Fetish art online with Jay Moise

music music music music music music see now i know totally what you mean about this and then this i told you uh you can always know when we've got uh mindy working the engineering versus versus jenny which is you know it's not that they're just different people but like mindy will pay attention and she'll fade out our our intro music if we start talking which is cool totally love it it's not to say that jenny doesn't pay attention she does pay attention no but she doesn't know she really assumes that you know we want the integrity of our intro music which really we don't care but nobody knows that it's not specified anyway thank you thank you we love you we love it oh i love you guys hello and welcome to intellectual welcome and uh i am insidious muse that's who i am i i and i'm service slut and we have a guest we do have a guest to do a repeat guest yes we have a fetish artist jay moise salutations and he has been in here before specifically discussing fetish art and although i don't like repeating topics because it's a thing unless it's like one we did two years ago which we didn't do this two years ago so we're going to have a slightly altered version of fetish art we're going to discuss fetish art online and additionally we're going to have a slightly altered version of fetish art so what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of fetish art do we do what kind of Sexual. You're all there. Welcome, Jay. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. It's always nice to have you. So real quick, just catch up. What's new with you? If I remember correctly, massive amounts of art, which is really good because the past week, ironically, has been one of those where I just basically, you know, it's smile and nod, smile and nod, get things done, get things done. Just want to scream my head off. Just let me draw a smut for a little while. It's like, you know, it's... Most people don't actually have that kind of joy. Just five minutes. Just five minutes to sit here and draw a dirty picture. I feel the same way about looking at smut. Just give me five minutes to look at smut. Really? Because you haven't asked. I know, but... In eons. I haven't earned it also. That is a correct statement. You have not. There's no... There's that. Yes. Anyway, go on, Jay. Well, I've been getting ready for the Los Angeles... Gosh, I'm trying to remember if I'm pronouncing... If I'm doing this right. The complicated living daylights out of the name. Los Angeles Science Fiction and Comic Book Convention. It might be the other way around. It might be comic book and science fiction. But the short form is the comic show at the Shrine Auditorium this Sunday. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I've been getting... Trying to get pieces ready. I'm focusing on the superhero kind of fetish. Sweet. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I do have a Wonder Woman collection. I need to do more Wonder Woman. Yes, you do. Not tied up. Not. Doing the tying. I'm sick and tired of Wonder Woman tied up images. Please. She just does that to placate people. Jesus. I'm sorry. Carry on. Well, no. It's... There's... There's... Ironically, more the female characters. Oh, shoot. Speaking of which, we're gonna... I'm gonna do a little reveal here in a second. But yeah, it's like Wonder Woman, Catwoman. You know, we've got the magic lasso and Catwoman's whip. You know, I was trying to figure out... Oh, definitely. Latex bodices. You know, the whole... I was at... I was actually... I've been going to the show, the convention, for some time. But this is the first one where I very seriously, you know, buckle down. I'm going to exhibit. I'm going in full bore. And I realized at the last show, the one thing that I've been missing is a more superhero bent. Because there are... They don't like to talk about it a whole lot. But they do have... They do have adult stuff there. There's a hentai booth. There's a... If you look carefully and you ask around, not only can you find adult comics and back issues of heavy metal, but you can also find like old Playboys, old penthouses, because it's collectibles market. Sure. So I was ready for adult. What I wasn't ready for was it dawned on me. It is very... Because it's comic, it's very heavily superhero oriented. Right. And so I realized that, yeah. I need to do more what would be called fan art. It's become a little easier to do. You know, the trademark stormtroopers aren't necessarily running around. So I can... There's a little bit of stuff I can get away with just as long as I'm not like doing massive prints and putting the things like... Stay away from Disney. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No princesses. No Disney princesses. That's... That's... That's... They own Star Wars. So... Yeah. It's a thing now. Yeah. But I do have a quick big reveal. Ta-da. Let's bring you over for the camera. Yes. I'm calling this Cat Gal and Bat Guy. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. And this is part of what I've been fighting to try and get done. And I actually started Bat Guy. I was at the Tom of Finland Foundation. And that's why he's in that kind of weird pose was... You know, it's one of those things where the guy's like, Okay, lay down like this. And it's like, Uh, all right. You know, this is supposed to be erotic. Um, okay. Let me see if I can work... You know, because part of us, they're doing figure studies and nude studies. And it's like, okay, I've got it. Bat Guy incapacitated with someone standing over. Originally, it was going to be, um... Um... Super Guy. I do like my home erotic images. Oh, yeah. It was definitely some slash action going on. But, um... It was something just wasn't coming off right. Because once again, Super Guy... I was drawing hand prints on the butt thinking, Okay, what... How can I kink this up? Super Guy does not have fetish gear. He doesn't have ropes. He doesn't have... What can I do? Entirely covered. And he has a mask on. He has a hood on. I don't see how that's not fetishy. You know, for me... Well, Bat Guy... But Super Guy doesn't even have a mask. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, he could still be whatever. But for me, the entire superhero world, every person who ever put pen to paper to make a superhero was a kinky pervert. I guarantee that. So, I mean, there's always some sort of a kinky slant. And there actually is this tradition behind the scenes. The one that... The guy that actually came forward was Eric Stanton, who had worked on Spider-Man. He was... I think he was an anchor for Spider-Man. And Stanton's probably one of the most legendary of the crossover type artists from the 60s and such. There was Ward and Gene Milbrough, but they were primarily known more for fetish. Eric went back and forth, and he had no... He seemed to have little problems with having his name out there. That's awesome. Yeah. I think it's fantastic. I hope you do very well exhibiting there. Yeah, I think someone's gonna snatch this up pretty quick. Oh, for sure. Gorgeous. For sure. I mean, that's exactly the kind of thing. I mean, that's the kind of thing that I come across on TV. I come across on Tumblr on a fairly consistent basis. Oh, Tumblr, how I miss you. Tumblr's so beautiful. I love it so much. You know, I once heard someone refer to Tumblr, or at least various pages of Tumblr, one person's given page, as being a gallery where you curate art, assuming that people credit people appropriately because some of those things do belong to people. They, you know... The reality is if it wasn't originally credited, it's gonna be very difficult to credit. Right, yes. You would have to have whoever did it originally crediting it. If that's the case, I don't remove credits, but even if it's not there, there's nothing... Right. But I liked the idea, and we were talking about this earlier, about how, you know, you follow someone specific on Tumblr, and you know that person because they post, you know, a very specific theme. So, for instance, you and I both follow someone who all they post or all they share are drawings, and they're not all... It's called old erotic art. Right. And so, and it varies in terms of, you know, how edgy it looks. Sometimes it's just very classy. Yeah. But it's all generally that. And, you know, I mean, I know myself, like I follow people that mostly post, you know, degradation stuff, you know, which can vary in terms of, you know, is it a photograph, is it a drawing, what is it? But, I mean, then that brings up the topic, you know, I mean, what do we... I mean, there's so many different medias of art. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different ways that somebody can find a specific fetish. I'll give you an example. One of my sprinkle friends, not entirely vanilla, he and I are both on Pinterest, and he sends me pins all the time. It started off with just corsets, because he actually made corsets. That's one of his, like, passions. And so it started off, you know, because he knew that I was pinning corsets, so he started sending me pins of corsets. And I'm like, hey, that's really cool. And then he started sending me more edgy pins of, you know, a little bit more kind of BDSM related, which, you know, I go to Pinterest for the recipes, which is what a lot of people do, but it's there. You know, I think on any of these social media platforms, if you look, you're going to find it. I mean, I put it out to the Twitterverse today, and I said, where do you find your, you know, fetish art online that isn't Tumblr? And, you know, the response surprised me. Believe it or not, I can't believe it didn't even occur to me, one of the responses was FetLife. And I said, of course, because I don't use FetLife like that. I just don't. I use FetLife for events. That's what I use FetLife for, full stop. And the concept that, oh, my God, that's right, people actually do look at Kinky and Popular and like these pictures and stuff. Why? I never go to Kinky and Popular. I look at my feed, and I see what my friends are doing. And then I go to the events. That's it. But FetLife is a fantastic place where you can definitively know that you're going to get fetish-specific images. It's generally not going to be just art. It's going to be, I mean, there are going to be photographs and stuff, which I would put under the umbrella of art as well. So I thought that, you know, I didn't even think about it. Well, I get reminded every day because the funny thing is is when I go on to FetLife, I've started getting friend requests, you know, like, I'm going to get a friend request, from people who found my art. And there have been a number of times, it's hard to keep up, especially lately, but someone will love one of my pictures, so I'll ask them for a friend request. And so what happens is now I go on to my feed, and it's like I go on to my feed, and there's like one or two guys, and it's like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. You know, just like 10 pictures, 20 pictures. I'm like, how are you getting, how are they letting you do the bandwidth on this? And I'm looking at this going, I'm so glad this isn't video or Nate Glass from content, you know, take down piracy would be on this in a heartbeat. Yeah. But most of these are promotional images. So that's a help. But it's like mostly photography, but some cases, you know, actual art and fine art and just massive, you know, I just kind of like, and it's right in my face. It's like starting my day, and there's 20 images right there for me to choose from of, hmm, I might be able to do something with this. Right, which is nice for an artist as inspiration. For me, I get scene inspiration from Tumblr sometimes. I'm like, oh my God, why did I never think about that? What an awesome idea, which is great. But I think part of that is as we expose ourselves to these images, it's not that we numb ourselves, but we become more comfortable with these concepts. Which therefore alters our preferences. For example, you know, different kinds of bondage and degradation scenes, etc. You know, there might be some things that let's say three years ago, I was like, oh, that doesn't sound