Parent support group discussion on childhood sexual abuse

After all you put me through You think I despise you But in the end I want to thank you Cause you made me that much stronger Well I thought I knew Hi this is Martha Nix-Wade With Anne Exposed Secret Thank you for tuning in We hope that today will be an amazing experience For you as I bring together Julianne Good who's one of our facilitators For our parent support group Along with Elizabeth Rivas who's been on our Previous shows and they did a phenomenal Job bringing together our new community Of parents who've experienced One of the most horrific Things you can experience as a parent To know that Your child was violated by someone Whom you trusted and At the time in which it Happened they felt that they had nowhere To turn and fortunately They were able to find Our support group for parents Of victims and come together and realize They are not alone And if you're listening today and you've experienced that That is the biggest thing we want you to know Is that you are not alone There's a community that would embrace you And speak open and honestly With you about what you're experiencing And I'm so thankful I have two couples with me Who have been in our parent support group And we're just going to talk today We're going to be just open about What we've learned And what we've experienced And some of the challenges That we've experienced right along with the triumph That each of us has experienced So I want to welcome Grace and David You can tell everybody hi And Michael and Sarah Hi And then Julianne Hello good evening Julianne first of all could you tell me What led you to come alongside of A Quarter Blue and be one of the Facilitators of this parent support group Thank you Martha yes Actually Elizabeth and I Went to school together over at Argosy University And she called me up one day And she said would you co-facilitate This group with me and I was very Honored and she gave me A little bit of Martha's background And a little bit of a Quarter Blue History And again I was very honored to be Asked and since I Am a survivor of Childhood sexual abuse I felt like I could add a little Bit of personal Insight and history in And I'm also completing my masters In psychology right now in marriage and family Therapy so I thought I could really help facilitate This group from two different perspectives And you did a phenomenal job Can everybody have a shout out For Julianne Thank you When you all first came to The first group what were some of your Fears about entering this room Of people From your experience what were those fears That were attached of just sitting down And being transparent with people whom you didn't Know We're going to cue crickets right Now Well I think One of the fears was just being open With people you didn't know about Strangers You never met before your Child and you're not! miał miał miał miał miał like maybe because I was afraid to be vulnerable in the beginning and um and at the same time I so didn't want to be alone in it anymore and um so I think maybe by the second or third time it it's just it felt natural and I felt able to share and it felt safe. Now David you weren't at our first week um is there something that changed in you at home where you decided that this was something you needed to come to and this was between you and your wife to come together in support of your child? She had mentioned about going to it and I I think what it had to do something with work where it was late and I couldn't we didn't plan for a babysitter I just stayed home with the kids um but after I went to first time I you know she asked me to go and this is something for us both to help our child and it uh after the couple times like she had said two or three times it it it brought up how there's feelings that I have that I haven't still haven't come across them yet because we still have a lot of unanswered questions and we were still working on it and at the time you knew your child had been violated but you didn't know by whom correct um we have an idea of it and we're still working on it it's still unknown totally what what what has gone on um we also uh after the second or third time I mean I felt more comfortable to talk and I think that helped other people and other people helped me with insight into where I was going where I'm at and where I was feeling but uh I'm glad my wife asked me to come I know it was amazing sitting there um every week and seeing you in this together um and I know um can you I know what you were experiencing before you came to the group within your marriages but could you share with the listeners about kind of the toll that this was taking and how it was radiating even into your marriages before you came what was taking place between the two of you and the two of you well for me I felt like I said alone with it I even you know my husband was at work majority of the time so many of the um circumstances in dealing with my child's emotions and um how he was handling things I was it was just me that was available to help him with that and I had no clue and so um then when my husband would come home then I would either need to like vent or unload it because it had been a huge emotional burden um or I would um be really upset upset and frustrated and that I didn't have the tools I needed to help him and he wasn't available to help him either. And so it was really just creating frustration and resentment and distance between us. And Sarah, I appreciated that