Interview with Cara Dykert on dinner parties and entrepreneurship

hello and welcome to the life of an entrepreneur i'm jan mccarthy with entrepreneurial voice and we are broadcasting live in downtown los angeles at skid row studios.com we're on the internet and we are here every tuesday at 11 a.m pacific standard time and we're here to talk about entrepreneurship and share business tips and just what the life of an entrepreneur is like and if you have any questions you can give us a call the number is 1-800-893-9562 and today i'm very excited because i'm interviewing kara dykert and she is with willow and niche and this is a dinner part she's a dinner partner and she's going to be talking about entrepreneurship and she's going to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to have you here. And did I say, is it Cara or Cara? I am officially Cara, but I get Cara all the time. So I respond to both. All right. Well, we're going with Cara then. Great. So you and I met at your dinner party, a dinner party that you hosted. And I thoroughly enjoyed the evening, had so much fun. And my daughter came and had a dinner party at your place as well. Um, tell me how this all got started. Yeah. Well, I will tell you, I'm the middle of five children. And so every night at dinner, we grew up eating around the table together. And that was just a place for our family to connect, to actually have conversation, to recap on the day. And so that was normal for me growing up. And it kind of became a theme in my life. As I moved into college, I loved having people over for dinner. During grad school, I would throw little dinner parties all the time. Um, my mom is very intuitive in the kitchen. And so I kind of learned that skill from her of just being able to walk in, see what's in front of me and make something out of it. Um, and so long story short, I was in Chicago for on and off for 10 years. And I had a wedding planning company for about three and a half of those years. Um, and I ended my wedding planning company and I had no idea what I wanted to do. So I started looking into advertising and production and stuff that I had been doing. And, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah drive me across the country. She lives in Madison. And so we got in this two-door red Mazda 1987 convertible that my brother had gifted me because I didn't have a car in Chicago. So he gave me this old convertible. We packed it up with a couple boxes and drove across the country. And during that time, Michelle, my best friend, asked me, she said, if you could do anything for the rest of your life and money doesn't matter, what are you going to do? I said, I'd have people over for dinner. And she said, great, you're going to LA, turn that into a company. So I got to LA. Great advice. I love that. It is good. It really challenges you to think about what you value and what you love doing, as opposed to what you think you should be doing. And yeah, it was incredible advice. It was kind of a launchpad for me. So I got to LA and I just started telling people, I'm going to have a dinner party company. I'm going to throw dinner parties. And pretty quickly, people said, well, will you throw my birthday party or my anniversary? And I started doing little gigs here and there. And I ended up finding a loft in downtown LA that had just this long dining room area. It's amazing, by the way. Thank you. I feel spoiled every time I wake up. I'm like, how do I live here? But it's just beautiful. It's full of light. And two of my friends from downtown were moving out of downtown and had this ginormous dining room table that they gave to me for so cheap. And so they had hand built it. It's really cool. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to have a dinner party. And they crafty and beautiful. And so I got this table. And one of my friends who lived in the building was over one night drinking whiskey with me, which happens to be my favorite libation. So you would hold dinner parties and drink whiskey. Yes. And so we said we should have strangers over for dinner and hold dinner parties and drink whiskey. And so we came up with this concept of Whiskey Wednesdays, which is where I met you. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Awesome. Yeah. So you knew a lot of people. You started with your friends. Yeah, I started with my friends. So the first Whiskey Wednesday that I did, I would say was mostly friends or friends of friends. So I just reached out to people and said, I'm going to throw this dinner party. You should come. And it was kind of a test case where we could see what worked. And what I found in that first dinner was that I really want everyone to connect at a table. That's my goal with bringing people around at dinner is that I want food to be a vehicle for connection. So we started something called table questions where we sit down for dinner and we ask the table questions, something simple like, what's your favorite middle school memory? And someone will share about how they wore JNCOs and someone will share about how they got those cross braids in Jamaica on spring break. And there's all these fun stories that come out. And what ends up happening is you have a similar story to someone across the table from you. And then later in the meal, we do musical chairs where we get everyone to switch places. And then we ask a new question and there's just new bonding material and experiences from those questions. That's fabulous. Well, the dinner I went to was really wonderful and the food was delicious. So did you grow up cooking? Is there a certain philosophy around the cooking? Like everything needs to be organic or this is my specialty and this is what you get every time? That's a great question. I said this earlier, but for me, food really is a vehicle for community and a vehicle for connection. And I think that's a really good question. I think that's a really good for connection. So I honestly could eat anything. Sometimes I go to dinner with friends and they're like, oh my gosh, we're in the midst of a chef and we have to be, you know, cultured in our food. And I think, no, I could eat a Chick-fil-A sandwich and be really happy. But for me, something that I have been thinking about, especially since living in LA is the concept of real food. I'm not a super huge advocate of too many food documentaries. There's so many opinions and in a city like LA, everyone has opinions about what you should eat, what you shouldn't eat. And I feel relatively neutral about all of it. But something that I