Hallelujah, in the highest praise, we are praising, praising, praising you. Jesus, the Lord of kings, made Lord of all, Lord of all. I say hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, it's the highest praise, it's the highest praise, it's the highest praise. It's the highest praise. Praise him by Harlan Birch and the Gospel OGs. Welcome to the Qumran Report. May the peace and blessings of the life-giving creative spirit be upon you and upon your family. My name is Melvin Ishmael Johnson, coming at you live from Skid Row Studios. And I'm in the studio with my co-host, Melvin Ishmael. Welcome to the Qumran Report. I'm joined by my co-host, Earlene Anthony. I'll call that number is 1-800-893-9562. Now this week, this special Qumran Report, we will talk about Skid Row and the religious community with Pastor Brian Eklund and some seminary students and other visits to Skid Row Studios. And hopefully a little later on, we're expecting a visit by Ron Smith, who represents the Skid Row community on D-Link, which is a downtown law firm. the Downtown Los Angeles Neighborhood Council. Welcome to the Qumran Report. Thank you. Now, let's go around the table, starting with Pastor Brian, and could you introduce ourselves? Sure. Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here. My name is Pastor Brian Eklund. Actually a retired pastor, but we never quite retire, I guess, after serving 32 years in a small church in South Central L.A. and now working with New City Parish, coordinating programs for folks, immersion programs, Spanish language programs, to help introduce what I like to call the other side of L.A., the places that folks often don't get to see and visit. Wonderful. My name is Daniel Pell. Thank you for having us. I'm originally from Glendale, California, now up in Berkeley, California, studying at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary. Okay. Hi, I'm Nicholas. Nikolai Falinchek. I'm originally from Minnesota, the central part of the state, a small town called Becker. And now I'm in my fourth year at Pacific Lutheran Theological School in a seminary in Berkeley. Okay. And who are you? My name is Young Kim. I was a missionary in Africa, Tanzania, and now I am studying at Harvest Bible University on Pico and Union, and I am serving as a Latino church. And very happy to see all of you. Especially homeless people on ski load. Okay. Hello, my name is Jorge Torres. I'm from Mexico. I work for a language school, and I came here to L.A. to participate in this workshop, Language and Culture, for these people who are attending the seminaries. Okay. Hello, my name is Francisco. I'm from Mexico. I am a teacher from Spanish. I participate in the seminary. Okay. Thank you. And I am a graduate of the University of California, and I am a graduate of the University of California. I am a graduate of the University of California. I am a graduate of the University of California. I am also from Minnesota and studying at PLTS in Berkeley. Hi, my name is Dominique. I am originally from Bismarck, North Dakota, and also now a student at PLTS in Berkeley, and thankful to be here, getting to see this other side of L.A. Hi, my name is Miss Jean. I'm here with the Lighthouse Outreach and USA and International. Okay, thank you very much. Glad to have you here. Now, Pastor Brian, can you tell our listening audience a little about New City Parish and the programs that you developed with the students? Sure. New City Parish was formed in 1992 as a result of the civil unrest that happened in April. A few days later, a group of us pastors got together and said, my, my, what are we going to do? We can't keep working in our churches alone, like the Lone Ranger, you know, anymore. We have to find ways to work together and do more to serve and to help our communities. As a result of that outreach, we've been throughout these now eight parishes spread from Compton to Pico Union through Englewood. We have literally fed, I think, a million people or more, served baskets of food, helped in the training of health promoters and other civic leaders, and as well as provided some economic development. Helping people to move towards the job market. And this particular aspect of our program is really about trying to bring cultures and people together across the various lines that so many times separate us. We ourselves were from African descent churches, African American, Malaysian, African, Latino, and we felt the need to bring our people together so that they were not separate. You know, Martin Luther King Jr. has said that the most segregated hour in America is Sunday morning. And it was really our goal to say, to break that down and say, let's work together. So this program is one aspect of that where we bring folks who are from outside of the city many times and sometimes from right in the city. In a couple of weeks, we have students from UCLA coming in to be a part of this as well. To experience another side of life, our students this time, for instance, are living with Spanish-speaking families and getting to know really the, our community in depth and learning through language, learning the various cultures that are around us. So this is a piece of us doing what Rodney King said in that wonderful statement, why can't we all just get along? Yeah, and I know that was one of the reasons that Jeremy created the studios, you know, to create more programs like this, to make it available for all kind of different kind of community organization, especially religious community organizations. Especially religious organization on how they can utilize this communication system for the downtown Skid Row area and for LA as a whole. So I hope we get a chance to talk about that. Now look, before we get into our discussion about Skid Row and the religious community, I'd like to play a little