Hi, welcome to Anne Exposed Secret. This is Martha Nix-Wade, your host, and I have a special friend with me. This is Grace. Hi, Martha. You know, it's so funny because Grace and I have known each other for a little while, and on Mondays, Grace joins us in our women's support group. And last Monday, we were bringing pictures of us as little girls, and I pull out my picture of my little girl, and I go to introduce myself as probably like two or three, I guess. And I'm on this little tricycle, and Grace goes, oh, my goodness. And she pulls out this picture of herself, and we look like twin little sisters. She's showing me she had her little pigtails. I think you had a little more hair than I did, though. I was a little baldy. We attempted to pigtail. With the same exact, like, both the same red bikes and the brown couch in the background. Yes, we are the same age. But it's just, it's amazing that as we get to know one another, we find more and more similarities. Tonight, it was her talking about her T-bird, and I'm like, wait, I had a T-bird. So we were brought together for a reason, and hopefully you'll see that this evening as we talk about Grace's life and maybe some aspects of my own. And I hope that if you have personally experienced some of the things we're talking about, that you will understand you have a place to turn, and you can always reach out to us. Our website is acorderblue.org, and Acorder Blue represents a quarter of children who will be left blue from the trauma of sexual abuse. However, there is hope. As we educate, that statistic should go down because it's believed that 95% of sexual abuse is preventable through education. And I know that both of our parents were not educated while they were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. They were educated. And we want you to be different and learn from our lives and really look at the vicious cycle of sexual abuse and how it needs to stop. And this is how, by us coming together and sharing our stories. Grace, can you talk about your early childhood and the dynamics of your home and how you grew up? Sure. I grew up with people living in our home that were not part of our immediate family. There were always students living with us and members from our church. And so it was always this extended type family situation with people, sometimes different people coming, moving and living there for a short period of time. And so there was always other people around. And it was, that was just what I knew from very, very little. And how many kids were in your home? There were myself and three of my siblings. And at different times we had families living with us. So there would be those families with their children, but that was occasional and usually temporary. And your church technically wasn't really a church. It functioned like a church. But can you explain the dynamics of... What that institution was like? Well, it was very controlling. And I have a hard time describing it because there was really no freedom there. And so even just talking about it is very scary to say the words out loud. And I think that's what I learned from my parents. And I think that's what I learned from my parents. And I think that's what I learned from my parents. You had to follow such rigid rules of be seen and not heard type of thing as a child. And do what I say, don't do like I do. And sit there on this metal chair for hours and hours and listen, but don't make a sound and don't have to get up. And don't have to be, don't be a kid. Don't be, if you're... I remember my brother. Crying and then getting taken out to get a spank for crying during the meeting. And I'm sure he cried less after being spanked. Yeah. Yeah. And it didn't make sense. The rules were not... It wasn't a place for kids, but yet we were expected to not have any needs and just be there and perform the way they told us to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What are your memories around that time in your life? Pretty foggy. You know, I have a few specific memories of different events, but really there's a lot of just, you know, blank spots. And what was, what are some of those clear memories that you have, such as, you know, sitting on those metal chairs for hours on end? What was some of the abuse that you do remember that took place in this institution that called themselves a church? Well, what I remember from a very early age is I remember that we would come there, come to the building where they had the meetings very early in the morning. And we would be expected to sit there for many hours. And then at lunch, they would split us up into groups and we would go with other children in our age group. And it wasn't to go... You know, play or, you know, have a break and run off some energy so you could, you know, make it through the next session. It was to sit through another lesson. And there was a little bit of activity. And I remember, you know, being squirrely and rambunctious and I have, I just had to sit and I, for hours. And I was, you know, seven and I had energy to burn and we were expected. And I had to, you know, follow more rules, follow more directions. And I needed freedom. I needed a break. And being... Talking back, you know, became one of the ways to exert some control into the situation. And so as a result, I would have, you know, be always having to be with the teacher to manage me. And so as a result, I would have, you know, be always having to be with the teacher to manage me. And control me. And so I remember one time, I don't even remember what I said, or I wouldn't want, I didn't want to line up to go to the group or whatever. And I remember the guy taking me by my arm and said, fine, you don't want to walk over there, then we're going to run. And he was an adult and I was a little kid. And so he ran all the way dragging me by my arm to where we were going for the children's