Interview with Tim Guinea on directing and acting

Come on people, it's time to live it up! That's right! Live it up! Live it up! Come on people now! Live it up! Go together now! Live it up! This together! Come on people now! Live it up! Boom! Hi! This is Rosemary Rodriguez, your host on the Director's Chair at We Play Radio. The Director's Chair is the place to talk about directing, producing, writing, and any other Hollywood talk or movie talk or whatever that comes up. There's no restrictions, no politics, just honest talk about what it's like to be a part of the film and television industry. And our focus is always going to be about collaboration, when it works and when it doesn't work. So I just got finished directing two really fun episodes of a show called Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll. So I just got back from New York and I wanted to continue the fun and so I have a very fun guest. One of the most fun actors I know, Mr. Tim Guinea. Welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. So I'm just going to reel off some of your credits because you've been in like a million movies and a million TV shows. Oh no. So just to throw a little, just so people, if they don't know who you are, you've been in Iron Man, Iron Man 2. You've been in 99 Homes, Promised Land, Water for Elephants, Blade. That's just some of the movies. And TV shows like Hell on Wheels, The Good Wife, Van Helsing, Elementary, Homeland, Nurse Jackie. And of course we worked together on The Good Wife and Hell on Wheels. Yeah, yeah. I met you on The Good Wife, right? Or did I meet you before that? You met me on The Good Wife, on my first episode of The Good Wife. Oh, right. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay, good. So in addition to that, you wrote and directed a short film called One-Armed Man with Charlie Haid and Terry Kinney based on a short story by Horton Foote, great playwright, Horton Foote. Great playwright. And that won a ton of awards at many festivals including South by Southwest, Dallas, USA Film Festivals, plus because I liked you from the first time I worked with you, so I've gotten to know you a little bit. Plus you're a trapeze artist, right? Mm-mm. You're not? I thought you were. You and Rachel, Rachel Connors. I'm a wire walker. A wire walker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's close. See, I don't know the difference. The trapeze is that thing, wire walkers. I thought that's what you did. Mm-mm. I'm a wire walker. And what about Rachel, a script supervisor on Good Wife? She's a trapeze artist. Oh, I thought you both did the same. That's circus-y, so. There you go. All right, what's close? That's still unusual. It's unusual to be a wire walker. I don't know anyone else. And you're a beekeeper. Yeah. And you just told me 30 seconds ago that you're also a DJ. I do a thing where I get to guest DJ with a guy helping me a lot. Meaning you pick out the songs or you spin the records? Yeah, yeah, I pick out the songs and I sort of curate the show and talk about the songs and he runs the board. What kind of music? It's a radio station called WDST in Woodstock. It's one of the oldest rock and roll stations in the country. And it's, he lets me play anything from like late 40s through now. And it's, I get to go on sort of later at night, which is great because I don't quite know where rock and roll ends and pop begins and blues and jazz and country. And so it's fantastic. It's really fantastic. How often do you get to do that? It's when I'm home, you know. Woodstock is a very cool place to call home, by the way. Yeah. Well, I'm in another. Another town, which is even cooler. It's a little town in the Hudson Valley nobody will know of because it's 500 people. I want to know. It's called Stone Ridge, New York. That's a sweet name though. It's great. It's great. But. How often do you actually get to be home? I think I'm home about two months out of the year now. I think I'm on the road about 10 months out of the year, which is actually a thing. Like I'm starting to feel a little like I need to be home more, you know. Yeah. Well, for people that don't understand, you know, our business seems like it's very glamorous. Like I was just, you know, talking with my sister-in-law last night, my sister-in-law, Elizabeth Rodriguez, who's an actress. Yeah. Who it's like rumored that she's in Wolverine 3 and, you know, there's good stuff happening for her. But, you know, between going from here, she's on Orange is the New Black, she's on Fear the Walking Dead. Like all the flying and all the traveling. First of all, anyone that goes to an airport knows that's not very much fun anymore. And that and then staying in hotels and then always being uprooted. And never really having the same pillow to sleep on for very, you know, lengths of time to get your body. Every little thing like that. Where do you eat out? What kind of food are you going to get here and there? Where's the good? All that stuff is not really that much fun. No. And, you know, they had the circus. The old circus phrase is the agenda voyage. The people of the road, the people of the dust. I was thinking about when my wife and I, we went on our honeymoon. We went to Italy. And we were in Assisi. This is going to sound so stupid and actory. But it's true. Because it already sounds romantic. But I mean, we go, there's an old Roman amphitheater. And I go and sit in this Roman amphitheater. And it was the most unbelievably moving thing. Because suddenly I realized it can be incredibly lonely, the work we do. You're in a hotel. You're in another hotel. You don't know what country you're in. You don't know what. And I felt like for the first time ever, like I was connected to a whole lineage of people that live this thing. You know, that were part of this thing, that have been doing this thing. And that I wasn't alone. We're not alone. We're part of a parade in this ridiculous choice we've made to do this for our lives. That's a good feeling, though. Yeah. Yeah. I think some, yeah, that's very interesting. It's just, yeah, I have the need to be home more, too. And it's hard. It's hard. How long have you been married? 