four-minute clip. It was a little speech, a little talk that I made at USCP Center about solving the homeless problem. And then we're going to come back and discuss it. I'd like to say that I am a veteran. I'm a Vietnam veteran, 1969 to 71. I can't tell you my age. And not only am I a veteran, but I come from a family of veterans. Out of a family of seven males and two females, six of us served in the military. Three in the Army, two in the Air Force, and I served in the Army. And I served in the United States Marine Corps. So this is why this is such an important issue to me. And not only that, since we've been working in the Skid Row area, one of the things that we notice is how many veterans that's living in the streets. See, and we're going to talk about that in a little while when we do our monologue. And so what we try to do with Drama Stage Goon Run, we feel that people talk so much about it, people talk so much about the problems, and everybody knows the problems because it's amplified. You can read it in the paper and all that kind of stuff. What we try to talk about is solutions. Solutions. What is the solutions to the homeless problem? Now here's what we've come up with. Because we talk to other homeless people who have been homeless, homeless veterans, and we want to get their opinions on what do they think it takes to solve a homeless problem. And here's where we're at. I think the first step in solving the homeless problem is make the homeless problem the homeless veteran problem. That's the starting point. By making it the homeless veterans problem, you put it on the shoulders of the United States government who sent all of these young men over to fight in all of these particular wars and things like that, and come back traumatized, etc., like that. So we feel that it is also the duty of the American government to finance the solutions to it. Not just the non-veterans whose land in the street. We feel that the starting point, make the homeless problem the homeless veterans problem. Get the American government to finance some think tanks where you can get some of the best minds in the United States, get them together, make the government pay for it, come up with some solutions, and then spread those solutions out to the rest of the homeless in terms of solving that. Now what can the interfaith community do right now to make a dent in the homeless problem? Number one, I'm going to talk about Los Angeles because Los Angeles is the homeless capital. See, it's the homeless capital of the United States. Not only is this the homeless capital, you probably got more millionaires here in Los Angeles, kind of Los Angeles property than anywhere else in the United States. But you also got the light of people laying down there in the Skid Row area down there. So here's the second part of doing something right now. We feel that the three major religions, the religious institutions, can also work with the city to find out all of these empty properties around here, to either buy these empty properties, rent these empty properties, and start programming what the Prophet Muhammad, what Moses, and what Jesus taught. It's right there in the scripture. You know, they started off, Messiah Jesus, when he announced his Messiahship, it's tied into that in Isaiah on what they were supposed to be doing. You know, working with people coming up out of prison, people in need and all that kind of stuff. And Brother Umar, he mentioned, it's tied into the scripture of Islam, it's also tied into the scripture of the Torah. See, so we feel that if these three major religions buy, rent some of this empty property, start programming, start picking some of the people up that own Skid Row, start bringing them into some of these houses, and at the same time provide support systems for them. Okay. And that's what we want to start our discussion on. We want to start the discussion with the second component of that. We mentioned, that was a talk that was made, must have been over two years ago, when we was pushing for the, for the homeless veteran situation to be put out front. Now it's out front. You know, that's what they're concentrating on. Now we're looking for the second part of that, is the religious community, which we thought was something that could happen immediately in terms of buying or renting up a lot of this empty property around Los Angeles, and begin a program and bring, bring some of these people who have fallen and end up on Skid Row and living in tents back into the community. And that's why I want to get a discussion on your comments on that. How can the religious community impact the homeless situation? Anybody want to pick up on that? This is Brian, Pastor Brian. My first reaction is that every religious institution, every church, every synagogue, every mosque, needs to take it upon themselves to do something, to do something. That would be a start. I mean, I was very impressed some years back in one of our meetings of the compassionate conservative group that was meeting at United University Church with the, when we had a group that, that came and spoke about, you know, that every church could adopt a homeless person. And I remember them saying that the count of homeless at that time, and I think that's a lot of people, I think that's a lot of people, that at that time, and I think it still hovers around, that number is 80,000 people in Los Angeles County. And that, and there are, and guess how many churches and religious institutions we can count, about 80,000, you know. So imagine if every church would take responsibility for just one family. Of course, that doesn't mean new people won't be coming in and we won't continue to have issues, but what a difference that could make by adopting a family. And then what their, their suggestion was literally to have this family