International psychology with Dr. Leslie Brown

Hello, I'm Julianne Good and this is Psych One-on-One. Welcome. We are here to make psychology more understandable with tips for you, your family and your friends to make your lives easier. Tonight, I'm going to be talking with Dr. Leslie Brown about international psychology. As the world starts getting smaller and we're being more interconnected through the internet and other venues, I think it's important that we kind of understand how other people from other cultures think and feel and whether Western psychology really fits into those modes. Sometimes we have to come from admiring and respecting their own culture and then working to increase their mental health. Tonight, Dr. Leslie Brown, I'd like to introduce her a little bit. She is the... She is the president and director of MindBody Passport Incorporated, designing and leading international study abroad trips worldwide. She also serves as the director of international seminars and guest professor at Sigmund Freud University in Vienna, Austria. International psychology and developing psychologists without borders has become her focus. Dr. Brown has been in private practice for over 20 years, has been a research psychologist for the Neurological Institute, and has served on faculty at UCLA Medical School teaching psychology and rapport building techniques to medical students. Dr. Brown was assistant professor at the Chicago School and director of Centers for International Studies. Welcome, Dr. Brown. Hi, Julie Ann. Thanks so much for having me. It's just a pleasure and honor to be here. Can I tell your audience that we personally know each other as well? And how we came to know you? know each other. That would be wonderful. Well, part of what you said is psychologists without borders and learning about the world and psychology and mental health through other cultures. And I had the pleasure of having you on how many study abroad trips now? Four? Four. Actually, three officially and four to check out the PhD program at Sigmund Freud University. Yes. Three officially and one quasi unofficially. But nonetheless, you're someone that I would not have otherwise met. Our paths probably would not have crossed had it not been for a international program that I was running. So my pleasure, my passion is bringing people together from all over the world. And as you know, you know, the last few trips that we've been on together has been through my own company, MindBody Passport, where I have people from literally every corner of the world coming on trips. I first started out doing this for a university. And went out on my own several years ago doing this. I have been traveling the world much to my parents' dismay since I was 17 years old, living and working in and out of Europe and all over. So what I came to find through teaching in universities, Julie, is that people can sit in a classroom for an entire semester or year and read textbooks and learn about cultural diversity or just about any topic in psychology and the world today. And that's great. But unless you actually step in country and find what's there and find your place in the world and understand what it's like to be the outsider and living in another culture and working in another culture, even if it's a short trip like the one to two week trips that I run, it makes a huge difference. And when students and participants come back and tell me, oh, Dr. Brown, excuse me, I learned more from you on this trip. In 10 days than I learned in a whole year sitting in a classroom, it makes it all worthwhile. Yes, it does. Yeah. So it's been fantastic. And I have, because I'm abroad so much, I make it my goal to meet people and bring people together in different ways than you would get together, whether it's at a university here in Los Angeles or a seminar. I think the last trip I did in Zurich, we had a winter intensive at the Carl Jung Institute, which I really wish you could have come on. Me too. But next year, I'm getting you on that one. Yes. It was fantastic. I had people from Brazil, from the U.S., from Canada, from Ireland, from Europe, from Central America, India. I mean, literally all corners of the world. And to get like-minded, intelligent people together and have these learning, growth experiences, I know it sounds a little trite to say it's transformational, it changes your life. It does. But it truly does. And people often say, oh, Dr. Brown, what's your favorite international seminar that you do? Where is it? And well, that just depends on the last place I stepped off an airplane, because the truth of the matter is they're all my favorites just for completely different reasons. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I would like to go back and... I remember the first trip that we had together, which was at Tavistock Clinic in London, which is one of the premier psychological clinics in the world. Yes. A lot of the Western psychology was born there because the fathers and grandfathers and grandmothers of a lot of these techniques that we still use today came out of that clinic. And I must say, even though it was coming from a... