We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Oh, come on. My beautiful, that's a beautiful co-host, Nicole Six. Sorry. That was not my beautiful co-host, Nicole Six. That was the beautiful Michael Lee Gogin. And we also have Carl Crew here. Hello. And Nicole, do you want to greet them? Hello. Hi. Hi. Hello. You already said hello, but that is Michael Lee Gogin, who's been, you've seen this face. You've seen him in quite a few movies, TV shows. He's been in everything. This guy is the modern day Forrest Gump, as we found out in the car ride over here. He's been around. Everybody, everything. He's got a lot of stories and he's a cool guy. How are you, Michael? I'm good. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. And you're right next to the Barnum of Burbank Boulevard. He's so great. He's so cool. I know he's so cool. The star, you didn't know Carl was a star of Blood Diner after I posted it a million times? I'm sorry. Do you remember the big wrestling scene? I'm going to cry. Oh, it's okay. I love Blood Diner. It's a good thing I'm sitting between them. Do you remember the big wrestling scene? Yeah. That was the... He's the brother, the goofy brother that wrestled. Yeah. Carl Crew. Little Jimmy Hitler. So, little Jimmy Hitler. We shot that film at the end of the shoot and it was the very last shoot we did. And I got hurt. I'm sure. He threw me and I was like... I went and laid down for like 20 minutes and I was all freaked out. You don't fuck around with little Jimmy Hitler. And we're going to get to our sponsors later, but we're going to get a conversation going. Nicole, have you ever been to the California Institute of Abnormal Arts? I haven't. You've seen the pictures though? Yes. It's a fascinating place. And Carl and I became Facebook friends about a month ago. Yay! Prior to the show or when you knew he was coming out? Prior to the show. But I think he probably knew he was... I mean, he probably saw me through you. I did, baby. Amen. That's destiny through you to Nicole. It's all psychic and things. Because he was telling me today. He's like, I know, Nicole. We were talking about maybe booking and all this other stuff. They're having a relationship now. Good for them. Yeah. One of the faces in books. It's all very grimoire. Well, you both... I mean, you both are in the horror... Horror industry in your own ways. You both have a dark, macabre sense of humor, which is perfect for this show. I like my corn on the macabre. Who doesn't? California Institute of Abnormal Arts was open... Was it 20 years ago? 10 years ago? How many years ago? Yeah, 20 years ago. Because I stumbled in about 10 years ago myself. You were having midnight movies. Yeah. Old, crappy, Ed Wood style movies. Yeah, which I love. I love it too. On a Friday night. And I was like, I got to play at this place. Now, I have to describe this for people. I was going to send pictures to Jenny. I'm going to post. But if you go to the... What's the website? California Institute of Abnormal Arts? Well, we're on Facebook right now. We're working on a new website. We're working with a neurosurgeon. So I can't even give away the secrets of what we're doing. A neurosurgeon is working on your website? Yeah, yeah. We're going to have a way to scan your frequency of your brain, and we can do commercials in your brain without a computer. Just like Futurama. Yeah, amen. I like it. I like it. But it's Facebook CI Abnormal Arts. CI Abnormal Arts. Yeah, that's where we're posting all our shows right now. And there's... There's also a Facebook CI Abnormal Arts flyer album. And that is all the flyers I've designed for like 20 years. And there's also CIA. And that's more historical, this crazy stuff that's happened there, yeah. So 20 years ago, what was your original conception of the California Institute of Abnormal Arts? My conception? Because it's changed a few times. My conception. It's changed a few times over the years. Well, actually, I took over the building. I ran into my... I was a mortician for a while. And years ago. And... One of the students in the second student apartment over the mortuary was my business partner now, Bob. Right. That's where I met him. And years later, we ran into each other in Hollywood. And I had just been making films for a few years. Right. And I set up a distribution company to sell my films. Right. So we took over the CIA club. Films such as Gross Out. Gross Out, Urban Legends, Lunch with Larry. New Bowling. New Bowling. You laughing, huh? No, no, no. It's real. Tell her about New Bowling. New Bowling was a... It was a short film. The first film I ever directed. Okay. Ten minutes long. But we... Of New Bowling. It was called The Art of Nude Bowling. Oh, The Art of New Bowling. Excuse me. Yes, please. And we used an 1100 pound naked woman bowling in it. Oh, wow. Yeah. She was a... She looked like a Sharpay. Okay. Yeah. Like the Michelin lady, you know. So how did you know if she got a strike or not? Well, we never knew anything because she sat in the saw and we just all died. Actually, what we did was we shot it in color. And I had some... Playboy models bowling beside her, you know. Ron Jeremy. And Ron Jeremy was in it. And actually, another friend of mine who's a really big producer right now, and I can't say his name. But the really funny thing is, is that what we did was we shot it in color. Yeah. And then we transferred it to black and white. And I took the negative and I scratched it with sandpaper. Oh. And then I took a little scratchy tool and scratched out the genitals of the two guys, which is a lot of work with Ron Jeremy. And what we did was we put a crawl in the beginning of the film. This film was found in the Underground Hollywood Film Bank. And it is traced back to the very first work of art by Alfred Hitchcock. And we just let it fly. Did people buy that it was Alfred Hitchcock? A lot of people did, yeah. I mean, it's ridiculous, you know. But it's just a 10-minute thing. And it's just, you know, it's maximalism. And that's what we're all about at the