Mark 5 exegesis with panel on justice and faith

Get up, stand up Stand up for your right Get up, stand up Stand up for your right Get up, stand up Stand up for your right Get up, stand up Don't give up the fight Preach a man, oh tell me Heaven is on the dear I know you don't know What life is really worth It's an art that Peter scolds After a story I've never been told So now you see the light Stand up for your right Come on, get up Stand up, stand up Stand up for your right Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Stand up, stand up Consider what the Bible tells us about opposing imperialism and fighting injustice, and we will learn what it means to be spiritually awake and enlightened. Our panel of commentators include Professor David Westphal, my father, the Reverend Carl Procida, Melvin Ishmael Johnson of the Qumran Report and Drama Stage Qumran, and Attorney Lina Schick. My name is Rich Procida and I write biblical exegesis at modernlectionaries.blogspot.com. Today we will read Mark Chapter 5, verses 21 to 43, followed by my commentary and then our panel discussion. We'll save time at the end for our action report. Okay. Let's start. When Jesus had crossed again in the boat to the other side, a great crowd gathered around him, and he was by the sea. And then one of the leaders of the synagogue, named Jurius, came and, when he saw him, fell at his feet and begged him repeatedly, My little daughter is at the point of death. Come and lay your hands on her so that she may be made well and live. So he went with him. And a large crowd followed him and pressed in on him. Now there was a woman who had been suffering from hemorrhages for twelve years. She had endured much under many physicians and had spent all that she had, and she was no better but rather grew worse. She had heard about Jesus and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak. For she said, If I but touch his clothes, I will be made well. She said to him, I will be made well. Immediately her hemorrhage stopped, and she felt in her body that she was healed of her disease. Immediately aware that power had gone forth from him, Jesus turned about in the crowd and said, Who touched my clothes? And his disciples said to him, You see the crowd pressing in on you? How can you say, Who touched me? He looked all around to see who had done it. But the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came in fear and trembling. She fell down before him and told him the whole truth. He said to her, Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace and be healed of your disease. While he was still speaking, some people came from the leader's house to say, Your daughter is dead. Why trouble the teacher any further? But overhearing what they said, Jesus said to the leader of the synagogue, Do not fear, only believe. He allowed no one to follow him except Peter, James, and John, the brother of James. When they came to the house of the leader of the synagogue, he saw a commotion, people weeping and wailing loudly. When he had entered, he said to them, Why do you make a commotion and weep? The child is not dead, but sleeping. And they laughed at him. Then he put them all outside and took the child's father and mother and those who were with him and went in where the child was. He took her by the hand and said to her, Talitha kum, which means, Little girl, get up. And immediately the girl got up and began to walk about. She was twelve years of age. At this they were overcome with amazement. He strictly ordered them that no one should know this and told them to give her something to eat. What it means to be a believer. What it means to have faith. The Bleeding Woman and the Dying Daughter by Rich Procida. Jesus has just returned from the Decapolis where he exercised the garrison demoniac. The Decapolis was a group of ten cities on the eastern frontier of the Roman Empire. Rome, in an effort to spread its culture and the imperial cult to the furthest reaches of its territory, built roads, public buildings, and temples throughout the Decapolis. Worship of the emperor was the common bond that linked the cities together. The story of the Garrison Demoniac is a metaphor for Roman culture and imperial rule. Marco depicts it as violent, brutal, unclean, and wracked with fear. When Jesus exercises its demons, its citizens react with terror and beg Jesus to leave. After facing off against a legion of demons and emerging victorious, Jesus crosses the Sea of Galilee to face the ills of his own people. He is welcomed by a crowd. The crowd represents the massive human cry for salvation from oppression and suffering. According to West Howard Brook, the crowd represents the poor. Ninety percent of first century Jews lived in desperate poverty. Here Jesus confronts the socio-economic divisions created by the cultural-religious domination system of Jewish theocratic rule. In other words, Jesus stands in the prophetic tradition of criticizing the religious focus on custom and ritual over justice and mercy. By doing this, Jesus is proclaiming the spirit and heart of the law. This is the story of two years. One of an impoverished woman and the other a religious ruler's daughter. The woman had been hemorrhaging for 12 years. She likely suffered from anemia, a potentially life-threatening condition that makes one weak and sometimes requires a blood transfusion. Something that physicians could not do in the first century. The girl was 12 years old, the age when a girl becomes a woman. This is the age. The girls begin to menstruate and also the time they were offered in marriage. The number 12 