Interview with Chris Cahill of Psychic Every Day

Hello and welcome to the Life of an Entrepreneur. I'm Jan McCarthy with Entrepreneurial Voice and we are broadcasting live from skidrowstudios.com, real radio on the internet and we're here every Tuesday at 11 a.m. Pacific Standard Time and we'd love to hear from you. We would love to hear from you if you want to give us a call and talk to me or my guest who I'll introduce to you in just a moment. The number is 1-800-893-9562 and we're here to talk about what it's like in the life of an entrepreneur and to share business tips and how people got started and all of those kind of things. So we'll hear from you and today I am interviewing. I'm joined by my guest today, Chris Cahill of Psychic Every Day and welcome Chris. Why thank you. Thank you Jan. It's so nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me. So you're a veteran here because you have your own radio show as well but it's very exciting to interview you because you're also an entrepreneur and so why don't you tell us a little bit, Psychic Every Day, that sounds exciting, that sounds wonderful. Tell us who you are and what it is that you actually do. All right, great. I have a... Well, my company, Psychic Every Day or it's just kind of like how I do business as is really me being a psychic. I'm a professional full-time clairvoyant. I'm a psychic teacher. I'm a healer. I'm a writer. I have a radio show. I have, gosh, a blog, a website. You know, I'm writing books. It just keeps spreading. It's really fun. I teach classes and meditation and I teach people how to work with energy and how to heal themselves. And I've been doing this kind of... I've been doing this kind of work for about 14 years but when I moved to Los Angeles seven years ago, I started looking at how do I create this business out here? How do I set it up? So it really is officially 2010, I decided I needed to full-time go into this. And before then, I'd been both doing my art and doing... I'm a painter and doing my giving readings but I hadn't fully jumped in and committed kind of like what we were talking about earlier with like if you're going to change your hair color, like you got to commit. And that was it. I needed to commit. And as soon as I committed to it and said, that's it, I'm putting all of my eggs in this basket. This is where I want to create a career, where I want to create a business. Boom, things started rolling. So let's back up. Let's back up way, way, way back to like when you were a little girl. And so what were you thinking when I grow up, I'm going to be... A fashion designer. And I was one for a while. I had my own fashion company in my... Right after I graduated from art school. I graduated from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago in 1982. And I studied fashion and fabric design and sculpture, soft sculpture and everything with textiles and dyeing fabrics. And I was just, I love that stuff. I mean, I'd go back and do that again in a heartbeat, but not as a business. That's fun. But I did it for years and costume design. I designed dance costumes. I did theater. I worked with a company or a place in Chicago called the Annoyance Theater, a theater company. Which is wonderful, very big company and they're wonderful. I love them. So I did tons of clothing. I had reps all over the country. I had, you know, for my... I had a kid's line of accessories I designed called Confetti Kids. Oh, fun. That was really fun. So I did that for years, but I never made a lot of money at it, but it worked my butt off and I learned a lot. It was a great thing to do and I was very happy to be self-employed. So you always sort of had this purpose and thinking that this is... This is what I'm going to do. You went to school for it. You really had a direction. And were you working for others or it became your own company? Did you start out working for others or... Yes. Or did you just start out immediately saying, I got it. No, I started working for others. I learned, I worked for Chicago City Ballet for a little while. I built costumes. I learned how to do certain things, get the technical stuff. And then also the business end. I used to... When I was in my 20s, all through... You know, art... I was in my 20s. I was in my 20s. I was in my 20s. I was in my 20s. I was in my 20s. I was in my 20s. I was in my 20s. All through art school and also after I got out, I worked with all these other artists who... What we would do was we would create shows. Many of us were fashion designers, but some were accessory designers, some were other things. We would have... We would like go rent a space and we would set up our own craft and art shows. Oh. This is before people were... Very innovative. Yeah. We were doing this. We would send out... And this is before email. We would get postcards printed and put labels on them and stamps. And put them in the mail. We would buy advertising. We would put up... You know, we'd go around and flyer. And we'd have our people, you know, our mailing list. So much easier now with email. Okay. So for those who may not actually be viewing this show, Chris is actually still quite young. So anyway, it's... She's... I was 10 years old at the time. That's right. So you had... It still allowed you to be very innovative. And you... You said eventually I want to go out and do this on my own. And you did. And you created the Confetti Kids and things like that. So I think one of the things that I really recommend is that you don't have to... You get a lot of information by, you know, just training and learning. Having someone else pay you. Yes. To learn. So there's nothing wrong with going ahead and jumping out there and doing it on your own. And there'll still be plenty of lessons for you to learn. But it's kind of short... It's a shortcut. If you can actually find someone where you can kind of hone your skills and learn the trade specifically as well. So that's really helpful that you did that. Now... I didn't have the confidence yet either. I mean, I needed to know that I did know what I was doing. That was part of it. I was building confidence. Right. Like how do I get reps and how do I... Yeah. How do I actually get contracts and have people hire me and give me money. Yeah, or buy my stuff. And buy my stuff. How do I get people to buy my stuff? Right. Exactly. So... But apparently... Obviously, you have gifts. And you're using all of those gifts in the business that you have today. And I do want to kind of go on a journey of how you went from being a fashion designer to where you are today. But going back again when you were young, knowing that you wanted to be a fashion designer or thinking that that's what you wanted to do when you grew up. You also obviously had the gifts that you have now of being able to, I assume, put yourself in a meditative... Yeah. ...upstate and recognizing