Discussion on primal play and personal BDSM experiences

Hello. Welcome to Intellectual Kink. Welcome. Welcome. I'm insidious me. I'm a service slut. I was totally just playing with my boobs. I'm all boobies, boobies. You do that all the time though. Well, I do, but here's the thing. So, you know, I've got nipple piercings, right? And my left nipple is more sensitive apparently than my right one. So I can't wear the shield on my left one. But I can wear the shield on my right one. But now the shield likes to grab hold of the fabric on the inside of the bra. And sometimes it tugs on it. And sometimes it does it in a rather unpleasant fashion. You're like, hey, hey, hey, and it's cold outside. So then you've got the tugging on the piercings. And then you've got the nervous nipples with the nipples getting all hard because of the cold. And it's like, hey, there's a lot of weird kind of quasi-arousing but yet unpleasant at the same time experience. It's really so. I just felt like I really needed to let my nipples know that I love them by touching them furiously before the show. Aww. So there's that. That's so sweet. Would that qualify as romantic in the Nancy book? Well, you're being romantic to yourself. Am I? Am I self-romancing myself? Yes, you are. I'll have to remember that. That's kind of awesome. How are you? I'm okay. You know, it's weird. Like I've been trying to, I'm still working at that whole like work-life DS balance. Yes. That's actually, it's not just, that's kind of been an ongoing thing. Yeah. So, but like this week and last week have really just been testing that. For me, it's just been really because I. I don't like to me, like, I feel like that's not, that's not your problem. Like I should, I need to figure that out for myself because that's my, that's my life. And, and I need to figure out what works best. Knowing of course what you want me to prioritize. So I, you know, like that's not something that I want to burden you with. Like, Hey, I can't figure this out because I, no, no, no. But I feel like that the moment that I, please, please. Please. I just, I feel like. I don't want to go to you with, Hey, I can't figure this out. I need your help until I've explored all the, all the avenues that I can on my own. You know, do you know what I'm trying to say? I, I do. I do. I really, really do. Why? What did I do now? No, it's just, it's just, you know, like I said earlier, that's an ongoing thing, which we actually have a topic, believe it or not, an ongoing thing. And we've had this before. And I, I remember it was at least two years ago. Yeah. You know, you had issues with prioritizing things. And so I, I said, I tasked you with, you know, kind of figuring it out, putting together to-do lists and whatever, and establishing what were your biggest priorities and how they fit and et cetera, et cetera. And I remember not, not actually getting any follow through on that. And then it happened again. And then, you know, I'm just saying, so we're kind of there again. I'm, I'm sorry. I really, I don't even know why. I'm just a mess. You're a mess. Yeah. Well, you know, I've given you a mess. I actually downloaded a couple apps yesterday. Did you? That have, they're these really kind of cool reminder apps. Oh shit. Yeah. It's really cool. Just putting things on to remind myself to do the stupid things during the day that I'm like, I want to do that. I don't want to do anything. And I do it anyway. Cause it's like, oh, well it yells at me and I have like this obnoxious tone for it, which kind of scares me actually. So I'm like, ah, okay. The tone's up. I got to go do something. Yeah. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes you gotta like psych yourself out for this shit. Dude. Even D types got to do this. You know, trust me. I don't live in a palace and have all my whims taken care of. You know, I actually have my own responsibilities. Responsibilities. Responsibilities. Anyway. Hey. Hey. So we actually do have a topic for tonight. We do. And this is. Just came up with it. Well, sometimes, I mean, you know, to be quite honest, sometimes it's hard to come up with topics because like you feel like. Oh, wait, did we already talk? Yeah. We've talked about that. We've talked about that. We talked about that. Well, and you want to know what? I mean, God, we've been doing the show for a long fucking time. Yeah, we have. And there's a point when you're like, what? Is there anything left? I don't know. And, you know, we've, we've revisited a couple things. So, and that's cool. I don't have a problem with revisiting things, especially you said you've been listening back to some of our previous episodes. And I think that's great. It's probably really good at, you know, homework for us, for lack of a better term, because it'd be like, oh, no. No. No, we're totally different now than we were three years ago when we started or however many years ago it was. So, yeah. But what is our topic, Nancy? Our topic for tonight is something that I'm not quite, I don't feel like I'm really like, what is this? Primal play. Primal play. I think that the word primal, you mentioned like, yeah, we've been doing this, but like, I don't know. I think the word primal just kind of throws me. Well, what? Why don't you, because you got it off of the submissive guide. So, why don't you read kind of real quickly what it says primal play is, and I will tell you what I, because again, words mean things to different people, and they're based entirely upon their experiences. I know what primal play means to me, but maybe it means something different to whoever wrote that. You know what I'm saying? You feeling me? Did you lose it? Did you close the link? I'm feeling you. Sometimes you remind me of Tina Belcher from Bob's Burgers, except for instead of, ah, you go, ah. Ah. So, yeah, it's going to be one of those shows this week. The fuck? That's right. The fuck. That's what we do. So, what's it say? Hold on. Hold on. I lost it. I did lose it. Okay. So, oh, wait, that took me back to the same thing. Oh, my. You're having issues? I am having issues. Okay. Well, let's, I, um. Tell me. You tell me since I'm obviously not. Well, I'm going to tell you what I think. So, for