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So coming back to coming back to coming back to coming back to coming back to coming back coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming psychology, which I don't practice. It was a work study group. And I got to really get some concepts down about doing group psychology because it's the same thing, but you have to take it to up to a certain level and then you have to stop it because you can only go so far with the psychology of it. But just the techniques and the facilitators were so incredible and just meeting people I would not have otherwise met unless I had gone on that trip. And then we did the great thing. It's beautiful. Yeah. And the field trips that we did, the museums that we went to and the London Eye and there's so many spectacular things that we did and saw and learned from that trip alone. And I thank you for that. Well, you're welcome. And it's my pleasure. And we continue to do trips with Tabasco. You know, if your listeners are psychologists, they would know Melanie Klein, Wilfred Beyond, John Bowlby, Winnicott all came out of Tabasco. And the really special thing about doing it is, I mean, even if we had that seminar close to home and everybody went home to their families and dinner and whatever their evening routine is, it would be different still because part of the learning, I truly believe, and we were talking about this last night, I did hosted a webinar with one of my partners in Thailand last night on applied mindfulness. And we were talking about what happens over dinner or over lunch or while we're walking to the van to go on some excursion. And the group dynamic of the people you're with and the things that come up from the material that we've gone over and learned and immersed in in the day continue to evolve and you continue to process it. And here you have this whole group of people that are doing it. And I think that's a really good thing. And I think that's a really good thing. And I think that's a really good thing. And I think that's a really good thing. And I think that's a really good thing. And I think that's a really good that are experiencing it at the same time as you are. And so much of the learning happens, you know, in a cafe or like I said, over dinner, that it's a really amazing, spectacular experience to go through. And actually, my next training with my Tabasco partners is going to be in Thailand. We're doing it retreat style. And it's the Tabasco model of reflective practice, work discussion, and it's going to be in Thailand. And I think that's a really good thing. And I think that's a really good thing. And it's going to be in Thailand. And it's going to be at an amazing private villa in Thailand. So people will get an opportunity to sit with the trainers and the professors over lunch and dinner and the different excursions that we do in Thailand as well. And really immersed in this topic. So it's fantastic. And I'm not sure you're aware yet, Julie, but we're approved by the Board of Behavioral Sciences at the State of California to give continuing education units. So. So licensed marriage family therapists, LPCCs, LEPs, LCSWs can all get virtually their year's worth of continuing ed units in one trip. There you go. Yeah, that would be, and a working vacation at that. And a working vacation. Right, and an experience you'll never forget. Very true. Yes. So many of my participants go on to land jobs and spectacular internships because of their experience of having studied abroad. And it's really important today, the APA, which is our governing American Psychological Association, mandates that we need to have cultural diversity and international experiences. And there was just a series of articles over the last year or so that they came out with talking about students in grad school that don't have international experience and don't take advantage of study abroad experiences. And they're saying that students in grad school are at a disadvantage to their peers that go on study abroad experiences. So even our APA tells us that we have to have international experience. And just as you said, I was nodding my head, although you couldn't see me when you were talking about, you know, the world has gotten to be a smaller place. We are global because of the internet. It's like people that you wouldn't be able to contact, you can contact. Where before it was, you know, weeks worth of letter writing and back and forth and things took such a long time. You can develop relationships and continue them because of the internet. And it's just been wonderful. And I know, for example, you really keep in contact with a lot of the people that you've traveled with on the various trips you've been with on me. You've got friends in Japan now and I mean all over. So that's great. And Iran and Turkey and Greece and New Zealand. And I know it's wonderful. I know we email or we keep in touch by Facebook and, you know, just touch in every once in a while and see how each other, how we're doing. And, you know, I'm planning on doing international work ever since I went to London and then went to Vienna three times. I was like, that was it. I was hooked. I was like going, okay, now I'm getting to know where some of these places are and I can just, I can go and travel by myself, which would have been unheard of. And that was a huge step for you, Julie, if we think of the first time that you traveled and the nine million questions and fears and anxieties. And that's perfectly normal. Most people have those fears and anxieties and you've just overcome them and come so far. Which reminds me that I