take it, take, take the, take the folks in, provide them with housing, do the kind of case management that's needed, help, help them to walk through if they can the job market, be sure that they have the foods and the things to get started until they can get on their, on their feet again. Okay. But if we, but I understand that for some churches, we have a number of very, very small churches in our communities as well, but not everybody could do that. But I still think that every church can do something. Okay. I'm anxious to hear from some of you, I'm anxious to hear from some of the seminary students. If you was pastoring now, if you was pastoring in a congregation, how would you deal with the homeless situation? What kind of program would you set up? Who want to pick up on that? I think what Brian said is really important, that the first step is to take responsibility for our fellow human beings and not putting the problem, problem on someone else, but saying that this is my problem because it's my people. And just starting there and taking ownership and not really seeing it as the homeless problem, but as people's lives that we're talking about and that it's our call as Christians to care for our neighbor and these are our neighbors. And so starting with that and taking responsibility and not saying that it's someone else's problem to deal with, but it's our communal responsibility. Now, there's a portion in the scripture where the Messiah Jesus, I guess he would have to be considered basically homeless, right? Now, anybody else want to comment on if you're pastoring a congregation, how would you impact the homeless? Homeless people come to you, families. How would you deal with that? Anybody else want to pick up on that? Don't everybody speak at once. I think that's a good question. I think there's quite a few ways that churches or religious organizations can help influence this. I think the first step is probably listening to people. I worked in a homeless shelter doing case management for a bit. And we always said homelessness doesn't discriminate. So it happens to all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons. And sometimes people do just need a leg up, a little bit of a push, and then they're like, oh, I'm not interested in being housed. And other times it's what they grew up in and they're really not interested in being housed. So sometimes it's not our problem. It's their way of life. So I think listening and building relationships with people to know what would be helpful. Would just a shelter in the winter so that they can live the way of life that feels comfortable to them be helpful? Or would a family that's willing to take them in but a family and relationships that can help get them on their feet if they want to live housed. And I think of a story of a girl in the homeless shelter. She was maybe 10 who started crying in our after school program because she knew that I was going to be a pastor and wanted me to talk to her grandma about praying out loud instead of silent at night because she thought if her grandma prayed out loud, maybe God wouldn't be mad at them and they wouldn't be homeless. And so I think this is like Maggie just said, people's lives. And so speaking grace to people and speaking gospel to people, telling them that God or whatever it is, whatever you name God is love and that that love is with them, not against them or punishing them. It's not a theological punishment of some kind. Anybody else? Anybody? I think too, I mean, it was said, Pastor Brian was saying, it's kind of our call as people with a religious sort of way of life to take up this problem. And I think it's important to remember that God has already taken up this problem. God has already done so much for us. And so now it's our job to respond to that love and to take up that, I'm speaking with my own vocabulary, take up that cross that God has already bore. God, like you were saying, has lived the homeless life, knows what it feels like. And God has already chosen to tackle that problem. And then we are called to respond to that love, that love that hurt, that love that didn't feel good all the time, that love that exposed God's self to hunger, to the elements, to cold, to broken relationships. We're called to take that up and to experience that ourselves and to know our community. Excuse me. You know, we've been learning Spanish over the last few days and I was surprised. I don't know why, but I was surprised when the English stopped when class began. And it was really hard, but I've kind of been getting the sense visiting Los Angeles that the only way to learn what a language is like or to learn what a community is like is to really just dive in and stop with whatever language, or whatever community you knew before and just get to know the people. I think that's what we're called to do. Mm-hmm. Anybody else want to comment on that? Usually people think homeless need help. So we think we are the keeper and they are the taker or receiver. But personal experience, it is my personal experience. I have a friend, his name is Emmanuel. Five years ago, I met him at school. And he was drinking alcohol and taking drugs and hiding himself at his apartments. So I and the friends visit him and ask him to come to schools. He was up and down, but finally he came out from his hidden place and joined to the schools. And usually he said, I don't have a family. I don't have friends. But I told him, I am your friend. I am your friend. I am your sister in Christ. So we became the family of God and it helps him to restore his dignity. So now he cannot say that he doesn't have anyone. He knows that God loves him and he knows that he has a friend in Christ. And we can help them to share life through Jesus Christ. And it will help them to come back to the Lord and restore to join