good to me. And the nose things, it's like, that's ugly. But the more I'm exposed to it, I don't even know what they're called. That's how bad I am. The more I'm exposed to it, the more I think, it has a place. I could totally see that being used. But you become accustomed to it. And I think that that is where online fetish is making those kinds of those changes. Having it be so readily available is nice. I mean, and I think for you as an artist, if you can get credit properly, which is nice, or even just having it out there is great. Because then it's like, you know, your art is out there. Which is like a great deal. I mean, it goes back to like the people that give away their CDs, their DVDs, their albums. They're like, oh, I'm going to put these things on the street corner just to get their music out there. Same kind of concept. It is. And the way I operate with it is I keep the, I try to keep the internet images fairly small. And, you know, someone, you know, and yeah, credit, you know, that's a major plus for me. You know, it's like I try and work in the signatures. I try and work in, you know, the littlefetishartist.com or jmoys.com now to try and make sure that, you know, there's a little bit of a watermark in there. But to be honest, you know, if someone, especially like on FetLife, if someone shares one of the pieces I have on FetLife, that's awesome. You know, it's like, hey, you know, I like this artist. They're really, really great. It would be for me if someone took that artwork and then printed it and tried selling it as their stuff. Yeah. That's when I get a little upset. And what I've also seen, this is where it does get tricky because there was an erotic art group that I was in and someone said, oh, I've got this great piece. And he's got this beautiful bondage drawing that he did like with charcoal or something like that. And almost immediately a rigger and photographer came in and went, that's mine. Oh, so they were in the middle of it. Oh, so they were inspired by. Oh, they weren't just inspired. It was a full on copy of a photograph that the guy had taken. And it's like that's, but then again, that's the learning curve also in being an artist. When you're new and starting out, you don't really think about these things. You go, you draw what you see. And that was basically what he did. It's like, oh, wow, this is really cool. I can draw that. And he drew that. It's just he needed to reference where he got it from and that sort of thing. And I don't think people do that with malice. I mean, some people do, but I think that that's a really small percentage. Most people are just looking for visually appealing images or they want to create visually. And on your side, I'm the consumer creator. And it's one of those. Obviously, if I really like a style, I will try and seek out who did it because it's like I really like it. There's this one artist that does all these Japanese femdom. They're very kind of large Japanese women with these little teeny tiny Japanese men. And it's all pencil or pastels. Gorgeous. And I sought it out. And I don't remember who it is now. But everybody knows these images. We've all seen them everywhere. But they're so beautiful. And I can't remember the artist now. It sounds like Enka Boots. It might be. Can you look it up? She first pinged on my radar from there's a guy that does a blog. His name's Richard. And he's got like. He's one of these guys that's trying to make the affiliate dollar. So he's got like 20 sites that are mostly. Most of them are public domain erotica. You know, stuff that's been out there. You know, the old stuff from Ward and Mill Brew and that sort of thing. But Enka Boots popped up. You know, he put that on like femdom artists or something like that. And I followed it. She has a Twitter account. But she's also got a Tumblr account if I remember right. Oh, sweet. And she does knock out femdom stuff. Yeah. It's really. If that's who it is. It's just. And it's one of those things where if you find something you like. You want to find that artist and you want to follow them. I mean, it's the same thing with people on, you know, Twitter or Facebook. You follow or you like something that you like because you want to see it in your feed. And that's what it boils down to. And the interesting thing about that is that if you find that artist. If you find that, then you find affiliate things that are you're interested in. And it can expand and spread what you like. And that's, I mean, like I said, I mean, it changes your taste over time. You were saying something. No, I'm sorry. I was making faces. Why are you making faces? Because there's, you know, images in front of me. I told you. I told you. Would that there would be images in front of you? I said, have fun with that. Remember? You asked if you could look up on these images today. And I said, absolutely. Have fun with that. Yeah, this is bad. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. No. When later you beg me for an orgasm and I laugh. Fun. And laugh. And laugh. And then maybe I'll have one instead. Oh, brother. Really? Sucks to be you. Yeah. Turns out. It does. It really does. Doesn't it? Yeah. Turns out. So I want to turn the conversation to what we were talking about earlier about how there's this differentiation between fetish art and pornography. I agree. Wholeheartedly. You know, and the first thing that comes to mind for me personally is that there seems to be a very subtle difference in terms of it being either it's tasteful or it's not. But even then, like, I don't know, it's such a gray area. So for me, let's say my Tumblr feed, which is again, you know, this is the gallery that I've curated by the people that I follow. Now, these are the people I follow. What I reblog, that's kind of more what I curate. Things that I come across, some of it is just full on porn. And that's fine. I got no problem with that. But for me, in order for it to cross over into art, I need to have a deeper understanding of what it is that I'm doing. And that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important thing. But