Dr. King's legacy, nonviolence, and triple evils discussion

God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment, and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, you're too arrogant. You don't change your ways. I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name. Be still and know that I'm God. The promises of the great society have been shut down on the battlefield of Vietnam, making the poor white. And Negro bear the heaviest burdens both at the front and at home. Though the civil rights leaders, for various reasons, refuse or can't take a stand or have to go along with the administration, that's their business. But I'm afraid that I know that justice is indivisible. Injustice anywhere. Injustice anywhere. It's the threat to justice. Everywhere. Dr. Martin Luther King, preaching about righteousness. Welcome to the Qumran Report. May the peace and blessings of the life-giving, creative spirit be upon you and upon your family. My name is Melvin Ishmael Johnson, and I'm in the studio with my co-host, Earlene Anthony. This week, we will be talking about the meaning of Dr. Martin Luther King. I'm joined by Andy Griggs and Louis Rivas of ICUJP, Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace. Before we get into our discussion about Dr. King, I would like to play a short interview I did with my brother, Reverend Roosevelt Johnston, pastor of Evergreen Baptist Church in my hometown of Greenville, Mississippi, Christmas Day, 2012. The interview is... It's a little over six minutes long. Okay, welcome to the Qumran Report. It's your host, Melvin Ishmael Johnson. I'm down here in my hometown of Greenville, Mississippi, with Reverend Roosevelt Johnston, my brother. And welcome to the Qumran Report, Reverend Johnston. Okay, welcome. Good to be here. First thing I want to ask you, we're coming up to Dr. King's holiday coming up. So I want to ask you, you know, with all of the violence and stuff jumping off across America, on whether or not you think, what are your thoughts on Dr. King's concept of nonviolence, whether it's relevant for the time period we live in? I think nonviolence is very relevant for the time period that we live in. I think we have missed the mark because we're... It seems like our offspring, our young children, they seem to try to sell our dispute with violence when if we took a nonviolent approach and sit and try to talk a situation out, you could come to a peaceful solution. So nonviolence is very relevant today in order to stop out some of the violence. So I think that's the problem that we have. We could just try to talk it out and work it out. Okay. Now, Dr. King said that the three greatest evils facing America for the future was poverty, racism and militarism. What's your thought on that? Well, I agree because all of those evil exists today. Maybe not as much as it did in the past. I think it's a very important thing. One thing is that racism did not exist in the past. It did in past history, but it still exists. Racism still exists, but it's up to an individual to decide whether or not they want to be racist. And I always say if a individual per self, him or herself decides to be racist, so if you a racist, then the other individual has a right to be racist. But that's something that we don't understand. One thing is that racism is harmful. One thing is that racism is harmful. We can stamp out racism has always been here. And it probably would always be here because I often reminisce about the cliche birds of a feather flock together, which is true. If I enter a building and you got queer Afro-American on this side of the room and you got other nations on the other side of the room, I might feel more comfortable sitting around my Afro-American sisters and brothers. So not that I'm racist, but I feel more comfortable, you know, sitting around my own car. But the only thing going to stamp out racist is the word of God. And I'm talking from experience. How about poverty? And he saw my poverty the way he looked at it. You know, Dr. King lost his life. When he was trying to do something in relationship to the other garbage workers up to in Memphis, who was being exploited and stuff like that. And he looked at what are your thoughts on what he was talking about in terms of poverty, especially in terms of jobs for our young people today? Oh, yeah. Poverty is a very important issue because poverty exists and it would always exist. Right. I quote even biblically, it said the poor you would have with you always. But those of us that are fortunate, then I answer the age old question. Yes, we are brother people. When God blesses us with resources, we ought to try to help the less fortunate. And it's one thing about the United States of America that I never understood. We'll go to other countries and send resources to. Help them out when we have poverty and homeless peoples in our own United States of America. I just believe, you know, if we gear us resources toward poverty, we could cut out on crime, institutionalize