wanted to tell you about some research. I've been doing, and it's called Travel Psychology. I've been researching what travel and immersing in other cultures on trips like mine actually do neurologically for the brain, for the health, for your health and all of that. And what the research is showing me is astounding, that travel actually makes people more able to problem solve. More able to... It increases creativity. It also increases intelligence. And if we think about practical situations when you're traveling, and I can think of something with you specifically, where you were staying outside of the city and you had to figure out something that seems so simple, like navigating from point A to point B, but in a different language, in a place you're not familiar with. Oh, not so simple, right? Exactly. Especially in Vienna. In Vienna, they have a tendency to be more bilingual, German and English. But once you start traveling out of the city, that's not the case so much. Exactly. So, yeah, I had a hack through German. It was very interesting. But, Julie, I saw your skills and problem-solving abilities and the way you would have handled that four years ago to now, and it was like night and day. Yes. Thank you. So, I see this live and in action. And I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing. Creativity, problem-solving skills, so many things change in you, and there is so many subtle shifts just from immersing in another culture, taking yourself out of your comfort zone of, you know, from home to car to freeway to office to friends to all your familiarity. It really does change people. Yes, it does. And I would also like to add something to that, Leslie. I've got a multicultural textbook here. And I read this description of the multicultural personality. I'm like going, this is perfect. So, I'm going to just read just a little bit of this, okay? Okay. It's Ponderota. Characterize an individual who possesses a multicultural personality as emotionally stable, is secure in her or his racial, ethnic, and other identities. Embrace. Is diversity in her or his personal life and makes active attempts to learn about other cultures and interact with culturally different people. Has a spiritual essence with some sense of connectedness to all persons. Has wide-reaching empathic ability in multiple contexts. Is self-reflective and cognitively flexible. Has a sense of humor. And is a social activist empowered to speak out against all forms of social injustice. I thought that was beautiful because I thought that is it. That is fantastic. You need to email me a copy of that. That just really eloquently sums it up. It really does. You know, when we're sitting at a lecture or a seminar and someone from another culture is the lecturer, it's a completely different point of view. And we have to be aware of that as therapists because we don't know what's walking into our office next. Right. We don't know what cultures and what views. Different people have. And we need to be open to it and flexible. And to truly be multicultural, you know, I often say that, you know, I've traveled so much. In fact, I think I just logged 220-something thousand miles for last year. Wow. And I say, well, nothing will surprise me anymore. But that's not true because every time I walk out the door and get on a plane and wake up in another country, you know, I laugh. I say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And we'll have coffee in Paris. It's true. But I learned something from the work that I do, the professionals that I meet, from the guy in the convenience store that I go to in another country or the taxi driver. There is something to be learned everywhere we go if we just allow ourselves to be open to it. Yeah. And allow the process to happen. And the way I like to state it is going into a position where you're not just a person into a different culture and immersing yourself in it, kind of becoming a chameleon and just, just watch the way that other people interact with each other and, and, and try to understand it and maybe just be a little quiet and, you know, try to get your needs met and, you know, in a, in a nice polite way, because I, that's one of the things that I've learned traveling over to Europe is that the level of politeness is just at a different standard and a higher level. And you have to be able to be able to react rather quickly to, to changes all the time. I mean, that was one of the things that I learned from you too, is that you, you know, you're in a different culture. You cannot sit there and plan for every waking minute. It's not going to happen that way because plans could change all the time. Weather can change. All the time. It's things that we're not used to, especially being in Southern California. You know, it's just, it changes all the time. Especially you, you have to be so open and flexible to be able to, to, to maneuver all these different peoples and changes. Well, that is a skill that all of us psychotherapists should possess is flexibility. And we'd be surprised how inflexible we are until we go and park ourselves in another country. And you're up. Absolutely right. I mean, I think the first thing that I tell people when I'm giving them like some pre-departure information is capital letters, bold, italics, large font, flexibility. Yes. Because as you said, flights get delayed. People don't operate on the same