me, primal play is I use no toys. It's entirely just my brain and my hands, my feet, my mouth, whatever I have at my disposal. And it's very kind of, you really kind of channel almost, not caveman, like, but kind of a very deep, primitive self. And you punch and you claw and you pinch and you grab and you smack and you pull hair. And that, to me, is primal play. It's really when I'm just using, no implements, just me. I mean, I don't use rope, anything like that. And I do that a lot. It really is one of my favorite forms because my favorite toys are my hands. I like to touch. It allows me to connect with my bottom better. It allows me to experience. For me, it's the top. It allows me to experience the energy flow. It allows me to experience the energy flow that much better. It's a much better high for me when I do that. That's why I always like to, at some point, I end up, you know, touching. I got the nails. And when I get to bite, even better. I like to bite, especially if I can bite really, really hard. It makes me happy. So, that to me, I mean, that's essentially what primal play is for me. Me. Hmm. So, I mean, in that context, do you recall us doing this? Yes. Yes. Didn't this just happen last Friday? I figured you. No, but later in the evening. Oh, yeah. Do you want to tell everybody or? No, you tell it. You tell it. Okay. Well, I was actually trying to pull up the definition in the time while we're doing that. But, so, since you can't find it, I'll find it. Okay. Well, then I'll tell them. Oh, thank you. And I'll do color commentary. It's so kind of you. So, we did our demo on figging, which went really well. And we weren't really planning on playing necessarily. But we were sitting there. We were watching a couple of our friends play. And it just kind of like, it's not like she turned to me and she said, okay, let's go do something now. Or gave me some sort of instruction. Like, you know. Take off your clothes. Which is usually what happens. That's usually what starts the scene. She tells me to take off my clothes. But we were sitting there. And then she was starting to touch me. Like, caress me. And then she grabbed a hold of my hair. And kind of pulled me to, like, push slash pulled me to the ground. And then, I'm sorry. Because at that moment, I was like, boom, gone. You were gone. Yeah, it doesn't take. It doesn't take a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. I have to get into the tea. So, yeah. So, I just kind of grabbed you by the head. And I had this, like, not even a concept. But, like, I was coming from across the dungeon to where you were sitting to kind of watch your friends play. And at that point, I was like, God, I would really love to just literally drag Nancy across the floor by her hair. And, like, throw her on something. And, like, just start beating her up or whatever it is. I didn't have my toy bag. I had nothing. All I had with me were figging supplies. Because for the figging class. I just. And the toys were in the car. But it was like, you know, sometimes you're just not feeling it. And luckily, we went to House of Pies later, which was fantastic. But that's not the point. Anyway. Everybody who knows House of Pies are feeling it, right? I think. And so, when I had that idea in my head, it was just one of those, like, I was kind of grabbing you by your hair. And then I kind of pushed you down on the ground. And it was more of allowing you to experience that. But it was like a moment of submission. That moment of really kind of being below me, down at my feet, you know, in a very, you know, subjugating position. I love that. I want more of that. Right? And then, you know, they were down there. And I just kind of held onto your hair like in a ponytail. Because that's just kind of fun to do. And then there's another ottoman or whatever, which was maybe like four or five feet away. And I just stood up and kind of dragged you over to it, which was fun. And then sat you down on it. And then just did some really, really interesting. Intense face slapping. A really intense face slapping, which you love, but you're not, woo, kind of thing. And then when I was done with it, oh, and it was really, this is what I liked about this particular scene, because we've never done one quite like this. Because, you know, I don't like repeating myself. I made it a much more intense face slapping than we've done in the past. But I intermittently put in kisses. Yeah. So nice. Right? Like, isn't that nice? Like, hey, slap it hurts. Kiss make it better. Hey, you know, it was just one of those. Fun things. And then, you know, kind of, it was one of those. And then I drug and pulled you back and had you made sure that you were still back in that kind of subjugated, that very submissive kind of pose at my feet. And then that's when you kind of create, you know, I was petting your hair and stuff like that. But so meaning primal play, you can, it just, it takes your hands and your feet or whatever. I mean, so I looked, I looked it up and I was like, oh, yeah, there's other things. Pressure points. It can look a lot like wrestling. And it depends on the two people. You know, what are, what have they negotiated? What are their levels of comfort? I mean, I'm obviously not going to wrestle with you because, you know, it'd be a one-sided wrestling match. You'd be like, ah, red, tap out, you know, like right away. And that'd be no fun. I think you probably see more of the wrestling thing. We've seen our switch friends do that, which is awesome. Yeah. Fantastic seeing them do that. But yeah, that, that to me is, is definitively how, you know, and it's just how limited are you? By your, by your own personal physical limitations and desires. That, that is what I think defines primal play. It's not even about skill with any implement. It's about just you and another person and connecting. And it's, it's the deepest kind of scene you can have. You can actually do it quietly. It doesn't have to be in a dungeon. It can be in a bedroom. It can be, you know, in a living room. And, and that's why it's very appealing to me. It's easy. It's easy access. You know, there's a lot about primal play that's like, you know what? You can do it