CIA. Oh, definitely. It's a sensory overload. It's hard to describe. I describe it as like a circus sideshow. But you're changing that. It's kind of a circus sideshow meets Chinatown now. Well, yeah. We've gone all ancient Chinese secret. You pay first. Yes. I grew up in Chinatown in San Francisco, which is vast and dark. And you know what? So cool. It sounds like you're not the only one because you grew up in San Francisco. Can you believe that? Yeah. No, no, no ticket, no laundry. No. You have ticket, you get laundry. You pay first. You pay. You pay. You pay first. You pay first. Can you blame them? We just lost our big Chinese and Korean following. I love them all. I don't care. I'm a big Chinese. I think it's just good business. We can. You definitely pay first. I'm going to have plastic surgery and change and be Chinese. No starchy. I understand. I grew up in San Francisco. You're right. Amazing. But not Chinatown. No, but you know what? Every major corner in San Francisco has an MJ or a K2 market or whatever. It's just a little handy market that's for that neighborhood. Yeah. And I remember this guy named MJ. Right. Oh, my God. He was so cool. And he was so right on with the kids in the neighborhood. And just, you know, I saw him when he had dark hair all the way up until he got gray hair. I mean, like, that was a part of the neighborhood. Right. Right. So I kind of miss that. Don't you kind of miss that once in a while? Well, I tell you what. I mean, I'm in North Hollywood now. Okay. San Francisco is a place where you go, oh, well, you go here to get your cheese. You go here to get your box. That's right. You go here to get your deals. All these little mom and pop stores are so cool. And down here, it's like CVS and Denny's. Totally. That's just because you're in North Hollywood. Yeah. Totally. Tell me about it. I have to run screaming out of there. Although North Hollywood is going through a whole renaissance now. Yeah, the last 20 years. Yeah, the NoHo Arts District. You know, we've always been everything that the NoHo embodies. You know? Theater, film, art, everything. And we were just on the fringe of the NoHo, which is very apt. Right. But they wouldn't even hang a NoHo banner in front of our place. I was going to say, does the NoHo Arts District recognize? Well, they do now. But, I mean, they wouldn't hang a banner in front. I mean, they were hanging banners up the street. We did the laundromat. I'm like, dude, you know, what are you doing? So we did our own banner, the SoSo Arts District. I remember that. They got really bummed out. Yeah. It was really good. I remember that. So you walk in, though. Let me tell you. And, Michael, I don't even know where to start with you. You've got such a, you've been through so many things. Don't get started with me now. You've been acting for quite some time. You were in the original Lord of the Rings. I was. Not the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings. That's right. And when I say the original Lord of the Rings, if people don't know, it was about 1988. Or 79? 77, 78. Ralph Foxy, who did Fritz the Cat and other animated things, animated movies. He was quite a character to work with. Cool World. No doubt. Was he really? Oh, my God. Hollywood if she could. And he did a movie adaptation, an animated adaptation of Lord of the Rings. And you were Gollum. I was Gollum. I was Smeagol. So cool. And I had a great time. I mean, my. Do you still do the Gollum voice? Yes. Yes. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah working around the clock to make that cartoon look so real as it did. Right. So it was awesome. I haven't, I've seen the Hobbit. I haven't seen that one. And maybe, I think I saw it, but it's long, long time ago. Oh my God. You're, you have to see it at least one time. Right. Because you will know that all of it is real. It's real animation. Right. Well, I've seen, I've seen his other movies, like American Pop and other ones where he rotoscoped and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it is, it is, it's a little different. It's, it's a different type of experience. Totally. Yeah. And, you know, we had to move to the vocals and then of course become that action that we did. Like there's one scene where I had to lift this Bilbo or Sam character way over my head. And I'm thinking to myself, that was Billy Barty. And he had just had a quadruple heart. And you picked him up. And I said, Billy, are you out of your fricking mind? Right. You know, I'm like 20 something. He was, he was 50 something, almost 60 something. Right. And he says, go ahead, kid, kid, I can handle it. I said, but I don't want, I don't want to hurt you. And he goes, I'm okay. Wow. I did. And I, I was really careful about it. And they had these mats on the floor. What a pro. He was really a pro. And, that's some history. We were strong. Right. Some of our younger viewers don't know, Billy Barty was, he was, you know, I, explain it the way you explained it, in the car. Well, when you look at, when you look at, the, what's that movie, Willow, he was the wizard. He was the wizard Willow. I'm sorry. Oh, the bird. He was the wizard Willow. Forget the bird. And he was, I mean, he was the, the most marketable, little person actor for years and years and years. Absolutely. He's got so much personality. Yeah. Well, especially in Willow. But he also had a show for children on the morning. Right. And he did a time, the clown thing that he did. Cool. I, I, I, don't remember that. Every day. I remember, I mean, I, I remember Billy Barty, like towards the end when he was doing, you know, he, when he was doing the, you know, just, he did, did the movie with Chevy Chase. I think you were in that one. Yes. You're talking about foul play. And then you're also talking about under the rainbow. Now here's a story. This is a truth. I turned down. He's got so many stories. I turned down foul play. I did not like the storyline. I didn't like the idea. I was going to be tossed out of a window. Right. Ending up in a trash can, rolling down the hill of