Fit and Fab couple discuss marriage, fitness, and reality TV

Get the knives out. Dish is about to be served. Outrageous. Are you kidding? I've been inside only one woman after I was born. The Statue of Liberty. Provocative. If it's a pain in the ass, honey, you're not doing it right. Pop culture. Meanwhile, she's on the cover of Us Weekly. Dating. Boyfriends are like jobs. Except he probably stopped sucking after a year. Wicked. What do I look for in a guy? My dick. Smart. Sassy. Contemporary. I mean, I can't. Porn again. The podcast. Hey, everybody. I'm Josh Sabara. And I could not be more excited about my guest today. I'm sort of going to read it because there's so much to say about you guys that I can't really just ad lib. So my guests today are the fit and fabulous super couple, Craig Ramsey. And Brandon Liberati. Craig is an internationally known fitness expert and author of the anatomy of muscle building and the anatomy of stretching. I think you represent your work well. I try. I try. His husband, Brandon, is a renowned hair and makeup artist whose work can be seen on some of the world's most famous faces, films, and TV shows. And together, they've opened their lives to the cameras on Bravo's reality series, Newlyweds. And have recently launched an all-encompassing fitness and beauty one-stop shop. Fit and Fab. And that's P-H-A-B. Fit and Fab. So welcome to the show, guys. Hello. As you know, before I get into the nitty-gritty of what you're up to, I usually discuss a few hot topics and things that are annoying the shit out of me that week. Well, can we discuss first your drink of choice for Fit and Fab today? Show the cameras. I want that. Let me explain the new caramel waffle cone frappuccino. Oh, are you serious? What is there to explain other than how many? Whatever. If it wasn't for that, you would have no career. I order those things when I'm out of town. So be grateful that Starbucks serves this to me, and now you have your work cut out for you. Okay. Let's get started. Take a big sip. Yes. Okay. So Pennsylvania judge found evidence to proceed with a criminal trial against Bill Cosby. So he faces three counts of felony aggravated indecent assault. From the 2004 case with Andrea Constance, who was an employee at Temple University, which is Bill Cosby's alma mater. So that said, she's one of 50 women who have accused Cosby of sexual misconduct. So first of all, naturally his defense attorney has slammed the decision saying the evidence presented today was evidence of nothing. Now, what do we really think? Because where there's smoke, there's fire. And when there's one person coming out, it's like this one. And this is about one particular case. We have 50 women. And by the way, that we know of whom have come forward. I mean, as I say, one flea on the dog means 10 in the carpet. So of these 50 women, I'm guessing there are probably more. Of course there is. Well, what does Felicia Rashad think? We already know what she thinks. She was pretty like walking the line. No, she defended him. She defended him. Oh, yeah, right away. She completely looked like a jackass. And then all of these girls, like the Raven-Simones, the what fucking Rudy? Yes, Rudy. I don't even remember. Keisha something. Yeah, you know, I think they're all, you know, I understand. And by the way, I'm not trying to say that what he did as an actor and a comedian at that time wasn't groundbreaking. I'm not trying to rewrite history and say that he didn't do something that was great for people. But that is not, that does not cover up any of this in my opinion. No. What do you feel like? Do you think now he, apparently this could, you know, depending on what the outcome of this trial is, he could land in jail for 30 years from this alone. Well, honesty is the new provocative now. Like, that's really sad. And of course that there's something that went on and that has gone on for many, many years. And also these people that are defending him. Let me tell you, I did an episode of Two Broke Girls. It was a guest spot. As an actor. Yes, that is brought in. And it was brought in a lot of money for royalties. So of course all these people wanted that show on Nick and Knight. They don't want the show to finish and stop airing with all this drama. Right. So there's a lot of personal gain. So you think there's like an underlying. I think so, of course. Two people who are standing in his corner. Well, I think too, just with the work that I do, there's a lot of people I've worked for that are complete assholes. And I. I can't imagine that in Hollywood. But, but like what we were just talking. I, I still, there's a form of. I think I have to be gracious and not say anything or rock my boat. Right. Because I'm still out in the workforce. Bill Cosby, you know, a lot of these people that are defending him are not saying anything. Or young people and still out there trying to get work. Right. And I think that this is not something that is. I think this is a common thing. You know, it's really a shame. It's really a shame. And I think that, you know, one of the things in my book, Porn Again, you know, was about being totally authentic. And of course there were a number of people who, you know, didn't like the fact. That I was such a truth teller about things that go on. And I really think it's important that everything be out there. And that we be able to be who we are. Be, you know, say things organically. And, you know, not everything's perfect. Like who, I don't want to pretend that everything goes the right way. Your book sounds like reality TV done right. Really? I mean, that's how I look at it. But, you know. Great. Vulnerable. Okay. So another thing. Comedian Amy Schumer. She recently posted photos of herself. On the beach in Hawaii. She was in a bathing suit. I actually saw the photo. She's in a black one piece. I actually thought she looked great. Look it up. Okay. You know, is she, you know, Karen Carpenter? No. But she looks like a healthy woman. So she sort of tried to get ahead of the internet meanies. And she posted the following message. It said, I meant to write good morning trolls. I hope you find some joy in your lives. In lives you've never met. Wait, what did she say? I hope you find some joy in your lives. You've never met who triggers someone. You've never met someone who triggers someone new. I don't even understand this. Something in you that makes you feel powerless and alone. This is how I look. I feel happy. I think I look strong and healthy. And also like Miss Trunchbull and Matilda. Kisses. So basically she put a message out there to get ahead of people making comments about. Anticipating that that would happen. That that would happen. So what do you think about that? The fact that we sort of have to anticipate. That people are just going to come after us. So preemptively we're going to either defend ourselves. Or make jokes about ourselves. In order to stop other people from doing it first. Well, she did that because that's already happened to her. So she knows what's coming at her. I think it's happened to all of us. I think anybody who's public in any way. We've all had people who go on and say. I mean, listen, I get everything. I'm sure you do too. You know, you're over retouched. You're, you know, you could lose 10 pounds. Who