all the time. You know, sometimes I think about resisting or struggling against you. I'd like to see that. But because like, all the other times that, that we play, it's very, because that's, I know that that's what I'm supposed to do. But if we get down to like, you know, basic, like human, like raw stuff. What would anybody do in that situation? They would fight back. They would struggle. Well, there's fight or flight. I mean, those are the. Right. But because I'm hearing you talk about this and that's, that's because I'm thinking, okay, that's, that's the way that she's seeing it from her D type perspective. From my perspective, I would see it as fighting back. Right. Right. Just FYI for the future. Just want to plant this little seed in your head. Should you fight back? You will see a different mistress. Okay. I'm very reined in when I play with you because of your limits. Because of your physical, you can't take a lot of pain. I'm very reined in. That would go away very, very quickly if you fought back. I'm just letting you know, it's not a threat. It's just a fact. Oh, she wants to play. Fine. Let's play. So, Shane. So by all means. Well, that's not cool, man. It's totally cool. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. That's totally cool. That's not cool. Totally cool. Actually, you know, some fighting back is fine. It's very, very enjoyable. It brings out, it lets me know that I can go further with whomever given bottom. You know, we've had, you know, and maybe that's kind of how when you get a Sammy, a smart ass masochist, maybe that's what they're doing is they are trying to go to push farther until it's gone, you know, to their limits. I don't, I really need to like get more into these Sammy's heads and understand them. But that would be my assumption. But yeah, from my perspective, it's, oh, okay. It definitely brings out that, that, you know, oh, you want to, you want to come and try and go? That's fine. Let's do that. Let's go. I get a little alpha sometimes. And it's fun. You know, it's not just about the play. It's not just about the physical. There's a huge mental component to primal play too. You know, let me ask you, is it, is it feel different to you emotionally, psychologically when I'm just using my hands versus when I have implements? Oh, hands down. Hands fucking down. What's the difference? I mean, a cane is always going to feel the same way. A specific cane. Like for instance, the steel cane. That's always going to be thuddy. And you're always going to love it. And I'm always going to love it. Your hands can take any form of anything. If you tried to, they'd be thuddy. If you tried to, they'd be stingy. If you try to, they would tickle. Like I mean. And they can be very gentle and very, you know, sensual. And that's why I like the hands. There is only one type of energy that you get from a steel cane. There is a multitude. There is a multitude. There is a multitude of energy that I can get from your hands. So for me, it just, the intent comes across a lot more when it's the hands. Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting because I would put barefooted trampling in the same category as primal play because again, it's barefooted. I mean, you could do it with shoes and that would obviously be pretty primal, you know. But I don't like trampling with shoes on. I just don't. It's just like one of those, I, I, I'm just. You don't like to wear shoes. Well, I don't like to wear shoes. I would rather be barefoot all the time. I'm wearing shoes right now and it's rather uncomfortable. I'm just kidding. They're not uncomfortable. They're super comfortable. But the point is I would rather be barefoot. Um, but there's something about stepping on a person. I mean, yes, you can have that experience of stepping on them with a pair of boots and stuff and there's a, there's a whole different level to that, but when I can touch them, their skin and feel their muscles. Uh, tense or relax or any of those things under my touch, it, um, it feeds me in a way that touching with anything else doesn't. It's very difficult to describe because, you know, I can hit somebody with a cane or with a paddle or with, you know, whips, floggers, any thing. Um, and I'm still going to come back with my hand to touch it again. And look at them and touch them so I can, I can feel where they are. Uh, and removing that implement gives me, lends me the opportunity to, to just go straight to the source and figure out, oh, okay, they're cool with this or, because oftentimes with touch alone, you don't have to look at the face, you know, when someone's in subspace, you know what I mean? Their body language tells it as well, but it's also, there's something about kind of the way the body reacts to pain when they're in subspace. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. judge that just with my hands than with an implement. Right. And there's a lot of people, it's really interesting. There's a lot of people who go, oh, but, oh, I'll use my cane or my paddle and I'll really give him a wallop. It's like, you know what? I don't need a cane or a paddle to do a wallop. Can I wallop with a cane or a paddle? Abso-fucking-lutely. But my hands, I mean, and your hands are very diverse. You don't have to use your hands. Fuck, use your elbows. You know, you use your whole body. You can body slam someone. I mean, that's very primal. Again, it's all negotiated, people. But, you know, sometimes you can change everything within a scene just because of your hands. You know, I could be gently touching you and then take an elbow and just grind it into a pressure point. And that changes the dynamic of the scene. That changes the experience because, you know, it makes you kind of ebb and flow. It makes you go in and out of these different experiences. It's like this huge tie-dye of emotions all in that same moment. And when you're switching between implement to implement, it's almost as if you're going from, you know, one color to the next color to the next color. It's very color block to give a visual reference as opposed to kind of like, oh, it's organic, you know, kind of. That's just the way that I look at it. And I love that organic hippy-dippy