may also represent the 12 tribes of Israel. Her father is the leader of the local synagogue. This was a prominent position. There was usually only one synagogue in a village. Jairus well did influence in the community and may have been relatively wealthy. The synagogue was the most important institution in town. He may have faced criticism for turning to Jesus, but he was desperate. His daughter was dying. Jairus follows the socially approved procedure. He speaks on behalf of his daughter and bows when making his request. The bleeding woman, on the other hand, had no man to speak for her. In her despair, she covertly reaches out to touch Jesus' cloak. The woman had lost everything. Not only that, she has been ostracized. According to Jewish custom, she is impure. Anyone who touches her becomes unclean as well. She shouldn't be there. She violated the law by being among the crowd and by touching Jesus. She had to act secretly and one could imagine the tension, especially when she gets caught. Jesus feels power leaving. The woman is immediately healed. Her action? Although socially prohibited and in violation of the law, leads to her regeneration. Jesus doesn't admonish her. He praises her. Her faith has made her well. When we have no other choice, we must act. Unlike the Gentiles who reacted with fear to the power of Jesus' message, this woman acted with courage and audacity. We should learn from her. Things look hopeless today. Climate change. Police brutality. The corrupting influence of money and politics. Endless war and corporate control of the media seem like unsolvable problems. If we trust in God, we would not simply wait to go to heaven or look forward to the end of the world. We must act if we are to save ourselves and humanity. Of course, the woman believed she would be healed. Belief in magic was widespread among both Jews and Gentiles. There were many people who believed in it. Many miracle workers and stories of miraculous deeds. The point of the story is not merely that the woman believed she would be healed. Ancient readers would not have questioned the possibility. Instead, the story is about taking action. That's what it means to have faith. It's not her belief that made her well. She had to act upon it as well. The sense of despair is heightened when we learn that Jairus' daughter has died. Jesus tells Jairus not to be afraid. He says, I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. I am not afraid. demand change, we are often ridiculed. Mark 6, 1 through 6, which immediately follows our story, tells us of how Jesus' own family and neighbors rejected him. Jesus concludes that a prophet is without honor in his own country, among his own kin, and in his own house. Jesus could not perform any mighty deeds there because of their unbelief. We should follow Jesus' lead and disregard naysayers. They do not act because they do not believe. Matthew and Luke, for example, have Jesus ignore the laughing mourners. Jesus goes inside, takes the girl's hand, and says the magic words, Talitha kum, which is Aramaic for little girl, rise up. These words in Aramaic, one of only four times Aramaic is used in the gospel, are magical, like abracadabra. So, in antiquity, magic was viewed as part of the structure of the universe. Both Jews and pagans believed in it. Here, Jesus is portrayed as using magic to heal Jairus' daughter. Spooky-sounding palindromes like this were well known throughout the ancient world. Spellbooks like the Paris Magical Propriris attest to this. Mark also has Jesus use magic to exorcise the Gerasene demoniac. Talitha kum also echoes the resurrection. It reminds us of God raising up the lowly. Sleep here is a metaphor for spiritual death. Jairus' name means he will awaken or be enlightened. Later in the gospel, after Jesus predicts his death and resurrection, he puts a little child among them and says, whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me. And whoever welcomes me welcomes not me, but the one who sent me. Women and girls were among the lowest of Jewish society. They had no rights outside the home, and even in the home they were subject to the rule of their fathers or husbands. Girls passed from father to husband with no say in the matter. They were sold for dowry when they became of age, at about 12 years old. Women were not to be addressed or spoken to in public. They were to walk six paces behind their husband and were not allowed to divorce. The Mishnah taught that women were little more than slaves who could be acquired by intercourse, money, or writ. Jesus' tone towards women was different. He often considered them. His teachings were radical for his time. Many women, including prostitutes, were among his followers. Jesus was concerned about the public. He was concerned about the plight of women and children in Jewish society. After raising Jairus' daughter from the dead, Jesus tells them to give her something to eat. This not only proves that she is alive, death must be famishing. It is an instruction to the Jewish nation, provide for the lowly. To feed someone is to provide nourishment. This goes beyond food. We are to nourish mind and soul as well. This means we must provide people with education and opportunity, health care and housing, community and respect, and many other things. Mark's story points to the divisions in Jewish society, not only between male and female, but also between the weak and the strong, the clean and the impure, and the rich and the poor. Most of all, Mark is calling us to work both within the system and social conventions of our time, as well as outside of them. He