Reverend Murray on fire, faith, and community

Homeboy Homeboy Homeboy Homeboy Brothers, there's only one blood Cuz there ain't no sense in us Traveling on the stones It's us, down, down to the bone Blood is thick Waters were known well Cousins were kept apart Mothers were often Memories Fathers were not favorites on the farm For he could do some harm He could wreck them after skiing For he, brothers, could dream Homeboy Your mama ain't no saint Your daddy died in a shallow stream But your uncle, Dr. King Didn't have a dream, my brother And what is your real excuse? Why can't you study your lessons And stay in school? Why can't you study your lessons And stay in school? School Free love And sex ain't nothing but a game Don't never last Try hope Take a chance on love Register to vote Money ain't everything But you could buy her a ring Little blackbird Sing Buy you a record of a yardbird With wings Get into the swing of things Homeboy Buy some tenderness for a change Homeboy Homeboy's work Your history is all about you And it's not too late Your uncle, Dr. King Wrote a book called Why We Can't Wait Homeboy Birmingham was yesterday The mad dogs, the mad dogs Came to call on your mother's mother And sister Your granddad had the blackened boots You know what I'm saying Cause it ain't but one blood It's called fight for Homeboy by Sunji Ali Welcome to the Coon Round Report May the peace and blessings Of the life-giving creative spirit Be upon you and upon your family My name is Melvin Ishmael Johnson Coming at you live from Skid Row Studios And I'm in the studio With my co-host Earlene Anthony This week on the Coon Round Report I'm delighted to have a conversation With Reverend Cecil L. Chip Murray He's the author of the book Twice Tested by Fire Which is Reverend Murray's Chronicle of the Inspiration And the life-giving creative spirit As well as the challenges That shaped a ministry Widely credited with helping To heal a fractured metropolis His insight into the legacy Of the civil rights area And socially engaged Christianity Provides timely instruction To a new generation Rising to the task Of ensuring that the American dream Of equality and justice For all is not forgotten Also sitting in For a roundtable Discussion is Andy Griggs Of ICUJP And Pastor Brian Eklund Of New City Paris Also in the house We got Mary Ann over there We got Miss Mello Brother Muhammad And AJ They'll be joining us For the second half of the show When we open it up For a roundtable Welcome to the Coon Round Report Hello, hello, hello everybody Thank you Now, Reverend Eklund Reverend Murray I want to start off with you Can you tell What is socially engaged Christianity? Socially engaged Christianity Answers the question So often asked Jesus Jesus, why have you come? I have come To help the helpless To heal the sick To lift the fallen To set the captives free To give sight To the sick To the blind Hearing to the deaf In other words Social gospel reaches Beyond the walls of the church In my 27 years At our city's oldest black church We had a beyond the walls program Some 70 programs Where each member of the church Was asked to join One of the 70 task forces So religion within the walls Is not a task force Is not true religion Until religion within the walls Also becomes religion Beyond the walls Out in the community Yes Now, let's talk a little about What is the meaning of the title of your book Twice Tested by Fire Yes, we are all Tested by fire We learn in the process If we are people Of religion People of God That God is not a person God doesn't save us From the fire God saves us In the midst of the fire One of those two testings By fire in the book Regarded to Oxnard Air Force Base, California I was in our two-seated Jet fighter interceptor plane And we were navigating a takeoff Pilot in the front seat Radar interceptor officer In the back seat It was a model Where you could shoot down Enemy aircraft With a radio radar Radar was just coming under Vogue then Hook on to the other enemy ship And then the missile would be guided By radar to the ship We did not navigate the takeoff Because the front tire exploded The plane skidded And caught on fire Bursting into flame In the front seat George Burbage The pilot My friend Young white man from Texas Was able to get out Because the cockpit Only opened halfway I was trapped In the rear cockpit Fire surrounding I knew that I was in serious trouble When as the Lord is my witness I heard a voice speak to me With clarity Settle down Take off your helmet Take off your parachute Take off your life vest Now there's a tiny crack At the bottom of the canopy Between the canopy And the fuselage The main body of the plane Stick your head out Going backwards Put your head in that hole Push Push Push Pretty soon I was standing on the wings I heard George Burbage The pilot yelling Chip Chip He had slipped in the fire And was a burning torch I ran to the end of the wings Jumped off Went to him Threw him to the ground Rolled his feet over and over Until the end of the wings And I was in the air And I was in the air Until the fire was extinguished They took him to San Antonio From Oxnard Air Force Base To the burn center there He asked the Air Force If they would fly me out Because he knew he was dying They did Four days later Standing by his bedside He said Chip I just wanted to tell you I wasn't deserting you I was trying to get back