Interview with restaurant owner Yasmin Sarnati

Hello and welcome to the life of an entrepreneur. I'm Jan McCarthy with Entrepreneurial Voice and we are here broadcasting live from skidrowstudios.com and this is live radio on the internet and we're here every Tuesday at 11 a.m pacific standard time and we're here to talk about entrepreneurship and the journey that one takes when they begin this this profession and share any kind of business tips and what what your life is like and if you have any questions please give us a call at 1-800-893-9562 and today I'm very very excited to have a special guest and friend who is the owner of Church and State and her name is Yasmin Sarnati. Sarnati. Sarnati. Sarnati. I'm sorry I don't have my glasses on and I didn't I didn't remember so anyway welcome I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you it's so nice to be here Jan. And you're here with your husband Tony and chef and so it's going to be great to talk about what it is that you do what your life is like and how you got started so in that vein tell us Church and State it's a renowned restaurant it's delicious it's in downtown Los Angeles and you started it in 2007? 2008. September of 2008 is when we opened at probably the worst possible time in our economy. We started building out a couple of years before that it took longer than we had anticipated. So a true visionary and a pioneer and did everyone say you are crazy? You know some people did probably more people did than I realized because I just didn't really listen to it. I was pretty focused. On what I wanted to do and I had been for about five years I've been looking thinking about it then starting to look them working toward it and about two and a half to three years you know working on the project raising money and then building out. So if I had listened to any you are crazy it would have just stopped me in my tracks it took you know a while to get it going and during that time you just really have to. Stay very focused on your vision and determined on your ability to do what you've set out to do so I'm sure a lot of people said I'm crazy but I didn't hear it. Well I love that because really a lot of people would stop and some of the greatest things that we have might not have ever happened if we had listened to two people who really didn't understand our vision or or take into account our the whole picture and our knowledge of. Of what we could do especially when we're determined. So what made you. Let's back up a little bit and let's talk about how you got involved in the restaurant industry what your passion was is this something you always wanted to do is have your own restaurant this. You know I don't know that I had realized that I always wanted to have my own restaurant but I always loved to eat in restaurants. Which is a very different thing than owning a restaurant. But. But since I was very very young you know four or five I used to love to go to restaurants I had specific restaurants I wanted to go to my grandfather was nice enough to indulge me and take me to places I wanted to go and order the things I had my mind set on ordering. And I think that always stayed with me I remember I was probably in college or maybe high school and my mother said you know it doesn't matter what's wrong with Yasmin. Give her a good meal. Take her out. Take her to a nice restaurant and all will be well. And it's it's true. So I just it was somehow inherent in me this this love for for not just food because we had great food at home as well which was terrific but for wanting to be out somewhere out in a restaurant in an environment that was not only preparing the food in the right way but serving it in a way that was deserving of the food the service the atmosphere everything that went into it. And I think that was always really important to me. The entire experience. The entire experience. And it sounds like it was also reminiscent when you say your grandfather indulged you of this extraordinary experience of connecting with that person instead of being distracted by all the things that you might have at home and including the presentation. But it's wonderful that you had that kind of culinary knowledge. You know it is. And desire. It is. And actually you know when you repeated that back to me about my grandfather it kind of it made me realize I don't come from a culture that is very much about going out to eat or restaurants. I'm Iranian. I was born in Iran. And you know when I talk about my grandfather taking me out that was when I was still in Iran. My parents moved here when I was about six years old. So and there were beautiful wonderful places. To go. But in general Iranian culture is more about eating at home. There's always this idea that the food that you can get in a restaurant is never going to be as good as what you will have at home. And to some extent that's still true. I think that's changed a lot. But to some extent that's still true. And it's you know part of it I think has to do with the amount of labor that's involved in making Iranian cuisine. So there's there's. There's some sort of a dichotomy between what culturally I grew up with and what naturally I was kind of wanting to go on. Yeah. And that may have been I mean certainly at five this was not an intellectual decision. But perhaps later. The seeds are planted. That's right. That's right. May have been about you know wanting to marry those things. You know why can't we get great food in a restaurant if we don't want to cook. Not everybody has the time to make great. Meals. But the skill. That's right. Perhaps. But why shouldn't we be able to have something that is like home cooked food that has the high quality of ingredients that has you know the love and the time and the care that's gone to it. And that's presented with the love and care that food is presented to us at home. So. So wanting wanting to have a restaurant that recreated that experience for you is one thing. But learning how to operate a restaurant bringing in the talent whether it's yourself or someone else to to cook that kind of cuisine that you desire to have. That's another thing. So how did you prepare yourself to open a restaurant. You