is calling us to work within the system and social conventions of our time, as well as outside of them. He is calling us to work within the system and social conventions of our time, as well as outside of them. To foment change. To foment change. We do this by standing up for justice, whether by civil disobedience and protest, or by voting and participating in the democratic process. The Greek words used to describe the resurrection mean to wake up and to stand up. God woke Jesus up from death and stood Jesus up again. The resurrection of this 12-year-old girl and of Jesus is God's way of telling us to get up and stand up for justice. to get up and stand up for justice. This healing and resurrection represent spiritual rejuvenation. By lifting up the lowly and providing for the least of these, we strengthen and reinvigorate our nation. When we are spiritually rejuvenated, we find the courage to act justly and the fortitude to stand up for the rights of others. We are to take the hand of the dead and raise them up. We are to take the hand of the dead and raise them up. Rise up and stand up for justice! It's time to have the courage to act, to face the demons of our nation, and to lift up its lowly just as Jesus did. This is the only way to heal a nation. So, let's start out the question with David. I mean, that definition of the resurrection, it's like our song that we start off, Bob Marley's Get Up, Stand Up, could be a translation of the words used for the resurrection. But, David, can you give us an idea, what is spirituality? Spirituality is being guided by, or we use the word sometimes, under the influence of, and normally when we use that word under the influence of, we're talking about alcohol. But in Ephesians 5.18, it uses the same idea. It says, not be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit. So, we're supposed to be influenced by, controlled by, our actions are supposed to reflect this fact that the Spirit is in us and is leading us in the direction that God wants us to go. Okay. So, Lena, tell me, what... Is this... Is this a story about women's rights? I definitely think that that is a main element of the story that we see here. The parallels are pretty clear. You know, you see here that Jesus is saying, which is rise up. You know, rise up little girl who's coming of age, a 12-year-old little girl who at that time had just become a woman. And as a woman, it's time to rise up for your rights and to seek your own healing, just as the... And the woman who had been hemorrhaging for 12 years. Again, we see that number appear, the number 12. And I think that's really interesting because, you know, you have 12 months and a year. You know, in astrology, you have 12 zodiacs. 12 is like a number... Is a number of completion. And as a woman, you know, that's part of your own path is to complete that path that you've been on, that spiritual path. And... And anybody, man or woman, they can only complete their path if they rise up and become their authentic self and, you know, fight for their right. I think at the time it was really interesting because, you know, like you said, women didn't really have many rights. They were second class citizens. And Jesus, who's a man of God, came in and he spoke for the women, you know, especially women who were bleeding in many cultures across the world. the world are thought to be impure. Yet Jesus, the man of God came in and he's like, oh, who touched me? Oh, okay. It was you. No big deal. Go on my daughter, you know, and, and showing that there is a quality between all men that, you know, despite your gender, you're all equal in the eyes of God. And I think that's one of his main messages that we are all equal in the eyes of God. And, you know, he treated two women in different social casts, just the same. And he, I mean, you can see these parallels throughout, I think different religions. Islam was the, that the same with the prophet Muhammad was a revolutionary for his time. Women were treated as second-class citizens. And at the time, you know, he implemented things for them to have the right to divorce, the right to property, which had never, you know, been that way before. And, you know, he was a man of God. And, you know, he was a man of God. And, you know, he was a man of God. And, you know, he was a man of God. And, you know, he was a man of God. And, you know, yes, you know, there's many fanatical elements of Islam today, and you don't see those elements. But I think that that's a great, that's a big deal with religion is it's basically an enlightenment of the people. Because when you forget that half of the citizens, you know, of the population are being suppressed, then you are at a loss. I, um, sometimes the Bible is used to suppress women's rights and to, um, choice as an example, or, or women's role in, um, in preaching. A lot of the women at my church, I, but sometimes if you actually read the Bible, you will see that 2000 times, hold on a second. We got a call coming in. Okay. So, um, there's, um, so I call the Bible a sacred blood. So, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my I wanted to come back to you, Dave, on the spirituality question. Is there anything that, when I look at spirituality, I look at what spiritual people do, and I think about Gandhi and Jesus and Desmond Tutu, the Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa, and they were both involved in acts of charity and social justice. So does spirituality have anything to do with that? Absolutely. And I probably neglected to say before to point that out, is that I was very kind of