Interview with sitcom writer Lori Kimbrough

I'm Vic Cohen and it's a fair question. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen and it's a fair question. It's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen. Hello, this is Vic Cohen and it is always a fair question here on the show. Right here, basically, there's never going to be a question. The rules are they're ever too personal. No question that's ever too personal or ever off limits. And today I have a friend here who I am so excited to have on the show. Years ago when I first moved out here, shortly after I moved out here, I was interested in learning about sitcom writing. And this woman was my teacher. And then we kind of lost track of each other. And then we reunited on Facebook and it was magical. And then we had lunch last, about two weeks ago. And I invited her to be my teacher. And I invited her to be a guest on my podcast because I thought you guys would love spending some time with her. And I knew that I would as well. She is Lori Kimbrough. Kimbrough, how are you? Hi, I'm good, thank you. Let me describe you to those who aren't watching because we have a video version and then an audio version. You have purple hair. Sweeped over the right side of your head. You are purple glasses. Any more purple? No. My phone case. You have style. Yeah. And we, I always will thank you for that class. And I had a spec script that was a Larry David Curp spec and you were very helpful. And I remember when we had lunch a week or two ago, it was two weeks ago or maybe even three. I said, do you remember the script? Just sure that you just were so blown away and wowed. And you're like, no. But once you told, once you reminded me, I remembered the Moyle. Yeah. The premise was that Larry David from Curb Your Enthusiasm ends up having to hold the baby. And he does something that ends up causing the Moyle, the guy who does the bris, the cutting of the foreskin, to cut the whole penis off pretty much. That's what I thought the penis got cut off. I wasn't sure. A big part of it. Yeah. So, you know, I. True story, by the way. You forgot to tell her that. Yeah, that's right. Except it was my penis. Yeah. No, but I ended up really not doing much of the script. I mean, I used it as a sample, but I ended up doing some other kind of writing, but it was still just such a great experience. So, you, your big, your credits, you know, they really run the gambit. For those of you who don't know Lori, her first breakout job as a writer was on The Cosby Show. And we have to talk about that. Now, you were not a writer prior to that. Is that correct? No. Prior to that, I worked at the phone company. The LA phone company. The LA phone company. Not just any phone company. Yeah, not just any phone company. It's for you always. Yeah. What were you doing at the phone company? I started out as a telephone installer, which today is not that big of a deal. It's very butch. At that time, they didn't have any female telephone installers. You were going into people's homes. Yes. And climbing under their basements and going up, I mean, crawling under basements, climbing up telephone homes. You're an attractive woman. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And I'm sure that you probably had some men who were very excited to have you in their home. No, it was just the opposite. This was in 19... In 19, I don't want to say, but there were no women doing that. And the reason the phone company had to hire women is because they lost a lawsuit with the EEOC. What's EEOC? Oh, okay. Equal Opportunity Employment. Whatever. Whoever. Yeah. And so they had to hire women in those jobs. So there were 10 of us that went through a training class and they hired, I think, seven of us. And you were the only straight one. I may... No. Well, there wasn't a little Asian girl who dropped out. Okay. Her boyfriend didn't want her to do it. Really? He was worried about her? I guess. But it was just the opposite. The guys were vicious because back then, the attitude was, you're taking a job away from a man with a family. Oh, absolutely. I would love having you. I mean, you know. I would have loved having me too, but it was really tough. You had to fight your way and you really had to gain respect. Yeah. Which really helped me a lot later on as a writer because most of the rooms that I worked in were all men. So little did you know it was preparing you. Yeah, little did I know. But you know what? The universe has a plan for everybody. Were you... So you were literally like putting those little boxes in the walls and stuff and the wiring? Yeah. That's so technical. I know. This was before you just bought a phone and plugged it in. Do you know how to do that now? Oh, yeah. Like if I need some help, I could call you? If you need some help, I'm not versed in psychology or anything. Not like that kind of help, although I do need that as well. So you're working at a phone company on your hands and knees. That sounds salacious, didn't it? Yeah, it did. Yeah. I think I did that on purpose. You may have. You just wanted to get a visual in your head. I know. Suddenly I'm hitting on you. I've said you're attractive. I know. I know. I'm loving it. Yeah, well. I haven't heard that in ever. Two minutes. Now, I'm sure you heard a lot. Now, when you got... Like what... What was the transition from... Now, I understand you from just doing the research on you, your dream was to be a playwright. Yeah. Is that still your dream? No. Okay. No. But you were taking a playwright... I wasn't taking any classes. Okay. I took some classes, some writing, script writing classes at Rio Hondo College. And then... Because I didn't know where to go. Where is that? Okay, now I got to back up. What is Rio Hondo? Is that a city? It's like in Whittier someplace near Whittier. Okay. I got to back up. I didn't... I knew I wanted to do something with my life and the phone company wasn't it, but I didn't know what. And so I went to the doctor for a reason and had to have surgery. And so I made a promise that if I lived through this surgery, I was going to dedicate my life to doing something. Other... Other than just working for the phone company. So I lived through the minor surgery. It was a minor surgery? Yeah. It was a minor surgery. Yeah. So I started looking for something to do. Well, my husband at the time was going to Cal State Dominguez and it was a catalog. So I was looking around and there was a course for script writing. And so I said, oh, you know what? I could talk. Maybe I could write. So I signed up for the course and they dropped it because only two people signed up. Well, I thought I was on to something, Vic. I thought I live in Los Angeles, Hollywood. And only two people signed up. People want to learn how to write. Shit. Can I curse? Yeah. This is... I can't believe that I found this. So I was on a mission then. I had to find a class in screenplay writing. So you thought that there just