this, fix it so everybody have an equal opportunity and we can rise above poverty. OK, beautiful. Now, how about the last thing? The military. You know, United States have. One of the mightiest military ever in the history of the world. You know, all of the nuclear weapons and in all of the money they put into the military budget, 10, 15 times the amount of money they put into educating the citizens here in the United States. What do you think about the military is the bill of what Dr. King talked about? That's right. OK, well, I agree with Dr. King because. Your military might. We do have a military arsenal. And not only that, but because of what we have, other countries look for us when problems occur in their area. Other words, they look at the United States as being a big protector. But those days are basically coming to an end because of the tight weapons that they have now. For example. The the what is it? The the nuclear war here that any country that has it and utilize it can affect the whole world. So that's something that man made. They wish they had not have made. But because of our military bill, nowadays we are fighting different warfare. Yeah. Well, I'm military. Bill. They think about military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military military for a great interview. It is Melvin Ishmael Johnson with the Coon Brown Report. Okay, thank you. That was Reverend Roosevelt Johnson, pastor of the Evergreen Baptist Church in my hometown of Greenville, Mississippi. Now, I am delighted to have with us in the studio Annick Griggs, program director of ICUJP, and intern Louis Revis. Now, ICUJP was founded in Los Angeles after 9-11 to support the work of faith leaders from Buddhist, Christian, Islamic, Jewish, and other spiritual faiths and traditions who say religious communities must stop blessing war and violence. ICUJP meet every Friday morning at 7 a.m. at Emmanuel Presbyterian Church located at 3300 Wilshire Boulevard, L.A., California, 90010. Annie and Louis, welcome to the Coon Brown Report. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Yeah, Annie, I want to start off with a question. Can you remember where you were and what you were doing when Dr. King was assassinated April the 4th, 1968? Well, Melvin, I was probably somewhere on campus of Sierra High School in Whittier, California. I was a senior getting ready for graduation coming up that June. Probably worried a little about my speech that I was going to be giving at the graduation. Certainly looking forward to getting out of high school and going on to college. So I don't remember the exact thing. It's very interesting because I certainly do remember when I was a senior. I was a senior. I was a senior. I remember being in junior high when John F. Kennedy was assassinated because they made a big announcement. I don't remember an announcement at the high school. I think it was one of my teachers who told me about King's assassination. So I'm not sure, but I know I was shocked and angry and upset about it. That I do know. Now, what is the meaning of Dr. King to you? Well, it's interesting because, of course, throughout school and even today in schools, kids get the story of, I have a dream speech. And that's about all they hear. They don't know all the other aspects of it. Luckily in my family, we were quite involved in Whittier. My parents were involved in the Fair Housing Committee. When, there were six or seven black families living in the area of Whittier. So I had a lot more knowledge of what was going on. And we were always raised very politically. My father worked for the California Youth Authority at Fred C. Nellis School right there in Whittier and would often bring us onto the campus. And it was very clear to me the issues that we talk about, the racism, what was going on in the number of minority kids who were in those institutions, in that institution in particular. So for me, Dr. King, of course, there's the idea of nonviolence. But what reaches me the most is... It's probably his letter from Birmingham Jail, which is the concept of the negative piece, which means that we try and smooth things over, smooth differences over, that kind of thing. And Dr. King said at the time he was writing to people who are criticizing him for being arrested. He said, we have to act now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We can't just wait around and wait for things to change. The time is now to be involved. And it may mean breaking the peace, as it were, but in a nonviolent way. In his later life, he became involved in the anti-war movement, where he talked about why are our... Our young black men going to fight a war when... Supposedly for the freedom of the Vietnamese, when they come home, they'll be oppressed and in the same situation they have been all their lives. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so that's... I mean, that's the meaning to me. Okay. It's the idea of confronting wrong wherever it exists all the time. Yes. And I thought the most important thing... The most important thing about that letter from the Birmingham jail is that he was addressing this to the clergy who were criticizing him. But, Lewis, what's the meaning of Dr. King to you? Can you talk about that for a while? Right. Well, I guess more than anything, Dr. King represents a radical alternative way of thinking, a very profound analysis of our system, our government, our culture. Our society in general. And everything that pretty much Andy said, and it all comes from a faith perspective. So, yeah, for me, I latch on to Dr. Martin Luther King's efforts with the Poor People's Campaign, with the connection that he made with racism, militarism, and economic inequality as a systemic issue, not something that is merely like an incidental, accidental thing, but it was man-made and it's ingrained to the nature. Unfortunately, of our capitalist society. So to me, hearing King talk about that, denouncing the Vietnam War, the amount of money and attention and priority that the United States government was giving to military in dark contrast to social service funding, to public education funding, for me, that's the most striking thing of Dr. Martin Luther King. Yeah. I think that's the most striking thing about Dr. Martin Luther King is his ability to connect it all and make a good analysis of it. And all from a perspective of faith, saying that it's a moral obligation to act out for the sake of, or for the cause of justice. Okay. Now, Andy, what are your thoughts on Dr. King's concept of non-violence? Well, again, Dr. King talked about that a non-violent way of approaching things was a way of showing a resistance. Yeah. And it was at the heart of the idea of non-violent resistance, but also a confrontative type of non-violent resistance so that the word is known. Of course, ICUJP, of course, as you know, was just recently in September honored one of Martin Luther King's mentors. The... The... The... The Reverend James Lawson. And of course, he is always saying that we have to be out on the front lines fighting the poverty, fighting the racism of what's going on in our prisons. I know you're going to ask a question about that a little later. So I want to talk about that. But and that can happen in so many ways, but there does come a time when we put our bodies and our voices on the line to the point of... Mm-hmm. ...their voice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to coming in contact with Dr. King. He had spent some time over there. But, Lewis, let me get your thoughts on that. What do you think about Dr. King's concept of nonviolence, especially for this generation? Right. You know, it's controversial because we live in a violent society. We live in a violent world. And for us to organize on this premise of nonviolence is something that a lot of people perhaps find uneasy or maybe have their qualms or their doubts on. But for the most part, it's the most accurate and the best way to organize under. It encompasses all different types of tendencies of people and movements. And everyone can get under that slogan. Everyone can unify under this tactic of nonviolence as a way of, you know, fueling a social movement. So it's... It was important back then. It had its victories back then. And it's important now. And it should still continue to be a point for people to organize around. Could I just add something there, too? And one of the things that Lewis mentioned is very important, I think, that Dr. King, of course, was confronted with another movement within the Black Liberation Movement at the time, which was the work of, of course, the Black Panthers, and, you know, and Malcolm, and all of that was going on at the same time. And there were different ways and different philosophies of how to do the best work. And what you find is that all of them had their strong point and did things. The Black Panthers programs, the free breakfasts, the defending yourself instead of just letting, you know, yourself. And ended up, of course, them being mostly murdered and decimated... Yeah. ...by the police, you know, and the powers that be, because it was too much of a threat. And, of course, a lot would say that that's what happened to Dr. King as well, is that he was murdered by the powers that be because he was starting to connect the dots between poverty and the militarism of the Vietnamese War and racism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to touch on that a little later on when we talk a little about Jago Puvwa and COINTELPRO. But let me ask this. Is the concept of nonviolent a valid tactic today in such a violent world that we live in? Are you asking me or Andy? Either one to take it up. Is it a valid tactic? Of course it's a valid tactic, you know. I think for one thing, I think if you're organizing a social justice movement and the very first thing you say is, okay, we're going to, you know, confront things violently or take up arms or whatever, you're going to isolate the masses. You're going to isolate the people that you're trying to protect or trying to work with. So it's always going to be a valid tactic. I think it's one of the most... It's one of the best ways of organizing people because you can get a lot of people with different tendencies to come on the phone and talk to you. Yeah. To come on board for a lot of actions. And, you know, no, yes. In short, it is a valid tactic today. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For one thing, it encourages and gives people the opportunity to think about an issue which they may not have thought about in the past. Mm-hmm. When you think about the people crossing the bridge in Mississippi being beaten, seeing them being beaten, and just passively allow themselves... I mean, not allow themselves, but, I mean, to be beaten and jailed and stuff, it makes you think, what are they so passionate about? Mm-hmm. What's going on here? And hopefully it gets people to think about those issues. And... Or, you know, as has happened with ICUJP on several years, no, just a year ago, on October 21st, the 10th anniversary of the invasion of Afghanistan, we had a march, a rally, and we ended up with 14 people who committed civil disobedience, including people in the clergy. And people think about that. People see that. They say, there's a passion. Of course, there are those who just think we're all, you know, off the wall and should be transported somewhere else and should stay in jail. But if you get a few people to think about that, we had yesterday, no, Friday, a demonstration for the 11th anniversary of the development of the setting up of Guantanamo as a prison facility, or a torture facility is what it is, quite frankly. And you think about that. The people who were sent there were mostly paid for, in essence, were paid for by a bounty. The U.S. put out a bounty that we're looking for people who might have some information about what happened on 9-11 or who are fighting against us. And so you had people whose enemies were putting them in, turning them over or saying, this guy did this. This guy did that. This guy did that. This guy did that. This guy did that. This guy did that. This guy did that. So there were over 600 people who were in Guantanamo. There's still 161. Four years after President Obama said he was going to close down the prison, 86 have been cleared for release or transfer, and they're still there. That's a violence that we can fight against. Even I say the word fight, but it is. It's a struggle. It's a struggle. Let me ask you. Let me ask you this question. Amanda, do you think the American people condone torture as a whole? Because, you know, I think about from a historical point of view, when we had the Inquisition in history, you know, there was state religious support, people in power, you know, they were doing the same thing. And a lot of the population, they didn't have the knowledge of what was happening because of the Inquisition. And a lot of the population, they didn't have the knowledge of what was happening because of the, didn't have the mass media then. Now we have the mass media, we amplify all of this torture that's going on, all this stuff that happened. Do you think the Americans as a whole believe in torture? Because they know about it. They can't play the ignorant game anymore because the same thing that we have in these shoes up in the prison institution, you know, this kind of torture, too, for individuals. as being in these little small spaces the size of a bathroom for 25 and 30 years driving these guys insane. See, do you think? I think that you've got a very divided public in the United States. One of the things that happened on Friday was an actor, David Glennon, made a statement. He's part of the Academy Awards team, the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences, and a voter for the Oscars. And he made a statement saying to his other members of the Academy saying, I believe that Zero Dark Thirty, the film recently come out about the capture of Osama bin Laden, and glorifies essentially glorifies torture. It shows that torture works, which it did not. I mean, there's been many statements saying that torture did not work and was not a part of the capture of Osama bin Laden. Of course, there are some who say that who knows if Osama bin Laden was really captured. But we've gotten some very interesting responses when that story was reported. The producers of the film, the producers of the film, the producers of course came out and said, it's outrageous that anybody would suggest to others not to vote for this. What David Glennon and Martin Sheen and, um, uh, who was the other one? Al, um, Ed Asner, Ed Asner said was that voters should use their conscience when voting it, that they personally were not going to vote for that show. And so he said, use your conscience. And we had people who were writing in and supporting that. And we had people who were saying, it was torture and torture. And we had people writing