general, okay, we're under control of the Holy Spirit, but of course the big issue is that what exactly are we doing? And as you mentioned, the idea that the poor, the people that are disadvantaged and so forth, we're supposed to be there for them and help them, help them reach their potential. And if everybody is able to reach their potential, everybody's going to be better off. And do you think that, how is this story relevant to our lives? I know a lot of times they have people think, oh, this story is about you're going to be healed if you just believe hard enough, and then people get sick and it doesn't really work, and then why one person, why not me? And so what does this story of these? Two women tell us about our, how is it relevant to us today? I think one of the issues here is you saw that the woman in particular, okay, even though her position in society was one that really wasn't favorable to her in terms of dealing with her own problems. She had, you know, further to go, more disadvantages, but she knew she had a problem. And she decided she just absolutely had to do something here because of her situation. And she did not let the social situation there prevent her from going out and seeking out the help she really needed. And that's always a good idea. If you've got a problem, you know, do something about it. Unfortunately, not everybody is in a position to do something about it. And that's... I think we as Christians should be there to help too. Melvin, there's been a lot of, there's a lot of issues in the community, in the homeless community here. We've had a lot of problems with police brutality and murders. But we have a whole lot of social issues, both nationally and I think since this story is about healing, maybe even the healing of a community or nation, as I said, how does our nation or community need healing? Well, you know what? I think the center point with the problem that afflicts our nation is racism. I think it goes all the way back to the slavery period. We haven't been able to adjust to that. And I would have to say it's the same kind of symbol of racism that also identify, most religious and spiritual peoples, as hypocrites. You can go all the way back to what was happening with the Samaritans, when Jesus was talking, you know, parable of the good Samaritan, whole history of Samaritans. And it always would identify a person as a hypocrite because the Scripture teach that spiritually everybody is the same. You know, Jesus, I think we talked about it the last time, when he gave us... It's the description of the Spirit. He said the Spirit is like the wind when he was talking to Nicodemus. It's invisible. You can feel the effects of it. But see, what we're dealing with today, I said, the top of the list for what's afflicting our nation is racism. See, and until we deal with that, all of these religious institutions, whether it's the same things happening with Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, you know, it's hypocritical. Until you can look at your brother and your sister and look past the outward and look inward, then it's hypocrites. That's what Jesus saw with the... That's why he was so down on a lot of the Pharisees, not all of the Pharisees, just about all of the Sadducees. So that's what's afflicting the nation. When you look at it and you see churches today, you just say here in Los Angeles, you know, Sunday, the racial element go into different directions. You got the majority black churches, the majority white churches, the majority Hispanic churches, majority Asian churches. That's hypocritical. You know, they're not practicing what the prophets taught. Prophets did not teach that. You know, so I think that's the main thing. Until we deal with that, until we can look at every human, every human being as a human being, you know, we keep going in circles. We won't make any progress. How do you think, what steps can we take in that direction? What do you think that we need to do? Well, it's simple. It's what Jesus said in John 8, 31, 32. You know, we keep coming back to that. He said to those Jews that followed him, if you continue in my words, you are my disciples indeed. You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. We're talking about spiritual liberation. So, and we're talking about truth. See? So the starting point is the teachings of the Messiah Jesus, his words. You know, that's the most important thing. It's the words of Jesus and the words of the prophets. See? And a lot of people get confused because they take a lot of the commentaries or some of the apostles. And they put an emphasis on the teachings of Jesus, and they put them on the same level, you know, like the teachings of Apostle Paul, as opposed to the teachings of the Messiah, Jesus, without understanding that Apostle Paul, is just comment, he's not a prophet, you know, he's a follower of the prophet, Messiah, see, until we come around to exactly what the Messiah, Jesus said, you know, then, we would continue to be a hypocritical nation. And for us, we have to deal with what happened with almost 300, 400 years of slavery, you know, to build up the wealth of this nation and stuff like that, where we are now, and we still got all, we got the very rich and the very poor. You can have a situation like Los Angeles, that have maybe 9 or 10% of the population of Los Angeles is African American, and then you go down the skid row, and you see 90% of African Americans land and living in the street in the most technological nation that ever existed. There's a problem there. And see, to me, the spiritual leaders, until they