this week we talked for a little bit and you shared with me about the impact, the positive impact it had upon your marriage by participating in this group. So can you share with the listeners kind of what you told me this week? Yeah, it actually for me, when I originally was going to go to this class, I originally was going for him thinking it was going to help him and his issues. And it really opened my eyes and made me realize that there was a lot of stuff that I needed to see and learn. I guess the perfect word that I would say is more naive. I wasn't educated about it, you know. The signs to look for and not like for me, I was always, he was wanting to reference certain things that would happen to her as she was going along and he'd want to say, oh, it's a possibility that it's because of this. And I was always so quick to say, no, it has nothing to do with that. And the class really opened my eyes at saying it's always a possibility. She did show signs and stuff, maybe not extremist to some cases, but it was there and it was a huge eye opener. And I think that's what I'm trying to do. That's where it started for us to start getting somewhere on the same page. And it's really brought you two together in your parenting. And have you seen a transformation in your child as the two of you have been working on each other and drawing yourselves closer together and learning how to parent differently and communicate differently? Yes, it's helped a lot. I mean, of course, there's still going to be struggles probably for the rest of our lives, but it's helped for us to know what we're dealing with and look deeper and not just be so quick with our first thoughts. Michael, what are some of the signs you saw in your child that led you to the discovery? Sure. The incident happened back in September 2010. The incident happened during Labor Day weekend. It took her two weeks for her to tell us. It was just out of the blue. One evening we were having dinner. And she had approached Sarah, explained what had happened. I kind of overheard. I was sitting in the same room and I looked at her and I just said, did I just hear what I think I did? And she said, yes. So we sat her down. We quickly questioned her. We didn't want to overwhelm her. We knew it was really emotional and tense in the room. And from that point on, it just took off. And we did what we needed to do. And one thing I explained to Sarah, right away, I said, as soon as we report it, it's going to, there's no going back. And it's been quite a surreal feeling over like the last two and a half years. Actually, in one of the, once she did tell us those past two weeks, I mean, things were starting to come so clear to us that you never would have thought of in a normal setting. You know, she started having accidents almost daily. She was getting to a point sometimes where she didn't want to sit next to a boy at school or the school had actually called us shortly after it happened and said she touched someone. And we were just like, didn't picture it all together until after, after the fact. So it. There was, there was a lot of guilt. There was a lot of guilt. There was a lot of just reflecting back. We, there was so much guilt and you know, why didn't we, as parents open our eyes and see this and, but then, but then if you look at it, how could anyone expect their four-year-old to be sexually abused? It just, no way. It's a difficult situation, but I appreciate you being open and honest so that others know, once again, they are not alone. And to have their eyes open to some of those changes in a child that if a child has been dry and not had accidents for years, and all of a sudden is starting to have accidents, then it's a difficult situation. And I think that's a good thing. And I think that's a good thing. And I think that's a good thing. And I think that's a good thing. There needs to be some investigation of if there is a trigger. And did you, Grace, see any changes in your child where it was one way, one time, and then something started to change? Yes, I did. One of the things that was, I guess, a sign was also accidents. My son was six, I believe. And so, you know, wetting the bed at night seemed like still part of that age group. Or not age group, but, you know, the... Like an age-appropriate. Age-appropriate behavior. Yeah, like they would still have accidents at six. And so it didn't stand out until later. When he was maybe closer to seven or seven and a half. And then the accident started happening in the daytime and where they hadn't been. And we had different signs like wiping poop on the walls. And that was, you know, when I asked my friends that had... Boys, we all agreed that we have messy bathrooms. And they were like, what? So I knew that it wasn't a normal age-related behavior. Julianne, can you share about some of those responses that kids have to trauma? Like wiping feces on the wall and having those accidents. Are those normal and what are other normal physiological responses? To sexual abuse or other traumas? Yes, I think that is one of the normal signs. You have to look at behavior that's out of the norm. That is almost shocking. And I think children start getting a lot more GI tracts situations like urinary tract infections out of the blue. Also problems with constipation or diarrhea and stomach problems. A lot of times they'll be complaining of nausea, sometimes vomiting. Also situations where all of a sudden they just do what's called disassociation. Which is just stopping