that you had these psychic abilities and to be able to read people. When did you first discover that? Actually, I didn't have a conscious awareness of it when I was a young adult. You know, when I was in my 20s and 30s, it really wasn't until I hit my 30s that I started really getting interested in these abilities. I was not... I just didn't go there. I was an artist. I was creating. It was all about creating. I was constantly creating, designing, creating. But in the meantime, I was also... I was getting more and more hurt or taking on more and more energy that now I know what I was doing. I was healing everybody. You know, I've talked about this with many people and on my show a lot too. But I was just sensitive to everybody's stuff and I didn't have a conscious awareness of what it was I was doing. I was being who I am, which is somebody who's really aware of energy, but not in a conscious way. So, did you think you were unusual or did you... No. You thought everybody had this kind of ability? Okay. I felt responsible. It was a mess. So, that's really interesting. So, tell us what your... When did you have this epiphany? When did you have this clarity that, oh my gosh, I have a gift and I can turn this around and I can help people and I could actually, oh my gosh, make a business out of this? Well, I first had the epiphany when I took... Okay. Okay. I took a grounded meditation class called the psychic meditation class at the school in Chicago called Envision that is now Envision. It had a different name then, but that's the school that I went into. And I took this class. I'd met this woman from the school and I liked her and I liked the energy of the place and it's a clairvoyant training school. And I went in and took this class and I learned to ground. And when I learned to ground, I went, oh my God, this is like a whole game changer. Right. And all of a sudden, I started becoming conscious and aware. I started realizing that I was a part of energy and that was the language and the awareness in the school was you are energy and you take on stuff. And I started realizing it. And then I did the clairvoyant training. I went right into it. And as soon as I started sitting in these readings and doing this, I was like, oh, I've been doing this all along. And it became more and more and more fun and also a little bit disturbing too because when you start realizing what you've been doing. Right. Like, oh my gosh, I've been doing that. You know, I'm going to let that go and then become. And it was when I was a teacher. At Envision, I was there as a teacher full time for six years before I moved out here. I started seeing more and more and more how I'd like to do my thing. I didn't know what that was yet, how I would create my business. I really liked teaching there, but I love teaching. And it became my passion. And when I moved out here is when I started creating those pictures of how I can turn this into this kind of a business. So I had to come out to L.A. and get myself grounded out here. It took a while. Yeah, well, it does. It does. I love L.A., but it does. You got to find your space. It's not grounded like Chicago. Well, it's pretty cold in Chicago right now too. Yeah, I know. I like it out here. I'm not complaining. That's right. That's right. So after you created Confetti Kids, so where did you go from there? So you're in your early 20s still or in your 20s while you were doing all of the fashion designing. And then you went off on your own. What was the next step in your career? Confetti Kids came along at the same time as my first women's line called Bourgeois Rags. Love these. Where are they today? You know, I have some of the labels somewhere, but they're gone. And then I kind of moved through both of those and formed a brand new women's line called Lemmingwear. And Lemmingwear, like lemmings. It was all hand dyed silk. It was all clothing. I loved it. I did that for years. I did well with that. I did that for years and found a niche with that. And then there was costume design and then theater design and all that stuff in there. But then I really wanted to paint. I mean, I'd gone all the way through art school and gotten a degree and not painted. You know, it was crazy. And it was a fear I had that I won't be any good and all this. So around that time, I started painting in the early 90s. I was done with fashion by the early 90s. And I started painting. And I started then creating shows. Great. I always showed my work everywhere. I saw thousands of paintings over those years. Like about maybe 12, not thousands, maybe about 1,500 paintings. That's a lot of paintings. That's a lot of time in the studio painting. They were little to big too. Yeah. So I think that's great because sometimes people think, well, I'm doing this and it's successful or it pays the bills. And to take that. That leap or that jump and say, okay, well, I'm going to do what I've really been wanting to do all along. Were you frightened? Like, can I support myself? Absolutely. I was terrified. And I had this conversation the other night with Nestor too. It's like when you're painting and if you've painted, you know this, that painting is fighting you. It's not the painting. It's your own stuff. And so I'd gone from working with people more to being in a studio by myself more. And that was really. It's really a different transition, a different more. It's the kind of thing every entrepreneur I think gets. You know, if you're doing your thing on your own, you've got to deal with that. Yeah. Well, you've got to kind of feel you've got to feel it out and see what works and what doesn't work. And yeah. And sometimes you don't know that you can work by yourself until you work by yourself and you don't know that you can't until you you try it. So. Yeah. Um, so what do you mean the painting was fighting you? Because I took up painting about almost two years ago now. Yeah. So. What I found was as soon as it became a business, as soon as it became a thing where I was like, I was creating shows, I had deadlines. I was creating enough or I was getting commissions or, you know, just needing to fill in where different places where I had my stuff hanging. It became more of a thing where there was more of a doubt. And so it's not like the painting was fighting me. The painting was perfectly fine all by itself. It wasn't doing anything bad. I was the one fighting me. And I had to learn how to create more peace. And that's in those years is when I learned how to meditate. Okay. As an artist, I learned how to meditate. And that was the class I told you about. And that changed my art. That actually changed my art. Learning how to meditate and ground and work with energy. Everything became more about energy. So you were, you were practicing what you're, what you're doing now. Yeah. Practicing that. Um, you were painting. Mm-hmm. And so what was the next step? The next step was, um, as soon as I started teaching at Envision and I became a full, I actually became a full-time artist. I was a full-time artist. I was a full-time artist. I was a full-time artist. I was a full-time artist. I was a full-time artist. And, and I became a full, I actually became a full-time teacher there. I was still painting and doing my shows and teaching there. And I was actually getting paid to teach. And I was setting up my, my, um, reading practice. You know, creating a client base of reading. My breathing practice. Um, and, but because I was part of the school, like everything I did was within that school. Mm-hmm . I did it kind of, you know, it was a great space. We were allowed to bring in, you know, use the space to do what we needed to do too. Um, but then when it was time for practice. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. when it was time to move out here in 2006, I took all of that, brought it out here, started painting again out here, and then also really started building my practice out here. So by 2010, I was ready to go full time. Yeah. You'd started to build a bit of a client base here. And I have clients all over the world now. And it still incorporates your art and all of that. So that's great. Um, what would you say would be a rookie mistake that you made early on though? Hmm, which one? One thing I have learned over the years, and I know it's from mistakes I made, is to really, I've become very good at communication. I have really, I've really become good at communication. But one of the, I mean, if I do say so myself, and if I find I'm not doing something that way, then I'll, I'll try to correct it. But I have my newsletter. I'm, I don't spam people. I communicate. I've never done anything like that, but I'll, I'll really communicate, you know, sending a thank you or a hello, or rather than just assuming. A rookie mistake for me has always been assuming something. Right. And then I'm in judgment over it, and I can't see it clearly. That's, you know. That's really good information to impart. So when you create, you created this business, even though you've been entrepreneurial all of your life, and you started your clothing company, and you had your art, did you always have it as an official business? All of those different businesses, did you have them as an official business? Yes. So as a creative, and not taking all the business classes in school, how did you have the confidence, or how did you find out what you needed to do to take it from being like, you know, a hobby to being an actual business? Well, early on, my husband and I have had accountants, you know, an accountant who would do our taxes and all this. And my husband's, he's a filmmaker, and he's been a producer, and he's done all this stuff. So he's pretty good with those spreadsheets. And he would tell me, okay, you need to, you know, he would be the one telling me, because I'd say, okay, the tax time is hell. How do I deal with this better? You know, and I just was, just not very organized about it for years. And I've become very organized. I have spreadsheets for everything. But that was a thing, just like a trial and error. That was a rookie mistake, not keeping better track of things. I know there were, you know, different deductions and things I could have had that I didn't. Right. Because I just was careless. I was sloppy, you know, and now I don't do that anymore. So it's very good advice to recommend that whenever you get started, just go ahead and set up those systems right away. Learn the different things that you need to do to keep track of things. To keep track of what you're selling, what you're spending, where all that money's going. Set aside. Paying attention to it rather than resisting it. Because we go into that fear mode where we don't pay attention to it. And then all of a sudden it creeps up and you're like, I got to deal with it anyway. Might as well be easier. We just hope it'll go away. And we put our head in the sand. It'll go away. Yeah. And I think for, especially a lot of people who are creative, they do want to just kind of pretend that that part doesn't exist. Yeah. It's not to say, it's to say that they can't do it. But typically that's not, that's not why they got in the business. Right. You know, they got into it because they wanted to be creative. And so, but you also have to take a look at those other things and that are required, that are mandatory and figure out a way to make them happen so that it doesn't stress you out. Yeah. And there was one more working mistake you just reminded me of when you were saying all that. Undercharging. I did that for years. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. So how did you, how did you transition from that? From saying, from not valuing yourself enough and being afraid that people wouldn't pay you what you desired to be paid or felt, you know, that you were actually worth to turning the leaf and saying, I'm worth this and, and the right people will find me. Well, and that's actually, I feel much prouder of myself now than I did back then because I've actually done that out here, you know, more with, I gave myself a raise with my rate last fall for the first time in five years. Oh, I like the way, oh, I love, I love how you just said that. I gave myself a raise with my rate. Yeah. That's really cool. Thank you. Yeah. It wasn't a huge raise, but I was like, I have to give myself a raise. This is crazy. It's just, I'm not doing, I can still do specials from here, from time to time. But one thing I've learned over the years is that, if I don't value my work, then it's not going to be valued. I have a great story. There was a, my first, one of my very first art shows I ever did in Chicago was in something called the Around the Coyote Art Festival. And it's this huge, you know, outdoor art festival, but actually not outdoor, in studio too. And the neighborhood Wicker Park, which is a pretty big, you know, it's, it's been up and coming for many years, but now it's got there. It's already there. Used to be the place where Around the Coyote would be and artists would just, you know, apply to be in these different studios and you'd show up with your stuff wherever they told you to go and you'd hang your work and thousands of people would come trooping through all this and you'd sell a lot of work if you want, you know, or just at least get it seen. And it was my first time and I was very nervous. I was new at my craft and this way I was making paintings. And the first, the first thing that I got was this woman who was in charge of the building I was in, looked at my work. They'd stuck me in a basement in this room that was just, kind of hideous with fluorescent lighting with a guy who made glow in the dark art. So he wanted to turn the lights off all the time. Oh my gosh. It