Episode

Hello, welcome to Annexpo's Secret, where we desire to make you stronger. We want to make you stronger in protecting your kids. We want to make you stronger in restoring your lives after victimization. I am really thankful that I have my two guests today with me. Elizabeth Rivas is with me. Hello, Elizabeth. Hi, good evening. And Patricia Winskunas. Hello. I want both of you ladies just to share a little bit about who you are and where you're working right now. Well, hi, I'm Elizabeth. And I'm currently in my master's program for marriage family therapist. And I'm also working at Casa de la Familia, which is a nonprofit agency that does counseling for victims of crime. And Patricia. Hello, my name is Patricia Winskunas, and I'm the founder CEO of two nonprofits. One is Crime Survivors. The other is Orange County Crime Stoppers. I'm also a survivor of attempted murder as well as a lifetime of victimization. Thank you for sharing. Patricia, I'm actually going to ask you to share just a little bit more about your history starting out as a child, being a victim as a child. And what led you to this point where you are doing awesome work with crime survivors and crime stoppers? Thank you. Well, what I say is there's a difference between living a victim's life and a survivor's life. And the reason why I can say that is because I think I lived my first half of my life as a victim. At the age of eight, my uncle molested me. And when I eventually told my mom, she told me I couldn't tell anybody because it would break up the family, which was really unfortunate to me because then I developed severe eating disorders, stomach problems, just going through self-blame, self-shame, thinking that that's what little girls did with uncles. That's what they did with men. And then was on my own at 15, single mom at the age of 20, and then moved out to California from Illinois, thinking that. You know, I was going to be able to start a fresh life with my son out in California. Not really dealing with the victimization, being victimized over and over again throughout my life and not even really knowing what that meant or what that looked like or what it felt like. And so then when I went to the doctor, I was still dealing with the eating disorders, not knowing. And he said, you know, Patricia, if you want to live a successful life, you're doing very good in your career, your business. I was a successful. Caterer, event planner. He said, you know, Patricia, you need to beat this. So he sent me to 24-Hour Fitness, said, get yourself a trainer, get yourself a program. You can beat this, which is that's what I did. And then on April 4th of 2002, my life changed because that day my trainer came into my house, drugged me, wrapped my face in saran wrap, beat me black and blue and tried to kill me and then said he was going to kill my son when he was done killing me. Short story from the whole long story, I was able to eventually get away. He was charged with deliberate premeditated attempted murder, burglary in the first degree, assault with a deadly weapon and criminal threat. And through our legal system, he served 120 days. So I have to say life changing. But that day also I was re-victimized. But that day a survivor was also born. What set you to that point where you felt a survivor was born? Where did you go from breaking through from that victim state to that survivor? What did you do to help that victim state? I think what helped me is well for six months I sat at home, stared at my wall, crying, not functioning, post-traumatic stress disorder, depression so bad, pretty much lost my business. I wouldn't even take a glass of water from my own son. So I wasn't mothering him. He was more mothering me until I heard him in the other room one day to say he said to his friends, I wonder if my mom's ever going to be my mom again. And that was the break point for me. Because my son was a survivor. My son was everything to me. He still is everything to me. So I was able to get enough strength to go to a counselor, to go to a therapist. I had to see three of them before I found one that I really felt a match, a connection with. And I'll have to say she saved my life. I used to think that if you went to a counselor or a therapist that something was wrong with you. And I learned through this process that if we went through counseling therapists, if we seeked an outside person away from our friends, away from our family, that we could just be us. Whoever that was at that moment, we could share, we could open. I was able to not only deal and cope with the victimization knowing that it was not my fault. Little girls at age eight don't do those things with their uncle. That's not okay. Parents are supposed to protect us. And then if someone tries to kill us and we survive, that illegal system is supposed to be there to protect us. And that's not okay. That's not okay. It's supposed to be there to protect us and empower us at all cost. And I feel that that didn't happen. But I feel like that breaking point, that counselor, that therapist, she was absolutely amazing and empowered me. And then I also believe my faith. With faith, I believe there's hope. And I really want to empower and get the message out there to all victims, to all families to let them know that if someone in your home is victimized or abused, put a face to it. Put a voice to