shit. So, you know, it works for me. Well, I think, you know, and the thing is that there's so many different things that you can convey with touch. It's not just that pain factor, but it's also, you know, by touch, you can easily provide someone with comfort. You can provide them with fear. You could provide them with uncertainty. So many things. And I think maybe that's what makes it, that's also part of what makes it primal is that those type of emotions are very, they're very basic as humans. You know, we all need a certain level of comfort. We all need a certain level of security. So I think that you're able to do that with your hands or with your feet or with your elbows or with, I don't know, your teeth. I think that's a very powerful thing. You know, I mean, anyone can pick up, you know, and implement and use it. I don't know if it'll be successful or safe, but they can use it. But, you know, I think it takes something different. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. But it doesn't have to. Absolutely, it has this depth and this breadth of character that can expand a person's play and their skills and everything. All of that is possible, but it can also just start really, really simply. It doesn't have to be anything big. I mean, I think that hair pulling is very primal, and that is a skill that can be learned. And when it's learned and wielded effectively, you can mix that into anything. You can do that in public, and people won't look at you oddly. They'll think it's very sexual, you know, and that's nice. They don't necessarily think it's BDSM-related, you know, as opposed to if somebody has, you know, a posture collar on, they're obviously going to think this is BDSM-related, you know. Did you just get wet at the words posture collar? Let's get one of those. Well, we should have gotten it at, you know, my kinky valentine or something. I don't know. I was more entertained by the mitts. By the what? The mitts. Oh, the doggy mitts, yes. But a posture collar would be awesome for the Renaissance Fair. Done. Happening. Happening. Happening. That's so funny. And once again, happening. I'm sorry, is it happening? No, but I mean, that's the nice thing to me about primal play is that, you know, you can start, you know, do baby steps. Start with a baby primal play with any of those things, you know, understand the anatomy for safety, et cetera, and obviously pre-negotiate things with other people. One of the best things about primal play is it really lends for the top. It really lends us the ability to kind of go free with our imagination. When you are limited to nothing, you have to go free. You have nothing but your imagination. And so you have to exercise that. You have to, you know, go and stretch. And so it's important that you actually stretch that muscle, that you use it. You don't just, okay, I'm spanking, I'm done, and now I'm flogging, and now I'm caning, and now I'm paddling, you know, and now I'm cooling you down. If you really kind of delve into what primal play, can feel like for you and how that feeds your partner and how your partner then feeds you back, you'll want to expand more into more and to do different things and whatever and have these crazy ideas that are like, I don't even know if that's physically possible, but I want to do it, which is great. And until you really give yourself, the freedom to play in that space, you will end up going back to your comfort zone time and time again. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with comfort zones, but I don't think that's what BDSM is about. I think BDSM is about pushing ourselves, growing and expanding and being and changing. And I think that having dedicated times and amounts to really kind of investing in primal play, gives you that opportunity to feel yourself out. I mean, this is totally top perspective, but feel yourself out as a top. Like, wow, I never knew that I would love, you know, to dig my elbow into somebody's, you know, back or butt or whatever it is that you're doing. Or wow, when I slammed him up against the wall and it, you know, and he went, he was like, oh my God, that was awesome. You know, and you don't know, until you do it on a lot of things. I mean, it's unfortunately, a lot of these things you can't really, there's not a lot of practice. I mean, you're not cracking a whip and practicing with a whip months and months before you use it on a person. You're just using your body. And see, and what I'm hearing you say is that primal is less formulaic. Yes, which is probably why I love it so much. Yeah. Because I hate formulas. I mean, exactly. Except for math and prime numbers. Yeah, that's, yeah. You were saying all these things and I thought, okay, I see what the appeal is for her. Why? Because, no, because you're right. With everything else, it's like, okay, let's, you know, let's do some warmup. Let's, okay, let's do this. Oh, wait, let's check in now. Okay, all right. She's had enough. Okay. And it's time for the cool down. From one to 10, where are you? Yeah. It's, yeah, it's different. It's very different. Yeah, you're not, and. And you're all about the whole being barefoot and stepping in mud kind of situation. I really do love that. Oh, walking barefoot in the rain. Fucking love it. Exactly. So I see now. Now you get it? Now. Now you get it. And it's, the great thing about, you're not, like I said, it's just so open-ended. It's just such, and it's not even just open-ended. It's, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger the more times you play in it. Because you, you know, in a moment, you can be like, yes, you know, I can, you know, face down, ass up, and I can, finger her ass or pussy, whatever, and then rub her juices all over her face if I want to. Or, you know, I mean, there's all of these things that you can do, you know, make her lay down and sit on her face while you beat on her or whatever, or him or whatever it is. There's, these are all things that I would put under the umbrella of primal play because it's just one, one body and another body or, you know, multiple bodies, whatever. I'm totally flexible. You want to play the bongos. I always do. But I don't like being limited. You know