20 years next year. 20 years. So, yeah, for me, too. Like, you know, I just decided I'm going to try to do, you know, like maybe once a month, like a podcast with my husband just because we're hanging out together. It's like. That's so romantic. Well, it's one way to like try to connect. Yeah. Because it's like you have to struggle, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy. Yeah. How do you do it with like 10 months gone? I don't know. Does she come and visit you? She does some. But, you know, we live in an old. It's a farmhouse and there are animals and things and, you know, and she has a career. She's a writer, wonderful writer. And so it's just hard. It's just hard, you know. It's hard. And she's a beekeeper also? No. She won't go near them. Oh, she won't? Yeah. So what are the other animals that you have? Just dogs. But we have, you know, fruits and vegetables. Oh, that's nice. So that's cool. So, all right, just to get back now, you've worked with, I named some of the movies. Yeah. So you worked with some great directors. You've worked with Jon Favreau, Gus Van Sant. I just wrote down some of the names of them. Frances Lawrence, Rebecca Miller. Rosemary Rodriguez. Rosemary Rodriguez. Charlie Kaufman, Zoe Cassavetes, Adrienne Shelley, Ed Zwick, Jocelyn Morehouse. I mean, you've probably worked with more female directors than most people. Yeah, but that's a horrifically sad thing. That sounded wrong. It's terrible to work with female directors. That's not what I meant. What I meant was... That I would even make that statement is something shouldn't even have to be said. A, that is completely ridiculous. My friend Jamie Harreld did a thing on the Facebook where he looked through his resume and saw how many women directors he'd had. And I've done, if you count up all the episodes of television, about 200 episodes of television and movies and TV movies and stuff. I've worked with 14 women. Mm-hmm. Some of them, like, we've worked together three or four times now. Mm-hmm. But that's insane. That's an insanely small... But I think that's more than a lot of people. Oh, yeah. That's what I'm saying. No, it absolutely is. But also, like, that there's a whole different thing that comes in when women are directing. And it's fantastic. Oh, what's that? I think there's... Well, and I'll also say this. Like, I think men directors... I mean, something I noticed. This is, they're often really huge men. They're often physically imposing... You know, Oliver Stone is a big guy. There's a lot of them that are big guys. I think that there isn't... I think actors, maybe because we wear makeup and other people's clothes and wigs and... I think actors are never certain of their sexuality. I really mean this. Like, if you go on a war movie... Or a cop show, especially with, like, actors in their 20s, they can't stop playing with their stupid guns. And they can't stop kind of strutting around and being masculine. And it's hilarious. And it's dangerous. They hurt each other. And it's ridiculous. And I just sometimes don't think those same... There's that exact same kind of weirdness is happening with women directors. And there's... There's an availability to other things. You know? That's interesting. I don't know. I mean, I just... I like the list of directors. You've worked with some great directors. And so... Rosemary Rodriguez. No, no. So I was going to ask you not to, like, you know, say anything badly about anybody. But who out of all of the directors you've worked with, who is the best? Leaving me off the list because I'm here. Because, like, how are you going to not say me because I'm here? So forget me. But who was the best collaborator? That's a... That's a... That's a hugely hard question. Is it? Why? Because I've been lucky. Because I've been really lucky. Well, because you're... And I've had good people. I think you're a great collaborator. Some actors are not so open. You know, sometimes you want to... You want to go and talk to an actor. But, you know, the challenge is everyone has a different method, a different process. Yes. But... But... You're an open person. Yeah. But it's... It's... You know, that short that you were talking about, One-Armed Man. Mm-hmm. And... And we were working right before I went into production on Hell on Wheels. And my father was dying as we were making the show. And... And then I went into the short and my father died in the pre-production week a couple days before I had to go, you know, shoot. And... And a decision had to be made. I decided not to go to his funeral. Mm-hmm. To be ready to... To do the movie. There's a man named Peter Kuntz whose son, Johan Kuntz, is someone who you've worked with. And Peter was doing the special effects on my movie for free. Peter had cancer at the time and was dying. Oh, wow. And knew he was very sick and wouldn't take any money. And he was a great, great special effects man. And... I... I, like, remember saying to him, you know, I don't want... I don't want you to overexert yourself. I don't... And he was German and he said, you know, I'll worry about my body. You'll worry about making a movie. And... And he was this fantastic... You know, like he would paint a wall and he would... All these things that weren't his job. He'd help find a prop. He'd do... And you knew it was... Because that was his life, was this thing. Right. Right. And he was somebody who would say, no to me. Like, I would say, maybe if we could be on a scout. And I'd say, what if we shoot that? And he'd say, you can't. Those aren't period boards. That would be wrong. And... Which felt... I was... Affrontery a little bit. But... But then, you know, was like, oh, thank God. I'm trying not to swear. May I swear on your... Oh, no, God. Of course. Fuck that, of course. Oh, now I feel better. No, no, yes. But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... You know, a couple days in, there was my... I... I... I... At night, felt like my father was with me. This is so weird that I'm talking about this. No, it's good. I felt like my father was with me all night. And... And... And I went into set the next day and I said... I sort of made everybody come together because there was a little tension between a couple people. And I said, you know... And I hadn't told anybody he had died. And that I hadn't gone to the funeral. And I said that what I had realized was that the only thing we have is time. You know, we have... Our lives are... It's an aberration. Aberration. We're dead a lot longer than we're alive. And... And our choice to spend time together, our choice to work together is like a holy thing. You know? And so why... Why... Why would you not work... Together? Why wouldn't you? Unless you're scared. Right. You know? But that's it. I get being scared. But that's it. It's fear. Yeah. It is fear. But... Anyhow. You're right. But it's like what a disaster. Because... But that's the magic. That's the magic of collaboration. The magic is exactly what you're saying. It's like you go into something. We make plans. You know? We like think we're going to do this and that. And then you have work with incredible craftspeople. Yeah. That make their plans. They've got their things too. And then you come together and that other thing happens. And that's why we work. Yeah. 12, 14, 16 hour days. We work because we want those little moments to happen. And I find too... That's art. Yeah. That's where the art is. But I also find that I'm in love. I mean, because I'm in love with the specific things about being an actor and discovery and this and that. But I'm also in love with the community. You know? That community means something to me. And I feel at home in that community. In a way I don't necessarily feel when I'm home always. Yeah. You know? Me too. Yeah. For better or for worse. I know. Me too. It's when I feel like I'm most planted on the earth. Yeah. Yeah. And like all the angsty stuff and all the nerves and all of my fears. Right. Really come alive when I'm not there. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense because you just described it. That's how you feel too, right? Yeah. It absolutely is. It is sort of a, it is a spiritual thing. It is. I agree with you. I know. It's like, you know, yeah. It's awesome. So, so out of all, so it's hard for you to like tell me any instance where because you're such a collaborator, is it not, is that not an invitation for directors to collaborate with you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't they jump on that? They jump on that and they start like. I remember having a conversation. This is funny. Jenna Rollins, I did a movie with and, and there was a conversation about trusting directors in the makeup trailer. And Jenna Rollins said, I've never trusted one of them. I was like, what? You know, because her husband. Her husband was like a god. He's like, John Cassavetes is one of my idols. Of course. That's why I put Zoe on the list. Of course. And, and I don't know, that may have been a joke, but it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. in my house with a gun and- It's a great scene. I didn't, but I didn't know. And I said to Ramin, I don't know how far to go because I need to put myself in an emotional place that I'm not, I can't watch myself. So I knew that thing, like Phil was talking about, like I have to have somebody with my back. Of course. Because how, otherwise we can't get there. Otherwise it's impossible. Of course. You know. So he was there for you? He was there for me. Of course. But I'm just saying, like you're saying, without collaboration, then there's, then I'm judging myself and doing really shitty work. Yeah, it's not good. And without collaboration for me when I'm directing, I'm just, I feel there's a real sadness that happens to me inside. Like if I work with an actor and they just put a wall up and they just don't want to, which I have to say, I mean, I can literally think maybe one time for sure, that happened, but it doesn't really happen too much to me. But if that happens, more it happens with writers for me. You know what I mean? Where I just, they just don't want to have a conversation. And when that happens, there's a little piece of me that just feels sad. Yeah. You know, like I'll, and I'll keep going and I'll be okay. And thank God, usually it's the actors that keep me going. And it seems to me like it's always helped if the framework of the thing, is about the story. Like if you can find, because if you can agree that what you're working towards is the story, then there aren't egos. No, not true. No, because some people want to control the story. They want it to be their story, no matter what. Well, but their story isn't the story. But it is for them. Your story isn't the story. My story isn't the story. But it is for them. Yes, but I'm- Because the ego is involved. Yes, but I'm just saying- But that's what blocks collaboration. I agree with you. Yeah. So you directing your own movie, what is the thing you like the most? I mean, your circumstances of making your movie were extreme. Yeah. But what was the best thing other than feeling, I mean, imagine your father guiding you along and just sort of feeling his presence or however you were. I enjoyed the power I wielded over everyone. You did? No, I'm joking. Oh my God, did you? No, not at all. The opposite of what we're talking about. But it could be true. They were my chattel. And that's really what I love. No, but what did you, what was the best thing you loved about it? Or like, what's the, like, did you prefer- I gotta say, I kind of, I kind of fell into gratitude the whole time. And I don't know, maybe that was just my father passing. There were people doing extraordinary work. Mm-hmm. You know, a lot of it too was, we had a lot of time to build it in a good way. And because we didn't have money. So, you know, that old thing about, you have to have time, money, or what's the other one? There are three things. I don't know. And if you lose one, but we had time. We didn't have money. So, but even that said, there were just these gifts that kept happening on that thing. Did you enjoy directing more than acting? I really liked it. I don't know if I can say I liked it more because acting is- You loved it. Yeah. You know, a thing. But boy, I loved it. I really loved it. And as a director, did you feel pressure to cast your friends? No. You didn't? No. Because you only had a few people in it. It's not a big thing. My friends don't always cast me. I mean, you know. So, it's easy. Yeah. I mean, you're trying to serve the story, right? You can't just cast your friends. So, how did you cast your movie? It's funny. Charlie Haid. I knew very technically. I knew very tangentially. But Charlie did two scenes. One in Hill Street Blues that was an extraordinary scene where he sort of fell into- He and his partner were crying about something and then started laughing hysterically. And it felt so honest and real to me. That could be a terribly stagey thing. But it was genuine and extraordinary. And then he did a scene. In that movie, Paddy Chayefsky wrote it. And it was Altered States. He did a scene in Altered States that was mind-bogglingly good as well. Charlie hadn't acted in a really long time. He did little tiny- He's directed an enormous amount of stuff. And he would do little parts in those things. And- But I just thought he was the guy. He directed me once. And he's playing a kind of a bull, a kind of tough boss. And I thought, he's the guy. Terry Kinney, I'd worked with a bunch. Terry started the Steppenwolf Theater Company and I think is sort of a great unsung national living treasure. Oh, yeah. And he felt right to me. And he was incredible and very clever. And the third character was a young actor named John Magero, who's- John's in everything now. He's in the new Woody Allen series. He's in every movie that comes out, it seems. But he was- He was an audition. I didn't know him at all. We had a casting director who brought John in and he- And who was your casting director? David Kapp. I can't remember how to say the rest of his name. That's okay. It's like Kappaletti or Rodas. It's so long. He actually tells people to call him Dave Kapp. Dave Kapp. Yeah, it's Dave Kapp. That's good. He's a well-known- That's a good name. It's a great name. He's a well-known New York casting director who no one can pronounce the rest of it. So, but he- This kid blew the room. He blew the roof off the place and was incredibly sweet. I don't know what it was about that movie. It just felt like a gift, the whole thing, you know? And there were like Owen Reutzman got Technicolor to give us a deal and Steve Buscemi got Boardwalk Empire to give us clothes and- Oh, that's where you got the clothes. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, there was all this stuff that kept happening that was like- And tell people what the story is about. So, it's a Horton Foote play. It was based on- There's a cotton gin owner in the 1920s who one of his workers lost an arm in his cotton gin and the worker has kind of taken to drink and he comes back once a week asking for his arm back as if that can actually be given to him. And normally what happens is this sort of overbearing boss offers him $5 and he takes the $5 and goes off and gets drunk and that's that. But this time he comes back and he wants the arm back and he pulls a gun out and says, give me my arm. And he's deadly serious about it. But one of the things, I mean, we had to shoot part of it in the working cotton gin and we needed an old car. And somebody told me to go to an auto show and I went to this automobile show and there was antique engines, steam engines. There were steam engine enthusiasts, which who knew there even were, who these guys- Yeah. Had these machines. And I said, is there a way we can use them? And they said, yeah, sure. But the location we had was the second floor of an old barn and they wore, they weighed like half a ton each, these machines. And then the guy said, well, I've got a shop. It looks like a barn. Why don't you come over and you can shoot like for free? That's perfect. Wouldn't let me pay for the machine. Amazing. Wouldn't let me pay for this space that doubled for, it was unbelievable. So the whole, the whole movie, just felt like that, like this continuous- Yeah, fell into place. Yeah. Yeah. Like exactly what happens every time you direct, right? Well, I mean, to a certain degree, I mean, it happened with my movie. It happened with Silver Skies. It took me, I mean, it's years of like rejection, like years of trying to get money, get rejected. And then all of a sudden, you know, it just, once we picked a start date and then once Dennis Farina passed away, Yeah. I felt like he became a guardian angel, like your dad, sort of. I mean, that's why I was probably making your dad the guardian angel because Dennis is my guardian angel. And I just imagine that's what your dad wanted you to do. You know what I mean? And so I'm like, and it's just all, and we have not stopped moving forward. One little step at a time. We have not stopped moving forward since. And do you think the generativeness around the movie has to do with, with the thing coming out of your heart and being attached to your heart for so long? Yes, I do. Yeah. I think that sometimes I believe that a real piece of art takes years to create. There isn't like a shortcut to it, even though I want it to be a shortcut. I don't think it's the same. Yeah. I don't think, you know, Hamilton would be what it is without years of like working on it before it hits people, you know, before it gets to an audience. And I think sometimes now we're just into little short, you know, instant, instant, short, short, short, and the next thing. And, you know, I think there's something to be said as impatient a person as I am. There's something to be said about the process. Well, and also, you know, the sort of commercial nature of how the business works. Sometimes if it takes a long time, it's actually an indication that you're not fitting into this mold that basically is producing violence, porn, and, you know, like all this junk that's what the business creates. Right. And it may be a signal that you're actually on to something human and real, which is outside of that. Well, which that happens with a lot of art too, right? Yeah. It takes a while to sort of get discovered, which is why something like, I don't know why I'm talking about Hamilton, but I think that's, you know, I was listening, I don't know if it was like Charlie Rose or something with Lin-Manuel Miranda, and just listening to like the idea, or maybe it was Obama talking about, like how extraordinary, it was Obama talking to, having a speech or talking about Lin-Manuel Miranda, and that Hamilton is something that's created, that is so, he was sort of speaking to the cast, like I hope you're enjoying this, because it's so rare to have something so special that people are responding to at the time that it was created, versus later. Right. Like that that's kind of extraordinary in itself. Yeah. To have such, like, you know, confluence of like influence, and then the timing, and the planets aligning, and the politics, and diversity, and, you know, election year, and just all these things. Yeah. With like, it feels divinely inspired on some level. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, I don't, you know, maybe it all sounds highfalutin. I don't mean it to. It's funny to me, to have this conversation, because we're having, you know, a really serious conversation, at the same time that I'm doing, you know, those acting masterclass things that I'm doing. Oh, yeah. Which is making total. You can talk about those. Tell people about those, because those are insane. I mean, those are so funny. They're very short. Go ahead, tell them. So I'm doing. Do they, people know what the masterclass thing is? Yeah, there's, there are these, on, on Facebook, and I guess, anyhow, there are these online masterclasses that Dustin Hoffman, and Kevin Spacey, and now Werner Herzog is doing one. Yes. Well, they have authors doing them. Yeah. Yeah. There's all different disciplines. Well, James Patterson. Yes, yes. And, and, and, and. They're very highfalutin. And, and look, by the way, Dustin Hoffman. Is great. I mean, of course. Unbelievable. And, and Spacey. And, I mean, amazing. I watched two. And they may have