do feel passionate about is eating real food. So real meals, actually cooking produce, actually cooking, yeah, real grains, real things, as opposed to filling your body with processed, you know, cliff bars or sugar or whatever it might be, just kind of making sure you're taking in things that are real and authentic. So how do you, so how have you, the word has spread? Are you actively marketing? Oh, I'm not, I'm not marketing at all. So everything that I've done has been word of mouth with Whiskey Wednesdays. And then even with private dinner parties, it's generally someone will find me through a friend. Yeah. So no marketing at this point. Okay. And then how do you determine, now I've only been to one, but you have a different. Menu each time. How do you decide on that menu? Does that kind of, do you think that kind of helps to determine the people that come? Yeah, I think it does help to determine the guest list. For me, I love creating in any capacity. I love taking materials and making something out of it. And that really plays into the kitchen for me. So oftentimes I'll think about, you know, we're in fall and it's squash season. Let's play around with squash. And what can we do with that? And kind of build a menu off of that. Or one week I had a craving for tahini. And so I thought, let's do something Middle Eastern. Let's do a meal around Middle Eastern foods. And it really kind of depends on, yeah, what's in season, what's in front of me. Like sometimes I'll be gifted a box of, you know, produce and I'll think, let's use this. I don't want to waste it. What can we make with this? And then generate a menu around it. And then I'll think, well, what can we do around that? But my brain does work in ideation. So I'm constantly just dreaming up new menus all the time. I don't think I've ever repeated a dish or a menu just because it's fun for me to come up with something new. Wow. Yeah, that's really impressive. Yeah, it's fun. And a lot of people have their go to like, this is my go to dinner. And they because even creating a dinner, that's a lot of work coming up with the menu and then preparing things, something that you haven't prepared before. Yeah. Yeah. You just, so you obviously have, the food I tasted was delicious. So you obviously have this flair for just mixing ingredients. And that's quite a talent. How did you get that talent? Is it just something you've always had? Did you cook when you were growing up? Yeah. You know, it's so funny is that I, all my life, thought everyone had that skill. Like I honestly thought like, oh, everyone can do that. And it wasn't until probably my early 20s where I realized that that's a gift and something that I think my mom passed on to me, actually. She's just very creative in the kitchen and had to be. So just having five children and having to feed all of us with different tastes. She was very intuitive in coming up with different dishes that were cost effective, that were not wasteful. And so I think I adopted that skill from her. And then I think just practicing it makes, it easier, right? So the more you do something, the more natural it becomes. And for me, the kitchen is a playground. So the more I'm playing around with flavors and playing around with ingredients, the better that skill becomes. Well, I love, you've brought up several points that I think are really important for anyone who's an entrepreneur or someone who's thinking about becoming an entrepreneur. And that's first of all, listening to your intuition and going with something that you love. And I've said this on the show before, but one of my husbands, favorite quotes is if you do something you love, then you never work a day in your life. So it sounds a lot like that's what you're doing. And some people would get very stressed out. Like I love throwing dinner parties, but I don't necessarily love, I like cooking. I don't love cooking. So if I had to go in and cook, I would be a little bit stressed. You're very calm. So you looked at what your personality and your traits were and your strengths. And you said, yeah, this, this is like, I mean, I love your, your description going into the kitchen and preparing a meal. It's not like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I mean, I don't know, maybe you're freaking out, but, but you didn't seem to when I was there and we had 16 people. And, you know, you were able to handle that with just complete grace and ease and, and very calm. And so knowing that, you know, you look at this as your playground and, and it's just fun. It's just fun doing that. You know, how many times have you had to go to cooking? it and coming up with the recipes. And it also seems, you know, there's certain, like if you were a perfectionist and everything had to taste perfect, then that might be very difficult for you. Yeah. And maybe you do consider yourself a perfectionist, but that might be the experimental kitchen or something. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. I think you make a great point that when you feel like you're not working, but you get to turn that into a trade, that's like the true sign of entrepreneurship. And I had a friend ask me recently, when are you in your zone? And I love that question because I think there's a lot of times where people think, what do you love? And then they don't necessarily know how to make a career out of that. But I think that question of when are you in your zone? When are you thriving? When are you coming alive? Really points to kind of the direction that if you're going to be a perfectionist, you're going to be a perfectionist. You should pursue it in that area. And I think too, with food and with cooking and with hosting, there is something in my personality that allows me to not get stressed about it because I maybe have perfectionistic tendencies, but I think at the end of the day, I'm also very adaptable. So I can walk into a kitchen and if something turns out not exactly how I want it to. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Because for me, again, it's not about just the food. It's about what the food is creating for people. Right. Right. No, I love that. And I think it's a great philosophy and to just be able to to start something sort of organically and let it grow. Now, is this your full time job? Yes, kind of. So I do this. This is my bread and butter, my baby. I'm growing it. But I also actually manage an Instagram dog, which is- Which is great. A very strange thing to say out loud. But my best friend owns an Instagram dog with a large following. And so for the past year, I've been- We can say the name. His name is Tuna, like the dog or like the fish. Tuna melts my heart. It's his Instagram handle. He's got a huge following. Huge following. Yeah. And he's so funny and he brings people so much joy. So I get to do that as well, which is really fun. Now, how did you, did that just happen organically too, in terms of- I mean, he's got a huge following. I know, I think I told you at the dinner, I have friends who follow him and know him and everything. And so are you employing the same principles of how you got Tuna Melts My Heart going to your own business? You obviously are very good at all of this. Thank you. Thank you. So Courtney, who owns Tuna Melts My Heart, is a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She's a very good employee. She had a really large following when I met her. She had probably 400,000. And at that point, she was starting to get so many inquiries about people wanting to work with Tuna. So people would say, we want to do this project with you or have you come to this event or whatever it might be. And she, at that point, had a full-time job and I was doing Willow and Niche. And I told her, I would love to help you. I would love to help you grow this, into something. And so pretty organically, through our friendship, I jumped into this role of helping manage Tuna. And I think one of my skill sets is just being able to dream for people and with people and come up with new ideas and how could we grow this and how could we turn this into something. And so I would say that the same principles that I use towards my own company are the same principles, that I've used towards Tuna. And I think too, something that both Courtney and I consistently talk about is things being organic and things being true to who we are and what we believe in. So we always joke around, we don't want to be the sellout dog. We don't want to be the dog that sells out to every brand just because it's a monetary opportunity, which maybe goes against the rules of entrepreneurship. But I think to be satisfied in what you're actually doing and to be fulfilled. And that you've really got to work in things that align with your personal moral compass, your personal belief system about the world. And so all the business opportunities that we've had with Tuna and that I've had with Willow and Niche have come really organically. And I think that's part of why I haven't done any kind of advertising or marketing yet, because I really love this natural progression of business and really seeing it as something relational, really. I think I've been really seeing it as a way to, yeah, build relationships and long lasting relationships. And even if a business grows slower because of that, I think it's more lasting. Well, you and I operate on the same principle and I understand about the selling out. And I do think that there's a real fine balance between, you know, this can make me a lot of money, but is it still in alignment with who you are and what it is that you're seeing? Yeah. Yeah. And I think every entrepreneur has to take a look at that. But I think there's definitely a movement in entrepreneurship where people are being more authentic and they're really trying to think about their brand and what it represents and does it represent them fully? And so I love that you brought that up because, yes, I'm sure that there are tons of opportunities that you have to kind of sift through and think about in the end. And every entrepreneur should really think about this. Is this going to hurt my brand? Is this going to hurt my brand? Is this going to hurt my brand? Is this going to go against who I am and what I represent and what I stand for? Yeah. And it's okay to make money. It's definitely okay. And if it's something that's still in alignment with you, then that's totally cool. If you get $10 million, but it's still in keeping with who you are, it's not just commercialism kind of thing, then that makes sense. But if it's not, then that's understandable that sometimes you say no. Yeah. Yeah. And I think women... Women too. There are differences between men and women. And I think sometimes women tend to think more along these lines. But definitely I see a movement and I'm really excited about that. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. How did you come up with your name, Willow and Niche? That's a great question. So in 2009, I had a food blog, a really terrible food blog called Willow and Niche. And I named it that because I love willow trees. I love... I love what they represent. I love how beautiful they are. They're trees that are very deeply rooted by a source of water. But everything about them flows out and gives. It provides shade, it provides beauty, it provides just a sense of wonder. But they're deeply rooted trees. So that was kind of my symbolism with Willow. And then Niche is a place that you have found that you belong. The definition is essentially along those lines. And when I thought about it, I was like, my company, when I got to LA, I thought that really is my heartbeat towards food is being a place for people to connect. And so being a person in general, that's really deeply rooted and that everything about me is pouring out and giving and then doing that in a space that I belong, which is the kitchen. That's great. So when you started your blog, that was... When did you move to LA? Uh, February, no, May of 2013. So a year and a half ago. And you still do the blog? I do. I do a blog off of my website. So my website is willowandniche.com. But I think I had like willowandniche.blogspot.com or something. Well, everybody had one of those at one time if they were smart enough to think about start blogging back then. It's true. I googled it the other day and I found some recipe, but I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's true. But I had put up on there and it was actually a really good one, but it's so, it's just so terrible how I had no aesthetic for websites at that point. But you know, that's, and that's okay too though, because it's always a stepping stone and you don't know everything when you start out and a lot of people wait and they say, oh, well, I, it's not, I don't know all of the answers. I don't have all of this. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So I'm just not going to do anything. I love that you just jumped in and that you look back and you cringe. Maybe a little bit. That's okay. It prepared you for where you are now. And that's, that's a good place to come from is to just start, just start and it's okay. You'll get better and you'll get better and, and, and you'll get more refined about what it is that you're looking to do. Yeah. I think that's really good advice for anybody who wants to do anything on their own is if you have an idea, just do it, just go with it. And kind of what you're saying, it doesn't have to be perfected and it's not going to be perfected. Probably for quite a while. I think that that might be my philosophy in the kitchen too. Like just try it, just give it a go. And if it doesn't turn out how you want it to, you just try again. And I've also said this before, but done is better than perfect. Yeah, it's true. That is a good one. Yeah. I'm going to put that in my list of quotes. I love quotes. So what was your, your background? Did, what did you study in school? Did you take cooking classes? Um, were you scared when you were thinking, oh, I'm going to be on my own doing this? Um, so that's loaded three questions. Yeah. Um, so I, uh, in my undergrad, I studied sociology and I really loved understanding why people are the way they are. So that incorporated a lot of family background, a lot of, um, elements of psychology and really understanding the brain and how we're wired. And when I graduated, I had, very little idea of what I wanted to do. Um, and so I ended up actually working for a hedge fund for a little over a year and realized that is not my calling and not where I come alive. I would sit in front of computers all day and just think like, oh, I need to connect with people and I need to do something tactile. And yeah, that's so far. Yeah. Very far. But it's good. It's good to learn what does not make you come alive. Right. So I did that. And then, um, the opportunity for me to go back to grad school opened up and it was, um, I was like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. And so I was in a human development program, which was a blend of sociology, psychology, and theology. And I went back with the intention of becoming a family counselor. So I thought, I really want to be a family counselor. I want to help people work through family drama and all of these things. And fast forward, I ended up being a wedding planner. I launched this company with a friend and I joke that I got to do family counseling because all the time in weddings you are calming people down and dealing with family drama. Um, but that was my, um, but that was my grad program. And during that time, I actually worked on campus, um, as a resident director. So I would live in the dorms and oversee a dorm for students. And we, uh, as resident directors, you are often having students over just for coffee or for a meal or something. And I threw dinner parties all the time, unofficially just for my students. I would have them. I loved living in your dorm. I know outside of my door would always be like baked goods. They had it, they had it really good. But, um, I would have them over for dinner all the time. And it, it became a place of conversation. You know, you you're around a table and you've got these students who are hungry to understand who they are and hungry to understand their lives. And they think you're like the cool older grad student. So we would just spend hours talking about boys, talking about life, talking about anything. And, um, it was all around this concept of food. So, uh, you know, I think, it was in many ways, this preparation for me that I didn't even understand was happening because I became very comfortable with serving large groups, groups of people and not even flinching about it. It just became like, oh, of course I'll have eight people over for dinner and we'll make tacos. You know, it'll just be something along those lines. So, um, that was in grad school. And then I graduated, did my wedding planning company, loved it, but realized that weddings are not, not the world that I want to be in forever. Let me back up. Just a minute. So coming out of grad school and, and, and previous, your, your main job had been hedge fund, which you totally knew no way. Um, was that scary? Jumping into launching a company with a partner and, and what kind of entrepreneurial experience had you had? Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I would say I wasn't really scared. I, I was more, um, maybe anticipatory. I was also young, so I had really wide eyes on business. I just thought I can do anything. And I, I still kind of feel that way. I still think like I can do anything, but. And you can, and everybody can. And I wish that everybody had that philosophy. Yeah. And there's, there's a fearlessness that comes with being younger that sometimes I think that is a gift. Like if you can start a company when you're young, that you just are a little less fearful sometimes. And so, um, yeah, I wasn't really scared and I knew that I knew that I was the kind of person that needed to do something that I loved in order to, to be okay in the world because that, that season at that hedge fund was really challenging for me. Um, it was a great job. It was great people, but I remember thinking I, I can't do this. I'll never be the girl that can just have a job for the sake of a paycheck. I'll die on the vine. Yeah. Yeah. I really felt like that. And so, um, I also, I've been really blessed to be, um, like financially provided for when, when I need to be provided for. So I, I never had this fear of, um, not having enough. I think that was kind of hammered out in me. And so it gave me the freedom to say, I'm just going to go for this and really trust that it's going to work out. And I think too, you know, when I started that wedding planning company, I, I had no money coming out of grad school, but there's also this sense in, um, it, it, in that kind of environment where you just have to make money then you just have to make it work. There's something about, you gotta be hungry. Yeah. And if there's no security blanket for you to fall back on, you have to make it work. So somehow we made it work. So yeah, I would say it wasn't, it wasn't scary. It was just, it was more for me an adventure. Like this is going to be fun. This is going to be cool to figure out, um, how to do this. Cause I didn't, I didn't really know anything about business at that point. Um, I also, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I also in grad school, I had a couple professors who were incredible advisors to me in terms of going forward in business. Um, in my program specifically, there was a professor who had a business background, but