lesson. It was some blocks away. Dragging me. When I tried to get up, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't. So it was basically the message was you will do what you are told or we'll make you, you know. And so were you literally dragged to this location? Literally dragged, you know. And I don't remember my parents ever saying that, what? You dragged my kid? You know, it was like, well, you should have done what you were told, you know. And that was how it was. It was you were, and then you were, the typical thing that happened if you did not do what you were told. You did not follow directions that you were given is then you were shamed in front of the group. And that was really one of the, shame was the major tool of this group to make you conform and do what they wanted. So they would literally bring you in front of the group and shame you. Yeah. And talk about what you did and how you didn't do what you were told and how you were bad and, you know, that you needed to be obedient and. So this was like ritual abuse. Yeah. Yeah. Regular shame sessions in order to get you to, you know, be, you know, fall in line. Be compliant. Be compliant. Exactly. Do you remember having any, I mean, you talk about talking back and trying to stand your ground. Did that constantly keep going in your home and that you trying to assert yourself? Yes, continually. That happened very regularly. So there was a lot of conflict. And really the only ways to assert yourself were to be defiant. I mean, to say, you know, be asked to do something or told to do something and say no. And there weren't, there weren't really any other way. There wasn't really any other way to have a self that wasn't manipulated from the outside by someone else. Did you hit a point where you were like, oh, I'm not going to do this. Yeah. Yeah. I think when I became, started becoming a teenager, I started getting more vocal and standing up more, especially to any physical control of my person that I started to fight back. And so the shame and the intimidation. And the ridicule, public humiliation that would happen, that got stepped up in accordance. And the pressure on my parents to make me conform, they also, that was then also applied to them as well. And did you stay in your home until you were 18 or did you escape this controlling situation earlier? Yes, I started running away. And I guess I had reached a point where I had had enough and I was about 16. And I started getting in physical confrontations with my dad. And I rejected spankings and as they were called and started pushing back physically, pushing them away from me. And I asked them to do me a favor. accepted in that environment. It was, you were supposed to be, to control the people in your family by whatever means were necessary. And, you know, we were supposed to look and act a certain way. Did this happen to other members of your family or was it targeted solely towards you? No, I believe that it happened to, I'm aware that it happened to my sisters as well, to some degree. I'm not sure how extensive it was as we got older. You know, you, and you're out in school and, you know, in different environments, then talking about those things, like it became, you started to become more aware that other people weren't going, weren't having, weren't having, weren't having, weren't having, weren't having life the way you were. So you started to realize that it, this wasn't how everybody lived. And so I didn't want to live that way anymore. And so I started saying no. And then I started really running away and trying to stay away from my home. Where did you go? I stayed with friends from school and I would sleep on their floors and I would do their dishes and clean their bathrooms and do their laundry. And clip their grandparents' toenails or whatever I could do, you know, to be allowed to stay because I had nowhere to go. I mean, I had the clothes on my back. At one point I didn't even have shoes. I was borrowing my friend's shoes and clothes and underwear. I had nothing. I only had the shirt and the skirt I had on when I left. And my parents would find me because I would continue to go to school. I'm not sure why. That I would go to school and so eventually they would find me and bring me home. And then it would go for a short period and then it would happen again. And finally, I guess that the conflict had really escalated so much with broken windows and cuts and I did, the police were called and I went to Juvenile Hall at one point, point. And I think that my, I thought when that happened, that then I would finally be released from that, that they would come, the police would come and they would see. And that didn't happen. I was taken away. And I think that was really the turning point for me that no one was ever going to stand up for me. And I just, I had to get away. And so I'm not sure what changed after that. I remember being at home a little while longer and the conflict and the physical confrontations and the screaming and yelling and that finally my parents, I guess, decided to let go. And I was basically excommunicated from my church and my family. And they were not allowed to contact me. And I went and I lived with my aunt and uncle. Did any teacher ever see what was going on and reach out to help you? Looking back, I can see three teachers that tried to help me by talking to me one-on-one about, but it was really only in an academic way and focusing on an academic way. Like, I know you can do this and I believe in your ability to, you know, write and you're creative. And they would speak into me in that way. And, and I don't believe that anyone ever saw the physical abuse or the other abuse that happened. Did you ever write about it in any of these creating, creative writing assignments? No, I wrote about it twice while I was still at home. And one was, I wrote in a journal and I didn't