, I think that's why they're scary and they're scary because they're scary.
So, you know, I mean, I think there's a natural...
So science could extrapolate that there are, in other species, the same sensations of scariness or visions of scariness or whatever.
I mean, that's just, that's my own...
So that's something that I wanted to, you know, say about Dave, because in the beginning I was thinking, why would a ghost, you know, act scary?
Like, aren't they completely different from us?
Well, I mean...
At that point, or are they not?
The one thing that, you know, I guess is...
Maybe they are the same as us, but just without a body.
If they exist, I can't imagine why they...
I mean, Casper the Friendly Ghost was Casper the Friendly Boy at some point, right?
Before he died.
So, I mean, I can't imagine why they'd be any different once they die, but...
All right.
Well, Dave, did you want to add anything to this before I move on to...
I mean, you know, if you think about it, if spirits do actually exist, if there's some resonance of that, a particular person that was a butthole when they were alive, maybe they're a butthole when they're dead.
We don't know.
I mean, that to me is...
Butthole is a point of view, everyone.
I just want to notate.
But I agree with Dave on that point.
I think, you know, if such things do exist, then I don't understand why you would necessarily be any different when you...
If that's really your spirit, your soul, then why would it be any different after you died, you know?
Okay.
Well, thank you so much for the debate, Dave.
Really appreciate it.
I'm going to continue...
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sure.
Of course.
I'll let you know what's, you know, post this up and let you know about it.
It was very interesting.
I don't know if I feel like, you know, I feel like both...
If you want to ask my opinion, nobody asked, but I'm going to just give it to you anyway.
What is your opinion?
My opinion is I felt both of you guys had some good points on both sides.
You know, some of the things that Dave said, like his grandfather appearing in front of his eyes, I don't feel like you really explained that, Spencer.
Oh, and I can't.
Like I say, I can't explain one-off situations.
The flashlight thing, I feel like Dave didn't, you know, that totally, I lost it on the flashlight thing.
Now I don't believe in the flashlight.
You know, I feel like both of you guys had something on either side, and I'm still in the middle.
That's because we're cops.
You're cops.
Are you playing good cop, bad cop on me, you guys?
I'm the bad cop.
He's a good cop.
He's the bad cop?
No, I'm the bad cop.
Oh.
You know that.
Okay.
All right.
Well, thank you so much, Dave.
You're welcome.
If you want to stay on, you can.
Yeah.
And if you want to stay on, you can.
If you don't want to, go ahead.
Nice talking to you, Dave.
You too.
Okay.
So my next topic that I wanted to bring up really quickly before we have Kelly Kinsler, hopefully she has a little bit of time to come on and tell us some of her ghost stories, is I just wanted to talk about, first of all, I'm going to be black on my next show.
On season two of the Sydney Silver Show, I want to be black.
So like an African-American or African person, black girl.
So that's going to be really interesting.
I think I'm going to look very glamorous.
So stay tuned for that.
But also I just wanted to say, if it bothers you, I don't really care because darkness is when we regenerate.
Our bodies replenish ourselves.
And a lot of plants like to give out oxygen in the dark.
And really there's nothing to be afraid of with the dark.
So you know what?
Get over it.
You're just being a child.
I understand that it can be scary in the dark because we can't see things and stuff like that.
But end of story, I'm going to be black.
All right.
Now I wanted to ask a question.
This is going to be interesting.
You know, I actually wish we had left Dave on now because this is something would be really cool if he was a Christian.
Dave, if you're listening, please call back.
Okay.
My question was, do you think, because now we only have an atheist online to talk about this.
Oh no.
Do you think that heaven could be hell and hell could be heaven?
I mean, assuming that it was real, Spencer, because I know you don't believe in it.
What do you think?
Well, I mean, you've sort of put your finger on it.
I think those are two different things.
I think those are two different things.
Those are concepts that people came up with.
I mean, hell is obviously because people didn't understand what volcanoes were because the description of hell is, of course, you know, sulfurous smell, the brimstone and fire.
People didn't understand what volcanoes were.
So of course they started this concept that when you die, this is where you go down below this thing.
Okay.
Because actually a lot of slaves and subjugate guys, their concept of hell is a cushy pillow with a subjugate woman serving them.
Well, that's, that doesn't come from volcanoes at all.
No, no, but I'm saying the classical Christian concept of a hell.
Okay.
So here's what I was thinking.
Heaven is hell if you have no suffering because eventually you would just get really bored and have an extreme lack of experiences.
I mean, I don't know how it could be hell when there is no suffering, but still you would have no accomplishment.