know it was somewhat accidental to begin with. I didn't have my sights set on opening a restaurant but I started working for a company that. Did. Did financing for restaurants. They did some some marketing and then some short term loans to help restaurant operators either get through a difficult time or help them open. And I started to really love what I do. But what I loved about it was being in touch with my clients watching what they did how they did it whether it was successes or sometimes unfortunately failures. I learned a lot from it and it was their business. And their atmosphere. That was not only exciting to me but felt I felt very much at home there. And it wasn't just being in the restaurant because that part of it I loved it was you know appropriate to show the entrepreneurship that is involved in that. It's one thing to be part of the day to day operations of a restaurant. It's another thing to make sure that those day to day operations are part of a success. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. You're talking about an 18 year old. fun. It's like throwing a party. You know, and what I was saying earlier about creating that experience of being at home, we have to remember you're not at home. And it's not your friends or your family who are coming over to eat and people are coming and they're paying money and they have an expectation. You have to make sure you meet that expectation and exceed that expectation every single time. And it can be daunting. Yes, yes. So that was, I learned a lot by watching what others did, whether what they did worked or didn't. I learned a lot by watching them. And then as I started to think about opening my own place, I remember talking to the CPA of a friend of mine who was a very successful restaurateur and saying, you know, I'd like you to help me with the financials and the setup. And he said, well, before I do that, you need to go work in a restaurant. I said, but I'm, you know, in restaurants all day. He said, no, you can't. You need to work in a restaurant. Take a couple of years, do whatever, you know, do whatever you need to do. Hopefully, you know, manage at some level and then you'll be ready. And he was, and he was very right. You know, I sort of had this idea, which I think a lot of people do that just by watching or being around it, you know what to do and you don't. As with anything, you don't know, you know, you can watch somebody paint and it might look easy, but I can't paint when I go to put brush to canvas. It's a different story. So that's what I started to do. I started to do work every position I could, sometimes for nothing at my friend's restaurant and at other places if I could. And it was, it was humbling because I had been making a lot more money and doing, you know, things that seemed far more important. Um, but it was really, it was great. It's what allowed me to be able to open my restaurant. I understand every position, um, at least in the front of the house. I've never worked in a kitchen, so I won't pretend to know everything that goes on there. Um, which fortunately for me, I'm now married to an amazing chef. Yes, you are. That aspect of it. Well, I think that is valuable, valuable advice and, and is so helpful for people to know whether they're thinking about opening a restaurant or doing anything else to go out. Like you said, I really love the idea. That not only did you get to learn from other people's mistakes and to have a grasp and a, a good handle on the financial piece of it is, is worth its weight in gold, uh, pun intended. Um, but, but, uh, to then go and actually experience the day-to-day operations and see what that feels like and learn where, where you can improve your efficiency or where, how the customer reacts, uh, to certain situations. So how you can make that experience better and really be in, in the soup, so to speak, uh, that, that has to have had a great deal to do with the success that you've experienced with church and state. Uh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, when I think about, you know, the thought of, if I hadn't listened to, uh, Eric is his name, this, this wonderful man who said, you know, you need to go do this before I help you. And I had just embarked upon this. It would have been, it would have been a lot of work. And I think that's, I think that's, I think that's very different. It would have been very different. There was, there was, it was very humbling to, uh, to do what I did, not because of what, you know, the job that I was doing, but because I realized there was so much I didn't know, uh, about the day-to-day, um, interacting with guests was the easy part for me. It was, it was lovely and, you know, um, fun. Yeah. Interacting with other staff members sometimes, not the same thing. Um, and, and just all the details, you know, what time does it make sense for the host to come in? Why, you know, and I used to, I remember I used to say to this friend, why, why are you so on top of them about being 15 minutes early or late? It's 15 minutes. Now I realize 15 minutes is huge. Five minutes is huge. When you're talking about running a business, you know, every, you have to, especially in a restaurant, it's the margins, the profit margins are so, so, so slim, literally every penny counts. So if, if you're not thinking about why someone is coming in five minutes early or leaving five minutes late or why, you know, a napkin was thrown in the laundry bin when it wasn't actually used or dirty, it's, it becomes very difficult to run a profitable business. Right. You have to keep your eye on every single detail. I think the other thing too, that entrepreneurs don't always understand, and, and it was very beneficial for you to work all of the different positions because in any business, sometimes you have to wear all the hats. And you may be doing jobs that aren't necessarily something that you wanted to do, but especially in the early days, sometimes that you would have to do because someone didn't show up or someone got sick and you need to know how to do all of those different things. And pointing out that you had a mentor that can't be stressed enough, that it's really helpful to get advice