Exploring sexual fantasies and phone sex

Hi, good evening. Good evening. How are you doing? I'm good. What's new and exciting, my love? Let's see. I just got back from a wonderful weekend. Of course. Wonderful hotel sex all weekend long. So, quite wonderful. I'm very glad. Oh, honey. This is such great news. All you do is vacation and have sex. This is like ridiculous. It's glamorous. It really is. I know. I know. I feel like every woman should be enjoying this. Oh, yeah. I agree. Yeah. I agree. So, I want to welcome our wonderful listeners, our dirty listeners. Oh. You know, we have two introducers. I'm Dr. Limor Blockman. Hi. Hi. I'm Luanne Hernandez. Thank you for listening to us tonight. Thank you for listening. This is Sex and Dippity and our wonderful dirty listeners. We're hoping that you're undressed. And if you're not, please disrobe this fucking instance because you're desecrating our debauched, you know, sacred ground here. Right. Well, perhaps we can help you with that a little bit later on tonight. Yes. You'll have to reciprocate. So, what are we talking about tonight? I think what we're talking about are fantasies. What's your fantasy? What do men fantasize about? What do women fantasize about? So, you know, and especially in this voice. I know. We should use this voice the entire time. I know. Through the entire show. It's getting hard. It's getting hard already to maintain. That's what he said. I know. I'm sure you helped. So yeah, so fantasies. So what do you think? What's you know? You start? What do you think? What do I think about my fantasy? Yeah, fantasies. Let's start with yours. Mine are filthy and awful but I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way. Please. Well, it's crazy. It's crazy because I giggle because I'm like, oh, I spend a lot of my day fantasizing. That's terrific. I mean. As you should. I mean, there's the like sweet little like, oh, wouldn't it be nice to like try this thing out with Brett and like whatever. You know, just sweet ones like having sex in different areas, like. Locations. So that's the thing. I realize the thing I really enjoy is having sex when I'm not supposed to. Like, you know, sneaking into it. That's what you mean. Like just grabbing an hour in between. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. Stuff like that. Like if there's a party going on downstairs, I'm like, hey, hey, hey. I need help with something upstairs. Hold on. Can you help me? That's a fantasy or you're acting out. Actually, I act those ones out. The ones that I would not act out usually involve. Like multiple partners and like. Yes. And well, we'll get to why you wouldn't. But it's messy and it's complicated. And there's too much clean up. Too much clean up. And then once there's like all of these people around and you're like, you're just not focusing on your own pleasure as much as you'd like to. Once there's more than one organ around, it's like I know I'm not enjoying myself because I'm like, there's too much. There's too much stimulus. There's too much going on. You don't know what to do. The thing is, really, they can be of service, you know, the more the merrier. But we'll get to it. Let me just start and say that one of my favorite writers was Nora Ephron. And I loved her. And I think she was brilliant. And one of her one of my favorite quotes from her was in my sex fantasy, nobody ever loves me for my mind. Yes, that's true. Everyone's just so overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed with desire for my body. So and basically what she depicted in this quote is really something that women really can relate to very well. I mean, and I'm not going to start with it with quoting other professionals yet. But in general, the main thing that women crave is to be desired, to be looked at as irresistible. To be that's almost half of the orgasm itself. To be just looked to be coveted, to be adored, to be desired. And that shows itself in many empirical studies and also just random questionnaires with women as to what their fantasy is. Let me start and say that Aristotle actually kind of founded the whole idea of fantasy when he said, and I want to quote what he said. And I want to quote what he said. He said that both sexes could be incited beyond any immediate need for sexual intercourse, induced by the memory of past pleasure. And so, you know, regardless of something that is right before you, imagination is what works for you as a trigger to your desire. And he actually didn't call it fantasy, but that's what he was referring to, which is fascinating. And, you know. Look at him. He's like, I'm going to put it in the spank bank. I know. Well, the spank bank back then in antiquity was kind of a problem. But yeah. So he actually, you know, kind of realized that there was something going on there, that people are getting aroused without any reason obvious to the eye. Like, I don't understand why you have an erection right now. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's going on, you know. And it's like, I want to ask you as someone who's been in the same situation for a long time. I want to ask you as someone that knows men. What do you think the top male fantasy would be? Oh, I'm very curious about what this one is. I'm getting a little excited. The top male fantasy. Yeah. Huh? I don't know. Is it the? I read something about like. I read something about like teacher-student type of thing, like submissive dominant type of relationship. Yeah, there are a bunch of themes and stuff. But there are a few factors and it's so ridiculous because to me, you know, when I'm like really going to line up what they supposedly fantasize about, it's so obvious. It's a fantasy. Oh man, you can have a deal with all these things. Oh, the threesomes? Well, we'll get to the threesomes. But it's funny that a lot of them were like explaining as to, and I'll get to the whole idea of the ideal woman and whatever that entails. I'm not, I'm not free. I'm busy tonight. I'm busy tonight. But honestly, so it was like so cliche in a manner that you really want to really line up and you cannot deal with a woman like that. Forget it. You can go home and masturbate. So, you know, in general, it would be someone that of course looks like a model. The male fantasy. Well, not necessarily a model, but someone that really represents, of course, that's a cultural thing and whatever. But someone that commands dirty talk, first of all. I mean, that's a crucial thing. She should know how to talk to me and how to incite me and, you know, the whole idea. And, you know, of course, she needs to rock garters and lingerie. And look great in all this, you know, whatever ridiculous. I was all, continue. Please, check, check, check. I know, I'm like done. Of course, you know, master the performance of pole dancing or anything that has to do with that. And, you know, bake a cake wearing nothing but her sexy apron. Yep. And that's what she wants. I was like, I haven't heard anything yet. I know that I cannot. But I haven't done. It's all in me. Done. Yeah. Naked cake. Probably not the most sanitary. I know, with your little apron. It's really like. Yeah. So, you know, that's kind of, you know, oh, that's what you want. Liar. You can't deal with that. I know. Lies. I know. You tell me lies. So, yeah. So that was like one of the things that many men kind of. Well. All focusing on the visual. Of course. Yeah. And well, it's pretty obvious. And men are very visual, you know. No. But I cannot say that women are not. And that's a complete myth. And we'll get to it. But I want to start with something that was a big phenomenon in that started in the 80s. And that's something that everybody was introduced to, which is phone sex. That's a big, big side of fantasy. And I want to really hear. What do you think? I mean, it's still, of course, a big, big factory. Some would say that it makes close to 50 million. State wise. Oh, yeah. Well, let me tell you, like, the brain is the biggest sex organ, as we know. Well, the skin is. But. Yes. Close. That's true. Yeah. Second biggest. Second biggest. The brain. And it's, you know, it's exciting and arousing. And when I introduced Brett to that, he was like, oh, what is that? How did you introduce him to that? I just started talking dirty. I just started. Okay. Yeah. When he was away. Yeah. I was just like, hey. What do you think? I mean, what do you think is so arousing about phone sex? Well, the idea that the person that's on the other side of the line is aroused all the time. Yeah. And the person that's on the other side of the line is aroused also. Well, you think that the person that gives the phone sex is aroused? I think the fan. That's the whole. Well, they're fantasy. Okay. So, yeah, I want to hear what you think. I mean, analyze. It's the psychology that the other person on the other line is telling you all these things that they want to do to you. And you can imagine it. And they start, you know, you start making the, hmm, that feels so good. I like him. You touch me there. Stuff like that. You know, you start doing. Are you moonlighting? I'm moonlighting. I'm moonlighting. I'm moonlighting. Are you moonlighting? Am I moonlighting? I mean. You can come on. Come clear. Just say. Okay. I don't do it for pay. That's a shame. Okay. So, yeah. So. Yeah. So the fantasy. The idea that I'm supposedly interested in what you really have to tell me. Yes. And you don't have to worry about their face. Like, oh my God. Like, ew. That's disgusting. Yeah. You know, you don't have to worry about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. them saying like yeah like i really want to put my dick in between your tits or something like that you're like oh you know let's talk about it i don't know you don't have to worry about it's the same out it's the same type of thing as like a person would get with a prostitute right but that's a visual side what i'm what i'm uh questioning is what is so let's just start and say that the man the the main um audience is obviously male yes i mean there are hardly any women using phone sex so what what is so enticing about it they can envision the person on the other line to be whatever they want them to be right or they want them to look so that's the that's i think that's part of it what else is there anything that has to do because we said that men are visual yes and then that kind of excludes anything visual I mean you have your imagination but this is also you know it's very sensual to hear someone's voice telling you things right that they want to do to you and how that makes you feel yeah you know I mean I'm getting so excited yeah I know I know it's like so honestly these a 900 numbers they call them the fantasy lines I don't know if they use I think they're not using the 900 numbers anymore because you can't call them from cell phones so they kind of change the whole system yeah it became like a problem and they they changed it but there were a bunch of feminist groups they were opposed to to the whole idea of phone sex which I don't really agree with but there was something in in Bernard College in 82 that it was uh relating to the whole thing as the pleasure danger controversy which is on one hand you know providing a service on the other hand it could be maybe degrading to women or maybe putting them in danger maybe someone will stalk them or whatever I don't really think it's a problem and you're selling a product but what I find intriguing about this whole phone sex thing is that um and I'll I'll read you from their