To help you I was trying to get back But after I got out When I slipped and fell in the fire So out of that come two convictions That I must live by To help my brother To help my sister To help my friend The other fire was April 1992 When Los Angeles exploded A result of the Rodney King verdict The city was on fire We had gathered at First Army Church where I was pastor, the mayor and all, because we had planned the night of the sentencing to muster. Then we would send out 10 groups of six men each to 10 different spots. They were to keep order. They were to make certain that we did not erupt as we did in 1965, as Chicago did in 1965. But by the time we got word of the fire, it was too late because the city was ablaze. It was like inferno down in South Central. And the fires had come all the way up to Adams Boulevard. So we took about 100 of them. And we took 10 men and lined them up between the firemen who were having rocks hurled at them. They said they wouldn't come unless we could give protection. And I told the firemen we would protect them. And we stood between them for about two hours while they were putting out fires and the young gang bangers. Then we started moving and scattered them from behind houses and trees. And so forth. Life saving. We cannot expect to be saved from the fire. But we have to learn how to save in the midst of the fire. We're going to always have hot flames scorching. But somehow or another, with the power of God, we can put out the fire and go on to a better culture. Wow. Now you are a military veteran from the Air Force. Just like, you know, I come out of a family of military veterans. Out of seven males and two females, six of us served in the military. Yes. Two in the Air Force like you. Yes. Three in the Army. Wow. And I served in the Marines. Right. Now I would like to ask you, what are your thoughts on the military as an option for some of our young men and women? Because when I was coming up, during the Vietnam era, you had a situation where a lot of young men would catch a case. They would get into trouble and the judge would tell them, you can either go to prison or you can go to the military. And the military in a lot of cases really turned their life around when they became men. So what are your thoughts on the military as an option? The essence of the concern is discipline. Mm-hmm. Our young people, they don't need order in their lives. And they don't need it with the strap or the switch or the belt buckle. You start early enough with them and they'll be able to get the culture that you're talking about. When it comes to the military, here at the turn of the century, we have a decision to make. Because for the first time in the history of our planet, we have the culture of the military. We have the capacity to destroy the planet. Violence, like war, we got to find an alternative to that. Domestic violence, we have to find an alternative to that. It's totally unfair for a male husband to afflict female wife. Violence in the police power, power corrupts. Lord Acton is right. Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. We give the police power. We must give them power. But the question is, who will protect us from our protectors? Who will defend us against our defenders? So we have to find a way to rear the next generation without violence. We have to find an alternate to the prison system, where America leads the world in prison construction and prison confinement, and California leads. And here in the United States of America, one million black men are in prison at this tick of the watch. 90% of them, they're for substance abuse crimes. And the Federal Judicial Council says for a white man to get the same sentence as a black man for substance abuse, the white man has to use 100 times as much powder cocaine as the black man uses crack cocaine. basically the same. So when we look at that inequity, Proposition 47 is coming up now. Proposition 47 has six categories where you can take what are now strict punishments for violent crimes and more move them down to non-violent crimes. That'll save us infinitely because it costs $25,000 to $40,000 a year to keep a man in prison when for $15,000 a year could keep him a year in education, in college. So the money saved there will be used for those non-violent criminals to give them mental health training and all. And we've got to pass Proposition 47 because the prison system is not working. Texas needs to be- It's the nation in capital punishment and yet it does not reduce crime at all. California experimented with the electric chair and with pills that would take you out and that hasn't really worked. We have to find a way to replace capital punishment. We have to find a way to differentiate between violent and non-violent crimes and it depends on us. Okay. I would like to read, I would like to have Earl Leans is going to read a small section from your book and I want to come and ask you a question and comment about it. I'm deeply flattered. The switch was used to punish. Typically the young transgressor would be sent into the backyard to select a suitable instrument. Not too small or too fragile. From one of the trees growing there. Seldom was the switch required in our home, and when it was used, its application was restricted to the rear end, or the hand. The threat of punishment alone was enough. Mother did most of the spanking, father