You'd have no struggle for anything.
So you'd have no pride in yourself.
You'd have, you know, you wouldn't be able to do anything.
You wouldn't be achieving anything.
There'd be a whole entire spectrum of experiences that you could not have in heaven without suffering.
So what are you going to do?
Get really bored because you could have anything you wanted at the snap of your fingers.
So then I was like, wait a minute, heaven could really be hell.
And especially if, you know, your point of view that heaven is hell, maybe you don't like harps.
Maybe you don't like cushions.
Like I was saying, the BDSM guys, right?
You know, I went to Catholic school for three years.
I want to live in a cage and be treated like a dog.
Okay.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's what they're saying.
Okay, go ahead.
With the right person, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, I went to Catholic school and this is something obviously that I was very inquisitive.
And I asked the priest that was a preacher that was giving the brother, I guess, giving the religion class.
I said, well, you know, why is, what actually do you experience in hell?
And he actually said something that surprised me.
He said, oh, you know, hell is actually all the nice things you'd ever want in your life.
And I'm like, really?
I thought it was like fire and all that.
No, no, no.
It's, you know, you'd be very comfortable there and you'd live there.
And I thought, wow, what a strange thing.
But his point was heaven is so much more, is better somehow.
Well, this is that goes on.
Okay.
So if hell, I was thinking hell could be heaven because I said on another show, you know, you could preview, you could, we could be living successively harder lives if reincarnation is real.
So that we can, or even just in this life so that we can learn how to deal with suffering.
Once you can learn how to deal with suffering, and accept it, you start entering heaven because nothing's bothering you anymore, but you still have the full spectrum of experiences that are here.
So I was thinking, you know, hell could be heaven when you learn to accept and deal with suffering, because then you have all the experiences that you could have, such as accomplishment, pride, endings and beginnings, achievement, even suffering, all those things that you couldn't have in heaven.
And then I was thinking, wait a minute, wait a minute.
This could be heaven.
And it could also be hell.
It could be an extension.
I mean, talking to the religious, I'm talking to people right now, because I know you're rolling your eyes in the back of your head.
But anyways, I was thinking that, you know, in something like hell, we would, the only difference might be that we had forgotten that God exists, or we didn't think that it did, or we didn't know how to deal with the suffering.
So that was my thought of the day, is that it's quite possible, if you are religious, that heaven is hell and hell is heaven.
Did that make any sense?
Or am I like going off my rocker?
I'm just trying to explain this.
You know, if those places do exist, then certainly there's a lot of problems with the Christian concept of them.
So, um.
Well, what certain people call Christian, because I'm a Christian in one part of my being.
I'm also agnostic and I'm a lot of other things.
I'm also an atheist.
But my Christian side says this stuff, whereas other Christians don't, you know, and I go ahead with the whole thing that Jesus is Lucifer, because that's what he says he is in the Bible.
And a lot of people don't like that, that call themselves Christians.
So when you say the word Christian, all I can hear is what gets called Christian, or what a lot of people call Christian.
There's so many variations on Christianity.
Okay.
We have someone on the phone, Kelly Kinsler.
Kelly, we only have a few minutes left.
I am so sorry, my dear.
I wanted to have more time with you.
We do have a skeptic in the studio, so don't be frightened.
Okay.
Oh, I'm not.
I've been listening to him.
Okay.
Can you just give us your best ghost story?
We have about 10 minutes.
You had a picture of a house.
Was there some experience you had yourself in this house?
Yes.
I had...
Susan's house?
My grandmother was friends with a lady that owned that house.
Her name was Mrs. Fort.
And I knew her as child.
When she died, her house laid empty for a long time.
And a friend of mine, her and her mother, her children had moved in.
And we all went to school together.
So when it got to the point where they were starting to renovate the inside of the house, things were going on.
You could hear bumps or scratches on the walls, or you could smell things cooking in the kitchen.
And then we had...
It was a three-story house.
And it was around when the Civil War was there.
It was built before the railroad went through.
And there was hidden rooms back in this house.
And she found a whole bunch of, like, Civil War memorabilia in, like, some of the first Playboy magazines that came out.
She said it was, like, all garbage.
And she just threw it away and burned it in the backyard.
And we found wooden legs in the walls.
And...
But we even cleaned up the attic area.
And we were there sleeping.
And Mrs. Fort, she would always come around and check on the kids to make sure that they were okay.
And she'd bend over the bed and look at you and pat you on the head and go out the door and go to the next room.
So you actually saw this ghost with your eyes?
Oh, yeah.
She came up to the attic.