I think that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important thing. But I think that's a very important thing. But for me, in order for it to cross over into art, specifically, there has to be more to it than just kind of sex or something sexy. It has to be artistic. There has to be something that gets my eye. But then further to that, specifically fetish art, because fetish doesn't necessarily mean sex. necessarily mean that it has to do with sex it can do with you know a beautiful woman in a corset could technically be fetish it is it even though it can be a very innocent looking image my my my corset board on pinterest is is all that um and it's for me i think that you can look at different things it depends on your mood and etc let's say you're in two shoes you know you can have a jimmy choux you know tumblr you do nothing but jimmy choux shoes which is totally awesome that's fetish art and when it's done tastefully i think that's the difference to me that's what makes it art and again everybody has preferences and what they like and what they don't like i mean i can go and stand in front of a kandinsky and somebody can be like what the is that i can be like um it's kandinsky it's amazing and they're like no i want to go over to the flemish realists and i'm like fine we can go look at the flemish realists but it's just about what people prefer if any of you got that out there please call me because you're my soul mate sorry oh boy i'm a dork that loves art what are your thoughts on that not dorks that love art i'm more of a lowbrow fan williams the pis although um i a massive chunk of my heart really is with the anime and the manga style and i know it's it's pop but the thing is is you don't have to apologize for it you don't have to be a hipster there there there's um well when you look at like rishi matsumoto and that was essentially a big chunk of it was like during the during the 80s just right before robotech i'm nerding out here right before robotech that's funny uh right after uh speed racer was um star blazers go go speed racer was uh star blazers and then right after was captain harlock and so especially with captain harlock you know not only did you have these really to me there was a lot of nice artwork style and there was another thing he did called galaxy express 999 there's just these to me very very beautiful styles that matsumoto was was working with and then back to the fetish it's like especially in captain harlock where you had the may zone and you had these these very uh 60s style uh latex outfits the that the alien women were wearing and i mean there's a lot of things i can i can there's a lot of things we can blame but rishi matsumoto pretty much in hindsight i can i can name this as a classic but i can i can name this as a classic but i can i can name this as a classic um what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what what The broken machine going, more, more, help. And the thing is, he actually, his influences were like, I want to say it was Bardot, where his influences, and you can see it in the artwork, where these women with the long flowing blonde hair, big rack, wasp waist, long legs, tiny little ankles. And that was what set him afire. And so it kind of chain fires down the line. That's cute, I like that. I'm actually looking for Femme Don't Marry. I shouldn't focus on that only, but that's what I like. That's what you like, I like that too. When I'm finding new people, I was like, how am I not following these people on Tumblr? Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow. The one thing I can definitely bring up, we ran into this with the New York Rubber, Ball Miss Rubber World competition, which is, and I've thought of this before, I've referred to latex as going nuclear in terms of clothing fetish. You know, there's the old saying that, you know, a description of a wild night never started out with eating a salad. And it certainly, I would have to say, it certainly didn't start out with, well, I walked out in my corduroy pants. You know, latex is, you know, if you wanted to, if it's going to be wild, latex basically maxes it out. And the thing is, is though, you know, that, you know, we had this event and we're trying to pitch it to the adult industry that this is something that the adult press should be covering, that they should be paying attention to. And they couldn't get it. It was like, they have their clothes on. It's like, it's rubber. Right. But again, fetish is a niche. True. And it's, if what you are accustomed to is kind of that overt, hey, I got a big dick and I'm a plumber, then it's going to be difficult to grasp the subtleties. I think that the adult industry has come a long way in making actual entertainment in their porn. It's not just, well, in the porn that I used to get is like, oh, is it, I like a particular star. Can I get four hours of their best scenes? To be honest, I don't actually want to see them talk. But they've come a long way since those days. There's better things for them to do. And I would fast forward. I was like, oh, got another blow job. Have you ever seen a blow job and fast forward? It's hilarious. You should do that. This is back. Many times. Many times. But it's, I think that it's difficult to grasp that subtlety sometimes, that fetish. And again, as I was saying earlier, fetish is not specifically sex or even necessarily sex. It's not necessarily sexual in overt looking. It becomes sexual because it is fetishized by the viewer. So, you know, for example, dirty feet. Unless you actually specifically have it as a fetish, you're going to see dirty feet and you're going to see, wow, they need to wash their feet. But if it's somebody who fetishizes dirty feet, then they immediately become aroused. So it just depends. Somebody can immediately become aroused by latex. For example, when Nancy sees, when she sees latex, she can look at it and say it's beautiful, but she's terrified of it because she has a fear, a phobia of balloons. So therefore, all she sees is somebody's wrapped up in balloons and that is like a circle of hell