how that goes. If I'm stuck in one spot, I'm like, well, I'm bored now. Can we move on? A bad person. What type of, so when I was like, oh, but all this lovey-dovey, feely stuff, and you were like, no, you're making it sound like it's, you know, something elevated. What kinds of skills do you think someone would need to find foundational skills? Rather. Um, excellent negotiation skills. Um, excellent ability to read your partner. Uh, from the top perspective, you have to be able to read your bottom. And that's, I don't know if it's, if it's, is it part art, part science, maybe. I'm not sure for me, it's all art. Um, but that's because I'm a very artistic person. Um, there are specific things you can do to kind of on the scientific level to realize, okay, this person's checked out. This person isn't, isn't there. And I, um, personally have an issue with playing with somebody who's so far into subspace that they're non-responsive. And I get that I've had, I've had feedback from a lot of moms said, no, you totally could have kept going. And I totally get that. But my problem is I, they, they're gone and they can't color out then. So I don't know when I've gone too far. I no longer have a way to judge if that, but that's my own personal thing. It may not be other people. Um, the ability to read your bottom is really important. Negotiations are really important. Understanding of anatomy, uh, basic health issues that your bottom may have. These are things that you just kind of have to keep very forefront in your mind. Um, in order to be able to do whatever it is that you're going to do. Those were the basic things, uh, you know, so if you understand essential spanking, um, you know, maybe essential kind of junk playing, genital torture, if that's what you're going to do with. Um, you know, you're going to have to be very careful with your hands, manipulation, um, pressure points. Knowledge of that is, is great. Not required, but great. Um, what to avoid, what not to avoid, uh, you know, understanding, you know, nerves, nerve damage, those things. And it sounds, it sounds scarier than it is because it's not that scary because if you're not playing super hard, then a lot of that stuff isn't really going to be an issue. But you know, you want to know where the organs are. I don't know. Probably don't want to punch the kidneys. Just throwing it out there. I don't know. Maybe just throwing it out there. Maybe stay away from the spine. All of the kind of the general no-go areas. And if most, you know, if you're already doing kind of traditional normal play, then you're going to have a lot of this information already in your head. And if you've been to a few classes, it generally gets drilled in, especially if they're introductory classes. Um, but outside of kind of those basic areas of knowledge, which are really, really important, uh, I think it's, you should come, your other skills should absolutely be having an open mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. are new because if you've never done Promo Play with a particular partner, because that energy exchange is so intense, it ends up, oh, okay, this is, I'm getting this reaction from him, her. And you're going to have to either be able to roll with it and be like, oh, this is working, this is good, or this is really working for me, but they don't like it. Let's do that balance because it's a balance. It's like, I am really enjoying this and they're really hating it, but let's see how far I can go before I have to stop, you know, and that's a real life thing. But you're going to be able to feel it a lot better because you're actually physically touching the person with your body in some way, your flesh, instead of just with an implant. So those would be my sage words of advice. How about you for bottoming for it? I think knowing. Knowing yourself. Well, I mean, knowing yourself physically, knowing your physical limitations. I know that I have like sciatic nerve issues and like sometimes like it's like a fucking hairpin thing where suddenly back pain. Right. I know I can't be on my knees for long, you know, and I think that, you know, being aware of those kinds of things. Being aware of those types of things. It's good because you should. You should communicate them. If you're not aware of your body and how something's feeling, what kind of problem you're having, how can you hope to communicate that to someone? And then next thing you know, you're wrestling on the floor and they fucked up your back. And guess what? You never said anything. You never said it was an issue. And I'll let you know there's no worse feeling than you're like, oh, fuck. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Are you OK? Oh, shit. You know, you feel awful. You're like, fuck. Yeah. And that's not cool because, I mean, it's not your fault that I didn't tell you. You know, it's. It's on me. I didn't communicate it. I think that's that's the primary thing with something that's so physical. You know, of course, like with any other play, you know, discussing what your limits are, you know, I mean, because primal sounds like something where, you know, it evolves. It does. And it can evolve quickly. Yeah. Evolves from one thing to another rather quickly. And if you're in the heat of the moment and, you know, suddenly your partner wants to do X. Y. Z. And you're like, whoa, no, I thought we were going to do A. B. C. And again, you never communicated it that you didn't want it to go that far. Then, you know, I mean, yeah, of course, you color out. But, you know, hey, why not just have that conversation beforehand? Well, and we've probably had this discussion before, but sometimes you don't know. Right. You know, and, you know, in the middle of the moment. And now here's my question for you. Yes, ma'am. Because you're notoriously bad at assessing your own emotional state. In the moment. Yeah. Like you assess it two weeks later and it's a thing. Yes. It's a big thing. It's you've gotten better, but it's still a thing. It's a thing. Yeah. It's a thing. So, you know, let's say we're in the middle of a scene and we're doing something and, you know, our relationship has been, you know, so long running. You know, there