fantastic things to say. No, I watched two, I watched two of the Dustin Hoffmans. I'm behind. I haven't watched. Stopped watching. I just, I just didn't keep watching them. Well, here's my thing too. But yours are really, really fun and easy to watch. They say, I'm doing this because I want to give back. And I think, well, you know, when you give back, you don't, A, you don't take money. Right. B, I don't quite get, uh, teaching where you can't see the student. Right. Like you have to know. Well, no, they have students. No, they do. But the, all the people paying all this. No, no, you're just observing. Gazillions of dollars are just watching on the computer. You're observing the class. Yeah. That's all you're doing. You're observing the class. Right. But it feels to me like it's sort of traffics in the very human, uh, terrible thing of, uh, maybe if I have proximity to greatness, I'll be great. And, and there are these crazy things like they say, if you, if you record a scene, we may watch it and, and you can go online and there are all these people. You haven't completed it. I haven't completed. Oh, are people doing that? People who've done it and said, you know, I put down three monologues and nobody looked. Anyhow, so I'm just making fun of all of that. And, and the other thing that I'm doing with it, but your pieces are actually, they're actually real. I think they're real. Well, you're talking about like branding and you're sitting in dressing rooms and you're like in like, you know, places where like, then some, but then the real actor, the real actor, like the real star meaning of the show. Like I watched when you're on bones or something, you must've been guesting on bones or something. Right. Yeah. And then like, it's always humiliating. I'm always humiliating myself. And I'm dispensing, terrible advice. And the other thing though, but it's totally, and you do it with an English accent, which is brilliant. It's actually not that, that accent is actually, it's what they call the mid Atlantic accent. It's what they teach in theater schools. And it's this weird bullshit, very British, not really. No one speaks it anywhere in the United States, but it's, they say it's a sort of standard American dialect and it's not, it's just like it lives in academia. Well, it's kind of hilarious. Yes. And, and, but, but that's like the thing. Like I keep feeling like I'm, cause none of us in the business are allowed to talk about our failure. We don't ever talk about failure. We're, we're supposed to, well, we do here. We can talk. I am, I am on that thing. And so I regularly bring up movies that I may not be so proud of, but in that persona, he's, he's very, very proud of him. Right. But I was thinking, I mean that branding thing, it's so, cause I hate it. And every young actor's into it. And, and when I was a young actor, it's part of the language today. It's just what you do. I know it is, but we used to call it typecasting. Yeah. Branding. Yeah. The other thing about branding is it means you're asserting a facade of yourself, which is only victorious, which is only the perfect me. Who's look, it's the sexy young man or the, you know, whatever the hell that is. And, and, and that's not a full thing, man. You, you gotta fail. Right. You know, but also you're just like, I'm having so much fun. That's the, but it's really good. And people should watch them. I really think that they're actually lessons in reality. That's really what my, that may not be your intention. No, but it's actually truthful and is very down to earth. And it's actually really what happens and what real thoughts are really going on. Yeah. It is. I know it is. It's a lot of the real thoughts, but it's not thoughts we're supposed to talk about, but it is the real thing. Cause when I go in, I talk, I talk on many panels and I'll help the DGR. I'll do, I'll do, I'll do, I'll talk to, I'll talk to students. Like I like doing that because I do feel like it's a way to sort of like, you want to sort of inspire people and you want it to be easier for them than it was for you. So you want to, but also I want to get out and I want to tell them what's really true because I know what it's like sitting on the other side and listening to, you know, a panel of like distributors and producers and writers and just saying, Oh, just do what's in your heart. And it's all going to come out. And it's like, yeah, I mean, we just had conversations. Yes. It comes from your heart. Of course it does. But do you need to come out? Do you need to come to a room? You are not in that audience to hear that. You're, you're in the audience to hear, how do I get the money to make a movie? Right. How do I actually do it? When I get the job to direct a TV show, what is the first thing I'm supposed to do? Right. I mean, you kind of allude to that. Where's the bathroom? Where's the water? I mean, there are basics that it's okay to ask. Yeah. Because you may be afraid to ask something basic. Yeah. And then you're caught out there. It all makes you nervous. Do you know what I mean? And, and it's like, so you're sort of addressing in a funny way. I'm not giving anybody any good advice on any of these real things. I think you do in an indirect way because you're pointing out the absurdities and you're also deconstructing the myth. Yeah. Of like what it really is like. Again, getting back to the glamour of like traveling and the life that we lead. I mean, you're basically getting on and like making fun of it all. Right. But that's deconstructing it, making it real to me. That's why I think it's really smart. I'm loving doing it. I'm good. So everyone can get on. So it's hilarious to me because, and you just said it too, like we're talking and it's true. Like what we're saying about, oh, the projects in my heart and this and that and it, and that's a ridiculous thing simultaneously. And it's totally true. And it's totally true. I know. But there's a paradox to all of it. So, so did, so, okay, let me go back to one of my questions, which, which you kind of like, we're talking about on the Charlie Hayes stuff. You talked about the scene, like two scenes that really stuck with you. So, I believe, you know, sometimes I have a pet peeve about people when they say, oh, you know, this isn't brain surgery or it's not, you know, we're not curing cancer here. And I feel like I have a pet peeve because this is my life, but also because I actually believe that movies, perhaps television, I'm not sure, but have the power to change who we are. I believe that. I was in college. There was a guy named Charlie Frone, who, uh, was a theater history teacher and an English