for her. You see what I'm saying? I do. And I can take this a step further because one of the, I think one of the award-winning nights was when a few years ago, performer went out in black latex, a full body cat suit, and she covered herself in black balloons. And so as she's doing her dance, she's doing her fetish dance number, she's popping the balloons as it's going on. And it is incredible. Nancy's having a bad moment right now. She's not happy. Yeah, but I think that's the whole point of kind of these fetishes and this fetish art and how, it's also interesting how, let's say somebody's only been exposed to these things and they're aroused by their images, whatever they may be. They may be latex, it may be leather, it may be shoes, it may be feet, it may be, you know, other types of things, hair, you know, hands, there's all, you could fetishize almost anything. And yet, until they've experienced it in real life, you don't really know. I mean, you think that it brings you some type of arousal, but, it might be the real story being like, eh, all right. You know, I used to think a threesome with two men and a women, wow, yeah. And I'm like, eh, could be two women and a man, eh, too much dick. I just, more vagina is better, let's be honest. So, you know, but it's that kind of that general concept that, I like the idea that these types of availability of this online art means you can expand your mind and your thoughts and what you think you like. But, but I always encourage people to, you know, try it, try it, go out and touch the latex and see how you feel. You are fucking nuts if you think I'm going to do that. I know. We go to the stock room, which is a beautiful store, a beautiful store. You love the stock room. Yes. And we always like looking at the latex stuff. I love too. It's beautiful. All of the images and stuff. And she goes, oh yeah. And she kind of like walks away and goes towards the butt plugs and the, and the spiky things. Cause she doesn't want to be there. Or she goes for the leather or the straight jacket. No, but you know, I walk by it and like, I do, I can appreciate the construction of it and that it looks very pretty. But the moment that it like I'm getting close and I can smell it or I, I like, I can't, I just can't, I can't do that. It, no, I will end someone. It just, no. Okay. Let me done with that. There, this actually brings me to a point. Which actually comes in handy. And this is, and this is one of the things that the sites like Tumblr and that sort of thing have helped with in their own way. Which is in some ways, sex by approximation or sex by proxy or fetish by proxy. And the biggest example I can think of is analingus, which has become hugely popular. Right. Well, and even before that anal sex, but yes, right. And it, I mean, it started for me from what I noticed, it started in the early 2000s with like the ATM movies where it was going from ass sex to oral sex to finish off. This is what I noticed when I was working at Adult Video News. And and the thing is, is having just come out of the AIDS generation. And all these things of unsafe this, unsafe that, and so on and so forth. The idea of having anything to do with the ass and the mouth was kind of like, you know, I had just come from the Bay Area where, you know, we'd, you know, we were just getting through AIDS and the, you know, we're talking, you know, people were still using condoms for oral sex. So, you know, the first reaction I had to this was, Oh my God, are you nuts? And, you know, things have started, you know, as it's become more popular, people have started to relax about it. And the dangers are still there. I mean, you look at some of these sites, what you're not seeing is, is yes, the woman has enema at herself. All of the safety procedures. Yeah, they, you know, they've, they've, they've washed, you know, the performers are with her like, you've, you've, you've washed, right? Right? You showered before, you know, you know, except for the couple of the, a couple of guys that will be like, Oh yeah. But the thing is, is that there's precautions that are taken. And plus with the adult industry, you have the added thing of they're checking each other's tests for things like HIV. And, you know, many of them, many performers have themselves vaccinated for hepatitis. It's just a smart thing to do. And, you know, so the thing is, is that, you know, looking at some of these photos and looking at some of these videos, it's like, it, you can fantasize about it. You know, you can kind of look into it, but you don't have to, you can just basically just be looking at the, at the videos and go, wow, that would be so cool. That would be so awesome. But, but I really like not throwing up after having caught Complebacter or, or, or E.coli or. Wow. Lovely. Yeah. And I do admit I've had Complebacter. Actually, you don't throw up with Complebacter. We're kind of back to the previous show where, yeah, there's, there's blood coming out the back end and it's not ready. Fantastic. Yeah. So it's, it's in that case, it's much, much better than having to fantasize about having your face in a place. But then, but then again, that's also one of the components of art in general is that, you know, whether you even talking about filmed art or drawn art or foot photographic art, it is the idea that whatever is within the frame, that's, that's the fantasy. The fact that you don't see everything outside of the shot, which it can be lighting, which can be dodges, which can be hair and makeup, which can be, you know, countless hours of penciling it and then doing the line art or erasing it. Or, you know what I'm saying? All of the things that go into it, you don't see because you see this fantasy and it's nice. And one of the things that I like about drawn or, or hand done art as opposed to photographs or, or video is that it's not bound by reality. You know, that's why comics are so fantastic. People can fly and you know, this, this woman can have this little, you know, 10 inch waist and 50 inch boobs, which I think is ridiculous, but it can exist. These men can have