Was it transparent?
No.
Well, kind of, sort of.
Were you falling asleep or waking up when you saw the ghost?
Oh, no.
We just went up there and we were listening to the radio.
We hadn't even been asleep yet.
We heard people coming up the stairs.
We thought it was her little sister.
And it wasn't.
It was Mrs. Fort.
And did...
I knew who it was as soon as I saw her.
She had on the high collar and the long sleeves and the, like, a butcher's apron-looking thing on her dress.
And I knew exactly who it was because I knew who it was.
Did everyone hear the same thing?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Every...
Even if I wasn't there, Susan would always tell me that, you know, well, Mrs. Fort come and put me to bed again tonight and we'd just all laugh about it.
But that street there that we lived on had a lot of tragedy on it and I think this area held onto it for a long time.
And Spencer, you're thinking...
I mean, I hear these sort of interesting stories all the time.
And I would love to go there and experience this myself.
But, you know, we hear these stories, but anytime somebody actually tries to then go there and investigate that sort of thing, then suddenly they don't show up.
So it's...
Well, it happened a lot more during the renovations when stuff was going on.
Well, it sounds like a fascinating house.
As the renovations stopped, I'm not sure if the new people live there are experiencing anything.
Their name is Ferguson.
And I...
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Too уп уп about it.
Excuse me.
I wrote about it in the newspaper.
And when I had an article I was writing there, the second I wrote about it and it was published, those freaking things didn't show up again.
I was so upset because I actually knew a skeptic in your group and I was going to invite him over to do the investigation.
Would that be Mark?
Yeah.
And it didn't happen because suddenly they were just no longer there.
Well, I mean, as a police officer, we would occasionally get calls where people assume they were just burglars or something.
And we'd get there and we'd see the family of raccoons on the roof or possums.
And that was really common.
Yeah, that's that's pretty much what Mark said.
But I'm telling you, these were not possums.
And I've had strange.
They can get like 30 pounds or pretty, pretty big animals.
But everybody in my house heard the same things.
And it was like not raccoons because I could clearly hear high heels.
Click, click, click, click, click, click.
And you didn't want to go out and look up in the room.
We did.
So get up to 80 pounds.
Right.
But I thought I mean, I first I thought I first I thought like, OK, there it's like reflection from somewhere else going up on the roof.
But one of the things that denies that is the fact that, you know, it's over now.
There are no more reflections going up there.
Secondly, it seemed to start getting targeted towards us, which was really odd.
But anyways, sorry, there's something wrong with the sound.
Is everything still OK?
Well, I'm hearing an echo.
Oh, Dave, are you back?
Yeah.
Oh, is this Dave Spinks?
No, my name's my name's Dave Saunders.
Oh, hi.
I'm from Minneapolis.
Awesome.
What did you want to say?
I want to know if there's a way to fuck a ghost.
From my perspective, no.
I'm sorry.
We had to let Dave go.
He was talking about obscenities on the radio.
I'm sorry.
We had to let Dave go.
He was talking about obscenities on the radio.
But, you know, I'm actually kind of interested in answering that question.
I actually think there may be, you know, it depends on you believe in succubuses and all that kind of thing, like like ghosts that can, you know, materialize themselves.
I've I heard somebody who said they felt that they got tapped on the shoulder once by a ghost.
You know, maybe ghosts can become physical.
I don't know if they exist.
Yes, Dave, it's possible you can have sex with a ghost.
I don't know if they do that to draw attention to let you know that they are there.
They're not meaning to hurt you.
They just kind of happen.
Did you feel that the ghost that you're talking about was physical or because I actually had some she said it would tap her.
It would tap her.
You did say that, right?
I've had some poltergeist possible experiences.
Yeah, she'd pat you on the head.
Here's the good news, though, that in the history of man, recorded man and woman and woman.
Yeah.
Again, mankind.
I mean, well, men are women.
You know, sometimes people accuse me of hating men.
And I'm like, how can you say that?
I'm like, I'm not a man.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I'm not a woman.
I hate men.
Men are women.
That's true.
We all started as females.
We all start out as females in the womb.
So I don't even know why people differentiate.
At any rate, in the history of mankind, humankind, humankind, person kind.
Yeah.
We've never had that I know of any homicide that was attributed to ghosts.
Nobody ever said the cause of death ghost.
You know, it's just it's never happened.
The FBI does not have that.
As a police officer, I investigated a couple hundred homicides.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I never saw one that was, you know, ghost related.
And as far as I know, there's never been a.
There are unsolved mysteries, though.
That's true.
But nobody's ever said this.
