Veteran homelessness in LA, housing initiatives, and Opportunity Space

Jeff Norman, The Norman Report. Good evening, everybody. Jeff Norman on The Norman Report. And tonight we're going to talk about homelessness in the veteran population. We have with us here in the studio Rick Reyes, or as he's sometimes known, Ricardo Reyes. And we can say it either way, Rick. Either way works. And on the phone, Christina Garmendia. She's with a very unique, innovative organization called Opportunity Space based in Boston. How are you, Christina? Are you on the line? Yes, I am. I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Well, I'm sure it is a pleasure to be wherever you are because where we are is incredibly hot. It's like doing a radio show in a sauna. And I'm just going to assume it's more comfortable wherever you are. I won't. I'm going to pry. And I wanted to have you on from the beginning, Christina, just in case you want to interject with any questions. But I kind of wanted to focus on Rick first because he's more familiar with the situation here in L.A. And I think that might be more meaningful for the audience to just kind of lay it out in that way before we focus on what you and your organization does and how you might be able to help the situation here in L.A. Does that make sense? Sounds great. Okay. So don't be shy about chiming in if something occurs to you, but don't feel obligated either. And Rick Reyes is a visionary. He's a veteran. He served in Iraq. He served in Afghanistan. And I've known Rick for a few years. He works for – he's so talented that he works for two different organizations at once. It's a unique partnership between the L.A. County. The Federation of Labor and the United Way of Greater Los Angeles. He's the Veterans Employment Coordinator for both. Correct. And before we talk about what you're doing right now, I wanted to tell folks a little bit about what you did a few years ago. And if you go to NormanReport.com, it links to a recent column written by Steve Lopez of the Los Angeles Times. And the subject of that column… It's a very interesting column. …is Rick Reyes. Or actually, it was Ricardo Reyes. Ricardo Reyes. It was Ricardo Reyes. Rick Reyes is not getting any publicity, but Ricardo Reyes is famous. And what Rick did a few years ago is just remarkable. He is a guy who cares very much about the plight of veterans. And he became aware that housing facilities for homeless veterans, transitional housing, different kinds of services along those lines, were treating veterans. And he was able to get veterans in a way that didn't seem entirely kosher. And Rick felt that the way to get a handle on that was to go undercover posing as a homeless veteran so he could see how veterans in shelters are treated. Now, what gave you that idea, Rick? Well, thank you, by the way, Jeff. It's a pleasure to be here and to be able to talk to you about these issues. When I first transitioned out the military, like most cases, I struggled to translate my military experience, my military skills, into something employers can understand. I found it extremely difficult. So after several months of searching for work, and this was sometime around 2005, after several months of searching for work and just coming up unsuccessful, I ended up taking a job as a furniture mover for below minimum wage. I think it was like $7 an hour at that time. And obviously, I just couldn't support myself. I couldn't support my family. It just wasn't enough. So about six months into that job, I started looking for other opportunities. And this was during the real estate boom. And I didn't have any prior knowledge of real estate or real estate finance. I just knew people were making a lot of money. And I figured that could be something that I can do and be able to support myself in my career. And I figured that could be something that I can do and be able to support myself in my career. And I figured that could be something that I can do and be able to support myself in my career. So I got licensed. I became a real estate agent. And then shortly after, I became a realtor. But what really interested me was real estate finance. So I did that for a few years. And I basically rode that bubble through 2008, 2009. And when the bubble burst, at that time, I had purchased a home. I had some rental property. I was building a four-bedroom house out in Vermont. I was in Palm Desert. And all my earnings I reinvested back into real estate, thinking I was doing the responsible thing by buying rental property, investment homes, that sort of stuff. And during the crash, I found myself needing to support families who were in risk of losing foreclosure. So for about a year, I donated all my time and resources in helping families out of foreclosure. And obviously, I couldn't support myself that way. It wasn't a sustainable model to donate all your earnings and not really charging anyone anything for the services you were providing. But I felt it was my responsibility to do that because I felt it was the right thing to do. And so then I found myself struggling financially. And my mortgage began to adjust. This was sometime in 2008. My mortgage began to adjust. And at one time, it rose all the way to over $5,000 a month, which I clearly couldn't afford. And my bank at that time just wouldn't help me. It wouldn't help me modify my loan. So I was forced into a short sale. And I had to find other dwellings. So through that experience, I just realized how easy it was for someone to lose their home, even though they were earning really well. And just because there was a turn in the economy, everything just kind of turns on its head. Right. Just from one