San Francisco. This is, that sounds like a, right up Billy's alley. Three years later, three years later, I, I'm, I'm, I ended up guest starring another, in another movie with Chevy Chase in it. And it worked out just great. Oh, okay. And I was under the rainbow. So I introduced all the characters at the train station. So it was awesome. Cause you got one of those faces. People are like, I've seen you. I've seen you in something. They do it all the time. I just don't know what. And yeah. And, and, and, but, but, you gotta tell the Peter Jackson story. Cause, I, I, I, Peter Jackson. Now this is the, the, the Lord of the Rings that everybody knows. That was a big hit. The live action. He brought you in to audition. Not, not one time, not two times. How about three or four times? And they filmed these auditions. They film all the auditions. And what makes, uh, people from the short statute community upset is that what he was doing was, uh, characterizing us, you know, for his project by our movement. So, he would take our movements, uh, slice off somebody's, uh, at the, at the neck and put their body or, and head together with some other actor that were doing all the movement in the film. And we, we, as short statured, uh, actors, we feel like we got chipped. We got, you know, that was, so your body might've been in the Lord of the Rings. My body might've been in the Lord of the Rings. When you look at a movie as fantastic as Willow, and I think we can all agree that would have been a much better movie. Yeah. There is absolutely no substitute for live action or puppetry. No. And I really wish directors would start learning that CGI is just CGI. That's right. Well, actually, actually it's gotten a lot better. It has. It used to be really bad. Although, although that one. Like Del Toro, some, some directors genuinely get it. They understand how important it is to have a skeleton, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely. And I, I'm a big supporter of that. I think it's really, it's a lot easier to work with too, but eventually it's going to become to the point where CGI takes over everything. It's almost there. Yeah, it's almost there right now. I mean, it needs to be a lot better first. You're right. And stop being outsourced. But really, I mean, the Lord of the Rings is as sad as that situation is. It broke new grounds with CGI. I mean, now you can literally do anything in a film. Anything. Right. I mean, just the opposite. And you can pass it off. Just the opposite could happen for me. Right. To play an action hero. Absolutely. So, I mean, I would love to do that. Right. I think, I think Nicole's picturing that right now. I was thinking it kind of in my head looks like 300. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That little Xerxes action going on. There you go. But anyway, so, so I've got to take you to the CIA one of these days, Nicole, because you walk in, there's a, it's like, it's like, there's this yellow gate that opens up. You walk in, Carl's there and Carl's quite a character. It's going to take you a while to talk to him before you get in. He's going to make sure you had a shot, the whole thing. You walk in, the displays that they have. I mean, it's not just a great performance space. It's amazing performance space. Best, probably the best sound in LA. And just, just when you surround the stage, yeah, go ahead and take the compliments. And the stage is just striking. It's, it's, it's just colorful. It's amazing. But on the way to the stage, there is the, a mummified fairy. There's the auditorium. So it's like the goth and world city. It's kind of the goth and world city in what we call the city of the gods. It's kind of like messed up puffing stuff. So I remember when you first showed. That's why I described the radioactive chicken heads as puffing stuff on the outside. Radioactive chicken heads, which we have to get on this show. Oh yeah. They're a great band. They have, the lead singer's Carrot Top, but not that Carrot Top. Right. The guy that actually has a carrot, foam carrot head. That's much more interesting. We're going to have that. We've performed at our place like 150 times. Right. Brilliant, brilliant. But, so how did you acquire the fairy? Well, I used to be an antique dealer too. Right. A mortician and antique dealer. He's awesome. He comes right out of a book. And I grew up in a repertory theater group since I was a kid till I was like 22. Right. Touring all over. So kind of that background. So you did repertory acting, then you were a mortician. Yeah. Then you started acting again. Well, I've always never stopped acting. Yeah. Because actually the mortuary is total show business too. You know, like you have your lights, your makeup, your cameras, you know, the whole music. Yeah, except the audience doesn't applaud. They're just on slaps. Yeah. Or crying. Yeah. Yeah. It's really sad. But anyway, you know, my father's a cardiovascular surgeon. So I grew up seeing heart surgery. Right. So like to me, it was a great relief that they weren't in pain, you know? But at some point I'm like, yeah, I'm an artist. I gotta get out of here. So, but it was a really good background for me when I did the Jeffrey Dahmer film. But anyway, I think when people come down to the CIA, it's always been about creating a interdimensional place where you can kind of escape the normal and the real. Yeah. And I think that's what I've been doing for a long time. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, and slot machines and all that stuff. I traded it all in for dead things. Yeah. So I just started finding these other weird things going and I started collecting those more. And eventually, you know, at the CIA, when we, well, what happened with the CIA, we were a distribution company and it's just, we were eaten alive by the phone company back when Ma Bell just sucked your blood and also the UPS. And it just ate us alive. And my friend goes, oh, dude, I want to do a Academy Award party here. I said, oh, okay. So we did it and it was so successful. At the end, it was just like, duh. We just, uh-huh. I mean, what were you using it before the party? I was thinking, I don't know what we're going to do. Was this a performance space? Are you living there? It was very clear. It was like, yeah. You were living there? It was a performance space? It was, I mean, what was it? Well, it wasn't anything. It was a distribution company. Oh, okay. So that is the key. And then all of a sudden, I looked at my partner, Bob, and I was like, pfft. And then we looked at my friend. I never knew Bob used to be an artist. Yeah, he's the guy that I met at the mortuary. Yeah, which I found on your Wikipedia page. Yeah. We should do a proper hello to Bob. Hello, Bob. Hello, Bob. Hi, Bob. Hi, Bob. One of the most brilliant artists I've ever worked with. Right. Totally. I mean, he paints a painting and it sells before I can even hang it on the wall. Right. Like, jerk. So, I mean, which, I would say, I don't know, the severed arm of Claude de Lorraine or the dead clown or the fairy. The very first artifact we got was the arm of Claude de Lorraine. And it's still there. 20 years later. It's cursed if you photograph it. It's on Ripley's, believe it or not. If you go to our Facebook CI Abnormal Arts page, there is a clip with Dean Cain doing the whole thing on it. And then they got canceled. Well, yeah. See, they took a picture of it. See, you can't photograph it. Yeah, that's the deal. I've seen 300 people take pictures in the last 20 years. I've never heard of any problems, but I've never really seen any of them again. And Ripley's is off the air. Oopsie. Right. But the cool thing about it is you can leave something on the bars and get a wish in 24 hours. We've been doing it for 20 years. And you've heard stories about that. Well, I have a trunk load of stuff of things people have left. And I've never heard of anyone not getting their wish. Really? Except for two weeks ago. A woman came and said, Ali, get my damn wish. I said, child, what did you do? What did you do? She goes, what do you mean? I said, did you leave something for me yourself? No. I said, mm-hmm. That is your problem. What did you do? I borrowed a penny. Well, can't do that. You don't take a penny when you want a wish. Yeah, yeah. It's ridiculous. Anyway, so the two rules are whatever you leave, it has to come from you. Right. And also, you can never verbalize what you wish for. Right. Ever. Right. And I have a trunk load of stuff from the last 20 years. When it gets filled, we're going to put it all in a giant frame so you can see 20 years worth of offer. What's the weirdest thing that somebody's left there? Oh, child. Some of that. Yeah. There's a lot of weird stuff. You can say anything on this show if you really want to. Well, you know, I mean, there's everything from Hello Kitty keychains to, you know, all kinds of weird charms and crazy stuff. You're being kind. You're being kind. Come on. Yeah, I am being kind. Let it out. I mean, as far as magic goes, it's always about tribute of some form. So some form of sacrifice, some sort of exchange. Yeah. Yes. So it's interesting. We kind of draw the line, you know, I'm saying, because... Yes. Yeah, we draw a line. I have studied the occult for many, many years and, yeah, there's a certain line I won't cross. And I've met a lot of really, really people deeply involved in it. And I find this, these days people come to me because they know I give a tour with some very strange things and know a little bit about it. I get people coming to me all the time going, dude, I'm seeing shadow people. I'll say, well, are you dropping LSD? No, no. I really say, well, okay, what's your deal? I mean, do you have any involvement with the occult? I mean, do you do anything like that? Right, right. You know, tarot cards, whatever. And usually, pretty much most of the time they do or they have someone in their family who has been involved. And sometimes in that world, these familiars are passed down through family generation. It's really weird. Well, anything that relies heavily on blood. I mean, whatever I believe because we know I'm mostly science-based. I understand the laws of how they all work. Well, you know, the thing about science-based is like people, I love when people say, well, science has nothing to do with the Bible. And it's like the exact opposite, really. People have spent their entire careers trying to prove that the Bible has no concept of science. And really, it's the exact opposite. It's hilarious. Which is, which is, well, God created science. Of course. Science really was based on biblical principles. And I think what the problem is, is I think some Christians deny that. Well, there's people that deny everything. Right. I mean, you know, it's all about finding out what is real and what isn't. Well, and as far as that goes, going back to that also, I mean, even according to the laws of Christianity, it's still blood-based and tribute-based. Christianity is heavily based on blood and tribute. Well, of course. Not tribute. The ultimate laws Not tribute. Not tribute. Not tribute. But blood. Well, that's true. That's true. Old Testament. But now it's New Testament. Amen. All that stuff is gone. Speaking of science, I was, in my research of Michael, I was amazed to find out you were born without hip bones. I was born without any hip sockets. I lived that way for a long time. I'm trying to picture it. I can't even picture it. It's very painful. I mean, could you walk or you just were in a wheelchair the whole time? I walked. I mean, but the crevice in my pelvis area was pretty big. Well, if I had a dime for everyone told me that. I mean, it's like... I'm kidding, guys. That's why they call him the God of the comedian. Just imagine the femur being like a pointed tip and digging in bone to bone into your pelvis area. That's amazing. Oh, that's got to be painful. And how long did you live like that? I lived like that all the way up until I was about 19 years old. Wow. I was the first American teenager to have total hip replacements. Wow. So I