the communities. Okay. Let me ask this. We had Reverend Cecil Murray in the studio. As a matter of fact, Pastor Brian was here also. And I posed the same question to him. And he said something very interesting. He said that he thought that every church, every religious organization should have a homeless component to the organizational structure. What are your thoughts about that? Well, how small the congregation is, you know, it should have the structure, it should have some kind of programming that deals with the homeless on how to transition them back into the community. What are your thoughts on that? On a church, just say a church that you pastor, how would you develop a homeless component? How would that look like? . I think what that looks like could be very different in each community and in each congregation and in each parish. I think whatever happens needs to come out of that particular community using that community's gifts and reading that community's needs. So what will work and what will be most successful for one congregation or one parish might be very different than what could work in another. But I think it begins with reading both the needs of that community, or the homeless population in that community, and then also reading what the gifts of your particular congregation is. What assets or what talents or what gifts or what can that particular community bring to that situation? Mm-hmm. Now, one thing about up north in California for a number of years, areas like San Francisco, Berkeley, San Jose, they've been light years. I mean, 10, 15 years. I mean, 10, 15 years ahead of what's happening down here in Los Angeles in terms of the homeless, in terms of service providers as a whole. Because I know they still have Glide Memorial up in the San Francisco area. But I know that they had a component to their churches where they would reach out for homeless people. They had relationships with hotels for families and stuff, women that might have two kids or stuff like that. Any more thoughts on the homeless component of these churches and how to develop them? I think one of the first steps for any congregation or a faith-based organization to work towards this goal is to be present in the community. That also entails forming relationships not only with the people, but with the other organizations, the businesses, the homeowners, the people that live in the community. To let people know about the situation that's happening. And if those relationships can get formed, then you can start to create opportunities where it's not just the faith-based organization, but the larger community that can rally around this issue. How you mentioned with hotels and other businesses for things like clothing, food, other such things. So being present in the community and forming those relationships. Okay. I think too, kind of playing off of what everybody else has been saying, that one of the first steps that we need to take as faith-based communities is to name this problem. To not name it and to say that we don't have the resources and so we're not even gonna name it is to deny. One, it's to limit the Holy Spirit and the amount of work that the Holy Spirit can do. It's to limit our own scope of what humanity looks like. And it's to deny part of our own experience because, I mean, most people have experienced hunger at some point in their lives or know someone who has, just ask about those stories. And so I think step one is to name it. And then like Maggie was saying, each community may have a different way to approach the problem. Maybe some communities have space available to house homeless people at night or in the morning. Maybe some communities have a volunteer force that are really passionate about volunteering at different places. Maybe some communities have a lot of financial resources that they can put towards these things. Maybe some people have a lot of nonprofit know-how and can set that up and can get people engaged. And maybe some people have social media know-how. So I think it's really different, but I think step one is naming it. And I think from there, you can kind of gauge where people's passions and interests lie and what the needs of the community are. Great, great answer. Let me ask one more question. Yes. I'm thinking about, you know, the question was what would it look like? And a lot of churches right now are trying to move towards some community organizing models and are doing it based on gifts. And so I think that as churches, we're called to see, for me, Christ in one another, but God in one another, the light of life in one another, a purpose in one another, and to lift up the gifts that we have. And so, you know, if you're told something long enough, you can believe it about yourself. Kind of no matter if it's positive or negative. And so I think being a group of people committed to what is life-giving in the homeless community and naming what their gifts are, they're extremely resilient. They are passionate about one another. I know in San Francisco, the homeless community is a community. They know one another. They travel with one another. Also, this isn't like, these are all really great ideas, but this is real people's lives. And so it doesn't change by having a program. My teaching parish, which is kind of a mini internship, was with a congregation who, the congregation is predominantly homeless. And a lot of them have gotten all kinds of support and resources, but I can't control what they're comfortable with, even though it would make me sleep better at night to know they were housed. And so if being not housed is, is more comfortable because they're not used to the system, then I'm still called to offer all kinds of support and to love them and to have meals with them and to worship with them and to tell them about their gifts. But