minute to the next, you can go from being this big real estate guy where you not only have one home, but you have investment properties. Correct. Just in a flicker of an instant to being homeless. Correct. You saw that that was a real possibility. I definitely did. And I knew this wasn't only happening to me. I knew this was an isolated case. I knew veterans were facing similar circumstance. And maybe those veterans didn't find the opportunities I did. Knowing that I did really well, I still found myself in a place where I was at risk of losing my home. Losing everything. Just ending up on the street. That wasn't quite what took place. But it could have easily had what happened. And so I found myself just being really interested in the housing issue. The entire housing problem that we had. And I wanted to start a nonprofit to provide suitable housing to veterans at risk of losing their homes or those at risk of becoming homeless. Or just to kind of need a place to plant their feet. And figure out what they're going to do with the rest of their lives after transitioning out of the military. So then I figured the best way for me to have a clear understanding of how programs are being delivered is to go through a program myself. So I posed as a homeless veteran, like you said. And I checked into a shelter. And I stood in the shelter for about maybe close to six months just to get a really concrete understanding of how these services were being delivered. Do you want to say which shelter it was? No, no. And the reason why I don't, because I never made it. This was never about the shelter or the program itself. This was about the culture being built on how these services are delivered. Right. Especially to our veterans. Plus they might sue you for the services that you enjoyed. There's that possibility. Right. I'm sure that would come out to be in the hundreds. Right. Yeah. The value of the services they provided. And it was really eye-opening. I mean, my first experience, what was shocking to me was not the treatment yet, but just how many young veterans were in that shelter who were homeless. I mean, to me that was just... That was an eye-opener for you. Absolutely. I couldn't believe it. How could this population who've put everything on the line to support our freedoms and defend our country... Was it more a reflection of the state of the economy and the housing situation or more a reflection on the emotional or psychological condition of these veterans? Well, I think it was a little bit of everything. And this was already sometime in 2010. So a couple of years have already gone by from the time there was this huge economic collapse, the mortgage crisis, until the time that I checked into the shelter. And I think by 2010 there was already kind of like a slight recovery. Right. So what was it like in this shelter that shall remain unnamed? Like I said, the first thing that I found shocking was just the number of young veterans that were checked into that shelter. Right. The second thing that really struck me was how these veterans were placed in the general population, for lack of a better term. You refer to it like a prison. That's a term that's used in prisons. The general population. Right. Right. And what I mean by that is there was a lot of folks who were... Keep in mind, the population of veterans that I'm referring to, these are young veterans, maybe mid to late 20s at most. Really young individuals going to school. One of them in particular was on his way to becoming a doctor who happened to be homeless. And to place this group of individuals with five or six veterans in a shelter. Which the county attempted to do the attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted attempted that are only for veterans, correct? Correct. But isn't there something to be said about the need to integrate with the population? Isn't that a part of transitioning back into civilian society? Well, this isn't a reflection of the entire population. This is still a very minor demographic who kind of find themselves in these hardships and in need of these type of services. It's not a clear reflection of the population. And I can't really think of anything more damaging to a veteran's successful transition or reintegration back into society than placing them into one of these shelters. Well, what happens in these shelters? Tell us, paint us a picture just briefly of what a day is like there and just the basic nature of the treatment. Well, at that time I was working, I was going to school. I was working part-time and I was going to school. So. You're supposed to, you're supposed to check in. You're supposed to sign into a binder maybe twice throughout the day. And then one last time in the evening. If you're someone that's really trying to get yourself back on your feet and trying to remain productive, even though you're in this really desperate situation because you want to keep a healthy mental state of mind, you try to remain productive. You want to give something back to society, even though there's not much you can give. You can give your time. You can volunteer. You can do the business. You can do the business. as I was doing at that time. And I found it extremely difficult to be able to do that when I had to always come back and sign the binder and then go back about my business. And the idea of signing the binder is just because they want you back there? I mean, is that... For accountability purposes, I'd imagine. But if someone's in dire need, you probably, there's chances are you don't have transportation or reliable transportation. So it's not easy to get back. Plus, you may be out going to classes, you may have