Gosh, darn it.
This is a ghost related homicide.
And so I think we all we should all take heart.
And then the knowledge for Minneapolis, because now he can have sex with the ghost and he's not going to be killed by the ghost.
That was quite a quirky call.
I actually really liked it.
So I have had poltergeist what I feel are poltergeist experiences.
OK, I walked into a house one time.
I was a teenager and it was a girl named Dolores.
I'll never forget all the freaking doors and cupboards in the kitchen started opening and closing and things were rattling.
And I was like, oh, my gosh, my gosh.
And she just turned to me with tears in her eyes.
And she's like, there's something in here we have to get out of here.
She hated her house.
That was the first poltergeist experience I ever had.
Possible poltergeist experience.
And from then on, I just I've had.
One other one that could possibly be a poltergeist experience when I was cleaning houses in a retirement village in Connecticut.
That was my job.
I worked with my mom in the summers and I cleaned houses.
So I still can't really explain it in my mind.
Again, I'm on the fence.
Kelly, did you have any other ghost stories you wanted to tell us really quickly?
Like a really juicy one?
Me?
Yeah.
OK.
My grandmother, she she was a ghost.
Kind of a creepy little old lady, but she kind of had visions and things.
And she lived in a house by herself.
She slept on a couch downstairs.
Well, we lived in the house out back.
She called my dad and said, you know, there's somebody in my house.
So me and dad and mom, we all run in there.
We're looking in all the rooms and everything.
We didn't see anybody.
She says, I'm telling you, there was a man standing over me and he had a shovel over his shoulder.
And he looked at me and shook his head.
No one turned around, walked out the back side of the house.
Well, we kept looking and looking and looking.
I mean, it was a ghost.
It was a ghost.
It was a ghost.
It was a ghost.
I mean, all the windows and everything were completely shut.
I mean, if she was in there, there was no way we'd ever be able to get her out.
Well, the next day she swore to it.
So we had to stay up with her all night, you know, because this man was in her house.
The next day, our next door neighbor was found dead.
And she said that dad's come knocking and he was in the wrong house.
Holy crap.
Holy.
That's that's kind of a crazy story.
Yeah.
And when he believed it, she said that dad's come looking and he's in the wrong house.
And she said, I'm not going to let you in the wrong house.
She swore to that till the day she died.
I'm sorry.
What did the death figure look like?
She said he kind of looked like a coal miner.
A coal miner.
OK.
With a hat on and a shovel over his shoulder and bib overalls and work boots.
You know, maybe it wasn't death.
If it was a ghost, maybe he just scared the other person.
Well, whoever it was, it was what?
I said, whoever it was, it took the neighbor.
Wow.
That's craziness.
OK.
Really fast.
We are winding up.
Thank you so much for your a couple of your ghost stories, Kelly.
I know you've got a ton of them.
And sorry, we had to like really kind of like ran over time on the other show.
Oh, you're welcome.
I wanted to say really fast.
You don't have to go yet.
Health help for today.
Just wanted to let everyone know that I found out that UV light can kill germs so it can kill viruses and it can kill bacteria.
So I thought that was really amazing.
Something we can use for our house.
Houses that might be a little bit safer than chemicals.
I don't know.
I know Monsanto is going to like kill me right now.
But I'm just saying, you know, it might also be used in the future for a way to cure diseases and and things like that.
So I just want to know something really simple could cure anything.
We're just we're trying the hard route.
This might be something so simple.
They can't even think about it.
Uh huh.
Exactly.
And it could be something from the old knowledge, the witch days and all the herbal remedies that people had.
I mean, they they use three bars of things for aspirins and plants to cure people.
And now we're chemically dependent on pharmaceuticals and we're not using nature's bounty that's out there at the Lord.
Give us to use to heal each other.
And we'd rather go take a pill.
I love it, Kelly.
I'm right there with you.
I'm always trying to find natural cures, you know, nothing to be said against deeper.
You know, the.
The harder drugs that we might need is the last recourse.
But I just I personally feel it should be last last recourse, not a first recourse.
So.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Spencer, thank you for taking the our ribbing and also for, you know, defending the side of, you know, non scams and things like that so that people don't get scammed.
And I want to say to Dave Spinks, thank you for having been on our show, Kelly.
Thank you so much.
And you're welcome, Cindy.
All right, girl.
Thank you for having me.
We will, of course.
All right, everybody.
This has been the Sydney Silver Show.
Go to SydneySilverShow.com.
Check out our guests and see more episodes.
Bye bye, everyone.
Ying yang symbol.
Ying yang.
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