corrected misbehavior with a mere look, one that said all that needed saying. Okay, I want to ask you a question. Please, go ahead. Please, go ahead. Please, go ahead. Please, go ahead. Please, go ahead. about your thought on corporate punishment since it's in the news with the football player Adrian Peterson. Yes. For whipping his son. Son, yes. It looked like a threat to his career. Can you comment on that? The culture is new. The culture has changed. My generation had a culture where the nuclear family was intact. There was father, there was mother, brother, sister, there was love. But not only was there the nuclear family, there was the extended family. And the extended family didn't have to be the bloodline of grandparents or aunts or uncles and cousins. They were included. But your extended family would be the neighbors or any adults who knew you already. I saw you. We walked to school, seven blocks as I was a kid going to school. And that morning early, adults would be out on the front porch in front of the house and all. Some getting ready to go to work, some doing. But you better speak to every single one of them. Hi, Mr. Smith. Hi, Ms. Smith. Hi, so and so and so and so and so. And if you showed off and acted the fool, bad news would beat you. You would be sent home even when there wasn't telephone. We didn't have telephones as yet. The grapevine would beat you. And there would be some type of chastisement when you arrived home. The teacher was highly respected. Ms. Clayton was so beautiful, our third grade teacher. And all the boys used to just sit and look at her. Lord, one day Ms. Clayton put her foot up on her chair. And you could see her legs showing. She says, now you young men, you pay attention because you're going to learn in my class. And that book, you'll get what's in that book before you get what's here pointing to her leg. And every teacher you have would tell you, you're going to learn in my class. And college wasn't college. College was 13th grade. You going to college. And going to college, you needed a good grade point average. And it made. And you going to have a job. I had a job from third grade up until my age 85 right now. Always there was a work ethic there. So there was the family. Now it causes you utter pain. The American divorce rate is 50%. And among blacks, 70% of black babies today are born to single head of household. That miscarriage. And the American family, the American family has to be a blessing father. A million in jail with others. Double the poverty rate of American poverty. Triple the unemployment rate. The family then has to become the church family. The education has to have after school training. The extended family must be the men of the church, the women of the church, who will mentor young people up and coming. And the first thing that we do is we reinvent ourselves in the 21st century or we will destroy ourselves. Mm-hmm. Now next I would like to, that's what I want to talk to you about. After school programs in underserved areas. But first I'd like to play a short two minute clip from Tony Brown. He's the executive director of OLA, Heart of LA, which is an after school program in the MacArthur Park area. When I asked him the same questions about it. Now how can we create, how can the city create more after school programs like OLA, especially in gang infested area, since we know OLA went into a gang infested area and was successful. How can we use that as a model for a lot of the little areas in the city of Los Angeles? Sure. You know, I think one of the things that we do, you know, is to start with someone who really, really cares to spend consistent time with the kids in that neighborhood, wherever that neighborhood might be. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think the consistency is key when you're starting something out. Now I get it, you're a volunteer, you have other things you have to do. You know, my predecessor, our founder, probably ran into the same challenges when he was first starting out at Heart of Los Angeles. But if you're going to be a volunteer, you're going to be there on a Saturday, be there every Saturday. Pick one day a week, start that way. Don't try to say, oh, I'm going to start this nonprofit and I'm going to, you know, open the doors, I'm going to be here every day, and we're going to make this work, and this is going to be incredible. Do what you can do and do it consistently. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, these kids rely upon a lot of hope. You know, hope for an alternative, hope for a brighter future than the one in which they're living. And we're talking about going into gang infested areas, not going into gang infested neighborhoods. You know, they've been let down many times in life. And that's part of why they've joined the gang. Because the gang has come in and said, hey, listen, I know this person's let you down, I know that person's let you down, whether it's your parents, your school, but don't worry, me and the homies, we're there with you. Mm-hmm. You know, we won't let you down. And so if you're going to create something, make sure you don't overcommit and do what you can do and do that consistently. I think that will help you launch something that kids will want to come back to. Because trust is a major issue. That's what's been broken. You know, I think, you know, our country has this social contract that we're going to take care of our children. You know, we're going to send them to schools that are safe. We're going to, you know, create neighborhoods and parks that are safe for them to play in. We're going to give them outlets to where they can be creative and express themselves without being bullied for it or without being, you know, jumped into a gang. We're going to do all these great things. Well, you know, if you're going to take care of them, take this on and recognize that you have a responsibility then, right? To be consistent and to be someone that these kids can trust. Okay. Can you comment on what it takes to put afterschool programs in these underserved areas? In the underserved areas of America, the dropout rate is 50%, particularly in the black and brown communities. 