a job, so forth and so on. Correct. At the very moment you're trying to get your life back together, they're requiring you to go sit in their facility for no particular reason, right? Well, what I discovered is that you have to be out of there by 7 a.m. And because you have to return, you have to be back sometime in the afternoon to sign that binder. So if you have a job that starts at noon and it's... Tough luck. They don't adjust for that. You just have to wake up at 6.30 and then go out for a few hours. Right. So what I discovered is that a lot of folks who get up and leave the shelter at 7, they don't stray too far from the shelter just because they have to be cognizant of that check-in time. Right. So they kind of just loiter. Because it's not easy for them to get back. Right. In most cases, they don't have reliable transportation and whatever methods of transportation, they do need, they're probably very thoughtful how they're going to utilize that. Right. So this is just driving you nuts. So you can see that this is not the kind of housing that veterans need or deserve. Correct. And I know you've been talking about this for years. And finally, Steve Lopez wrote a column about it. He got an email from you a few years ago, right? It was during that time. Yeah. And he just dug it up recently. And well, so good for him. I mean, he's a busy guy. I certainly don't want to disparage him. But the point I'm trying to make is, I think that the... the stars are aligning now in such a way that things can really get accomplished. Michelle Obama just spoke here in Los Angeles last week as part of a program sponsored by the United Way of Greater Los Angeles. Tell us about that. Yeah, it was an event that United Way sponsored in collaboration with the mayor's office, Mayor Garcetti, USC, and the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor. And I think there was one more partner. I can't recall their name. I think San Francisco Bank, something like that. And they came together with a program called Unite for Veterans. And it's really to... This program was intended to bring different stakeholders of the community all together in one room and ask them to commit, to make a real thoughtful commitment about how they're going to support veterans. And... And... And the different stakeholders that were brought together were business leaders, nonprofit leaders, government, that sort of stuff. But what was unique about this particular event was that the building trades were also in the room, which is often the missing piece when we're talking about supporting our veterans. Right. And Michelle Obama was there, the first lady. And the main topics discussed were housing and employment. And the different initiatives that are taking place, like the mayor's 10,000 Strong Initiative, which we're also a huge partner of. United Way has committed to helping place 5,000 veterans as part of the 10,000 Strong Initiative, which is placing 10,000 veterans into employment. And also... And we... That goal is supposed to be met by 2017. And the other initiative that was highlighted was... And the other initiative that was highlighted was... The Housing Initiative to Eliminate Housing, Chronic Homelessness by 2015. Right. And the first lady came and was excited that the mayor signed on to the pledge of the Mayor's Challenge to Eliminate Chronic Homelessness Among Veterans. Well, it's great that the first lady came, and I salute United Way for making that happen. The footage that they shot, though, has some audio problems, so I'm not sure that the audience is going to be able to hear this. But... Let's give it a shot. We have some footage of Michelle Obama speaking at this event. The audio is very low, so those of you listening at home, maybe crank up your volume as high as it can go, and we'll see if this will be audible. This community is also tackling a problem that this country has tacitly accepted for far too long, and that is homelessness among our veterans. So when I heard that this mayor, was joining the Mayor's Challenge to End Veteran Homelessness by the end of 2015, I couldn't have been more excited. I really couldn't have been more excited. Because we can't end homelessness without all of you. More than one out of every 10 homeless veterans in America lives right here in Los Angeles, as the mayor said. And that's more than any other community in the country, more than 6,000 veterans in total. And I know that's a big number. And make no mistake, it is an aggressive goal. But we have seen time and time again that if you break these numbers down, if you work on the ground with landlords to find open apartments, with developers to build new housing, if you rally community groups and congregations and businesses around this issue, then this problem becomes imminently solvable. That's what they realized in Phoenix, Salt Lake City, where they've already effectively ended chronic homelessness among their veterans. And down in New Orleans, they've committed to end all veteran homelessness in the next six months. And they are on track to do it today. And here in LA, the United Way, the Chamber of Commerce have brought public and private partners together for this incredible program called Home for Good. And together you have housed more than 50,000 veterans, and you have brought them home. And you have brought them home. We're the largest state-funded county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. We're the largest county in the state. attending homelessness here in Los Angeles. And, you know, what once seemed like pie in the sky kind of a thing now seems more doable because of what happened mostly in Phoenix. Every single