manual it was really a fascinating fascinating research that I did on this and um the whole thing was based on the male perception of the ideal woman as if it's like something so universal that there's an ideal woman what is what the is the ideal woman I want to understand we're right here I don't I know we're free I know I know I know I know I know I know but seriously it's like the idea of the ideal woman is is pathetic to me because there's no such thing there's no such but you are still selling a fantasy of that and then uh the manual actually for for the women working was fascinating and said um how to open and maintain a conversation oh I want to hear yes start with the ideal woman let me I have to get my yeah my voice on to the bimbo the nymphomaniac the mistress the slave the transvestite the lesbian the foreigner the Virgin if the caller wants someone else don't be insulted just be someone else I'm going yeah to start a conversation ask what's on your mind uh what would you like to talk about never initiate sex let the client do that to keep them interested tell a fantasy of a child one preferably that should include honey jello travel ice cream lesbian love orgies and so on if the conversation remains clean tell a story about movies books and all sorts of things insist that it's a true story be professional don't speak to anyone else other than the caller what do you think what I find interesting is that I know the transvestite comes before the virgin or the foreigner it's kind of but okay if that's that's the fantasy but the idea is really you know again going back to the ideal woman I mean everything that was detailed in this manual is kind of so stereotyped and so you know include this include that orgies lesbian sex I don't know jello it's not as fun as it looks yeah it's not as and there's a lot of cleanup yes but so the whole idea of using women's language or you know terms of women's language is to be able to tell the story of the woman and to turn you on as as as a selling you know edge was was actually analyzed very intensely by many people in the in this in this industry and Robin Lakoff is a big researcher that said that she was she came up with the dominance approach and she said that among other things of course phone sex as well but in general women's speech is is representative of powerlessness that everything that women say the way they use questions tag questions the way they use specific words like oh wonderful beautiful the way they try to so oh what or that or you know like use connecting words that are giving you a bigger admiration or other relation to a to speech we're really kind of firming and affirming female powerlessness what do you think you think it's it's true I mean that that that's what actually is so sellable about phone sex as a fantasy the women are presenting themselves as powerless yes yeah I mean it makes sense I mean you're basically at the I mean it's just like any other sort of Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy 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Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy powerless women not I don't think I don't think it's I think that's the element that takes place societally okay but I think that what actually turns a person on varies and like whether you're whether you're on the phone and you're being like I need you to take off your pants right now and then I want you being dominant or yeah I mean that's like that part isn't the like there's the societal aspect of what's actually occurring the process and then there's the actual fantasy part and I don't think that the men are consciously seeking that like powerlessness of the woman I don't think they're necessarily consciously seeking it but I think unconsciously they probably like it sounds you know that's what they're doing because they have to pay in order for this to occur you know because oh of course yeah you know because obviously they don't have somebody to do it yeah of course so you're buying something yeah you're buying the product but if it's somebody that you like if it's outside of that you know monetary exchange then it's a totally different the element completely and so I think that comparing phone sex that you pay for to phone sex that occurs within a romantic relationship or you can't you know you can't do that and I think that the the elements that are going on there like what is turning the person on isn't necessarily that they're paying for it it's what the person's saying which could be a myriad of things right you know and but they're both fantasies yes whether you pay for it or not yes I mean you create a fantasy while talking you know dirty talking on the phone or you know selling uh something like that so um yeah I mean we still haven't touched the the the idea of what do men you know how do men uh differ from women when it comes to fantasies and so a bunch of of course women are different from men and so I think that's a really important thing to think about when you're talking about what do men fantasize about what do women fantasize about you want to give it a shot oh god men are very simple yeah as far as I know they really like to fantasize about like you said the ideal woman that they're having sex with or their partner I think actually I think when people are in relationships when they're like in the like exciting part they're kind of still envisioning their partner for a while um but I think that's a really interesting thing to take away there um there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there there 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Being so desirable that a man can't control himself. He just has to have you. He just has to have you right now. I know. I can't wait. I mean, yeah. Like