write truthfully what had happened to me. And then actually at that point, it was me trying to escape. I had started drinking and smoking pot and things to try to cope with what was going on. And so I was writing about a party that I went to and I wrote that, I had sex at that party. And in reality, I was date raped at that party. And my parents did read that and they'd never asked me anything about that or if I was okay, or, you know, do you know anything about, you know, birth? They never said a word. They just, if it was, I didn't believe it was possible, but things just got even more controlled and there was even less. And I still remember thinking to myself, I still remember thinking to myself, That was at 16. And that's when the running away really stepped up and I was desperately trying to escape. So what would you have appreciated a teacher to have done or noticed? What were they missing as you sat in their class? Because you went back there in the midst of all this. What were they missing that was possibly quite obvious? That my behavior was to label everything under defiance and respect, lack of respect was so not true. No one was respecting me as a person. So I didn't have any respect to give. And all I knew is that if you didn't, if you gave in, then you would be controlled and manipulated. And in my case, that usually meant that you would be physically controlled as well. And so I think that looking to see what was behind the defiance and then at some point the sullenness, like I was good at reading and writing and certain things, then why did I start to struggle? I think that, I think it's pretty evident with kids when they become withdrawn or become overly, like become, if they weren't and they became the class clown or, you know, were all of a sudden exhibiting just behaviors that they hadn't had before. I think my teachers really missed that. Did you share with any of your friends what was happening? Were they asking why you were running away? Yes. And, you know, I believe that a handful of people knew that what was going on at our home. And I don't think that any of my friends knew what to do about it. And they, I think that one or two of them might have told their parents. And I don't think that anyone was willing to take it on. And that's a cry out to you as you're listening. If you know a child who is being hurt physically, emotionally, sexually, or even an adult, it is your responsibility as a human, truly, to call the authorities. And if it's a child, it could be Child Protective Services in your area or the local police department. And at least let them know what you know and allow them to do the investigation and investigate. And if they have any legal ability to step in and rescue this child, this adult, because not always do we have, maybe people are thinking, oh, the teachers, I'm sure they're going to report it. That's their job. They're mandated reporters. You know what? I believe it's all of our jobs. It's all of our jobs to have listening ears and slow ourselves down to look into people's eyes, truly know them and listen. And if they are unable to have a voice for themselves, you can be that voice for them. And then you can walk alongside of them. I mean, let's change it up and say, one of your friends said, we need to go to the school counselor. I'll go with you. It's possible you would have gone. And then maybe you said, no, I don't want to, it'll get worse for me if you say anything. But then that person can say in their own heart, I'm going to at least go try and let that counselor know and let them know that I'm going to go with you. And then you can walk alongside of them. Get guidance from a professional and be a voice for your friend, your family member that for some reason at that moment feels voiceless, even though you were feeling like you're being so defiant in a manner where somebody had to hear you. Did you hear, did you think that people must have just seen it and that they'd come and rescue you? I mean, you said when you were put in juvie, you thought that was finally it. Yeah. Yeah. That was really, a stunner to me because I can, you know, looking back now at myself as a teenager, I mean, I learned from an early age that telling my teachers to F off was going to get a reaction, but I was desperate for attention and desperate to have some control in my life. And that, that stayed true to the end. And so I can see, you know, I don't want my kids saying that to me. And my parents didn't like it when I said it to them. And so I usually paid a price when I chose to do that, which was about a pretty regular basis. You know, I was using the few tools that I had, you know, and, and looking at it as that whole, the conflict that, that people say, you know, teenagers go through this and it's just, you know, kind of like anti-parent, but it was, it was so much more than that. And thinking that somebody would see, there's a reason I'm running away with my, with blood on my wrists and barefoot in the, in late at night, running down the road, you know, why does my parent need to physically restrain me? Don't they ask why? it just, and really it was just said that I was, when it was out of control, nobody said, why is she out of control? They just saw you as a black sheep. They just saw me as the black sheep. And that, that was the easy thing to do, I think. And, um, they just wanted the, I guess at that point, it was just that there was the easy out was just take me to Julie. Was the date rape the first time you believe you had sexual trauma? No. Um, at the time I didn't have, um, any memories. However, I did crave, um, attention and I had learned that, you know, to seek male attention in a sexual way. Um, so I wasn't, I think subconsciously, I know subconsciously I was seeking that attention. I didn't know why at the time. Do you have any idea when that started when you started craving