weren't a lot of people pursuing it? Yeah, because... So there'd be a lot of openings? Right. Right. So... Well, there are in Dominguez or wherever. I didn't know that. Right. I didn't know that at all. You know, nobody told me about that. But, you know, sometimes stupidity does help. So I started looking for classes and I found a class at Rio Hondo College. And at that time, I was a manager at the phone company. So I transferred to the Alhambra office so that I could be close to Rio Hondo. And I applied there. And I started taking a class. And I didn't know anything about anything. I didn't know the format, nothing. But I got so much encouragement from the teacher. You know, he said, you're really going to be good at this. You should stick with it. How many were in this class? I don't remember. You know, this was probably before you were born. I doubt it. So I took that class. And then from taking that, I started talking to people. And they were saying, well, you know, if you really want to take some good classes, you should go to UCLA and take classes there. So I went to UCLA and I took some classes and I met more people. And so I met this one girl who was in a writer's workshop. And she said, you should join our workshop. I think you'd really get a lot out of it. So I joined the workshop. At that time, the guy who was running, the workshop only took former students of his. But for some reason, he liked me. So he told me that I could be in his workshop. Was there an appetite for female writers then? Or were you still getting that kind of resistance that you had in the phone company? I didn't know. I didn't know what the appetite was. You know, I found out later that at that time, there was an appetite for black female comedy writers, very specifically. I don't know. I don't know whether it was because... Which you happen to be. By chance. The shoe polish didn't wear off. But I don't know whether it was because nobody ever gave us a voice or whether there really weren't any. I assume there really weren't any because that's what people were telling me at the time. Well, wasn't, I mean, like getting even beyond before that, when there were black sitcoms, there was an argument. I heard like, why is it about a lot of white guys writing? Or these sitcoms like the Jeffersons or What's Happening? Or these 70s sitcoms. You know, why isn't there a black voice in the room? I don't know if you've ever heard that. Oh, well, once or twice. So that's a common idea. And it still is a common idea. I think there are several reasons for it. One, I think that those voices, those white male, mostly Jewish voices, thought maybe that they knew a lot. They thought more about the black culture than they did. They certainly had more of an in with the networks and the studios than blacks did. And I think a certain level of it was comfort. I think a lot of those guys didn't know any blacks, you know, maybe other than the ones that worked for them in their homes. And I think people tend to hire people that they're comfortable with. Mm-hmm. And also, you know, if you have a black person, if you have a black person in the room, it cuts off a lot of your comedy. If your comedy, if you're working on a black show, if your comedy is, you know, making fun sometimes. If you don't want to offend. Right. You know, and so I think some of it was that, too, not being comfortable. I've worked in rooms where guys didn't want me in the room because they said we're not comfortable talking around a female because she'll be offended. And I thought, shit, I can offend any fucking person in the room. But, you know, there's just that. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. There's been that. So there's probably, as a woman, you kind of have to prove your, what, your balls, your masculinity, in a sense. Like you're one of the guys. Yeah. You couldn't be offended at every little thing that somebody says. Well, it's different rules. You know, things do get, have gotten so litigious and politically correct. But I think in a writer's room, it's hard to have that. If you're just, oh, you want to have open creativity. Well, you know, years ago, there was a writer's assistant on Friends. that sued them because they were telling sexist jokes in the room. And, you know, it's almost impossible. Writers are, comedy writers, we're funny. We like to take jokes. You know, somebody says a joke, somebody else builds on it. Well, that doesn't just include the jokes that you tell when you're writing. It's the jokes you tell in the room. Yeah, yeah. It's not a good place if you're oversensitive. No, no. But it's a great place if you want a good laugh. It is. Yeah. It is. So you are writing, you're doing these workshops or this last workshop you were invited to from the teacher who usually doesn't, he only brings in former students. He made an exception. And then you, I understand you wrote like a Golden Girls. Yeah. That people seem to really like and someone brought that to their agent. Is that correct? The guy who ran the writer's room, John Herman Shainer, I call him my rabbi. John took it to his agent who was then Robinson Weintraub and Gross. Okay. That was the name of the agent. See, they since got, they merged with somebody else. Anyway, and Bernie Weintraub was the comedy agent there and he read it and called me. We spoke on the phone. He brought me in for a meeting and he said, I'm going to represent you. And is it true that within nine months you had a job? I think it was less than nine months. I don't remember exactly. You know, it was a long time ago. And this was on the Cosby Show. Yeah. So. At this point, what season of the show was that? That was the sixth season. So it was already a mega hit. Oh, yeah. And then just a reminder, all of you listening and watching, the Cosby Show was monumental in many ways. And one of the biggest ways is it kind of brought back the sitcom. It did. Because the sitcom was kind of a dying form. So it brought back the sitcom and then it had a African-American family, which really had never been done. I don't think ever. In that respect, it was. I mean, they had shows like Good Times. I mean, they're pleased. They had shows like that. Or professionals or doctors. Which was a lot, very controversial, even in the black community. Because a lot of blacks said, oh, you know, I don't know anybody like that. That's not really who black families are and what they're like. And it's exactly what a lot of black families are and a lot of what they're like. But the people with the loud voices apparently didn't know any of those. It was an important show because, not to get too racial here, but we are so segregated in so many ways that a lot of people's experience with race is just what they see on television. So if everything isn't represented, then. Which is also why that was so groundbreaking. Because before that, we saw things like Good Times and the Facts of Life. Well, the Facts of Life wasn't a