body heat. Like, let me break the door open so I can just take you. Exactly. Another question that I want to refer to and ask you what you think, just out of whatever comes to mind. When do you think women versus men, when do they fantasize? During masturbation, intercourse, both? What do you think? When is it taking place? I know. I'm like, it's a personal experience. Yes, please. Depending on the partner. Sometimes it's like, be anybody but who you are. That sounds really bad. Yeah. Well, you know, you're, you know. I'm like, I'm a dry desert right now. I'm like, be anybody else. You know, but you've been with someone for a long time. It's like, you're like been doing the same thing over and over again. You're like, oh my God. You're like, please just make it stop. You know, it's like, oh, it's Wednesday night. You know what that means? It's time for that. Yeah. Okay. So studies show that approximately 95% of society fantasizes. Men tend to do it more often in regards to, in relation to any situation. And that means that they can see a hot woman on the street and they can fantasize. Women tend to do that less, not as common. Both sexes use. They use fantasy while having intercourse. And when it came to masturbation, mostly men had more to do with, with fantasy, even though I don't necessarily agree, but this is what scientifically. What people report? What people report? I dunno, you know, I tend to disagree with the part about masturbation because I think it's a big part for a, it's a big chunk of, of, of fantasy being, uh, taking place there for women. Yeah. opinion press both personal like whoa I was like I have a whole exciting life when I'm double clicking my mouse yes please let me just go through my rolodex here I'm like uh my spank bank here we go let me see what I'm looking at yes but um yeah so and then when it came to I'm gonna go over the themes that are actually uh the main themes for uh fantasy for both sexes but what men were mainly fantasizing about was group sex and anonymous partners someone that you don't necessarily know but as we said depicts the ideal partner and group sex was a main main thing I mean most of them reported that they would like to be with in a harem of no well I mean like because sometimes that's that's also one of the fantasy well yeah you know a few men having sex with one woman was also yeah a part of it but most of them preferred to have some lesbian action going on in their presence like they could handle more than one yeah some of them cannot even handle one but okay um depends who that one is but um yeah so group sex in general was a main thing with men and with women I find it interesting and kind of intriguing um the two things that were more appealing were one uh sex with famous people a very interesting thing yeah yeah sex with famous people they just you know picked oh this celebrity he's on my bucket list I want to have sex with him you know that would be my main fantasy I would fantasize about I don't know who's hot um I don't know who's hot um I don't know who's hot um I don't know who's hot um I don't know who's hot um i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i interesting i mean they weren't fantasizing about they were fantasizing about anonymous women but not necessarily about megan fox i don't know like that's interesting yeah um so women did uh report that they were fantasizing about famous partner partners and the other main thing was uh same sex uh lesbian lesbian sex yeah what do you think does that make sense well it's kind of like these taboos that people that's one of the great things about fantasies you don't actually have to do them they don't ever have to actually be possible so you think it's because of some social taboo about sure i mean that makes it a little more exciting i think that they're i think the source of that fantasy with women do you think well i also just think that the female body is much more attractive than the male body let's just be real given but let's just be real let's just keep it yeah yeah you know it is i mean there's something very erotic about the female body with its you know more rounded texture and like the curves flow it's more like water yes and yes men's bodies are like hopefully rocks hopefully it's just nice chiseled this and it's getting hot okay so um so i want to refer to because i find it interesting and as a woman and as uh someone that is involved in mental health and you know likes to analyze this this whole situation i find it very interesting and i went and checked and um there are many many uh sources that regard to female sexuality in terms of of um same sex or or um the opposite sex i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i about female desire in general because it's so vast and there's so much to say. But so female sexuality is fluid, meaning that, yes, we are born with an orientation. I don't want to go through the whole thing. I'll just touch that subject. That women, and that's why every heterosexual porn movie has a lesbian scene and not a gay scene because sexual relations between women are not only appealing to men, but to women because women find other women attractive. Most of them will not, you know, attest to it. But unfortunately, because it's a very normal and functional part of female sexuality. And so because it's fluid, women sometimes are very confused about it, but they don't really know what to make of it that all of a sudden, you know, there are heterosexuals and they love dick. But all of a sudden, the next door neighbor is like, ooh, she's hot. I like that. Yeah, I would invite her in. So and you don't know what to do with that information. You know, it registers that you're aroused, but you don't know what to do with it. It's kind of weird. So