I'm not called to force them to do what I'm more comfortable with. Isn't it great to hear these young minds who have all this vision and all these ideas? I remember years ago, a cartoon from that old series with Pogo, and he said, I have met the enemy, and they is us. And some of what I'm hearing right here is, I have met the homeless and they are us. But we are, it's not them. It's us. It's about us. And I love what Chip Murray had to say in that interview that you had with him, reminding us and challenging really our congregations. And this is really what it is, consciousness raising. And we have to begin at the beginning. And the beginning, it seems to me, is to help our brothers and sisters in our parishes and our synagogues and our mosques to understand that they is us and that we have a responsibility. And again, we need to do something. Exactly. Especially those who say that they are following the footsteps of the Messiah Jesus, since he quoted what the Messiahship is about when he spoke from the book of Revelation. I'll share a little bit of Isaiah. I just want to say from the Lighthouse Outreach, I think some churches should correlate with organizations. I just remember this last Thanksgiving, one pastor had a feeding and a number of his members showed up, but about three people. So our outreach brought young people together I think churches need to reach out to the youth, let them be connected even if they're not in a church. There is so many youth who are not going to churches, so you have to figure out a way to get them connected. them involved and just being on the streets and acknowledging homeless people just saying hello to them would be a start to Gnett. Okay wonderful let me ask this question and then we take a little quick break maybe we'll do a little community calendar and then come back we're also going to do a little short monologue Earlene's going to do a monologue from Nail Heads but how do you minister what would be your approach to ministering to and you get ready to go down to the Skid Row area which is the homeless capital and you're going to see a lot you're going to see the people that live in the tents and boxes and you're also going to see the people that lives in the shelters the missions and all that kind of stuff and then people that lives in the regular SROs etc like that but how would you what's what's the you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know What would be your approach to ministering to people that live in the tents and the boxes? Would it be the same as those that lives in the shelters, et cetera, like that? What would be your approach? I think for me, one of the things I hold on to is I'm a firm believer that God resides in everybody. And so oftentimes I feel like when we talk about ministering to people or with people or attacking this issue or that issue or tackling this issue or that issue, we're talking about changing those people or changing those policies or changing those people. And I think part of the thing, one of the things we have to bring to ministering to the homeless that we maybe don't do all the time is realizing that we can be changed by that community. It's not like... Like has been said before, us going in and changing them. It's not an us and them thing. It's an everybody. It's a humanity. And it's God residing within humanity. And so if I can't be changed by God residing in that person, how am I going to be changed by God residing in this person or that person closer to me? And so I think one of the things that needs to be central to ministering with the homeless community, because that's what it is. It's a together thing. It's not, you know, they can teach me. They can love me just as much as I can love them. By the help of God. So I think part of the understanding that needs to be... That we need to be empowered to embody is that God resides with everybody and that we can be changed no matter where we go. And that openness to change, I think, is what scares a lot of people. I see. For me, because I've worked with the homeless in Haiti up in Siti Soleil, where people, the majority of the people live in tents and in Africa. And I think there's a different needs for those who are on the streets because some of the issues are different from those who are in shelter, the violence and things like that. So I think we need to be aware of that, being aware of mental illness on the streets and just being there and really observing things. But the mainly showing love is the key. Okay. Wonderful. Okay. Let's take a little quick break for our community calendar. We're going to come back and pick up our discussion. This is... The Community Calendar for Upcoming Events. On Monday, January the 19th, 2015, we're going to have a special Qumran report from 8 p.m. to 9 p.m. We'll be discussing the meaning of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and how he impacted the lives of our special guests that will be on for that evening. We're going to have musician Stephen Fisk, artist Leonardo Nelson Sr., and businessman Russell Brown. Talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you have a community event that you would like announced on our show, send the information to DramaStage1 at Yahoo.com. Attention, Earlene Anthony. The call-in number for our show is 800-893-9562. Now back to our host. Okay, thank you, Ms. Earlene Anthony. Now I want to get back. I want to bring in the aspect that you're dealing with right now. I remember when Reverend Murray was here, and I posed a question. We talked about Biddy Mason, and we talked about how Biddy Mason was fluent in Spanish. And you didn't have the tension that you got now. For example, tension between the Hispanic community and tension between the African-American community. And we looked. We looked at that as a possibility because