black show. Well, we had the Jeffersons, which was an answer to the people saying, all you're showing are people living in a slum or public housing. Okay, he's moving on to the east side. There's your answer. Which a lot of people thought that was a stretch, too. Yeah. Blacks weren't really that way. Well, and. It's, you know, I think it's foreign to me because I can't imagine. You grew up in a metropolitan area. No, I didn't. I grew up in a very suburban. It was all white. We had one black guy and he called himself Bubba. It's true. It's true. I don't know why he just rode up his bike in the neighborhood and he said, I'm Bubba. And you know what? It's like I really lost out. Yeah. Because I would have, I wish, and one of the things I love about Los Angeles, you know, prior to moving out here, I was a TV reporter in Macon, Georgia. And that for me was just unbelievably awesome because it was so integrated, you know. I mean, Chicago is known as being very segregated. You know, the city, there's the big freeway, the Dan Ryan. And on one side is the south side. And some believe that Daly, the older Daly from like the 60s and 70s, built that or that it was built, whenever it was built, to keep black people on one side of the road. It's kind of like the other side of the tracks thing. Kind of, yeah. The wrong side of the tracks. But where I grew up, it was just very, just white. There was no racism because there was. There was no race. Yeah. You know, but as an adult, that is what's so awesome about living out here, you know, is because Los Angeles is so, just a great melting pot. Now, before we get into like your experience on Cosby, so you have a New York accent. Still, you do sound like you're from New York, but all we've heard about so far is you living in Los Angeles. You grew up in New York? I grew up in New York. Okay. And when do you, and how old were you when you came out here? I came out here when I was 23, I think, or 24. Was that to be with a guy or? No, no, I bought a guy with me. I came out here because I married a guy who came from a very large family, seven kids, and everybody in his family married somebody that they grew up with, except him. So I was the real outsider. And I wasn't really accepted. They thought that I was putting on airs, that I thought I was all that, air quotes for those. Do you think you were all that? No, I was just being me. You have a personality. I didn't grow up ghettoized, you know, I mean. Oh, okay. I didn't, I mean, where I grew up, I didn't know that there was, you know, that there were ghetto type people. I didn't know. I just, this is who I am. Do you think that, just real quick, I'm just curious. Do you think there's as much racism within the black community about the black community as there is among white and blacks? I don't know. Because it sounds like they're like, they're like, from what you're describing. Well, yeah, but I'm talking about 100 years ago. Right. Is that not existent anymore? I don't know. But I will say this. I think there's always, and not just in the black community, but in a lot of communities, there's always a situation where you have, if you have people who are doing a little bit better, who are amongst people. There's always going to be people who are not doing as well. There's always going to be those people that want to denigrate the people who are doing better. Because even though the people that are doing better are doing better because of hard work, the people that aren't don't see the hard work. They just see, oh, you're trying to be better than us. So you met this guy, your husband. I met my husband. In New York. I met him on my birthday in April. We got married in June. What day in April is your birthday? 11th. 11th. And we got married on June 28th. That quickly? That quickly. Are you? I'm someone who's like overly romantic. Were you codependent? Were you addicted to love? What was going on? No, I just, you know what? I've always wanted to marry somebody that I didn't know that well because I was young and stupid. Now they have Tinder. Perfect for you. This is my reasoning. I don't think they get married on Tinder though. It's set up housekeeping. But I always thought then that the reason most marriages didn't work out is because people changed. And so you looked at the pre-marriage person. And you thought you're not the way you were when we got married. So I thought if I marry somebody I don't know that well, I'll eliminate that. I won't know that they've changed because I didn't know them that well before. Okay. But that's an interesting strategy. It didn't really work though. Right? It worked except that I didn't really know anything about marriage beyond that concept. You know, I didn't know that about the give and the take. Were you a good wife? A good partner? I would say I wanted to be but I don't think I was. I think I was very selfish. Do you think what you know now, if you knew then, you'd still be married to that guy? I would like to think that I would be but I still know him. I mean, and who he is now and who I am now, I don't think we would have... Okay, let's be honest. It's me. Okay. It's me. I didn't want to say anything. We had to get the awkwardness out of the room. So... So you guys are friends? Yeah, we're still friends. Yeah. So when you were in New York, did you go to college out there or...? I didn't even finish high school. So you're now on a major, like the biggest sitcom in the history of sitcoms. Isn't that upper tier of like I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners? I mean, it really is seminal and... It was big. Yeah. And you don't even have a high school diploma? Well, I had a GED. You know, let's not... Let's not denigrate the GED. But how did... Yes, that's good. For all you folks out there that have GEDs. Did you get the GED in New York? No, I got it here. So you've... I mean, that's really going against the odds, correct? It is. And you know what? I was having this Facebook kind of heated discussion with somebody about... It started with the $15 an hour and he said, I don't think somebody who didn't go to college should make the same as a college... I mean, I'm a college graduate. And I said, I don't think everybody's cut out to go to college. I don't think everybody needs to go to college. I said, I didn't go to college. And you know, I make more money than the average college person. And I said, I don't have any student debt. You know, I think I made out pretty good on that one. Why didn't you go to college? I wasn't interested in it. Again, so remember, I didn't know what I wanted to do and I thought it'd be a waste of time going to college with no idea of what I wanted to do. But that's the whole point often. Yeah, but I didn't know that. But now I do know that you... But I would like to get more specific information about this because I'm not quite clear. When we had our lunch a few weeks, three weeks ago, you said that you didn't know your parents