let me just calm everybody down and say that female sexuality is fluid and that makes sense and the whole thing. So. That fantasy about being with another woman is a very common. Natural. Very natural, very common thing with women and a very big theme when it comes to female fantasy. So there were four themes that were main when it comes to both sexes. One was images of imagery of having sex with the ex or someone that you fantasize about or imaginary, like not even anybody. Let's just say, you know. I'm not in a few minutes. I'll get to the whole romance novel, which is. But let's just say that I'm fantasizing about Christian Grey. OK, so I'm I'm thinking in my head that he looks like John Hammond, you know, and then we'll have wild sex in his dungeon or something. OK, so that's the image. That's the imaginary partner that I'm thinking about. Both men and women do that when it comes to that. The second. Third theme was sexual power and irresistibility. So, again, we're going back to the whole idea that I'm irresistible and men are just attacking me with their penises. They just can't get enough. It's just so much. Come at me. I don't know what to do. I know. It's like insane. So that was the second theme. The third one was different positions or different locations, as you said, or, you know, settings, different settings. You know, it could be on the table, on the table. Cabana. Cabana. On, you know, on a hot tub. Hot tub. Right next to a pool. On the beach. On a banana leaf. Yeah. All of that applies. On a boat. On a boat. Would you, could you on a boat? I don't know. I'm getting seasick. Just am I facing the ocean? I'm like, you know, it's like traveling against. The direction of. Yeah. Yeah. And the last one was about being either a submissive or dominant, which I find very interesting. And I think that to me, it's one of the main themes when it comes to both sexes. The dominant versus submissive theme is a big, big one. More to me than the position or settings. Well, I think they kind of go intertwined a lot. Yeah, that's true. The whole like setting of the office, right? The office. Yes. You're doing it at the office. Okay. You call in. Your boss calls you in. Your secretary calls you in. A caller calls you in. What did you want? Yeah. Let me just take notes. Do I need to work late today? You know. I thought you were going to say, do I need to wear latex? Oh. It sounded like. I know. That's where. That's next. That's the second. That's the next one. With the whips and chains. Yeah. So that was. Yeah. Very interesting. I mean, the submissive or the dominant part was very common. And I find it very relevant and very true. Indeed. But I want to get to the romance novel. And no judgment. No names named. I said the name of the character, but I don't want to refer to a specific novel. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Okay. And I'm not a big fan of romance novels. I find them. Uh, but I want to ask you, what do you think? Why is that such a phenomenon? I mean, is that really what women fantasize about? These long drawn out romances? I feel like it's like. The idea of it. I mean, not the novel itself, but there's a reason why it's selling like cult wise. Oh, do you mean the submissive dominant theme and the romance? No, I'm talking about the whole idea of the romance novel in general. Well, I think it's safe porn. What does that mean? Like you can walk outside and read it and you don't have to worry about judge. Yes. Okay. The judgment. Like if you walk outside with a hustler, everyone's like, oh, yeah. Look at that. Look at that. Isn't that nice? Yeah, exactly. With hustler with us. I mean, especially hustler. It is very exciting. Yes. Not much to the imagination. Yeah. No, everything is out in the open. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So you think it's just safe porn? Yeah. I think it's just safe porn. I think that's why women, a lot of, I think a lot of women have a lot of insecurities about exploring pornography in general. They feel like, oh, it's just, it's awful. I mean, there's. So I can get wet in my living room or at the pool reading that specific novel they were not naming and getting aroused without admitting that I want a tall, dark stranger touching my vagina. Yeah. Yeah. Handcuffing me down at the bed and doing all sorts of. Face fucking me. Exactly. Or titty fucking me. Titty. Yeah. Okay. So I agree with everything you said, but I, and there's an additional side to it, which I really tend to agree with. So Tanya Modleski wrote a book called Loving with a Vengeance, and she really analyzes the whole idea of mass fantasy. And how they are sold to women. And there's something very interesting because I'm sure you're familiar with the Harlequin romance novels from the fifties. Actually, I'm not. Okay. So that was the father of the founding father of all the rest and the ones that we're not naming right now. But in general, here's the theme of the Harlequin romance novels. And you'll tell me if it sounds like down to the last detail. So. A poor to moderate, you know, status woman, young, inexperienced, beautiful, falls for this wealthy, strong, handsome bastard. Now she's smitten with him, but she, she's really uncomfortable with his behavior because she doesn't know. I mean, he's sending different messages. On one hand, he's obviously interested, but then he's kind of brutal and not attentive. And maybe, you know, a little insulting and maybe, you know, even forceful in a way. Eventually, you know, of course he just comes out with his love to her and everything ends up in a lovely fuck bow and, you know, a traditional, you know, Asian massage, you know, happy ending kind of thing with the climax erupting all over the heroine's tits. Okay. So in general, does that sound familiar? Yes. Okay. Down to the last detail, right? So the thing is really, this is how the Harlequin novels were written and nothing really changed. I mean, women are consuming this genre, which is specifically exactly, exactly the same story. Only the names change, but the same story is being marketed to women since the fifties. And I find it very interesting because. Is it really, does that have to do with the fact that they can masturbate quietly or get aroused without admitting to watching porn or is there something more to it? And the analysis says that there is something more to it. And I tend to agree. And what Modleski in her book says is that women find it, you know, the idea of that, that they can be that, that womanizer. I mean, I think that's a very good point. I think that's a very good point. Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy Holy that is being taken and and you know possessed educated and educated is something that really and again that this whole and she uh relates to a commercial that was done back in the i guess 70s for these harlequin novels and that that um that commercial was uh had a woman lying on a bed uh reading that novel and talking to the camera and saying i'm ready to go into into my disappearing act yeah something very seductive so the disappearing act is actually this escapism that women go into but do they do this only with romance novels and as a fantasy or will or really in real life they're trying to uh go into this self selflessness i mean this this position of being selfless that is what these novels are selling this is the message that novels are selling to women and actually you know the whole idea of self-subversion and surrender is the main thing with these novels and that's is that really the the female fantasy women want to be controlled and possessed and and subservient and um all of the above sexually that they want to be sexually well the the sex is a big part of these women's novels as we know but in general is that like a secret fantasy is that something that because of female power we cannot admit anymore but these novels are selling like hotcakes yeah no i don't know i don't even know like it's kind of weird to me to think that you know some the submissive role is something that woman would fantasize about but then it's it's all also kind of perpetuated in different areas that women are subservient and that's what makes her desirable is this kind of like to men yeah well i mean i feel like that's marketed to women from an early age that they're the damsel in distress type of thing that you should be subservient because then men will want you yes okay and so it's it comes back to this whole thing of wanting to be wanted you know the whole desire aspect where it's like they want to be wanted and they want to do it at whatever cost possible even if it's at the expense of themselves okay so that's where it comes from that's what i think i mean based on some of the stuff that you know just putting it together like listening to all of it and thinking about it ultimately i think a lot of women want to be like we said desired and wanted and just unbridled passion for somebody you know let me just tear you to shreds okay so susan browning miller uh wrote in in her book against our will which was released in 75 it's an old book but she said that and i want to get to a very uh strong subject when it comes to fantasies she had a theory called the reflection theory and she said that women have no fantasies of their own that they're all male-fed uh fantasies uh and in specific she related to rape fantasies and she said that when women are said to experience rape fantasies they are actually being fed these fantasies by men that are fantasizing about raping women or being you know dominant or taking women and that's what it where it comes from that that has nothing to do with actually with women's minds of their own but actually something that is perpetuated by uh the male counterparts what do you think i mean it's kind of one of those things that's kind of hard to separate out like where where are all of our thoughts coming from and what do you think about the whole but let's go to the rape fantasy because to me it's a big big chunk of the fantasy world oh do women fantasize about being raped yes i think that's one of the top fantasies actually based on things that women report is that they call the force fantasy right it's like um maybe being coerced into some sort of lack of control maybe not necessarily um you know maybe not necessarily being raped per se per se but just being taken okay and again consumed like that your partners consume with desire and they can't handle not being able to have you at the moment that they want you and i think it's a very common fantasy and um yeah i don't think i mean i don't in terms of i don't think that we should judge our fantasy i don't think that we should judge our fantasy i don't think that we should judge our fantasies too much because sometimes people no judge not at all i mean it's whatever we fantasize about is by all means acceptable yeah and should never be judged what i'm what i'm interested in is trying to understand do women actually indulge in these forceful fantasies or are we being fed as women by by you know the the the patriarchal society or whatever uh as to what we're supposed to fantasize about and then it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it's just it grows into believing that it's our own fantasies or not i mean that's a question that's also a thing that's hard to kind of dissect in general like where where would you get topics for fantasies unless it's from the world around us right but in specific the rape fantasy um here's what i think and a lot of studies support