Switch responsibilities and communication strategies

Wow. What are you wowing about? Our guests are awesome. Are awesome. Yes. I even let one of them totally manhandle me. Not even woman handle me. Manhandle me. Who manhandled you? He did. I totally manhandled her. You were there. Oh, that was then. I thought it was today. I was like, what did manhandling happen today? And I missed it. I mean, this is something I hold very dear to my heart. And I don't think I told you, but I was telling her probably a day or two afterwards. That meant a lot to me. That's true. She doesn't let people touch her generally. I don't let it. And men especially. Not like that. Aw. Ever. I mean, I didn't run my, I didn't rub my thingy near your thingy. Like I specifically try. I've listened enough to the podcast to understand that you have an aversion to thingies. You can actually say the word. So I attempted to leave my thing. No, I prefer to be a child. A child who can't say the word penis. But he says thingy. He's a penis. Shh. What? And so I purposely kept my thingy away from your thingy. Aw. Aw. Just to make it more comfortable for you. Also, that's not really a thing that comes out. My thingy or her thingy? Yeah. No. When you're just demonstrating, it's not like, and here's my penis. Bam. I don't know. I know some guys that it absolutely does come out. Right. And he's not that guy. That's my point. Yes. Which was clearly illustrated. Right. Yeah. So tonight's episode's on why I'm doing it wrong. Tonight's episode. No, no, no. On why he's doing it right. How he doesn't bring his penis out. And everything. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody wants to touch it. Oh. Oh, but doesn't. Does anyone want to touch it? Don't they? Yes. I think if it came out, everyone would want to touch it. I agree. So is that where we're going? I mean, certainly, I want to watch someone. Flop it out right on the table. You want to watch other people touch his penis? Yes. I'm totally down with that. What if I gave you one of those little, like, gun-operated claws that you can reach from across? You can just stroke it. Yeah, one of the things that was just like, yack, yack, yack. From a distance. And you could just reach over. You know, she has that really neat violet wand. That's the one that Bondi got at the antique store. Whoa. I know. I know. Would she? You can stroke with violet wand? You can stroke with violet. Nothing says love like electricity. No. I believe I texted this to you earlier, but don't threaten me. I'm going to threaten you. I'm going to fucking threaten you hard, bitch. And I'm going to watch her threaten you. Threaten me in my dirty, dirty hole. In your dirty, dirty hole. In your dirty hole, beg for more. Whoa. Wow. Wow. That was dirty. That was dirty. This is why we love these people. I guess we should introduce ourselves. Hey, there's a thought. So first off, welcome to Intellectual Kink. Welcome. I'm Insidious Muse. And I'm Service Slut. And then we have guests. Yay. Would you like to introduce yourselves? I am Melissa, a.k.a. Good Most Times on FetLife. She is Good Most Times. And I'm Charlie Frown, a.k.a. Andrew, long-time listener, third time. Attendant. And a guest. Visitor. Visitor. Visitor. Visitor. Guest. I can't get enough of myself. And oddly enough, he is here not to talk about rope. What? Shock it is. Like, he's the rope guy. I do other things. Okay. No. And have other things. I know. He pulled out his, like, his whole toy, not his whole toy bag, but, like, all of these restraints and stuff when he went over to his place. Like, all over the living room floor was all this stuff. That we never used. We had ball gags. Hey, whoa. Hey. And these neat blindfolds. And, like, all this stuff. And, like, all this stuff. And, like, all this stuff. And he's like, this is the best. He never used. And then you never use them? Never used. That's so fucking sad. Well, I have two suitcases full of shit. I don't use all of that. But it's really, like, you have the toy for the partner. Right. So, of the things that I have, what are you like? Like, hey, like, this is the thing that I want to use that we haven't used. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, okay. So. No, I'm just saying we never use those. So, it was like show and tell because I never get to use this stuff. Because maybe if somebody were a little open-minded. I'm not a post. I'm not a post. We just don't. So, a few weeks. Shit just got real, y'all. Shit just got real. A few weeks ago, we had two episodes back-to-back. One was responsibilities of a submissive. And the other one was responsibilities of a dominant. And so, we had those shows. And then Andrew was like, what the fuck? When's your episode on responsibilities of the Switch? And we were like, Switches have responsibilities? Right. And then I was like, fine, whenever you're going to come on and do it. And he's like, he was half-joking. I'm like, come on. I'm going to do it. So, he's here to do it. The responsibilities of a Switch are to do whatever the fuck, whenever the fuck. See, that doesn't matter for me. Yeah, that's not true. It's not true, though. I reject this. That's the thing. We had been talking about it. And so, your episodes were helpful because it was like, oh, well, that of submissive and that of dominant, both. But it's almost like we have to figure out four things. What do we expect as a show? A dominant and from the submissive and then as a submissive and from a dominant. So, we have double the responsibilities. You have to figure that out for each individual person. So, like, for the two of us, it's like, okay, so, if I'm a dominant and you're a submissive, like, here's what, like, my D-type equals to me. Here's, like, how I like to exhibit myself as a dominant. And then she's like, okay, here's how I like to exhibit myself as a submissive. And then we have to sort of come to the common ground on those two things. And then the opposite. So, for the other way. Most people don't have switch-switch relationships, though, do they? I don't know. It seems like not, at least from listening to, like, say, for Great Answers podcast I listen to. And it seemed like a lot of the people on there, they were saying that they have partners for whom they are only submissive. And then they will top other people. Yeah. So, they don't have that dynamic where they have to figure out. Yeah. That's generally what the switch people that I know, they generally are either, they have still, it's still a very kind of D-S relationship with individual people. They just have more relationships. I mean, you two, I mean, obviously, you're both poly, but you could ostensibly get what you needed from each other in your switchy roles because you're both switches. Sure. But I think it's really interesting in the sense from Melissa and I's standpoint. That I think I have inherently a ton more experiences at home and a ton more experiences at home. And she has probably a ton more experience as, I mean. I have