the fuck are you? You know, I get. You know, 900 things a day. Fag since birth. Right. As long as people are. That was his favorite from our show. I was a, I was a leather faced fag since birth. Yeah. So thanks. It was my baby photo. We cheers to that one. When he posted his baby photo, we got that. But here's the thing with Amy Schumer. I think too. I think that for her, I don't think that she's really. Necessarily put defending herself before she puts it out there. I think that she's kind of taken the role too. Where she's the voice for all. The girls that, that this happens to. And I think that I, I think there's, there's many layers to what she does. Right. Her comedies that way. So I think that, that a lot of this could be that she's being a voice for girls too. That, that she's, she's being their voice with, with a photo like this. I think this is things that girls. Yeah. All girls go through this. All guys do too. And especially guys that are sensitive. We, we experience it. But I think. With her posting that is awesome. But her actually starting in a negative dark place is probably not ideal for, for me personally. But I haven't been her in her skin. Right. She's very confident with how she looks as all women should be throughout their journey. Just because a girl is a little bit bigger than or like on her health journey. She should be proud. Right. Because she's on that journey. Right. Although I do take a little issue with things like. You know, I don't even refer to her as Gabby Sidibe. She's precious to me and always will be. But, you know, when she made comments because there were a number of people coming after her. After an award show she attended. And she made a comment like, well, I'll just get my, I'll just get on my private jet and fly back. As though that sort of made up for the fact that people were making fun of her. That, you know, she was living well. Yeah. And so, you know, but the point is with somebody like that is she's not healthy. Right. Okay. Her heart is not made to carry that amount of weight. So while I appreciate the fact that people should not be attacking her. It would be great if people could be supportive and at least help her to, you know, get to a, you know, a sensible weight. Because we all know if someone is carrying that much size, it's obvious that there's issues there. Right. So we all should be sensitive about that. Right. So I understand not wanting the negative comments. But then the return, you know, you know, that sort of the answer being, well, fuck you. I'm on a private jet really isn't the answer. Yeah. You know. No, of course not. Okay. So also. Okay. So I mentioned in a previous episode about Ozzy Osbourne and Sharon Osbourne and their alleged split and his alleged affair. I always say alleged because, you know, who knows. But anyway, their daughter Kelly has taken to social media and has really sort of gone after her father. And apparently she went on Instagram and posted Ozzy's alleged mistress's phone number for everyone to see. So what are your thoughts on that? I mean, taking it to that public level. Is it legal? Well, first of all, isn't this their whole marriage? He's cheated on her before. Well, what I don't understand is like how every time I've been around Ozzy Osbourne, he's not even coherent. So like, is there an erection that can happen? I mean, cheating. What does that mean? Emotional cheating. It must be. It can't be physical. I don't know. Or something oral. You know, I don't know. I just, I find it hard to believe that it's happening. Well, what woman's going to do that? I don't know. I'll go there. Really? I can't. Oh. I don't know. As they say, I can't. Well, did Sharon, Sharon. Listen, you turn off the light and any tongue feels the same. But why? Jeez. Go to, go to someone else. But Sharon made this public, right? Yeah. Well, she's been very open about it on the talk. I think there's really no, I think there was no other choice once it leaked out. And I think when you're on a daily show is like, you really don't have the option, but to address it head on. Well, I think that maybe. And she said, well, you know, my daughter's an adult and this is her sense of humor. And I'm sure it was Kelly's. I think it was Kelly's idea of being funny. Yeah. That's not funny. Yeah. It seems a little like it's revenge porn-ish. It's like, you know, having videos of your, you know, it'd be like if God forbid you two were to break up and somebody has a photo of the other naked and you post it. Kelly needs to watch the Kardashians. She needs to learn a few things. Do you know Bria and Chrissy? No, but they sound like they live in the Barbie dream house. They practically do. They're so sweet. Lesbian couple. And they actually have initiative for revenge. They have a lot of revenge porn that people post. Oh, no. So they actually support it? No, no, no. No, that was that girl. That girl from England that they posted. No, it's them. They're bringing it to Congress. Like they're actually against it because one of them was, yeah, publicly shamed. But I feel like that would be such a, I think it's such a fine line because, you know, with the way social media is now and people taking videos of themselves. And putting all kinds of things about themselves out there. I think it would be kind of hard to prove that something was done, you know, it's such a gray area. Yeah. It's he said, she said. Yeah. At this point. The key is don't take naked pictures of yourself and don't send them around. Then you don't have to worry. Do you hear that, Brandon? Listen, as husband, like I understand that. I just want to send them to Kelly Osbourne. Listen, you guys are a married couple who travel and I imagine have to be somewhat dependent on. Technology to keep things spicy and going. I don't know. Maybe you don't. I mean, oh, yeah, I totally believe in that. Yeah. But, you know, it's it's something to be conscious of nowadays with the clouds and all of these things. First of all, I love the idea of clouds that people think it's like exists in the ether. I'm like, you mean like a big server somewhere? But OK, it's in a cloud. But, you know, all of these things where people hack accounts and things like that. Yeah. Like, you know, you want to be sort of discerning and judicious about what you do. But, you know. In a case like yours, like I would say, you know, you kind of got to do it. Well, and the thing is. And you're welcome to send them to me. Well, truly. Feel free, you know. Sharing now. iCloud. If anything leaked that I was sharing with you. Yeah, but it still wouldn't be anything that I would I would be ashamed of. I'm not doing anything that's shameful. I feel the same way. I don't really care because the fact is I put everything out there already. So, like. What? Like, I talk about it all myself. Like, what do I fucking care? And I'm a hairdresser. Most hairdressers have been porn stars anyway. So. Well, look, you have something to look forward to. Exactly. So my last little topic, because then I have a lot to get into with you guys, is the model Black China, real name, Angela Renee White. Because I would love to go through that. No, really? It's like, don't you love when people are Black China? But she's really just Angela. White. White. Taylor Dayne is really just Leslie