that sexual attention from men? Very young, very, very young. Um, probably four, five. But you have no conscious memory of sexual abuse. No, I have, I have fuzzy memories, you know, a color of a room, um, sometimes a, um, of a window. Um, and yet in my body I have, um, the memory of something, you know, like I, I know something happened to me physically because, um, as I aged, my reactions to things were so much, um, larger than what would be called for in that circumstance. Um, which is very common. I mean, it's very common for our minds not to have the memory, but our bodies to remember the trauma that we endured. I know that's exactly what, what I went through. And when my abuse became public, um, I felt kind of stupid because all my, my head remembered were wet kisses, but my body remembered so much more. And I understood over time that it wasn't necessarily kiss that left me wet. But as a child, what I remembered was being moist and not having a clue what that moistness was. But now through a lot of therapy, um, I understand it a lot better because I logged it as a child did and our bodies may remember things that our brains are unable, to remember. And maybe in time it'll be revealed. But that is one of the points we truly want to make being together because that's a similar experience for us that you do not need to feel odd. If you feel something in your heart happened that was related to sexual abuse because of a physical response you have when someone approaches you sexually, um, that your body, um, shows that memory and in time, maybe you'll have the cognitive memory of that specific trauma. But for right now, it's okay not to remember. Do you feel a freedom and knowing that it's not your time to remember the exact details of your sexual abuse? Yes, I, I have come to an acceptance of that. And because bits and pieces have come over time and through, um, therapy and different support groups, um, I have been heard and been seen and been accepted. Um, and I've learned how to, um, reconnect with my body and listen and be kind of tuned into myself. Um, I can, um, I can, um, I can accept me for me where I'm at. And that, that did take time. Was there a specific moment in time that was kind of that aha of I'm okay with me right now, even though I don't remember, was there a moment or two in those processes of group therapy or individual therapy that brought you to that moment? Yes. Um, I remember working with a counselor. And being very frustrated because I was having so many triggers, you know, sensations or, um, things that would make me, um, hyperventilate or, um, have chest pains or, um, irrational fear that, that weren't make, like I couldn't figure out why. And then coming to see, um, in my mind, being able to go back and then this, on this one particular, um, session with my counselor, finding a picture in my mind of myself as a little, little girl, like looking down on myself. Um, that moment when I found that, that kind of gave me something to hold onto. Like there I was, I found me. And ever since then, even though I don't have very much specific memory, I've been able to, um, to the sexual traumas. Um, I found looking down at my, like I know where I am and I have been able to, um, move forward knowing that I found me. Um, so the, the actual memory wasn't necessary. And that in group, we're talking about it right now. And is that looking at that little girl and pouring into her, like we should have been poured into and caring for her. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and saying now to that little girl that still is a part of us. That's a real part of us of how we love and treasure her for how she was courageous to survive and she made it out and what an amazing person she is. And wow, that makes me amazing too, because that's me and caring for her and building her up. Therefore we're building up our inner child who builds us up as an adult. That's actually what we're working on tomorrow. Um, and we started on last week. Um, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And boy, grab that picture and speak truth of hope into that picture and affirmation and build up that child within you. So therefore you're being built up. It breaks my heart when I hear a victim of sexual abuse as an adult say, how much they hate that little girl or little boy and why were they so weak? And, oh, it just crushes me because that puts the burden on them and it's not their burden to bear at all. They did nothing wrong. You didn't deserve what you were receiving in your home and in the place that they called church. You did not deserve that. But I'm sure that lie planted itself in you. Did you feel for a long time in your life that you deserved those acts of abuse? Yes. I internalized very on that. If I could just change me, there must be something wrong with me that if I could just do it better, you know, if I could just follow along, you know, if I could just do what I was told, if I could just get it right, then, you know, then it would be okay. And it never was. And, and so I really thought the problem was me. I believe that I was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who was the one who I was. Something was wrong with me. So you felt your whole life that you weren't good enough. That I was not, I was broken and that I couldn't be fixed and that I would never reach the requirements. I would never be good, be good enough, be worthy. And what a horrible message to send to your child. And I'm so thankful that you're, taking the time to care for yourself and erase those lies and to plant new truths. What do you think is the top or the top two messages of truth you speak to yourself now that are helping grow you into the woman you are now? Hope is definitely the big one. And I was very fortunate to have a counselor who, when I didn't have any hope, said to me, that's okay. I'll hold that for you. And