50% who don't finish high school, the majority of them dropping out in eighth grade. Now, this is really cruising for bruising because in a lifetime, a high school graduate earns twice as much income as a high school dropout. And a college graduate earns three times as much as a high school graduate. So what we have to do is go into our congregations. 95% of congregations in America are 200 members or less. 50% of congregations are 50 members or less. But whether you have 50 members or 150 members or now the mega church movement, 2,000 members or more, somewhere in your congregation is a teacher. In a larger congregation, there are teachers. And if you don't have teachers in your congregation, you can go to a mega church and borrow from them four or five teachers who will volunteer for teaching after school is out. Then you get to know the parents of the children. Is your child having trouble in school? We'll be here from after school to 6 o'clock or whatever time. Okay. Then we form a children's commission that will bird dog it and all. It's a matter of desire on the part of the faith-based system to do other than meet on Sunday. Work with those kids. Get those kids some education. And then they'll be all right. Okay. And I think we have a caller. Who do we have on the line? Georgiana Williams. Hey, Georgiana. How you doing? Hi. I'm blessed. You have a question for Reverend Murray? Yes. Reverend Murray, I want to thank you first for all the work you did in our community. Thank you, Georgia. And do you have any suggestions how we can have a successful after school program in the Florence and Normandy area so we can get our kids to stop dropping out of school and clean South L.A. of drugs and gangs? Are you living in that area? Not right now. I'm in Vallejo, California with my six sister. All right then. Because we have several organizations in South Central that are doing a fine job. Because I wanted to recommend if you know of a church in that area, contact the pastor. Ask if you might sit with him. Because it starts with you. You care. You get him to get the people involved. Then he can get the men of the community to walk through the community and talk to the young men. Get them into an after school care program. Mentor them. Meet their parents. Because that is something that will make a difference. The men are willing to do it. It only takes leadership. Talk to the mothers. The mothers want to see it change. But it takes leadership. It takes a Gloria like you. Gloria, Gloria, hallelujah. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me. Let there be peace in the hood and let it begin with me. And there's enough worker, there are enough workers in the church to make a difference in their community. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for calling in. You're welcome. God bless. God bless. Bye-bye. Just a couple more questions and then we're going to do a community calendar. Then we're going to open this up. How important is accountability in dealing with resource development and fundraising? We have gone from showing off time to having a community calendar. And we have gone from having a community calendar to having a community calendar. And we have gone from having enough time to show time. You see the preacher with a yellow suit on and a yellow handkerchief waving it and making the people shout, laugh, scream and all that, then collecting the money. Our two greatest challenges in the pulpit are ego and greed. And the only way we can counter it is with accountability. Not to account the ability of the preacher, but accountability. Account for every single penny collected. A commission on finance that is trustworthy, including one or two people who are business savvy and will know. The money that's collected makes certain it's counted properly with witnesses, taken to the bank, accounted for, the pastors held responsible. And is not to be the one counting the money. And then the receipts and all are given to him, the information. And the information is to be given to the budget committee. We're to have audits of the money. We don't have to tell a pastor of intelligence how to have accountability. We have to just tell ourselves, in this church we're going to have accountability. In this organization we're going to have accountability. There is no such thing as one person handling the money. Or this person and his flunk is handling the money. We have a budget. We're going to go by that budget. Therefore we can give. And as people give, they will get receipts and accountability for everything they give with audits. And until we do that, we are only going to fail. You know what the dropout rate is in churches in America? 