deal with that, they are hypocrites. Why do I say they're hypocrites? Because the Messiah Jesus said they're hypocrites, and he said that. He said, what continue in his words, stay in his words. So that's how I look at things, through his lens. I learned from church today that slavery didn't end, it just changed forms, just changed the way it's done. But coming to what Jesus said, Dad, how do you interpret this story? Is there more than just saying, wow, Jesus did these things, you know? Maybe is there... Maybe there's something, a different focus, or how do you see this scripture? Well, I really think that this has to do with the problems that women had in the society of the Jews at that time. And there's always problems where the dominant power is in the male society. And it has been, you know, for a long time in the culture of the world. And so the wife or the woman who marries is thought of as a person who is to raise children and to keep house and even to work outside the home to some extent. And to be a woman who satisfies her husband, she has to be a woman who satisfies her husband. And she has to be a woman who satisfies her husband. Especially in obedience and so forth. But this story about Jesus, healing, not healing actually, because he was ambiguous here. He said that she's sleeping, you know, that's really something else, you know. How did he know that? You know, how did he have that knowledge? And then he was real critical. I almost think that he was mocking the people who were mourning the death of this woman. Obviously, the man who the daughter was, was a very important person. And they probably were members of the synagogue too, you know. So there must have been some sincerity there. But I think he was saying something like, you don't know who is here with you in my presence. He never exalted himself, Jesus. But he wanted people to know that he had authority and power. And he would exercise that power from time to time to wake the mind up. And he would come up to the fact that he was the spiritual leader of Israel. He was the spiritual leader of the world. That he was God's son who has come in a special way to awaken the world to the true knowledge of God the Father, of Yahweh, their God. And that the nation should be, the nation Israel and the people of Israel should be a light to the world. And that the nation should be a light unto the whole world. And after the resurrection, the death and resurrection of Jesus, the church became that light to the whole world. And it enlightened everyone that this world is a temporal type of situation where adversities come our way and we can't help but getting hurt by it. From, I think that these horrible, horrible wars that we've had since the end of the second World War, of course the second World War was the most horrible event that this world has seen. And we hope we never get into a situation like that again because many nations are seeking nuclear power. And I don't think that God is going to allow this creation of the world and of the human race to actually destroy itself. I can't believe that God would allow that. Some way or another, he will come and in some way bring to us some kind of leadership or some kind of enlightenment to keep us from doing things like this. Now, the Christian church has many, many good leaders, and the other religious groups have many, many great leaders, and they're trying their best to make this world a better place and to make this world see what is truly the way of God and what is good for all humanity. But it's still not complete. But I think it's moving in that direction as painfully and as slowly and as... It's horribly sometimes that the whole society and the world society moves, you know, the struggle to get, how do you say, equality, to get a whole system of prosperity to reach all levels of society, all this, and I don't want to take too much more time on this answer, is coming about to some extent. And we do reach very, very bad times where power structures do obstruct the progress of making a just society and distributing wealth and everything else like that. I think God is, and through Jesus Christ, has been working, and the Holy Spirit has been working to that end. And you mentioned about Jesus wanting people, to know, but then he tells that at the end, no one is to know this. I mean, it's another confusing statement. Why does he say that? How did he say that? At the end he said, tell no one about this, that he raised Jairus' daughter from the dead. In Mark, there's a lot of secrecy about who he is. Raised the woman from the dead? Yes. The little girl? Yes. Well, he was trying... Remember that... Handling the crowds really became a problem. And he was really a great strain on him, too. In Mark's gospel, there's the whole issue of the messianic secret that actually God suppressed, that Jesus suppressed. Excuse me for saying God before Jesus, but that's how I believe Jesus is. He is God's son. And he suppressed this knowledge. He told his disciples not to reveal this knowledge, that he was the Messiah, the Enlightened One of God, you know? And that this would be revealed after his death and resurrection. Because you have to realize this, that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Jesus took upon himself the punishment of our sins. Each one of us, from the beginning of Adam to the end of the last man on this earth, Jesus paid it all. He paid the price for our sins. He suffered. God allowed him to be punished for our sins. And God accepts that as a full and total atonement. What those sins are may be a lot broader than just