and just spacing out all of a sudden. And then you'll be looking at your child and going, what's going on here? I don't understand because they just, they blank out. All of a sudden they're... They're not doing well. They're not doing well. They're not doing well. They're not doing well. They're in their own almost trance-like state. And you have to be aware of unusual behaviors like that coming out of the blue. David, are there things that you've struggled with as a dad with some of these responses that your child has had to the trauma? Yeah, I did. I did at the beginning and I almost didn't, came to a point where I didn't believe my wife. I was angry at him for not catching himself, for asking why he's putting it on the wall or wherever he's putting it. Trying to not react to that is very difficult because it's plain just gross. And not having of experience. That trauma yourself, you had no point of reference. No, I had nothing at all. I had nothing to go on. My wife would tell me, you know what, you need to take it down a notch and just walk away because it's not, he's not doing that to upset you. He's doing it because he's trying to tell us something. And come to find out, it's exactly what he was trying to do is tell us something. And that's why we're coming together and you guys are all taking the risk to be vulnerable. And share. And I appreciate that so much. Because if you don't have a place to turn and have these open conversations, you might think your child is, that something is seriously wrong that you can't fix. And with this, you can address the issues and go to the root cause and, you know, care for that child and rebuild them. Or something was, you know, tried to take them apart. You are in the process of restoring them. And I know that constantly. And I know that constantly. Julianne and Elizabeth and myself just looked at all of you so proud of how you were willing to take the risk to come together and to share openly and be vulnerable and honest. And now you're taking it out beyond the seven of you that were in the group to let others know that their children are precious. And they deserve the time and the attention to start the healing process. And it starts with healing your marriages together. And it starts with healing your marriages together. So that the child has a firm foundation to build their futures on. What were some of the experiences you had in the group that let you know that you're in a process and you are all going to be okay and better for spending the time in the group and being together? Were there moments where you saw hope? Michael, can you think of a moment within the group that really showed a time limit? A time limit. A time limit. A time limit. A time limit. A time limit. A time limit. A time limit. A time limit. of hope for you? I believe it was towards the end. I didn't have much hope at the beginning because our marriage was in shambles. The relationship with the family was very troubled, constant fighting. We had spent the last two, two and a half years, basically just roommates raising children together. There was no romance, no intimacy, nothing that we felt like a happy, healthy marriage and family. And that's what this class and support group brought to us. It brought back happiness. And we saw that towards the end, once we were given a better understanding and awareness of what the situation is and how to handle it. And it, like I said, awareness, it just, it, it opens your eyes more and it helps you understand more. And you know, Sarah talked earlier about, she was really just going for me. And that's funny because I was just really going for her. I wanted her to be aware more and I wanted her to see more, but. And we didn't notice at all. That's what both of you were thinking. But, but honestly, I did learn more. I did learn more how to react if I saw something that just wasn't right. Whether it be a nightmare or a wedding incident. I, it just, just had a, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, it just, I had to handle it and how to approach myself and my relationship with, with my daughter. It, it really helped. Can you think of an incident, Grace, where you saw a point of hope? I think for me, the second week again, and I think it was more that everyone came back and the fact that they came and they were willing to share was so, so comforting to me and they were real and they let me bring my stuff and they didn't reject me. And, you know, or get this, you know, shocked look on their face or they just let it be what it was and were accepting and encouraging even. And it was, and they were safe to talk to. And I really felt that I think even just, you know, I think it was so comforting to me. And I think it was so miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał and her daughter and so um i mean the first week really felt like it started but every week really bought brought a little bit more each week and we talked a lot about this is a process and it's going to take each and every day to choose to be on the path of healing and wholeness and i want to share in a minute after david shares about his point of hope about paths you all made as part of art therapy in the group and describe about the process of creating these paths which will actually be on display in upcoming months in our traveling art exhibit but david first share with us what was a moment of hope for you as part of as a participant in this group um going through the different feelings that you get um