still have an original hip and I'm so thankful because, you know, without those hips, I would not have a good healthy sex life, I'm telling you. Mm-hmm. And you have a good healthy sex life? I do. I have the best partner. Now, let me ask you because, I mean, you... She totally gets to hear the Gollum voice. I'm sure she does. No, because you've got three sons. I have my three sons. My three sons. Yeah, he's... You're very potent. I am. But let me ask you something now. You were married and you were married and you have a... We heard about your girlfriend who apparently is quite a sex expert. She is a great sex expert. We both are sex experts together. Right. Have you learned... Have she taught you anything? Yeah. There's some things that we trade off on each other all the time. Okay. Well, I'll take your word for that. But I'm the oral master and she says so. That's all there is to it. It's called a sex... That's an amazing compliment. A sexpert. An oral sexpert. But what I was going to ask, in your younger days, because we had... We had a guy in here, Nick Sin, a little person. And he lives in Portland. He owns a strip club. He owns a pizza parlor. He does a mini Marilyn Manson performance. He's great. And we were talking, like, do girls like really seek you out and want to have an experience because you're a little person? Absolutely. And that happened to you too? Absolutely. You know what? I did the mini kiss BS. I'm just going to bring that up. Yeah, no, no. Mini kiss. I was sliding into that. I saw him sliding into that. Seeing for mini kiss. We were at... Brilliant. We were at the racetrack and what's that? South Carolina. What is that place called where they have all the races? The Daytona 500? Oh, my God. One of those, not Daytona, but... Right. But it was so frigging awesome because every time I performed, they had to hire security to grab the women off the fence that were climbing over. Yeah. And I thought, is this real? This just cannot be real. Right. Like the real Paul Stanley couldn't get at the reaction, but you did. No, exactly. And it was fun. We had a lot of fun. I saw him at the palace. Yeah. Mini kiss, yeah. Because I asked him, I said, does it bother you that women just want to have an experience with a little person and they're not specifically... Does it bother Ron Jeremy that women just want to have an experience with him from the waist down? Are you the same way? I'm telling you, the show that Carl saw when I was in Hollywood, there was this couple and they were really cool. He was in the industry, his girlfriend, not quite. So they snuck into the back and there was a party. And the guy says to me, listen, you can have my girlfriend. That's pretty hot too, I'm sure, right? Oh my Lord. Yeah. Everything was there. It was like, oh my God. Yeah. And he goes, he goes, listen, show me, show me the way. But anyways, she was like, lifting her blouse and like, and he says, here, go ahead, touch him. I go, I don't know. And poor Joey from the group was like, you can't do that. You can't do that. And I said, he's the guy who started many kids. Yeah. Why not? Why not? I'm being invited. Okay. And so I never went that far because that would be kind of rude. Were you married at the time? Yes and no. We were separated. So you could have done it more. I could have had fun in a different way. Absolutely. It gets kind of strange. So you're a master. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah, I am. I'm sorry, but it's just my brain immediately went to motorboating because it's just like right there, you know? Thank you. You must be an expert motorboater. It's that passion, you know, that we're getting together. We're so close. I have a friend who's exactly boob height and I assure you, he enjoys my... Is that an invitation? Or Nicole, was that an invitation? I'm okay. All right, okay. But I'd say it's still the picture of my head. But the women love Michael E. Goge, man. They just... They do. It's fun. Did you have to like put like fake chest hair to play Paul Stanley? Or... No, we never went that far with the hair, but what we did do is we wore the tight outfits, the black and... Right. And all the... What do you call it? Parafinello garb. Right. It was cool. The space boots and the whole thing. Everything. It was very cool. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun. I was blown away. Yeah, and you had some unusual things at the California Institute of Abnormal Arts. I was... I mean, just the bands, the performers. What I didn't bring up last time you were on the show, which was a couple years ago, I'm still trying to get that off the site so we can get... Because we had a real in-depth interview, but it was just you and me for an hour and it was something, but Repo, the genetic opera. Yeah. Awesome. You know where that started. Yeah. I'm not shocked. The California Institute of Abnormal Arts. They worked it out there, right? Yeah, they did. And they didn't tell us it had anything to do with Paris Hilton or anybody. Well, I don't think... It didn't have anything to do... I mean, was it... Were they already playing on the movie or it was just a stage play at this time, right? I'm not sure what they did, but they shot a bunch of stuff there and it was a type of thing where we're going to come in and do this little tiny thing and then all of a sudden, like, you know... Well, I think for that particular role, Paris Hilton was a great cast for what that role was supposed to represent societally speaking, so I've never had a problem with it, but I know a lot of people have. But I personally think if you're going to... Have you seen it? Yes, I have, yeah. Don't you understand what they were trying to do? Absolutely. I think it's actually delightfully twisted in the same way as that particular German, per se, to convince her to take on such a cannibalistic role I thought the cast... The fact that there's a scene where Paul Sorvino, Paris Hilton, Sarah Brightman, and Ogre from Skinny Puppy are all singing... Yeah. I mean, that's great. I mean, that's amazing