or you didn't have a relationship. Explain that. Well, I was put into foster care by whoever my mother was at the time. You've never met her? No, I've never met her. You don't know her name? I don't know her name. I do know her name. Well, I know a name that was on my birth certificate, my original birth certificate. What's the name? I think it was Marie Cook or Marie Kimbrough. You never wanted to research it more? I did for a minute. When I first got my birth certificate, I did. And then the thought came upon me that I was born in Harlem Hospital. I probably was born to... And I know that my mother wasn't married. So I was probably born to somebody of limited means. And I thought, one of these days I'm going to be rich and I don't want these people coming after me. No, that's not true. That is true. It's partially true. It is partially true. There's nothing wrong with that thought. It's an honest human thought. I didn't think I was going to be rich. I just thought whoever these people were... You don't want these freeloaders knocking on your door. I don't want these freeloaders coming after me. They dropped you off at the hospital after that. Exactly. And later on, I could have been angry, but I decided not to. Because when you put a kid in foster care, they're not adoptable. You can't adopt them. Now I think if you've been in foster care for a certain amount of time and there's no parental visits or something, you probably can be adopted. I think there's a statute of limitations where their legal rights to you goes away. Yeah. And at that time, they didn't have that. I never once saw this woman. She never once contacted the agency to find out where I was or anything like that. So I felt like she gave up on me and she didn't even know what I was going to be. Right. I pretty much had an idea what she was. So it was easy to give up on her. Your foster care, where are you living during that time? What does that look like? I lived with a family in Queens. Okay. And it was a really good family. My father- White, black? A black family. At that time, I don't know how many cross-pollinization there was of adopting. But it was a good family. My father was a musician and an aircraft mechanic. You called him dad? Yeah. Oh yeah. Until he died, I called him dad when I was like seven. So you were with this family until you left LA? No, I was with this family until my father died. He died of a heart attack. He died of cancer when I was about seven or eight. Oh my God. And at that time, I was a ward of the city. And the city had a rule that single people could not have foster children. So your mother couldn't keep you. Yeah, so she couldn't keep me. They took me out of that home and put me in another home. And then it started a long line of going to different homes. How many other families were you with? I was with, I think, three group homes and two... I don't know. Three different families and three group homes and a hospital stay. Okay. So how are you not a recovered drug addict, alcoholic, prostitute, criminal? Self-respect. Where did that come from? It came from, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, that's a lot of trauma. I just... I just saw people in the street that I knew I didn't want to be. And so I wasn't them. And I don't know where because the brother, I call him my brother, that I was raised with did become a drug addict. The one in Queens with the father who died when you were seven? Yes. I don't know where it comes from. But I always knew that one day I was going to be somebody. And by somebody, I mean... I was going to have a decent job. I was going to have a decent family. I was going to live a decent life. You don't have children. Is that correct? No. So when you say a decent family, who is your family right now? Well, right now it's my dog, Edna. Who you were supposed to bring. Who I was supposed to bring, but she would be all over this place. Yeah. It's probably best. Yeah. So because you do know, like, I mean, did you ever have... Did you ever dabble in drugs or... Well, I... I was a drug addict. I was a drug addict. I was a drug addict. I was a drug addict. Permiscuity? Permiscuity? Permiscuity? future maybe that's why I didn't do it maybe it was too perfect to set up it maybe it was too easy to fall into that trap was there a role model or a mentor you had in your life that kept you straight Julia wasn't on TV yet so so then so you've just are you religious do you feel like there's someone I just realized you were so fucking easy to talk to you're asking me questions there are people that have known me for years that don't know any of this about really oh that's nice good I don't tell people this is that often and I've told it to you now partially the other day and now what's interesting to you is well it is to me you know because it's because I think what's interesting often I think when we come to stories and the biggest I'm always fascinated by I think we're human beings I'm a human being and I'm a human being and I'm a human being and I'm a human being I'm my biggest obstacle it's not out there yeah people think it's all out there but really it's the way I think at times and I think we all have these things in our heads some more than others and I just I love it's interesting to me because you know there are a lot there are a lot of people who have these inner battles yeah that they could blame you know like if they're an addict or I mean the there it would make sense that you would run well you know what because I didn't have anybody in my life I didn't have anybody to play you know I could have been of it you could still you know it's just a choice sometimes I don't know what it is because it could be genetics maybe you inherited some positive some genetics in there those people you never know no you don't but whatever it is I'm thankful for it yeah I didn't fall down you get depressed oh I have been depressed in my life yeah I don't know what it is I'm not depressed yeah in like but in a way that clinically depressed no there are times when I feel like oh I'm not doing anything with my life or I wasted a lot of time you minimize your accomplishments I do I do I do that I minimize your accomplishments all the way yeah yeah yeah I do that and it's really if I meet people and they say oh my goodness I can't believe you've done all of that and they say done what I mean you know well you got the first person who's done any of those things well the other thing is the credits are great and they're fun and they really interest people but you know they're not like your whole life yeah if you're on a show for a year or two it's impressive but you got to keep moving you got to keep you know looking and doing I won yeah yeah you're right and um so this is you can't rest on your laurels but it's also I think there has to be some self-appreciation too because otherwise the life's just too painful to not also appreciate yeah yeah appreciate what you what you