and listen to others. And it doesn't mean that you're not going to be able to do all of those different things. It's really important to have that trust that you have to take their advice or in all cases that their advice is right, but you have to take it, really look at it with great deal of introspection and think about how this can benefit you. And so I love that you were able to find someone that you trusted that could advise you in such a way and, and gave you such valuable information that, like I said, contributed to what you're doing now. Absolutely. I think that's very important. That's the, I would say that was the most important thing. That was the biggest contributing factor in the, in the beginning to my being able to do what I did. Without that guidance, I absolutely wouldn't have done the things I did in, in the way, in the order that I did. And it was, it was very, very helpful. So I'm going to imagine the fact that you kind of had in your mind that this is something you wanted to do. You had the experience of working in the financial industry with, with restauranteurs. I assume you made a business plan. Yes, I did. I did. I mean, some people do start a business on the back of a napkin, but given what you just told me, I'm guessing that you were very thorough about everything. Yeah, exactly. Coming from the background I came from and the, the mentorship of the, the restaurant chef who was helping me and, and the CPA who was helping me, there was no way this was going to happen on the back of a napkin. But yes. So, you know, after working for a while. couple of years in the restaurant, Eric, the CPA did say, okay, well, let's put together some financials for you. So we put together a business plan, we put together, you know, our description of what the restaurant would be. And then never having done this, I embarked upon trying to find investors and somehow managed and it all came through. And was that a whole new, obviously, a new learning experience? And what did you learn from that? Yes and no. I had seen some little parts of it done before by other chefs and restaurateurs I knew. So I had learned a lot there. And from the previous business that I was involved in, looking at restaurant financials, I could see the places where, you know, the most troubles, I guess, came about. And I was comfortable with, you know, looking at the numbers and being able to talk about them. Our first and biggest investor was my mother. Brendan, family, always first. Absolutely. So that was terrific because she put in a substantial enough sum where it gave me the confidence to say, okay, you know, we have this backing, I can go forward and look for other people and talk about this. And not sound desperate, or start to have your confidence waver and not be sure of your project. Exactly. Exactly. Not that that didn't happen sometimes in three years time, but overall, it didn't ultimately. And that helped. So some of it was new. In my major in college was English with a concentration in theater. So I had done a lot of acting. So I knew how to speak to people. Which helped a lot. Very helpful. Yes. It was very good for doing a presentation. And regardless of the substance of your project, I think if you're able to present it in a way that's comprehensible to people, and hopefully somewhat attractive to people, it makes a big difference. So I think that that really helped me as well. Well, that was something I was going to ask about, because a lot of times you hear it's not so much what the project is, but you, you are the person that that sells the project. And so I think that's a really good way to do that. And I think that's a really good way to do that. And I think that's a really good way to do that. And I think that's a really good way to do that. And I think that's a really good way to do that. And I people who are investing in your company want to feel comfortable that that you are dedicated, that you will be persistent, that you're able to overcome the obstacles that you understand what what you're trying to accomplish. Not that you can know everything because you can never know everything. But by the fact that you're going to do whatever it takes, and you're fully invested yourself. So and then just to be able to speak about it. uh, knowledgeably and comfortably and confidently, I think is, is our real contributing factors. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think, I think it's important to have your vision, but I think it's also very important to be able to articulate your vision to others, um, if you need their help. And ultimately, no matter what you do, I think, you know, it's always a collaborative effort. We always need the help of others in some way. Yes. Um, even if you're an artist working solitarily in a studio, your inspiration comes from the outside and eventually you may want to sell your art. This is true. Uh, so what, how did you come about creating this vision of what you wanted? Because like you said, you came from Iran, you, you grew up, well, even though you moved here when you were six, you still, I'm sure grew up with that kind of, uh, culinary, uh, food. Well, you know, I grew up, uh, primarily with, with Iranian food when I was very young, but, um, we, we did, my parents moved here, but we traveled a lot before that. And after that, we traveled a lot and mostly to Europe. Um, so I had taken many, many trips to France and always loved it. And it was, um, something that I didn't see in Los Angeles, what we did at church and state when we did it. Um, there were some casual French places. There were some bistros, but they weren't great or as great as what I had experienced in France or even in New York. Um, and there were some very fine dining type of French restaurants, but that casual every day, but at a high level, I didn't see maybe it was here. I didn't know it. Um, so I, I felt that there was room for that and it was something that I wanted, that I, I could relate to. So it was going to be, um, easy for me to create it and back it and be passionate about it. Um, so that, that was the idea behind it is I just, I didn't see it and I wanted to have it. I mean, this food, we didn't invent it in a