individual. We're talking about the sins of nations and to make all nations disciples. So also, now, David, what actions are you called to take? I think we're all called to do what we can in the situations where we're located. Each one of us is unique and has our own particular abilities and experiences. And relationships and so forth. And so it's incumbent on us to see what needs to be done and what we can do. And, you know, a lot of things are not really, you know, everybody wants to be the great hero and so forth. And honestly, for most of us, I think we need to be Indians rather than chiefs and take on what things we can, even if they might seem veracious. And I think that's what we need to do. And I think that's what we need to do. And I think that's what we need to do. Okay. Just do what you can where you are. And there's a lot of people in the world that spend a lot of time complaining. Okay. Or complaining doesn't get anything done. Okay. There's a, you know, it could be the start of a solution is you have to identify the problem. But then you've got to do more than just say, hey, this is a problem. It's a terrible problem. It's okay. It's what can I do? In my circumstances, in my situation. And with God's help. Okay. So open your eyes, see what needs to be done, and then start doing it. All right. Thank you. And Melvin, there's this, you know, there's a feminist idea that the personal is political, that these political situations for resistance to health care, right, these people personally without health care, the idea that, abortion is murder, leaves people without access to choice and the ability to control their own wombs. So I'm wondering how do you see these social, political, religious, and cultural institutions affect us, our daily lives? Well, a couple of things I'd like to touch on. I'd like to touch on what you're talking about when Jesus, came and he said, the girl is not dead. And I take it. That's it there because to me, Jesus was brilliant. If he, if that person was dead, he would have said, that's the same thing he said with Lazarus. See, and I think what a lot of people forget here is the fact that now they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947, right? And they have been able to identify that your real, Right. doctors of the the physicians of that time were the essenes you know with jesus being ahead of him and when something else you mentioned earlier about why he told the um um the people you know not to reveal what was happening is because um the scripture mentioned in three places that jesus was a priest after what they call the order i call it the order of melchizedek you know a lot of people call it different things but he was after that order and the meaning of that is that he was a high religious and political authority he was a high priest and he was a king that mean that he was a threat to both of the religious and political powers of that particular uh time see so jesus the knowledge that the essene had to the common person would have been like a miracle because they they had more knowledge than the pharmaceutical companies uh got now because they had it in the uh uh the pure forms see so i i just wanted to um uh mention that i don't want to take up a lot of time because i want to hear i want to hear the young lady okay have a few words okay so knowing that jesus um is said to have used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic in this or used magic healing manifestation even the prosperity gospel well thank you very much I really like this question it's it's well formed and sometimes to really get to the heart of the issue you need to ask good questions and as I'm listening to all the panel you know speak the themes that I'm hearing is you know Melvin the spirit is in the wind you can hear it you can feel it you know we're making slow progress sometimes it's painfully slow you know Jesus is battling these demons Jesus died for our sins you know but honestly I think that what it really comes down to is the connection that all of us have to each other that community that we live in that call to rise up that's in every single one of us and we look to the example of Jesus and how he used magic and how he made these statements statements among, you know, in society to wake us up, to call us. But, you know, the divinity lies in us all. It's that spirit that pervades us all. And I think that when you, you know, you talk about things like, you know, how should we approach those who practice magic, such as Wicca, mediumship, divination, faith healing, manifestation. I think that we need to approach it in the way that we should approach anything. We should look, okay, well, is their intent to do good or evil? Is their intent to help or harm? Because at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. And if their intent is to reach the spirit in their own way, then I think that we should respect that. Because even, you know, I have a pretty varied background myself, you know, my, my, on one side of my family, very, very Christian. Catholic. On the other side of my family, we have very, very strict Muslims. And, you know, growing up in that, I, I got a lot of exposure to many different cultures, many different ideas. And in Islam, they believe that there were many prophets sent to the world in all areas, because why is it fair that only one area of the world will get the true message? No, God loves all his people. We're all equal. So, you know, in Islam, we believe that there were prophets everywhere. You know, there's Adam, there's Jesus, there's Noah, there's men of God everywhere. There's