Neuroscience of BDSM with Lady Shiva

It's like you were doing some weird like Vogue thing. Rude. Whatever. Rude. Totally full. Whatevs. Someone's going to be really pissed. Anyway, it's cool. Oops. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.com. It's cool. Hey, hi. Hey, welcome. Welcome to Intellectual Kink. I'm Insidious Muse. I'm Service Slut. We're evil. Yes, we are. I'm sorry, go on. I'm sorry. Your hair always looks like really well when it's down. I don't know. I can never pull off the whole hair being down shit. I just can't. What do you mean? I don't know. Maybe because you put product in your hair. I actually did not today. I can't do that. It's still slightly damp. I let it down and it just looks like a triangle. It just looks weird. Well, you have Mexican hair? What the fuck is that? What is that supposed to mean? It's thicker and heavier. Doesn't have the same. And you don't dye it. Right. So, I mean, if you colored it, it would be processed and it'd be like, oh, hey. It'd give you middle finger occasionally. Like mine does. It'd be like, fuck you, bitch. I don't want that. I'll keep my white hair. You want that? It's a little bit longer. No, I can't. Can't tolerate it. Anyway, hi. Hey. We got a guest. Hi. We do. We're not dising here by ourselves. As it turns out. We have a guest. Welcome, Lady Shiva. Thank you. Very excited to be here. She's one of our local friends, obviously. Obviously. We don't really fly people in from out of state here. Not yet. We have a no budget show. Not yet. So, Lady Shiva actually gave this really, really interesting class a couple weeks ago. And we were there and thought this would be a fantastic topic on the show. And that is the neuroscience of BDSM. It's really more focusing on kind of like how you process pain. But it sounds so much better when you say neuroscience of BDSM. Yeah. Everything with science sounds better when you give it that nice big cool sounding word. The neuroscience of BDSM. And she wore a lab coat. I did. Yes. To the demo. With a corset, of course. It's very interesting. So awesome. So, we're here for you. We're here for you to tell us stuff. Cool. And we will interrupt you with questions. Awesome. We do. I have a lot of questions. I already were thinking of them. Well, I'm busy. I were thinking of them. You were thinking of them. Sorry. Oh, fantastic. Well, what I was talking about in my class was basically brain chemistry, the structure of the brain and how, you know, the brain processes pain. And I mostly focused in on pain because that's the most easily registered thing. And I think that's something that you can study, you know, all the other aspects of it, like healing and having a great time and all that stuff you can't really measure on, you know, with electrical imagery or brain mapping. But pain, pain is very easy to map on a computer and an MRI. You can just plug in someone and, you know, prick them with a needle and you see which parts of the brain light up and what chemicals are flowing and something that I was always really interested in and is basically the reason why I even took on a psychology major at first was so I could learn about what exactly does our brain do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So where do normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal normal feels good. It does. Yeah. Well, but then you have people that are outside of our world looking in. And although they may be fascinated, maybe on some level, they see that there can be pleasure in that pain. But they're like, why would that feel good? You know, or pretty much talk to any top. And they're like, why would I want you to whip me? What the fuck is wrong with you people? You know, but again, it has to do with how that person processes the pain and how it becomes pleasure to them, which is very interesting because it's all about your brain. It is. It all happens in the brain. And one of the reasons why I took on this kind of topic was because I wanted to give a really good scientific reason as to why BDSM can help people. Because that was always my argument was, well, BDSM can help people. I think it's good for you. You know, it purges you and relaxes you. And I realized that I was using all of these words without actually having any background to it. And as a psych major and a pre-law major, I was both got too much of a problem with it. And I was like, well, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do it. I needed to back up my sources. And so basically all of this is my baby and backing up my sources. And when someone says, well, I don't get it. Why? And I'm like, well, here's why. Here's the whole entire chemical process that I can lay out for you. And that's why, because science is real and you can't really fight what you find out during a big research study. And you can't really argue against that. Everyone knows that, you know, for example, dopamine makes you happy and it's the pleasure chemical and it's released in response to endorphins. Which we'll talk more about and stuff. And so, you know, having an actual solid basis for what I was saying to people was really important to me. And also a lot of it came from sparking conversations on the patio at threshold. You know, somebody would walk out after a great scene, I'm tired. And they're like, oh, wow, that was great. And you're like, hey, how was it? Oh, you know, the endorphins were just rushing and the adrenaline. And I'm like, but we don't really know what we're talking about when we say that, you know, what exactly is this? We always say endorphins. That's the, it's like the number one that everybody talks about. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know. Why do you think that? Oh, I'm sorry. Before we get to that, let's have her walk us through what goes on in the brain. I think that then that'll spark, hold on, you might want to write your question down. Don't forget it. I won't forget it. Well, I'll go into a very cliff notes-y version of it. One of the things that I found out during the class was I was spouting out all these really long, big words and everyone's kind of like, what? So I'm going to try to make it easy for everyone. Even me, when I was first learning about it, I was like, I don't get it. But basically in your body, you know, you have your nervous system and your nervous system is made up of two parts. It's made of your central nervous system and your peripheral nervous system. And your central nervous system is made up of your brain and your spinal cord. It's in charge of all your vital life functions, receives and processes information. So, you know, when you get hit with a flogger, it's your central nervous system that's like, oh, something just hit me and it hurts. What should I do about it? Then it uses the peripheral nervous system, to send that message to your body. So if I smack you in the butt with your flogger, your central nervous system uses your peripheral nervous system to send that down through all your nerves to your butt and then your butt will sting and hurt. And this whole process takes like milliseconds. I mean, less than a millisecond. So the smack is the sig alert and the peripheral is the news giving you the notification. Exactly. This just in, you have just been hit by a flogger on your ass. It was thuddy and there is a reverberating pain. More at 10. Hopefully more in five seconds. Yeah. And then, you know, I mean, there's so many different parts of the nervous system and everything. But the part that I was focusing on was something called the anterior lateral nervous system. And this part of the nervous system is in charge of sensory stimuli that has to do with temperature and pain and different kinds of crude