church and state. It's been around for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. All our recipes are classic, classic recipes. Um, while I think our presentation, um, is beautiful. Very refined more than most bistros. Um, but it's not, uh, it's, it's not, you know, we haven't reinvented the wheel. So I just wanted to see that very beautiful traditional food that people enjoyed all over the world for so many hundreds of years here. Um, I started looking downtown because as I said, I grew up in LA, so I knew downtown. I remember, um, you know, coming here as a kid and as a teenager, my mom and I would go to the California mart. It was the first or last Friday of the month or something. Yeah. Seriously. For our listeners, there's a sale the last Friday of the month. Um, and you know, we, we stuck around downtown until five, then you, then you fled. Yes. Cause there was no place to eat down there. That's right. So, um, it was very exciting to me when the city of Los Angeles started to, uh, encourage and back a resurgence of, of downtown and building downtown. So it was immediately where I started to look and the history of the city of Los Angeles, the buildings downtown, the history of downtown was much more synonymous with what I was trying to do and going into a brand new building, you know, on the West side or somewhere else. So, um, once we came across our current space, it just felt exactly right. Um, where for, for those people who don't know, we're in the, uh, the biscuit lofts, which was the Nabisco building, national biscuit company. It was the Nabisco's original, factory and offices built in 1925, which for LA is very old. Yes. And the space that the restaurant occupies was the loading dock for the building. So it's, you know, it's a little grungy. The floor is the original brick floor of the loading dock. There are these gigantic steel columns that support the building that run through our restaurant. And it felt, the space felt very right for the cuisine that we were doing. And it just, it all came together. And I, going back to your question, I just hadn't seen anything like that yet in Los Angeles. But it was, I wasn't recreating anything. It wasn't anything new. It was just new to LA. Well, it was standing out in a different kind of way. The building that you're in is absolutely beautiful. And your restaurant is just gorgeous. And the food matches that. And in taste and presentation, you felt quite a reputation with that. So, so now you have this incredible vision. You found, you found backers. Tell me how you and Tony met. Were you already in the picture at this point? Did you already know that? No. So we opened in September of 2008, as I said. I fired our first chef two months after a restaurant opening. Which could have been a logistic nightmare. Fortunately, it wasn't. We, I had two wonderful sous chefs and we managed to run the restaurant for a couple of years with them. Excuse me, a couple of months, not a couple of years, a couple of months. Then we had a great chef come in for about a year and another. And Tony and I met about three years ago. And it was, I was, had started working on or thinking about working on a restaurant. And Tony and I met about three years ago. And it was an opportunity to set an example. And it was an opportunity to set an example. And it was an opportunity project and Tony was looking to do his own thing. So we started to talk and we realized our visions were very, very aligned. And as we talked about the new project, there was a great opportunity for Tony to join us at Church and State. And our chef who'd been with us for about two years had worked for Gordon Ramsay and was looking to go back to open a restaurant for him, which I supported. So I asked Tony to come to Church and State and he looked at me in utter shock. Tony's background is from very, very, very high-end fine dining, Michelin-starred restaurants in France. He has earned three and two Michelin stars as chef himself. And so he was not thinking about a little bistro. In the middle of nowhere in downtown LA cooking bistro food. Fortunately for me, he did reconsider and had, you know... Love is an amazing thing. That's right. That's right. Well, he said, well, I'll help you. And he's still helping me, fortunately, and we're helping each other. So I think it became fun for him then to see how he could reconsider and be a better chef. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think that's what we're doing. Create these classic dishes and to, as he has said, go back to the roots of his cuisine, you know, what he grew up with in France. That's fantastic. So finding the right people, working together. This is also something that sometimes entrepreneurs do. I know for my husband and I, we do as well, although not in a real day-to-day anymore. But what advice can you give people? Who are working with not only, you know, their husband or wife or brother or sister or family members, maybe even best friends, but what kind of advice do you, would you give? You know, I think working with anybody and this comes from Tony, actually, the precise wording. He said it in an interview the other day. Somebody asked, how do we work together? What makes this work between? And he said, the same vision. And that's exactly right. I think working with anybody, no matter who they are, the first thing and the most important thing is that you have the same vision or a very, very, very similar vision. Because every time it's different, unless you can come to an agreement and to an understanding and realize that that difference is going to strengthen your business, it's going to cause difficulty. Right. If exactly that doesn't happen. And in fact, I opened the restaurant with a partner and we parted ways very quickly because it became apparent our vision was not aligned at all. So I would say regardless of who you work with, make sure that you are really, really wanting the same thing and wanting to go about creating it in a very similar way. I'm very lucky that I have a partner. And a husband who I can work with so easily. I don't think it's always so easy, especially if it's someone you're close with, whether it's, you know, family or spouse or friend. Because there's this, we interact in a certain way personally. We interact in a certain way professionally. For us, it's very important to, while we're the same people all the time, we don't change as people. We have the same goals and the same, you know, focus and the same vision. Yeah. It's very important to distinguish between, okay, are we in work mode or are we on a date or are we at home or what's happening? And to make sure that, you know, those boundaries don't get crossed. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's very good advice because otherwise you can find that you're just always in that work mode. And when do you actually turn it off? And you can get burned out with each other, with everything when that happens. Absolutely. So, and just being able to, I love that you distinguish it. Are we on a date? Are we in work mode? Or are we something else? Absolutely. So, that's great. Great advice. Yeah. And vacation. Yes. We're both big proponents of vacation. I think it's really important to rest. You know, you said you get burnt out. You do. It's important to rest on a daily basis. And then it's important to take a break from your business. Because you come back with renewed, not only vigor, but a lot of times with new visions of what you'd like to do and create. So, I think that's important too. I was going to say, especially in your business, going away on vacation and experiencing other restaurants, which obviously you do when you're on vacation most of the time. Then that must be really kind of exciting. Always comparing. I mean, I do that with business too. I'm always looking at other businesses and seeing, wow, how are they doing this? This is so great. Or they could change this and this would be more beneficial. So, I agree with you. Vacation and self-care is extremely important. And it just really helps you to keep from getting burnt out. And like you said, also come up with new ideas and fresh ideas. And also just kind of the chance to stay in love with your business too. Absolutely. I think we're so focused. Yeah. We're so focused on work in the U.S. And it's a great thing. We're a capitalistic country. We're an entrepreneurial country. And so many people have had the opportunity to do what they want to because of that. But we have to remember that you can't work unless you've rested. So, as you said, self-care and rest. And take a vacation. And take a vacation. Absolutely. As often as you can. Where's your favorite place to go? Gosh, that's a great question. Gosh, there's so many. At the moment, I think it's Turkey, if I can speak for both of us. We've gone there for a couple of years. We got married there. And it's beautiful. The people are so warm. The food is so simple and so good that it's very, it's truly restful to be there and fun. So I definitely want to talk about in our interview what plans you have for the future. But I also want to let our guests know if they're listening and they would like to call in and ask a question of myself or Yasmin. The number is 1-800-893-9562. We'd love to hear from you. So you've got one restaurant under your belt and it's going very well. It's a fabulous, fabulous place. And what are your plans for the future? And would they include? Yes. So, you mentioned Turkey and how much you love their food. Is there something in the future with Turkish food? I don't know about Turkish food yet because it's not something that either of us have quite a grasp on yet. I mean, we like it. We like eating it. We're starting to understand it. But you know, Toni has not been trained in Turkish cuisine yet. And it's not, you know, I don't have a background in it, so we're learning it. But we are working on another French restaurant. It's also downtown in the Douglas building. And it will be called Spring. And so Church & State is traditional Bistro faire , which is more from the north of France. It's richer food. And Spring will be the opposite. It will be southern Mediterranean French cuisine. So it will be much lighter. A lot more fish versus other proteins. a lot of vegetable. Tony is incredibly skilled, which I find to be very unusual for a French chef, incredibly skilled at working with vegetables, at creating the most beautiful, tasteful dishes I've ever had the pleasure of having. So it's really a great opportunity for him to, you know, delve back into his passion of doing more of that at Spring. What fun. That sounds very exciting. Tell me how you came up with the name Church and State. Tell me how you came up with the name Spring, because names can be so important. Names can. So the French were actually the first to separate Church and State. Oh, cool. So that's the reference. You know, I didn't want sort of a typical French name. And Church and State is, I think, the marriage of, you know, the French portion and the American portion. And it's certainly something that people will remember. So Spring, it's on Spring. The restaurant is on Spring Street. It's on Spring and 3rd. But more than that, Spring is the time when produce is at its peak. And the most delicious, beautiful things are coming into season to use in dishes for cooking. So that was also, to me, was a very good name for a restaurant. Now, how do you, divide your time, like going between the two restaurants? Obviously, a lot is focused on opening up the new place, but you still have the old place. So it's like when a new baby comes along, you have to make sure you still let that one know it's loved. But you have to take care of this, this new one as well. And it has a lot of needs and demands. So how are you balancing? Well, to some extent, I think like with the new baby, you may learn things as you go along. But, but, you know, we've, we've been working on this project for a little while. So we've had the opportunity to plan it well, which has been really fantastic. We've been training some of our staff for the new place at Church and State. So it gives them the opportunity to work with me, to work with Tony, to understand how we work before we move into a restaurant opening, which is a very, very arduous task. Yes, that's, that's really smart. It's well, we've been, we've been fortunate enough