60%. 60%. 50% of Americans will tell you one thing. But right now, 96% of Americans believe in God. But 50% of Americans will say, I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious. They don't like the way we religious folk act out God's word. They don't like us rogues and showing off time. Instead of showing off time. Okay. Let me ask you this, Reverend Murray. I know that you have talked to four presidents. You know, I think the two Bushes. Yes. President Clinton, President Carter. Yes. I don't know whether or not you had a chance to talk to President Bush. I don't know whether or not you had a chance to talk to President Obama yet. No, my successor did. Okay, wonderful. If you could give him some advice, what would you give him about impacting the young people in our community? What advice would you give him? The president? Mm-hmm. President Obama. Because I think the president is looking now at boys and men of color, a national program. Because the black man is facing some challenge. And our black boys in the age category 18 to 30, the two leading causes of death among young adult black males, homicide and suicide. And the homicide is not necessarily white on black. Yes. It is not necessarily some whites who will hang and shoot blacks. But it is us killing us. And with suicide, there was a time when we didn't even think about suicide among black folks. Honey, put it in the hands of Jesus, or the Lord will make a way somehow. The Golden Gate Bridge, people used to travel all over the country to the Golden Gate Bridge to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and commit suicide. And in all the years of the Golden Gate Bridge, we used to joke. That there have only been two black folks going off the bridge. One was thrown off and one was blown off. That just isn't our thing. But now they have no tomorrow. They have no future. And it's up to us to make certain that they have a here and now and a tomorrow. And we can do it. Okay. Let's take a little short break for our community. Okay. We're going to talk about the community calendar. And then we're going to come back up and open it up. I want to talk about community police relations, all that kind of. I want to get into that a little bit. This is the community calendar for upcoming events. You're asked to save the date. Sunday, October the 12th, 2014. Interfaith Communities for Justice and Peace, ICUJP, presents the George F. Regas Courageous Peacemaker Award. And this award is going to be presented to Reverend Dr. Cecil L. Chip Murray for his public faith and his dedicated advocacy for all people as a contemporary prophet of socially engaged religion. Also, a special leadership award will be presented to Congresswoman Barbara Lee for her tireless pursuit of peace. 530 p.m. is ticketed. Reception. 7 p.m. is free public program. The location of this event is home in United Methodist Church, 3320 West Adams in Los Angeles, California, 918. There's going to be much more entertainment and activities scheduled for the evening. So we ask you to please contact www.icujp.org slash RegasAward2014. Or call 213-748-1643. And we're going to have more information on that coming up shortly. Upcoming guests on the QMRAWN Report, Monday, October the 6th, will be Ted Hayes, longtime activist and founder of Dome Village. Monday, October the 13th, 2014, John Malpied and Arietta Bowers, founder of the LAPD, which is Los Angeles Poverty Department of Justice. Thank you. And you're listening to the Congress Poverty Department Theater. If you have a community event that you would like announced on our show, send the information to Drama Stage 1 at Yahoo.com. Attendant Earlene Anthony. And the call in number for our show is 800-893-9562. Now back to our host. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Earlene Anthony. Now just one more question I want to ask you before we open up the... Okay. round table and can you talk a little about biddy mason and the founding of fame biddy mason was a slave woman who was taken by a mormon slave caravan from the deep south up to the san fernando valley she did not want to ride into slavery so she asked the master if she could walk as a sheep herder he gave her permission so she walked that some 2 000 miles on the trip rather than ride into slavery while when they arrived the emancipation proclamation had been signed setting slaves legally free she knew that the slave master was mustering the slaves to take them back to alabama the deep south rather than obey the new constitutional amendment so she and three other women the slave master was mustering the slaves to take them back to alabama the deep south managed to escape and were given protective custody in the los angeles county jail the chief jail keeper said he understood and so he locked them up and then after the caravan left to go back south she was released she went on coming to los angeles and working as a midwife and rather than accepting money she accepted land and payment for her services she became the first black wealthy woman and then the territory of california and one of the few wealthy women period down on 7th and spring street there's the biddy mason wall which is celebrating her contributions because out of the of her wealth she helped the homeless and the poor and