time clock. Us Americans, especially in a big city like LA, we like things fast. We like it the way we want it. And you know, the, the saying from the fast food special orders, don't upset us here. It's not like that in the rest of the world. And people get upset and don't know how to handle that or, or order something special. And it can be done, as you said, if you do it with grace and good manners and a smile on your face and try and learn like two or three words in another language. Hello, please. Thank you. How far does that go when you don't know the language with somebody? Yes. Very far. You'd be surprised. Yeah. It really does. And I find that most people, when I travel are so nice and so forgiving to tourists, as long as you make the effort, you know, and I tell people we are guests in another culture, so they don't have to adapt to our ways. We have to adapt to theirs. And you know, it's different and people want to rush and they want their bill right away so they can go on to the next thing. And I say, no, no, no, no, no. Sit, relax. A coffee in Vienna could be two or three hours. Exactly. And I'll tell you, I often experience reverse culture shock when I come back to my Los Angeles home that I'm like, wait a minute. What do you mean? The bill is here. We're ready to get to go. I mean, it's a big change for me. So I've really had to learn to adapt, to go back and forth to several different cultures. And that's sort of become my way of life. I mean, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I usually leave my watch on European time and I'm always on jet lag. So it doesn't really matter what time of the day it is. You can call me in the middle of the night because chances are I'm somewhere in the world and it's the morning. Yes. And you have texted me at 1 to 2.30 in the morning, my time, and here it's sitting in the garden in Vienna in the morning and sipping your cappuccino. Wishing you were with me having coffee. Exactly. I know exactly where we'd be in Hotel, Vine and Design in the garden. Yes. Yes. And I love doing business and meeting with colleagues and organizing my next trips and journeys for people in Europe or in Asia. I'm in Asia quite a bit now too. It's so different. We sit, we actually get to know each other. We have coffee together or at the end of the day, it's customary to have a glass of wine. Yeah. We come together with lecturers and participants, students. It's very different and it's a nice way of life. And I think that everybody should have an experience like this. I agree. I agree. Well, Dr. Brown, when we come back, let's talk about the different psychological components around the world that you've noticed. Okay. Okay.! The Chicago School of Professional Psychology offers numerous psychology, behavioral and health-related science graduate degrees at three campuses, Los Angeles, California, including branches in Westwood and Irvine, Chicago, Illinois, and Washington, DC, and online. The Chicago School prepares students to meet the ever-changing mental health needs of society through classroom experience and real-world training. Thank you. The Chicago School Counseling Centers in Irvine and Westwood provide caring, confidential, and affordable psychological services to individuals and their families. For more information, visit thechicagoschool.edu. And thank you to the Chicago School of Professional Psychology for sponsoring Psych One-on-One. This is Julianne Good, and I am back with Dr. Leslie Brown. We are talking about international psychology. And right before the break, I was talking to Dr. Leslie Brown, and I was asking you about different components of different psychologies around the world. What have you noticed with all of your travels? Well, I have noticed a couple of things, and I always take my participants to a few different clinics in Europe. One, they are very much in tuned to trauma psychology, and they have something, a phenomenon in Europe, which we don't have so much here, asylum victims. I think that's a great question. Yeah. And I think that's a great question. So at any given clinic throughout Europe, the clinic probably offers 20 to 30 different languages in psychotherapy. That's amazing. Meaning that, you know, 20 different cultures and different countries can come there because they have psychotherapists that speak those languages. And that's really important. And something else that really sticks out to me, well, two things. One is the differentiation between saying, I'm a psychotherapist and saying, I'm a psychotherapist. And I think that's a great question. I'm a psychologist or I'm a psychotherapist. In the U.S., those terms are quite interchangeable. I could tell you I'm a psychologist, which means the same as psychotherapist and vice versa. In Europe, that's not true. Psychotherapist is psychotherapist, and psychologist is researcher and academic. Completely different. The other thing is, I think that, and no offense to our universities or training institutes or professionals. But I think that's a great question. And I think that's a great question. So I can see coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming studying psychoanalysis at a university or gestalt therapy or family systems, doesn't matter what your field of study is, you have to have many, many hours of psychotherapy. And that has long been one of my biggest bone of contention in the