was like, you couldn't make this up. And she came and looked at my work and she said, oh, and I heard her say under her breath, oh, it's a lot better than I thought. Like they put me in the basement because she didn't think my work was going to be very good. So anyway, I had my prices up and all my stuff. Some guy came through this, these two men and one of them just looked so mad and he came up to me and he said, you are, you are not going to sell anything until you value your work. Because my prices were too low in his opinion. He had to rip me a new one. Wow. It was really funny. You had some, you had some people looking out for you at that. Yes. I thanked him. I said, thank you. Thinking he could have been nicer, but whatever. It really offended him. Yeah. And it was very funny. So I just kept raising, you know, little bits by little bits. And it took me a while, Jan. That's a hard one. It is a hard one. It's, yeah, it is. It is. And I do know exactly what you're talking about. And especially with my art. And I, I think, I think maybe like with my art, it's, it's priced very appropriately. And part of, part of me being a new artist was like, well, maybe I shouldn't, maybe I shouldn't price it at that because I'm new. I don't, I don't have all of those credentials behind me where I've done 20 art shows or I've done, I've done this or I've done that. But then I thought, you know what? I don't really care if I sell it or not. I really like this painting. And so I have to make sure that I sell it for enough that it would be okay if I parted with it. Yeah. And I think that's how I wrap my head around being able to price my paintings at that, at the price that I priced them at is what was I willing to let them go for. That's exactly what I used to say. What do I have to be given in order to let go of this painting? Yeah. Yeah. Because there were some, there's some that I still wish I had not sold. I'd kept. Yeah. Yeah. And there's some that I have that I've priced like way up there. Yes. It's like, whoa, I bet I really like this. And somebody buys it. Great. Yeah. Yeah. Then I would feel like, oh, okay, it's gone to a really good home or something. You know, they're going to really love it. I want to make sure they really love it. So I guess, you know, that's, that's a tangible thing and it isn't necessarily, you're not necessarily able to apply it. You can't apply it across the board. So that's one way of being able to price it at that value. But I think turning it around and looking at what, what the market is getting for your services or for your, your products and knowing that and believing and, and being authentic and true with that is that you're not going to sell anything that's inferior. Right. You're going to give the very best that you can possibly get. And that should give you confidence. You know, and, and, you know, talking about value in women. I mean, you look at women who, like even with a service and they're not willing to, to charge a certain price, but yet they'll go out and, and easily pay someone else. Right. To, to do something. And tip them. And tip them. Yes. Yes. And so whether it's for an attorney, to an attorney, or whether it's to a hairdresser or to whatever, they easily pay it and they don't question it. And they don't question it. They don't question that. And so being able to turn that around and apply it to yourselves. And so I, I think that's just an incredible business lesson that you just shared and give somebody a little bit more confidence to say, I'm going to give myself a raise in my rates. And we've got to remember too, I mean, especially if you are offering something you created, your paintings, no one else is going to create those. Right. Yeah. They can't be made by anyone else. No, no one else reads, gives a reading the way I do. Other people do it the way they do. It's not a conversation. It's not a competition. It's, you have a particular vibration. People will line up for it. Yeah. And you deserve to get paid for it. Exactly. And, and you notice a lot of times too, people will say, well, we had to raise our prices on our products because shipping costs are more, this is more. And, and really you don't necessarily have to justify that. Yeah. You know, if people want it, they'll pay for it. And, and so think about what it's worth it to you to create, to produce, to, to do what it is that you're doing and, and then, and take into account what the market will bear. Wasn't it from the book that you were talking about, Choose Yourself, the example of the woman who, I'm, I'm wondering if I'm remembering this correctly, but the woman who was trying to price, to get this, move this turquoise jewelry out of her, out of her shop. Was that from, I just read this the other day and I was reading three things at once and one was that outline you sent me. It's possible. My memory is not as good as it, it used to be, but for listeners who, maybe listening, we, I reviewed a book, Choosing Yourself and wrote kind of a little book report on it and, and Chris read it. So, it could have been in there. What was, what was the point of that? Well, the point of it was that, it was the, the author was talking about value, the value of something. And this woman, this jewelry was very, very beautiful and it was not cheap stuff, but it wasn't moving in her shop. And so she, she was frustrated. She, she kept putting it in different locations. She wanted to just get it moving, get it out. Yeah. So she was going to be out of town for something and she left a note for an employee saying, move it to here and cut it in half, half price. But it sound, it looked to the employee like double the price. The employee doubled the price and it all sold. Fantastic. I mean, there's a correct price point for everything. Sure. And that's the key is finding it. And also how, how, how much are you willing to, I don't remember that story in particular, but there, there was another one I think, and it did come from that book. And, and just going back to what we're talking about, we'll move on to different subjects here in a minute, but also being willing to, don't price yourself out of the market either. Like you got to be willing to kind of let things go. Sometimes if you know what it is that you actually value, like did she value more holding on to all of the turquoise or did she value more getting rid of it? Yeah. And so that might be what you're, you're referring to. Cause I think that was in the book where if, if it's really more important for you to get rid of it, then go ahead and let it go. Right. If anyone wants to call in, we would love to hear from you. The number is 1-800-893-9562. You can call in, ask me a question, ask us a question. We're talking about lots of things, all, all entrepreneurial and, and how you get through being an entrepreneur, the joys and the, and the frustration. So