now was teaching in my program. And so he kind of came alongside me and just walked me through the whole process of writing a business plan, writing marketing materials, all of that. Fabulous. So you had a mentor. Yeah, it did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. is a really healthy practice as an entrepreneur. I agree. I think it's very important to look at your competitors to not so you can copy them, but so that you can learn from them. And also just to look at anybody who's successful in business or even unsuccessful and see what are they doing right and what are they not doing that's not working so that you don't have to repeat the same mistakes. Or reinvent the wheel. It's great to do that. And also to gain inspiration from others as well. So very important to have that kind of support. And some people say, well, how do I find a mentor? And you can't just go up to somebody like in the children's books and tap on somebody's shoulder and say, hey, can you be my mentor? You have to develop that relationship too. That wouldn't have happened with the instructor if you hadn't already built that relationship. And I found that most people really want to help. And so it's kind of easy if you can build that relationship with people. Like you said, go have coffee or something like that and build the relationship and not just be in a position of, will you give me information, but be in a position of getting to know each other and building that relationship, like I said. Yeah, I think you're right. I think there's something, really powerful too about the relational piece because I think people can instantly sense when you just want something from them. And so if you walk into a coffee date with somebody new, I think they can intuit if you actually want to understand and know who they are or if you're just out to get something. Right, right. So it's very important to be real, to be giving and to be there for, just to be, a real person and not just a taker. Yeah. I think it's very important. I agree. So I think all entrepreneurs can kind of learn from that information. Do you have a favorite quote? Oh gosh. I say this all the time and I actually got it from a mentor of mine in college and it's simple, but it says the good is the enemy of the best. And this kind of comes through in a lot of aspects of my life. But I think sometimes we take things and we think, oh, it's good. And then we just settle in that because it's safe or it feels comfortable. I love that. Yeah. And it's actually the enemy of the best because it's keeping you from pursuing the best life, the best relationship, the best job, the best whatever it is, just because you feel safe and comfortable with what's good. Wow. That's powerful. Yeah. It's a good one. I think we all, we need to get out of our comfort zone sometimes. And I agree because getting into that good place, just exactly what you said, feel safe and you don't want to rock the boat. And what if you try a little harder or try something new? And what if it doesn't work? Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. Which makes me think of, I have a bracelet and it says, what if I fail? And it says, oh my darling, but what if you fly? Yeah. Oh, I like that. Yeah. That's really good. There's a, there's a concept by this psychologist called Piaget and it's called disequilibrium. And he, he basically believed that anything that we learn in life comes from a place of disequilibrium. So we are only growing and changing if we're shaken up a little bit. And I think, I think it's a good thing. Yeah. Not that we always want to live in a state of disequilibrium, but those moments, and you can think about them in, in your own life. Like when you have, you know, a tragedy happen or when you have, a hardship, that's what you actually, that's when you actually take time to self-reflect and think, what, what am I going through? How is this affecting me? And then it changes and orients your behavior in the future. So, yeah. Is there, is there anything that you, I guess I should also tell our listeners, anyone's listening, if you want to call in and ask questions, I'm having such a great time talking to Kara that I kind of forget about this, but if you want to call in and ask us a question, the number is 1-800-893-9000. And you can call us and, and ask myself or Kara a question. So, and now I lost my train of thought. Oh, is there anything, is, is there a failure that you can look back on and say, well, I learned from this besides like the wedding planning, but I'm talking about with, with where you're going now. And, and so then, then you go readjust or something that you left on the, on the floor. Yeah. Left behind. Um, um, yeah, it's, that's a really great question. I have a thousand failures, I'm sure. Um, but what's interesting is I think I'd like to take my failures and reframe them in my brain as growing opportunities. So I would say one thing that was, um, a really big challenge in my wedding planning company was my, uh, business partner. We were friends and we, um, we had very different communication styles and had to learn, uh, in a very challenging, way how to communicate. And I, um, I'm a pretty vocal and direct person and it took her longer to process through what she was thinking. And, um, I think that business partner relationship can be very, um, challenging. It can just be. Absolutely. Yeah. It's like a marriage. It is like a marriage. You're tying up your dreams and your hopes and your future together. So essentially at the end of the day, you're, yeah, you're, you're in a business marriage. so, I would say that was, that was one of the biggest challenges. I don't know that I would call it a failure, but I think it really, um, it shaped the way that I move or it shaped the way that I, uh, do business relationships going forward. And I am someone who is so adamant about expectations being clear from the beginning and having just an open line of direct communication all the time. And it's something that I prioritize. And I, I only work with people who prioritize that. So, yeah. Now that's great advice. And, and it's, and it's hard whenever people are going into a partnership because you're, you're kind of starry-eyed and you're excited and you're thinking everything will work out. And, um, and yeah, we can work through, through those challenges and that's not always the case. Yeah. So, I love that, uh, you said what you learned from that. Uh, did you have an operating agreement? And, uh, and, and are there, are there other things that you'd