U.S. system is that not all universities today require that. And how can we be effective psychotherapists without having gone through psychotherapy ourselves? Exactly. You need to know yourself and you need to know the process. You need to know what it feels like to be in the patient or the client chair. Because when the roles are flipped, then you know what your patient or your client may be going through because you've been through it yourself. You've been through the process. Absolutely. I totally agree with you on that. It's very serious. You know, you can apply to a university, but you must have the experience. You have to have these hours and it's part of your schooling. It's just a mandatory part. Because a psychotherapist, even, you know, we have to have our own process of growth and development and continue that through supervision because we're all humans. And there are certain topics and certain conversations and certain dynamics between us and our patients and the world at large that are going to touch us in different ways and push buttons. And it is just crucial. And it's just a very important thing for us as a society to have. So, I really embrace that system and I'm a huge advocate for it here in the U.S. Even if your university doesn't require you to have it, you must have it. Yeah, I agree. And I've, the students that I've been in classes with, especially in my master's program, half of them dropped out because all of a sudden they started processing their own problems. Right. And they just like, I can't handle this. And they dropped out, which is probably a good thing. Right. Because, you know, I think if, you know, if you're not ready, you're not ready. And not everybody's ready to do this profession. It can be very difficult because you're hearing a lot of stories that are negative and traumatizing or micro-traumatizing. And you have to kind of build up the toughened skin and yet be supportive to do the profession. Right. Well, we are at risk as psychotherapists for a high burnout rate and also, you know, for being traumatized through the stories and the work that we do. And it's just crucial that we have self-care and take care of ourselves as well. Number one. There's something else in Europe coming up that's really interesting to me in terms of psychology, and they're calling it memory culture. And I'm doing some research now and doing a presentation in Amsterdam in a couple months on how we as a society, process trauma in public spaces via, like, monuments, graffiti, artwork, and that sort of thing. And I've been interested in it in some time. And then when the Charlie Hebdo bombings and killings happened in Paris, which was right near my apartment there, I started taking pictures throughout the city of how we're processing that. And it's a huge thing now. And as we can see over the last, you know, 20, 30 years, we have been processing trauma in public spaces. We have this boom of monuments and memorials and different things that we, as a population, a world population, a global population, have started building and rebuilding. And each decade, a different viewpoint, social viewpoint, goes into the monuments. So I think it's really important to look at society and cultures as a whole and how we process events in the world that happen to us. And I think that's something that we need to be really focused on. And I think that's something that we need to be really focused on. So I've been really quite interested in looking at that. I'll be lecturing on that, like I said, in a couple months in Amsterdam. Yeah, I definitely would be interested in hearing that lecture and seeing what your research results have transpired. So now, as listeners out there are thinking, okay, how is this, how does this impact my life? And like every day of, you know, how do I think of somebody next to me? Maybe what they're thinking and they're feeling and they're a different culture. And, you know, of course, with, you know, with us in this country, we've had so much Western psychology and that's, you know, it hasn't gone much further than that for many people. So what do you think other cultures bring into, like, the United States psychology world? Oh, well, we've got, you know, a huge movement. In fact, it's gotten sort of faddish and pop culture-ish with mindfulness and yoga and meditation. But the Eastern philosophies bring so much to the world of psychotherapy. You know, not every patient and not every person meets the same problem in the same way. In other words, there's many ways, like nine ways to skin a cat kind of thing, right? Right. We as psychotherapists need to have lots of tools in our toolbox today. And to say that you're eclectic, where in my day when I went through school, you know, 20 years ago or more, it was like a bad word. You couldn't say I'm eclectic. You had to make a stand and make a commitment. But today to be eclectic is really what you should be, in my opinion, because you just bring so much more to the table. So I actually work a lot in Eastern philosophies on, my Thailand seminars and retreats, which I'm doing again this May. And we look at applied mindfulness and a lot about how the Eastern philosophies meet the Western philosophies and how we can apply that in our practices and also for self-care, which is crucial for therapists as well. So every culture brings something different to the mix and we all