these rippling muscles, come on please, but it can exist and they can all have 10 inch dicks. And you know what I'm saying? All these things exist that don't exist in real life, which is the fantasy. I can fetishize that. Now I'm going to go masturbate to Superman when I get home. Great. Awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I definitely agree that there is a, there is a, a degree of desensitization. I'm having, was that glass of wine a little too much at dinner? No, I'm having a hard time speaking in English. Was it the analingus earlier? Did that bother you? No. Is it difficult for you? What I'm trying to say is that you become a little desensitized. You know, you, you see things and they're not as shocking. You're more willing to entertain the idea of possibly doing that, making it reality. You know, I, the first, I remember like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I remember like being able to like be on Tumblr and look at all of these images. Um, because that wasn't always the deal. Right. And I remember like I'd stumble upon things and it'd be like, oh fuck. I wish I'd never seen that. Fuck that, man. Yes. Oh God. Fuck that. I haven't, you just said that and there's images. Once you see something, you cannot see it. No, you really can't. True thing. I remember I thought, oh shit, whoa. Well, maybe like that could happen. And now it's more of a yes, let's do that. Well, and it's interesting because it's sometimes those things that shock you. It's also part of your reaction to it because you're like, oh wow, I'm, I'm liking this, but I feel like I shouldn't like it. Those are the ones that creep into your mind when you're fantasizing later. And that's, that's what I love about art. It, you react to it. Yes. You're supposed to. It's, it's, it's my favorite thing. It makes you feel stuff. I mean, not, this is not for the chart, but for instance, when we go to the Norton Simon, there is a particular section that you hate and that I love. And it is, it, you know, it's all of the, religious art, religious art. And like that, I love how it looks in it. I like how, just plant me in front of the Kandinsky. Fuck. I'll even go to the Van Gogh's. It's cool. But, but you know, for me, like I love how that looks and I was brought up Catholic. So I have that. I have that connection to it. So I see it and it makes me feel a certain way. It makes me recall. I have memories and granted, I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore. Thank God. But it still has that connection for me. Yeah. If they had some Heronius Bosch, I would agree with you, but they don't. Now going back to fetish art, it's the same thing. It is the same exact thing. Not the same as Catholicism, obviously. But. If some people look at it as a religion. It is a religious experience for some, you know, and that's, that's my favorite thing. And my favorite thing is that you can look at an image of this wonderful woman with fantastic breasts with this chest harness and appreciate the fact that, yeah, wow, that rope work looks great. But also the piece that she has, you can almost, you can almost see and feel how she's calm. She's breathing easy. And it just makes it almost puts you close to where you would imagine that person is when they're in that position. So you empathize with the bottom. I do. When you're looking at these types of images. I do. I don't, obviously not being a bottom. I don't empathize with them. I look at the images and I, I either want to create something similar to that in real life or I'm, it inspires me in other ways, but I don't, I don't usually empathize with art. It's weird. I empathize with everything else. It's not art. Well, I can say, and this is, I'm wondering when the day is that there's going to be a new, when the day is that there's going to be a court case where they have to rely on this. When you start getting into the differences between art and pornography, number one, porn many times, you know, I've had some times where someone's gone, oh, it's, it's great porn. It's great porn. And I'll look at the pictures and I'm like, it's biology. I, I've seen, yeah, I, I've not only have I seen dozens, if not thousands of, of images like that, I've seen better. But the thing is, is that art, there's a friend of mine went to video class at UCLA and the teacher was always, always stressing that you're, as an artist, you're supposed to be pushing the edge. That's your job. You're supposed to be pushing the edge. And while it's one thing to just have, well, shoot, you don't even need to, you don't even need to have penis and vagina. There's, I mean, I've looked at some, some images and it's like, okay, it's biology or it's, you know, you, you, you know, the funny thing is, is you could have just a piston entering a hole repeatedly and people just kind of look at that and they'll start to get a little hypnotized. And it's like, why am I staring at this? Because it looks like sex, dude. It's like, oh, oh. The intro montage to the TV show, Masters of Sex. Is brilliant. They have all of these innocuous things that look incredibly sexual. It's amazing. And I do have to admit the, the, the, the punchline to this story, the friend of mine had was the teacher was always saying, you have to push it further. You have to push it further. You have to push it further. So they got together. They got tired of being told this. And they have created a video with, with a video of a person who's been in a relationship for a long time. And they're like, oh, I'm going to have sex with you. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to have sex with you. And they're like, oh, I'm going to have sex with you. And I'm like, oh, I'm tired of being told this. And they have created a video which has been legend. And she has lost her master of it called Necrophiliacs Anonymous. Oh my God. The art film. It is, it is a college art film. And it's, it's about a group that are addicted to sex with the dead. And from what I've heard, they, they have a morgue scene where like dead bodies are dancing in the morgue and that sort of thing. It was really, sounds awesome. Really quite amusing. And they showed it to the, they showed it to the professor and his jaw hit the floor. And he just kind of went silent. You don't have to push it any further. Be careful what you wish for. Yes. Be careful what you wish for. But I think that most artists feel that they want to push themselves beyond their comfort zone. Yeah. Beyond their comfort zones in order, you know, to, to grow and stretch. And I think that that's a very common thing for creative people. But I think that, that, that is a very common thing for kinky people as well, where we within this practice want to stretch and grow and try and learn new things. Even those things that scare us. And the truth is that sometimes we're, we don't know what it is. I mean, we're lucky that we have so many fantastic dungeons here and so many incredibly skilled players. And we can see scenes where we're like, wow, in person. But there's some people out there, you know, in the middle of America or the middle of a small village in Europe that don't have those, the access. So they rely upon expanding their BDSM knowledge and mind via the internet. And so when artists can, you know, expand that by doing different things or creating different kinds of images, I think that just lends itself to growth. What actually just boggles me, it actually just boggles my mind is a lot of the stuff that during my twenties as, as an artist, a lot of the stuff that was becoming influential was things like marquee skin to a lot of this was coming from Britain, Germany, Amsterdam, and then bounced over here. We had people like Steve diet, Getty, um, Ernest green. Um, uh, Ed Fox, um, Michael Manning. I can't forget Michael Manning, probably one of the best fetish artists in the United States. Um, you know, they were, they were starting to do these looks and the, the latex was starting to catch on here more and more. Um, but what I'm now noticing is especially with the, the opening of the borders and the opening of the, uh, the, the east, we're now seeing Lithuanian artists, uh, being Lithuania, Russia, uh, Hungary, Czechoslovakia. Now, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of sex work involved in that too. But the other thing that I'm watching come out a lot is just massive, massive amounts of latex. And, um, and once again, it doesn't, doesn't have to be sex into itself. You've got these models that just love, love wearing the rubber. And, and they look fantastic. Right. It's just, and, and once again, we've got people, you know, experimenting and having fun and trying new things and pushing boundaries again. One of the things that I was, we were commenting during dinner is I like about the fetish models is they're not your typical looking model. They're unique. You don't see them in 17 magazine. No, you don't. Or even on Vogue or whatever. They're not that traditional model look. And it's, it's nice. I mean, I saw this, some woman I saw it was, um, was it called secret mag or something? Secretmag.com. And it's fantastic. And they have all the models listed on them. One of them has this gorgeous like aqua hair and I'm like, yes, I love it. And this other one that had, you know, you could tell she was kind of generally a plain girl, but she had this awesome, like shocking red hair and she was this cute and it was, you could see their electricity in the way they model, which I think people underestimate what it requires to be a really good model. Um, I like that these people look different, which to me is more like normal people, you know, as opposed to a lot of typical models where you're like, oh, that's a supermodel, which I can't even name any supermodels anymore. Back in the eighties I could, but not today. And I like that. I like that about fetish art and the, and, and it lends itself to having multiple people be fetish models if they wanted to, which is great. I mean, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, which is great. And that's the great thing about Kink in general. I mean the Los Angeles it's a little different because of the Hollywood and, and the, uh, the, the, the mainstream Hollywood industry, but like up in the Bay Area it's like, yes, you're going to have some wasp wasted women up in the Bay Area. But, you know, the thing with fetish up there is there was more of a, yeah, Morphold figured people in leather and latex and shoot. I remember, well, Lady Green, if I remember right, she tops primarily in a blue jeans and a t-shirt. Good for her. Gotta be comfy. Yeah. And I do admit that. I'd wear my chucks every fucking time if I could. That would be cool. Shoes. No, that's what I mean. Yeah. All stars. Right. Well, you know, in our world, chucks can mean chuck pads, which I don't wear chuck pads. It's weird. No, that is weird. That's a different fetish that I don't. All together. But, you know, actually, I could see Converse and that sort of thing. Amelia G from Blue Blood has to have done one or two layouts with chucks. Yeah, got some sweet shit. Yeah, I like that. Some of her alt girls. A couple just real quick, because we're running out of time. In my, looking, I'm a person that lives on my phone. Live on my phone. If I can't do it on my phone, it's not going to happen. So, I mean, like, if you are interested in looking for any kinds of fetish art or BDSM related kind of imagery, Tumblr is great. There's a DeviantArt and there's an app for Tumblr and there's a DeviantArt app, but it doesn't, it's not very highly rated in the store. Reddit, apparently you can do Reddit and they have an app. Well, it's not a Reddit app. It's called Reddit is Fun, which is awesome. And again, like I said, Pinterest, and they have an app, which I love. And then, you know, generally, you know, going around on the interwebs in other, other mediums, you could do that as well. Oh, Twitter. I mean, I, I, I suffer from the thing where I, I, I suffer from a syndrome I refer to as, oh God, not another social network. I, I pretty much burned out most of my gerbils on, on MySpace. And, and I, I still have a bad taste left in my mouth from Facebook. But