what is so joyful to you? Being an entrepreneur? I get to be near my refrigerator and wear yoga pants all day. And if that's not incentive enough, except when I have clients coming over a lot of my clients I work with by phone or Skype or, and then I just have to have some makeup as long as it's from the, the, the waist up. Right. But I really love working for myself because I can, I work a lot of hours, but I'll rearrange my time according to, so I get to do different things. So how do you, how do you motivate yourself? Because you know, like you said, you can do a lot, um, by working out of your home or, or a private office. Um, and, um, you don't always have maybe the, the deadlines, like someone's not telling you to be at work at nine o'clock in the morning, um, and, uh, requiring you to work 60 hour weeks and all of those things. How do you motivate yourself to, I look at my bank account. And that is a good motivator. Being hungry. Being hungry. You gotta be hungry. Yeah. I know that, I know how things work in my business to some degree, but I know that a lot of it too is, and I, I should just say this to my husband again this morning. Like, you know, when I'm in good, when I feel good, when my energy is good, like when I'm really taking care of myself, my energy, my, my business grows. It's just really connected for me. And I think it is for a lot of people. Yeah. I, I agree with that. A hundred percent. I can't create if I don't feel good. And so I'm, I'm very motivated about, about creating. I love, you know, I love what I'm doing. So that's the first key. It just, I just, at a certain point, I, I lost my motivation for creating an art career. Cause I realized I didn't care. I want to make art. I don't really care about the art world. I just got tired of the shenanigans. I got tired of, you know, feeling weird about that. I didn't know this is getting in the way of me creating, but what I do now, I'm so independent, but I can work with different people, but I'm still running my own, my own thing. I'm, I'm kind of the one steering the boat. So I have to be motivated if I'm going to be getting the people in, you know, and I'm always, I write, I do all these things that like help people see me. I read a lot of social media stuff, like how, not to follow every single little thing, but you know, like the marketing stuff we do and just to see like, how does it, what's a good way to work it. And I'm, and I'm really easily approachable too. Yes. One thing I've learned, I've been on Yelp with my business. I can't even tell you the number of times when I'll call somebody back, who's called me and left me a message who found me on Yelp. And they'll say, thank you for calling me back as if no one calls them back. Like other people don't. No, other people don't. That is that that's like the best business lesson out there. Call people back, you know, email them back. I agree. Yeah. Like right now I agree. I think that's a, a really huge, huge thing that we can all do. And it's simple. It doesn't cost any money. It's a little bit of time, but it really goes into customer service and just call. And, and I, I've heard that same thing. Oh my God, I'm actually talking to you. You know, it's, it's crazy that, that we've gone so far that we're not taking that into account. Yeah. And recognizing how important it is. Cause people. And you're right. Customer service. Yeah. It, it really comes into that. So, yeah. Just even having that feedback is kind of a big motivator as well. Yeah, it is. So when you, when you were with any of the businesses that you started, did you sit down and do the whole big business plan? Nope. Never did. Never needed a business plan. I would look at what is my goal? Like what is the thing I want to do? And I would just keep learning. I mean, I was always learning just like you do. And everyone, you know, we do like I'm constantly would be learning from other people in that business. When I did fashion, all the fashion designers who would pass different things on to, you know, each other in terms of information and you could see who was doing really well. And everybody would want to kind of do stuff with them. Yeah. You know, being a show with them or whatever, because they were, they had something on the ball. It's kind of like when you're in school and you look at the one who's the, you know, you know, they're making good grades and they're always raising their hand and they always know the answer. And then when they put you in teams, you know, it's like, Oh, I want to be with that person. I want to be with that person. Cause they have the mojo. They have that going. Well, there's a lot to learn from people like that, whether it's the way they organize their, their, their daily list or, or you know what they're doing. There's a lot to learn from, from the people who are successful. Absolutely. I always recommend that study, study other people and see what they're doing. Right. You know, absolutely. So, but looking, going back to, so you don't have that particular business plan to that women are so afraid of and actually, I wanted, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, those kind of opportunities. And sometimes when you have that very rigid business plan, you never think outside the box. You just always constantly, well, that's not my plan. And this is what I've got to follow. And this is what I've projected. And this is all of that kind of thing. Yeah. Do you ever sit down though and say, all right, so this is how much money I want to make per month, or this is how much money I want to make for the year? Yes. Or all the time. I haven't reached those numbers yet. Well, I say, just keep jacking it up. Oh, I am. And what is that saying? Shoot for the moon. And if you miss, you'll land amongst the stars. Exactly. Well, I am reaching the numbers I wanted like a few years ago when I was first getting started and hardly making anything. You know? Well, you've got to have that belief in yourself and obviously you do, and you love what you're doing and it's projected. I mean, it's one of the things that first attracted me to you is that, you know, you just, you're so embodied. And believe everything you do in everything you do. Yeah. And that's important. Thank you. And, you know, for everybody to have that. And if you're not doing it, you don't believe in it, then don't be doing it. Yeah. People will know. People will know. If you don't have the, your spirit involved in what you're doing, people are going to know. There's just going to be something missing. Absolutely. You'll be bored. So that's a real key takeaway for everybody is to be authentic with everything that you're doing. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that, you won't still have to do some things you don't really want to like the accounting or whatever. Yeah. But, but being authentic with what you're doing and, and having that passion around what you're doing and not just thinking money, making money is certainly very important, but not just thinking about how do I make money? Yeah. So this for me was never about how do I make money? It was that, oh, I can make money doing this, but I want to do this. That's the key. What was, what was the hardest lesson you learned when you were in business? Um, the negative self-talk, like how to get out of it, you know, not to, you know, I can, I can have, I always have this picture of riding a wave, riding the wave, the wave is, you know, and it's good. Like when the, when things are flowing and everything's coming in and then all of a sudden there's no wave, whammo. And it's just those cycles we hit. Sure. And I've, I've had to learn over the years. I've had to learn over the years, I've had to learn over the years, I've had to learn over the years how to, and especially in the past couple of years, I've realized this is just, this is just the flow of what I do. And when I, when the wave stops, it's not failure or that I'm not doing the thing right. It's that now it's the time to go, um, you know, take care of the other things, the stuff that when I'm, uh, when I'm in the middle of so much busyness with clients and new students and everything, I don't have the time to take care of like the, some of the creating I need to do the backend. So I've gotten much better at balancing that, rather than freaking out and thinking, oh no, it's all going away, you know, and learning to tell yourself that it's okay. And, and, you know, looking at the successes that you've had in the past. Yeah. And planning different pictures, creating new pictures moving forward. And I do love, um, I, I, I'm not one of those who sat down and did the big business plan either. I never really have, but, um, and I'm not saying that it's wrong to do that. And if you're trying to go and get funding, then certainly. That's something you have to consider. Um, and, and it is very helpful for, for some, if, if that's really, um, if that's the way they work best. So you kind of have to know yourself and, and, and what works for you. But, um, I love the idea of having that kind of vision. So whether you have, have it on a piece of cardboard and you've pasted pictures or whether you've, you've got this permanent image in your mind or created a journal, or some people put it on their computer so that they see it every day or. You know, just whatever it is that you're doing and using that can help you to continue to, to move forward. Um, but we talked about success just a second ago and how do you measure success? You know, the way I'm measuring success these days is not about how much money I'm making. I mean, that's certainly a part of it for me. It's a success. I want a successful financial, um, you know, healthy financial thing in my business. Certainly that's important, but it's more about how happy I feel with what I'm doing. And also do I have the time and the, um, uh, I don't know, the organizational skills to create the things like this year is a lot about work, work, work, work, but it's also about creating, I'm putting into motion new things. I'll be launching a few new things that I'm not really talking about a whole lot yet, but I will be when they're, you know, here and including getting my first book written. Absolutely. That's a big deal. And to me, that would be, no matter how many copies I have, I'm going to be able to do it. I'm going to be able to do it. I don't care. Just getting it written. Of course, when I publish it, I'll probably be like, okay, now I care. I want to sell a lot of copies. I want people to read this thing, you know, but for me, it's just about getting it out there, getting it, doing that work. That's to me is being a successful human being is about being a success. It's not about money. Yeah. About how I feel. It's about how my relationships are. It's about how I'm, you know, how happy I am. With what I'm doing. That's, those are important things to me. And they're very important for people to recognize what, you know, what their, their definition of success is. Yeah. And so to be able to define it and, and not to beat themselves up if they haven't reached it, because putting like a set deadline, that just helps you to kind of keep going. But if you get to that deadline and if you haven't done anything, then you need to reevaluate whether that was really important to you to do or not. Yeah. But if you get there and you're shy of, of some of the things that you were trying to accomplish, that's okay. There's, there's still tomorrow. You just keep moving forward and taking one step at a time and really concentrating on all the things that you have done. So, you know, and looking back, you can say, well, I'm, I'm creating content for the book, even if I haven't finished creating all of the content. And I do have my radio show and I do have my clients and, and I do have my clients. And I do have my clients. And I do have my clients. And I do have my clients. I do have all of these things. So just continuing to be grateful for all of the things that you have done and continuing to look forward with excitement and anticipation. And you'll always be adding new things to your plate. I don't wanna say to your plate because that sounds like it's a lot to do, but adding more things that will bring you joy and fulfillment. So- Definitely, because one of the things I do wanna get back into is a little bit of art. And I've really been wanting to draw. I was never so much the drawer as the painter, but I've been wanting to draw. And there's all these great tools out there to play with. So to me, that's gonna be one of the things that's on the back burner right now. Yeah, and it's okay to have it out there, but not have it front and center so that it's competing for your time and attention and taking away from the other things that you're trying to accomplish. I know a lot of times people say, well, you should do this and you should do this. And it's, well, I gotta focus on what I'm doing right now. And I wanna do all of those things, but there's a time and a place for that. So that's great. What do you think are the skills and the strengths that you have that have enabled you to be successful? I'm very determined and I have a very optimistic outlook on things. We were talking about that earlier. Yeah, I'm pretty positive in how I see stuff. And I'm always, I can always see, I can always put a spin. I would have made a great spin doctor. I can always put a spin on it. And it's not, you know, making it up, although it is, it's good. We have this joke around our house, another year older, another day older, another day closer to making stuff up. And I'm like, yeah, but that's part of creating spiritually. And I believe in that. I see the power of it, of a