that but i do think that um a bunch of them first of all american women in specific uh are twice as much as the american women in specific twice as likely than men and other women in other societies to uh fantasize about being being done to than to do being done to i mean that's that's how the term uh came to mind and what they uh the the um researchers found is that women are actually indeed fantasize about the rape fantasy or the forceful fantasy um very commonly like down to numbers of like once a week uh women reported having forceful fantasies and with the women reporting them 62 percent reported to have uh no you know aversive side to these fantasies i mean they were by all means something that they were interested in this the researchers also went and examined whether these women had any experience with coercion or you know being being attacked or being attacked by a woman and they found that they were not being attacked by a woman and they found that they were not being attacked by a woman as well as as younger women or you know just uh dragged into a forceful sex in any way none of these factors actually showed any significance in terms of of the the results so i do find and and of course as i said the theorists are very um very ambivalent about it because some actually say and mostly feminists uh say that it's not true that it's actually the you know males are are feeding us these fantasies and i say it's not true i say women do fantasize about being taken or forcefully and the main reason would be because um rape fantasies really remove guilt and to me that's the main part about fantasies especially to women and this is where i'm going back to the romance novel you don't feel guilty if you are being taken you don't feel guilty if you read about being taken and that's like a common thing a common thing to say about being taken and i think that's a common thing to say about being taken and i think that's a common theme in these books and in these fantasies where women just feel more comfortable being in the position of being taken but um and usually in these fantasies too it's like somehow you're getting pleasure out of this whole thing it's like oh you have to i mean i really just need to pleasure you right now like yes let me just let me just let me just go to town let me just go down at the wiper go to town no baby let me just go let me just go down at the wiper the next hour and a half it's like you know just stay down there okay i agree i mean i agree i mean um that is that is uh very true and in relation to that maslow actually put it into a very interesting uh he divided these women with their um preferred fantasies into a few uh three groups actually and he said that women that are endowed with high self-esteem usually um sought to be dominated which is interesting i mean if you have high self-esteem you're not interested in the you're not interested in taking charge but you are interested in being taken yeah which is a very interesting idea he said that mid self-esteem women women that were not like in the middle were fantasizing about being seduced and that after that Actually, women that had very low self-esteem had a very big tendency towards sadomasochistic fantasies. That's so interesting. Isn't that? How do they separate the low self-esteem and high self-esteem? Well, I guess questionnaires about other aspects of your life and in terms of... No, but I mean, how did they separate the sadomasochism desire from the force desire? Oh, well, most of them fantasize about, you know, tying someone and gagging them. So actual restraints. Actual, yeah. And that is interesting because in real life, if you are a little less confident, it seems, you would fantasize about taking charge and tearing apart someone else, which I find fascinating. Yeah. It's interesting. Isn't it? Yeah. Okay. So, and also when we, there are a few other theories that are related to other aspects of sexuality, but what do you think? Do you think that women are feeling guilty over fantasizing? And does guilt play a factor with fantasy? I think it does. And I think it's interesting because I don't think a lot of people share their fantasies with their partner because they're afraid of being judged. They feel guilty for doing it because they feel like it's abnormal. Yeah. And they're fantasizing when you're having sex with somebody else. What does that mean? When you're having sex with somebody else? No, no. What do you mean? When you have, when you have a partner, you should be guilty if you fantasize? No, no, no, no. I think a lot of women feel guilty. And I... That in their fantasy, there's someone else. I think even just that they're fantasizing. Oh, I'm trying to understand what you mean. Oh, no, no, no. Just even that they're fantasizing, like in general. Per se. Yeah. Okay. That they, you know, there's this like misconception that you're, that if you have a partner or the person that you're with. At that time. Is your end all and be all of your sexuality. It's like, yeah, no. Like... So what, there's exclusivity when it comes to your mind? But I think that some people think, and I think a lot of people do think that. And I think it's a little bit of a insecurity that men and women have. That their partner could fantasize about another person and leave for this fantasized person. But it's imaginary. It's imaginary. It's like an imaginary. It's an imaginary thought in my, in my head. But I do think, like, I mean, the way I see it, it seems like it's an imaginary thought. But, you know, I do think that fantasies, women do feel a lot of guilt about fantasizing. That we're, but again, it goes into that whole, like, we shouldn't be having sex. Sex is bad. Sex is dirty. Like, good girls don't do that. You know, type of things like