Wonderman. From Nassau County, New York. Right. You know, good for her. So anyway, she's pregnant with Rob Kardashian's baby. And the sonogram apparently made its debut on her Instagram account this week. So my question is, how soon is too soon to thrust a Kardashian into the spotlight? It's like they are wasting no fucking time. Is the gender even identified yet? I don't know, but it looks really smart for the sonogram. Really? I think it's a smart kid. Well, and I think it's a smart kid. I think it's a smart kid. I think that this one, you know, will be gender fluid. You think so? Probably. I'm just saying. And by the way, all this talk, I have to just bring this up to all this talk about these trans bathrooms and whatever. Like are there so many trans people that I just never knew about? Like I understand that it's a big thing to consider. More and more coming out. That's for sure. I know, but it's like everywhere. It's like, I'm like, I didn't even know there were so many. Yeah, no, I don't know. I think that they've always been there. I think that the bathroom is bringing it out. I'm supportive of everyone and everything. I have a little bit of trans fatigue right now. It's like all over the place. It's like, we've got the, I am jazz. I am Chaz. I am Caitlin. I'm... Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot to handle. Also because as gay men, I'm sure you get it too. But how many questions... I'm not gay. Anyway. Almost did a spit take. I'm like gay. What are you saying? I had a drink. There's so much confusion. Well, we get asked on a daily basis. Well, because also your DVD. People are like, you should have Caitlyn Jenner be in it. Oh yeah. And it's like, well, she's not a drag queen. Caitlyn Jenner to me, I mean, again, this is my opinion, is a fucking moron. I mean, like the things that come out of her mouth. I'm like, you need to just stand in front of Annie Leibovitz and get photographed and shut the fuck up. Yeah. She's highly damaged. She takes a pretty picture. She's highly damaged though. Whatever. I can't with her. I heard she's... I can't with her. What's that called? And that whole car thing, the accent that just like all went away. Like everybody's like, oh, I'm gay. I'm like, whatever. I can't. Yeah. Okay. So let's get to you guys, because there's too much to talk about. So the brand Fit and Fab, P-H-A-B, which kind of describes both of you, I guess. So tell me about the business and how the idea came together and what FAB is an acronym for. You want to go? No, he's asking for FAB and you're the FAB baby. Well, FAB is Pure Health and Beauty. And FAB was pretty much taken by everybody else on the planet. Right. So we had to get creative. Yeah. And our clients actually started it. We shared, we, our individual clients, we started cross promoting each other. They started asking for the other person and then we started a blog and that's how it was born. Yeah, two homos are better than one. Always. Exactly. And with my clients and I was taking care of their fitness as a fitness expert, when they found out that my partner and now husband does beauty... I love how you just said out because the Canadian in you. Just like literally like fell out of your mouth. Totally Canadian. Yeah, sorry. And my boots. Every time I talk to, I talked to my brother on the way here. Every time I talk to a family member back in Canada, the Canada comes out. It comes out. When I used to work at the studios and we would do a lot of locations, you know, we'd shot a lot in Vancouver and people would be like, we're going out in a scout. It's a long process to go out in a scout in Canada. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm not a scout. I'm like, people would be like, we're going out in a scout. Like, out in a scout. It's a long process to go out in a scout in Canada. You love the Canadians, right? Oh, yes. You think they're so cute. They're nice. Listen, even your money is called loonies. And toonies. I know. Really? I passed a store called Amy's Looney Toonie Town when I was there. It's so embarrassing. It's my favorite thing ever. It's so white. Our green cards, for him to be legally be in Canada. Do you know what they're called? They're not green cards. They're maple cards. Really? It's a maple card. Okay, so I'm sorry I interrupted you. So you're part of the fab. So I'm the fit part of the fab. But my clients, as soon as they found out about Brandon's expertise, they were like, oh, my gosh, I definitely want him to do my hair and give me beauty advice and then vice versa. So all of a sudden we shared like 90% of our clients. And then guest speaking engagements, when I would go on and talk about fitness and they'd find out that Brandon does beauty and on TV, they would combine us. So it made perfect sense to do that. So what can people expect from the experience? Like how do you guys work together on one person? Does somebody come to you now and say, I'm interested in, you know, help? And this is like, how do you break that down for people? Well, we're one stop beauty body shop. So you came up with that. Isn't that genius? Well, what's funny is I wrote that and I didn't even read that. Yeah. So I was able to pick that up from what you do. So it's clear. And, you know, we're not sitting there working on the people at the same time. So it's just, it's about people that want two guys that are ahead of their game and experts in their field. And we can take you through a whole entire process from your wellness, your fitness, your beauty, and your hair. And people also bring in like their husbands, like a wife will bring in her husband for a makeover change with us. What a great idea. What happens if somebody is like annoyed with one of you? Like, for example, I'll bitch about my trainer to my hairstylist because they don't know each other. He'll agree. How does that work? Yeah. I'll bitch about their trainer to them. Exactly. You're like, I'm happy to do that. People love that about us too, that we're personal. So is there a price menu? Like, for example, like what would it cost to get my crazy ass together if I were to hire Fit and Fab? You're like, well, you're off the charts. Well, first off, we'll start. We'll start with just tossing that $5 Starbucks drink. And I saw your post today about pancakes for breakfast. Right, but I had a bite of a pancake. I didn't say that. Nobody's interested in knowing about one pancake. Well, okay. I am. But people come to see us. They can do a consultation where we'll be able to. And you're both there. Both there. Okay. Or, you know, if somebody just wants fitness or just wants hair, they're ready just to do one thing. That's fine. But you're not just hair, you're makeup. Yes. And sort of style and presentation in general. Yes, the whole package. So what if somebody comes to you and they're like, I just need a little help with, you know, getting my hair together. And you're like, no, honey, you need more than that. Like, can you recommend, like, is there a graceful way to recommend? Yeah, definitely. And I think, too, once somebody starts a change, even if it starts with something small, you know, it's sort of like when you're decorating your house, you change one thing and the next thing you know you need new everything. So I think that people start feeling