when you know something's happened to your child and you're going through the process of creating these paths and you're going through the process of creating these paths um in talking to michael and sarah and the other parents that were there is uh i know one distinct time that uh people are saying you know you don't know yet you have a lot of different things going on you'll find out at one of these days and then these feelings will come up even though it's this feeling of anger you'll have it michael told me he goes you'll have anger even though that's anger that's another step absolutely healing because i have a what if and we don't know and we're kind of like held out into the air right now because we don't know everything that's gone on and are what our son is telling his counselors um we don't have that but the fact that michael had told me one of these days you'll have the anger feeling and i took that as a step to grab to where even if i do get angry it'll be another step and it's hope to get past and over the so-called hump of what's going on with our son and how to keep going on the healing path absolutely anger is important and julianne could you share why you feel anger is important when you get angry over something that's happened to your child that's a violation well first of all it's an injustice it's probably one of the most important things that i've ever experienced and i think it's probably one of the most atrocious injustices that can happen to any of our children and um anger is really the other side of the depression and it needs to be expressed and it needs to be expressed safely and it is part of the healing process it's really important i think probably one of the most complicating and challenging things for being a parent for a sexual abuse survivor is wanting to go into that safe place of denial but denial it only lasts for so long and denial can come out in so many various forms of behavior and then it can come out in spontaneous anger and um just behavior that you do not want to be displaying as being a parent and an adult so i think it's really important again to safely miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał because it is such a natural part. It needs to be expressed. And that's why it's so important to have a group such as this. Michael, you want to share something? I definitely agree with everything Julianne just said. Anger, denial. That's why I had so much anger because sure, I would lie if I didn't say there was a little bit of denial at first because we never thought that our nephew, our family member, the person that we loved was capable of doing this. But we knew a four-year-old would not make something like this up. There was too many specific details. And we could see the pain and the suffering that occurred. And so that initial denial immediately turned to anger and it hurt knowing that a family member could do this to your child, to your loved one. And I think it helps listeners know that it's not just a matter of anger. It is a natural response to wanna be in denial at first. But what I really appreciate in all of you is that you're willing to say, as much as I wanna deny the fact that this happened, this is real. And if I deny this, then my child will not have a place to heal and be real. That is so important. You don't know how many adult victims that I work with that their greatest part of anger in their soul is toward the parent that didn't listen to them and believe them. You will not experience that. You are listening to your children. You are tending to their needs. And I ask every parent to slow down. Look, look into the eyes of your child, truly know who they are now. So if there's a change, you know you need to turn and investigate. And if they need help, that you get them the help that they need. And you are the examples for our listeners and the other people in our support group. And believe your children when they tell you. That is one of the biggest things because that's one of those things that I think a lot of adults will sit there and say, well, they're just a kid and they're just making that up or they're lying or whatever. So yes, definitely believe the children when they tell you, they have been abused and take the proper steps or go find the assistance to go make the proper steps is so important. I agree with you, Martha. Absolutely. If your child shares this truth with you, you do not need to approach the family member or the professional. That is not your job. It is your job as a parent to love that child, believe them and go to the authorities and let them do their job. Otherwise, we can impede the investigation. You need to allow the authorities to do their job and they're gonna do it to the best of their ability. And while our desire is that justice will happen on earth, that's not always true. I know that for you, Michael and Sarah, you didn't experience that where there was justice on earth as you think it should happen, but you've had to come to terms with that. That's correct. We made that mistake where we did approach the family. And we were, it was out of respect and we confided in them what our daughter had just told us. And reflecting back, it came back to hurt us. It was the biggest mistake we've made out of all this mess. And it's been a very trying learning experience for us. It's, we should have never have done it. We had hope and we had optimism that they would do the right thing and handle this appropriately. It was a very sensitive and no