veteran that used to be homeless in the city of Phoenix now has housing. And Los Angeles is not Phoenix. You know, there's a lot more here, so I don't know if we can actually house 100% of all currently homeless veterans. But just the fact that they've done it there and it's happening in other cities, it really makes it seem doable now, don't you think? Yes, I believe so. And like the First Lady said, it's a very aggressive goal and very ambitious goal. But I think bringing all these different stakeholders and creating a plan that's clear-cut that everyone can become a part of, I think it's an achievable goal. So the United Way's Home for Good initiative, they've been able to successfully place 9,000 veterans into housing over the last three and a half years. So it's a goal that's achievable, especially getting all these stakeholders together and making this commitment. Now, stakeholders is a buzzword. And what it implies, and I want to emphasize this because it may not be something that's clear to everybody, is that the population is diverse. And I think one of the keys to the success in Phoenix is that the mayor who led the effort there didn't rely on only the usual suspects, so to speak. There were all different segments of the population involved in that. And that's what I find very inspiring. And we're doing a campaign here in Los Angeles called Home Front Rising, which is based on that same idea of housing first, which means you get them in a home first and then you bring the services to them. Correct. Housing first. And then the other aspect of it is that you don't just look to government or the usual nonprofits. You bring in artists and architects and all kinds of creative thinkers who, like you, I mean, you're a visionary and it's great that you got this job at the United Way now because you're exactly the kind of person who has fresh ideas, although your actual job duty is to focus on jobs, right? Correct. As of now, employment. Right. Now, but that's still connected to housing because what you, you have done is you've gotten the trade unions involved, the people who construct homes. Correct. Right. So that's where you can play a role with solving the housing problem, even though your official focus is jobs, right? Absolutely. And this is the first time, right? Is that correct that an initiative like this has involved labor coming together with business and other segments of the population? Yes, it is. It's the first program of its kind across the country. Tell us about that, please. Well, it was a partnership that was created between the L.A. County Federation of Labor and the United Way. The position is the Veterans Employment Coordinator position. It's really bringing labor as a key player in the employment initiative because the building trades offer a really great alternative to many of the opportunities that were currently offered to veterans. And this isn't just me speaking, but, you know, just talking to different stakeholders, like you said, different nonprofits and the HR community and hiring managers and other veteran service organizations. The theme that I constantly hear is that a lot of the employment opportunities being offered are entry-level positions that are very low paid and often don't offer any good benefit packages. Right. What they offer is PR. PR value to the employer. Right. Correct. And as First Lady mentioned, what makes this 10,000 Strong initiative different is that the conversations are on good quality jobs, something that someone can make a living off of. As I said earlier, when I first discharged from the military, the only employment that I could find was a $7-hour job as a moving furniture, which I didn't feel was a reflection of my service because in most cases, on average, veterans who discharge, they discharge as non-commissioned officers, meaning that they're your corporals and your sergeants, which is the equivalent of a manager. But a lot of these veterans aren't being offered these kinds of positions because we just haven't figured out a way to translate our skills and our military experience in a way that employers can understand. It's getting lost in translation. So what union trades offer are good quality middle-class jobs with great wages, great benefits, and a lot of safety and security. On the low end, we're talking about maybe $15-an-hour jobs as opposed to a $9-an-hour job. Yeah, it makes a big difference. Yeah, and just today, I spoke to a veteran who was interested in the building trades, and the position that he was in and what he was able to obtain through some of these employment initiatives was a $9-an-hour job without any benefits. Luckily, he's still in his mid-20s, so he's able to get health care through his parents. But this is someone that deployed and served our country. Why should he have to settle for that? He should be able to afford his own health care because it also, again, it's just a reflection of your service. You feel you've served your country, so you should be offered a fair shake. Right. All right, well, I appreciate the uniqueness of how this initiative involves really stepping things up for labor. And I think that's one thing you share in common with Christina Garmendia of Opportunity Space, who's on the line with us, because what she's doing with her organization, I think is also, if not completely unprecedented, rather rare. And I want to talk to her about it. And I would like to look for a way to connect the dots here. I think I see it. And I look forward to having this conversation. Let's take a break and towel down. It's incredibly hot here. Possibly, I think I've lost six pounds already from sweating. And while we take