good about themselves and then they start exploring other options. So I'm going to assume that some listeners are meeting you for the first time and haven't seen Newlyweds on Bravo, which is a show that you have both been on as a couple and have been extremely forthcoming. So how did the two of you meet, actually? We met at the gayest place ever, Gold's Hollywood. Okay. So at the gym. Yeah. That's where I'll never wind up meeting someone. But that's where I recommend people to meet someone because it's mutual people on a health journey and they have a lot that they can relate to. Yeah, but the person who's going to relate to me isn't going to be at a gym. Trust me. Oh, I'd be surprised. I thought the same thing, though. But you've been married for two years. So tell me a little bit about what it's like to be combining your personal lives and your work lives. I'm sure you get this question a lot, but, you know, it's sort of very, you're very entrenched in each other. Yeah. What balances it out, though, is that I do travel. And, you know, Craig travels. So it's, we're not together all the time. So that really is a balance. But even when we're separated, Brandon, with distance, we still have so much business stuff that is about us that it's really like we're not away from each other. You have to be with your friend. It has to be your best friend. And that sounds cliche, but it's true. And your best friend drives you crazy. Sometimes your best friend, you need to take some time out, you know, for a while. But it's always somebody that you want to share with and you want to work with. That's what makes us, I think, very attracted by couples. I think a lot of couples come to us because they know our relationship is healthy. Right. And that is how our business is able to thrive. Craig and I have amazing communication. Like that's the one thing we do. And we talk about things that, most couples are uncomfortable talking about. Well, different sex, you know. So you think most couples aren't comfortable talking about their sex lives? No, no, no. All right. Well, we're going to get to that because I have a lot to cover there. So what's been the hardest thing about marriage? I mean, I know that we talked about the travel thing. So let's take that out of the equation. But what has been the hardest part of actually sealing the deal? The hardest thing I think is probably planning a wedding as two men. Was kind of tough. Didn't you think? Yeah. Well, you sort of had that disastrous honeymoon. Oh, yeah. We don't even. That's not even. So let's pretend like it didn't happen. I actually, Virgin America sent me a thing. I entered a contest today to win a honeymoon because I never got one. Yeah, for people that don't know, I planned a camping trip that ended up not being really camping, but like parked at a gravel parking lot with like the NR, and like a Raiders tailgate. It was like a party. Yeah, it was horrible. It was hazing, not camping. Are you talking about camping? That's what I did. That's like, to me, like that would be my biggest nightmare on earth. But he liked that. He likes camping. So camping for me. Like camping as in, camping to me means there's no room service after 11. Glamping. I can do camping. Oh, I deliver. I don't sign a room service. I do like camping though, because my family, I grew up in Utah, and my family didn't have a lot of money, and that was our vacation. So we actually, I made it fun. So you sort of understand. Yeah. But I'm a Jewish, okay? It's different. What, Jews don't like to camp? None of them. Oh, really? No, camping is not a Jew thing. Not at all. In fact, I remember one time I was on a camping trip. Somebody, actually we'll get to it, but Ricky Lake, who so nicely gave a quote to the back of your video, which we'll get to as well. She actually took me on a camping trip, and we were in the second day, and I think the second day you get to shower, and you have to put quarters in, and you get hot water for the number of quarters you put in. And then when you're done, it doesn't warn you. It just turns cold. Oh, that's nice. So then you know that you put in the showers. So on the second day, they come over and they said, okay, everybody get on the bus as we're going to the showers. And I was like, if there's one thing you don't tell a Jew, get on the bus as we're going to the showers. Oh no. Oh no. That's horrible. No. I was out of there in five minutes. I was at a resort two miles down the road for the rest of the trip. Oh my gosh. I did Fiddler on the Roof on Broadway. I'm sensitive to that. See, there you go. You basically are Jewish. Yeah. Sunrise, sunset. Okay. So do you guys want to have kids? And when is the right time for that? Oh, we do. Yes. We definitely did. But I had to convince him of that too. Well, so I- You say had to convince him as though like he's going to be carrying it. I'm one of those people- We try lately. I mean- You're like, I try to get him pregnant all the time. Those butt babies aren't working. I don't get it. How did I all of a sudden become the bottom? You guys have a versatile relationship. Everyone should. Yes. Listen, you're preaching to the choir. I would not be with somebody that was- I think there's issues. One way, yeah. But that even goes for like straight couples. Not saying the penetration act, but like even just the submissive thing, I think that is important to have that. But see, I don't even like, I don't, what's funny is I don't even like associating bottoming with being submissive. Right. I think that it gives it such a, it makes it so difficult for people. And it's something that, you know, as gay men, we have to deal with that other couple. I mean, for the most part, straight couples, you know where you're sticking what. I mean, yes, some people might have a penchant for anal sex or might, whatever. But for the most part, you know, with gay couples, it becomes an issue even before they decide if they want to go on a date. I can't tell you how many times- I can't tell you how many times I will get, somebody who would, when I was doing online dating and you meet somebody and the first thing they want to know is are you a top or a bottom? Because if you're not compatible, they're not interested in continuing the relationship because they're so set in their role. And I say, you're missing out. First of all, it's hard enough to meet somebody. Yeah. And second of all, you're missing out on so much about somebody. It's not just about that. Of course, yeah. You know, so I always find it so interesting. It gets great if one, if within a couple, one is totally a top, one is a bottom, one is a bottom. And that works for them, great. But in my opinion, I think there's so much more, so much more fun to have. Why would someone label themselves as one or the other? I agree, but that's why I asked. Not to pry, but to, I think that's an important thing for couples to understand, especially about gay relationships. I think in a relationship too, if you're only doing one thing and you're not giving something else, yeah, the issues are deeper than sex. I just yawned while you said that. So can you imagine how I'd feel actually being in that relationship? Oh my God. Oh my gosh, yeah. Is it a small penis thing? Well, you know what, here's to the- Listen, if you know