teacher and, and a sweet, lovely man. Charlie had a, um, terrible stroke. And I went to visit him in the hospital on his birthday. And he had half of his body was immobilized. And the, they, somebody requested, he loved opera and somebody requested his favorite aria. And it came on the radio and he wept. And I'm, I will never question whether art is powerful, whether art, uh, has enormous meaning in people's lives. Charlie Frone taught me. I, it's, it's not questionable. Right. It isn't questionable. So those scenes that you're talking about influence you about an actor. Is there a movie or a scene in a movie that has really stayed with you? Like one that you just go back to in your mind. Like you just, it's like, that's where your heart lies. And somebody did that. There's some, there's so many, you know, it's so funny that you wish you directed like that. That's only happens to me a couple of times. Yeah. That's a movie. That's a movie that I have loved so much. What? What is it? Um, well, one of them was a diving bell in the butterfly. Yeah. I love that movie. Yeah. And I left that theater like, I wish I directed that movie. Yeah. It's very rare that it happens to me. And I love movies, but I don't often feel like, wow, they just, I don't know. There's like a million. I don't know how you even begin to like, cause I go like, Oh, the king of hearts and the, the, uh, the big Lebowski and, and like, there's like 8 million movies that destroy me. And they're funny movies too. Like there's, there's an awful movie called victory with Sylvester Stallone. It's a terrible movie. He's, uh, um, I don't know that movie. You don't know victory with Sylvester Stallone? No. You call yourself a director? I know. I'm sorry. I'm writing it down. It's a, uh, Nazi, uh, prisoner of war camp. And, it's a drama. Yes. And the Nazis decide, they, want to play soccer against the prisoners. Okay. And they go to a stadium in France. Um, and the, uh, the French resistance tunnels under the stadium, uh, at halftime into the locker room. So the team can run away, but they're beating the Nazis. So they don't want to leave. So they don't want to leave. So that's the big thing. It's the stupidest movie. However, Pele is in the movie and, and he's, he acts as well as Pele does, but he, there's a, there's a moment when, uh, they're practicing and somebody kicks a ball and it comes over the top of Pele's head this way. And he leaps into the air and he kicks it with his feet and lands like on his head and neck. And it's the commitment. And I'm not, I'm so not a sports guy. There's no, I don't watch sports. I don't care. It's the most beautiful. Like you think if, if I could be that committed to things in my life, and I weep, I, and if the stupid movie is on TV, I sit there and I wait and wait and wait for Pele. That moment. And it hits me. And I, I have like, I mean, it's one of those like down there kind of, it's such a funny thing too. That's great. That's a great example. I love that. Now I have to watch that. There are movies that have, I remember years and years ago, I was going to, um, Las Vegas to do Crime Story. Remember that show? And, uh, and I'm on the airplane and there, Dennis, that's right. Dennis slapped me around in that show. Um, did he? He did. He did. You don't want to get, he's got a big hand. I love him. I love Dennis. I did too. God bless him. But, um, but I'm on this flight and they're flying me business class. And it's all la-di-da. And the movie Harry and the Hendersons was on. And I, I started, I don't know what happened. I just started sobbing. There was something about, we're going to return the Sasquatch. To the woods. I never saw that one either. Don't. Don't bother. That one I'm not going to watch. No. Just something like sometimes, you know? Yeah. And there are movies I think that are great at times in your life. Yeah. That you, you go back to and you go, ah, you know? But they, they're so meaningful. And that's real. Yeah. You know? No, that's real. That's very real. I mean, there's, yeah, that's very real. When you were talking about that one moment, because I'm not a sports person either, but I remembered, um, at the last Olympics when Sean White was there. Um, Sean White. Okay. Well, he's, he's a snowboarder. He's amazing. Yeah. And he had done however many runs and what he did. And he already had the gold. He had already like qualified enough and he was the top guy, but he had one more run he could do if he chose to, but he didn't have to do it. He already would have won the gold. Right. But because he loves what he does, he did it anyway. And it was so, I mean, and not only did he do it, but he had that paleo, like he showed commitment beyond and what he performed and what he did made me cry. It was so amazing. The fact that he didn't have to, because every time those guys do it, they risk breaking their neck. I mean, it's the same. It's crazy. And, and that level of commitment, I always think about that moment and the fact that he did it. I, you know, I work, uh, Philippe Petit is a friend of mine and I, I help him sometimes. Man on wire. Man on wire. And, um, we were working on, a little, um, little movie thing he did in New York. And there, there's a thing with a tight rope, which it, it goes this way and it goes up and down and side to side. It's always alive and it's always moving. And you're always falling and always getting yourself back into balance. Every second on the wire is that. And to stand still is impossible. And we were on this set. Even he can't stand still. I saw him do it. It's not possible. I saw him stand still. For, I don't know what it felt like. Maybe 10 seconds, 15 seconds, which sounds like nothing. No, that's a long time. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And to me, more impressive than walking between the World Trade Center towers that he did that. And nobody saw it. It was just, he was just on the wire and he stopped for a second. I, I don't know how to even, uh, express that because it feels like inside baseball a little bit. But he knew it was, it was, it was, I don't know. But he, cause I was like, how did you do that? I hate you. You just did that. But is that like a regular thing? Is he so experienced in it and so grounded in doing that, that that's something he can do regularly? Or was that extraordinary for him? I, I don't even know that he knew he did it. I, he, he just did it. I mean, he has a thing when he teaches called the moment of perfection, where you, you, uh, go up on kind of releve and come down and freeze and you fall right off. I mean, it's impossible not to fall off. You're just holding something. Right. Uh, but he did it. He did. I, I don't know. This isn't leading anywhere. You've just excited. It's okay. It's, it comes down to, it's the same thing. Look, the conversation circular, cause we're talking about working really hard, traveling all this stuff we do just to come down to moments. Yeah. That moments of grace, moments of art moments of that comes from collaboration that are special. It's the same. It's like the little moments in life that we live for. Yeah. You know, when none of us can live in them all the time, I don't know if maybe people that go live in a, you know, mountain monastery somewhere in a mountain top or something. But I mean, when you can accomplish those moments amidst all the chaos that we live in and then our businesses in, I think it makes it pretty extraordinary. Yeah. And then you're talking about movement on a wire coming from one action into complete stillness sounds. Yeah. I, I understand that. Yeah. I wouldn't know how to do it, but I definitely understand it. You would, I would, you would, you fight for balance your whole life. Every second of your life, you're fighting, you're fighting for balance right now, every second. And it's just, you're limiting what you have to be balanced on a little bit, but you could, you could do it. Really? Yeah. It's 99% this, the meat in your head. Yeah. That's always the enemy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like fear. Yeah. Like fear, insecurities. Yeah. So, so when you, when you have to deal with actors, all right, well, I, I worked with Charlie. Yeah. Paid on one of his, I mean, he hadn't worked for a million years when I worked with him on third watch. And it was, I think the second episode of television I directed and he was already a director because he's a director of television. He's been directing for a long time and I'm not sure the scene, but I feel like I remember the scene from hill street blues. But in any case, I was a fan of his as well from that show. And so when I got to work with him, Charlie wouldn't mind me saying he was nervous. Yeah. He was nervous about remembering his lines. Yeah. And I mean, he had speeches to give. Yeah. He was like the captain and he, you know, so, so did you, when you have to deal with an actor or perhaps anyone on your crew or whatever, that was nervous or did he display any of that? Or was there any, any times like, what do you do with people? Even when you go in and guest as an actor and there's someone new, maybe that you have to work with, how do you help them? Oh, um, well, I've been with actors who can't, who are having trouble with lines and I let them know I've been through that. That's the first thing is you're not alone. I heard it when Phil Hoffman passed away, a guy who was in his company told a great story that he had gone to a, he was in a rehearsal with Phil and Phil was directing him and he was very nervous to be directed by Phil and they finished the scene or whatever. And Phil said, I would have done that. And he said, what he said, you'd that moment where you, you got up and went and had the glass of water. I would have done that. And, and he was very, Oh, and, and then Phil continued and said, yeah, if I didn't know what I was doing, I would have gone and grabbed a glass of water like that. But I think, I think it's actually in listening to it, such a giving way of giving that direction because it's not saying you're bad, you're wrong. It's saying, um, Oh yeah, look how human you are. You're doing that thing we do. And what you really need to do is just allow yourself to be here. You know, and that can be the hardest thing. Oh, it is. It is the hardest thing. It's the hardest thing. And the, and, uh, to be still is, uh, um, it's the hardest thing. And it's also the only thing that works. The only thing that, well, sometimes if somebody is not, if I'm working with an actor and they really can't be still, yeah, or they really can't. And I just sense that. Yeah. Whether I've seen it or, you know, whether I've seen, you know, the first take or, or whatever, or just in blocking, I can just feel it or sense it or something. Then there are times when picking up that glass of water, their head can be helpful because it takes them out of their, like, well, that's just being, then it's just make it real life. Yeah. And then they're just doing this and it, and it takes the curse off of it. If that makes sense, they have to be serving something other than their fear and ego. Yeah. And if that's grabbing that glass of water, if that's making sure that Rosemary say, okay, while we're talking, it's some external thing. They've got to be working with, I have to be working with, but there are other times. This is so interesting. I've never really articulated this. Other times when actors are nervous. Yeah. And I see they're nervous and they just want to do business. Yeah. They just want to do things. Yeah. Cause they want to deflect. So you're not really looking at that. That's right. And then that's the opposite. Then I have to be like, you know what? It's doesn't mean you have to do this right here. Why don't we just not do that? Well, but, but isn't it too, we're getting into such a morass. I know, I know, but it's good. but also if, if this stuff is all busy deflecting, then it's exactly that same. It's all that thing about getting into stillness and stillness is because if you're deflecting, you're actively engaged in your ego and your fear. And instead of being present, I think this is very hard sometimes to help people. I find sometimes I don't, sometimes I can be at a loss when somebody is just, you know, just too scared or just too nervous about something. And all I can do is do what you do, which is just trying, try to be as, you know, loving as possible. But I had a, um, a ballet teacher once who was kind of ferocious, tough guy. And my, uh, a guy I trained with, uh, on tight where I'd said, you have to go to ballet and boxing. So I was actively training those things. And so we would do bar work and then we'd go out on the floor and do combinations. And I was terrible at the combinations, awful. And one day he said, Guinea, what are you going to do with all that failure? You have inside yourself. You do know it's the one thing I can't fix. You know that, don't you? Which was like, but, but then, uh, like I thought that's, that's the thing, man. It may be the best direction anybody's ever given. Because you remember, I mean, that really hit you. You're like the failures in here. Boom. Oh yeah. He went right in with that thing. And it was, I mean, I was indignant and like, you just yelled, I yelled at it, a room