would what you've been given and what you've worked for. Yeah. I mean, you did work for this stuff. I did, yeah, but I meant in terms of, you know, there are people, and I think I'm, you might have heard me say this in class, there are people who are a lot more talented than I would ever be. There are people who are a lot prettier than I am. There are people who are a lot more successful than I am. But, you know, it's a crapshoot. You know, sometimes you, you know, the ball lands on your number, and sometimes it doesn't. What I've been working on when I'm unhappy with life is I try to go, instead of thinking about getting caught up and maybe feeling down or whatever my unhealthy thinking may be, I go, what are you going to do about it? Yeah. Because it's much, that's proactive. Yeah. And that's going to create something versus just thinking about stuff. Yeah, because you're the only one that could change it. You know, you might go around telling people you're unhappy, and maybe somebody might give you a hand up. Maybe, maybe. Maybe, not usually. People don't, you know, it's not attractive. You're the only person that's going to be able to make the change. Yeah, and I think... And sometimes the change is you. You know, you have to change something about yourself. And I think too often when things don't go the way we wish, we start feeling a little bit sorry for ourselves instead of looking back and saying, wait a minute, I was, I did this, and I did this, and I did this. I ought to be able to do that too. I can do that too. Minimizing, I think. Yeah, then you start doing it. Yeah. And I think I particularly find in the creative world that we live in that mental health is really important because... I think the crazier you are, the more creative you get. Well, yeah, that's true too. And I think it probably does help. Yeah. I think thinking outside the box, which was an expression I heard for like in the last maybe 20 years, people say that all the time. And I never knew what it meant until somebody explained to me once that I always think outside the box. So to me, it's normal. Right. But then I see other people and I think, oh, yeah, they are really thinking outside the box. With your brother, foster brother, you said, did you say he OD'd? Or he's just an addict? No, I said he's probably dead by now. You don't have any interest in finding him? No. Because you're afraid he'd want money? No, not for that. The last time I saw him, though, he did want money. And how much did he get? Nothing. You know, no, not for that reason. I just, we have nothing in common. You know. See, here's where I think that perhaps, and I could be way off the mark here, where it might be, you might have had some challenges growing up or being an adult from that background. Although it's not always a prescription for this issue. But is it hard for you to be intimate in the sense of being vulnerable and letting someone really get to know you because you've never had that? You don't know what, you've never, unless through your marriage, I know you've been married twice, maybe perhaps from our earlier conversation. So perhaps you had some unconditional love then. But if you never saw that as a child in front of you through grown adults, you don't know what that looks like. And you don't know what it's perhaps like to feel. So is that a challenge? I wouldn't say it's a challenge for me, but it might be a challenge for someone who was in a relationship with me. Ha ha ha. Um. Ha ha ha. You know, I think the trust issue, I mean, and I think about this occasionally because I'm not sure what establishing trust looks like with a person. And I often wonder if I were, if I would be more open to somebody if I trusted them more. And it's just recently that I realized that I had trust issues in relationships. Why wouldn't you? Because I... I mean, of course. Yeah, but I mean, I don't think that way. So... It's a very, you know, they say that a child in those first few weeks or, you know, years, there's so much that's just set like, I mean, I don't want to say like stone, but, you know, there's a lot of bonding. Yeah, but also remember, until I was about seven or eight, I had a very, very loving home. So maybe that's what saved you. Yeah, and maybe that's what saved me. And you did have unconditional love. Yeah, I did. Well, I don't know about from my mother. Ha ha ha. The father. I think she liked my brother more. Ha ha ha. Okay, but... I remember I used to say to myself, I said, why did he have to die? You know? Ha ha ha. He had to be the one. He liked me better. So with the Cosby thing, you know, like that was your big break. You're out at your... Working at the film company. Next thing you know, you're flying to New York. I imagine you've got this top agent who probably got you a deal. They're going to fly you out, I'm guessing. Oh, yeah. Now, was Bill Cosby your mentor? He was in a lot of ways. Um, he was very, very instrumental in helping my career. In terms of when you, when you first, when you get your first job on a show, you generally are hired for a period of time. And then there's an option. Well, actually all shows. Then there's an option and they have the, the, um, the option of picking up your option for additional time or not. So my option was 12 weeks. And at the end of the 12 weeks, I asked the guys who were running the show at the time. I said, uh, you know, well, my 12 weeks are up. You know, today's... It's my last day. You know, what's, what's going to happen? And they said, well, we don't make that decision. They make that decision. And the show was in New York. They make the decision out in California, the production company, Carsey Werner. So I said, oh, well, I don't know. So I went back to my office. The last day? You still don't know? So I went back to my office and I'm sitting there and I'm watching the live feed on television because we were recording the show that night. And my agent called and he said, congratulations. They're picking up your option. I was like, yeah. Yes. Yeah. I was so excited. So I ran down to the control booth where the guys were. And I said, guys, guess what? They picked up my, my option is picked up. And you, I mean, those guys' faces fell down to the floor. They were not happy. No, they, yeah, they were beyond not happy. I didn't know then that they were the ones that had, that, that decided whether my option got picked up. And they said they didn't want to pick up my option. But Bill called and said, I'm picking up her. I want her option picked up. Now he was a part owner of the show as well as one of the. That's hilarious. And so the guys didn't, didn't know. They were, they were in shock. Isn't that uncomfortable to, when you see that reaction, to know that you're basically have an entire staff or met much of the staff against you? No, it wasn't. It was, there were only three of them. No, but because they were against me from the very beginning, you know, so I wasn't