to be able to do that. So, so, so that's part of it. We are dividing our time now between construction and overseeing construction. And for Tony, a lot of menu development, and then all the little details that go into like, you know, picking out your, your silverware and your china and your, you know, everything else, which is incredibly time consuming. So we're learning to divide our time in that way. But I think the most important thing for or one of the most important things for a restaurant, if you're going to have multiple locations, and I don't know this in practice yet, because this is the first time I'm doing it, but it's to have good key people in place. So we will at Church and State because we've been working with them. And then we're training a couple of our key people to go with us to spring. You know, you can only do so much. There are only so many hours in a day, and we still need to sleep and all that. And so, you know, we're learning to divide our time in that way. So it's important to have people who are, who are aligned with your vision, who are working for you and with you who are going to, you know, do what needs to be done when you can't when you're not there, or even when you are. What's been the biggest surprise when you when you opened up your restaurant from now, from when you opened it up till now? What's been the biggest surprise that you've encountered? Wow, that's, you know, you have finally stumped me with a question. I don't know. I don't know. I think I, I, I try to stay. And I don't even know if I try. I think it's just my nature. I'm so focused on what I'm doing. That I think I'm just I'm just in it. It's like, you know, it's like being underwater, but not in a bad way. You're underwater. You're just that's all that's all you're doing. Okay, this is a problem. I'll deal with it. Now I'm moving on. I think so. So I think I don't often think of things as surprise. I just think, okay, well, there it is. Good or bad. Let's, you know, like you said, let's deal with this and move on. So I don't have an answer. That's okay. That was an answer. And that's a good one. Sometimes I don't know that I could answer that for myself either. So but it just made me think about when you start out like, wow, I didn't know it was going to be like this. You know, I'm sure there were so many of those things. But it's like the question of, you know, what's going on? And I think that's a good one. I think that's a good one. You know, you asked me originally, and I said, I couldn't think about you said, did people think you're crazy opening down here? In the same way that I couldn't think about that, I think I couldn't think about, oh, I didn't know it was going to be like this. It just had to be, okay, this is how it is. What do we do with this? And we continue. You know, going back to what you said, you didn't think about that. Not everyone is able to as easily cast aside other people's opinions. What do you think helped you to stay focused and believing in yourself? This was the right thing to do. You know, I think partially it's my nature. I'm an Aries. Okay, that has something to do with it. I'm very single minded. I'm very determined. And I learned very early on when I was, very, very young, I learned that if I focus on something, to the exclusion of all other distractions, I will achieve my goal. That is maybe the best single piece of advice we've heard here today, other than going and working and doing all the jobs. Because I think in a society of multitasking everything, and I am so guilty of that myself, we lose sight of what our goals are. Because we're just trying to accomplish way too much. It's true. And you know, multitasking is something I absolutely cannot do. I can't and I won't. I very, very much dislike distractions. And they're there. But I know for myself that if I am going to succeed at what I'm doing, whether it's writing an email or opening a restaurant, I have to stay very focused on the task at hand. Okay. Tony gets irritated with me because sometimes I don't read his emails for a day or two and my emails pile up. But it's because I can't walk and look at my email like so many people do. I can't sit at lunch with somebody and check my phone. I just can't. I need to stay 100% in what I'm doing at the moment, then move on to something else and stay 100% in that. So I guess that's what helped me do that. And I won't say that it's, you know, while it is my nature, I won't say it's always easy. It's certainly a discipline. And it's something I decided to do, and I learned to do. And every day I decide to do. Well, you also recognized and this is what's important for any entrepreneur is to recognize how you work best, how you're going to accomplish things that need to get accomplished. And knowing what your your skill set is knowing knowing what you're kind of bringing to the table. And knowing this about yourself that this this works better for you and that you are able to focus on a single thing at one time and that multitasking is is not something you do. And, and now it turns out that's really good. That that knowing yourself and knowing what your skills and strengths are, are are invaluable to to building a business. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's invaluable to anything. But certainly, it's, I have no trouble at all asking for help. My staff is fantastic, incredible. And it took me a little while to learn this, I will admit, but I have learned once I give them a task, I give them the task. You let go. And that's it. Yes. And you trust them. And sometimes they do it the way you want it. And sometimes they don't. And sometimes it's much better if they do it a different way, which is fantastic. But yes, I found that to be very, very important. Now, did you come in already with that skill set of managing people? Or how did you go about, I mean, working at a company, and even working for somebody else is one thing, but then coming in and, and now you are having to tell people what to do and, and you're wonderful, really nice person and, and yet they're going to be people who exceed your expectations, but other people who are constantly disappointed. And don't have the work ethic and