full of people, right? But he was absolutely right. Absolutely right. And to your point, it was, it wasn't going to be a job you were going to fix. That's my job to fix that, that fear. I'm, I'm the only one who can do it. I've never been in a situation where somebody yells at me. I'm not either, but that's okay too. Sometimes. It's just me. I'm just not. Yeah. There is, there are, I have to say, again, that goes back to, to being on set. It's like, there are times though, for whatever reason, when I'm actually on set and there could be an actor who gets pissed off and yells or something. For some reason, I can just, it can just totally fly past me and doesn't phase me. But isn't that, isn't that about like going, oh, that we're in the process, you know, we're in a process. But it's not even like, I'm not even articulating in my head. It's just something that just happens. It's just something that just happens. Out in the world. If somebody yells at me, I'm a mess. Yeah. Or I want to just be like, fuck you. You have authority too. You know what I mean? And I don't mean that in terms of like power. I mean, you have, you have known authority with yourself that you know what you're doing. But if you don't know that inside, then I don't have anything. But you do on a set. Well, I kind of, I kind of do. You do. I know. I kind of do. I don't know why. Because you're good at what you do. I don't know. You've worked really hard at it for a really long time. Quit talking. It just, take it. Take the compliment. Take the compliment. What is, thank you. I'm not going to stop talking. No, that doesn't work. Thank you. Thank you. We're done. What is, you're a really good director. Take it. Okay. Stop. You know, stillness. Stop. Look at me. Okay. Oh, that's so funny. Thank you. I do think I'm a good director. I'm a good director. You are. Well, I like, I like, I like what I do. I really, and I do love actors. Yeah. And I love, I love camera when it like work. I love when all of that comes together. Yeah. When the acting, the camera comes together and we're in, it's just, it's just, there's nothing better. There's like nothing better in the whole world. It's just crazy. So, so have you ever gotten like a piece of direction? That was one guy yelling at you about something, touching something deep inside. But have you ever had a moment where you were really stuck on set or just, just frustrated with something? And then a director just said something that just like, yeah, what happened? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you one. I did this. I did, it was doing a TV pilot. And my, I'd been shot and I had to die. And my daughter was there. And I'm acting, acting my fear and my, and Jon Favreau, the director came up and he said, take care of her. Take care of your daughter. And it was perfect. Great direction. Great direction. Really great direction. A lot. I get, I get lucky. Oh, that's good. I like that. I just got chills with that. Yeah. He's a good guy. Yeah. Yeah. And that was really smart direction. Yeah. And simple, you know. Well, because that's not easy. That stuff is just like trying to have sex and then trying to die and get shot. That stuff is not easy. That's when you, I don't want to know about your personal life. No, no, no. I'm saying on set. Why would you say that? That's a terrible thing. Why is it hard for you to have sex? No, no, no. This is so much more interesting for the viewing audience. Because people think it's like, it's hard to do those things, to play that you're getting shots, to be in bed with somebody, having sex. Like all that stuff is like weird. You know, I did this movie for the Australian broadcasting company called The Road from Corain that I actually loved. I thought it was a really good movie, but there's this scene where a woman and I were supposed to have slept together and we're lying post coital in bed. In this motel and talking. And then we see a flea. We realized they're fleas on the bed. That's sort of the scene. So we're sitting there and as actors will do, we're sucking our bits in and covering parts that we don't want. And you start doing that and there's nothing real about it because we don't do this. And I decided that what I should would do is when we discovered the fleas, I would jump up on the bed and start trying to stomp on the fleas because in doing that there would be no way not to make my body as hideously ugly as it can be. I mean to really expose and to flap parts around and, and anyhow, it was just, it was, it was magic and it was such a lovely. It was real. Yeah, I know. It's all about trying to make it real. So, all right, now we're, we're kind of like at a close. Just when I talk about my penis flapping around, that's it for you. That's it. We're done now. That's it. No, it made me actually want to go back to the beginning and then get into like sex scenes and stuff, but we'll do that next time you come. Okay. You'll come next time. Yeah. Again. Yes. Okay. So before we go, tell, tell people, tell me, tell people where that we, we can find you, what you're doing. Um, uh, I'm involved in a show called Scott Neary's booby trap. If you're in LA, it's on Wednesday nights. Uh, I'm very tangentially involved, but it's a great show. So go, uh, the movie 99 homes we were talking about earlier is out on, um, I don't know what some, one of those platforms. Okay. It's out in the world. And then there's a bunch of TV stuff that's coming. Anything you want to, Oh, what do we find you on Twitter? You're on Facebook. Oh, I'm on the Twitter and the Facebook. Your masterclass. And I have a masterclass on YouTube. Tim Guinea's acting masterclass. That's right. Tim Guinea's acting masterclass. It's really fun. It's really fun. There are like a couple minutes each. They're not. Yeah. Yeah. No, nothing is really fun. You can watch them all in like a half because we're Dustin and Kevin have great volumes of experience to pass on. I only have little tiny spot volumes, so it's very, it's very brief, but they're good. They're good. You can watch them really quickly. So, all right, great. So don't forget everybody to subscribe to the director's chair, um, at we play radio.com. Um, and don't miss any episodes. And you can find me on Twitter. Um, on Facebook, Rosemary Rodriguez, um, on Twitter and Instagram. It's at Rosemary directs and look out for silver skies, the movie. Um, we're going to have distribution in the fall. Very excited. Um, so as always, director's chair is about collaboration and thanks everyone who's listening for collaborating with us tonight. Have a good night. Come on, people. It's time to live it up. Good night.