right there. It is. But the fact that on the DVD, there's footage from the CIA, I assume you haven't been paid for that. Well, we got a little something. Right. A little wink. So you had no idea this was going to be a big thing? No, I had no idea, of course. Well, there's a lot of stuff like that. We were a little more... Well, have you seen Boosman's other stuff? Because I also, on the ride over here, I was thinking about the Devil's Carnival seems like right up your alley, too. Well, you know, the House of a Thousand Corpses, the art director came out and hung out at the CIA for about three months before they did that film. That makes a lot of sense. That's probably why it's the only one I like that he's done. I saw a lot of... Well, there's a lot of the yellow and the stripes. The stripes and everything, yeah, yeah. But we've had a lot of just interesting people just stop by, even like Joe D'Alessandro from the Andy Warhol fame. Just all kinds of people. All kinds of people. Elvira. Elvira. I love Elvira. Were you friends with Elvira? Yeah, she came over and did a show at the club and she brought her car and it was really cool. She's so sweet. She's sweet, huh? Oh, she's just a doll. She's adorable, huh? She's a doll. Beautiful when she's in makeup and when she's not in the makeup. Yeah, amen. Amazing. And she looks like she's like 19. I know. It's crazy. Well, I would, maybe 28, but I mean, she looks phenomenal considering she's, what, 60, 61? We don't talk about that. We don't talk about that. She's eternal. We don't age. We don't age. Speaking of women that age, I wanted to wish our former co-host, Josie Cat, a happy birthday. Happy birthday, Josie. She's not quite 61, but I'm sure she'll get there. You'll be as young and perky as your tits. She's gonna kill you. I know. I don't know if she's gonna hear it, but if she does, it'll be hilarious. Happy birthday. Yes. And also, this is a good spot to say, go to darkmarkshow.com. Go to audible.com. You get a free book and a free 30-day trial. And also, go to, go to our Facebook, Tumblr, and Twitter pages tonight because I will have two codes for you. One, for 50% off, adamandeve.com, the number one sex toy company on the internet. Yeah. Learn to be an oral sexpert. Right. Right. Get some dental dams, get whatever. Dental dams, lube, whatever you need. And if, if you're so inclined, adammail.com, the number one gay sex toy company on the internet, also sponsors the show. We're gonna have a link for them too. So, we're gonna have a link Love is love. Love is love. Whatever. No, we, we, we're. And speaking of all this. Substance without judgment. Do you want to talk about it? I was just gonna say, this is actually a great show to announce the fact that my anthology, Some Fucked Up Shit, is now on Nicole6.com. And so, if you like this show, you clearly like Some Fucked Up Shit. Yeah. And, and, and, and hard copies will be available. Paperback. Well, I mean, I mean, actual, actual copies. Yeah, physical copies. You'll have physical copies. physical copies. Yeah. Ain't no Kindle. Right. You can still smack someone with one. You know, it's still the damage. Physical copies. Michael is very, I really, really appreciate this. You gave me, you're a singer as well. Not just in many cases, but for seriously. And this is your CD, Michael, is it entitled? Oh. We're talking about the car. MG Midget for sale. There you go. That's right. And you, I saw on YouTube, you sang a song for Rosie O'Donnell. I did. What happened there? What did she do? What'd she say? Oh my God. She was saying some weird things about little people. She wasn't really getting it right. And then she probably, she went the wrong way on that. She went south on it. Was this like on The View or was this on some show? Her own show. Her own show. Okay. When she had the Rosie O'Donnell show. Yeah. I mean, what did she say? You know, I don't remember exactly what she said. Right. I wouldn't be able to paraphrase it correctly, but it just draw, it kind of drawed us to a point of, you know what? Just leave for a while then come back so you can become a real person. So it was past the point of just ignorance to just blatant, maliciousness. It was. It was pretty sad. Because I don't follow Rosie O'Donnell, so I don't know what she said. Well, I don't follow her at all either. But in this case. But you did a terrific song on YouTube. Thank you. About, you know, everybody accepting everybody. And it's funny because at the time she was, she had her own demons and she was in her own closet. Yes, she was. Yeah. And, you know, it's hard to point fingers at somebody. I'm just saying, you know, just be thankful for who you are and try not to be anybody else. That's basically the whole, the whole idea of the song. And let's be honest, if you're going to point a finger at Rosie O'Donnell, you're probably going to hit her. Yeah. She's a big target, right? She's a big target, yeah. Another thing you were talking about, see, I've been hitting jokes all day. This is the first time that I got right on the spot. That's cool. It's all right. No, no, but I, and Rosie, if you'd like to come on the show and rebut, please, we'd love to have you. I'll sit on your lap, rebut on the show. Yes. That'd be great. Michael will be on the show. He'll sit on your lap. We'll see what happens. He's the, he's the oral meister. Maybe. I was like, my mind immediately went to motorboating. I was going to say, it's okay if you're gay, Rosie, because I love lesbians too. I was going to say motorboating, that's more like a yacht, but you were also talking about. I am a lesbian. What am I saying? I love women. Well, also, and the other thing, I can't, see, I told you, it's with myself fast. I can't leave the show. You were at Eazy-E's funeral. Yes. You knew Eazy-E and Eazy-E's mother. Yes. Eazy's mother babysat your son. My, my friend, Katie, is the mom of Eazy-E and she's a beautiful woman. Mm-hmm. And I, I haven't spoken to her in a while, but I'll tell you, she's a great person and I knew Eazy-E as just simply, Eric. You