zero experience. To the limited experience that she has, the bulk of the experience that she has, has been as a bottom. Yes. So, it's weird in the sense that we both associate as switches, but we're both sort of testing out those opposite sides. Like, I've been a switch who is consistently sort of. I've been in relationships with people who have been a bottom. Melissa is a switch who has sort of really kind of recently come to the kink lifestyle. Yes. And is recently sort of exploring that side of her and has most typically fallen into the role as a submissive or a bottom. It's easier. Shh. Lazy. Probably. Being a dominant is hard. What the fuck? Now I am seeing what's up with the seating arrangement. Us. Us. Us. This is you. It takes a lot more planning. They can actually jump back and forth. Yeah. For both sides. Yeah. I can walk over to the other side and talk and then I can walk back. In my experience. It's the best of both worlds. It takes a lot more planning to be dominant. And then you have so much shit to clean up after. You're just like, oh my god. No, you just have the submissive. Yeah. Yeah, that didn't happen. If they're subspaced out. That didn't happen. If they're subspaced out, I'm not going to wait for them to be ready so that we can clear out if we're at a dungeon or something. Right. Right. Right. It's like, I can clean it. I'm not that much of a diva. Well, it's funny because I think that she takes like her protocol as a dom in some ways for me. And for me, it's like I need to do the cleanup because that's like the cleanup for me is aftercare. Like I've had a bunch of bottoms and specifically rope bottoms that are like, oh, do you want me to help you coil ropes or do this or that or the other? And I'm just like, no, like I need to do that to take me out of the space of where I was back to being normal, functional human. Plus, I want it done the way I want it. And you don't know how I want it. Right. And even though you know how I want it, you still don't know how I want it. It's not going to be right. Yeah. There's that. I can appreciate. Everybody has their thing about the way they want the rope done. I get that. Yeah. But it's for me, it's like sort of this weird aftercare thing where I need to kind of like take care of myself. And part of that is putting everything back to where it started from before we started the scene. My aftercare requires, you know, me to sit down and have a cigarette. There's that. That's my aftercare. As a non-smoker, I don't. I don't have that, but I can understand that as like a ritual. Totally. What? No, I'm just taking it all in. I'm still on the fact that you guys are all over there. Do you want me to get up? I'll get up and walk over there. Somebody will come join us. No, it's okay. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. No, it's happening. Oh, my God. No. It's done. And he's within touching range. His penis is also very close, too. But I have germs. Oh, are you sick? Yeah. Oh, no. That's bad. You'll be fine. He'll be fine. And that happened. Can you light your hand? That is awesome. Penis. It came at me in three dimensions. I was very scared of it for a moment there. It was awesome. I was terrified. Oof. Do you feel better now? Yeah. Yes. Now he's going to pet you. She doesn't want the weirdo on her side. And I'm the weirdo. Yeah. You know, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it. Ain't that the truth. So what do you... You get, Nancy, that you really do just bring out everybody's D-like tendencies. Like, everybody around you is like, look, it's like, you know... I can do that. I can mess with the ants. Do that. I can make her painfully uncomfortable. And it's so fun. You would do that for anybody. It's... There's this weird... There's this weird thing my D-type really wants the S-type to be, like, uncomfortable. And not necessarily uncomfortable in the way that they want to be uncomfortable, but uncomfortable in the way that I want to make them uncomfortable. It's really weird. Like, it's really, like... Not weird. Like... It's not weird. No, no. That makes total sense. Like, you don't want to give them the thing they want. Thank you. But it's not like a... Otherwise, it's expected. But it's not like a... You're totally... But it's not like a painful thing. It's like an... Uncomfortable thing. Yeah. Like, I want them to be mildly unsettled a lot of the time. I agree. And I think there's actually a psychology to that because it keeps them a bit off kilter, which gives them an inability to predict your next move. Sure. Which makes it so that they're automatically a little bit kind of more submissive because then they're always playing catch up, which is fantastic. It's funny because it's like the thing that I think that Melissa and I talk about that a lot of the D-types to S-types don't talk about is just as switches is like, we'll have conversations where she'll ask me about, okay, like, how do you think about this? How do you figure out how you want to set up a scene? Like, what is... Like, just in sort of a general, like, overview strategy, how do you put things together? And we have those conversations, which is really interesting. And one of the things that has kind of come up for me more often than not is I kind of want it to be like a rollercoaster ride. But I want it to be a rollercoaster ride that suddenly goes in a direction that you don't expect it to go. Yeah. Like, you slowly build towards an expectation of this is the next thing that's going to happen. But then when that thing doesn't happen, it sort of subverts your expectations. Kind of like... In a lot of ways. To me, that's a good scene. Now, do you two feel that when you... Do you share after, like, scenes how it felt from both perspectives, from both the top and the bottom perspective, and what, you know, went into the scene and how you came out of it? Do you guys share, like, all of that? We just... I mean, we've only just recently been having a lot of these conversations. And one of the things we agreed on is that we would wait for a day or two before we discussed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did we like, what did we think could have gone better? What, like what we would have maybe enjoyed more out of the scene? Which you totally broke at dinner. I did, but. She totally broke it at dinner by giving me feedback on a scene that we had today. I did. Already. Already. I did. But I felt like that was a minimal, like minimal feedback. Come see, come saw. You didn't break my heart. It wasn't a huge, it wasn't a huge thing. But she had it processed already. I know, she totally had it. Like, like she had the very, and it wasn't, it wasn't nonspecific feedback. It was very specific. Like, oh, hey, this was a thing that I did for this reason. And I really wish you'd have kind of done this thing. And I was like, oh, okay. And my feedback is, if this was a thing that you did for this reason, it would have been nice to know that you did that thing for that