win situation for both sides, but unfortunately they didn't. They, by us telling them ahead of time, they had, they planned on, they had their plan in place and they did not cooperate at all with the investigation. And we were just very grateful that the case was still filed and we at least made it to the court system. But in no way should you feel guilty for not knowing. Not at first. I think any parent would feel, some sort of guilt, some sort of guilt, but it's been a very long, long process. And it's something that we're both well aware that it'll continue to be a process. And on that process, we go back to the path. And when you put that process on what was actually a piece of wood and with broken pieces of record, you created a path. And I'd love for at least some of you, I know Grace has an amazing story about her process in creating the path. But share with our listeners what it was like to put that experience on knowing you're on the healing path onto a piece of artwork. Grace, do you wanna start? Sure. Thanks. I guess we're talking about the deconstruction art project that we did towards the end of our group. And I didn't know we were going to be doing any, any art therapy. And now I'm so glad that that was a part of this because it had a huge impact on me. And it was so amazing to start with these torn pieces of stories and broken records and just pieces of things. And it was so representative of how everything felt like it was in pieces in our life because of this, because of our child being abused. And we have felt so in limbo. I felt so in limbo with it because we don't, at least at that time, we didn't know who, and we weren't, didn't feel like we were moving forward. So taking these pieces and putting them on this piece of wood and having this picture develop, this story develop, and this path develop was so incredible for me because I was doing it, you know, as a parent, from a parent perspective. And what came about for me was the, towards the end, was the, sorry, I'm trying to picture my heart and move long, was that it brought out healing for me as a child, as a childhood sexual abuse survivor. And that just was so incredibly healing. And I think freeing and validating, and it just, this work of beauty, this thing of beauty came out of all this brokenness. And that was such an incredible picture of hope for me. And, and about just for myself as a child that experienced that, and then also to have that, carry that hope forward for my son as well. And it was an incredible gift. Sarah, did you have an experience as you were creating this piece of art? Yeah, so describing the path, you know, my path started out, even though it was broken, it was still connected and together. And as I went along my path, I stacked broken records on top of each other, too, to indicate my mountain that I'm having to climb. You know, sometimes I'm at the top, sometimes I'm heading down the other side, or sometimes I've fallen back, just like if you slip and fall, but I'm still get back up and try to recline it and hope that at the end of the mountain, my pieces came back together and that's where I'm looking towards. So, I mean, today I'm on the bad side of the mountain. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be on a good side. So. That should be the name of a song. Yeah. A song or a book on the bad side of the mountain. Yeah. I know for me, cause I created it with you. And that was the point where I really, I turned to Julianne and I said, we're stopping this group too early. I'm like, this is too soon because my path was, every single piece was, you know, butted up against the other and it created this perfect, you know, trip to the Oz path. Cobblestone. Cobblestone, yeah. And. miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał one another and with our listeners about what's unique about being part of this community. David, can you share about being part of this community? Well, what we've seen so far and going through the group together and then doing the little things we've done outside, I haven't been a part of the art therapy, but I know my wife and my son are, and I know Michael and Sarah have been there. Um, I have, uh, I, it, we can come and talk and it's a safe place to talk. You know, we meet for dinner and the kids are with us and we, we have a chat about whatever we try and sell each other Girl Scout cookies and things. Um, but we know each other is safe in the fact that we know where each family is coming from. Um, we know what we have been through and where we've gone through and we know that we could probably pick up the phone and talk to him at any time. Michael, can you share about the community? Yes. Uh, just, uh, back what David had mentioned, um, just when this happens, you feel alone. You feel like there's no one to talk to, um, that no one to really experience what you've experienced. And, you know, with me personally, I, I attended anger management. Um, that was probably the worst thing I could have done because it did not manage my anger. Um, it masked it pretty much. Um, I tended a, uh, intensive therapy group for two weeks straight. And while it did help, um, at the end of it, I was just like, okay, well, what next? And the support group is the opposite. I, at the end of the eight weeks, we were like, okay, well, what? What? What's next as well. But that's why I've been very, um, grateful that we have continued this. And I'm happy that we have because then we, we continue. And one thing I've learned