might be the only one. Eric, pick up your clothes. Eric, this, Eric, that, you know, but he was great. I mean, very creative. So you knew him when he was a kid? We knew him as a younger person. Absolutely. Wow. And, and you said the funeral was so weird because there was just so, there was so many different, Bloods and Crips were there. Bloods and the Crips were there. They were fantastic. They were behaving themselves. You had the, probably East Coast, West Coast rappers were there. They were there. And, and the white, white people were there. What they say is, they say the police department are called the black and the whites. Right. And you had the sheriff's department and they had all kinds of policing outfits there. Right. And it was major because we drove from the A&E church downtown all the way to, Rose Hills. Wow. That's a long distance to bring all those people to a funeral. And have them behave. And have them behave. Although, although, although, although one of them got out of line, you know, you were there, so you could have kept the peace. Yeah. Right. I could have tipped the scale too. You were Gollum too, so. I was gone. I could have handled it. Yeah. You got Gollum voice. The magic me. Watch it, motherfucker. Stop it. Stop it. Yeah, try it. Anyway, now, Carl, you were, let me say, Nicole, Blood Diner classic. Blood Dinner is coming out now? Yeah, we finally, I finally wrote the script, the sequel. Right. 25 years later. Yeah. And you think, you know. Didn't everybody die at the end? Yeah, so. Okay. Movies, you're killing me. I'm just, I'm just joking. I'm just joking. Anything can happen. And I would say that's, people. I mean, I think Sheetar is still alive. Yeah, baby, she owed me $10. Actually, it's going to be set in a county hospital. Yeah. It's going to be so cool. So, I'm looking forward to that. We should be shooting it by the end of the year, so. Right. There's a bunch of stuff going on right now. I'm actually involved in a, developing a TV show called Heaven's Crush. Heaven's Crush? Yeah, it's about real life deliverances, and it's like, not any paranormal show like you've ever seen. Oh, did you see that? Oh, there it went. Oh, it just missed it. The camera's shaking. Yeah, it's not it. It's the real deal, No, no, you are the real deal. You know a lot of, you know a lot of things. I've interviewed a lot of people for it, and it's just, wow, I'm really excited about that. And also, I have a really cool script called Gypsies, which is a horror comedy, and about a bunch of cutthroat gypsies ripping off people in the valley. And this, it's hilarious. I got a couple of names in it, too. Sounds like my life. Yeah, I mean, it's every gypsy trick if you've studied what gypsies do. I mean, I've had my fair share of gypsies, and I'm telling you, it's the weirdest experience. Right. Having them come in, if you're running a rental hall facility, and they make it sound like they're having a banquet for some saint in their church or their religious thought, and they come in, and they decorate it with this beautiful tableware and plates, and then they have to have a gypsy trick in the kitchen so they can cook their fish, and it stinks up the whole place. Sure. And then all of a sudden, at the end, they throw the plates on the floor full of grease. Ooh. They break the glasses and the dishes, but they never return those things, and they have the billing come back at the hall that you're leasing out. Oh, my God. Well, that's a gypsy trick, but it's not what I'm talking about. Right. What are you talking about, Carl? I'm talking about the rip-offs, you know, like fake seances, all the stuff that they normally go through. Psychic surgeries. It's about a little gypsy family in the valley. It starts out in the valley with, you know, the psychic sign, and it's how they just rip off everyone that comes through. There's a lot of psychic signs in the valley. Yeah, amen. And then what happens is there's a curse that comes down on them from the old country, and they have to stop ripping people off to get back to the old country so they can't rip anybody off anymore. Wow. And they got to get there before the curse comes upon them, and it's pretty funny. I mean, like, they have to go through all this crazy stuff, and the grandma starts turning into a goat, and the daughter turns into a moth girl, and there's a huge revolution. Sounds like you were on Charmed. A lot of stuff happened like that. Did you ever watch Charmed? Of course I watched Charmed. Did you recognize him from Charmed? There's a lot of seasons of Charmed. I don't remember. What character did you play on Charmed? I played... I mean, if you give me an episode synopsis, I'll probably remember. It was a Celtic type of a character, and I have to tell you, I was... I was dead most of the show. Come on. But did you motorboat Rose McGowan? Oh, I love Rose McGowan. Oh, my gosh. We hit it off so well because her and Manson, oh, my God. She just loved the idea that I was doing mini-kiss at the time, so that was awesome. Right, right. See? And she's beautiful. Oh, my God. Beautiful. Yeah, and she's so friendly and very knowledgeable. And please, Rose, if you'd like to come on the Dark Morning Show, we'd love to have you. I also think you're very lovely. Yeah, she's cool. She's fun and entertaining. Come on with Rosie O'Donnell. It'll be good. Yeah. What a liar. And real quick, we didn't even get to... If you haven't yet, you need to see, if you can find it, Secret Life of Jeffrey Dahmer. Actually, it's on YouTube now. Oh, okay, good. Somebody posted it. It's really so secret. Secret Life of Jeffrey Dahmer. Well, and just real quick because we've got two minutes, but I was reading that, and I didn't know this, but Kevin Thomas, the LA Times, when he reviewed the other Dahmer movie with Jeremy Renner, he basically said, he pointed out that this movie's not as good as your movie, and that his performance, which was okay, was not as good as yours. I know. I was very flattered by that. Yeah. He gave us good reviews for gross out. Yeah. I