reason. Right. Which is something else that we've been working on. Like, if you want more of something, say you want more of that thing. Yeah. And it's been an interesting conversation in the course of, I don't know. We're interacting because, I mean, I think for me, at least the, the scenes that we have in the scenes that I have with my partners are sort of inherently geared towards sex. Like it's not, I, it's not like a, and it's probably why I don't play more often in public places is because like, for me, the end of playing is orgasm. Like that's, that's, that's where I'm going. That's where I'm aiming for. That's what I want. And it becomes difficult in public places to necessarily do that. So. For us, it's been more of a like, okay, I need that feel. I need feedback real time. Like I need for us to talk real time as we're doing the scene. I need you to talk to me like, and tell me, okay, this thing, but not this thing. And this thing, this thing. And that's not going to totally break my heart. There are some times that I'm going to respond with. And I think one of the things that we've talked about is pretty in depth is intent in the sense of like her feedback of like, hey, this hurts. And my response to be, my intent is to hurt you. It's going to continue to happen. Like, get ready for it. Like it's, but it's, it's a different. That's not always my goal. No, that's not always. Something that I need to know that he's doing that on purpose. Yeah. Like that's not always my goal. That's not always her goal. So in a lot of instances, it's really important that I express like, because if the goal is for like, if the end goal is for both of us to have sex and both of us to have a great time and like her to have an orgasm or multiple orgasms and me to have an orgasm or multiple orgasms, like in order to get there, it's going to take. some pre-prescribed things, both on my side and her side. And in a lot of instances for her side or for my side, those aren't necessarily oriented around stuff like pain or they aren't necessarily oriented around certain types of play. But that doesn't mean that as a top or if I'm as a top or if she's functioning as the top, that there are things that we don't wanna explore as a top that won't necessarily get our partner closer to that state. So in those instances, it's sometimes really important to go like, no, no, no, my intent isn't to get you off with this. My intent is to do this thing and I'm doing this thing for me. So to that point, when you're in your D type role or your S type role, would you say that one of the responsibilities is to commit and be fully present in that role without bleeding over into the other role at any point? Yes. Yeah, no, I think the goal is to be fully committed to. Like this is the thing that I'm doing. Right. Like if you're in the D type role, it's I'm gonna take them on the ride. And if you're in the S type role, it's like I've sat down in this roller coaster, the lap bars come down and I'm gonna go on this ride and that's the ride. Like I'm already there. I've waited in line. It's time to go. Is that difficult? For me, no. No. Okay. It hasn't ever, I think for me, it really hasn't, hasn't been because as a D type, I've primarily functioned as the D type. So it's a lot easier for me to go into that and that headspace and figure out how that works. And the weird thing is, I think that for both of us, I don't know, and I'll certainly let Melissa speak for herself. When I'm in a submissive role, it's been such a rarity. I mean, I've been involved in kink in one way or another for almost probably over 10 years now. And very little of that has been as a, as a submissive. So the opportunities that I have to do that are, because they're so rare, I am in no way critical when they happen. I am just very much like, Ooh, this is a thing that's happening. It's such a rare event that like, I'm going to let it just, I'm going to let it happen. I'm going to let it wash over me and I'm going to enjoy it. And at some point, like I think Melissa is at a place where she needs a lot of ways to figure out how she wants to function in her D type. And I think that's, I think that's a key to her D type. So I'm more than happy to let her explore. And in exploring, there are going to be some things that she would necessarily not do again. And that I would not necessarily have her do again. But I want to, I want to give her that room for exploration and to figure out, oh, this is how this works for me. And with a limited amount of exposure that I've had as an S type, like I'm, I'm happy to have her do that just to have that kind of interaction at all. If that makes sense. No, it does. So you don't find yourself deconstructing? I do on occasion, but it's, I mean, I deconstruct everything, man. Like I'm a person who believes that humans as a whole are mentally geared to judge, they are mentally geared to dissect and judge everything. Like that's what we're good at. That's how, that's why we haven't been killed. That's why the species is continued to thrive. That said, I know that there's a certain level of criticism that, you know, that's why we haven't been killed. That said, I know that there's a certain level of criticism that, that isn't going to help her. Like it just isn't going to help her. Like she's going to learn on her own. And I want her to be a separate entity. Like, like, like I want her to own her D type. I want it to be an organic growth that comes out of her. I don't want it to be completely colored by me because in sort of being polyamorous, like if I kind of give her feedback to gear, her D type to what I want, that's not necessarily going to work for whoever else she wants to meet. It's not necessarily going to make her happy. Like I want her to figure out how her D type works to make her happy. Because if she's happy doing it, then it will become more balanced. Does that make sense? No, absolutely. Like whatever she, like, like when she takes joy out of doing that thing, when it's inherently like, because I think to be a dominant, like it's gotta be motivated from within you. Like what you're doing has to be motivated by what you want. And if it's not motivated by what makes her happy and what she wants, it's not going to be a happy thing. It's not, then it becomes sort of like her running through the motions based on what she thinks I want, which isn't going to make her happy. No, it's sort of service topic. Yeah. And it's gotta be sort of a, for me, it's about that mutual exchange. It's that mutual exchange that makes it worthwhile. Yeah, that's pretty accurate. I think. He was very specific in saying that, yes, it's everything that like we're exploring and things that we're doing, like, I'm not going to be doing things that I'm coming into as a D type, because it's not something I've had much experience with. So it's something that I am still trying out lots of different aspects of kink and aspects of, of being a D type that I have not ever had experience