Buddha, there's, there's people in India that have gotten that message, just as, as we see that there's people maybe in Wicca that have gotten the message, you know, in Japan that have gotten the message. And I think that we should respect that and realize that we all have different ways of seeing the same thing. But at the end of the day, we all have that connection to each other. And, you know, look at it, is it meant to do harm or is it meant to do good? You know, and if it is meant to do good and effect change, then respect that instead of fighting with each other, because, you know, Jesus fought the demons, right? And when we fight amongst each other, those are those demons. Those are those things within us that are coming out. Let's, let's recognize our divinity and not those demons. Amen. Now, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, a personal question, new from acting, or maybe you want to tell us about your experience with the youth authority. Yes, I spent 25 years in one institution in the youth authority and I think I was oppressed by the administration. Every time someone wants to speak out or be a whistleblower about something, or stand up against the higher powers that rule in a society, especially the police, the law enforcement forces, that they're going to be squelched, if they possibly can be. And of course, I was squelched also. And since I was trying to make a living for my family, I was squelched. And since I was trying to make a living for my family, I submitted to that. And actually, it was the riot in Berkeley that was kicked off in 1969, that led to a lot of street people along with students to riot in the streets. I was there, and I was at the place where those two men were shot, were buckshot on the roof. And my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, my friends, police and lieutenants and police authorities. And they told the institution to fire me or to suppress me, demote me, which they did finally demote me, which allowed me to continue to support my family. I had passed the parole agent tests and I was almost at the top of the list to be a parole agent. And the word went out to all the parole agent people who were hiring to say, don't hire this guy. And I had about 20 or 30 interviews and I wasn't hired. And yet I was at the top, not the whole time. I mean. I was 25th on the top, maybe of maybe 3000 people who took the test. So, but I hung in there and once they demoted me to knights, they forgot about me. And so I managed to survive. And after I'd been there a long time, you know, it was a little bit hard for them to continue to try to fire me. But they always were looking for faults in my performance. So I just feel that I'm grateful for the youth authority because there was a sort of schizophrenia in their attitude towards me. They knew that I was a good person and I was a religious person. They knew that I was doing my job, but they knew that the people felt that they couldn't trust me. Even the guys who worked there, they don't trust religious people. You know what I mean? They feel that religious people will drop a dime on them, you know? So I tried to show them that I was, you know, a decent person. And yet I tried to treat the wards decently too, you know? And in fact, when I once got into an escape attempt and was struck by one of the wards and so forth, one of the wards I had befriended on the unit was a And so I was a stuntman. And so I was a stuntman. And so I was a stuntman. And so I was a stuntman. And he was the one who was choking my co-worker and he couldn't open the door to where we could get the alarm off. And I looked at him and I said, you too? And then finally when I got the key from my co-worker and opened the door, he ran. He was the last one to leave the unit. And so there were so many things that I did that were okay and so many things that I probably did that were not too good. But, you know, I think the administration struggled to try to suppress me, first of all. They thought, I think at the end, it's best that he doesn't go to the press or to let the knowledge be known. But after 20 years, you know, it was all over. That riot had been forgotten about, you know? So there's a time. There's a time, really, when you try to speak out and it's the right time. And times when you speak out, you get squashed. So everybody watch Melvin's show Monday night, 8 o'clock? 8 o'clock. All right. And on Sunday, July 12th at 1015, I'll be speaking on democratizing the political process at All Saints Church in Pasadena. That's at 132 North Euclid Avenue, right behind City Hall. Corporate money and other special interests have had undue influence in California's elections for years. When the Supreme Court made its infamous decision in Citizens United, it unleashed unlimited amounts of corporate and other spending on campaigns, making things even worse. Learn about the California Disclosed Act, Assembly Bill 700, a legislation effort underway that would require major funders of elections to be disclosed in campaign ads. And if you're interested in learning more about the! Don't give up the fight. Get up, stand up. Stand up for your right. Get up, stand up. Don't give up the fight. Most people think great God will come from the sky. Take away everything and make everybody feel high. But if you know what life is, you know what life is. You would look for yours unhurt. And now when you see the light, you stand up for your right. Get up, stand up. Stand up for your right. Get up, stand up. Don't give up the fight. Life is your right. Get up, stand up. We can't give up the fight.