it. Speak out about it. Get help and get support so you can break the cycles of victimization. Because today, I was able to break that cycle of victimization. I am a survivor. I'm proud of that. And it's not always easy to share my victimization. But it's easy to share my survival because I feel like it impacts other victims to survive. I want to back up to something you said that I think is so key. If you go to a therapist. And that first one just doesn't feel right. That doesn't mean that counselors are all bad or you can't find another counselor that will work for you. That's not something that's on the counselor in the community of counseling. It's like a relationship, a dating relationship where you go a few times. If it's not a good fit, you go and you get with another counselor. And it took you three tries to find one that was that perfect fit. That really launched you into a new life. That really launched you into a thriving mentality beyond the survivorship. And I think that is so key. And I hope that people, if they go to a counselor and it's not a good fit, they don't give up on counseling. They don't give up on counseling because counseling is an amazing tool to heal. Oh, absolutely. I totally agree. It's the same scenario with my son. He went to a counselor. He went a couple times. And we found our boundaries. Because we never had boundaries set into place. And even with therapists, you need to have boundaries set into place. Because I remember the male therapist, my son got so mad. He came out of the session. He said, I'm not coming here anymore. He was upset. He was crying. And he was only 12 at the time. And I was like, well, what happened? He said, the counselor said I needed to be his friend, that he's my buddy. And he's like, I don't want to be his friend. He's not there to be my friend. Look what happened to you when you were friends with that guy that tried to kill you. So it was interesting to see, yes, even with your therapist, you need to set up boundaries. They're not there to be your friend. They're not there to be your friend. They're not there to be your friend. They're not there to be your friend. They're there to be able to get you through, to empower you. They're not there to go to your house with you or for coffee, for instance. They're there to really be able to break that cycle. So you have to make sure you put boundaries into place also. Elizabeth, what are some aspects that you've seen where counseling really works and those characteristics in really stellar counselors? Well, first and foremost, you want to make sure that the person is licensed. There's a lot of people out there that are claiming to be counselors or therapists or even life coaches, but each one has a different role. And so you want to make sure that you are seeing someone who has a valid license. And you're absolutely right. There has to be that rapport between the two of you. If you don't feel it, if you have an uncomfortable feeling, then you should probably find somebody else. And then eventually, you want to build that relationship of trust where you're going to be able to talk about the most intimate things that happened to you. And if you don't have that connection with the therapist, it's not going to work. So even checking on their website, talking to people who might have referred you to them, how many years they've been in practice. I mean, there's a lot of things that you should check into before you start seeing somebody. And I think there's a special niche when someone has experienced sexual abuse themselves or has someone close to them who has experienced sexual abuse. Healing through sexual abuse is really unique. And you need to have a counselor who has a great sensitivity to that. And not all counselors are going to be equipped to deal with the issues surrounding victimization around sexual trauma. Same thing with PTSD and depression. There's a lot of therapists that are not trained or experienced in EMDR. There's many different types of therapists. There's a lot of different things right now that really works a lot for PTSD and depression, anxiety disorders. Same thing with mine, eating disorders. The therapist knew about PTSD. Depression was trained in all of that as well as child sexual abuse, victimization. And eating disorder. It made a huge impact and difference so that I could work through and talk through all of that as well. Could both of you give a glimpse to our listeners about what EMDR is? I've personally gone through EMDR and it was amazing. And very freeing for me. But could you explain to our listeners what EMDR is? It's a type of therapy and again, the person has to be certified to do it. Just because you take one class in EMDR doesn't mean that you should be doing that on clients. So please make sure that they are certified as an EMDR therapist. And basically, in a nutshell, it captivates. It captures. The memory part of the back of your brain to the trauma. And there's different types of EMDR where the therapist can use her finger and move it from left to right. And the patient is looking at it. There's also clapping motions where again, the patient is concentrating on the clapping or the finger going back and forth. And they bring you back to the trauma. And they let you be there. But then they also walk you through the process of saying you're not there any longer. And it