touch and crude touches, you know, just very symbolized, you know, me touching, like doing motions when I'm on the radio, me touching my arm. Yeah, but we have video. Someone stroking you. Hello. And your anterior lateral system uses three different tracks to send this kind of information. The most important track is the spinothalamic track, which sends that sensory information to your thalamus. And then your thalamus sends that information to your cerebral cortex, this cool thing called the insular cortex. And the insular cortex is like that last final destination that processes the pain and figures out what's going on and tells you that something's hurting. Is it temperature? Is it hot? Is it stinking? Is it normal? Is it normal? Is it tracts to send this kind of information. The most important tract is the spinothalmic tract, which sends that sensory information to your thalamus. And then your thalamus sends that information to your cerebral cortex, this cool thing called the insular cortex. And the insular cortex is like that last final destination that processes the pain and figures out what's going on and tells you that something's hurting. Is it temperature? Is it hot? Is it stingy? Is it thuddy? And the cool thing about the insular cortex, it's also the same place that, or the same part of the brain that causes orgasm. So, which really kind of got me thinking, and unfortunately, no one has done studies as to why a heavy flogging will make you orgasm. I mean, I've always been interested by that. I mean, there, I think we've all been there, there have been times when we're flogging somebody and then they just start coming. And you're like, I didn't even, I didn't even touch you down there. You know, I'm, I'm flogging your back. I'm flogging your butt. I'm sticking needles in you. Why did that just happen? It all happens in the exact same part of the brain. And it kind of made me think maybe some kind of weird, I mean, it's all electrical, right? So maybe something just sparked in like the wrong part of the brain and it caused you to orgasm instead of feeling pain. So in a few years, when someone gives me, you know, a bunch of money to study it, that's what we're going to do. Hell yeah. Let's kickstart that shit. Right. Oh, I think it's, I mean, long have people talked about, there's this pleasure pain. Pain principle. I mean, it's just been kind of one of those, I wouldn't say common knowledge things, but just kind of an accepted reality. And a lot of people that may not necessarily say that they enjoy pain, they have very pleasurable experiences with pain during, let's say sex, you know, fisting, larger penises, anal sex. There's a lot of pain associated with those, especially for first time, you know, use. And yet it's still pleasurable enough that you want to do it again. Yeah. So it's, it's, yeah, our brain, our brain likes to fuck with us. It really does. And that's, you know, the really interesting part of the brain is that, you know, it's not all complete ABC every time, you know, things short circuit and they wire differently and everyone's wired a little bit differently. So maybe you have people whose insular cortex, you know, that part is closer to the orgasm center in that part of the brain. And maybe when the pain part gets sparked, the insular cortex part gets sparked. I mean, who knows? Right. But it's just so interesting because, you know, BDSM and sex. Sex are so integrated together, very closely together. BDSM is very sexualized and highly eroticized. And it's just so interesting that it all happens in the exact same part of the brain when there's hundreds of different parts of the brain. You know, it's just interesting that your orgasm center is not in a completely different area. That's all in the same place. I'd be curious when you get to this point of wiring people up to process it, because there are different kinds of pain and there are different kinds of pain that people associate with pleasure. People associate with that sucks. And I don't want to do that. And I'm curious. I wonder how that is processed in that part of the brain, whether it's further away from that little pleasure crossfire or what. Because like, you know, I mean, I love getting tattoos and piercings. All those are great. But this branding, it fucking sucked. Yeah. Like there was no, I didn't get, no, there's no dopamine. There was not happiness. I'm like, can this be done? And then the healing, I was like, well, this shit is lasting because I'm not going through that again. But it was just, you know, where you would think, and there's just different kinds of pain. So I'd be interested, if you have found any data or you're just, it's all kind of. Unfortunately, no, I have not found any data yet. I'm not at that point in my studies, but don't worry, we're going to be there again. And we're going to make shirts, shirts that say I come for science. So if you come and do my cool little study, you get a free t-shirt and you get to orgasm a bunch of times. Why are you not on Kickstarter right now? That's what we're going to do. Why are you not on Kickstarter right now? Coming for science. Yeah. Kickstarter.com slash. Dude, you could just sell that. A shirt to the geeks on the planet and you'd make enough fricking money. Probably. That would be fantastic. Yeah. You know, what you were saying before is I think a lot of it is situational as well. You know, even though this all happens in our brain, you know, what we talk about in neuroscience and psychology is you have your brain science, then you have your environment and your environment has a lot to do with what's going on. So say, you know, when you're getting your cell popping, I think it was for a class, right? Yeah, no, I mean, and it was done by your friend and it might not have been a sexualized situation. No, I still wouldn't have liked it. It's a good situation. No, no. Yeah. My tattoos are not sexualized either, but I enjoy it. So no, I understand the difference. But I wonder if, you know, if you were. I just didn't like it. If you were getting, say, like an inkless tattoo or something from your dom and you had some foreplay before it or something. I know, you know, that's not for you. I mean, in general. Yeah. You know, to all the other people who let people do things. Any tattoo I give to somebody would look like a tattoo from Girl with a Dragon tattoo. She did on the guy's chest. It's not going to be pretty. Ridiculous. That would be pretty funny. Would be pretty talk about, hey, I marked myself. Oops, I misspelled slave. This is why nobody or not everyone has a tattoo guy. Sorry, girl. No, that's okay. Don't worry about it. So yeah, when you have, you know, so you received your pain and your brain's processing it and you're going through the motions and everything. So then what happens next? The first thing that happens is you get that rush of endorphins and that's what everyone says. Oh, the endorphin rush. Oh, such an endorphin rush. What the fuck does that mean? Well, endorphins are a kind of opioid peptide and opioid peptides are what process pain and that's the neurotransmitter in charge of processing that pain and sending those kind of messages. And endorphins are an inhibitory neurotransmitter. So that means that when, you know, when I flog you and the pain receptors in your skin are firing and they're going off and they're saying, ouch, ouch, that hurts. Your brain releases, these endorphins to kill that pain. Endorphins are a kind of painkiller. They are the body's natural morphine. They even have a very similar chemical makeup as to morphine. And it's why morphine has worked so well with us because we naturally make a kind of morphine in our body that's exactly