surprised, but I did believe them when they said that the decision wasn't, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't, it was a mistake. I didn't have any desires to make because they didn't hire me. I was hired by the Carsey Werner company. Okay. I went through the IMDB credit list and there are 50 credited writers slash producers. And of that, 20 some are women. And I found that to be a pretty high number. Does that surprise you? On that show? Yeah. Over the course of that series. Yeah. Now, most of the, most of the episodes are written by men. Yeah. You know, we, some of the ladies on the bottom, on the list had maybe two episodes. Also, some of those producers were, worked for the production company, not, you know, from Carsey Werner. So you wouldn't count them as. Yeah, they, they were producers in name, but. Okay. And then we also, the producers on the production side, the writer producers were one kind of producer and then the production producers were. So it's not exactly accurate. Yeah, so they weren't all writers. They were. I got it. Okay. But nevertheless, it's still pretty impressive. There are a lot of women, but also Marcy, Carsey, right? She is a woman. Yeah. So there was a lot of openness towards, but on that show, because it was a family show, was there, were they looking for female writers? Do you think? I think they were always looking for, well, Bill was always looking for female writers because there were a lot, mostly female voices on the show. You know, there was Felicia and then there were the daughters. Now, was his wife around a lot? No, she came, she came to tapings sometimes. But she didn't hang out there. You were on two seasons, correct? Yeah. 90 and 91? Is that right? I think 89 and 90. Now, what made you want to leave? Or was it just time? Sometimes it's just time. No, they didn't pick up my option in the last season. And were you devastated? I wasn't exactly devastated because there were a couple of things that happened and the writer producers, the writers room sort of got divided. And my loyalty was to some of the writers there and not others, the executive producer and one of the other writers. And there was some bad blood. And I said, well, if they don't pick up your option, I'm not coming back. You said that publicly? No, I said that to these two. So they didn't pick up, their options weren't picked up. So I went down, I went to the writers room, I went down to resign. And when I went down to resign, I was told before I could say I'm not coming back, I was told we're not asking you back. So that's how I... Do you regret having made that choice? No. Even though it was... No, because I was fired anyway. But isn't there a possibility you were let go because of your alliance with these two? No, no, no. I was let go because the writers that were taking over the show didn't want me on the show. The problem is... The politics in a writer's room, is navigating that as important as actually being funny? I think it depends on what you hope to gain from it. I would say on some shows, it's very political. And I've worked on shows where there were no politics involved. Everybody there was there for the show and the paycheck. Or if it was political, I didn't notice it. When it came to the Bill Cosby thing with the sexual story, that thing just doesn't go away. Like yesterday... I know, I just read something. There were three more people. So now I think it's up to 49 women saying that they were molested or assaulted. What are your thoughts about that, having worked... And also with him being a mentor of sorts. Well, I can't speak for those 49 women. I don't know. All I could say is that I never saw that side of Bill. He never made any advances towards me. He never gave me a drug. He was always a gentleman in my presence. So that's all I could say about him. Were you shocked when you... I was beyond shocked. I was in disbelief. And, you know, a part of me is still a little disbelieving. You know, not that these women are lying, but just that I can't fathom that happening. Thank you. Thank you. Being a little psychological. Yeah. You didn't really have a father. Up to seven you did, but your biological father essentially abandoned you. And then you didn't have... Did you think you looked at him as a father? Not at all. Why do you laugh? Because it's insane? I looked at him like an employer. You know, he was my boss. So he wasn't like... He was a mentor, but he wasn't someone who was confiding in you. No, no. Our relationship was purely professional. Always. And do people ask you about your opinions on this or have they? People have. And most of the time I've said I don't have a comment. I've had a couple of reporters call and I have no comment. I don't think I have anything to add to the conversation that hasn't been said before. Yeah, it's... I think when we were talking at lunch, I was asking you about, like, if there's... loyalty, is it hard because of the fact he gave you a job? And also because you being a black woman and then this is a sex story, and then feeling like you don't really feel you have to defend anything, right? No. And you know what? My loyalty to Bill is based on our professional relationship, not based on what he did outside of the job. Because I don't know any of that. Do you believe it more now? You don't know what... I don't know. But I will say this. The three women that came forward, I saw Gloria Allred sitting in the background, which always makes me suspicious. Yeah. And maybe I shouldn't have said that out loud, but what the hell? Yeah. Well, you went on to do two other shows, at least, that were African-American themed. Yeah. Right? Did you ever get concerned? Actually, we have four. Four? There was Single Life. There was Homeboys. There was Living Single, Homeboys and Out of Space, and Where I Live, which was a show that I really loved that they never gave the audience a chance. They bounced us around different days. You know, if they could have put us on different networks, they probably would have. What do you think about Cosby reruns being taken off the air by the two... There are two cable networks that have stopped running, TV Land and Centric TV are no longer running. What's Centric TV? I think it has something to do with BET, but I read that. I think it was... I can't remember where I read that, but it was an article online. Well, you know, I would say that the airwaves belong to the public, and I think that anybody who broadcasts over public airwaves, they have a certain responsibility to the people. And if that... If what's going on there is deemed not decent, I think that, you know, they have the right to take it off their networks. You know, they don't want to get sued, or they don't want to go through a lot of unpleasantness. I don't know how they could get sued. I don't know either, but you know what, the Parents Television Council who sues everybody for everything. I don't know, but I mean, it's their