met the guy. Yeah, he's a really nice guy, man. Yeah. Very kind, very kind. But I mean... Jeffrey saw my film in prison. I mean, everything that Carl has done, and I can say this from viewing outside looking in, has been pretty darn exciting. I second that. Now, you were saying, Jeffrey Dahmer viewed the movie in prison? Yeah. We did Maury Povich, and I met all the family members, and one of the family members I became friends with, and I had this two-year conversation on the phone with her. Right. Because I could make her laugh, you know, and then basically, she's the only one... You make Nicole laugh too? Because, you know, I talk like a black man sometimes. Hey! And anyway, I could always make her laugh, and so I was making her laugh for two years. Her brother, Carol, the transgender, the transgender, she called me up. She goes, Carl, this is Carol. I said, yeah, what's up? She goes, baby, you got a problem. I said, what? She goes, child's got your picture all over her bedroom. I mean, she went, like, pasted her whole room, and I was like... And then she said, she recorded every single call you ever made. I said, click. But anyway, when I was talking to her, she was the only one who went and visited Jeffrey Dahmer in prison. And she showed him... And by the way, today is Jeffrey Dahmer's birthday. Today is Jeffrey Dahmer's birthday. Somebody pointed that out. Happy birthday, Jeffrey Dahmer. In heaven, amen. Or wherever you ended up. Yeah. But he saw it, and I was like... Yeah, probably not, you know. Did he give it a rave review, or was he like, nah, Jeremy Renner's better? Well, no, he didn't... I'm just kidding. That was after he died, yeah. I'm kidding. He, I said, what happened? He said, she said, the guards showed him the movie, made sure he saw it. And he said, he got really close to the TV and turned around and said, is that the guy that played me? Yeah. And they go, yeah. And he got really close and just stared the whole time. I was like, that's all right. That was it. Oh, my God. He was gonna eat. Oh, my God. And I will tell you... I had a chance to meet him, and I didn't... I don't blame you. Probably wise. I talked to his stepmom, which was very sweet, on the phone. But I'll tell you, I've never... Of all the reviews of that movie, a lot of people, you know, it was a really low-budget movie. Some people criticized the budget. Nobody... Not on... Rotten Tomatoes, not 9 to B. Never have I read somebody didn't like your performance. Some people thought you were a little too beefy for the part. That's the only criticism I've ever seen. No, I appreciate that. It's a pretty performance. Well, I actually wrote the script from the Jeffrey Dahmer interview with police. Right. It's really heinously accurate. Right. And, like, when I saw Jeremy Renner, I was like, wow, I can't wait to see someone else. Somebody else did something. Wow. And then he jumps over a fence at the end, like, what? You know? What? That movie, I didn't think Jeremy Renner... I didn't think Renner was bad, but I just thought that the script was sort of all around the place. Well, apparently, the director, we came out two years before then, and he said a bunch of crap about me. I was like, whatever. Well... And it soured me to Jeremy Renner, but then I saw the Bourne movie that he did. I was like, okay, wow, you got me. It was really good. But anyway, so, please, what's going on at the CIA tonight? Tonight, we have a museum night, and we have some really amazing shows. We have a big freak show on the 29th, man. Midgets, fire, little people. Oh! Did you just say midget? Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Up in the air, a little snobby there. But not short everywhere. No, exactly. So Michael's going to be, you're going to be at the CIA? You're going to be, what's going on with that? We're doing a TV show together. Yeah, we're doing a reality show pilot. And I'm excited about it. I'm going to be like stage managing and talking to people in a derogatory way because they need to get their asses out on the stage right now. Yeah, he's going to be a screaming maniac. I can't wait until my next show on CIA when you scream and yell at me. Michael, how do people get a hold of you? Well, they can go to michaelliegogan.com and harass me that way or go to my Facebook page, Michael Lee Gogan on Facebook or I don't know. And you've been in all sorts of movies. I guarantee you've seen them in something. Fear and Loathing. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Sliders. Sliders. All sorts of stuff. All sorts of good stuff. And please come back again. This was too short. Both of you guys. I want to have you guys back. I was like, why are you doing that on purpose? He wants to hear that on purpose. I like it. I like it. He can't help it. He can't help it. No, yeah. It was such a fidgeted good time. I didn't want to. Oh. It was just so. You're killing me here. I love this beautiful lady next to me here. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, so if Nicole's here, you're here. Yeah, absolutely. Uh-oh. Motorboat accident. It's funny, right? Because we met and all we did was exchange hands. So when you get out and I'm wearing my heels. I'm usually like six foot, right? Right. Mm-hmm. And Carl, how do people get a hold of you? Hey, by my hair. Actually, Facebook CI Abnormal Arts. And I have a number of pages on Facebook. Carl Crew, actor, director. And if you're in L.A., experience the CIA. 1-1-3-3-4 Burbank Boulevard, North Hollywood, California. Come. It's a family atmosphere. Like he's been there a lot. The only reason to go to the Valley. And. Also, go to Nicole6.com. Please, buy my anthology. Go buy my anthology. And if you're local, come to the Rainbow and I will sign it. I want an autographed copy. I'll bet. Well, we'll see if we can arrange that. Everybody have a wonderful. $10. You pay first. You'll pay first. Wonderful, wonderful creepy lady. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay, let's get it at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at at