helps the person to stop the flashbacks to gain control and understand that that trauma is no longer what they're going through. Does that make sense? Well, I know for myself as I was having the memory during EMDR, I was doing everything that I would have liked to have done as a child. The pushing away, the cleaning up, everything that I was powerless to do in my mind. I was powerless to defend myself. But everything that was stored in my body, in my childhood state, I got it out that day. And through getting all that out and having that memory, I was free from it. And I could tell you exactly the memory. And I'm not gripped by the memory anymore. And it's really amazing. But you absolutely have to be ready and in a very strong state to start to go through EMDR. And I was in counseling probably a year to a year and a half before I actually even had EMDR. How close were you in therapy or how soon did you start it before you did EMDR, Patricia? I don't remember exactly how long it was. But I do know that for me, it was an interesting dynamic. Because I had been dealing with at first talking about the attempted murder. Right. And about a lot of domestic violence and a lot of other scenarios and victimization that I had endured throughout my life. So it was going through all of that. Going back to age eight, I have to say was the most challenging, most difficult out of all of it. Because the attempted murder wasn't as, if this doesn't make any sense when you say it. But to me, all I could say is it wasn't as. It wasn't as violent. Which is hard to explain to people because you think attempted murder is the most violent. You know, I almost lost my life. But all I remember is starting that EMDR therapy and going through the therapy in a session. And just completely feeling as if I was that eight-year-old all over again. And remembering like literally having to get up and go and vomit in the bathroom. I was so sick and I was so scared. It was the hardest, hardest thing I think. Because then it was almost as if when I started that process, it was, although I was that eight-year-old girl. And I was being victimized there. And then the guy at the same time was trying to kill me. It was almost as if it was all happening at once. It descended all at once. But I'll tell you what, it truly has made a difference. Because now when I speak about it, and granted, listen. I'm one person as a survivor that says, for the rest of my life, I'm going to have moments. I'm going to have good moments, happy moments, bad moments, angry moments, sad moments. I'm going to see saran wrap and I'm going to have to allow that moment. I'm going to see certain gyms and I'm going to have that moment. And sometimes I'm going to be ticked off and sometimes I'm going to be sad and emotional. But I also take that moment to realize it's just a moment. That moment is here for now. Whatever that feeling and emotion is, it will pass. And a new moment will come. So if you have a moment and you're surviving out there, and whether it be the first 24 hours, whether it be 20 years down the road, take that moment, acknowledge it, recognize it. If you need to stay in bed for the day, give yourself a break. Stay in bed. If you need to go to the counselor and talk about it, go to the counselor and talk about it. But know that you'll have a new moment. And that really, I think, through counseling, through AEMDR, through therapy, it really does help with that. I totally agree. There is freedom in knowing that you're not alone in this. And we sit here today speaking out to you, letting you know you're not alone, and wanting to give you the outlet to share or ask questions. So feel free to call in at 800-893-9562. Once again, that's 800-893-9562. We want this to be the place where you can share. And we want to open up and expose the secrets behind it. Especially that you're not alone. So often we feel as if we need to keep these secrets to ourselves because then we're going to be seen as the victim. Or we're going to be seen as used goods or not good. You know, a lot of us wanted to be good little girls. And that's what we fell into. We were very obedient and we were good little girls for our uncles or those who called themselves uncles. And then we really struggle with that. That we were not able to protect that little girl. But we didn't need to. We were children. We were little kids that needed to be protected. And we don't need to carry any of that shame, any of that guilt. Well, I think we were good little girls. We were. And we are still good girls. But we're good women now that are really sharing it and putting a voice to it and putting a face to it. And that's what society needs to stop. We need to stop questioning and blaming the victim. And to put the shame and the blame where it belongs to. And that's the one that did the victimization. Absolutely. And we want to share a lot about that tonight. And talk about what rights do victims have. And we have a heap load of rights. First, we have the right to know we're innocent. Right. Absolutely. That's a good one. And no court of law is going to tell us that. But we are innocent. And you can wear that badge with great courage and pride. You are innocent. And what are other rights that victims have in that, you know, there are a lot of laws in place, especially in California. And you've had a great part in that. And