in and saying, yeah, it was torture and torture. If done to save American lives, American troops is okay. And I find that pretty outrageous. I think quite frankly, there is no excuse for torture, whether it was in the inquisition, whether it's at home. Um, so, uh, but yeah, it's there that that attitude is there. Okay. Oh, okay. Well, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, or a capitalistic system that we live on. All right, well, that is a profound question. And if we can come out with an answer in the next couple of minutes, then we should probably notify everybody and we can organize around that. Because the answer isn't simple, like you just said. You're asking this question, but under the parameters of the system that we acknowledge as capitalist. Another question to tackle to that, is that even possible? Can we, because what it is, we need to reprioritize the way the society is structured. I mean, I don't think poverty is the number one issue of our government. It obviously isn't. It's imperialism. It's the U.S. military. So with that said, I mean, you have to somehow reprioritize everything. And how do you do that? I honestly don't know. Do you change? Do people elected? Do you talk about an alternative system? I think reforms are absolutely necessary. And we could definitely work on a local level to try to talk about different issues. For example, militarism. That's something that is a little bit more feasible in stopping slightly. You know, we can maybe talk about quelling the amount of military recruiters on low income or people of color communities and campuses and stuff like that. Now, how about... The education system. I have a better education system to create more jobs for especially our youngsters that's on the lower level. Because I think it's tied into, you get it, the prison system, et cetera, like it's almost like a circle. And then I think eventually we're going to have to look at very closely the type of system that we live in, the type of economic system we live in. Because a lot of people think capitalism, capitalism is all 100% evil. I don't. But I think it has some evil aspect of it that definitely need to be looked at. How about racism? What can we do about racism? Well, I'm going to just want to sort of go back to what we said about the whole idea of local, the local aspect of it. I think we have lost the idea of community and mutual support. Mutual aid. And I think that that's one of the things we have to look at. And I think that there are aspects of that going on. Whether it's the Occupy the Debt movement, or Occupy the Hood and the fighting back against these outrageous foreclosures going on. It's going to be little movements growing into bigger movements. And of course, there's education. It's educating our young students. And that's going to be even harder these days, having come out of the education system where I taught in Watts. I taught for six years in Watts. And I saw the poverty around me. I saw the kids who didn't know where they were getting their next meal. You know, the food that was served to them at the school was the only food sometimes they'd get in a day. Yeah. And I think that we have to be addressing, addressing those issues on the one-to-one basis, and almost on the one-to-one basis, but also that idea of building community. Today, I helped a friend who had had her car totaled and needed some help, you know. And my partner and I helped her to get her stuff out of her car. So, you know, that kind of little thing sometimes is what is important. Okay. Look, let's take a break for our community calendar, and then we'll come back with our guests, Andy Griggs and Louis Revis. This is the community calendar for the month of January. Drama Stage Coon Run Veterans Community Workshop is being held every Tuesday from 5.30 p.m. to 8.00 p.m. And this workshop is free to veterans and non-veterans. The location is the Vortex, 341 West Olympic Boulevard. This is near the corner of Santa Fe and Olympic. The bus numbers 60 and 66 stops right at or near the corner. If you're interested in the workshop or for more information, contact 213-908-6587. This Saturday, January the 19th, from 8.30 a.m. to 3.30 p.m., is the Grand Slam. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. at the Rock Art House, location 10231 Haines Canyon Avenue in Cahunga, between Day Street and Apperson. We're asking you to please mark your calendar and join others in the grant-writing boot camp, which is sponsored by Drama Stage Cool Run and the Haines Canyon Colony. The unique Rock Art House is nestled in the Angeles Forest foothills of Cahunga, 12 miles north of downtown. Advanced registration and payments are required. The workshop fee is $25 and $35 at the door per person and will include grant-writing 101, fundraising, foundation research, mission statements, setting goals, establishing objectives, defining success, and much more. This grant-writing boot camp is designed for the nonprofit organizations to get