the hungry she started a church in her home later to become the first black church in los angeles later the movement was to 8th and town street after her death many will remember bishop h h brookins reverend h h brookins Brookins was pastor there. Then in 1968 they moved to the present location of First AME Church on South Harvard near Weston and Adams and that is the history. But she says we have to understand with Biddy Mason that's right. It is the open hand that is blessed for with the closed hand nothing can get out but nothing can get in either. Biddy Mason was a rare human being. Beautiful. Awesome. Andy Griggs over here at ICUJP. Can you just tell us a little about the ICUJP and the Rieges Awards that's coming up? Sure. Well let me start with saying that ICUJP is the first place where you can get a doctor's certificate of service after you've been here for years. The first place you can get is the ICUJP actually stands for something. It's called the Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace. ICUJP was started shortly after 9-11-2001 with a group of religious folks from a variety of churches, local activists who knew that the US response was going to be one of . . . . . . . . . . . . . Revenge, Islamophobia, and war. And, of course, we know what happened. And they decided to unite behind the slogan that religious communities must stop blessing war and violence. In the years that followed, they've been doing a number of things, whether it's civil disobedience against war, working on programs against torture in 2005, joining with the National Religious Campaign Against Torture to work on that. Doing programs working against solitary confinement as torture. Also working in the community. And when it's interesting that one of the things that we did is we changed the words of socially engaged Christianity to, in the way we talk about it, as socially engaged religion. Because we are a variety of religions. We've got people around our table who meet every Friday at 7 a.m. for those of you who would like to join us. And we're going to talk about that. And we're going to talk about that. And we're going to talk about that. And we're going to talk about that. And about four years ago, we established, on our 10th anniversary, we established the George F. Regas Courageous Peacemaker Award. It was named after, and the first awardee was George F. Regas, who was one of our founders, our main founder. And who was the one who called the people together to start this organization. And since then, we've given... We've given the award to a variety of people. Reverend James Lawson. Dr. Hatut Meher. Rabbi Leonard Bierman. And Aisha Mason have all been awardees. And this is our fourth year, and we're very excited to give the award to Dr. Murray, to Reverend Murray. Thank you. Thank you. I want to encourage people to... Really come to the evening event. You know, it is a fundraiser. It's our major fundraiser for the year. And, of course, it's important that the people can come to the reception. But we're almost sold out for that. But we want people to come to the evening program. And all of our evening programs for the awards have been free. Because we believe that everybody should be hearing the words of these prophetic leaders. And I am sure that that program is going to be one that is amazing. The Holman Choir will be there. And it's just going to be an amazing program. And so at 7 o'clock, you can do that. What's the address again? It's at Holman United Methodist Church, 3320 West Adams, LA, 90018. And also, if you are interested in... Registering, because we do want to get some RSVPs for the evening program. You can go to icujp.org slash Regas Award 2014. And that's spelled R-E-G-A-S Award 2014. Okay. Thank you. Pastor Brian, can you... Tell us a little about New City Parish and your relationship with Pastor Murray over here? Ooh, that relationship goes back a few years with Pastor Chip Murray. You know, I was called to St. Mark's Lutheran Church in 1977, a small Lutheran inner city congregation in South LA. And it was quite an experience, really, for a white pastor to come into the African American congregation. And it was a community in those days. It wasn't that far from 1965. There was still a lot of emotion running high in our communities. And the truth is, up until that time, I had really been mentored by all white pastors and seminary professors. But it was my people who steered me to look in some other directions and to see some of the other folks in the neighborhood that were doing ministry. And interestingly enough, I think that word pastor became... very, very important. On the one hand, pastor, and on the other hand, prophetic. And it was pastors and prophets like my friend, Pastor Chip Murray. I think back to another pastor that was a very big influence in my life in those days, Pastor Tom Kilgore, that some of your listeners will well remember. Pastor Jim Lawson. Mm-hmm. And some giants who just... Just to see them... And to see the way they understood their ministry in churches that, as Pastor Murray has said, churches without walls, in a sense. You know, there's a big discussion going on about some of the churches that are getting re... The architectural design is being redone so that they can be closed walls and bring everyone inward again. And what I found when I came in 1977, what I was led to see by my folks