recommend someone definitely do besides put together an operating agreement? Yeah. Put together, um, like write down your strengths or figure out how you're going to divide and conquer or things like that? That's great. Um, I, we did have an operating agreement. We had all of our contracts set from the beginning. And, um, although you can't always know. Right. It's true. Everything. Yeah. And it's funny because I am someone who jumps into things. We talked about this earlier. I just, if I want to do something, I just kind of jump and make it happen. And I think there's such wisdom in surrounding yourself with people that are different than you. So, uh, when we started this wedding planning company, our lawyer said, let's get contracts in place. And I thought, oh, we'll be fine. We'll be okay. And I'm so glad we took that, that time to do that process in the beginning and really lay out, um, what the business would look like going forward. And even defining roles and defining, um, you know, the future of the company and having that in writing laid out in front of you for everyone to understand clearly. And I think there's so much wisdom in that. And I think too, if you're thinking about going into business with a person, I think really, uh, thinking through and saying out loud how, how your skill sets match together, how you guys would work as a team and forecasting that. And even forecasting, uh, forecasting potential hardships, even forecasting potential conflicts and saying, this might be an area where we will struggle. So if we can be a little more aware of that going forward, how are we going to practice compromising in a certain way? Kind of, it really is similar to marriage. It really is like, you know, going through marriage counseling or something where you're just learning, you're learning each other, you're learning what works to, um, yeah, to work together. So, yeah. Well, that's excellent advice and, and something that people who are looking to go into business with a partner can, can certainly learn from and, and, and try and just set your ego and your emotion to the side and then look at it as this is business. It's not personal. This is business. And we want it to, in order for it to succeed, this is the way to go forward. Yeah, I think so. Do you have a proudest moment? Hmm. Oh my goodness. Well, whiskey Wednesdays in general are proud moments for me. Um, I don't know if it's my proudest moment, maybe, but it's, it's amazing, Jen. It's so amazing every week to see this group of strangers around a table who don't know each other. And I'll like step off into the kitchen and I'm like sipping my cocktail and I'm looking at the table and everyone is connecting. Like it's authentic and genuine relationship happening in front of me. And the fact that I get to, um, curate that and witness that is, is a pride moment for me for sure. Just thinking like the business, uh, relationships or the new dating relationships or the new friendships that could happen in this room because of this table. Yeah, that generates a lot of pride for me. Yeah. Good pride. I would imagine. Yeah. I would imagine. Do you have, um, anyone who's, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, do you do, well, do you, do you do everything yourself or do you have, um, not employees, but have to go and find help and things like that? Yeah. So my good friend Heidi, um, has kind of been with me since the beginning of the Whiskey Wednesday concept. She was the friend that I drank the whiskey in the loft with and we were like, let's do Whiskey Wednesdays. So she has been such a supporter in, um, in helping me hash out this idea. And, and she oftentimes bartends. She's like my go-to bartender. So we'll come up with a cocktail recipe together and she will, you know, be the one serving it. So she is a consistent help for me. And recently I've actually started bringing on guest chefs, which is super fun for me. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because I, again, I love the food, but the food is a vehicle for me. So if I can bring on a guest chef and highlight somebody else's talent and still curate this night of connection for people, it's just as fun, if not more enjoyable, because it takes a little bit of the stress off of me where I can be more present with people and be more intentional in generating conversation and connecting with people. And then someone else gets to show off what they're really good at. So yeah, so sometimes I'm bringing on guest chefs and I love having someone help me with the bar. So how are you looking to experience and your business? So when you look forward into the future, how is this, you've been doing this for? A year and a half. Year and a half now. And how has it evolved and where is it going? Yeah, gosh, I don't know if we have enough time for that question because I could dream for hours. One of my skills is ideation. I love forecasting and dreaming. There's a company who actually has a title of a job. A job called like ideator or something. Yeah. How cool is that? I would be really good at that. They should hire me. Just kidding. So the one thing that I'm really focusing on this year in 2015 is that I want to kind of create a lifestyle around food. So everything that I've been saying about food being a vehicle and about aspects of our personality coming out in the kitchen and all of that, I really want to turn that into, you know, some kind of lifestyle brand. So as I think about Willow and Niche, one project that I'm starting to work on is cooking videos and very simple two to three minute tutorials in the kitchen where it's all about freedom for me in the kitchen. Like what makes you come alive? How can you take what's in front of you and create something out of it and, and look in your refrigerator and say, I have these ingredients and what can I do with that? So teaching your, your mind to think creatively about food is a skill that I want to teach people in video form. So that's one project that I'm working on. I love the dinner parties. I, I want to keep doing them consistently, but I'd really love to come up with a way to replicate the Whiskey Wednesday concept so that other people can do that. And I don't have to be the one that's present curating the night. So whether that's creating a Whiskey Wednesday box, you know, that comes with menus, you know, and table questions and recipe cards and all of that to give people a toolkit to, to host that dinner party on their own. That's another concept that I'm working on. And I think too, I'd love