because of that, I was able to work on the truth that I was able to tell myself. And I think that's the top one. Those lies that I was carrying inside. And then when I started to get them out, then I finally had room for truth, which was that I was valuable. And those two that I was, I as a person was valuable. I had value and I mattered. And I belonged in this world and was made for love and was lovable and had love to give. Freely, with no expectation or performance or anything attached to that. Then things really started to change for me. But I had to get out some of those lies to make room for that healing and those truths to take hold. That's a beautiful word picture. Um, I just see maybe a closet where we're filling it with lies and darkness, but we have to clean out the closet to make room for truth and hope and light. And if you have put yourself in that place where you're cornered and surrounded by lies and darkness, it's spring cleaning time. So get out those lies, burn them in your fireplace, go to the beach and in the pit and burn them, tear them up, get rid of those lies and make room to speak hope and truth into yourself. And I think that's the top one. I mean, Grace is a perfect example of that. And it takes time. Can you talk to us about the process of finding a counselor that's a good fit for you? Sure. I have seen many counselors from the school counselor in high school to counselors provided through the college system and into groups that offer counseling for victims of sexual crimes. There's many different avenues out there to the counselors that are provided by insurance through your insurance carrier, insurance carrier. And really finding a counselor requires something that's really difficult to do. And that's to trust. You have to be willing to put the truth out there and have probably two or three sessions where you talk about some things. And then you will know if you will have be able to develop a rapport with the person or be able to develop a trust. But you have to trust yourself to speak for yourself in the beginning to say, this is what I'm dealing with. And I want help in this area. If you don't put it out there, then they won't know. And you can spend a lot of time and a lot of money and get nowhere. So being willing to put it out there is first. And then looking and seeing what avenues do you have to counseling? Ask at church, ask at school, ask at... There was more than I thought available. Even at the times when I wasn't ready for it. There were some counselors out there. And now, I needed to find someone that had some experience with the events that had happened in my life, that they could understand some of those patterns that had been developed to help me unlock them in order to let them go. It's a very unique niche for a counselor to understand sexual abuse. And it's not always easy to find it. always easy to find a counselor. But you're not a failure if you don't feel that that's a good fit. I like to liken it to a marital relationship. You date, you court for a little bit to figure out, oh, maybe there's a possibility of a future. And then once you feel there's not a possibility of future, you break up. And I know in high school people thought I was nuts because I'm like, well, I don't want to marry the guy. And they're like, you're in high school. But why waste his time? It's the same with a counselor. Like you said, two or three times. And if there's just not a sense of peace and the ability for openness, you can say, thank you for your time. I think I'm going to try someone else. And that doesn't reflect poorly upon you. Yeah, and it's great to ask questions. I mean, they're professional and they're providing you a professional service. And so you want to ask questions about what your training is. And there's a difference between having done a seminar on sexual abuse and having, you know, led support groups and group therapy for victims of sexual abuse. Or having had that experience themselves. Because there's a lot of requirements to becoming a therapist. That doesn't always mean that your area is an area that they are really comfortable with. Or have a lot of experience in. So sometimes you may work with somebody for a certain period of time and get to a certain point and then need to move on. And that's okay too. Absolutely. And you need to be sensitive to that in you and have that willingness to go through that process. When did you realize that you wanted to stop the cycle of sexual abuse in your life? When when when when when when when when I'm a I'm a I'm a! When I became a mom. Actually before I became a mom. I started to realize when I was pregnant with my first child that things were very different than I had thought they were. That I was feeling things in my body that I had never before felt in my life. And that really threw me because what I had based all of my perceptions and my beliefs on was now different. And I had become very separated from my body. So being pregnant kind of reattached me to myself in a very physical way. You know you had to let me explain that a little better that I had had to disconnect from myself physically in order to get through all of those physical events that happened to me. But then as being physically in this state, in a pregnancy, when these things are happening inside of you and there isn't any abuse going on, I was able to start being present in my body again. And experience what it was going through. And that helped me to you know get to that point. And what you're talking about is a lot of times when we've experienced sexual abuse, we dissociate so as not to have to be there. And it's like being... Exactly. Having an out of body experience. And also you have control issues, but when you're pregnant, you ain't in control. Right. And so you have to come to a place of being okay with who you are in your body and finding peace in the