I want you to share that. But maybe your state doesn't have all those laws in place. But listen to the laws that we're going to talk about. And see how you can implement those. In caring for people whom you know have been victimized. You'll understand what their heart is. And what they truly need after they've experienced victimization. But could you share about Marcy's Law? And what's taken place with that being implemented? Well, the great thing about Marcy's Law is, you know, unfortunately, the saddest thing I should start with is the fact that Marcy Nicholas was murdered by her boyfriend. She had just broken up with him. And she was murdered by him. And unfortunately, that's been over... I don't know. I don't know if you can see. That's been over 26 years now. And thankfully, her brother, which is Henry T. Nicholas, was able to fund and put money towards Marcy's Law here in the state of California. And I know he's working throughout many other states to do that as well. But the unfortunate thing is, is that we didn't have so many rights. I mean, I think victims had one right in our Constitution. And criminals had, I believe, it was 23. And unfortunately, it took a voice to speak out. And I remember after my victimization, I went to an assembly member at the time, Todd Spitzer, and said, I don't understand. Why is it that criminals are read their rights, their Miranda rights, but victims are told nothing? They're told to basically move on with their life, that according to the DAs, according to the court process, the legal system, they're told this case is not about you. This is the state against the criminal, not you against the person. And that always bothered me. And we actually did a pilot program with eight law enforcement agencies. We came up with a card that was given to victims. So they basically would say, you have a right to a victim advocate. You have a right to restitution. You have a right to participate in all of the court proceedings. And then in 2008, because our legislation didn't pass it, didn't put it through for victims' rights, he had to spend his money. I believe he spent over $5 million putting Marcy's Law on the ballot. And then the people, the state of California voted for that. So now we do have Marcy's Law, which gives you the right to be treated with respect and dignity, gives you a right to participate in all of the court proceedings. So you basically now have a voice to participate. You do have a right to restitution. You have a right to participate in all of the parole hearings. Many families, they can't afford to go to the parole hearings. But at this process, they can. But at this process, they're able to go to there. There is more than one person. You can also have legal representation, which is an amazing thing because for the longest time, you were not able to have an attorney represent you. And now you are able to have an attorney represent you. So that's a phenomenal growth spurt. That's a phenomenal thing that now entitles victims to be able to have rights. So we've come a long way with these new rights. That's fantastic. That's awesome that there is that in place in California. And we want to reach out to this caller who's calling in and see what question he or she has for us. Caller. Yes. Yes. Hi. My name is Andy. Hi, Andy. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you. My question is regarding you guys were recently talking about child abuse. And I'm a first responder healthcare provider. I'm a first responder healthcare provider. I'm a first responder. What are some of the things that I can look for or address as a first responder in regards to calls that we might go on as far as child abuse, child neglect, possible sexual abuse to children? You can give me some insight on that. Absolutely. One of the aspects that I see, and I know it's very subtle, is a victim of sexual abuse quite often has a look of vacancy. That something has been taken from them and there's just not that innocence sparkle in their eye that many children just naturally have. There's also a time when possibly they'll retreat to like the fetal position and they're stepping back into their childhood to try and protect themselves like they were in the womb. They might rock back and forth. They might be sucking their thumb and they might be older where you wouldn't expect that. expect that. I know quite often as a first responder, you don't know who the perpetrator may be. And so you need to stand in a position where you're able to allow the child to feel that he or she is protected. It's best if you can get down and look eye to eye with them. So they feel that you are listening to them on their level. You know, when you come in in a uniform, it can quite often feel intimidating to a young child. And I tell officers, you know, often to strip the uniform. And I don't mean that literally, but you want to do everything to just get down and be with them and feel as if you're a person who wants to hear from their heart and you trust what they're going to say. Right. And I think that's our biggest, our biggest hurdle is as, you know, healthcare providers, we want to immediately, you know, you know, you know, help the child. And it's, you know, it's a task, you know, as far as finding out who, what, where, when, and how, and getting to the bottom of it, you know, and following the right procedures