so many in the African-American community on the West Coast and areas like Arizona and Texas, it didn't take the opportunity to learn Spanish, and there's a communication gap. Can we talk a little about the language that you're learning now, the whole purpose of you learning Spanish? Is that one of the purposes to bridge the gap in the community? Anybody want to pick up on that? I think for me, learning Spanish is a big part of my life. Learning Spanish is just used as a tool for me to connect with people better. Any way that I can interact or build relationships in a better way, I think, will make me a better pastor. And will hopefully build bridges between many different cultures, many different peoples. Okay. Part of the reason that we're here is because we are... We're called to have an immersion experience during seminary. And so we're here to be completely immersed in a culture that isn't what we experience on a regular basis. And so that means their language, their customs, their history. And so the hope that changes you in many, many ways. It pushes you outside of your comfort zone. It helps you know yourself and God and your neighbor better because you see the way those people communicate with one another and with God. Learn about the ways that yourself and your ancestors have interacted. So it changes you in many, many ways. Language being one of the acquired skills that will likely help build bridges. Now, how about the Spanish teacher? Is it a two way learning process? Yes, of course. The model that we apply is the model. That means that we consider the testimonies and their own reality of their students. So at the same time that we are teaching, we are learning from them. So it's the language and the Spanish known only in the surface, isn't the reality. Because we put together the language with all the structure, with the cultures of different people and in a reality. In this case, the reality to be in touch and to be part of the community. So that's why little by little, the students are learning from the very basic skills and to get more advanced. What's really happening. What's happening in this language, in this culture and in this reality. Do they also learn colloquial, you know, just everyday slang? Yes, yes. Little by little, we put some of that in. Anybody else want to comment on that in relation to Spanish? Yes, I'd love to comment on that. Me being a language person and working as an interpreter, a trilingual interpreter, I feel is vital. If you live in California, we're near a border. We need to work together. We need to learn. We need to learn the language. We offer the Lighthouse free language at the Watts Library to the Lighthouse because we want to empower our people to communicate. That's a vital thing here in South Central and in Los Angeles. Okay. Thank you. I was asking Earline, the camera was supposed to be on her, but let me ask this. How can the religious community utilize the new technology? How can the religious community utilize the new technology? How can the religious community utilize the new technology to get their message and teaching to the community? You know, the internet and all that kind of stuff. For example, before television came, most preachers, you know, radio was it, you know, radio sermons and all that kind of stuff. And then television came. You had the television ministry and all that kind of stuff. Now we got technology with the internet, et cetera, like that. How can we? How you utilize that new technology? Can you turn that around? Anybody want to pick up on that? You want to ask again? How can the religious community utilize this new technology to get their message out? I think it's hard because one of the primary functions that a religious community performs is that of establishing and maintaining relationships. And so the challenge becomes. In an era dominated by internet presence. How do you establish and maintain relationships across various schedules, various demands on your time? If you can't make it to church on Sunday, is there a way to connect to your community via the internet or, you know, via telephone or do people still send letters? They still send letters. So, I mean, there are, you could put a sermon up online if you're a pastor, but I'm not sure that really establishes and maintains relationships the way that we're really seeking to. The same way that we were talking before about living in a community. Maybe education is a way, maybe invitations and monitoring events is a way. I mean, it's tough. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Technology was minimum there, but he had a mythology. He used the whole concept of parable that was sort of like a new, he perfected that art form. You know, so imagine how would he utilize technology now? What would Jesus tweet? Exactly. I think technology can be a very good tool for sharing parables, for sharing real life stories that can then broaden our minds to apply to people we encounter. My experience with using Facebook and things like that is that it's a good place to plant seeds and to have seeds planted in me. I see all kinds of stories and quotes and facts on there that give me something to kind of ruminate and think about. And so just like, just like scripture is kind of similar, right? It's not like a tang, it's not a relationship with a person, but it's, it plants a seed for us to think about. And then I think the relationships with people kind of cultivate those, the points in those parables or the prophetic voices in the, in scripture. I would add to, I think it is important that churches and congregations can do outreach and, and make connections through social media. But I think, I think that churches also are in a unique position to give people a break from social media, to create space for people to intentionally put