that you do don't get it. And just even having to, to, to manage that, how, how did you go about learning all of that? You know, I definitely didn't come in with that skill set. I had never done that. And it, again, I'll go back to being an Aries. I'm somewhat of a natural leader. But it was not something I had done professionally. And that was definitely a learning curve for me. I was, I had very good people. I'm very fortunate for that. And we always had wonderful people. But you know, every once in a while, yeah, there's someone who doesn't have the work ethic you need or want. And it was, it took me a little while to learn how to discipline and do it quickly and how to part ways with the people that really weren't aligned with the way we did things at Church and State. And that, yes, we, I learned that as I went along, which probably is not the best way to do it, but it was the only way. But, and what other way is there though? Really? Right. Whether you learn it at another company or you learn it for yourself, at some point you have to, the buck stops with you. And even if you've learned how to delegate and manage other people in another organization, there's always the boss. And, and in this situation, you're in. Yeah. Yeah. So, did you read books? Did you just. I did. Trust your intuition a little of both? I read some books. Yes. I didn't have a lot of time to read once I opened the restaurant. And that's when I realized I really needed it. So some of it was really learning as I went along. A lot of it was asking for advice from other restaurateurs I knew. And a lot of it was my intuition. As you said, that was really, you know, I inherently believe in the good in people. And I inherently believe that if you give people your trust and let them know that, that it will be repaid in kind. Now, sometimes it's not done in exactly the way you expect. But as a result of that, I think I never had any terrible experience. And I think that's what I learned from Tony. And I think that's what I learned from Tony. As we were going along and as I was learning this. But I did learn and I've learned a lot of that from Tony actually recently is that if something's not working, you need to put an end to it now. Not keep trying to rework it or, you know, give more advice or more suggestions. But, you know, if someone's not doing what you need them to in the way you need them to and you've told them once and twice, then that's not going to work. And that's it. You move on. Do you think that's because of the male and female going on? Because, you know, they say that they're and I know it's true for my husband and I, but he's the only other male that I really watch very diligently how he does businesses or does business. But do you think that's because women tend to nurture a little more and we tend to think that we can fix everything? So do you think it's a difference between male and female in the way you manage or the way you operate? Or do you think it's just a matter of. Tony understanding this in a different in a different viewpoint? Well, you know, Tony has much, much, much more experience than I do working in the restaurant business. You know, his his career from the time he came out of school was that was restaurants and he's worked in incredible places for his whole life. Church and. Church and State was my first restaurant. So I think part of it has to do with, you know, you asked me originally, had I done this before professionally? No, Tony has a lot. And in the kitchen, there's no room for error. In a dining room, there is more room for error. So, you know, part of it, I think, has to do with that. I think part of it does have to do with the male and the female as well, being more nurturing and wanting to sort of. You know, teach people and bring them along. And and I'd still like to do that. But I have learned that not everything is teachable and fixable or fixable and not everybody wants to learn what you have to teach them. That's OK. Right. So and my instincts with regard to. Who to hire. And how they will work within our structure have definitely sharpened. It's just, you know, when you do something over and over and over again, yes, yes, it becomes more exactly. Now, did you really start out totally knowing what you wanted your brand to be or has that evolved? No, that's something I was very clear on. We were speaking to some people the other day and one of them said, oh, so your food is French fries. California and Tony, I both said no, absolutely not. It's French. And that was very, very clear to me. I think people do things that are fusion and mixed and they work very well sometimes. But for me, that is not. And for Tony as well, it's not at all what we are setting out to do, either with Church and State or Spring or really anything else. I think we're both we can be much more. Black and white than gray. So with regard to Church and State, it was a French bistro. The setting, the physical setting, I think, reflects that it does. It's simple. There are no tablecloths, you know, it's small tables and bistro chairs. It's a little bit loud. As everybody knows who's been there, the food is 100 percent French and it's bistro French food. You know, as I said, that the presentation is perhaps more elegant. I think you might see in many bistros, but but it's traditional French recipes. There's no fusion. So so the brand to me was very clear from the start. That sounds great. I love it when when people know what they want and when you start out right away, you're teaching people how to respect your restaurant and and identify with it. So I love that you were very clear about that. What is your moment that you're the most proud of? Gosh, I think our first year anniversary, I was pretty proud. I couldn't believe that we had gotten there and taken so long to open. Raising money toward the end had become so difficult because the economy had hit the skids. Right. We fired our chef after two months. We were literally in the middle of nowhere. You know, now everybody or not, maybe not everybody. Most people know the arts district and it's, you know, very desirable place to be. We were just, you know, back then nobody knew what the arts district