a break, we're going to show a little bit of footage of Christina so you folks can see what she looks like and get a little introduction into Opportunity Space. And we'll be back in just about 45 seconds. government doesn't even know what it owns as a worse inventory than your average shoe store Opportunity Spaces is a data hub and collaboration platform. government doesn't even know what it owns as a worse inventory than your average shoe store Okay, well, we have a problem with the video. Maybe it's too hot for the machine to function properly. We'll link to that video from our website, normanreport.com, but at least folks got a little opportunity to see Christina. Christina, are you still with us? I am. So your company is called Opportunity Space, and as I understand it, what you basically do is find property owned by government. It could be local government, cities, counties, states, occasionally federal government, perhaps, and you help connect citizens who have ideas on how to allocate unused or underused space. Is that pretty much it? Yes. So Opportunity Space is a for-profit real estate technology. It's a technology company with a social mission. So like you said, an opportunity for focusing on repurposing the surplus and defunct land and buildings to really reflect the needs of their communities today. And so the tools and services we offer help cities and states primarily identify their real estate resources. While we streamline access to that information using technology. So our website is opportunityspace.org. Okay. And I mentioned a few minutes ago that so far as I know, it's a pretty unique concept. Can you clarify whether or not my hunch is correct? To what extent are there other people doing this? Are you the first or among the very few or what? Yes. Yes. We are on the very frontier of... So we're kind of sitting in this civic technology space. And real estate technology is a growing field as well. So the idea of bringing real estate information online, like you said, is not new. It's been done for commercial real estate with CoStar, with residential real estate, with Trulia and Zillow. And kind of the black box is government-owned real estate. Okay. And one important thing to consider is that government is the largest owner of real estate in this country. More than Donald Trump? Yeah, more than Donald Trump. I don't believe that. I'm going to need to see some documentation. Well, the amount has yet to be truly quantified. There was an Economist cover story a month or two back that talked about the extent of federal holdings. But state and local governments... Like you heard in the clip, they usually don't even know what they own. So in our experience, governments, city, state, et cetera, own between 10 and 30% of the land area in any given city. Wow, that's quite a bit. And so what kind of... Maybe it varies from situation to situation, but in general, what kind of an attitude do they have? Are they happy when someone like you steps up to offer... To offer your services to help them figure out what property they have? Or is it just bothersome? Or does it hurt their ego that they failed to keep track of this property? What sort of reaction do you get from city officials? Oh, it's all of the above. I mean, it's... Like, we're... So civic technology, open data, kind of the beginnings of that area of expertise has been about government transition. And so we're starting to see more of a transparency and providing accountability and more of a stick than a carrot. But what we're trying to do at Opportunity Space, and I think the new wave of startups in this space, are trying to make it more of a carrot. So how can being transparent and open lead to positive? So how can it be innovative and lead to economic development? And how can they basically... How can they do more with what they have? So we're really trying to reframe this particular issue from... Like companies, many companies like the Targets and Walmarts of 10 years ago, they also weren't doing a great job of being efficient with their real estate resources. They didn't have very good systems in place. So now it's time for governments to take some of the good things about corporate asset management. And apply it to what they do. Well, can you give us an example of a success story? Either something that's already come to fruition or something that looks like it's headed towards success of an example of you finding some property or your company finding some property and connecting it with citizens who have a great idea on how to allocate it. Yeah. So one of the things that we helped out with in Louisville, Kentucky... So we're live in five cities. We're in five cities. We're in five cities today. And right now we're gearing up to be in many more. But one of the first cities we were in, we partnered with the Bloomberg Innovation Delivery Team there, which is specifically looking at vacant and abandoned property issues to help them sponsor a vacant lot competition. So in Louisville, Kentucky, we mapped just under 10,000 government-owned properties. Of those, 450 are owned by their land banks. So these are vacant properties. So these are vacant properties. So these are vacant properties. So these are vacant lots scattered across the city. So for this competition that they held, all of those lots were eligible. And what they did was really open it up and offer the prize to this competition. If you were to win with your creative, scalable idea would be the property for which you applied and then a small cash grant to help cover the cost of putting in place your idea. the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money the money emissions