aren't these micro negotiations. They don't really happen. It's just I want to do something with you. I do it. You know, that's how it works. And I really do love it. I just want to let you know. Really? How much I love that. Aw. It's so nice. Anyway. The closest that you've gone to like one of those romantic I love you's. Isn't that nice? Butterflies. Anyway. So, let's say in the middle. And this has happened in our past where in the middle of a scene you're like, this is not okay. I'm not okay with this. I'm not okay with this. But you still don't say anything or you don't verbalize it. There's that disconnect. How does a bottom deal with that in those moments? Shit. I don't know, man. You're like, ask somebody better than me. I am not an authority on that one. What? I'm going to be honest. That is one of my shortcomings. Hello. Yes, we are BDSM educators. I know nothing. No. I think that, you know. Yes. I have that. I have that problem. It does take me days, sometimes weeks to like really know how something made me feel. But at least I feel, I think I have the awareness. What? Go on. I have the awareness. Jesus fucking Christ. It is so hard to have a serious conversation with you. It is so hard to have a serious conversation with me. It's awesome. Carry on. At least I have the awareness that, you know, I can't fault you. For something that I couldn't figure out until weeks later. I'm not, I'm not looking for faults. I'm looking for how do you deal with it? How do I deal with it in the moment? In the moment. I mean, what, I mean, what's, what's going through your head? What's happening? But see, at the time, nothing's really going through my head because if I haven't even started to begin to process it or even know how I feel about it, I kind of don't feel a thing. I don't feel anything while it's happening. I feel empty. Just kind of like, if it's something that's bad, I kind of just feel empty. Hmm. I don't really feel anything. It isn't until afterwards when I've really thought about it and I thought, what are the implications of this? Well, and, and interesting that you should describe it in that manner. During primal play, like when we've had those moments and if I'm actually touching you in the moment, I feel it because your energy changes. It becomes empty, as you said. And, and I've said this before, and although our discussion isn't specifically about energy, it's a component to it. To me, when you're in play, it's, it's cyclical. You, you give and it comes back. You give. And it comes back. You give. And, and when it doesn't come back, as a top, it's very, very difficult. I mean, like, whoa, like you feel, you know, there's this coldness that comes to you and it, it sucks your energy away. And for the most part, especially if you're playing with somebody and it's like it comes and comes back. And there's no science to this. This is just complete feel. And either you feel it or you don't. And some people have a, are more. And in tune with feeling it. And some people are less. It just depends on the person. But, you know, let's say that you're, you're, you're doing it and going through the scene and something happens and I'll see it or know what it is. And then all of a sudden, bam, I'll get like this wash of like nothing back at me. And I'm like, what's going on? And I don't, I mean, if at that point you've checked out, but I alter my play because again, you've got to adjust every micro adjustments within the middle of, of a scene. And, and to see if, okay, is some, is, is there something physically bothering her? Do this, that or the other. And then sometimes I'll check in more often than not. And sometimes every time I'll check in and we've had scenes, we were playing this one dungeon and you were just, you weren't, you were not there. You were not there. And I mean, it was just, there was a vibe going on and it was not okay. And it was a really, really short scene because of it. Because I get no enjoyment out of that. It doesn't work for me. I mean, I could just beat up pillows and I get the same feeling. You know what I'm saying? It's just not the same. So for you, for, for, for the bottom, it becomes evident. And also there's a physical change sometimes. Oh yeah. That I can feel. No, no, no. But I mean, like your body tenses. Yeah. And it's, you know, when you're beating up on someone, believe it or not, their body doesn't remain tense. It actually relaxes for the most part while you're beating them up, the longer you do it. Uh, and when it continues to tense and tense and tense and tense, that's a, that's a physical sign that, Hey, there's something going on and it's not good. It's not a, this isn't going in the right direction in the opposite direction. Um, so, you know, if, if the bottom can't figure it out, then it's the top's responsibility to be like, okay, we need to, we need to end the scene. It's just not working, which happens. It does happen. It does. And I mean, I, is it every time? I mean, I don't know. Do I always take weeks and days? I mean, no, it depends. It depends on the intensity of the scene. It depends. That one, the interrogation scene, I think it took you two weeks. Yeah. That will, cause you know that. And it was a really intense scene. It was supposed to be a really intense scene. However, the, the, uh, scene we did in this, in the school room, which I thought was easily as intense. I don't think it was as emotionally intense because our relationship was in a different place at the time. It, it didn't take you, it took you hardly any time to process, took a normal amount of time to process it. But that was a very intense scene that a lot of people still come up to me and go, you scare me. I'm a really nice person. Well, and see, and you know, that's one of the things that I actually, because when you do get physical with me, cause I know you're really fucking strong and. A delicate flower. Shut up. Fertilizer. Fuck you. Bitch. Make you sleep on the fucking floor. Hey lady, friend. You're a flower face. Go on. No one's going to get that. No one's going to get that. Um, but you know, but you're significantly stronger than me. And so sometimes when you do put your hands on me and it's something