in my congregation, were pastors... who saw the walls of the church that needed to go down and to flow into their communities. So I'm so grateful for that. For Pastor Murray and I, that began especially around 1984, because the Olympics are coming into town. And it's what brought a lot of us together in a collaboration to see if we couldn't work together and help our communities in some ways to benefit from that economic... blessing that it was supposed to be for our communities. And New City Parish was the same. It was the same kind of a gathering. But that happened some years later in 1992, when May the 1st, actually, when five Lutheran pastors got together after the civil unrest, which had occurred for those three, four days prior, and said, what are we going to do? Let's pray. We have to pray and think about what we can do differently. We can't go on with business as usual, working alone in our small congregations, acting as if nothing outside the walls really affected us. And I think that's what we need to do. And I think that's what we need to do. And I think that's what we need to do. And I think that's what we need to do. So we formed a coalition that very day. And it built and built and built over the years and said, we have to find out what can we do together, better together than we can't do alone. And we're still looking. We're continuing to do that 22 years later, still looking for others who will join us in that work to say, what can we do together to serve our communities? We looked at four areas. We said there are four legs to our table. In essence, economic development was one, social outreach for our families, social outreach for our children, social outreach for our children, social outreach for our families, social outreach for our folks to bring health care and food services, education for our children and for our adults so that they can improve their lives. And one of the biggest ones that I've continued to work with up to this day is cross-cultural understanding. How can we break down the barriers between our communities? Because you may remember in 1992, we saw Korean shop owners on the roofs of their buildings with guns to protect their buildings against Latinos and African-Americans. Right. And we saw the same thing in the case of our brothers and sisters. So we've continued to this day to work on those four areas. We now have eight parishes that are working together from Compton to Inglewood to Pico Union, South Central L.A. Okay. And back to Biddy Mason, one thing that I forgot to ask about Biddy Mason, when I was reading about her, one of the things that really stood out is that she was fluent in Spanish. And I always wondered here on the West Coast why the African-American community didn't stress learning Spanish. Yes. Especially now, you know, with immigration, the huge Hispanic population, you know, sometimes the lack of communication. Do you think that's a big need for the African-American to become fluent in Spanish again? Yes. One of our next priorities simply must be black-brown communication. Right now, there's tension when there should be togetherness. In prisons, they have to put Latino prisoners on one floor, black prisoners on another floor, or else there will be turbulence. We are at the bottom. For the first time in our nation's history, in 2050, blacks and browns will be the majority and whites will be the minority in the population. So we have to come to understand that the white majority has the power and is going to keep the power. And if we keep hurting each other and keep hurting ourselves, it won't matter that we outnumber the power elite because we are not going to be able to do that. Right. We are not going to get any of the power as long as we fight each other. We're going to have to come together, work together, help find jobs together, education together, and stop afflicting the afflicted. Okay. And now for the roundtable, what I want to open up a little about, I want to know, because, you know, I've been working down in the Skid Row area for eight, nine years. Pastor Brian, he always brings students down there. And one thing I notice is about the huge percentage of African Americans, probably 80, 90 percent, living in the tents on the streets down there. I want to open it up and get some discussion on what do you think it would take to integrate the homeless of Skid Row back into the community? It's a roundtable. Right. Well, there's a lot of chunk that has to be answered. But overall, I think it's a great question. But overall, to spearhead a coalition of organizations, which is what we are hopefully planning on doing October 23rd and 24th, is organizations that's been there for so long, who's doing the same mission. We have to stop separating each other. We have to work together. There's a lot of things to say that we want change, but to actually take action to do it, what is how many people are actually going to actually do that? There is a plan in order. And sometimes the messenger comes in a form that's not as usual as someone who may say, oh, well, this person is not on my level, so why should I hear what this person has to say? And I get that a lot. But overall, the vision of coming together is the only way we can spearhead this project. Building education, makeshift stuff, things that you already have as resources. You don't have to talk about funding right now, but if