to write a cookbook. I really would. And I have been working with a couple of food photographers, just doing some beautiful styling stuff and, and playing around with the presentation of food. And it's so fun for me. It's so fun to be able to, yeah, to create. And I think that's at the heartbeat of what I want to do. I want to create around food and yeah, I, I'm always dreaming about other kinds of events. So again, using food as a vehicle, just taking this idea of connecting over a cocktail, and we're also going to paint together that night, or we're going to bring in a guest artist and they're going to teach us how to sculpt something out of clay. And then we're also going to, you know, make an apple pie that night together, or generating these, or creating these nights that are about creating and just being tactile and, and still creating community while you're in that environment. So those are some of the ways I'm hoping to grow my business. That sounds amazing. Well, I love everything you're doing. What, how do you inspire yourself? I mean, you don't have, at least I don't know that you have, I think, the same type of your office as being in your kitchen, uh, kind of thing. Uh, how do you motivate yourself to, to, even though you're an idea person, you also have to be an action oriented person to put these into play. Yeah. Um, because ideas are kind of a dime a dozen. Yeah. Um, and it's impossible to put everything that pops into your head into play as well. Um, so how, but how do you, uh, motivate yourself to, to get up and have, I don't know, maybe a formal kind of work day because you're doing stuff to, to generate money, hopefully, um, presumably. Yeah. And, um, how do you stay focused, especially when you're, when your brain is exploding with different, uh, firecrackers? Yeah. That's so funny you say that. I always say I have a firework brain. Um, that is the lifelong question for me of how do I focus? Because when you are someone who is idea oriented, you can go off on all these little rabbit trails of what you could do. And I think for me, it's right. And shiny object syndrome. Yeah, that's a good one. That's what it is. Essentially. Um, I have incredible relationships in my life. I have incredible girlfriends who know me, who hear me talk about everything all the time. I'm a verbal processor processor. So they're hearing all my dreams all the time and they really keep me grounded to pursue, um, pursue my dreams. And they, they're really good at kind of keeping me in line with what those dreams are. So if an opportunity comes along that is a bright and shiny object, a lot of times I'll, I'll have a friend counsel me and just, and just say, that's not in line with your brand. That's not in line with what you want to do. Turn it down. And so, um, I think inspiration and focus for me comes a lot of times through relationships. I have a lot of friends that are freelancers in LA and do their own thing. So we often have work days together. We often work, you know, from the loft or from a coffee shop and we'll have like dream sessions where we kind of hash out where we're going in the world. And that really helps to give me focus. Um, I also, uh, I am an avid coffee person in the morning. So drinking my coffee at seven 30, eight o'clock whenever I wake up and just kind of sitting still for a while in the morning helps me orient myself. I'm not just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I just think it's a good practice to, to practice slowness in the morning and just be still. And, um, it's kind of your meditative moment. Yeah, it is. It's a moment just to connect with myself and my dreams. And, uh, what does this day hold as opposed to just jumping in and kind of scrambling through the day? Um, it also helps that I do work with Courtney and Tuna that has added a lot of structure, um, to my days, simply because, because you have to, when you work on different things, you have to prioritize things. So, you know, on certain days, Tuna becomes a priority. And then on other days, dinner parties becomes a priority. And it has created this, uh, very fluid yet structured life over the past year. Um, which I think I thrive in having a little bit of structure, but a lot of freedom in that structure. Yeah. Yeah. Were there ever naysayers that said you shouldn't, what are you thinking? You need to go get a job. Oh yeah. All the time. All the time. Still all the time. Sometimes I even think, oh gosh, do I need to get a job? But no. Um, I think, I think people, maybe especially, you know, my parents' generation really valued security and stability. Um, and even still, there will be people that say, well, don't you want benefits? And don't you want a consistent paycheck? And I honestly, I don't think I do. I think I, I prefer to live in adventure. And prefer to live, um, in a way where I'm figuring it out as I go. But yes, there are always naysayers. And I think people just have opinions about what you should do in general. And I think at the end of the day, it comes down to what we talked about earlier. What makes you come alive? When, when are you in your zone? And for me, that is not in a nine to five job. So. Yeah. No, I, I, I think it's important for you to understand that everybody's coming from a different place, but you need to be able to, you know, you need to be able to, you know, you need to be able to, you need to be able to, but you know you best. And you know what you need best. Yeah. And you know what will work for you best. Yeah. And it sounds like you have the philosophy that if this doesn't work, I'll figure out something else. Yeah. Um, and you're still young and you don't have a family to support. Right. You have you to support maybe, but you don't have a family to support where you have to count on, on something. I think that's a really good point. I think, especially with, with my generation, you know, we're getting married, much later, having children much later, and we've been offered a, a great freedom to be able to pursue what we want to pursue without the responsibilities that, you know, come with marriage and come with children. And I think, I think even counting that as a gift has been something that I, I'm continuing to learn and continuing to be grateful for because, um, even this, you know, this past week I was in Mexico with my family and my, I just turned 30. So happy birthday. Thank you. Thanks. It's crazy. What day was it? Uh, January 6th. Awesome. Last Tuesday. Yeah. So I, um, I was in Mexico and my mom and I were chatting and when she was