what you're doing, the size doesn't matter that much, to be honest. I mean, unless it, well- Really? Unless it's a micro penis, like a clinical micro penis. But even, oh. You can work, I mean, you can work with things. I've seen all sizes. Sparkling personality. It still would feel good to your partner or your husband. So that's the thing. You're still giving a part of yourself to your husband. That would feel good to them. So I, but I really think, I think it's associated with this whole masculine, feminine thing that I cannot stand. I agree. And you know, it's just like, what straight people think with us, they'll, you know, they'll clock me as being the feminine. So automatically they're like, are you the girl? Are you the woman? And I'm like, what are you asking me? Am I the bottom, is what you're asking? But that upsets me even more because what that says about women is that they're in a lesser, weaker position, which is not true. That's, that's what we discovered. And I think that's insulting to women as well. Well, I think that that's the- Once somebody says, oh, are you the woman? Meaning, are you the receptive partner? Well, are you the weaker of the two? That's what they're asking. And that's what we think, you know, the main issue with gay men is. It has nothing to do with the fact that we're gay and sleeping with, it has to do with this lack of respect for femininity and women. And that's why- And when women realize that, they get so angry as they should. Right. No, I think it's terrible. Yeah. So, so we were talking about kids. So now is the time we think? I mean- Now's the time to actually take care of Brandon's sister, who's lesbian and married with her and her wife. But you've already, on Newlyweds, didn't they- She had two miscarriages. Oh, okay. So Bravo, well, not Bravo, but the production company really didn't do a proper follow-up with any of that. But unfortunately, Brie miscarried twice. Okay. And I had fertility issues at first. And you were, you were, you were, you were, you were, you were donating the sperm. Yeah. You were helping him to sort of- No, he- Squeeze it out. Well, they imply in the episode that you're in the bathroom. Oh, I was. On that attempt. But after, after three or four times, it was like- It was like, hurry, go. Him and his mom were watching TV in the living room. Like, bye. Yeah. It was horrible. I was like, could you do that while I'm gone? Yeah. I had pictures of like Colin Farrell on my phone and I was- Well, it's funny, there's something not sexy about, you know, when you're having to do, it's like when couples are, are trying to get pregnant and they're doing it on a schedule. It's not, there's something not sexy about that. Try 12 camera people and crew and all that too. That's not sexy. So now is the kid's time soon. So, so I, I'm one of those people that I could live with him. I could live without him. I'm going to be happy either way. He'll live with him. He really wanted them biologically. And I have no need for a biological child. So it makes perfect sense. I have sisters, I have lesbian sisters and you know- We just decided we're going to take care of, of Bree first and make sure that she has kids. So the two miscarriages, it's definitely prolonging what we want to do for our family. Okay. But we're still in that past. We'll stay tuned. So the girls are donating the eggs to us. After, yeah. After you do. After they have a child. Okay. But this is a little days of our lives because then the siblings are also cousins. Yeah. But you know, you're going to have to move to Alabama. The new normal. So, what kind of households were you raised in? So like how will you raise your kids differently, if at all, than the way you were raised? Good question. Well, I'm Canadian too. So we're very- No judging. Well, we're very passive aggressive apparently. Passive aggressive. Brandon reminds me that every day. Geez. Yeah. And what about you? I was, you know, I'm, I'm from an Italian family and- And ex-Mormons. Yeah. And ex-Mormons. I think that- And are they accepting of your- Oh yeah. Yeah. I think what my parents were very young when they had me, they were 17. And I just know that I will, being an older parent, have, I won't be trying to discover myself when my child is also trying to discover themselves. So I think that I'll be able to focus a little bit more on what my kids want and not so much what I want. Okay. Now, Craig, I've read that you've worked as a ballet dancer, a hockey player, a Broadway performer, and a contortionist. The only thing I didn't see on the list was a Reina's Miss America. But I'm assuming that happens somewhere. It's in there. So tell me a little bit about the contortionist business and at what point you were willing to demonstrate that for Brandon and how it comes in handy in the bedroom. Oh, well, good questions. I discovered I was flexible as a young kid. When I was really bored, I would just like put my body into a pretzel form. And so my parents in a small town that I grew up in, there wasn't much for them to do. So they would put on, they would have like weekly shows for all the neighbors to come over and I would just do some crazy ass shit. And so that kept me limber until I started ballet school when I was in my late teens. Okay. And I was even really flexible for a ballet dancer. So that's funny because I didn't finish ballet school until I was in my 20s. You didn't finish ballet school? No. I did it later. Oh, well, I did it later. But later. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Well, I did it later but later it is like – I'm totally kidding. Oh, okay. I'm like – Because late – Late – –for guys – –I'm the least – –coordinated – –ике – –ике – –ике – –ике – –ике – –ике – –ике – definitely my version of the nutcrackers on a dvd somewhere from falcon right anyway um so so at then at what point let's not avoid the meaty part of the question all right um so at what point did you get to experience the the benefits of having somebody who's so flexible i actually think the first time that we had sex no it wasn't no how many times did you date before you had sex oh we we went it was we we did the good it was like two or three no three it's definitely three because well yeah yeah i was not gonna have sex with him if it wasn't something that i was interested in well for a while the first date kind of turned you off from it though right because we went to like half price sushi i took him out to which he was not impressed with that was our first date oh i loved it there i thought it was great and it's affordable half price anything it says like half price sushi that's like telling him that he can go to tj maxx and pick anything he wants and he met me there uh well why did i pick you up clearly you're better at fitness than you are with really i took you the second date was on me and didn't what oh my god did you pick me up i don't remember that detail but i remember that you took me for like an amazing steak that was great and then date six i think it was i remember it is date six when i when i said guess what i'm a contortionist and i'll prove it and then he pretty much proposed at that moment wow yeah that's how i remember it was it was it hot though it's hot yeah yeah okay but i didn't propose right at what point would you say you