help. Also, a breakfast and lunch will be served. For more information, contact Judith Bowman, Development Director of the Robie Theater Company, at 626-703-1500. And Sunday, January 20, from 1.30 p.m. to 3.30 p.m., the United University Church Peace Center, ICUJP, which is Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace, and Drama Stage Cool Run presents an interfaith gathering to celebrate Dr. King and his legacy on the triple evils of poverty, racism, and racism. Thank you. Dr. King's book, Militaryism and Other Readings of Dr. King, will be read. The location is the United University Church, USC Campus, Fellowship Hall, 817 West 34th Street, Los Angeles, at the corner of Hoover and Jefferson. And this is a free event, and all are welcome to attend. Upcoming guests on the Cool Run Report, Monday, January 21, will be Dr. Ruby, and Dr. Walter. If you have a community event that you would like announced on our show, send the information to Dramastrate1 at yahoo.com. Attention, Earlene Anthony. Our call-in number for the show is 800-893-9562. Now back to our host. Okay, thank you, Ms. Earlene Anthony. Now we're back with our in-studio guest, Annie Griggs. Annie Griggs, Program Director of ICUJP, and intern, Louis Revis. Louis, can you tell us about the event coming up this Sunday, January the 20th, 2013, at 1.30 at the University Church? You know, some of the speakers and the feature artists. Sure, yeah. As you said, this is organized by ICUJP, and it's newly established a youth group called Spiritual Youth for Justice and Peace. And this is going to be our third event. It's a monthly event. We started in November, I believe, and each month has a different theme. The first month in November was homelessness amongst veterans and young people. And the December event was on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And this event will be on, as you said, the legacy of Dr. Reverend Martin Luther King and his take on the triple evils of racism, militarism, and poverty. We're going to have a lot of fun. Thank you. We're going to have a few speakers that are going to be touching upon each of those triple evils. We're going to have some counter-military recruiters who are going to be talking. That's Ulysse Williams and Sandra Williams. We worked with them before in giving out opt-out forms to high school students so that their information wouldn't be given to military recruiters in schools. Quasi is going to be one of the speakers as well. We're going to have Reverend Dr. Lewis Logan. And as far as performers, we have Matt Cedillo, who's a pretty well-known slam poet who's going to be reciting a few poems. And Lakia Hicks, who is the one that actually started the Theatre of the Oppressed based out of USC. She'll be doing a poem slash song. And of course, obviously, Drama Stage Coombran. You'll all be there, I hope. Thank you. And also, we have a Stephen Fitz. Who is also a member of ICUJP. He'll be performing a song dedicated to Dr. King. As you said, it starts at 1.30. It's probably going to go on for about an hour and a half, two hours. We're going to have refreshments and food. It's completely free. I think that's it. Okay, all right. I'd like to add something about it. One of the things that we're trying to do with these Sunday events once a month is to invite people to come in. Encourage youth to get involved, people to get involved. And one of the things we're going to be doing is collecting materials for hygiene kits to be distributed on Skid Row in the following weeks. And so we will have on our website and on our Facebook page, and I'll give those names, addresses in a second, a list of the kinds of items. So we're encouraging people to come to attend that to bring those items. And our webpage, which it's not up yet, that list, but it will be shortly. I've got to do it right tomorrow. www.icujp.org. Or if you go to our Facebook page and like it, we like it when people like it, it's www.facebook.com. Okay, thank you, Andy. Now, I would like to open up our roundtable discussion on the relationship with Dr. King to J. Edgar Hooper. Leading into our discussion, I would like to play a short clip from a tape that I did entitled The Forgotten Tribe of Shabazz. It's about four minutes. Now, after J. Edgar Hooper used this methodology to bring down Marcus Garvey and destroy the Universal Negro Improvement Association, as I mentioned, he would perfect this into a technique that would be used in the 60s, most notably against Malcolm X and against Dr. King. Now, what was it really about Minister Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King that made them such a threat to the American ways of life in the eyes of J. Edgar Hooper? The answer to that question is found in a memo by J. Edgar Hooper in response to a discussion about Dr. Martin Luther King. This memo, in which J. Edgar Hooper would send around to most of his trusted FBI agents, would become known as the Hooper Memo. The memo reads, To prevent the rise of a messiah who could unify and electrify the militant black nationalist movement, Malcolm X might have been such a messiah. He is a martyr of the movement today. Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael, and Elijah Muhammad all aspire to this position. Elijah Muhammad is less a threat because of his age. King could become a very real contender for this position should he abandon his supposed obedience to white Islam. The memo reads, To the white liberal doctrine of nonviolence and embrace black nationalism. Now this was an FBI memorandum that was issued on March the 4th, 1968. And keep in mind, that was just a little, a month, what, a few weeks after that, up in April, the assassination of Martin Luther King in Memphis. The goal of this memo was to prevent the rise of a black messiah who could unify the black masses. Hoover never forgot his experience with Marcus Garvey and the fear that the Garvey movement caused. This was the foundation for the creation of the underground program that I mentioned called COITELPRO, whose sole purpose was to neutralize any organization deemed un-American. Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King had the potential to duplicate the success of the Marcus Garvey movement. As long as Malcolm X was part of the organizational structure of the nation of Islam under the control of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, he was no threat to duplicate the success of Marcus Garvey and the Universal Negro Improvement Association. The same in relationship to Dr. King. As long as Dr. Garvey was part of the organization, as long as Dr. Martin Luther King was under the conservative, non-violent movement of civil rights, he was no threat to duplicate the national and international success of the Marcus Garvey movement. But with the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize and his opposition to the Vietnam War, this took him like Malcolm X when he separated from the nation of Islam out of the arena of civil rights into the arena of human rights, from the national scene to the international scene. The move by Malcolm X and Dr. Martin Luther King from the national arena of civil rights to the international arena of human rights would sign the death law. Let's talk about the Hoover Memo and COINTELPRO for a while. Anybody want to pick up on that? Yeah, well, of course, COINTELPRO, COINTELPRO was basically what it says, a counterintelligence program. And it was the infiltration of groups ranging from SDS, Students for a Democratic Society, to, of course, in the civil rights movement, the peace movement, which went on into the feminism movement, gay rights movement, which had just, were all blossoming in the late 60s, in the 60s, of course. And many said it also led to, of course, the setting up of the selling of dope here in LA. Mm-hmm. And the rising, nobody talked a whole lot, although there are more and more people talking about this now, which is the rise in our prison populations starting in the 60s. And for the drug, it's part of the drug war, is also part of that. There's little branches of this COINTELPRO. And of course, now we're discovering that it's happening again. Yes. And it's quite overt. I mean, the number of police who were involved in the Occupy movement. Occupy. In the peace movement. You know, it's there, and people have got to be aware of it. Yes. And so it is essentially a way, and you've got, whether it's a police provocateur who tries to provoke people to do something illegal, Mm-hmm. so that they get arrested and it looks like they've done something, or whether it's somebody who on the internet Mm-hmm. is goading people to make a statement. It's all part of what happened, and it's part of the Islamophobia that's going on right now. Mm-hmm. And that's another part of why ICUJP is around, because when we say we must stop blessing war and violence, we're talking about the violence, again, the violence against individuals and groups as well. Mm-hmm. Okay, thank you. Let's just touch upon just a little history of this COINTELPRO. I think it was so important. Hoover was a brilliant man. That's why I never let anyone divert me when they start talking about Hoover being gay, the cross-dresser. That's not important. What's important is how the first major case, the first major case that J. Edgar Hoover had was a neutralized Marcus Garvey and the Universal Negro Improving Association in the 20s. So what he did, he took this black Miller-class doctor and he infiltrated the movement. He used a tactic called the concept of infiltration and disinformation. And this became the foundation when he became the head of the FBI. This was his tactic. This is what became the counterintelligence program. And even after his death, it's still in existence. I'm glad that you mentioned the Occupy movement because they used that tactic. They infiltrated. And they created disinformation to split up the movement because that's always the tactic, to split them to keep them from achieving their major