interpret and use it on our own. So we're all different people and cultures in our own personal ways. But definitely Eastern philosophy has made its mark on our Western culture. Yes. Yeah. And I was just noticing that the Dalai Lama is going to be lecturing July 5th in Southern California. So I'm hoping to go to that. Yes. And you know, Julianne, we are here in Southern California. I think I read something in the L.A. Times last year that said that more than 70% of people who are in the L.A. Times and more than 70% of the population of Los Angeles is non-Caucasian. And almost that much spoke was Spanish-speaking. And I think it was another 12% was mixed other, you know, a potpourri of other languages. So it really behooves us all, especially in a mixed culture like Southern California and Los Angeles, that we learn to speak other languages and really learn about other cultures and be open-minded and flexible. So what's coming into our practices. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the whole thing, too, is learning from other people, from other cultures expands our worldview. Absolutely. Yeah. Just it's so beautiful to be, you know, open up to those new experiences and to share. And it's really expanded your world as well. Yes. By travel and learning. And it's really changed how you see yourself. And it's really changed how you see yourself. And it really does change you. It did. I came back a different person every time. I was a lot more attuned to what was going on in the world and around me and how different people interact and just so much more aware. And it was beautiful. And I can't wait to go back. Well, I can't wait to have you back. I'm trying to get you back in April. I know. Yeah. More like September. September is good, too, Julie. It is. So where do you see psychology going worldwide? I see psychology in so many different ways worldwide. Right. In fact, I was at a... a summit in Paris last September on the future of psychotherapy. And they were talking about a lot of trauma and migration issues that so many people, political and, you know, religious asylum, are seeking homes and refuge in other countries outside of their culture that they really felt that that was the biggest growing field in psychotherapy. Okay. I think it was... I think it was a big one. I think it was a big one. I think it was a big one. I think it was a big one. I'm trying to remember my numbers. I have a good memory, but I may not be exact on this. Over 50 million people a year were migrating from outside of Europe into Europe. I don't know what the stats in the U.S. are, but it was quite big as well. And that tells us that we all need to be globally aware, multiculturally competent. And that's a big word, multiculturally competent. It is. And to find that is... It's tough. But I'm not sure that we are all prepared in the way that the world needs us to be prepared for these different migration and asylum issues. And with the rise of terrorism and all these different terrorist attacks, it tells us, as I was talking about in memory culture and how we process trauma through public spaces, because in the last 20 years there's been so much of this prolification, and building of monuments, it shows us that cultures are trying to process and come to terms with events and traumas that happen in the world. And the difference, too, between societies. I mean, you know, we in the United States are so individualistic and independent that if something traumatic happens to us, a lot of times we'll just isolate and, you know, try to hide away from other people because out of shame, guilt, and just being overwhelmed emotionally. Now, other cultures, they have a tendency to bond together. And can you talk about some of the, like, bonding things that other societies do after a traumatic event? I mean, like, say, the Paris, the... Charlie Hebdo. Excuse me? The Charlie Hebdo in Paris. Yeah, the protest, where it was, what, 3 million people there? Well, the protest was actually right near my apartment. And I remember calling my daughter, who is in university there now, saying, you know, you've got to go around it with that place de la République. But, you know, people come together in crisis. And if you look at, like, 9-11... It's true. You know, we do come together. And we find a way to process that. But I think what's different is there was such a banding of solidarity. And they had, you know, everyone started saying, Je suis Charlie, which means I am Charlie. But there also, I have to be honest with you, tell you, there are some groups of people in France that are not Je suis Charlie, that are quite the opposite. Or have a fear of pronouncing that they are one with Charlie and all of this. But, you know, there's some scary things going on in the world. Streets that I've walked for 30 years now have military on each corner in Paris. And the airports are full of military more than ever before. And I think that people need a way to process that. And I see it popping up all over with the art and the graffiti. And, you know... As Freud said, of jokes, that people make jokes and caricatures and that sort of thing. And it's our unconscious talking. It's a way to bring up what we wouldn't normally bring up. That a lot of these caricatures that are coming out in the media and just popping up in different venues in Paris now is really the collective unconscious of the