network. It's our airwaves, their network. They can put whatever they want on there. I'm sorry I won't be getting residuals anymore. Well, I was going to ask you about that. I mean, has that been... Even today, it's years later, are you still getting nice checks? Up until a couple of months ago, I was. Not nice. I was getting checks. You know, we're not going to... Those of you who think I have money to burn, I don't. Well, so there's a little bit of a financial hit, but it's not as if... Well, you know what? I'm still going to eat. You know, I... I was not sustaining my lifestyle with those checks. Now, what are you working on now? Now, I'm... I have a reality show that I've been pitching with a partner, and that's what I'm doing now. Do you find a common theme is like there's ageism in sitcom writing in particular? Do you find that to be true, or what's been your experience around that? I think there is a component of it, but I think that Hollywood... Hollywood is moneyism. If you could make money for them, they'll hire you. What's the reality show? I mean, without... I know you can't share everything, but is this like a personality-driven reality show? It's like a docu-soap. So it's not the Kardashians, but it's kind of like that kind of... No. It's a... Well, it's a home... Sort of a home decorating, renovating show with a docu-soap component. Okay. And docu-soap meaning kind of like a Kardashian storyline where we follow someone's... I would say more like a Jeff Lewis storyline. Who's Jeff... Is he the real estate... I don't know, Jeff Lewis. Yeah, he's the designer that has a show on Bravo. Oh, okay. And he... I think he runs a design business out of his home, and he's got people working for him, but he also... His personal life comes into the show as well. See, to me, that sounds so boring compared to like writing on a sitcom. Am I just... Is it just me, and are you excited about it? I've never done it before. I've never done it before. So I don't know how... If or how boring it's going to be. How have you seen TV change? I mean, it's obvious a lot of the changes since Cosby. I mean, it feels like, you know, from radio to television, like the amount of change with the internet. And how are you preparing for the changes in media? I'm lying in bed with a cover over my head. And a pickle on my nightstand. No, um... A pickle? Yeah, I don't know. What are you doing with the pickle? I don't know. I've never heard that expression. When my life goes sour, there's always something more sour. I don't know. I'm not so much really preparing for it. You know, I'm not looking to get back into the sitcom world. I would love it if somebody called me up and said, hey, you know, we need a voice like yours. But if nobody does, I'm not going to be crushed by it or upset by it. In terms of how... In terms of how television has changed, one of the things that I do like is that we're doing more single-camera stuff. Because the laugh track is probably the most annoying television invention ever. Did you hate it? Wasn't it on Cosby or no? It was on all the multi-camera shows back then. Yeah. What they did was, you know, you had a live audience and the audience laughed in certain places and you would, what they call, sweeten. They would sweeten the laughter if it wasn't big enough or, um... If it wasn't big enough, you know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... You know, you'd have to... If they felt like something needed a laugh but nobody laughed. Because I guess at that time we thought the audience wasn't smart enough to know what was funny. Because this is great stuff. They just don't get it. Yeah, so they would, you know, yeah. They wouldn't laugh and we'd be like, hey, we stayed up all night on that joke. And it was funny at 3 a.m. Right. And so they would sometimes, they'd say, you know, put a little tickle under that line. A tickle. I didn't like that. I didn't like... Just like I don't like the certain aspects of Steven Spielberg. I don't like the certain aspects of Steven Spielberg's movies where they direct you with music. Oh, right. You know, it always annoys me. That's interesting. Let me have my own emotion. Let me have my own, you know, I don't want you to tell me how I should feel. What sitcoms, do you watch any sitcoms currently? I watch a sitcom. I think it's on TBS. Is it... You know what? I tell people this sitcom all the time and I just forgot the name of it. Cutting? It's about... It's written by the guys that did Will and Grace. And it's set in a barbershop. And it's really funny. It's, you know, it's sort of like a throwback to the old sitcoms, but it's funny. I like the characters, which is what I like about television. I like the characters on a show. What about like Mike and Molly? Well, that's again your laugh track. And I don't relate to those characters. I think Melissa McCartney is beyond talented. But I don't relate to those characters. Is there any envy for, let's say, you know, one of the characters, I don't know a lot of characters, but one of the guys that was on your staff, I believe, was Ed Weinberger. He wasn't on my season, though. Okay. Because I was curious about him because he's a legend. On all those old Mary Tyler Moore's, you always saw that guy's name. Now, are there any people who went on from those writers' rooms to become mega millionaires? And is there any envy when that happens? I, for myself, no. You know, but there was, well, there's Greg Garcia, who was, his first job was on, what was the name of that show with the smallettes? Well, his big sitcom was the one, like the Hicks, those people. I'm forgetting the name of it. No, but he's got, Greg's, he's got a sitcom on every year. I mean, Greg went on to, he had just graduated. And he was working with you? Yeah, he just graduated from the Warner Brothers writing program. And he was very young. I mean, he's gone on to make a big, big splash in television. And there's no envy in there? No, you know what? Greg was talented. He, you know, he worked hard. He deserved it. What about the stories you hear? I'll hear about a sitcom writer who just took off. And then, you know, the business got shut down. the business got shut down. The business got smaller. They lost their house. And they got out of the business. I've heard lots of stories like that. Have you? That was sort of tailing off when I got into television. I don't know any people who were in that situation. That's good. So you have no... Other than myself. Well, is the reason you have no interest because there's no, well, not that you said you had no interest, but like you don't have a sitcom in you that you would like to get done? Sure, I have a whole bunch of them. But, you know, I'm not really willing to fight the fight. I'm not interested in going out there and pounding the pavement. And I don't have an agent anymore. So I would have to do a lot of that myself. And I'm not really good at promoting myself. Yeah, me neither. That's the part I don't really enjoy much. Hey, you know, we have time for a few calls. If you'd like to give us a call, the number here is 800-893-9562. It's 800-893-9562. 