what I've noticed is starting with Twitter, Twitter's been a lot easier to deal with than, than, than Facebook. Yeah. Because the thing is, is that with Facebook, they're very, very strict about, they don't even want you showing cleavage. Right. It's ridiculous. And Twitter, you know, they don't mind the anonymous accounts. They don't mind, well, I, you can flag inappropriate material. Yes. But there's a lot less of it being flagged. It's, there's, there's a lot more. Well, in the Twitterverse, you follow who you follow. And, you know, it, most people, when they're inappropriate, they either say it on their, their profile, or you just look at the top five tweets of them and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, you get a good idea. Exactly. I mean, you look at me, at any chance, there's going to be a Tumblr post, which is going to be a grossly inappropriate image, or I'm going to, you know, retweet one or say something. But I mean, I definitely, in my profile, it's like, look, I'm not suitable for anyone. So don't, don't even bother. And I even have so many people that say, I have to remember not to open your Tumblr pics at work. Yes. All of them are not suitable for work. Every single one of them. But, you know, just remember that. But because of that, you're going to have less flagging because they know what they're getting. They know what they're, they know they're the consumer of my Twitter timeline, your Twitter timeline of your whatever. So therefore that's fine. And if they don't like it, then they can unfollow, which is fine. Or follow because that's better. Yeah. No. Yeah. I'm going to say yes to that. And I've noticed Facebook and Twitter, they've kind of gone back and forth a little bit. There's this love hate relationship. I'm noticing Twitter and Tumblr and YouTube are a little more user friendly towards each other. And I do have to admit, I really haven't. YouTube's another one where they've in the past, they've been pretty stern about porn and that sort of thing. But I did do a look before coming over on fetish. And when it comes down to latex, they seem to be quite friendly towards it. It's not specifically sexualized. Yeah. So that's why it can be appropriate. They are fully clothed and you know, it's not sex. It's not sex organs. And therefore it can in fact be available. And very, very hot. Yeah. Right. It can be very sexy. I mean, sometimes that's the sexiest stuff. Yeah. That just, that shows nothing. Right. Right. Emily Post. You have any last thoughts on this there, little Miss Nancy? You know, I think one of the things that, one of the, what I also love about places like Tumblr is that, yes, you see things that are, someone is very clearly an artist and they have taken pride in their work. But I love the amateur stuff where it's not so much like a, I guess, I don't know if it's so much as art, but it's more of a like, hey, look what I did. I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to do what I did. You know, just kind of bragging rights, I suppose. You know, like, look at, look at my, look at my ass, like how many cane strikes I took and how I marked. Yeah. But I mean, even things like that, I think what, what they have in common is that they inspire people. For instance, how you said that, you know, you look at stuff and it inspires you for scenes. You know, you and I, we've done scenes and we've never repeated ourselves, which is pretty awesome. It is pretty fucking awesome. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. So I see that and I feel like that's a direct result of our exposure to fetish art. Agreed. Which is wonderful. That's what I have to say about that. That's fantastic. Oh, almost forgot. And we're coming down to the end of it. I should mention Etsy. And I do have, I do have an account on Etsy. You can find it through my, my, my website, fetish-artist.com. Oh, yeah. You know, personally, I've got Kinky Valentine's on there. Oh, how awesome. And my original artworks on there. If, if I'm, and actually if I was about to say, I don't know how I could sell this on the, the Cat Gal went on there, but I forgot. A fan art has actually been okay. Give or take on Etsy just as long as, you know, especially if it's original art and you can find, Aside from yours truly on Etsy, there's been a lot of fetish gear, bondage gear, cuffs. Right. Oh, yes. Collars. Silicon toys. That blew me away. There's some people making silicon toys on there. Really? Wow. Yeah. And I think I'm following a few on there. So I think if you go through my profile, you should be able to find like through who I'm following or that sort of thing. Plus, there are, you know, there's not many specializing in femdom art or subby art or that sort of thing. But there is quite a few people specializing in erotica on Etsy. Yes. And that's what inspired me to try and. Go where I was going with it. And they do act as a social network. So people can find you at fetish-artist.com. That's the easiest, fetish-artist.com. And that will let them know about your upcoming, you know, like you're at this conference or this con. Mm-hmm. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Can they also buy your Valentine's cards on there? It's true. Yeah. There's a link right there. Big heart with dominatrix. You know, buy my Kinky Valentine. Valentine's here. That's so sweet. And yes, the Los Angeles, I believe it's the Los Angeles Comic Book and Science Fiction Convention Shrine Auditorium. Doors open at 10 o'clock Sunday morning. Sunday, February 9th? Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, February 9th. If I remember right, I can't remember her full name. Katja from Sleepy Hollow will be signing autographs. There's. Going to be power, bunches of Power Ranger stars there. Can't remember names. We don't have time. Sweet. We're actually running out. Green Ranger, Green Ranger, Green Ranger. Thank you very much for coming in, Jay. I'm Insidious Muse. And I'm Service Slut. And this is Intellectual Kink. And we are on Twitter at Intellectual. Everybody, we'll see you next week. Green Ranger. Green Ranger.