people talking through these caricatures and kind of jokes that they're making about stuff. I did a presentation on something called social dreaming last week at Sovereign Mental Health in Culver City. And I talked about a couple of tribes and different things that use this thing called social dreaming where a society or a group talks about their dreams and processes them. And there was a tribe in Malaysia that archaeologists found like in the 1930s. And it was this remote tribe. And they found that this tribe had not had any violence or crime in over 300 years. And what they found was that dreams were a really important part of that culture and that every morning families would sit around and talk about their dreams. And then the head of the household would take those dreams to the tribal council and talk about them. So clearly they were processing their murderous rage or... You know, these dark thoughts that we as human beings all have that is a natural part of being human. And that helped the society to not have crime and violence for 300 years. I'm not saying that that's a cure-all, but we have to look for new and different ways for us as cultures and societies to process what's going on in the world today. Exactly. And bond in a positive manner. Right. Exactly. Well, Dr. Brunette, I'm going to ask you a question. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. We're going to come back after this music break, and I'd like to talk about your trips that are coming up and how people can get involved. Great. Thanks, Julie. Are you searching for answers and insight to life issues? Is the behavior of family or friends questionable or concerning? Find tips and possible solutions from the convenience of your own PC, cell phone, or tablet at therapycable.com. Therapy Cable has the most comprehensive library of services. You can find a full list of services and information on the library of contemporary therapy videos online. Help may be as easy as a few clicks away. Therapy Cable offers comprehensive therapy videos ranging from addiction to self-care and contact information for qualified providers. Find the answers to your life challenges at therapycable.com. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And Dr. Brown, can you tell us about what trips are coming up for the MindBody Passport? Coming up in April 19th through 26th, we're going to be in Vienna for an existential analysis diploma with the world-renowned Dr. Alfred Lengler, who is a friend and colleague of Viktor Frankl. Fantastic human being. He's wonderful. In fact, I think you took a couple classes with him. I did. A whole day. Yes, a whole day and evening with Dr. Lengler. Yes. He is an amazing man to study with, and it's a very prestigious program that we're doing with him. We're thrilled and honored. So that's coming up in April. I think at this point, I only have one space available for that trip. And then in May, we are back in Thailand. And we have three courses this year running in Thailand, because Thailand's been such positive. It's been a very popular program for us. We have our international annual applied mindfulness, our sixth annual retreat, the Destination for Peace, which is wonderful. We also are doing something on, actually, what I was just talking about, social dreaming, psychodrama, and drama therapy. And then we are also having our Tavistock Center London group come over to Thailand, and we're having our Tavistock. So we're going to be doing a lot of that. And then we're also having our Tavistock model reflective practice work discussion groups training there. So we'll be in Thailand May 15th through the 23rd for three separate trainings. It's a great, great... I mean, we are very fortunate that we have this amazing, wonderful villa. In fact, the last person that slept in my particular bedroom at the villa was President Obama. So it is a very luxurious villa with private staff and private chef and on the beaches. It's a very, very nice place. And it's a very, very nice place to be. And I think that's what we're going to be doing. And I think that's what we're going to be doing. And I think that's what we're going to be doing. And I think that's what we're going to be doing. So coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming about the future of psychotherapy for our summer school there and then the end of July and early August we have our annual international summer school in Vienna this year the topic is psychoanalysis the footprints of the past through present practice and this year I'm really excited because we're taking a day trip to the Czech Republic to visit Freud's birth home and museum there so when we do some great great excursions on all of our trips so if anyone wants more information about that or to jump on a call with me and let me find out a little bit about your needs and and how I can help you that would be great my website is www.mindbodypassport.com and you can email me and I'm happy to schedule a one-on-one call with you at info.mindbodypassport.com that's wonderful and I do highly encourage taking those trips now can in does a person have to be a psychotherapist at all to be able to take advantage of these trips absolutely not if you're a psychotherapist and you need CEUs you definitely get that portion taken care of we offer CEUs for you but I have people from all walks of life who are taking those trips and I'm