goals. He did that with the gangs and stuff like that. The Crips and the Bloods, how they were able to break that up, break that up the same way. Let me ask this. Since we're talking about the Occupy movement, what can the Occupy movement learn from Dr. King? What do you think? I was briefly a part of Occupy LA. I stayed on the encampment. And we were part of the organizing committee even before October 1st, September 23rd, I think, was the first meeting at Pershing Square. And there were a lot of suggestions. There were a lot of strategies being tossed around. But like I said earlier about the tactic of nonviolence, that was one of the few things. Well, there was a few other ones, but that was one of the main ones that really a lot of people were comfortable and compassionate and confident organizing under. So until this day, obviously Occupy is still around. There's just no physical encampment anymore. Nonviolence is the most important thing that's happening. And it's an ingrained part of most Occupy movements, especially in LA, obviously Occupy Wall Street and all the other Occupy movements. So they quote and they work around King's strategy as well as Gandhi's strategy of nonviolence, civil disobedience, and they couple that with direct action. And for the most part, people may not credit King for that. But yes, a lot of Occupy people do definitely use nonviolence. As part of their program. Which is great. Which is great. Yeah. Did you want to say anything on that end? No, I think that says it. I mean, you know, the strategy is combined with the idea of direct action. Direct action. As well. Direct action and nonviolence. You know, it's thinking about who is the person you want to influence. You know, it was very interesting when the chalk in happened here in downtown LA, you know, and people were complaining that people were writing in chalk on the streets and it bothered the people who were coming down for art walk. And it was very interesting to see because that showed a lot of the schism and the difference between the differences and the privilege and stuff that's going on in our society. And I mean, the fact is, is that a few months earlier, you know, the city had been encouraged to write in chalk on the streets to welcome, who was it, Armstrong, Lance Armstrong. I think that was before the drug scandal. Yeah. But, and to see that difference of privilege is sometimes the only way to do that is to take that action directly, but nonviolently. Okay. Okay, we're winding down. Let's take about a minute and get a closing comments from Lewis and then from Andy. And then give us some contact information for those who would like to get in contact with the ICUJP. Let's go with Lewis first with closing comments. Okay, closing comments on what is happening. Dr. King, the event coming up. Oh, for sure. Okay. Well, I didn't say this earlier, but these events that we do every month, they're based in interfaith work. They're based in social justice. So we combine the two. And that's something that we're very conscious of. And we want to really connect faith traditions with the work that social justice movements are doing. And we encourage young people to come. There's a growing population of young people that aren't as active in the faith movement as much as the older generation is. And I'd like to see more young people come to our events because it's a viable, necessary, big movement. And more young people need to be part of it. One of the things King talked about was, you know, using your spirituality, your morality to motivate you to do that kind of work. So I encourage people to come. Beautiful. And they can find out more about us at www.icujp.org. And they can also look on Facebook. And that's www.facebook.com slash icujp. We've got a page there. And we usually, we do have an event listed for this month's event. And we encourage people to contact Luis Rivas. And that's at luisrivas at icujp.org. If you're interested in helping to find out more about future events or if you'd like to be part of the planning for them. Okay. Thank you. Now, I would like to expand, thank you, Anna Griggs, Program Director of ICUJP and the intern, Luis Rivas. I would like to extend a special thank you to my co-host, Earline Anthony, my in-studio guests, Anna Griggs and Luis Rivas. Please check out our past shows of the Qumran Report on iTunes, Facebook, skitro.la. Thank you for tuning in to the Qumran Report. And from your host, Melvin Ishmael Johnson, may the peace and blessings of the life-giving, creative spirit be upon you and upon your family. And once again, here's Dr. Martin Luther King talking about righteousness. Somebody make you think that God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with judgment and it seems that I have to be a policeman of the whole world. And it seems that I can hear God saying to America, you are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power and I'll place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name.