800-893-9562. And it looks like we have a call here on the line right now. Hello? Is there someone here? No? Okay. It looks like we did. And they are gone. It was an 845 number. And our engineer, William, is talking to me, but I can't hear him. And he's, I can see his lips moving. All right. Well, again, the number is 800-893-956. The caller's not answering. Okay. So nevermind. If you would like to give us a call. They probably put you on hold. I put him on hold. I just realized this person had called. What was that, William? Okay. They're gone. Okay. They're not responding. 800-893-9562 is the number if you'd like to give us a call. We're also on Periscope. I don't know if we have any viewers right now. We did a little earlier, but I haven't been talking to them. I've been completely, completely neglecting them. Oh, wait. I hear something. What is that, William? All hell's broken loose. Oh. All right. Just forget them. They're asking William a question. He's answering questions. Hang up on them. I can't clear them out. No, they might be asking him an important question. They're done. So do you get back to New York very often or is this going to be it for you? No, I go back once in a while, you know, just to visit friends. Do you, when you look at your career, do you look at, are you excited about the future and, and projects or do you feel like you're winding down? You're kind of like losing interest in the business. I feel like I'm, I'm winding down. I would like to get up enough desire to write a book. And I say desire because I think, you know, it's easy to write a 30 minute TV show. You know, it's hard to write a book. But when I look back on my career, when I'm in, in a good mood about it, I think I am so fucking lucky. You know, I said that, you know, a lot of people that, that have a lot more to offer than I did are still struggling. How do you explain that? Being in the right place at the right time, having the right attitude, being fucking lucky. What are some of your attitudes, some kind of sayings you go by? God takes care of babies and fools. That's my favorite saying. Do you not believe in God? No, but I like that saying. What does that mean exactly? God takes care of babies? That sounds like you don't believe in God. No, it means that God makes sure that babies and fools are taken care of. And the rest of us? The rest of you have to fend for yourselves. You got to do it on your own. Are you not a religious person? I'm not. No, sadly, I'm not. What other success, if you were to give a couple, let's say you're doing a graduation or giving a speech or speaking to someone, just starting out, are there certain sayings you live by? Not really, because I really play it by ear. But if I were to give somebody success, I would say believe in yourself and don't give up. Because there are plenty of people who will tear you down. So you have to be an advocate for yourself. And while I said I'm not one, I don't promote myself, when I have an opportunity, I certainly do let people know that I can get the job done. So in that respect, but I won't go out and say, can you give me a job? Because I could do this or that or the other. But I say be an advocate for yourself and always believe that you can do whatever it is you want to do. Well, I think, yeah. And I think it's, sometimes I have good advice and then I have to remind myself of it. Well, you know, I read somewhere, somebody said, if we followed the advice, the key to success is to follow the advice that you give other people. Yeah, I think that's true. And for me, it's reminding myself that I live in an abundant universe. Because sometimes I will, if I'm not careful, I can go to scarcity. Yeah. And I think that my philosophy is that the world is whatever I decide it is. If I decide it's a scarce world, it will be. And if I decide it's an abundant world, it will be. It's my choice. Ooh, that's a little Buddhist. True though. It really is true. Well, yeah, we- If you live in an abundant world, abundance does come my way. And you'll find it if you live in that world, you know? But if you assume it's not there, that means you're not looking for it. So you won't find it. And whatever choice one makes, they're right. So if I leap across this and grab you by the throat, that was the right choice. Whether, as far as if it's not, if it's an abundant world or not. If one chooses that it's a scarce world, they're correct because that's what they've chosen and that's what they will manifest. That's what I believe. I have to remind myself that sometimes. Very spiritual. Well, you know what? You can mock me. That's a perfect way to end this. I'm not mocking Vic. No, I know. Well, thank you so much for being here. I mean, like- Thank you for inviting me. It's been so good. It has been. You're really a bright, you know, not to be corny or anything, but like a bright light. I mean, like I said, it's an incredible story. It's coming from my cell phone. No, it's not. It's not. It's coming from you. Thank you. You know, it's an amazing thing. I'm working on taking compliments. Yeah. I mean, it's really inspiring. Thank you. Because you have every reason in the world to not be sitting here talking to me about these kind of things. I know. I could have been sitting on my couch watching the Big Brother to see who has voted out this week. That's not what I meant. No. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. Okay. So hopefully we'll have another lunch. This won't be the end. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'd love to. You're really fun. And how can people find you if they wanted to just say hello? Are you on Twitter? Are you active there? No, you know what? I have to confess. Not having children makes technology really difficult. I'm not on Twitter. I'm on Instagram and Facebook. Okay. Do you do a lot of Instagramming? I just post pictures of me on Instagram. That sounds really vain. She's a selfie lady. Yeah. No, they're not selfies though. They're, well, go on, look me up on Instagram and you'll see what I have. What is your Instagram name? Lori Kimbrough. The whole name? L-O-R-E-K-I-M-B-R-O-U-G-H. That's it. Okay. Yeah. Excellent. All right. Well, thanks again. It was awesome. So fun having you. And thank all of you for hanging out with us. All six of you. No. It was at least seven. Something like that. And I hope to see you again real soon. Please find me on Skid Row Studios here. All our past episodes. Also, subscribe to iTunes. All right. Thanks again. I hope to see you soon. I'm Vic Cohen. And it's a fair question. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen. And it's a fair question. It's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen. And it's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair quest, quest, quest.