from you, Martha, is we don't get past this. We, we move forward. We don't move on. We move forward and we find ways to move forward. And I'm, that's what I'm very happy that we've been able to do. And as an organization, that is our long-term goal is not only to have the community, but right now we're a transient community. We meet in the back of restaurants, parking lots, actually a few parking lots. Um, but we want a place to call home. And so it's our desire to raise the funds to have a house called the dreams alive home. And, um, we've started a fundraising effort for that to have bricks that will be the healing path to the front door of the home. And there are ways to sponsor that. Um, there's a brick for $500 and there's a brick for a thousand dollars. At the same time, every amount of money goes to build a house. Every little bit helps with the mortar and everything we need to have this place called home. Because a lot of you have experienced that the home in which you chose to build was destroyed by a trusted family member. So we need a home, a new home, a community to come together. And to know that you can be real and you have a new family. So if you want to be a part of helping build the a quarter blue home, please donate at a quarter blue.org. That's a Q U a R T E R B L U E.org. And remember every amount that you give helps build a place for us to come together. So we're not having to meet in the back of parking lots or in the front of them or in the back of restaurants, or sometimes we're just smack dab in the middle of them. Cause. Yeah. They don't say of our back spot, but what would that mean to you to have a place to come together? Can you share with our listeners about that? And Julianne share too, because you know, as a survivor of sexual abuse and as a therapist, what that means to families? Um, just to have a, a safe and a secure place is, uh, incredible. We, with this group, we were lucky enough to have, um, an organization that Elizabeth works with donate their space. Thank you to Casa de la Familia. It was a blessing. Thank you. Definitely. So, um, but we're having to move around a lot, like Martha said, so it, it would be really wonderful to have just one home base that we could work out of and establish a foothold within the community. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. mean to have a place to call home with this family? It would provide hope. Something that we weren't sure that we were going to have. At first, we didn't really tell anybody. We didn't tell family. We were afraid to tell friends. We weren't sure how people were going to react. We've actually lost some friends and it's been a very hurtful experience, but you see your plans with the home and you see hope. And that's something that I'll do whatever I can to try to make that happen. Sarah, can you share what that would mean? It would mean a great deal just because when this first happened and you talked, when we did decide to tell family and friends and people were like, oh, you know, we're so sorry, but nobody could fully understand where we were coming from. And it just, once we came to this group and I would tell my story and it just seemed like everyone knew, oh, I had that same situation and was able to advise me on how to handle it. And it would just feel good to know, to have a place to go to where your stories would be alike and people could really truly suggest how to handle it or what step to take next. Do you have anything to add to that, David and Grace? I do. You know, the home I grew up in was full of depression and anger and fear. And so despite my best efforts, my own home as an adult, the home I tried to create for my children had a lot of those same elements in it because I carried that with me. And so coming together and forming this community and having a home, when you make these bonds, that becomes the safe place. And not having that as a child to come together and now have that is hope and comfort and security and all the things you were supposed to have when you were a child. And so I get to learn how to do it. I get to be a part of doing it and and and and and really, I don't, like give and take. It's just, you can't even describe how important it is to have that safe home. And when we come together as a community, that's what we have. And Grace, you're also participating in our women's support group, which has just begun. And we had, because of illness, we weren't able to meet for a couple of weeks, but we get back together tomorrow. And I know that you're excited to come back. So you see it as a parent and also from a childhood victim of sexual assault. And you're healing the whole person and the whole family. And it's just amazing to watch. It's really an incredible thing. I feel very blessed to get to be a part of the art therapy. And the support group and the women's support group as well. Because I get to have healing in my marriage, healing in my family, healing for my child and healing for myself as a child of survivor of sexual abuse. And it's, it helps you as you have to go back to your life and the daily things that you deal with and the pressures and the things that you're going through. And I think that's a really important thing. Situation that come up that maybe you don't know how to deal with, or the disagreements with your spouse, or the intensity with family members, or even with your own children, and throughout the week or weeks that go by, having this group to look forward to, it really helps