vision, imagining, creating, picturing. It's what I've done my whole life as an artist. And then now I'm doing that in my life in a different way. So my optimism is a big positive for me. I think that's great. And I can definitely see how that will help to contribute to you being successful. Because if you're constantly looking at the negative part, then you don't have that motivation to keep you going. But as long as there's still hope and you have that optimistic view of what this can be and all of the things that you can accomplish and in all the ways that you can help others to, to, to find their, their balance, their center, their, help them to relieve that stress, help them to look forward to the future. That's such a gift that you have that you're able to share with others. And as long as you're able to keep doing that, even if it's just one person and knowing that, you know, each one person that you help, you know, it, it adds up. And I'd say that humor is important. So even if you find yourself stuck in the negative, you know, you're not going to be able to find that positivity. Like I, when I do, I'm like, okay, I got to find something funny about this. I've got to, not to make fun of it or make light of it or pretend it's not there, but there's always something funny. Yeah. When we take everything so seriously, then we get stuck is what I've noticed for myself. No, I think that's great advice and, and good for everyone who's listening or will listen to this interview in the future, uh, to recognize that. I agree. You've talked about this before, and I was, I was struck by your conversation. You came and spoke at one of my masterminds. Um, and so if you don't remember exactly what you said, then I'll, I'll help remind you. And this isn't even the question, but, um, gut instinct versus experience, which is more important and why gut instinct is usually an instant response, you know, like intuition. It's an instant response. You're not overthinking it. You're not basing it on something. You're not basing it on something else. You're not weighing it against the, the past. You're not judging it. And it's something to listen to. It's very important. And what it's really hard for us as, um, people who consider ourselves rational beings, I'm going to go think a lot about that thing. We get stuck in doing that and trying to make sense of something rather than following gut instinct, which is, you know, it's actually a gift. So what I suggest to people, cause I know sometimes it's like weaning yourself off, of your, of your chatter mind, you know, sort of weaning away from the, it must make sense into the feeling. It's more about the feeling or being with it. Sometimes you need, you need both. I don't think one replaces the other. I think that there's a balance that we in our Western society don't necessarily have yet. More and more people do, but some of the most successful people out there, including, um, corporation, you know, corporation leaders and, and, and leaders and CEOs will say that they follow their intuition. And for whatever reason, not, I'm not judging it as good or bad, just saying, yep, they've learned how to. It is the most acceptable psychic ability, you know, on a societal level to follow your, your gut, your nose, your intuition. That's important. If you don't do it, I'd say start following it and just, and then validate it when it works. So that's an important part to validate it when it works, because that's what a lot of us don't do. Yeah, we don't, we don't recognize it. We judge ourselves when it isn't right. But there's always something in there like paying attention. And rather than having the mind go, no, no, no, that doesn't make sense. I'm just going to go do this thing because it makes sense, you know, which our minds do. And yeah, our minds are trying to keep us safe. It's all that. What is it? Seth Godin calls it the monkey mind. Or no, the lizard brain. He calls it the lizard brain. And that's, the lizard brain is, the lizard brain is the part of us back when we were lizards that formed to keep us safe. You know, it's like fear. It's a fear base. And if we go into just thinking, thinking, thinking, and forget to be and feel and intuit and have that, we have a whole other set of tools that we forget about when we don't listen to our gut instinct. So I like that using, using your gut for the little things and then validating that, that, and this is working and how it worked. And then also still taking into account experience. So you're not saying get rid of experience, but, but just pulling that into the equation. And actually that, that probably has a bigger, plays a bigger part with gut instinct than we even realize anyway. And what did you say, this is what I'm focusing on when you talked about gut instinct, how do you determine the difference, whenever there's fear or, or your instinct? How do you know which one to listen to? And how do you not? That's a tough one. And how do you not know that the fear is your gut instinct? Well, and what I've noticed about my, this just speaking for me, my intuition, my gut instinct over the years, and it's gotten, you know, I've developed it more, but it is very quiet. It's sort of just off stage. It's kind of like just out there. It's not something you can explain or, or, or prove to anybody else. I say, you know, it's hard to tell the difference sometimes. Like if you have a feeling that says, oh, stay away from that person, that can be your gut instinct saying, I don't want to be near that person. And I was going to say, and add to this, your body will tell you, you know how sometimes you're around somebody and your body just, your body doesn't want to be around that person. The body language. Yeah. The way you feel, the way your body, it's learning to listen to the body and learning to listen within really helps, you know, the difference between what's just your mind going. No, no, no, no, no. And what's your body. Now, here's another thing. I mean, that, that was actually what I learned in the psychic meditation class was grounding myself, working from non-judgment. All of a sudden I could, I had some tools to, to, to kind of tell the difference between what was kind of running over me and then where I really was getting the information. So meditation's a great way to, meditation's a great way to start to build up these tools. You know, just having stillness and time where you're not, you're, you're not going off into the phone or the computer or noise or other people, stillness, getting to know yourself and you'll know the difference more and more and more. So you can build that skill. And so for those who are thinking, well, should I, should I add this to my business or should I even launch a business? I'm trying to just be still and listen. I'm trying to be still and listening to what you're saying, what your mind is saying