with. So it is something that's very new for me and very almost unwieldy because there are so many things that I'm trying to do that I'm not able to do. And I think that's what makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. And I think that's what makes me feel like I'm doing the right thing. Yeah. Because there are so many things to try that I'm excited to try. And I appreciate the fact that he is very willing to let me explore all of those things and give me feedback, of course, of what he liked and what he didn't like, but never in a way that is like, don't ever do that thing, but just like, maybe not for me, but, or like, maybe less of that for me, but for someone else, go for it. Like we have a friend who was like, do whatever you want. Just don't put it in my ears, essentially. Like none of my orifices. Don't, don't, don't. No. None of my orifices is what he said. No, the weird thing was, none? No, no, no. Here's the thing. Yeah. Beat the hell out of me. Destroy me. Oh, but don't, don't, don't, don't hit my ass. No spanking. Which is, which is the, which is, which is the padded area upon which you could easily hit. Okay. That explains the marks now. Cause I assume it's the picture of the marks. Cause I was like, there's, I mean. No cushy parts. I was like, why did you get the thighs? No cushy parts. Thighs, feet, sure. So it was literally like, it was, it was, I kid you not, Melissa and I co-topped for the scene and it was an hour and a half of beating that guy. What a fun challenge. I love those challenges. But we barely got like a moan out of him. I hate that. Oh. Oh no, no, no, no, no. We got a growl. The growl was really satisfying. I like that. The growl was like, That was like an hour in. Like, like, like, like the under the breath, like growl is, is kind of really satisfying. I got a couple like mean looks when I slapped him in the face. But that was about it. Oh, I missed the slapping him in the face part. You were tying her up. Oh. Yeah. And I slapped him in the face and it was like, Face-to-face is a beautiful thing. I got a moan and the, the, the, the clothespins. He was not. Oh no, the clothespins was actually, that was, that was my favorite co-top moment. Was we had, we had, we had clothespins on his nipples. That was good. And we both had one clothespin and we were like three, two, one. And then we both pulled them off at the same time. And we both shoved our fingers into, because have you had that thing where you take clothespins off and you push directly into the nipple and it hurts like 40,000 times worse? I imagine I'm not personally aware of that. Both at the same time, we both popped the clothespins off and just both jammed our thumbs right, just right. And he's like, ah. The best was that he knew that that's what we were gonna do. Yeah, and there was nothing. And there was nothing he could do. He was tied to a thing and like, yeah, there was nothing he could do. It was done. Take that, Rob Snow. Yeah. No, because the best was- I know you're, I know you're listening out there somewhere, Rob Snow. Somewhere. Take that, Rob Snow. No. Take that. Because we stopped. You were like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is two handed. We both need to do this thing. Like we started the countdown and then stopped and then went for it. No! I didn't even touch you. I didn't even touch you. You did a thing. I'm not touching you. Especially not with the thing. I'm not touching you. Yeah. I'm not. It's not. It's totally a thing. There's nothing. What was she, doesn't she have a thing with not touching? Me not touching her. She has a thing. Oh. Like if I do that, it's torture. No, I thought she had a thing where- Where she was not touching me. She doesn't like to be touched. But didn't she have a thing where you were sick and she was not- No, no, no. She was under punishment. She was not not touching you? And part of her punishment is I would not touch her for a predetermined amount of time. Did it have to do with the cell phone? Did she use her cell phone wrong? No, she didn't use her cell phone wrong. With not getting permission. Did she not get permission to use her cell phone wrong? I, I, I. Oh, you used Pinterest like Tumblr. Yeah. Yeah. Tumblr. This is the, this is the silliest punishment ever. You misused a social network for another social network. For porn. So, yeah, so- Wait, all social networks aren't for porn? I know. LinkedIn notoriously has very little porn in it. You haven't been looking in the right place. Well, I guess I'm a little bit afraid. I'm sorry, do your friends have- Look under the customer service category. Shut up. So anyway, she, she wasn't, I said, I'm just not gonna touch her. So I did a lot of, I'm not touching you. I'm not. I was like, oh, I like drove her crazy. It was so awesome. You know, you gotta know- Sure. The, the, the person. How to manage them. What, what sort of drives them insane. Sure. And it worked. It was very good. Nice. Nice. Driving you insane. I could do it. Speaking of driving insane. Yes. Let's not talk about that anymore. No. No. But I think that kind of plays into the, the switch thing in the same way that the DS plays out. You have to know your partner. You have to know what you want. Out of the scene. Yeah. And what they might want out of the scene. So, and, and that goes both ways. You have to know what you want as a D type or as an S type. And I mean, we kind of touched on this. Yeah. It's almost like, it's almost like there, there are more details you have to keep in your head. Yeah. Because there are things that I would do as a dominant that I would probably not be into as a submissive. And same for me. And it's- I can say that this is a true statement for me. I'm not into the electricity, but he kind of is. So like that works, but- So. Hey. Yeah. That was good. Yeah. That was good. Yeah. Like he's tried it on me and I was like, yeah, no, still like I thought I would, but not- It's awesome. It feels like a tattoo. Yeah. It's kind of cool. Yeah. No, like it's cool, but it's not sexy. All right. Like if that's, if that's the goal, like you said, like if that's the end goal, that's not- It depends on, it depends on kind of like, like, like what, like what message- Intent, yeah. And we've both, and I think Melissa and I both, have done scenes with other people. I don't think we've done them together, but we've done scenes with other people that were particularly like, wow, that person did a whole bunch of stuff that was not sexy. Yeah. It was within a BDSM context, but, but was not sexy at all. And it's like, okay, that was an experience that I had. I don't know how super enthusiastic I am to have it again. Right. Like it was a thing that I did, and maybe at some point in the future again, for that experience, but like to get me to the orgasm end goal? That's not gonna get you there. Not the one. There's a lot of play then again, you can go into the concept of intent. Sure. There's a lot of different things you can do that might