and the city was able to actually find more funds in order to fund more of the ideas, which are pretty great. So some of them were temporary use. So how can we take vacant lots and reinvent them for temporary use? So from lavender gardens to supportive housing. So Habitat for Humanity was trying out new models, including extreme affordability housing for the very poor. So they were able to be given these lots by the city in order to contribute and support these new initiatives and innovations to support affordable housing. Right. Now you mentioned vacant lots, but what you really do is find property and sometimes the property is a vacant lot and other times there's a building there that perhaps needs renovation, right? Exactly. Yes. So governments own and their surplus property includes regularly fire stations and schools, armories. So there's a great deal of property that governments own that people aren't really aware of. Well, okay. So let's connect the dots. So you heard Rick and Rick is talking about how he is working with labor and particular the construction industry here in Los Angeles. We have a mayor who has publicly proclaimed a commitment to end veteran homelessness in Los Angeles. We have the president and the first lady promoting and supporting this effort. Am I crazy or is the time unbelievably ripe? We have an opportunity here, don't we? I agree. Tell us about, I'm sorry, Rick just mentioned Prop 41. Let's just make sure people know what he's talking about. What's Prop 41? It's a ballot initiative that was supported during the primary election, which was in July. No, back in June. And what Prop 41 does is it relocates CalVet funds that are intended for home loans into housing initiatives. Or for low income housing and homeless, right? This was money that was already allocated for home loans and it wasn't quite being used because a lot of people can't afford homes and also because there's not really better terms than the kind of loans they can get anyway. So then there's a bigger need amongst the homeless and low income people. Right. Right. So there's that too. And I'm glad you mentioned that. Okay. But sorry for the interruption, Christina. What were you going to say? Oh, sure. So the usual government resources for us to bear on this issue, as you guys have mentioned, are at the federal level. So the VA and HUD in partnership with the local nonprofits. I think what's been less considered is the resources that state and city government can also contribute. So leadership is an important one. The Mayor of Phoenix and Mayor Garcetti are demonstrating that leadership at the city level can really rally the resources to address this issue more systematically. Why what we do at Opportunity Space is important to this discussion, I believe, is we bring visibility to the local nonprofits. We bring visibility to the local nonprofits. We bring visibility to the local nonprofits. We bring the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the really great organizations that are doing a tremendous amount of work in this space and providing housing for veterans is U.S. Vets. They really rallied behind the Prop 41 initiative, and they did a tremendous amount of work in supporting that effort. And there's stakeholder meetings that take place. One of them just took place last week on Wednesday, a Prop 41 stakeholder meeting here in L.A. I think there might be more, so you just kind of have to go online and take a look. And also United Way has a great housing initiative called Home for Good, which is also focused on providing housing to veterans. And I think I mentioned this earlier, over the last three and a half years, they've been able to successfully place 9,000 veterans into housing. So there's going to be a greater need for that effort. So I'd encourage poor Christine to also get involved with Home for Good as well. Right. Well, that's what we, I mean, here at the Norman Report, this is sort of... This is sort of the role we play, connecting the dots. This is, you know, a little bit of a hybrid of journalism and advocacy. So I think we can play that role. Now, you've got relationships, presumably, with people in the real estate business, right? You're dealing with the trade unions, but the trade unions are dealing directly with... The contractors. Contractors, right. Correct. Not the kind that kill people for the mafia, right? No, that's different. It's different. So what I think we... I mean, I don't think there are many other pieces to the puzzle, right? We need contractors, we need property, and we need to make a deal with the city, the county, whatever it might be, right? Correct. All right. So can you go to your contacts and say, well, here we have an idea here. Can you... Yeah, absolutely. Of course. That's fantastic. So, Christina, talk to them. Tell them, what do you need specifically? By tomorrow at three, we'll have a Veterans Village built. You watch. Well... How does it usually... I mean, you've been through this before, so you could probably turn this... I'm kidding, of course, but you could probably say in some concrete terms how we could proceed. Yes, I think so. So for Los Angeles in particular, since you already have a mayor that's demonstrated commitment to this issue, this is just one example of how... Getting a hold of your resources can be actually applied to the promises you make. So I think that's a very important criteria that we look for when we're looking for an expansion city. But also, we have a pretty good... We've done an initial audit of Los Angeles and Los Angeles County in terms of what are the ingredients they have in order to make this kind of audit. And understand... And