lack of control. And so it does. It almost forces you into reconnecting. Then were you able to stop this cycle in your family? Or what are you doing now to stop that cycle that you know has just... It established itself in your life? Well, sadly, the cycle, the things that I thought I was doing to protect my children from sexual abuse didn't. You know, I think that trying to overprotect them you know, you're not there every second of every single day. They have to go to school or they want to play at a friend's house or they want to spend the night at grandma's house. I mean, and so you... I can't be with them physically next to them 24-7. And so when I found... When I, you know, found that one of my children had a sexual abuse, I was like, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. And so when my children had... Had some sexual abuse happened to them, I was devastated. And how I stopped that cycle was I told, you know, what I wasn't able to do for myself when I was a child as an adult for my son. It wasn't hidden. It wasn't covered up. It was... There's something going on and we need to figure out what it is. I looked at the behavior that was happening and said something's not right. And how are we going to go about finding out what's wrong and make it right? And that's still in process now. But it's amazing how your whole family is treating this much differently than how you were taught and treated. And I'm so excited you are being truthful. You are seeking help as parents, as children, as a family. And I'm amazed at the process and the growth. And I know that because you're being real and because you're being open with conversations and getting each of you the help, you're an amazing place. And I liken it also to when someone has, a childhood disease, maybe a heart defect or possibly diabetes, you know that you're going to have to do life care. And experiencing sexual abuse is very similar. That you don't have to live at the doctor's office. You don't have to live at a therapist. But you need to keep their number in your Rolodex. And know that at some point in life, you might need to call in and sit down and talk about maybe a trigger you had, or an incident. But you're doing that as in a family. And that each of you know that at some point, you can always call back in if you have a hiatus for 10 years. But there's still a counselor closer. There's an organization such as ourselves at A Quarter Blue that will be there. And there's an amazing healing going on in your family. Can you feel that and sense that? Yes, definitely. Definitely. And I'm able to connect with my husband so much more than I was able to before. I mean, really, we were disconnecting. And saying, speaking it out, putting it out into the light and saying, you know, this is a thing and we're going to deal with this. We're not going to be ashamed of it or try to hide it or cover it up or make it go away or just pretend it doesn't exist. But doing that really, helped us to be able to, you know, move forward and have the relationship. And I find that I'm now more able to have those things in other areas of my life. It really has that ripple effect. You know, as we say, this is who we are and this is what we're going through. Then we come in contact with other people. And then we, they say, oh, you know, I have that too. And we support each other. And that is huge to not letting something that happens take over your life. But then you really have freedom in your life to be who you were intended to be. And then these things that happen to us, they are not us. And we get to become who we are meant to be and live life fully and have joy and happiness and relationships. If you could give victims of sexual abuse a couple words of advice, what would they be if they're hurting right now like you were when you felt alone? What would be the words that you'd want to share with them? I would want to tell them that they matter so much. I know that the messages that they have received say, you're nothing, you don't matter. But I know that that's a lie. And I would want, I really would want to tell them that you belong, you matter, you're valuable. And reach out to somebody and keep reaching out until somebody reaches back with that hand that says, I can help you. But reach out and try and say, I need help with this. And somebody will respond. And that first step is the hardest one. And it's the most rewarding. And what would you cry out to parents? Parents, spend time with your kids. Life is so busy and has such a fast pace with all of the things we have to do with work and school and sports and just the everyday things that make up life. Take the time daily to stop and look in your children's eyes. Tell them that you love them and take five minutes and listen to them. And what would be two points that you'd want to tell people about stopping the cycle, the vicious cycle of sexual abuse? I think two points for stopping the cycle are, I don't know why I'm freezing on this one. I'm like, choke. Sorry. I didn't give her the questions beforehand. Now you know. I think that that's actually, it's kind of funny because I think that's actually probably your first response is choke. Like listen to your gut as a parent. Here's the first one. Listen to your gut. Listen to your gut. Listen to your gut. Listen to your gut. Listen to your gut. We're so busy that it's easy to miss signs of things that are out of the norm. Certain behaviors that are happening, like what was called for me defiance and disrespect. I mean, take the time to stop and look at those things. And if something in your gut is saying, what this something's off, trust that and look into it. Because we have, I think, a sense, especially if it has happened to you, that you recognize these things, even if it's subconsciously. So, but it requires taking the time to stop and acknowledge it and look into it. And