that part of their lives away and just be 100% present with one another and with God. In our lives today, often we don't get a break from technology and social media and the internet and everything like that. And so I think religious communities are in a position to really offer time away from that, that is centered on God, and that is a way to be a part of the community. And so I think that's a really good point. And God does drag us drag us drag us drag us drag us drag us For me, because I'm with a non-church youth, and I think this is vital to use this media. Any way you can get a message across, it's vital. Whether you're texting, whether you're on Facebook, you're putting YouTube videos on, you're doing conference calls, whatever it takes to reach those populations who may not be able to go to church, who may be a single mom, can't leave, or a kid or a person working in a day at night, you need to do whatever it takes to get that message out. Mm-hmm. Anybody else on there? Let me ask you, most communities, especially down here in the downtown area, you have major components. You've got the business component, right? You've got regular. Here we've got the service providers also, the big rescue missions and all that kind of stuff. You've got the activist community. And one of the major problems that you have, and this is a big issue, and I put it at the top of the list in terms of keeping the homeless problem from being solved, is the conflict between the business community, the activist community, and the service providers. Now, how can the religious community, how can you chime in on that to get all of these sectors to work together? Because by being in conflict, it leads to people who are suffering, laying in the streets and all that kind of stuff. Anybody want to comment on that? Maybe by starting to practice what we preach. I think about Pastor Brian has talked about New City Parish and that they originally weren't a group supported economically or even theoretically by the broader church, but they were able to do work because they just started doing work. And so I think the religious communities are in a place, they're in a place to practice what we preach and to start doing work instead of join the conflict and be willing to actually take these homeless people in. It was talked about earlier that what if we actually invited them into our actual homes, not into a program or into a different home, but into our lives. I think that could be a place to start. That's interesting. Let's speak up on that. What are your thoughts on that? If people start to come in? If people start inviting individual homeless persons into, what kind of problems would they run into first of all? Last year I worked at a congregation that recognized a real need in their community to house single women who are unhoused. And so that church opened up their sanctuary doors for women to sleep in the sanctuary, under the altar at night. And one of the problems that we really ran into was a lot of fear from the neighbors in that neighborhood who were really scared of what they didn't know. And so part of our job as a faith community was to educate the neighborhood, to try and dispel some of that fear, and to emphasize again and again that these are real people. They're not scary. They have many different stories, many different backgrounds, and that they are just as deserving of shelter as the neighbors are. And so there are many different problems that you can have when you do open your doors. But we're going to try to do that. But it's what we're called to do. And so I think like what Dominique was saying, we need to just do it. Inviting somebody that you don't know into your home would not be easy. So there would definitely be some bumps in the road. A couple I can think of for sure. Like I said, homelessness doesn't discriminate, but a lot of homeless at least that I've gotten the chance to get to know, do have mental illness, and are not likely going to get on their feet in the same way that those without that struggle would be able to. And so it's going to mean a long-term thing. It's not helping somebody up. It's inviting somebody into your life. And so there's going to be all kinds of cultural things and adjusting, just like with a new roommate, but with one that has a very, very different experience than you. Well, couldn't this be part of that home? Part of that homeless component that we was talking about for every church, where if part of that homeless component is to, what is it called? What's the word I'm looking for when they examine a person, their background and all that kind of stuff? Case study? Yeah, or to look for the person who would not just pull somebody off the street and stick them into a home, but to get some information about them, to see where they can possibly slot them into a congregation or member's house or something like that. That seems like a very realistic option to me, Melvin. And you're absolutely right. I mean, having some kind of screening would be very, very important. Exactly. Because as we know, many of us aren't equipped for some of the issues that folks deal with. Sometimes we can't deal with the issues of our own families because they go beyond our abilities, and we have to get professionals. We have to get professionals to help. But it certainly is possible with a very good screening program that many of the homeless could be helped in the same way that people have foster children. And many of our families are very open to having foster children in a way that would try to help them to move to the next stage of their development. And not for that to be a permanent housing, but for that to be a step along the way. And that would be a very interesting and wise program to explore, it seems to me. Okay. Let's, that's our wind down time, six minutes. Let's