knowledge possible. The knowledge of the real estate resources they have to bear on this issue. And there's a good starting point as far as the open data that they have available related to their real estate resources. So surplus property and the like. But there certainly is more. And that is the unknown. So as far as reaching... What I would need is... To be able to reach the decision makers. And understand what are their current practices. And what are their current initiatives related to this. So that's... And I'd love to hear more about what both you, Jeff, and Ricardo think are the challenges that Los Angeles and Los Angeles County would face in terms of implementing. And what challenges would they face in terms of this kind of solution. So what challenges would they face in terms of utilizing city and state property for addressing the homelessness issue among the veteran population? Right. Well, I don't know exactly what might be unique as far as relating to government officials. But one thing that strikes me as unique here is just the sheer numbers we have. You know, as I mentioned before, Phoenix, you know... Absolutely. I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think... I think just a few hundred people here. What are the numbers here, Rick? I'm not good on statistics. But we have more, I think, homeless veterans than anywhere in the state and maybe anywhere in the nation, right? Well, we... LA County has the largest population of veterans in the entire state. I think it's roughly close to 36,000 veterans just in LA County alone. I can't recall how many of those are homeless. But I believe it's somewhere in the ballpark of maybe close to... I want to say 20%, but that might be a little high. I can't recall. But it's definitely a very large population of veterans who are... And we're talking about chronically homeless. Right. Those who have, you know, been an extended amount of time on the streets. Yeah. So that's one unique hurdle. Another is... And I don't know if this is unique to our area, but it was... It's sort of the reason that there's a big controversy at the VA. I don't know if you know about this, Christina. And it has to do with NIMBYism. Not in my neighborhood. The VA in Westwood is unique. And the ACLU filed a lawsuit based on what was in the original deed from the property owners. And they stipulated in the deed that it was to be used for permanently housing veterans. And the property is not used for that purpose. In fact, they rent it out to corporations. They don't have... They don't have... They don't have... It's not the only thing they do. But among the uses of the land is rental property for corporations. So they're not using it for what was stipulated in the deed. And the ACLU filed a lawsuit against the VA about that. And a lot of folks believe that the reason that... And it's a huge campus, Christina. That's the thing also that I should point out. I don't know how many acres. But it's very, very large. And it's in, you know, one of the most desirable neighborhoods anywhere, really. And most people, you know, who are familiar with the situation believe it's because the neighbors don't want a bunch of homeless veterans to invade their neighborhood. So I think, you know, as I'm saying that, I'm also thinking that as much as that's an obstacle in that particular area, it might actually create an opportunity. But I think it's a very, very large area. And I think it's a very, very large area. And I think it's a very, very large area. And I think it's a very, very large area. Because we don't have to be in that neighborhood. You know, I mean, if the VA isn't going to do it, then we got to do it somewhere else. Right. And I looked at the figures. And this was a report that the United Way commissioned a couple of years ago. So what they found is that 4,600 veterans are homeless and about 65% of those aren't in shelters. So these are folks that are just on the street. Is there a particular office? Christina, that makes sense to contact initially, you know, in general when it's like, hey, we want to talk to you about land or property that you own and may not know. May not know you own. So usually, so in L.A., it would be Department of General Services. So one challenge that we face in our work and why our company exists is that real estate management, it's scattered across many departments within a government. So there's not just one that has a complete understanding of their resources. But in general, we've been trying to bring this issue up to the office of the financial officer, so the CFO or the Department of Administration. So in L.A., that would be the Department of General Services. They're the ones that manage. They manage the surplus property auction for L.A. City. And then as well as their tax for closed and tax defaulted property. That's done at the L.A. County level. So those are where we would go first is they already know. They know it's part of their job, right, to manage property. And next would be broadening the pool. And then they would be able to get the money to the people who can help provide resources to address this issue. So other departments that manage property include school departments. And school districts usually don't want to sell their schools because, one, they're expensive to build. They might want to temporarily close a school if it's being a charter school or the population has shifted around. So that's the challenge. And then they're also going to be, you know, they're expensive to demolish. So that's something to consider is, you know, opening up the solution set and opening up the number of stakeholders they're engaged with. You know, they