happy to help you. I think you'll remember a few years ago we had a gentleman who was the head as the CEO of a large corporation in Europe came he had just retired at 60 years old and was always interested in psychology and he's been on several trips with us I have teachers attorneys doctors average people that are just interested in joining a great group of people that are looking at something interesting and you know I love to combine all of that and I think that's a great way to start your day. Thank you so much for joining us today and I hope that you have a great day. Thank you for having me. I hope that you have a great day. So coming back coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming coming!passport.com. And what's also wonderful, Dr. Brown, is that you do some local speaking in Southern California, correct? Yes. And then that's another way to meet you and talk some more in depth about the trips and try to figure out, you know, which trip you'd like to do. And because the beautiful thing about these trips is that, you know, you arrange your own airfare. But once you get there, everybody hooks up at a certain location. And then you start having dinner. And you have a meet and greet. And then there's so many activities that you plan that, you know, a person can do or don't. They don't have to do. Or, you know. It's just so encompassing. It's a wonderful experience. Well, thank you, Julie. I love doing it. Like I said, it's just my passion and my joy to do it. Yeah, and I'm doing also, if your listeners want to send me a note, I'll put you on our mailing list because I've started a series of new free downloadable e-books online on many different topics that are available, as well as I've been hosting every couple weeks some free webinars online, which have been really great and really successful, and I've enjoyed doing them. So those are all other ways that you can get on board and see what we're all about and get to know me a little bit as well. And get to know so many people from different walks of life and from different countries. It's amazing. And as we're ending, I just want to talk. I want to talk about the experience, the last experience I had at Sigmund Freud University for a week. It was 17 students from 20 different countries. And it was just amazing. It was taught in English. And, you know, everybody had different levels of English capabilities, and sometimes they'd stumble a little bit on a few words here and there. But, you know, everybody would help each other, you know, with the language. And it was amazing that... I remember that, Julie. That was a beautiful moment for, I think, all of us, for me anyway. I think I was doing a group at the end of our week-long seminars there. And I said, wait a minute, before we go, I want to know how many different cultures we have here. And we went around the room, and everybody said, I'm from here, I'm from there, I speak this, I speak that. And I had my assistant maybe counting. I have it on video. It's a really amazing video, that last hour of our week there, talking about the different cultures that all come together. And we all love it. I mean, we look forward to it year after year. And we're learning from each other because there's so many countries that are just beginning on the path of psychology. Yes. That's true. So join us on one of our trips, and we can all talk Julianne good. Our lovely talk show host into coming on another trip, which really she doesn't need talking into. She just needs to find the time in her busy schedule. And the money. Well, that's always, we always find the money for that. We find money for things that are important to us. Yes, we do. So thanks for having me, Julianne. This has been lovely, and I appreciate all your listeners. And I really look forward to getting some emails in my inbox and meeting new people. Yes. And please. Please contact Dr. Brown. And just feel free to just, you know, get some more information from the websites. And look at some of the videos from prior trips. I mean, it's just amazing. And our Facebook page is pretty active if they want to look up MindBodyPassport on Facebook as well. Yes. Thank you so much for being on, Dr. Leslie Brown. And continue to have safe travels. Thank you, Julianne. I really appreciate it. It was great. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye-bye. And thank you so much for joining us on Psych 101, even though I'm slightly losing my voice right now. It happens sometimes. It's allergy season. I just got back from Phoenix from doing EMDR training. So that was a little intense. But anyways, thank you so much. I am on live every other Monday night now. And it will be archived onto the iTunes store and at skidrowstudios.com. I'd like to thank Cheyenne Hayes for being my board op tonight. You did a great job, lady. It's always good to have you on board. And thank you so much to Jeremy Hansen, our executive producer. If you would like to contact me, my contact information at my Irvine office is 562-234-4650. My email address is jgo.com. That's J. O. D. E. Eight at Verizon.net. Please contact me if you have any thoughts or questions. Or you'd like to come and get some counseling. Please call me anytime. And also friend me on Facebook at Psych 101. P. S. Y. C. H. One-on-one. Thank you so much. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Bye now. . . . . . . Thank you.