knew though that both of you sort of knew that this is going to go the distance the moment we met really yeah with the half price sushi and the getting yourself there yeah you know what there was something very different about craig i i actually had been single for a while horrible relationships i'd been through everything i'm and you know i wanted somebody that was going to pursue me had that was nice i wanted a nice person and craig you thought it was a tool though at first well when you when you tapped me on the shoulder because you know look at you i'm at hollywood golds it was my i'm from san francisco it was my first week here and yeah i was like and i was actually training you have the look of somebody who because you're and build and whatever you have the look of someone who could be potentially really that's horrible that there's stereotypes against people like that i guess stereotypes are a big time saver for the most yeah i guess hello and even when we're out you're a tool magnet like you know a lot of those people that i'm sorry that would come up and talk to you would never come up and talk to me well they just would not interesting is like you look at the two of you you're both very handsome guys you have very different styles and very looks different looks to you um and i would say it is surprising when you talk when you get to know you that you guys are such especially the place the kinds of work that you do that could you know people who are typically not that grounded oh right of course and you are you are genuinely nice people with something to say and i think that's not i think that's unique and then to have two people who you know you know then add your looks to that and i get where people might think at first well this is going to be one of those typical couples and yet you're so not you know you're not going to be the one that's going to be that so that would be so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so the Jane Fonda fitness programs, which must be a huge compliment to you. Oh, definitely. You know, of the 80s. And Richard Simmons, it's been compared to his stuff. Like I said, Jane Fonda. What? You don't like Richard Simmons? What? No, he's fine. He's like herding cats. That was the weirdest encounter I've ever had in my life. Just... Oh, he's an odd character, of course. It was the strangest thing No other fitness professional has had as a great success as he has of taking weight off of Americans. And it was because he was a great motivator to move. I'm all for deal a meal. Whatever. I deal myself extra meals a day. But anyway, so this is... It stars RuPaul's Drag Race star Pandora Box with you. Yeah. And you sort of go through and you know, when you watch the CBD, it is funny because it really is like a throwback. It's so much fun to watch. Thank you. So it's like you're actually getting something out of it and it's a good time. Yeah. So people can get it at workoutsadrag.com. And I think they can download it digitally or get a DVD. They can get it streaming or a hard copy DVD. And you know, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that there's a quote on the back from Rikki Link, which makes me laugh because it's like Rikki Link giving a quote to a fitness DVD. Oh, but she is like somebody with no legs giving an endorsement to a swimming school. Oh, but okay. But she resonates with a lot of the people I think that will be looking for fitness that's different. Yeah. Fitness that's fun. Right. In my opinion, that's entertaining is going to get people consistent with the workouts because people are bored of reps and sets. And she definitely creates the illusion that she's down to earth and knows what she's talking about, in my opinion. Well, and drag is all about illusion, Josh. And note that I said creating the illusion. People might want to check out chapter 17 of Porn Again, a memoir available now wherever books are sold. But anyway, it's a great DVD. It's so, honestly, even as somebody who doesn't work out and I didn't do one exercise on here, but I loved watching it. Well, you know, the thing is fitness lately has been so bootcamp and drill sergeant. And bullying. And, you know, this is actually bringing it back to when people had fun and when like aerobics was a thing. And, you know, everything is- It's great. It's like a throwback and yet innovative and contemporary at the same time. It really is like the perfect, you know, if you're going to be motivated to work out, like I would, I'm much more likely to do this than I would do something that's- Well, and we're not going to make you feel like a jackass during it because so many deep fitness DVDs are made by fitness experts for fitness enthusiasts. And what I wanted with this was, was we struggle up there along with you and we allow you to take your breaks and laugh during them. So a fitness expert can do this, this workout and have results, but also somebody that doesn't want to go to the gym or is intimidated by even getting in there. This will begin their program. And did you do the hair and makeup? I did. Yes, I did all- With Anton. Anton did the makeup. I did the hair. And is, what are the drag queens like in terms of hair and makeup and compared to say a Hollywood actress? What's the difference? And then add workout into it. So you're sweating for a 10 hour period. The drag queens are nicer. Well, nicer, yes. But are they more, they probably know how to do their makeup and their hair better. So I would imagine it's a little more like, oh, can you do this? Can you do this? Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely not. Well, Pandora's a little different than even Cake and Lucky. Well, yeah. Pandora, you know, she's a professional. She's seen, she knows her stuff. Yeah. I just helped her out. Yeah. So. Well, I mean, it really is such a great video and you're sort of known for coming up with unique ways that people can exercise, especially during, you know, times where you're doing your day-to-day chores or you're getting, you know, simple, ordinary things done and how you can walk a certain way or how you can even sit on the toilet a certain way. Did you see the shitty workout? Yes. Nice. So, and where can people find those? On YouTube. Right now they're on YouTube, which is under Fit and Fab or even my name, you'll be able to find it. And yeah, I wanted to provide undercover fitness. Right. And it's so smart because there are so many things people can be doing, you know, not even taking time away from their regular schedules and keeping themselves in shape. To me, it's such a brilliant concept. Pump while you dump. Yeah, there you go. You know what? You couldn't, I couldn't have said it better for you. So, so here's, so let's talk about newlyweds. So in, we sort of talked about Brandon's sister and the whole pregnancy thing. So another well-known episode revolves around getting your asses waxed. So whose idea was that? Was that their idea to do on camera or you had said, I'm gonna, well, and it wasn't waxing actually, it was sugaring. And I wanted to have, I wanted to try it. I love how you're like sugaring. I'm like tomato, tomato. It's like ripping hair out of your ass. But they don't heat it up. So it's not warm. They don't have something. I've done it all. Oh, so what did you think? I've