not be sexy at all. But if your intent is to make a sexual sensual component to it, you can. But I don't think, I mean, there's stuff that I'm not ever gonna be able to talk her into feeling as sexy. Needles. Hey, she likes needles, but it's not really like a sexy thing. It's more of like a- Needles are not sexy. For me, no. For some people they are. Well, they're instant like endorphin rush. Right. That's for sure. Like I felt like I was on drugs, but I don't know that that's gonna equal sexy time for me. Like blood play, less, like needles. Like I have needles in me. I don't think I want your penis in me now. Like- Wait, hold on. Only so many things in you, it's like- Wait, hold on. Only so many things in you, it's like- Only so many things in you, it's like- Wait, that's not like 100% all of the time thing? It's not like, ooh, I want all the things in me now, no. No? It's not like one's not representative of another. Like you're not being pierced by something and then you can be pierced by something else? No, especially because the first one that happened was with a woman. So I mean, had she had a- Had she had something to pierce you with? Better things to put inside of you than men do. Just so you know. Yeah, no, I'm saying- I can buy all the things that you can buy at Honeybun. But I have them all. But I- Yeah. I have a bag full of dicks. Yeah, even had she had a- I have a bag full of dicks too. They're called my pants. Ba-dum-bum. So I wanna know, are there any frustration? Sorry. Nancy has a question. Sorry, I'm singing Whitney Houston. Go. Carry on. It's hard for me to carry on when you're like that. You're behaving in this way. And I'm sober. I swear. I am not. Not at all. I have no excuse. I just wonder, like, you know, frustrations as a switch, are they, I mean, in what way are they similar to the frustrations of a submissive or a dominant? I don't know. I mean, I think- Having not been fully in either role. Okay, so, yeah, no, so I think I would perceive that, in a lot of instances, frustrations that can come about being a submissive. are troubles in and around expressing what you want and what you need. Is that, I mean, is that an accurate statement? It's being able to say to somebody that's necessarily in a particular position, hey, like these are the things that I'm going to need from this relationship in order to make it work, even though there is a power dynamic and the power dynamic is such where I am considered, quote unquote, the lesser or I'm considered the receiver. There are certain things that in that negotiation I'm going to need in order to be able to accept that role. I think the communication issues are the exact same for a switch, except it's more of an opposite. It's not of an opposite. It's just sort of like more so. I mean, to me, with Melissa and with my partners, like a couple months ago, like three or four months ago, I became like, okay, like I've been rolling as the dom for all of our relationships. This other portion of me is like something I need to make happen. And I don't like need it to be awesome right away. I don't need it to be like, I don't need you to roll in. I mean, because it's been in both instances for both of my partners, years that we've been together. Close to years. Shut up. Close to years. Close to years. Year-ish. Year-ish. You're not. I'm saying for me. I'm holding you down until next January. It will be years. Yes. At this point that you're talking about. Look at my eyes. Look at my eyes. It was like a year. Look at my eyes. You're not going anywhere. Did I say it was? You aren't. Okay. That was about the cutest thing ever. But it's one of those things where you're like, hey, like I need this. Like I need this part of me. I don't need you to be awesome at it immediately. I don't need you to, I don't need it all the time. I don't need it to be, but like I need something. Like I need an effort. I need. I need. To my credit. I was like, hey, I know you need this thing. You need to tell me when you need that thing. No. And that's, and that's super true. And then you were like, ah. And it's super true. But it's. You know what I need. You just need to do it. It's really like. Yeah, but you have to tell me sometimes that that's what you need. Like. Understood. It needs to go both ways. So. And it's. I think that's the frustration. Like, yeah. And those are, those are challenges in a lot of ways because it's. That's the frustration of like. It's that whole time. You have to ask for it sometimes. Well, now I would guess. I would guess like sort of as a submissive and kind of the difficulty in being submissive. It's like, like, I want your D top to be like your D top. Like, I want it to be about kind of like what you want and what you need. And, and like, you're just going to have that thing that you need. Right. And so for her to be like, oh, hey, you need to tell me when. It's like, I need to tell you when you want that thing that you want. Like, no, you should just like want that thing. Like, you should be like, I want that thing. Now I'm going to have that thing and you're going to do the thing because I tell you to do the thing. Because I want it. Like, it becomes difficult to say. Now do that thing that you want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do that thing that you want now. Right. It's very kind of topping from the bottom. And knowing, and knowing as a, knowing as a top how much planning goes into that. It's really hard as a submissive in some ways in a switch relationship to be like, hey, I'm going to put all the pressure on you. Hey, hey, I really need you to plan out a whole bunch of shit for me tonight because that's just what I need. So it gets to plan in. Motherfucker. Like, it's like, that's, I've been in situations where I've been put on the spot like that. Not necessarily with the partners that I've had, but with previous partners where it's feeling, uh-huh. So you're going to do this crazy thing. And it's like, uh. Yeah. Sure. No, totally. I will totally do that shit on the fly. That's fine. Magic is coming out of my ass now. Right? No, my ass is filled with magic. Well, mine is too. Rainbows and sprinkles. No. And. And popcorn. And that's cool, but it's like, I don't want. I'm sorry. If you're pooping unicorns, that's a whole different issue. Rainbows are normal. Unicorns is an issue. They're really pointy. She's actually pooping. She's actually pooping pegacorns. Pegacorns. They're half Pegasus, half unicorn. I'm familiar with that. Okay. We're a brony family, so I'm good. You're a brony family. Neither of you are bros. How can you be a brony family? You can be a female bro in a brony family. Neither of you are wearing an Ed Hardy shirt. You can't be a female bro. Sick burn. Take that, Ed Hardy. There's very few rhinestones. No, but it's seriously. It's glittery, but there are no rhinestones. But that weird, I mean, sort of that weird juxtaposition that I just discussed, like that's probably one of the hardest things. One of the