like, you know, the kind you'd make in a, in a lab. So the brain releases that to dull that pain. And which brings me back to something interesting is, you know, evolutionary wise and, you know, in a primal sense, we're not supposed to enjoy pain. You know, pain is, is our mind's way of telling our body, hey man, something's wrong and you need to get the fuck away from that. It's, you know, you're being attacked by a tiger or a lion or a bear or something, or you break your leg. That's your brain's way of telling you, ouch, my leg hurts. And I wonder why. And then you go get that figured out. And when you apply that kind of thinking to BDSM at first, you're kind of like, well then why does it feel good? But you know, our brain kind of messed up in evolution and made endorphins feel so damn good. That is fascinating. Pretty cool. Pretty cool, right? I mean, look at that. It really is. And you know, we're usually tied down or tied up and restrained. And, you know, of course, hopefully you've consented to receiving that pain. Right. So, you know, you're basically telling your brain. We harp on it enough. Consent is good. Do it. Please ask permission. Yes is good. No is bad. But you know, when we experience that kind of pain, our brain's first reaction is not, you know, our brain's not saying, wow, this is great. This is awesome. Our brain's saying, no, no, no, no, no. What are you doing? Stop it. I don't like this. And that's why, you know, we're not saying, well, this is great. This is awesome. This is great. And that's why, you know, a scene is very, you know, emotionally trying. It's intense. That's why you're so damn tired after because your brain just went through this process where you've completely mind fucked it. You know, your body's like, no, I want to do this. And you've made that conscious decision. And part of your brain's like, but this isn't what we're here for. Why are you doing this to me? So it's still, you know, no matter what, it still releases that whole chemical process and makes that happen. So then after you get that endorphin rush, you have this cool thing called dopamine that comes in. And when I said dopamine at the class. Everyone started cheering because everyone knows, hey, that's good. Dopamine is good, right? Dopamine is good. Dopamine is a pleasure chemical. You know, when you sit down and you have your favorite meal, you know, after Thanksgiving, you were like on a super dopamine rush. Any kind of activity you do that's pleasurable, you get this crazy cool dopamine rush and dopamine is released in response to endorphins and it makes you happy and floaty and, you know, you feel content and very satisfied. And that's kind of, you know, at first when you're playing with someone. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. 00.00. Hold on. I'm brain farting. Whatever. It's inhibitory and... That other word. Excitatory. Total brain fart. Flip seat brains. Look at that. My synapses weren't firing properly. You know, neurotransmitters weren't connecting. That happens sometimes. You make science look so good. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. Way sexier than the Mythbusters. I hope so. That was my aims. I'm like, I'm going to teach you something pretty heavy and pretty hard to understand, but hopefully I'm going to make it cool. So hopefully you'll get it. I liked it. I wish my neuroscience class was taught like this. Unfortunately, it wasn't. Right? If it was all focusing on like sex and pleasure and pain, I think people would be really, really glued to their seats. That would be super awesome. And during that portion of my neuroscience class, when we were talking about pain, oh man, I'd never paid attention in class more before in my life. And you know, I just sat there with like my laptop like, yeah, okay, okay, okay. Most of my notes came from that class. So thank you. Thank you, Dr. Rashtian. This is where it all, you know, went. Yay. I remember you. And if you're listening, holy shit, we should be friends. What's up, man? Friend around FetLife. I know her. But yeah. Okay. So dopamine is also a painkiller and, but you know, it doesn't work as well as endorphins. And after dopamine comes in, once you have reached a certain level of dopamine, every body is about different, the levels around 400,000, then prolactin comes in and prolactin sucks. It sucks. It's poopy. We don't like it, but unfortunately it's always going to happen. And prolactin, you know, if you're a mother, you might know it as the chemical that makes you start developing milk to breastfeed, but it has hundreds of different, you know, jobs in the body. And prolactin is a stress chemical and it's released in response to dopamine. It's also what makes you feel satisfied and full after a meal. That's why they always say to wait 10 minutes after your first serving. Mm-hmm. See if you want to have seconds because it takes about 10 minutes or so for the prolactin to come in and to tell your brain, no, we're full, we're good. And it's also what's responsible for the refractory period during sex. When you've, you know, you've had sex and you're done and you've both, hopefully you both have orgasmed, hopefully more than once. And, you know, you're tired and you're like, okay, yeah, I'm good. And you know what? When you're done having sex, like when you're doing, you're like, I wish this never ends and I wish it keeps going. But then when you're done, you're done. You're like, all right, get off me. Don't touch me. Go take a shower. Don't touch me. That's prolactin. That's 100% prolactin kicking in. And when people joke about why they're, it's like now, you know, it's like, shut up. Prolactin hit me. I'm ready for bed. You may have like oversaturation of that shit. Don't worry. It's all linked to science. I should. You know how women say that, oh, you know, I wanted to cuddle and like talk about love and life. And he just rolled over and fell asleep. That's because of a prolactin. And men feel it a lot quicker. Than women do. With women, it can take a few hours. It can even take a few days for them to hit it. But men feel it almost immediately. I'm such a man. Totally interesting. Yeah. Everyone's hardwired a little bit differently. Yeah. But yeah, but prolactin is also a stress chemical. So on top of feeling nice and satisfied after a little while, you start to feel depressed. Awesome. You know, and not feeling very good, you know, feelings of abandonment and disappointment and alienation. Why are you talking about my dad? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally awesome. Right. And I don't, you know, I'm not sure how that links into sex, but I don't know if anyone's ever. Oh, daddy. She's always linked into sex. Disappointment and abandon during sex. Right. What? What is wrong with you? Everything. Do I have to give you a list? We have a psych major here. We can talk about your dad if you want. No. I don't really want to. I say snarky comments about my dad. It's cool. He's dead, so it doesn't matter. Oh, God. I never think of my dad in that context. Big, scary Persian man. I'm like, sex doesn't exist to you. I just appeared out of nowhere. You guys didn't even do anything to make me even like to think about it. Yeah, that'd be great if I hadn't found my parents and individuals and together having sex. It's awesome. Oh, man. So. I'm very lucky I never had to experience that. Fantasy destroyed. Oh, gross, gross. That sucks. Yeah. So. Yeah. That's good. All right. That was a big old dump of prolactin on the story. Yeah. Yeah. Whoa. We feel lots of prolactin in this room. And cortisol, which is another stress chemical that comes down. Oh, no. Prolactin comes in. Cortisol sucks, too. But yeah, it's the