done it all. It all hurts. Yeah. You know, I've even had laser hair removal and I got to tell you, you know, I did it five or six times. I'm like, it hurts like a motherfucker. I don't care what anybody says. And it's only somewhat effective, I think. Is your hair coarse? No, I actually have, and with light skin and dark hair, I'm the perfect candidate for laser. Oh, you are. And it like was, the result was so-so. You know, I did like my neck line so that when I get my haircut, I don't always have to have my neck cleaned up, things like that. But it just was only somewhat effective for me. But so it was your idea to do the sugaring. So you make a comment in that episode where you say that he sort of got a little complacent because you were together and he was kind of hair, he had a situation. Right, but for me, I like a hairier guy. Like I like a man who looks like a man. I don't want somebody who's totally like over-groomed. Don't get me wrong. Like there should be some grass on the lawn. Don't get me wrong. I love him hairy. I don't want him shaved. I could French braid it, you told me. Well, but there's also- French braid your ass? Apparently my ass and taint could have been French braided at that point. Well, listen, you know what? Get beads, whatever. Whatever it takes. Beads are fine. That's that shit. Hopefully there's not natural beads in there. You know what I mean? No berries. Dingle berries. Oh no, yeah. So did you have trepidation about doing that on camera at all? Because they weren't, it wasn't like just your cheeks. Like they were in there. Oh yeah, and we could hear them say, get a closeup of his ass. Closer, closer, get it in there. I was surprised how much they actually showed because there is nothing left to the imagination. In fact, I think- We got a lot of trolls on that. A picture of it. A picture of Craig- Oh yeah. That I can show of him getting waxed. Great. And you look so surprised that it was that painful, which I don't understand. Because I never had it done before. It wasn't as painful to me. So what did you do before or you just hadn't? No, it worked out before. And then all of a sudden I'm on this table getting my tape waxed. What do you mean it worked out before? No, it worked out before and I didn't prepare anything. No, but what I'm saying is like, had you ever had been waxed? Oh, hell no. No. No. So you were just like, whatever. And he's the biggest baby. Oh, I don't blame him. It hurts like a motherfucker. Oh yeah. I don't care what anybody says, it hurts. It wasn't that bad. I wouldn't do my whole ass next time. I would just do, I didn't mind doing just the- Babe, I thought I prolapsed. It was intense. So you're saying the cheeks didn't hurt as much. It hurt more than actually having the butt hole waxed. No, I didn't like the grow back to me is not, because guys are different than women. Our hair's not as superfluous as theirs. So it's coarser. And I didn't like the grow back. Mine was better though. Mine was pretty smooth for a long time. So do you still do it? No. So now you're all just natural. I would do it again. You would? Yeah, I would. So how did, in what way do you think it enhanced your sex life? Like what was better about it after your ass- Slip and slide. It's much better. Lube works so much better. It really does. It's true, right? Oh yeah. But isn't there something hotter about like a guy being, like having, like looking like a man? Yeah, but it grows back. I mean, two weeks, I'm back to being, my hairy Canadian. I guess just as a fun change. Yeah. But yeah. Spacing it up. Well, and especially in your relationship, you know, it's like try everything. Well, it's funny. The place I go is a place in the Valley that's a famous called Pink Cheeks. And Cindy, who owns Pink Cheeks, will, you know, tell me all kinds of stories. And apparently there are a number of couples that go in and like to watch their, watch it. They do it as like a, as a couple's type thing. Not that anything sexual goes on in there, but they're, they're turned on by seeing the other partner get waxed. Oh wow. That doesn't work for me. I think I'm good with that. I think I'm good with that. Well, not when I'm like swearing and trying to slap you for making me do it. No, that's not sexy. So I also want to talk about something that went on on Newlywoods. It's a little more serious. You know, I get that the waxing is all fun and games, but Brandon, you had corrective surgery for gynecomastia. I did. I did. And essentially gynecomastia for people who don't know is extra or enlarged breast tissue. So you had it removed and your chest somewhat re-sculpted. Yes. And interestingly, in my book, I talk about the fact that I have been through that surgery three times. Wow. And what's interesting is one of the things that I think is great about the fact that you were so open about it is one, it's not something that a lot of men talk about. I think people are really self-conscious about it. And I think it's something that we're made to feel ashamed of. Mm-hmm. And one of the things I think people don't realize is also that breast cancer is a great possibility in men, just as it is for women. And your choice to be so upfront about it on camera, I think brought attention to something that people need to know about. So when you decided to do that, were you thinking in those terms or were you just like, eh, I'm going to do this and then later realize? No, I was terrified to do it. I was so filled with shame. Right. Right. Because as you know, it's something you spend your whole life hiding. Oh, please. I was in shirts that were four sizes too big. Yeah. I would stand a certain way so that people couldn't see. I avoided pool parties. No pools. T-shirts and pools, by the way. I loved shirts with pockets. Dark shirts. Yeah. You know, so there's just so much that goes into hiding that, that to all of a sudden expose it, clear up even until it, it aired. I remember the week it was going to air and I was like, oh God, I'm going to come into the gym tomorrow and everyone's going to know I had this done. And again, it goes back to, and I think I said this on the show, here I was, I was teased most of my life for being feminine and being not your typical boy and masculine. And now I have a physical attribute that's like, okay, great. Now I'm going to be teased. Right. And it's this whole femme shaming thing. And, and I had a lot of, a lot of, yeah, fear around it. And so when I decided to do it, it was because I knew that there was other people that are dealing with the same thing that, again, like we were talking about Amy Schumer and not that I'm comparing myself to her, but giving people a voice and a platform to be like, wait, I'm not alone. Right. And you would, I mean, the amount of people that have reached out to me have had it done since seeing that. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're able to talk to their wives. They were able to talk to their wives about it because Bravo, you know, a lot of men watch the show with their, their wives. And it's a topic that they weren't going to talk about. Well, and that's why I was so forthcoming about it in my book as well, because I mean, I actually had a plastic surgery addiction. That was one of the things that I, that I did at the time was that, I mean, I also had my nose done and every injectable that you can think of. And excuse me, you know, I've had a stomach, I've had a lot of love handles. I mean, you name it. I was going, you know, I was using it, you know, I was using it as a way. There were a couple of things. One is that I felt like it was making me look better, which would make me more appealing to other people. And two, there was sort of, I was doing it very young and it was before people were just popping on a table and having things done. It was very glamorous at the time. The first time I had it done, I was 18 years old. Really? And I think I'm, I don't know if I'm older than both of you. You're 39, right? So I'm older than you are. I'll be 45. Okay. So I'm between the two of you. But at the time, you know, at 18 going through some of this, you know, people would think that it was a very glamorous thing. You know, oh, you're having this done. You're having that done. And I jumped on the table fearlessly because I thought it was another, it was like a badge of glamor. You know, I thought it was something that made me more interesting to people. At the same time, I was still having the shame and the things that come along with it, with the chest issue. But what happened was once people, once I started to wear clothes that were a little different because I felt more comfortable, it wasn't really like what, it wasn't noticeable to other people before. It became noticeable when I started wearing different clothes and they started to notice I was wearing different kinds of things. Then it became noticeable to people. It wasn't that there was a flabby chest before. Yeah. Really. Your behavior changed. My behavior changed. My confidence level changed. So, you know, it's amazing what it does. Well, and I had a scare. I had, I was finding lumps and I have a huge history of breast cancer in my family. So that ultimately was the catalyst to like actually get me in there and do it because there was also things about my chest that I enjoyed. I was super sensitive. And that is- And it's funny that you mentioned that because at the time, see, you did it at a time where you already had had experiences. I was a virgin. I was a virgin until I was 31 and didn't come out until I was 30. And when I first went in at 18 years old, you know, at the time they were doing it differently. They would cut the underside of the nipple, literally lift the nipple up in order to remove tissue. Now they can go in through, you know, different areas that you, it's not as- I had it for so long that they had to remove eight inches of skin from this side, six inches. I was cut clear across my chest. Across, yeah. So- I think I did it at this age too. Well, and the surgeon that I had, and this is what I told him. I was like, you know, he has a special technique, the technology now, because a lot of people that have had it done when they were younger have come up to me and they're on their second surgery. Yeah, like I said, I did it three times because to me, I never felt like it was good enough. Like it was better, but I wanted it to be perfect. And one of the problems with cosmetic surgery is when you are searching for perfection, which does not exist, you will keep going and going and going and going and going. And hence why Melissa Rivers looks like she does. Anyway. Let's not digress. Yeah, I'm really proud of Brandon for doing that. It changed his life and it helped our relationship. Yeah, it's amazing. And when I saw that you had been through that and I can so identify, but having done it at the age that I did it, I remember my mother being there and I remember her saying to the doctor about my sensitivity in that area. And I couldn't understand what she was getting at because I had had no sexual experience at that point. So I didn't really understand that that was, you know, a zone that was, and it was funny because my mother was on top of it at that time. And she said, you know, if that's gonna affect, you know, whether there's stimulation there or whatever. And it was funny because I had no understanding of why she was even, I didn't even know what she was talking about. Cause see, even it affected my sex life always. Like there were certain positions, certain body ways. It didn't for me because I was already, I had already had it all done by then. No, I was completely. It affects our relationship too. His actual, his actual confidence too. Yeah. Like even in the bedroom, it's improved with the surgery. But living with that and being, you know, before I had that, it, yeah, it was difficult. Picking out a shirt took like sometimes 40 minutes. My God, I would. Same thing. Thank God for Dr. Cruz. Cause he changed, he changed your life and definitely helped our marriage. Yeah. Well, I, listen, I've, you know, I had again, not lucky enough to be married, but it changed my life too. Yeah. Yeah. It's really nice to find somebody who's been through something similar and has been so open about it. Cause even when I wrote it in the book, I felt like I was sort of like, oh, you know, I'm putting it out there. You know, that's the thing. All of the things that I have put out there on TV or that I've said, or that I've done, that was the one thing that I was like, is that, am I, is this the right decision to do? Am I, you know, should I do this? Just because there was so much internal shame. Like it was so deep. Well, I think it was, I applaud you. And I think you're right. Show me your tits, babe. I applaud you. Show me your tits. They're great. I don't, you don't have, you're not on the spot. You can show me later. So we're out of time, unfortunately, which upsets me because I feel like we just started and I can talk to you guys for nine hours. So just quickly, before we go, I just want to talk about where everybody can find you. So workoutsatdrag.com is where you can find the new video. Please. And then fitandfab, F-I-T, and then A-N-D-P-H-A-B.com is where you can find Brandon and Greg. And then if you guys just want to mention, I know you have all your social media platforms. There's so much nowadays. You can just tell people where to find you on Twitter. I am Brandon Liberati at everything on every platform. Okay. And you are? At Crank Ramsey Fit. Okay. And it's S-A-Y Ramsey. Okay. Like Uncle Gordon, Gordon Ramsey. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Well, I thank you guys so much for being here and being so open and honest about everything. And you'll have to come back. I loved it. Yeah. We'll show you our tits next time. Okay. We can do a shit. We can do it. Like we can do a, yes. See, you look better than I do. I'm not taking, I'm not lifting my shirt. I'm still healing. Yeah. But you can't really see anything. You can't really tell. It looks great. Great tits. Yeah. Yeah. I told the surgeon, I was glad I did it now because it's so much more developed. Yeah. Well, you look great. So you don't have to worry about it anymore. All right. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. The No Holds Barred conversation continues 24 seven on Facebook at Josh Sabara author and Twitter and Instagram at Josh Sabara and then buckle your seat belts for some titillating real talk. Porn Again, a memoir by Josh Sabara is available now as a trade paperback, ebook and audio book.