that. Good girls don't masturbate. Good girls don't have sex. Don't fantasize. Yeah, they don't fantasize. They just have sex to procreate. And their partner brings them their whole fulfillment. And that kind of goes into the whole, like, weird, sick, dysfunctional thing that we're fed by society. That women are there to be used by men. And that's, you know, a woman's relationship. In this day and age, do you think it's still? Yeah. I mean, look at the wedding industry. Don't even get me started. I think that puts, I think that puts our society back a lot. At how much effort and, like, money is put into this industry to kind of be claimed by a man. To have your name taken from you. You know, to be. The women actually, you know, are interested in that. That's something they aspire to. It is. It is something women aspire to. Like, to be Mrs. Blah, blah, blah. That's definitely a cultural thing. And I think that it kind of feeds into this whole guilt women have about being, you know, this whole, like, ownership type of thing that's going on. You know, being Mrs. Smith. Is my ultimate goal. My God. If I can get his name on my mailbox, I'm, my climax will never be the same. That is just an awful thought. Well, but it's, you know. Again, I. It goes on. And, I mean, I think a lot of the wedding industry, like these bridezilla things, these, all of that stuff. It's kind of, it's, it's this fantasy that I have achieved something. Because a man. Will let me take his name. You've achieved nothing, girlfriend. That is, that is very sad and bad. You have ruined my high. I ruined my. That was a huge boner killer. Again, I need to. Yes. I'm like. Give me some hot men around here now. Right now. Okay. So, the thing is. Yes. A lot of studies show that women that suffer from guilt when it comes to anything sexual. Will be a much smaller fantasizer. I mean, most of them will not allow their mind to go where their bodies are not, you know, allowed in. So, and it's a big, big thing that women are not allowing themselves. It was, of course, more common with women. But men, you know, reported feeling guilty about fantasizing as well. And in some couples actually fantasizing about someone else. Even. Yeah. And that imaginary was considered cheating. And that's another thing that I wanted to hear your opinion about. Well, we don't have a ton of time. No, we have just a few, few minutes. Yes. But fantasizing about somebody other than the person you're having sex with. Is it cheating? No. Do you think people think it's cheating? I think some people think it's cheating. But I mean, again, like all of it goes on in the relationship. It's like you have to negotiate it. Like if the person. You have to negotiate. If my mind is going to act. So you have to negotiate. No, no. You have to negotiate and talk about it. And I think that's the problem. People don't talk about the fact that they're uncomfortable and explore what that discomfort is coming from. You know, is it an insecurity? Is it? Did my partner cheat on me? And now I'm concerned every time they're having, you know, every time there's a fantasy about somebody else. That that's the person. Okay. So something preceded. Like that's what I'm saying. Like you have to go in yourself, figure out what it is about this person fantasizing about somebody else or being turned on by someone else. That is affecting you so much and having you have that reaction. Right. Are feeling so insecure that you don't want them to pass. Because really, who cares? Like, I'm all right. It doesn't matter where you get your appetite as long as you come home for dinner. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, just eat. Yeah. Come and feast. Well, the thing is, I, of course, think it's preposterous to think that if you fantasize, you're cheating. I mean, it's pathetic by all means. But. But I do think that while you are talking about actually cheating in reality and then, you know, that proceeds, you know, admitting that you fantasized about someone else and that could create a whole situation. Yeah. A ton of crap. Okay. Yeah. A ton of crap. But the thing is, really, I think some things should be kept for as a fantasy. Some things should be shared. The main thing, in my opinion, is whatever makes you tick and whatever keeps you hot and bothered has a place in your bedroom, on your couch, on your table, under the table, wherever possible. Wherever you're backstage in the car. Just go fuck away as much as possible. And we're going to wrap it up. Yep. Okay. So we're inviting you to write us and call us. And, you know, stalk us, lock us in the trunk of your car. Any communication. You can fantasize about us as well. You can fantasize about us being locked there. Do not. I'm like, oh. Just, you know, throw a vibrator in there. Yes, throw a vibrator. So it'll keep us entertained. But truly send us your inquiries. We'll be happy to relate to them. And next show, we have a show about relationships. So we'll wait. Yeah. It's going to be fascinating. We're going to have a great time. Yeah. So we're going to have a great time. Yeah. So we're going to have a great time. Yeah. So we're going to have a great time. Yeah. It's going to be fascinating. We're going to have a guest. And we're inviting you to send us your questions. If you have any questions about relationships or your lives are just perfect. Or types of relationships or you do want to share your fantasy with us. Yes, please. If you'd like me to read your fantasy online, please send it in. And send your card. Yeah. Send your card with it. So I truly enjoyed it. Yes, me too. Yeah. It was fun. So it was fun. And join us next time. I'm Dr. Limor Blockhouse. I'm Dr. Limor Blockhouse. And I'm Dr. Limor Blockhouse. And I'm Dr. Lin. And I'm Luann Hernandez. Bye.