prolactin and the cortisol that, you know, is how sometimes you sub drop after a scene. That's the reason why is because it's prolactin, you know, which also causes the stress hormone cortisol to come in. Doesn't make you feel very good. And it's pretty poopy. So sometimes we experience sub drop and we feel very depressed and very, you know, disappointed after a scene. And or, you know, depending on the nature of the scene. Say you. Did like a humiliation scene or any kind of degradation or, you know, I'm going to spank you, you stupid whore. And which is totally hot and everything. I love it. Yeah. But, you know, afterwards, like that prolactin kind of solidifies that feeling in you. And you're like, oh, what if I am a stupid whore? Oh, my God. In real life. Dirty slut. Yeah. It doesn't make you feel very good. We make fun. But like when you're in that moment, like it's terrible and it's written. Sometimes it's really hard to articulate. Mm hmm. What exactly is happening? Well, and I think and I can understand how from the bottom perspective, you wouldn't specifically want to articulate like, let's say, specifically using humiliation scene. You wouldn't like you wouldn't want to come to me and go, oh, my God. So that scene, I loved it and it was awesome and hot. But during my sub drop, I started thinking about all the things that you said. And I started realizing, oh, my God, they're so true. And I went on a downwards Bible because my reaction then as a top would be like, then we're not doing the scenes anymore. Mm hmm. You know, which is just because it's like, well, I need to look out for you. That's not a good thing. Right. But if if she can handle it and then get out of it just because it's that momentary, you know, cortisol, you know, prolactin kind of thing, then it's like, cool, I get it. That sucks. But you're willing to pay that price because you like all the other shit. Yeah. I mean, I love I love a good dose of humiliation play both as a top and a bottom. Yeah. Switching. Yeah. When you know, so when that dopamine leaves your body really fast and dopamine dies off really quick, doesn't have a very long shelf life and it only stays in you for maybe a couple hours tops mean depending on the activity. How long the activity is and the intensity of the activity and that prolactin comes in and starts making you feel pretty poopy. And one of the reasons why I wanted to really focus on sub drop was because, you know, unfortunately, I came from a place where my sub drop was not taken very seriously. And when I would say, oh, man, I really feel like crap. Like, you know, sometimes I feel really elated and really euphoric and happy. And then sometimes I don't feel very good. And when I would go to vocalize that, I would get met with, oh, you're just whining. You just want more. Or it's just another. And I've heard that from other people as well. Like, oh, just being a whiny bottom. It's not a whiny bottom. It happens in the brain. It's a chemical process. It totally happens. And it's real. So I think it's important to know that, especially if you're a submissive or someone who bottoms and you experience that to not feel disappointed in yourself. Because I've heard people say, oh, I'm not a good bottom because I sub dropped after. And it's like has nothing to do with, you know, your ability as a bottom has nothing to do as a top has nothing to do with your ability. As a top or, you know, how good you are at it. Drop isn't just for subs. No, it happens with tops too. We talk about drop and we don't even just talk. It's not even just about scenes. Like you can have con drop like after a really kick ass convention or weekend or what I call love drop or, you know, any of these things where you had like a really intense experience, whatever it is, all of those chemical processes, they go on and you have that drop and it sucks. We did a whole drop show. It was awesome. I mean, at least with con drop, like, I mean, we have each other. That's true. And we would be like, I remember that. That was so great. Sucks. Let's watch Moulin Rouge. It's a great segue, actually, because then the next thing I talked about was how to fight sub drop or how to prevent it. And yeah, you're right. It happens with tops too. I mean, when you think about it, all these processes happen to a top as well because it's still a strenuous physical activity that you're doing during a beating. And it's also that if you're not doing something physical, you're also getting that same rush of dopamine in. So when you get that dopamine in, it's just, you know, the prolactin is going to come in. It doesn't matter what. It is comes in after sex, comes in after eating. It comes in, you know, after your hot scene with your hot sub. It's just going to happen. But I like to focus and say that I, you know, I personally feel that a bottom might feel it more because of the pain aspect involved in it. And especially if they're doing a scene that involves a heavy amount of pain, because, yeah, you know, it takes a bit to throw that flogger and, you know, you're tired as hell after. But it probably didn't hurt as much for you, the top, as it hurt for the bottom who was getting that pain. And so they get, I, you know, and again, I don't have this completely backed up, but it just kind of makes sense in my head that they experience more pain than you do. And that pain creates more of a, you know, of a deeper process. So you get more of a rush of those kind of chemicals and everything. I don't know. I mean, I think it depends entirely on the type of scene. Of course. Because top space isn't necessarily from any sort of physical thing. I mean, that can be a component, obviously, to get endorphins from doing the physical component, but it's very mental. And so, you know, you get like an adrenaline rush. An adrenaline rush from not specifically, you know, anything physical that you're doing, but from this mental Olympics. And so the drop can be, you know, as intense depending on the kind of scene. And I've noticed this between Nancy and I, my bigger drops are not when she has her bigger drops because her bigger drops a lot of times happen with some of the physical scenes and then kind of the humiliation scenes. But like some of my laziest scenes are her favorite. And I didn't get anything. So there was no drop for me at all. So it just, you know, it just depends. Yeah. Oh, totally. I mean, everything, it depends on the context and the situation. And of course, the person, we're all hardwired a little bit differently. So, you know, whenever I say something, I mean it on a very, very general kind of scale. And yeah, top space for me, you know, as a switch, I've experienced both top space and subspace. And I mean, like the positive kind. And for me, subspace is very relaxing. I mean, I feel like I just smoked a really good bowl of indica, you know, like just really like. Hey, what's up? Yeah. I say subspace is like being, you know, high on pot and then top space is like being on coke. Yeah. No, totally. That's how I do it. I'm bouncing off the walls. I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, that was so cool. We did it. Can you believe this? And I'm totally talking so fast. Oh my God. And I can see everything so super, super clear right now. It's like the whole world from the universe. All the time. Yeah. Totally. It's two completely different things for me. And top drop is a lot more important than sub drop for me. Top drop is more just me like, fuck, I want to do that again. It's Monday. Damn it. I want it to be Friday so I can go out and stick needles in people and do more fun stuff. And then sub drop is more like really super depressing and tiring. And like, I don't even want