you to handle those things with a little bit more of a mixed patience I mean I blow it so often but in in general knowing that I have a place to go and a place to share and a place to be heard is invaluable David what is the one thing you think dads need to know that most men don't I think a lot of dads I grew up as a my dad left when I was three two three something like that and I have had a stepdad since I was 10 but I the one thing that I could tell you to give to your kids is love hug them tell them you love them and listen to them well that's three things it's fine so give them to us one more time so we're loving listening and affirming them affirming like hugging them just physical love they they want it they need it safe say physical touch yeah that's what I'm trying to get across no that's that's perfect Michael what do you think dads are missing and they need to add from our or for my personal perspective our miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał miał! She never had any doubt that I wasn't there for her, that I never stood up for her. I wanted to show that to her and that I was going to fight for her. And so I want, my hope is that she does see that and, you know, that she does know that. And it just, it's being there. It's really being there. And Sarah and Grace, what do you see that women are missing in their parenting and what they need to really be mindful of as women leaders in their home? And Julianne, you're a woman and a mom also. Share what you think women are missing and they need to transform in themselves. I think you're right. I think they just need to be more mindful and observant of exactly what's going on with their kids and not brush off things so easily. And touch base with your children. Ask them what's going on every day. Ask them what's going on. Just sit down and even having family dinners together seems to be a thing of the past nowadays, which is really sad because sometimes that's when kids open up the most. They're getting relaxed. They're opening up. And just really be aware of what your kids are doing. You know, I know nowadays we're all so busy doing whatever and just trying to survive. But, you know, your children. Your children are your most precious commodity in your lives. And they need to be loved and cared for by you primarily. You are their world. Period. Grace, how about you? I think that it's so we're so busy, like you said. I mean, with school and sports and church activities and activities with friends and that and with parents working. And they're just. The day goes by so quickly that it's easy to lose track of each other. And, you know, you're trying to. The little bit of time you do have, you're doing laundry or trying to clean the house. And it's really easy to kind of live in a state of disconnect and not see the deeper things that are going on. And. I think that. You have to be intentional about paying attention to your your children and. Take the time to. Spend with them one on one and just even a tiny amount of time. I mean, once or twice a week, if your children are older, it just it keeps the it keeps it open for communication and and rather than all the rushing here. And. And two or even just having a conversation in the car on the way somewhere about, you know, what's going on with you and how are you doing and how that go and. You know, how are you feeling about this? And sometimes sharing about yourself, you know, is opens the door to something like the kids need really need to be able to connect with you. And so you have to be approachable. And that does take some effort. And it's so worth it when you do. And what do you think that kids need to see within marriages to create. Stability for them to be open and safe, like I know that Grace and David, when you started to bring about change in the marriage, your child felt safer to share about what was going on with a therapist. Can you share about that process and what was different that made him think that it was safe to share? Hmm. Well. My husband and I had been separated and I know that our son, part of the. Anger and intensity and temper tantrums and things were because he felt unsafe with us. He didn't feel secure with us. And even though we were living in the same home, we were. Like two totally separate people. We were roommates coexisting in the same house. And he that did not make him feel safe. And so. When we worked on our marriage and we started. Sharing. And community really working our communication again and. Try, you know, actively trying to spend time together. I guess that that came across in our relationship that the children saw that and they felt. Our kids felt more safe. And that's when. You know, it's kind of that's kind of a catch 22 because that's when some of the behaviors came that we were like, what is that? And what does that mean? And that was a huge blessing because that was, you know, they felt safe to tell now. So. You know, I. For us, that was. That's so important. And I'm so thankful that we're continuing on that journey. Of trying to. Of trying to stay connected to each other and working on our marriage. Because the more we do, the more I see the impact. On the children. That they feel safer to express. And they do. They express to us every day. If they see us. At odds and not talking to each other. They shut down and they get sneaky. With whatever they're doing. And we've got little ones still. They're still little. But when. They see her and I on firing on most cylinders. With