hardest things I think for either of us is not wanting to put the other on the spot for being the person who's suddenly responsible. How do you keep yourself responsible for communicating clearly? We have to make lists. We have lists, man. We have lists and we have spreadsheets. We have Google Docs with spreadsheets that are like, hey, here's the shit that we need to talk about. No, and I even asked him when he was like, is it too much if we do a spreadsheet for this? I was like, okay, is a spreadsheet just for keeping track of what we're going to talk about? Or is it to also document what our answers to what we're talking about is? Because now, he said no, just for what we're going to discuss. Now you're forgetting. Any answers? No. So now I have a separate note to keep track of like my side thoughts until we get back to talking. No, like she has notes on her phone. Like I bet if she opened her phone right now, she would have notes of stuff that like we need. I do. And like possible ideas for scenes and just things because I'll forget and you forget too because we had this discussion the other day that he was supposed to have a scene that he discussed with his one of his rope teachers and they were both like, what? We were what? We were supposed to do a huh? Because it was just like jokingly they mentioned we're going to do this scene. I say a whole bunch of stuff like I'm going to dress up as Panda Bear and wear a hat and pull a rickshaw while you beat me with a bamboo pole. Right. But some of these things. This sounds like a good time to me. I already have the panda pajamas if you want to make it happen. And hats and slippers. You live real near, you know, a little Tokyo. Go time right after this. Right. It's a little cultural appropriation, but we'll deal with what we deal with. We could make it happen. But I think actually as. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Come on. As his partner specifically. Which I crossed. It's hard for me to know sometimes when he is joking or what he would actually like to have happen sometimes. Generally not. I think I'm like, I think when it comes down to it, like I try to be as serious as I can and like, hey, like this would be super cool. But there are times when you're joking. I'm joking that I'm not sure how much of that you would. And there are other things. Have happened. And the other things is like there's stuff that she does where she goes like Melissa goes to a lot of classes because she's trying to figure out what she likes and what she doesn't like in this, that and the other. And for her, she like goes and educates herself. And then I'll be like, oh, hey, you weren't available because you're going to this. Like, like, you know, like sassy, shitty me. I'll just be like, oh, well, you weren't available because you were going to this class. And she's like, asshole, I was going to this class because it's something I want to do with you. And I'm like, you never fucking told me. So I don't know. She's like, maybe it was a surprise. I'm like, it's tough for things to be surprises because they're in your Google Docs. But it's Google Calendar. There's the calendar. It's really like it's. But he's like, oh, was that for somebody else? I'm like, no, jerk. That's something you said you wanted. Like, I'm trying to learn how to do it so I don't just show up like, OK, we're going to do this thing. It's going to be awkward. Go. No, she's like, I am. I suffer from an embarrassment of riches. Yeah. I don't. I don't know what I've done to earn the credit that I've gotten. But I like I bask in the glory of my luck on a daily basis. Yeah. It's it's ridiculous. Are you guys going to Bazaar Bazaar? Probably. I would like to. I went last year. I didn't go last year. They're doing taster booths, you know. Yeah. Where you do like a little thing. I'm working. I'm working through the booths. Which are you doing? Yeah. I got needles and canes. I got I got last year. I got spanked by. Spanked. Do you know Marshall? Spanky. He's he used to be spanky. He's the leader of the Hollywood spanking munch and the Hollywood singles munch. Like he ran the spanking booth. And I like walked up and he's sort of like, you know, that's like all he's about is spanking. And I'm like, let's go. Here's my money. Ten of your best. Lay it on me. That guy's got thick hands. That guy. Did your buttocks hurt? That guy cannot sit properly. That guy can. Yeah. That guy can bring the thunder. Yeah. That guy can bring the thunder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like three. And I was like, I'm sweating and I've got like another seven. This is not going well for me. Yeah. No warm up. No. No. No. For the big spanks. Yeah. No. No. And that was that was the other mistake I make. There was no like I should have tipped for a warm up. Maybe. Maybe. Plus, I mean, you know, like Marshall and me both men. Right. Like, like, like feel feel my heterosexuality. So you don't you don't want to get too sensual with it. You just want to make it about like two dudes. Enjoying a spanking. I'm still on the whole panda thing and somebody feeding with a bamboo stick. Oh, panda. I have panda pajamas at home right now. And slippers and a hat. And a hat. It's a whole. Like I've got. I've got panda pictures. The only thing we need is some bamboo. Right. I've got bamboo at home. Yeah. I've got bamboo canes at home right now. So then you just need someone who can wield a cane really well. Oh. I know at least one person who's raising both of her hands right now. I see. I have some skill. Right here. Where this. Where this. Where this on video. We would know who was raising their hand, but I'm confused. What? Ooh. What could that be? May or may not have some skill with canes. Yeah. Bamboo and rattan and. There's also rattan at the house. I've got rattan as well. Of course. Yeah. And I've got like some sort of synthetic. I can't remember. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. The only one I don't think I have is I don't have like a fiberglass one just because I'm paranoid about breaking it. You don't have a metal one yet? I do have a metal one. That's amazing. Have you bent it yet? Have I what? Bent it. No. It's. This is some. Have you. It's hard fucking. Hold on. Have you put it. Have you put it in the refrigerator or the freezer yet? No, but I want to. I like it. Oh, we totally for the scene that we did on Saturday. I've got a metal paddle. We put it. We put it in the freezer. It's beautiful. Yeah. No. The reason I ask is that a friend of ours, we saw. I don't know where you were at the group, but did you stay for the group after party? Yeah. Did you witness our friend have the metal cane bent on her ass? Yes. Because, yeah, that's a thing that happened. Oof. Yeah. Wow. And then when we went to Seattle and we visited with those friends, they had since moved to Seattle and the sub was like, I want him to use it, but he's saying he needs to re-bend it back the other way on me and I'm not ready. That is not. I'm