to get out of bed. What is life? Yes. Yes. What is life? What is life? If I'm not getting the shit bean out of me, screw this. I'm done. Wow. We need to have a whole different show just on that. Because ladies, that's a, that's a big ball of psychology right there. Sunday morning. Big ball. I'm rubbing this table. Who knows what people have done on this table? Yeah. So how do we fight or combat that sub drop? And one of the things I talked about was aftercare and how important aftercare is. And I have a really big, hard dick up my ass about aftercare. I'm crazy about aftercare. When I hear someone turn around and say, I don't believe in aftercare, that I'm like, we cannot be very close friends. I mean, I still respect you as a person, but holy shit, what is wrong with you? And aftercare is a little bit different for everyone. You know, I don't have a... I don't have like a very specific, you know, thing set in my mind of what you need to do for aftercare, but there needs to be some kind of moment where you check in with people and you're kind of leveled off again. I always say that it's the time when you're both equal again for a little bit because, you know, you're, you're thanking them for giving them that experience to you and you're also making sure they're okay. And, and, you know, the really important thing is after you do some kind of humiliation scene or, you know, anything degrading and that doesn't even have to be for that specifically. A flogging can feel degrading. A spanking can definitely feel degrading. And while that's hot and sexy, you know, we have seen that that negativity does linger sometimes. So after a scene, giving them a nice hug and saying, wow, that was great. I had so much fun. You're awesome. You're amazing. Thank you for taking that. And, you know, it really makes you kind of go back to, you know, your normal state and you're like, okay, I'm not really a piece of shit. I was just a piece of shit in that hour while they were spanking me. She does like me. She doesn't hate me. Okay, good. And, you know, one of the things I talked about was the aftercare. Aftercare cuddle. And that's usually when I say aftercare, it's what most people think of is that nice cuddle session you get after. And the thing is, you know, it's not necessary. But when you cuddle with someone and you get in close proximity with anyone that you've bonded with, and I think a scene is definitely something where you bond over. And especially if you are already an established couple to begin with, that kind of physical closeness gives you a rush of oxytocin. And oxytocin is this great chemical that completely combats the negative effects of prolactin. So while you have that prolactin that's running high, when you go in for that cuddle, and you know, that nice little schmoozy, like, you're awesome, and I love you, and nice pat on the head, and that oxytocin starts to come up and goes, hey, fuck you, prolactin, get out of here. It's my turn. I think there's definitely something to be said for that tactile thing. I mean, it's, you know, you know the person, I mean, I know you love me, even when we fight. I still know that you love me. Like, I don't stop loving you. Loving you. Sorry. And, you know, you're never too far away from me, but, you know, I can have all of that, but if there's no physical contact, like, that's like a big deal. There's something to be said about just that touch. And, like, I know, like, we've had this, like, long conversations about this, because, like, we're both on totally different ends of the spectrum when it comes to, like, being physically affectionate. And that happens a lot. That does happen. I'm actually a crazy affectionate person most of the time with, you know, but it's just that, mm. Okay, that's cool. Right. No, no, no. I understand. Your space, my space. I can be like that, too, especially after a scene. I kind of want to run out there and be like, hey, guys, look what I just did. You know, aftercare is a fucking bitch for the top. It is. Because we're flying. We're in Cokeville. Yeah. We're like, oh, my God, I just want to talk to everybody. I want to have a cigarette. Oh, my God, I have another, you know, a monster. Yeah. And then you're like, I'll totally cuddle you for an hour and lose all of this. It sucks. It really does. It robs the soul. It robs the soul. It robs the top. Because that's when shit gets good for the top, and we lose it all. It just evaporates. And it's like, it's cool. It is what it is. But it's gone. It's true. That's why when tops go, I outsource my aftercare. I'm like, fuck, man. That's kind of awesome. Yeah. When you delegate aftercare to somebody else. It's like, yeah, then you can go run around and do your toppy shit. My aftercare. What exactly is running around and doing your toppy shit? Running around and showing off what you just did. I just say, you know, you're going out. You can have a cigarette. Oh, my God. You're the best scene. Talk about your scene. And then have another cigarette. And then, I don't know, change the whole pack. Doing everything. And then get like a six pack of monsters and drink all of them. Maybe snort the monster. Maybe inject it. Give yourself a monster enema. All of these things can happen. But they can't while you're giving aftercare. Do you understand what I'm saying? That's why it's important to find a good bottom that kind of, you know, fits into your mold of aftercare. You know, we know people, their aftercare is a hug and they want to go have a cigarette. I don't love you, Sanger. I know. We love you so much. And your insular cortex. Right? All the time. Totally awesome. Totally. Yeah. But, you know, sometimes you have your, you know, always make sure to do your negotiations before seeing, hey, what kind of aftercare do you like? Yeah. And if they turn around, they say, I want a good cuddle. You're going to commit to playing with that person. You need to know that they need that good cuddle after. And either you give it to them or at least find somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't trust to give it to them. You know, don't do a scene with that person after you've had your negotiations and not give them what they what they asked for. Because when you when they say I need a cuddle and you say, OK, and then you start your scene, you're basically saying I will give you that cuddle when we're done. Well, and one of the things that we've discussed is and I mean, this is kind of like a relatively new thing where, you know, she wants me to start packing like an aftercare kit, something for myself where I have the things that I need so that she can go and smoke that whole fucking pack and like talk to everybody and do all of the things no no no no not the same but I already I made you a drop box right I did but but but it supplements you know the cuddle that you give me and no I'm not saying that it replaces that no no no no but you you do your due diligence so to speak and then if for whatever reason I need more for me then I have my aftercare kit I have those things to kind of help out so that the burden is not entirely on her and the burden is shared yeah she um she likes if she could have like an hour of aftercare for every 20 minutes of play she would be the happiest sub on the planet I will tell you flat out that's not gonna I think everybody does yeah yeah at the end of the day we only have so much time I mean for me I love aftercare but after about 15 20 minutes I'm kind of done you know I'm looking at the clock and I'm like and I'm like so you ready to get up and want to go outside I'll stay close with that person for the rest of the night you know I'll go up to them and give them a nice head rub what's going on