to you and not letting, because there's always going to be fear around launching a business. There's always going to be fear around doing something new. Yeah. And, and letting your mind just tell you whether that's really valid, a valid fear or not, and being still and long enough to, to let your mind talk to you. And when push comes to shove, I'm always for all for listen to your heart, follow your heart. And that makes no sense to anybody else. That's the hardest thing is not so much what we do with to ourselves, but what other people say, no, because their fear comes in. Sure. And I'm not making them all wrong. It might be people who just really care about somebody and say, oh, that's gonna, you're going to go broke and blah, blah, blah. And it goes into all this fear. No, I, yeah. Rather than the following your heart, you have to follow your heart. I agree. I tell a lot of people that it, just because the, the naysayers are, they're operating out of their own fears and their own difficulties that they've had. And they're operating actually out of love because they don't want to see you, you know, make the same mistakes that, but that, but they're not you. Right. They're you. And you know what you're capable of. Yeah. I grew up with a father who had always had his own business. You know, we didn't, we were never rich and there was a lot of fear around it. And he, I don't know that he was necessarily a good businessman, but I learned at a young age, oh, I'm going to be a good businessman. And I learned that just by watching. Yeah. And that's the thing that the more you see more and more people, and I know you talk about this stuff more and more people these days starting their own businesses, because they don't want to work for a corporation. Right. They don't want to go work for a big mindless, you know, or soulless kind of environment. They want to do something that means something to them. And because we're finding more and more, there's not a safety net, even, even with the big corporations or with anybody, there's no safety net. There's no safety net. So what have I got to lose? Right. Exactly. You know? So I like that. I'm trusting, trusting your own intuition, your gut instinct, and there are other factors involved, but being able to trust that and listen to it. Who do you admire most as a business leader? Oh my goodness, that's really tough, but I will tell you, I admire so many different people from all different walks of life. You know, performers. I really admire a lot of strong, strong older women, as you can imagine. I really admire people. And I'm trying to like, I could name names. I mean, I admire, for example, Elizabeth Warren. You know, I admire Seth Godin. I, cause he's a, he's a writer who shares, but he's also a business person. I admire all the artists and the musicians and everybody who has the nerve to get it out there. I admire Amanda Palmer. She's a musician. I admire just people who create. He did a great TED talk, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I admire so many of these people, and it's not like there's even just one. I'm always bringing in information, new information and reading people and learning about business, but I learn about it from people across all levels. So is there something common that, that you feel all of these particular, leaders have? Yes, they give. And they're very, there's a creativity, just a constant, like bringing something new forward. And I don't mean like the new thing to buy, but new ideas. Like it's a, it's a positive moving forward. We really are creating a new economy, even if it doesn't look like it to a lot of people, but the entrepreneurs are the ones doing it. The people starting their own businesses and working for themselves. I agree. Yeah. How do you understand that? I mean, I think that's, I think that's a really important thing. I think that's a really important thing. I think that's a really important thing. I think that's a really important thing. I think that's a really important thing. Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, Sectors, collaborator, who would that be? A dream collaborator. That you'd want to collaborate with on something. Well, I do have a number of people I want to collaborate with. So I'm starting to look at that. But one of them actually, I really do want to do some work with my husband. He's a really good actor and he's a filmmaker. And he has all the tools and the skills to create some of the stuff I'm looking at moving forward. But there's other people too. I have a few friends, Kathleen Kagey's one. My friend, Susie Gardner, just different people who we all, there are projects coming with these different people. Well, I can't wait to see what you have coming forward. I don't know if you want to share any of that. I have a meditation site I'm creating. It's just about meditation and I want to be doing a soft launch by the end of March. So I'm working on that. Okay. We've put it out there. We have. It's called My Meditation Nation. I love it. I love it. I have it. I'm building the site. So we'll see. That sounds absolutely fantastic. Are you doing that yourself? I am, but I will have help at some point, but I have to own it right now. I have to really like, I have to be the one whose energy is working it. And how did you learn to do all of that stuff? Did you teach yourself? Yeah. A lot of it. I'm a self-hosted WordPress user. So it's on WordPress. I've learned how to do all kinds of stuff over the years just by being a blogger. I've been a blogger since 2007. So just... You got in when the... Well, I mean, you obviously had vision that, you know, this is a great way to share my voice. I had no idea why I was doing it. I just knew that I wanted to. And then I realized, oh, now I know why. It's helping me find my new pictures, like create the new vision of what I want. So I do a lot of research and reading. I mean, I'm by no means as geeky as I could be. I'd like to be geekier. I'd like to learn how to code. That's one of my things I really like to... I'd like to learn that skill. Wow. I'm impressed. Coding is a good skill. Yes. I think it would be a very, very good skill. And I'm impressed that you're not afraid to take on that new challenge, you know, especially as we get older. I would say the majority. I think I can speak for the majority. You know, there's so many things changing immediately that, you know, we just have to jump into it. But we're going to have to close our show here. We could keep talking to you forever. One piece of advice? I'd say have fun. All right. Well, all of you entrepreneurs out there, have fun. Thank you for listening to our show today. And thank you, Chris Gay Hill of Psychic Every Day. Thank you, Jen. Thank you. I got the eye of the tiger, the fire, dancing through the fire. I am a champion and you're gonna hear me. I'm a champion.