not ready. I was like, yeah, no, I don't think anyone's going to be ready. He's going to have to come back and play with her again. One of the cool things that I imagine. I don't know how that even happened. I don't know, but that's awesome. That's one of the cool things. Her ass must be, she has to talk about a buns of steel. Right. I guess. But I'm thinking like as when you're in that S-type role, I think a lot about what you say about how S-types have the most evil ideas. So I keep thinking that maybe that's also an awesome part about being a switch. Yes. Is that you have been in those shoes, you know what it's like. And you come up with these crazy ass shit to do to somebody else that you can't actually do to somebody else. Because hey, guess what? You're a switch. Actually, more and more lately. We've had friends coming to us that have been like, hey, I'm going to do this interrogation scene. What terrible thing can I do to this person? And I'm like, oh, let's meet up and have lunch and talk about the terrible things that can be done to people. Hey. Because, yeah, I've got a can of terrible things. Because I'm not a masochist. And so this particular, like these particular friends. They're like, I'm meeting up with Andrew and we're going to talk about terrible things to do to this sub that I'm working with. And you. I'm like, funny. No. She's not a masochist. Not me. And I do terrible things to her all the time. She does terrible things to me. And then people are like, how can you do that? That's so crazy. And I'm like, what? That was like, like, I mean, really? That was like a Tuesday. Yeah. Well, not even that. But that like, no, I know somebody else I could take like way fucking worse. What is this? I'm like such a pussy. Like, what are you talking about? It depends. Because some people look at, you know, they look at pain, but then there's a very different, there's a different kind of thing when you're dealing with the emotional, psychological thing. And that's what I do with her. And that probably is more around where you are. Because if you're not a masochist. Right. What are you going to do? I mean, there's, there's limited, there's, there's sort of. Well. And there's other things that, there's other things that like Melissa says she's not a masochist, but there are things that she's experienced before that she hasn't liked that you just need to, one of the biggest conversations that she and I have about any type of play at all. And I think it's sort of important for anyone to have is, is, okay, what's the context? Because you can make near anything sexy to me. If you can give me like, like a, I'm constantly saying, okay, where's the sexy at? Like where, like, like if you can put it in the right context, you can make it sexy. I mean, I would go back to the whole cropping thing. Like Melissa was like. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. We go, I will let you go to town on that. Okay. Okay. So part of our conversations of like. But like we went through our checklists again, because we had like a year plus ago when we first started like dating and then we hadn't really revisited it. So it was like, okay, you want me to top you. I need to know the things that you are interested in. And you then get to see the things that I'm interested in. We'll compare and figure out what we haven't done yet. So one of the things that was not high on my list was a crop. But he has a crop and we hadn't used it. So he was like, all right. Let's try this out. And I think because he knows me, he was able to use it in a way that was sexy for me. And I was like, yeah, but you didn't even use it that hard. He's like, no, I was fucking beating the shit out of you with that crop. I was like, oh, I didn't. I didn't realize because you were also fingering me at the time. So if you build a sexy and then you're hurting me as well, like it works. I got two hands. Right. I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't even know. I need one operated crop. Right. So like if you can build the sensual side of it, then the pain just kind of plays into it. And I've heard that that's not uncommon. Sure. But yeah, if you're just going pain, I'm going to shut off. Like all of it shuts down. There's no sexy in that. But if you can do both together, then yeah, that works. And it's doing both together. Like it's doing both together right. It's like under the difficulty, like the biggest challenge. And switches. It's like, okay, I need to now understand both sides of this equation and both sides of how these contexts work for you. And like, like, like that is one implement in the myriad of hundreds of things that are sort of on a checklist. And it's for us. It's been recently. It's been like, okay, I'm going to approach this. Like, let's talk about this one thing. You rank this one thing like super high. I ranked it as kind of like, why is it too private? Why is it sexy? Like, tell me in your head. What's the context in which it becomes sexy? And if I can wrap my head around that context, that's what I can use to bring that out of you. And a lot of instances, if something's like, if something's like, I don't really care either way. But my partner is like, no, like this is the shit. Like, this is like sploosh town. 110%. I am like, okay, like, why is it sploosh town? And they're like, oh no, it's this, this, this, this, and this. And, and then I'm just like gushing and I'm like, all right, I'm into it. Let's go. Let's go time. Right. But. I want to do it now. It's not just like, oh, I need a cane. It's like, why do you need the cane? Oh, because the cane builds into this thing. And then there's all this context around it. You have to know all those parts and then it works. And it's getting to that. Like for me, at least the checklist is the, the basis where you ask the questions. And it's being like, it's for me, I think the hardest part is it's sort of being. Vigilant about it. It's being vigilant about keeping yourself to having those conversations on a regular basis and keeping yourself to having those conversations specifically in a polyamorous relationship where we're both having experiences outside of our interactions together. It's continually understanding how those experiences then color what your perception is of any one of those events or how those events fit together. And it's consistently just sort of. Sitting down and going, oh, Hey, you did this thing. How did you feel about that? Okay. And what did you like? What did you not like? What would you change? What would you say the same? Was there anything. You want to do that again? Do you want me to do those things for you? Yeah. Um, is that something you want for me? Is that something you only want from someone else? Like, is that something that you only have an interaction with when you have an interaction with women? Um, because in a lot of ways, Melissa is exploring her bisexuality. So it's like, okay, do you see yourself only doing those things with a woman? Yeah. Or