here I do not want an hour yes you do when have I ever wanted an hour I swear to god I've had to like rip you off my leg like velcro before only because we're in a room and somebody's waiting for the play space no no no no no no I'm talking if there was the infinite um! amounts of time and location you would be stuck to my leg like a child on a parent's leg with them walking around that would be you I'm the same way all the time me too man I never I never like that like a separation you're humping my leg that's what you do so without the humping because then you get your ass smacked that's a true statement you know it's true and you just don't like it not an hour not an hour no way I'm gonna put some science behind this shit then put some science yes oxygen shut your fucking shit up oxytocin's awesome and cuddling gives you that oxytocin and you know what you were saying before how you have an aftercare kit or a drop kit that you know that brings me to a very important point is aftercare what I like to think is half the dom's responsibility and half your responsibility it's your responsibility to state what you want it's your responsibility after they've stated what you want if you have agreed to give them what they want to give them what they want but at the end of the day we all have our own lives you know I can't me my my you know spaciness lasts for a few days I can't have that dom stuck to me for a few days after that at one point I gotta say okay thanks that was great and then go on my merry way even when I was collared and I had a dom and everything you know he lived you know here in downtown LA I lived in the valley and we didn't live together and you know I had to find my own way of making myself feel better which I have a bunch of tips on how to help with sub drop and everything when you're on your own time and the most important thing you can do I feel that really helps is you know even though you're not physically close together anymore any kind of contact will still kind of give you some oxytocin and still make you happy so you know a nice phone call or maybe a couple text messages throughout the day I mean it's different for everyone for me I like to just shoot my bottom a message the next day and say hey how are you how are you doing how are you doing even if it wasn't that intensive of a scene I've made that mistake where I'm like I wasn't that big of a deal they're okay and then lo and behold two days later I find out they were dropping like crazy because you never know what's going on in that person's brain and sometimes we don't even know what's going on in our own brain and you know sometimes we drop and we're like what the hell is going on why what why is this happening and it has a lot to do with a lot of different factors you know with your diet with you know the vitamin intake you've taken how much sleep you're getting just you know your stress level and everything so contact is very important eating well is very very important if you know you're going to do a good scene that night you need to eat something really well that has a lot of complex carbs so whole grain whole grain pasta brown rice you want to think of like anything white is not good and this is good in terms of diet in general but you know you want to have like a night maybe like a nice sandwich with some meat in it it's like meats and cheeses fruits and vegetables that kind of thing and you know one of the things that I would always joke about after I was subspacing was I wanted to eat donuts I swear to god I acted like a high kid with munchies I'm like I want donuts and cheetos and mcdonald's and I would go out and I would eat those things that's the worst thing that you can eat when you're spacing out and you're like oh my god I'm going to even though it's the only thing you want you want your shitty onion rings and stuff but yeah it's the worst thing you can eat box munchie box totally yeah no awesome taco bell at three in the morning on Saturdays after our sinister they knew me very well like oh hey so you want the sub drop special right yeah here we go I wish I could actually call it that yeah those simple carbs that come from the white foods the white bread and stuff they burn through your body really quick processed food as well but complex food that's you know rich and you know you're not going to be able to eat a lot of that rich and hearty and stuff that takes a longer time for your body to process so you feel more energized and you want to eat that the next day too vitamins are also really important v vitamins b vitamins are important there's been a lot of studies that have linked b vitamins to depression rates vitamin d is important drinking a nice glass of milk going out in the sun journaling is also really great you know writing about your experiences and your thoughts if you have a cool dom you know you can send those off to your dom because we love knowing what makes our submissives tick and reading about exactly what's going on in their head at least I do because I'm a freak for the brain getting some exercise going out going for a jog that gets the endorphins rushing again um running away from non-running away as fast as you can somebody said they were going to go for a run and I was like are there animals chasing yeah I don't have much that one doesn't apply to me very well but it does there's a lot of people that are really into that and they're like yeah I'd go for a good kickboxing class etc any of those things yeah I think it's a combination of things whatever kind of makes you feel normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but normal but or the top. So yeah, and communication is very key. If you're dropping, you know, you need to tell your dom that you don't keep it a secret. Like I said, it doesn't make you a bad bottom or make your top a bad top. If you have the time kind of top that's going to get mad that you sub dropped, don't play with that person anymore. Because that's just not cool. I mean, you're not really in control of it. It's not you whining or being greedy or anything. It just happens sometimes. And you know, shooting them a good message like, hey, I'm kind of dropping. Who knows, maybe they have their own cool little techniques for making you feel better. Maybe they'll be really awesome and take you out for a coffee. Maybe who knows. Maybe, I mean, you don't know, just but just getting that out there and letting know that the person who caused this of what's going on, then, you know, that's something that's really important is to kind of, you know, just talk about it. And meditation, meditation is really good. And getting a good night of sleep, but not too much sleep. Because when you're lying in bed and wallowing all day, that just makes you feel poopy. I mean, I know, you know, we don't, we don't want to get out of bed on Sunday morning after a good beating and what is life. But at some point, you got to get out of bed. At some point, you got to go to the Dom Scouts. Yep. Go hang out with your friends, you know, being active in social is also really important. I love hanging out with my friends after a good beating and letting them know because they're all kind of vanilla, or like, French vanilla, you know, a little bit of spice in it, but not completely vanilla. They're sprinkles. I come over and I just strip down and I just show them all my bruises. And they're like, whoa, my God, what happened? This was made by this. And this was made by that. And look at my nipples. It's so good. And look at this. And look at that. And my God, he did this to me. And I came seven times. And oh my God, you know, people love hearing about that. And it makes, you know, and it makes you super excited and stuff. So yeah, you know, that's basically all I came up with in terms of neuroscience. I mean, those are super, super basics. There's one thing that I want to talk about. You had like a rhythm. Oh, the rhythm technique. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, very quickly, the rhythm technique. So thank you. It's not birth control, people. No. Open your ears now for something fantastic. I called it the 10 minute or I think the 10 minute rhythm. And endorphins, they come in rushes in about every 10 minutes or so. It could be nine or 11 minutes, but it's usually around 10 minutes. And so a good thing to do is when you start doing a scene is it takes a couple minutes for endorphins to come in initially. So when you start doing your scene, take a couple minutes for your warm up and do some touching, some scratching, some light hair pulling. Keep it really light, though. You know, it's literally just a warm up, maybe some light, you know, smacking, you know, using a really light flogger on them. Keep that going for a couple minutes, which is also a good idea to do in general. I mean, it's really fun to just get in there and start beating. But, you know, when you do a run, you usually do some kind of warm up, same kind of mentality here. And after a couple minutes or so, they're going to have that first endorphin rush coming in. And then you can start laying down the heavy smacks and stuff and, you know, do whatever you want. You're flogging, you're spanking, paddling, caning, whatever it is that's in your awesome toy bag and just unleash it. And about every 10 minutes or so, you're going to want to take a couple minutes of a break. And so every couple minutes or every 10 minutes for a couple minutes, stop for a little bit. You know, it's a good time to check in with them. Hey, how are you doing? And, you know, start doing do like the light touching and the light cresting again. It's a good chance to use nice sensory toys as well. And after a couple minutes or so, that second endorphin rush is going to kick in. And then you're going to want to take a couple minutes of a break. And then you can start going at it again. And what you want to do is every 10 minutes or so, stop for a couple of minutes. And when you restart again, that next rush of endorphins comes in and their pain tolerance will get higher at every single rush. And they'll be able to take a lot more. And it's a good way to make your scenes last a lot longer because rather than going on that first initial adrenaline rush, which is going to die out after a little bit, you know, it's like clockwork, the adrenaline, or I'm sorry, the endorphins and the dopamine, the prolactin comes in. But when you kind of fuck with the brain and take those couple minutes of a break and, you know, kind of time when that next rush is going to come in, if you keep going, then you can make your bottom last a lot longer and they can take a lot more pain. So if you have a really heavy kind of toy to use, it's best to use that towards the end when they're on their third or fourth or hopefully your fifth endorphin rush. And they'll probably be able to take it a lot more than if they were, if you were to use it in the very beginning. And, you know, I have a lot of people, or I've heard a lot of people say, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I've heard a lot of people saying, well, how can I last longer? How can I make my scenes last longer? How can I, how can I raise my pain tolerance? It's something a lot of bottoms are interested in. How do I raise my pain tolerance? This is a good way to do it is to take that couple minutes every 10 minutes. So two minutes every 10 minutes, take a break and then restart again. Which I've been thinking about. I'm sorry, go on. I said, I was going to say, I think like that kind of that method, it's beautiful. And for someone that's sadistic, that, you know, wants to delve into that. I mean, I think that that's a fantastic way to get the levels evened out so that you can let out that sadistic side. Eventually. Eventually. So I was thinking about this. I was thinking, because I remember when you said it in the class and I thought, you have a fucking timer. Well, I would start a little egg timer. Ding. Hey, how's it going? Yeah. Did you get the coffee? It was really good. Yeah. Last time you got the Sumatra. Don't get that shit. And that just seems like bad. And then ding, let's go, you know. But. For places like, let's say threshold specifically, where they have individual iPod docs in each of their rooms, you can make a playlist. Yeah. Playlists are awesome. That you have timed out perfectly where, you know, OK, I've got Mozart for my intro and then I'm going to go into some, you know, some random mashup mix remix. And then and then 10 minutes later, I'm going to have some Beethoven. So, you know, when it's going to happen, you can check in and whatever it is. I haven't done this yet, but it's going to happen. I got to do this. I found that I've already naturally kind of did it. I mean, when I had read about everything and because, you know, I didn't read somewhere that said this is how you play with your bottom using endorphins. And from my own studies and reading about how endorphins come in rushes of every 10 minutes or so and how it takes a couple of minutes between each 10 minute break, I was kind of like, huh, maybe this will work. And I started using it and trying it out more at threshold when, you know, I had a good hour, hour and a half of time allotted to me. I used to work at Bar Sinister and our scenes were very short. I was like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to like 15, 20 minutes long and I could never use it. And then I started doing this with my bottoms and I noticed that they would last a long time. And it was great for me, too, because I get tired after a little bit, you know, so taking that couple minutes between everything lets me recoup a little bit and then I can pick up the flogger and keep going because I can't flog for 20 minutes straight. I just can't. But I can flog for, you know, seven, eight minutes and then take a two minute break and then flog for another, you know, 10 minutes or so and then get more flogging out of that. Yeah. I mean, I don't I think for me, I mean, the way that I've always played is I've always kind of gone, you know, up and then down and up and then down and then up. And I think because that helps them last longer. I didn't have a scientific timer behind it. I've never done that. But I mean, I know people that play and they go up and that's all they do. And they're very, very heavy status. And the bottoms play with them as a badge of honor or, you know, to say, look, I, you know, I bottomed. To this massive status and I could handle it for X number of minutes. But, you know, then the scene ends and then you're like, well, I want more. Give me some more. And it's there's no more to be had. Yeah. And having all those different endorphin rushes with the dopamine, then the prolactin coming in when you're when you're finally done, that prolactin that comes in is going to be a lot more of a higher rate than normal. And it's going to make you feel more more satisfied than usual. And but another thing is, if you're going to use this kind of method, you're going to have to do a lot more of a higher rate than normal. Your bottom is probably going to be a lot more tired, a lot more spacey than they normally would. So aftercare is very important if you're going to use this kind of technique, because when you're done after doing this, they're going to be done. I mean, so bring a wheelchair is what you're saying. Or a wheelbarrow. Wheel them out to the smoking section and papshush them while I smoke. Which is going to look awesome. I mean, can you imagine sitting there and someone rolls you out on a wheelchair and you're like, holy shit, what did they do to her? Oh, my God. And I'm just smoking. No worries. You can pull some Weekend at Barney's or Bernie's and watch too much time at your mother. That's a different weekend. All my questions I had earlier are gone. I'm sorry. One of the questions that I was going to ask earlier is, so you mentioned about how people always walk out and they say, oh, I got such an endorsement. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. What they're describing at that time, are they describing that accurately? Or what are they actually talking about? No, they're right. They are right. There is a big rush of endorphins that come in. And primarily when you're playing, you know, that prolactin, that dopamine kind of comes in towards the end when the endorphins start, you know, trailing off. And then the dopamine comes in in response to that. So when they say, oh, I've had such an endorphin rush, it's totally accurate. It's the same kind of rush that you get when you go skydiving or, you know, whatever crazy, you know, adrenaline junkie activity you want to do. I think BDSM kind of falls into that same category as well. Except we're not jumping out of planes. We're just getting the shit being out of us. Which is fine. No, I think it's something that always seems like a dance is actually very calculated. It is. Yeah. Your brain pretty much knows exactly what it's doing. And... Yeah. What's really amazing is after you've learned this information and you go and you play after, and now you know all this stuff and you're like, holy shit, I'm watching science happen. I'm such a nerd. That's how I am. And, you know, I was playing with somebody after my class at Femme Fatale and they came and I like turned around to the people who are watching. I'm like, and that, my friends, was the insular cortex in action. And it starts cracking again. I'm like, well, I'm being serious. I was actually really excited by that. I'm a huge nerd. What can I say? Yeah. It's usually, it's endorphins. And a lot of people were asking me about serotonin. What about serotonin? I mean, in my research, I didn't find too much about serotonin. It seems like serotonin is more of a mood stabilizing kind of thing, whereas it's mostly dopamine that comes in. Yeah. Serotonin works with tryptophan. Yeah. Which is not necessarily the same chemicals as that. Yep. Yep. So, I guess... Do you know... Do you know anything about, like, when people are making these differentiations between good and bad pain? Mm-hmm. Because the bad pain seems like more of kind of the evolutionary, hey, pain bad, go away. Like, fire, hot, no touch. Mm-hmm. Versus somebody who goes, fire, hot, ooh, feels good. Any... If there's been brain scans, any differences in the person's insular cortex, depending on who has or does not have that, you know, inhibitory thing towards pain, as opposed to, you know, desirous things. Right. That's the way towards it. Unfortunately, you know, there hasn't been a lot of actual scientific research in terms of BDSM and the process that happens in BDSM. I mean, all my research was taken from pain studies in which they would, you know, focus a laser on a certain kind of your body and elicit some kind of pain reaction and see what part of the brain lights up. I think it's very important. I think it would be really awesome if we had those kind of studies and could see how that would happen. But from a guess, I mean, again, how your pain center and your pleasure center... I mean, because the insular cortex is what makes you orgasm, but it's the nucleus accumbens in the brain that's responsible for releasing dopamine. So the part of your brain that releases dopamine is a different part than the insular cortex where we process pain, but they are very close together. And it is the insular cortex that does cause orgasm. So they're all kind of linked together. And I have a feeling that them being just in close proximity to each other might have something to do with that. And it also might have to do with, you know, type of person that they are. And if they've just learned to process pain differently, and everyone processes pain a little differently. For me, when I'm... I don't orgasm from pain, unfortunately. My life would be a lot better if I did. I hate pain. I hate it. I mean, when I'm in a scene and I'm, you know, I hate paddles. Hate them. I hate canes. Don't like it. But I will let you do it. You know, my thing is, oh, my dom wants to cane me and paddle me. So I'm going to let him. And I have enjoyment from my dom having fun, torturing me. That's what I'm going to let him do. That's what I get out of it. But I play to get to that subspace. And whatever gets me to that subspace, man, I don't care whatever you do to me. People are like, oh, what are you into? I'm like, I don't know. I don't care. Just make me space out. Honestly, I really don't care. I hate paddles. I hate canes. But if you want to do them, shit, go for it. I'm fine with that. So, you know, for me, when I'm in pain, all I'm thinking is, when the fuck is this going to be over? Oh, my God. This hurts. Please don't hit me again with that thing. Oh, God. He hit me with it again. This sucks balls. I hate it. Fuck this shit. You know, and then it's done. And I'm like, oh, all right. Dopamine. We're good. Okay. We can do it again. You know what? We're just about out of time. Where can people go to reach you or to find out more information? What you got for us? What kind of resources you got? I'm on FetLife. And my FetLife handle is Lady Shiva. It's one word. And Shiva is spelled S-H-E-E-V-A, spelled a little differently than the normal Shiva. And I'm actually in the process. It hasn't been up yet, but I'm in the process of putting up all my notes for my research. All my notes right now are written weird Shiva language that nobody can understand. So I could read them quickly. And instead of having 40 pages of notes, I have like 15 pages of notes because it's all in that language. So in a couple of days or so, I'm going to have that up and I'm going to put up references. Although most of what I've learned was from that neurology class. And but, you know, I'll reference what I can. And I do have a huge binder from that class. If anybody wants me to bring it out and they can look at it, it's yours, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. That's the best way to get to me. And then you're on Twitter at Lady Shiva as well. Yeah. On Lady Shiva as well. So if you guys want to do that, FetLife in the Twitter, which is awesome. Hit me up. Yeah. I'm always down for talking about stuff. She is. She really is. And you can find us. The show is at Kink Electual on the Twitter. I am at Insidious Muse. I'm at Service Slut. And we're there every place else too, like FetLife. But, you know, you can Fet me if you want, but it's going to be pointless. She's not going to respond. She won't respond to you. I have 35 Fet messages. And I apologize to all of you. All of you. I just, you know, hey, there you go. I got messages. It is what it is. Review us on iTunes. Please do. Share us with all of your friends. And you review us on Stitcher as well, please. Yes. Let's not forget Stitcher. Yes. And more importantly, share us with all of your friends because being kinky is good and we are very kink positive and sex positive on Intellectual. That's awesome. Kink. And we might have a guest next week because Nancy may not be here. We don't know yet. What? We have to figure it out. Oh, that. Yeah. Okay. We'll figure it out. Anyway, have a good one. Good night. Thank you.