was. We were at the edge of the L.A. River. Right. Nobody wanted to go there. Why would you go there? People people would call us when they were about a block away from the restaurant. They were absolutely lost. We're utterly lost. We'll never make it. I'm so sorry. You'll have to cancel a reservation. Say, well, you know, where are you? And they would tell us. Tell it, give us a street name or just go. So you're a block away. No, no, no, no, no. We can't be. You have no idea what it's like here. Trust me, you're a block away. So going through that and the challenges of a first year and, you know, buying out a partner and everything else, I think that it was it was sort of very monumental for me to have made it to that first year. Is there a favorite restaurant for you? Oh, gosh. That's always the hardest question for me. We like Little Tokyo a lot. There's some very good Japanese food here. There's a restaurant called Kagaya that we both love. It's very refined shabu shabu in Little Tokyo. I think that's probably our favorite at the moment. It's hard. That's a hard question to ask. I think there are there's things and I would imagine, although I haven't asked, I would imagine a lot of chefs and restaurateurs might say the same thing. There are elements that you find that you really love at certain places. But, you know, when it's when it's your business and you're in it every day and you're looking at what can I do differently, what can I improve? It's hard to stop that when you're in another place and sort of when that takes over, you you know. I bet. To just be able to go out and just enjoy it. Yeah. And just for what it is and not start thinking about how they really did this great or they they can improve in this particular area. That's right. And and how much time is there? Do you make it a point to go and visit new restaurants on a regular basis? We do. We love we love to go out. As I said, you know, I think I opened a restaurant because I love to go to restaurants and I still do so. So we really do. I think it's important to see what other people are doing and how they're doing it. You know, we also. We get great enjoyment from from being out from talking to, you know, restaurant staff. And so we do whether it's new or it's been around for a while. I think we both make a big effort to well, I shouldn't say make it's not always an effort. It's enjoyable, but we make sure we take time to go out. Now, I know this question is asked a lot by by I would imagine this question is asked frequently by anyone who might be interviewing you. But. Yeah. I mean, you often hear I mean, because you're you you are in the kitchen preparing menus or cooking or or whatever. Do you cook at home, too? Or do you just say, no, I've done that there and I get home. I want to relax, do some takeout. Tony, are you going to chime in? I'm looking at. Yes, I cook at home, of course. OK. A lot of times I cook at home. I'm not a great cook and I keep it very, very simple. And I cook mostly vegetarian if I cook at home. When Tony cooks, it's definitely a different experience than when I cook at home, even though he keeps it simple compared to what he does. I think by nature he can't you know, he can't just put a potato on the oven and have it be a baked potato. It has to be peeled and blanched and fried once and then fried twice and then seasoned and then done this and do that to it. And of course, it's this incredible potato when it comes out. But but we do we do like to eat at home, too. It's nice. It's nice to be at home sometimes when we're surrounded by other people so much of the time that I think that break is necessary sometimes. What do you love most about what it is that you're doing? Gosh, I think people that's that's what I love most. Both the people who work with us. And for us and our guests. That to me is the most enjoyable part. And the food we eat at our restaurant all the time. I know a lot of chefs and restaurateurs don't, but I take great pleasure at eating in our restaurant. I can understand why. Thank you. And so, you know, sometimes it is work and we also do critique what we're eating. We don't just sit down and, you know, have a drink and eat and relax. But. But. But. But it's very enjoyable to me. And the whole atmosphere of a restaurant is very, very enjoyable to me. You know, obviously ours is curated to our liking. So it's it's fun to be there. Yeah, that's great. You know, I keep thinking about what you said earlier in the in the program about just the fact that people I grew up in the restaurant business, too, as you know. And I think, as you know, seems like we had that conversation. I think so. But it was, of course, I was viewing it perhaps from a child's viewpoint. And it was kind of like my dad was opening up, you know, to to have a party. And even though they were paying guests, they felt like friends. We we knew the people who came in regularly and and and so it felt very much like that. But but, of course, I didn't understand all of the nuances that were involved. But I I think it's it's. Really important what you said to it is kind of like that. But at the same time, they're paying guests and they have a certain level of expectation. It's not just going over to Yasmin and Tony's house for dinner and appreciating the fact that you got invited. It's it's going in and being very excited to go to your to your restaurant, but also having this certain expectation. And I think that that is really. Important advice when we think about sometimes quite frequently in business, we do become friendly with the people that we do business with. So whether you own a restaurant or not, then you have to kind of think about that. But it looks like our show is wrapped up and I've just enjoyed talking to you all so much. So I just want to thank you so much for being a part of the show and coming in and talking to me and telling me about your life as an entrepreneur. Thank you, Jan. It was our absolute pleasure. And you are. A wonderful interviewer. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. I got the eye of the tiger. The fighter. Dancing through the fire. Cause I am the champion. And you're gonna hear me roar. You're amazing. Oh, wow.