do you see that as something that you want from me? Or do you see that as something that you want to do to me? Or ever ever that really a thing? Or is that just a like, oh, that's something you think would be good, but didn't work out. And now you're done with it. Like, how, how did that go? Yeah. Cause you hear like, you hear like, Ooh, I did this thing with this person. And you're like, oh, oh, well you, you did that thing with that person. Well, I thought you didn't like that thing. Why did you do that thing with that person? That's not me. Why would you ever do that? You did that thing with that person. Then you're like, and you're like, well, why did you do that thing? And she's like, and she or I are like, yeah, no, that thing with that person was not good. And you're like, oh, okay. That thing with that person was in that instance. And yeah, that, that guy can stay in that experience. And that's a good, like, that was that one time thing. So when you guys are fantasizing, do you jump back and forth between both of you? Between both roles or whatever is lacking most, you find yourself falling into or whatever you're for whatever reason, just kind of feeling, cause you know, we all have ebbs and flows and seasons when we're feeling more dominant, less dominant. It's, it's the cycles. How does, how does it just man, random? In my experience, it's been definitely, um, I would say, yeah, ebbs and flows, like sometimes more dominant. Sometimes more submissive. Um, like it'll be maybe a week or two of one and then the other, like it is definitely, it doesn't just randomly fluctuate. It'll be like a period of time, like more dominant. And then, you know, another period more submissive. I think it's weirdly both for me because in my instance, like it's like, like if you're specifically talking about fantasy, it's the creation of the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you like like like you're you're creating a scenario you're setting a scene you're determining what's happening so in one instance i can see myself setting that scene as a dominant in the other instance i can fantasize about myself experiencing that i mean i think i just want to top myself i think is is what my fantasy is about so you want to figure out how to clone you yeah no no i think me would really handle my needs very well would you go heteroflexible so i can watch you have sex with yourself sure let's do this it's pretty flexy all these things right if there's one thing i'm never gonna say it's never okay so the the to surmise to summarize uh we've got communication obviously a lot of communication i really liked melissa what you said in the beginning is that there were four things there was you you have to had to you know figure out what you wanted as a dominant what you wanted from the submissive what you wanted as a submissive what you wanted from the dominant which obviously complicates the situation automatically more than if you're just a d type or just an s type i liked that i think that's a that to me is a big component of the responsibilities of a switch is understanding those four components communication i like google docs that's awesome yeah yeah um and then committing and and being present in the situation and then i think that's a big component of the responsibilities of a switch um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um so those things um it's like as a bottom, I'd like try to close my eyes and just enjoy what's happening to me. But I can entirely see that being a stumbling block. Yes. But to differentiate between critiquing and communicating. Yeah. Because you still have to be present enough to say, my hand is numb. I can't feel my fingers or my foot is tingly. Like you need to give that feedback. Or wow, that's tight. Right. Like that's really- In an unpleasant way. Right. Like that's really compressing my wrists right now. Like feedback is different from, ah, that looks ugly. The rope you put around my throat is choking me out. Right. Like I can't breathe. That was my intent. Oh, wait, what? Yeah. Right? Am I right? Am I right? It may be. It may be. But- Yeah. That's really tight on my neck from, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. Like different. Eh, you'll just pass out and loosen it up. I'm about to make sleepy time. Different. Different. Like different and important different. Right. Having experienced both need to communicate. So yeah. Yeah. Different from saying like, eh, this is fucking ugly. And the better you know somebody, I mean, it's one of those things that you're slowly building towards anticipating and less and less communicating. Yeah. Like the more you understand that, the more you can build scenes and build interactions around understanding what their expectations are. Absolutely. Getting to know your partner. Once you've kind of gotten past that initial state, it's so fantastic because then they trust you, you trust them, you know what's going on. It's like, all right, you trust me. We're just going to do some shit tonight. Don't know what it is. It's just going to happen. Right. And I love that. But as someone who's- Like what I do with you all the time. As someone who's new to being the D type, I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. But I know that being the D type, more communication is generally better. So I know what it is that is liked that is- Just do it. Just do it all. Just take it. Right. That's what S types want. Just take it. Well, thank you. This has been fantastic. We love, we fucking love you guys. We love you guys. Like, we really fucking do. So excited. I was like, Oh my God, I get to see Andrew and Melissa. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. we love seeing you guys like it's awesome your show is awesome I love your show please keep up the good work I'm totally gonna be rude and say I can't wait for us to come over again no totally come over whenever you right no I was actually disappointed that you guys weren't plenty of time these days that's true whenever you want I was disappointed that you guys didn't come to the rope bite munch this past week I don't remember why because she totally could have come over because you could have come over and witnessed us wrestle fucking robs yeah yeah you could have whistled you could have witnessed us wrestling robs now yeah we need to hang out with them more and we need to watch them have sex obviously this needs to happen no not only did I put a neck rope on him I also put arm cuffs on him and he now has like bruises on his arm I have bruises from Melissa's arm cuffs he also has bruises from her arm cuffs don't wrestle Melissa after she ties you that's not that's not moral of the story bruises from arm cuffs subscribe review us on iTunes share us tell people how awesome they are everywhere we love the show and if you want to come on let us know but you know like this seriously just make a joke they'll let you on it's amazing and have a topic you guys right now thanks