do a little short monologue called Auto Heads. This is about an individual living in their car trying to take care of their family. It's from the play Nail Heads that we developed with our group with Pastor Brian. My name is Auto Head, and I'm a nail head. My present home is my automobile, my car. I live inside my car with my daughter. She's 13 years old. And I'm a single mother. And I'm a single mom. I never thought it would be like this. I never thought I would be living in my car. I live in my car, but I'm still homeless. I'm just one step from the shelter, one step from the street. I got a college degree. And I used to work in an office. And I made pretty good money. Enough to make a down payment on a house in a nice neighborhood. A good environment where my little girl could grow up. Then my house got foreclosed. And I had to move into a smaller apartment. And out of nowhere, they downsized and cut my job. And I looked and looked for work before my unemployment ran out. My check ran out last month. And the only work I could find was telemarketing. And it was only part time. I'm trying to hold on, but it's getting hard. I gotta hold on for my little girl. I gotta be strong for her. But for now, my car is my home. I don't want to live in a shelter. I want a place of my own, a place I can call home. It's getting hard out here. There's no telling what's out there waiting for me. I'm trying to hold on, but it's getting hard. My name is Auto Head. I got a little girl. And I live in my car. Okay, that's from the piece Nail Heads, a monologue about living in your car. Let's go around for a little quick comment as we go around and we close off. Well, for one thing, I just wanted to put a plug for my friends that are here with us from Mexico. Mm-hmm. We have a very strong relationship going on with Setlalik, this language school, very progressive school in Cuernavaca, Mexico that goes back 29, 30, 29 years now just about, I guess. And it's just such a pleasure that to have these issues that we talk about, whether it's homelessness or whether it's intercultural understanding, these are global issues now for us to deal with. And to have our friends from even another country to come and be part of the solution. Mm-hmm. I want to take a moment and thank you for inviting us in to talk with you, but also for your work here and not only naming a problem, but to continuously name the problem and keep it in the public's ear. We appreciate it, and it's good work. Thank you. I think, like Daniel was saying, thank you for naming it. And if any of the listeners are wondering how to name it themselves, it would be to have conversations like this. It's hard and it's challenging. But it's a challenge. Thank you. And you may not know all the answers, which is just fine. But there are people out there who know answers. And so I would say have conversations and seek out people to have conversations with. Thank you for inviting us. It's been a great experience because, as I say, we share our knowledge, but at the same time, we're learning from you. So this is very important for us. Especially this relationship with the NCP has been very strong for us because we realize that we have to be able to do this. We realize that there are problems everywhere. We have to work together to look for solutions. I think for me, just part of being a Christian is not losing hope and to believe that partnering with God, that there can be a different future. And so I'll leave with that. Thank you. Thank you for having us. It's these conversations that start the possibility to make change because I also speak only for myself, but I have a feeling I'm not alone. That the things I've said or thought during this conversation weren't at the top of my mind. They happened because of things other people said and the memories they brought to the surface. And so I think these sort of conversations are extremely important in emboldening us to practice what we preach. Just thank you for having us. And those who are listening, let it not be a conversation. Give a smile to a homeless person and think about how you can help or correlate with the church. You want to say something? I just want to thank all of our guests for being here. This is great conversation. And if you're ever in the area again, please give us a call and be our guest on the show again. Thank you. Okay. And I'd like to extend a special thanks to Pastor Brian Eklund and the Seminary. Thank you. And to all the Seminary students and the Spanish teaching for visiting the Qumran Report. And please listen to past shows of the Qumran Report by Googling in Qumran Report. And Qumran was the community of Jesus. It was the home of him where they found the Dead Sea Scrolls at in 1947. So thank you for tuning in to the Qumran Report. And from your host Melvin Ishmael Johnson, co-host Earlene Anthony. And Anthony, may the peace and blessings of the life-giving creative spirit be upon you and upon your family. I leave you with Dr. Martin Luther King talking about righteousness. Somebody make you think that God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment. And it seems that I can hear God saying to America, you are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power. And I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know my name. Be still and know my name. Be still and know that I'm God. The promises of the great society have been shut down on the battlefield of Vietnam. Making the poor, white and negro bear the heaviest burdens both at the front and at home. Though the civil rights leaders for various reasons refuse or can't take a stand or have to go along with the administration, that's their business. That's their business. But I'm afraid that I know that justice is indivisible. Injustice anywhere is the threat to justice everywhere.