very like sudden where it's not like, take off your clothes. Cause you're, you telling me. Take off your clothes is my cue that tells me mentally, oh, we're going to play now. And sometimes I don't do that. Right. But most of the time you do. Yes. So, um, so then when it doesn't happen like that and you're suddenly putting your hands on me, um, there is something that happened. I go to fear immediately. Cause I don't know, like, uh, like I, I don't, I become fearful because I know that you're a lot stronger than me. And I. And I don't, for that split second, like, I don't really know what's happening. Like, I don't know, like, what are we doing? Is this, where is this coming from? Is this anger? Like, is this like, what is happening? You know? So I get a little bit scared, you know? So that, that, I mean, in terms of like assessing where I am at that point, that's, I mean, that I can identify. I kind of like that. That I get scared. Yes. It's so hot. More often than not. That's what it is. That's what happens. I like it. It's like, yes. I think you got a little scared at the dungeon the other night when I grabbed your head and started pushing you down. Well, yeah. Cause you know, yeah. I didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah. No, of course. But you never really do know what's going to happen. No, but, but I can usually get a feel for it. Like, we don't have very many scenes where you are sensual with me. So the few that have happened, I can identify that. And so in the beginning I can usually get a feel for it. I can identify that I am very sensual for what kind of, how forceful you're going to be with me. Hmm. You know? That's very interesting. In the very beginning I can, I can get a feel for that. Really? And so, and that's usually what makes the fear set in. Because if you're going to do something where you're more sensual with me, then it doesn't make sense then that you would be forceful with me. But I can be both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ba-bam-bam so interesting kind of I can't see because I'm on my glass I really need you to tell me what time it is I don't know interestingly it's funny because when I actually think I sit down and actually think about it as primal play my mind goes oh you know what is primal play and I kind of put things in my head and I kind of pre-conceptualize ideas concepts and things like that I think that when I don't necessarily think about it specifically it just kind of very very organic it just kind of happens which isn't a bad thing both are fine I'm not a scene creator it's very rare for me to really have a very specific beginning to end concept of a scene I mean concepts are fine but scenes change so you can't be that finite otherwise you're going to be disappointed but like there are things that I would love to do that would involve kiddie pools and you know and like dirty and messy stuff let's do all of that right all of that let's do all of that tonight I actually had this just awesome idea this is years ago this is before you and me years ago I wanted to finger paint a bottom finger paint them let's do that right I mean because doesn't and that would still be very fairly primal I mean obviously I'd have to have the paint and stuff but it's this idea that you know instead of a brush or because I've painted you with a brush before and that's it's a thing but that's definitely more objectifying than doing it with your fingers it's a little bit more kind of I don't know Native American and that's how it feels to me if I'm doing the finger painting and stuff I don't know it just seems like that would be so awesome because I can just use my nails to draw designs and stuff that would be cool I've actually had that scene idea for years let's do that then it's logistics I'd have to you know cleaning and tarps and it's a logistic thing it's about messes you know what I'm saying let's do it at home we can do it at home that's for sure totally do it at home you get the tarps and you clean it up because I don't want to clean that shit up yeah but then you can from any of these things kind of go beyond what does that look like well and as with most other types of play it's really only limited by your imagination yes yeah! I think that you can dig deep and tonight in your bedroom with your partner do something BDSM related is hot let's be in bed together tonight can't we have a logistic issue but you know what I'm saying like and that that not only is it hot I think it it to me it gives hope that you can have those little doses of BDSM you don't have to have a lot of BDSM you don't have to have a lot of BDSM you don't have to have a lot of BDSM you don't have to have a lot of BDSM you don't have to go to the dungeon you don't have to go to you know a pro or whatever you can have those little doses of BDSM and experience and kind of feed that inner deviant that we have or outer deviant whatever in those doses because that's that's all you need you know the excuse that you don't have a deep toy bag is bullshit don't need that all you need are your two hands and a brain and a willing victim a willing victim victims are always like that awesome sexy look but I saw it sorry no it's okay when you now that you understand a little bit more about primal play I mean what is there anything that you would I've totally done it no no no but I mean that you would like to do it additionally oh I just got another idea I've always been it's weird because like sometimes I do not while we're playing but like other times I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like I'm like what what what what what what what what what what what what just willingly, you know, I do wonder a lot about that. Challenge accepted. Of course, I also don't want to experience the full force of your strength. So I probably won't do that. Oh, okay, fine, I will. It's just pain, pain's in your mind. Okay. But no, that's something that I had thought about. I just didn't, I didn't really know like where that fit in, you know, because I'm not, I don't think I'm one of those like smart ass submissives or anything like that, or, you know, I don't think I'm a brat or things like that. So like, I just feel