if someone's in an organized church, I hate to call it church, but okay. Maybe that's what it is. And there's ritualistic abuse or some other type of abuse. What should they do? What should they do? What should they do? Well, if you're in any environment where you're like going there regularly, whether it's like to a church for their church services or studies or things, or you're going to coaching or whatever the thing is that you're doing regularly, as a parent, you need to meet the people and get to know them. And don't just assume that safety is a given. I think we're all in this together. I think really as parents, you have to get involved and know where and who and what to the best of your ability. And then you have to talk to your kids. You really, you have to talk. And as a parent, if you reach out for help with this issue and you don't get response from say clergy or board of directors or- The leadership. The leadership of whatever group you're reaching out to, then that's a sign to move away from that group. That's a very clear sign that you need to move out from that group and seek help somewhere else. Absolutely, because the police will help if there is abuse. You're not bound with silence. Right. And if it is a healthy institution, they're not going to fear you speaking out about what's going on, quote unquote, behind bars, behind bars. There's no fear. There's no fear. There's no fear. behind closed doors should be celebrated. Right. And anytime there's this anxiety about what's going on, something's not right. Exactly. And we're talking about behind closed doors. So I want to give you a little information about what's around the corner. March 13th at the Whittier Art Gallery, we have an art exhibit called Behind Closed Doors. And we are highlighting art of different artists and also the art that's been created in our art therapy sessions. Can you share just a quick glimpse of the experience you've had in art therapy? It's been really amazing. I feel so fortunate to have been able to participate in this because it has been so healing for myself and my son and our family. And the Behind Closed Doors has been so exciting. And... enlightening as far as getting to put what's going on on the inside to have a way to express it, a place to get it out that's safe. And getting to work with these doors that we've been putting paint and hardware on, it has just been so validating and freeing as we have this expression. And I'm so excited for... the doors that the children have worked on and the doors that the parents have worked on to become part of this exhibit. And really just another... a symbol of hope and of the freedom that's possible. And we're still in process of finding all the locations for this exhibit. There are three parts that we hope to be able to have in different counties. Actually, our ultimate goal is to carry it... from coast to coast. And it's VIP, Visual Installation and Performing Arts, where there will be visual arts of more traditional pieces. You know, on canvas, we have some pieces on wood that some deconstruction art, but that you can hang in a gallery. And then we have the installation art, which are the doors, where we have over 20 doors. They're created by... most of them are victims and their families. And... but then we have others, who have loved ones, who have experienced this abuse, and... or other professionals who have worked very closely with the trauma of sexual abuse and want to be the voice for those who don't have a voice. And so it'll be an installation art in open air, on corners, in front of City Hall at Whittier in April. And then the performing arts are people sharing their hearts from a performance aspect. And the overall theme of the VIP event is Breakthrough Break Free. And so there's still time to submit artwork pieces for that. So contact us at info at acorderblue.org if you'd like to participate or you want more information about where our shows are going to be or you know the perfect location and you want to open a door, no pun intended, for these art exhibits. Or also if you want to open doors for education for prevention. Granted, we want people to tune in and listen to these podcasts. Each one is so informative and eye-opening. At the same time, they might not be able to sit down and listen. But if you can schedule an hour or two-hour seminar in your schools, in your churches, or in your communities, they can become educated and better protect their children and allow people in their community to know that they are not alone. And Grace can tell you, is it important to feel you're not alone? It's really crucial. I mean, that's the main component, I would say, that when you reach out, you're no longer alone. And you've been alone in it for so long. Even when you're in a room full of people or with your family, you still, you feel so isolated. And that has been the biggest gift is that you become a part of a community of people who are being real and learning how to do life together. And you're not alone. And that's... That is really invaluable. And I'm so thankful you're a part of A Quarter Blue and that I am able to see the growth in you, in your family. What a blessing. If you need help, please reach out, like I said, to acquarterblue.org. Also, you can like us on Facebook. We have various sites. One is Anne Exposed Secret, Stopping Childhood Sexual Abuse, and A Quarter Blue. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you've... You've been touched and enlightened and you are more hopeful today for spending this time with us. May you see beauty come out of the ashes that seemed like they were life, but life is waiting to happen and grow in you. Have a great week. And it turns to pain As we awake to what remains And sift through the ashes That are left behind But buried deep beneath All our broken dreams We have this hope Out of these ashes We have this hope