my age, she had three children. And so life just looked different. She didn't have the freedom to run off to LA and pursue her dreams. And I think just keeping that in check and remaining really grateful for, for this opportunity. And this kind of life has been, has been fun for me to remember, like, it's not everyone's, it's not everyone's, um, lot in life to be able to just pursue your dreams because you want to. Um, I think some people, it comes with other things that comes with responsibilities that I don't have yet. Hopefully I'll have one day, but I don't have yet. Yeah. Well, I agree with you, um, on that level. And obviously you, it's, you might have to be obviously your, your mother couldn't abandon her children. Yeah. You know, if she had had, if she had had those dreams and maybe she didn't, maybe she didn't. Um, but I also do want to point out that there are also ways to work around those things too. If there had been a dream that was, uh, it might not have been as easy, but it wouldn't have been impossible. Yeah. And if there had been something, because so many things do start as a grassroot thing, and there's no doubt in my mind, just getting to know you through this interview with the kind of drive that you have and, and the creativity that you have, because, an entrepreneur is all about being creative yeah and figuring out how to overcome the challenges and and so if you were in the same position as your mother um and you had wanted this bad enough and that's kind of the key point you know and and and things looked very different um when your mom had you know three kids and and and you being 30 at this at this point in time um but no doubt that you would have been creative and tried to figure out a way of how can i how can i still have dinner parties and right i probably would have had my children like serving dishes exactly exactly so um not impossible not impossible um at any age and uh regardless so but definitely things are i'm not even going to say easier there's more support i think for you doing what you want to do um at this time at this in this era yeah and and that's what i i want people to kind of take take away from that yeah um i i meant to ask you did you uh how did you learn how to cook from your mother yeah um from my mom and from just trying it it was one of those things where i i watched my mom cook a lot and then um when i was 13 actually i just got into a baking spree i started baking all the time and it became very therapeutic for me we had um we had some rough times in our family when i was in my teenage years and going into the kitchen and being able to uh stir a dough you know a cookie dough was actually therapy to be able to uh use my hands and do something tactile um and it calmed my brain and it calmed my brain and it calmed my brain and it calmed my brain and i'm a very analytical and uh over thinking type person so when i'm in the kitchen i find that my brain just kind of settles a little bit it slows down um and i get to work towards creating something which again is fun for me so i would say i learned to cook just by practicing it and just by playing around um and i'm not afraid of flavor and i'm not afraid of spices i'm not afraid of trying things i'm not afraid of cooking i'm not afraid of cooking i'm not afraid of cooking i'm not so i'm always like making up weird stuff and people say are you sure that's going to go together and i just say well let's try it you know let's just try it so um i did i did a lot of cooking growing up but then um while i had my wedding planning company i actually for about seven or eight months worked as a private chef part-time for this guy in chicago he was an entrepreneur and he had started a tech company and was just working 16-hour days and he was doing like a lot of like domino's pizzas all day and he came to me he knew i had a little bit of a love for food and a food background and he said um would you want a private chef for me a couple days a week so i got to do that in chicago which um it really trained my skills in a presentation of meals where when i was just cooking for myself it doesn't really matter what your food looks like no it does because we eat it out of the pan yeah yeah seriously just eating it with a fork but now with instagram and such we have a much more visual you have to have it look nice yeah we have a visually oriented food culture which is kind of fun i guess it does make eating more fun when it looks beautiful but that year or those eight months whatever it was with him um i really worked on my presentation of food so that that trained my skills a lot as well yeah that's great uh yeah i kept wondering what your background was with that and it just goes to show that you don't have to be always be formally trained in something specific yeah is there someone who inspires you there are so many people that inspire me um specifically in regards to entrepreneurship well maybe in general because i think it all kind of blends together yeah oh gosh this is a great question like 25 people in my brain i name them off really quick um i yeah i actually have a friend uh her name is rochelle and she she inspires me daily she is somebody who is so entrepreneurial and who um she is like a dream cheerleader is what she is she sees you and she sees your dreams and then she is somebody who is cheerleading cheerleading you into those dreams and um she's very very smart she has a little bit of a finance background and so her her brain thinks in a very entrepreneurial way but differently than mine um which i feel inspired by because i feel empowered by her skill set to say wow i actually can do this and wow i actually can make these dreams happen and um and i think she inspires me because it's not it's not just about her dreams and it's not just about what what she wants to accomplish in the world but it's also about fostering that in other people and ushering other people into their dreams. And she's actually turned a business, turned herself into a business out of that, where she comes alongside and enters into small businesses and says, how can we make you grow? How can we make you thrive? And that is her whole business. So she's a complete inspiration to me. Very cool. Well, I think it's important for all of us to have that kind of support. Um, and I appreciate so much you coming in and sharing what you've done. And hopefully that'll support others who are looking to launch their business. So thank you for being my guest. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. This was so fun.