like, well, I don't think that this necessarily goes in that category because when I think about struggling, I think about being playful. Yes. I don't think about, you know, being an asshole. So that's kind of where that is. But, you know, I always want to be more of a, you know, more physical with you. I love it when you touch me. No matter, I don't care what the capacity is. I just like that we have physical contact. So, I mean, if that means that we do more of this, then yes, I vote yes. I want to play in public. I mean, not in public, we play in public all the time. I want to play in nature. Nature, like out. And like, we live in such a nice, nature-rich area. We really do. We do. I mean, I just, that's me. And, you know, I see all these awesome, Tumblr posts of these people-bound nature and stuff. It's awesome. I'm like, yes, I want to do that. Yeah, you know, and like, I've seen those and I think like, okay, like, that's a net control situation, obviously. That's something that's staged. Right. I've just never thought about it as like, you know, real practical, like, we're going to go out and we're going to go up the canyon and we're going to do this, you know? Not that one. There's too many people there. We'd have to find another one. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I've just, I've never thought about that as like an actual, like, real possibility. But it does intrigue me. Like, you know, it's weird because I think a lot about the very first time that I was naked in a dungeon and how I felt really self-conscious. But that was indoors, you know? I've only ever been naked indoors. I've never been naked outdoors. Like, I mean, that is very different. I mean, even just feeling a breeze, like, it's just different, you know? One of my favorite scenes, I did an inspection of a boy in public. I mean, in nature. And it was an October night and it was cold. And, you know, he was naked and he was hooded and we could have been caught. We were there illegally because it was, you know, one of those public parks that closes at dusk and stuff. I still look back and that was years ago and I'm like, oh, I want to do that again. Yeah. It was such a great experience. And again, it was very primal. I don't, maybe I had a crop, but yeah, I had a crop because I was using it to move his bits and parts around to order to look and stuff. But mostly it was my hands, you know, because I had to spread the cheeks and look in the mouth and all sorts of weird things. I'm a strange person. But yeah, that was to me, and that's very primal. You know, you're in nature and stuff, but that's not a component. You can do anything in nature, but to me it just makes it even better, more hippy-dippy. Mm-hmm. You know? I do. I know how you go. Mm-hmm. You're such a story. I know, right? People only know. Yeah. Yeah, nails, teeth. Teeth. Love to bite. Oh, my God. Love to bite. I can't stand your nails, your real nails. That's why I have acrylics, because my real nails are like the devil. Yeah, let's not. Let's not. But my teeth are nice. I haven't experienced your feet. Oh, we can do that. Yeah, I have not experienced that. Yeah, but it's like giving you a Thai massage. You know, be like that lady. Well, but I'm sure, like, if you wanted to, it would be unpleasant. Yeah, but you have back issues. So it's like... Upper back. Stay upper back. But I like your butt. You can rock on the butt. Yeah, it's in my butt. All right. Thank you. I'm so stressed. Oh, my God. I like it when you do these things. They make me laugh. I can't say anything. It's true. It's true. You can't. You can't. But you already knew that. Jesus Christ. Sorry, I'm drinking. I'm trying to see if there's anything else on Primal Play before we go, because we're almost at the going part. Wow, there's... I have random things in my nose. Yeah, no, I mean, I think we've really covered... How awesome it is. Yes, how awesome it is. How amazing and how everybody should now go out and try it if you've never done it. Or if you did it, but you didn't know you were doing it, or you thought your hands were only for spanking. No, punching. Must punch. Do you think that, you know, that Primal is necessarily... synonymous, like, with being rough with someone? Do you think it's a... Mm-hmm. Yeah? Yeah, there's definitely a roughness to it. It's a... And it's a, like a... Like I said, it's a very primitive roughness. It's that kind of deep down inside you, that's what you're reaching into in order to fuel it, for me, anyway. And it's awesome. And the more I can go into that and play around in it, the more fun it is. It's like, yes, it's another way to play in those dark places of your mind. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it's, you know, you can... If you're just being rough with someone, then you can, if you want to call that Primal Play, it can be considered Primal Play. To me, it's just, anytime you're really not using any formal toys, it can still be Primal Play. That's what I'm saying. Got it. Got it. I just want us to touch. Tsss. So, let me give you... Even what Submissive Guide says. A Primal Play scene may look like wrestling or even martial arts. There may be pressure points involved and even rope bondage. But the thing that sets Primal Play apart from other types of raw emotional sexual feelings... Oh, are the raw emotional sexual feelings displayed? All the labels, roles, and protocols go out the window during Primal Play, and the bottom can become a snarling, growling, clawing, animal hell-bent on getting away. Right? It's true, because it really gets that fight-or-flight thing, which, you know, you don't do, which is cool. You can do it, but you'd be scared. You'd be awesome. More sensual types of Primal Play can look like two animals greeting each other. I'm never going to look like a fucking animal. I'm not going to sniff your ass. That's not happening. Sorry, Submissive Guide. That's where you lost me. I'm not sniffing asses. Ever. Oh, boy. I had children. I sniffed one too many butts, because I'm like, is their diaper clean? I don't need to do that again. Ugh. And with that, we're out of time. All right, we'll be back next week. You guys have a good one. Night. Bye. Bye. Bye.