the marriage. They are more willing to speak out. Speak up. Ask for help. And ask for help. Sure, we get a lot of wines. But they. They. They respond. Is there any cheese with that wine? Yeah, exactly. Okay. There's a lot of wines. There's a lot of wines. Is that because you wine? David. Kind of. So it's a learned behavior. Monkey see, monkey do. Have you seen any transformation in the comfort of your child. As you've started to become on the same page, Michael and Sarah? Not so much with Madison. In my eyes, it's really been with our other daughter, McKenna. When we had a lot of anger. Hostility. We always try to work really hard. To not do it in front of her. To not do it in front of them. But we knew there was a lot of tension. A lot of anxiety still present. And these kids are smart. And they pick up on it. And we noticed that even though McKenna is two years old. We were having biting problems at school. We were having behavioral issues. We even had her screened for ADD. As a two-year-old. It just. This type of thing opens your eyes up to so much more. There's so many more things that you just become aware of. And it's been. It's been a very, very hard experience. And as our communication has improved. We've noticed McKenna's behaviors have also improved. And it's just. It's a continual learning experience. You said something very important. And Julianne, I want you to emphasize this. We think we hide things from our children. Is that the truth? No. Don't. Period. We think we do. We think we can outsmart our children. But they're. Very intuitive. And they do pick it up. And they do make statements here and there about. You know. Mommy and daddy are acting this way or that way. And they'll call us on it. And I think every parent can attest to that. So. And I think especially. You know. After children have been abused. They end up getting even more intuitive. Because they have to. Absolutely. Because they have to learn new survival skills. Depending on what they've been through. They have to open up new channels. They haven't been opened up before. And then all of a sudden. Reality looks a lot different. So everything gets. Reality gets turned over. Pretty radically and pretty quickly. So. Yeah. Very, very smart after. I know one of the things we talked about. On one of our. Groups that we met together. Was that. What we model for our kids. Is how they're going to handle things. And. So if we're responding with anger to something. And. Just so you know. They're all giving her a bad time. Through not so subtle. Cues of. Hey the show's ready to end. And they know Grace really well. And they're like trying to give her the signal. Of 50 seconds. 40. So they're all like yucking it up over here. And leaving you out of the humor. But I just wanted to expose it. Because we are called. And expose secret. So that's the secret of this evening. Go ahead Grace. We're just going to let you talk for a minute. Thank you. You can see that that's one of the. The things that has been so special about this group. Is that we've gone from. Anger and. You know hurt. And. Betrayal. To within this little community that we have. Of acceptance. And even humor. So it's. It's just so incredible. That we get to do this together. And give this to our. Give this to our kids. This is what we get to hand to our kids. Is that we can do this together. This is how you do it. And that's one of the best things about this group. And about the goals. Of a quarter blue. That we get to move forward in life. And we get to do it together. And what an awesome privilege that is. To be with each other. And it's been awesome to be back together. And we missed some of you. That weren't here tonight. But you know what. We want you to know that. We are a place where you can be heard. And be you. And there's always a place to turn. With a quarter blue. And you can go to our website. At a quarter blue dot org. You can send us an email. At info at a quarter blue dot org. Or go on our Facebook accounts. We have an exposed secret. A quarter blue and stopping childhood sexual abuse. And we need you to reach out. And quote unquote. Like us. And support us. And pass on these downloads. To your friends and family members. For you truly do not know what they are going through. And they also might need to know. That they are not alone. And they have a place to turn. So please get these downloads out. And let your community know. That there is a place to turn. Thank you for being part of our podcast this evening. And thank you all of you for being here. I appreciate you being here. And being open and honest with our listeners. Good night. Good night. miał miał miał It was the first thing she's done in a while that wasn't funny. And Katie Holmes is finally finishing her five-year search for a good divorce lawyer. She and I can finally go out in public. It was like he studied for the part of you're a heterosexual in love and then went out and completely played it wrong. That's interesting because I was going to say that that marriage was less believable than Katie Holmes and Batman. But that's the weekly wrap-up. Every Sunday, 7 o'clock Eastern, 4 o'clock Pacific time at skidrowstudios.com. Please join me, Wyme Russell, here live at skidrowstudios.com for the Devils in the Details radio show Fridays from 2 to 3 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. We cover everything from conspiracy theories to the truth movement. Please join us. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.