have problems that need to be addressed as well. So what are less expensive options for them in terms of managing their real estate that also gives them good PR, that also solves, you know, solves their problems, and that's the challenge of finding uses or finding tenants for real estate they have to manage. Okay. So I think what we could, one thing we could do is try to come up with some specific names for you. There are probably people, United Way is a very powerful and effective corporation, not corporation, but organization. I guess it is a corporation, but I didn't mean to say that. Okay. And so perhaps you could ask around on behalf of Christina. Yeah, of course, whatever I can do to help. That would be great. So I'm involved in organizing stand downs. Stand downs are events that usually last either one, two, or three days in a particular location. And a bunch of different veteran service providers gather in this location and provide free services to mostly homeless veterans. And this November 15th is our third annual downtown Los Angeles stand down. And those of us who are involved in doing this feel a little frustrated that there's, it's a bit of the same old, same old. We see some of the same faces coming back. The veterans are, they come, they know that they can get their freebies. And, you know, even though some of them do wind up getting connected with services in an ongoing way, it doesn't really, we feel like we could do a lot more. Yeah. So I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We would want to do a lot more, especially in the area of housing. And so this year we thought rather than simply have another stand down, we would organize a campaign around it. And in the weeks and months leading up to it. And that's the Home Front Rising campaign that I mentioned earlier. And the idea is to make sure that all veterans are housed. So we are holding a series of public forums. Some small, some medium size, some large. Between now and then. We held our first. one on Memorial Day. And our next one is going to be August 13th, a Thursday night here in Los Angeles in the Downtown Arts District at a venue called Play. And it's on 1018 South Santa Fe Avenue in the Downtown Arts District. Starts at 6 p.m., a little after work thing, some socializing, some schmoozing to start off. And then we'll have a discussion starting around 7. So I think we should make it a goal between now and then to see what progress we can make, to see who we can get on board in pursuit of the very ideas we just discussed here. Does that sound reasonable? Yeah, of course. Now, Christina, you're in Boston, so it's probably not going to be too easy for you to show up. But do you ever come to LA or do any of your colleagues come to LA? Well, there is no eminent plans, but we're in the middle of growing. So there's always the potential. What if I were to tell you I could get you a movie deal? Would you come out here then? I know producers. I have an occupation. Thank you. And it's a big enough challenge that I think I'll be busy for the rest of my life. All right. I just don't know what it would take to get you out here. I'll try anything. But I mean, that's something we can do locally and certainly we can work with you from a distance. I'm sure most of your work is by phone and email and so forth anyway. And then when you have a particular project, then you come out, right? I mean, your office is in Boston, right? Yes. We're based at the Harvard Innovation Lab in Boston. And you mentioned that you had that project in Kentucky. Was it Kentucky before that you mentioned? Yes. Yeah. So. We go to Kentucky. So I imagine that you had to go down there and be on the scene at least some of the time, right? Yes. Well, I have a meeting this week to see whether we can have a partial sponsorship with an airline company that helps social enterprises like mine get to places where we'd like to go. So I'll definitely mention November 15th, Los Angeles. That's the stand down, right? That's what it's leading up to. And then we're going to go to the next one. We're going to do what we can with a bunch of other public forums between now and then the next one being on August 13th. Anyway, Christina, thank you so much for joining us. I know it's late in Boston and we really appreciate it. The website is OpportunitySpace.com, correct? Or no, .org. Yes, .org. So, yes, it's a pleasure to speak with you, Jeff and Ricardo. It's a pleasure meeting you and I hope we get to continue working together. Likewise. So let's not hope. Let's just do it. It's a fait accompli. All right. Thanks a lot, Christina. Good night. Rick, thank you for joining us. No, thank you. And I look forward to really following up on what we discussed tonight. You got it. And thank you for your service when you were in the military as well as your post-military service. Thank you. You are a great guy and a real innovator and I really appreciate the stuff that you do. And you do it in a very humble way. That's right. Let me, because you're too humble to say it. Let me say that you are a superstar. And I'm very fortunate to have you as a collaborator. Thank you. So why don't we finish with a video of some, one of our previous stand downs. It happened in Venice and we can finish up with that. It's kind of, it has some great photos taken by Louis Martinez, who's a Marine veteran. He took these photos and we'll just end the show that way. Next week, we're going to deal with the L.A. parking scam. We got to deal with the L.A. parking scandal. It's juicy. So tune into the Norman Report next week. NormanReport.com. My name is Jeff Norman. 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