you put together a project, the money will come. But if we have separate projects and we're all working separately, it's getting harder to get to the goal. The goal is educating our people, and that's what we try to do. Let me ask you, since 90% of the people living in the tents and on the streets are African-American, should the African-American leadership be spearheading this? Absolutely. Not only that, they should be the ones that's encouraging others. Because if you think about it, black communities see Latinos as a competition, rather than the same brotherhood. If you put it together, then things will happen. But we have had so much history of starting with slavery, civil rights movement, a lot of negative backlash that we don't even want to work with each other. And the point is to work with each other. Once we start that, then everything else will fall into place. But until that wall is still there, things will always be separated, and we'll always have turmoil in our neighborhood. Okay. Mayor, you want to? What are your thoughts on what it takes to integrate the homeless of Skid Row back into the community? Well, I happen to be Puerto Rican, and Puerto Ricans come in all colors. We're from light to dark. Yeah. And the thing for me is, I'm a light Puerto Rican, and I get a lot of racism in the community. Even though I'm a homeless advocate, I'll be coming and bringing, and I'll be bringing food and clothes and water. The person who is out in the street has so many struggles already that it's very difficult for them to open their hearts. So you have to talk to them and be willing to spend the time and the energy to tell them, we're here because we care for you and we want to help you. So tell us what you want. And then from there, there has to be somebody or something that will go do what they ask you for. Okay. All right. Yes, we have 3 million homeless people in our nation, the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world, 500,000 of these women and children. We have the resources to do something about it. But what happens is we need the faith-based community to work to make certain that the resources are put in place. All you need is a homeless... A homeless commission in your church, no matter how large or small, a homeless commission. Then we come to Skid Row. We used to come once a month and bring a couple of hundred people, food, clothing, so forth, help to find jobs, going to corporations and asking if they would give so many interest-level, entry-level jobs for the homeless, maybe 1% or half or 1%. Okay. Okay. Okay. Something like that. If we really begin to care, we have the resources. I think it's also interesting to look at the history of how we have been approaching the issue of homelessness. One was the initial thing was to build shelters, just get them off the street, right, or put them in jail. That was the other way to house them. The second was now there's more of a movement to really, really provide services. Interestingly enough, I read yesterday about what Utah did. I don't know if any of you saw that article, but Utah decided instead of having services, and then they would learn about how to deal with finding a home or finding a job, they gave them homes. They literally gave them homes. Shocking. Homeless person needs a home. Right. Right. Homeless person needs a home. And then begin the training on how to find a job, how to maintain, what the responsibility, what the relationship is to the community. Okay. Wow, we're winding down. We've got less than a minute. Wow, I really want to get into police-community relationships. I think it's a very important issue, but that's probably a whole program talking about that. Okay. I want to give about 15 or 20, 20 seconds for a final comment from Reverend Murray over here. Can you give us a quick little final comment? Yes. Lord Acton was right when he says power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So you've got to have accountability. We have grown immensely from the Charlie Parker days and his mentee, Darrell Gates, days in our city. Now at our county, the jail system is very abusive, and we are getting ready to elect one who will really go out and bring reform there. But we, the police system is now abusive, powerful, and no accountability, and we must move in that direction. Okay, thank you very much. I would like to extend a special thanks to Reverend Cecil L. Chip Murray, Pastor Brian Eklund, Andy Griggs, Miss Mellon, Mariana, and all of you. Thank you. Thank you. We've got Brother Muhammad over there again, and AJ over there. Please listen to past shows of the Qumran Report by Googling in Qumran Report. Next week, Ted Hayes is going to talk about the Dome Village and immigration. Now thank you for tuning in to the Qumran Report, and from your host, Melvin Ishmael Johnson, my co-host, Earlene Anthony, may the peace and blessings of the life-giving creative spirit be upon you and upon you as well. on your family, I leave you with a song that opened the show, Homeboy by Soonchie Ali. Homeboy. Homeboy. Homeboy. Homeboy. Brothers, there's only one blood cause there ain't no sense in us traveling on the stones. It's us down, down to the bone. Blood is thick. Waters were known well. Cousins were kept apart. Mothers were often memories. Fathers were not favorites on the farm for he could do some harm. He could wreck them and have to ski.