to be that advocate for the child, you know. And I think just what Patricia was saying is you don't necessarily know at that moment if that child is actually a victim. But if you can think in their mind that they have that look of fear or concern or that something's just not right, you want to keep tucked in the back of your mind, what is this child's rights at this moment? Well, a lot of times they'll also say that a child, if you can call the child aside, away from the parents, where you're just talking to them themselves, where whether it's in their room or outside or to a separate area, whether it's at the hospital, wherever, whereas you are just talking to the child alone and you see, observe many things like they're playing with their hair, they're picking at their fingers, you know, there's just a lot of that, but they feel comfortable. And again, I agree, it's getting at their level. That makes a huge difference. And whether it's a child or an adult, it's sitting at their level, whether it's grabbing a chair, sitting on the floor. And a lot of times first responders are told not to do that. Right, right. But I'm all for saying it. I mean, I speak at the academy classes and the patrol schools and we get out there and we say, you know what, get to that person's level because that way you're breaking that barrier at that time. You're getting them to feel comfortable. And I think that's a really important thing. And I think that's really important to be comfortable with you. And I absolutely do that as I work with the children who are in our program with the Quarter Blue, where we do art therapy with kids and their parents. And I'm right down there with them. And even as a child has a potential of disclosing, you know, you might see a play set in the back and just go climb up and swing on the swing set with them as you're talking to them and put them in a typically comfortable environment. You know, kids are kids who play, whether it be with balls or going down the slide and they will open up more as they're comfortable, maybe doing a secondary task that may be play or making them a sandwich, just getting them comfortable and building that rapport with them in such a short amount of time. But we want to get them doing something kids do so that they feel as if they can open up and be themselves. Yeah, I agree. I think that's a special skill that I think, you know, I think that's a special skill that I think, you know, I think that as a first responder, I need to develop too, is being able to come down to their level and talk to them with their language and taking that so-called badge away and just kind of let it be an equal playing ground, you know, to let them to get comfortable. Because inevitably, they're not going to talk unless they feel comfortable, you know, and that's the hardest part is, you know, getting to them to that state, you know, of being comfortable to talk to us. And I greatly appreciate that you have the desire to become more sensitive to that in your job. And you're looking at and saying, okay, the academy maybe didn't prepare me for this, but I want to be prepared. And we... Yeah, and that's the thing, they don't really prepare you for a lot of stuff that you see. And ultimately, I am an advocate for everyone that I go on and the citizens in which I, you know, I provide the safety for. And it is, you know, I'm a parent myself. And so kids always have a closeness to your heart, they're near and dear, you know, to you anyway. So, you know, being able to develop those those to talk to them to where they do feel comfortable. And it's almost, I don't know if it's appropriate by saying almost immediately, because we have short amount of time on scene to get as much information as we can of what's going on, you know, whether we responded to the incident as a possible abuse, or, you know, maybe even something, you know, a shortness of breath, and we're just now starting to notice some of these other signs, you know, and that's what I was looking at, you know. Patricia, could you think about what was the number one characteristic? That allowed you to, as difficult as it was to maybe drop your guard a little and share to the responding officers? Oh, yeah. Patricia is just going to share from her personal experience. Well, for as for a child, I didn't because I shared it with my mom, I didn't share it with an officer. But as an adult, I have to say the Irvine Police Department was absolutely phenomenal. The investigators, the detectives, the police, they were all very, very helpful. And I think that's what I'm going to say to you. I think that's what I'm going to say to you. I think that youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth because he treated me with respect and dignity. They asked, I remember when I was at the hospital and him saying to me, you know, he grabbed his chair. He grabbed his chair and he just sat next to me at the hospital. And he basically said, I know these are going to be really hard, challenging questions, but I need to ask you these questions because we want to make sure that we get an arrest, we get a conviction. I remember him just treating me as an equal. He wasn't, like, I didn't see him in a sense with a uniform in that tone. It was just that he came down to my level, he respected me, and I was able to open up so much more compared to what I hear from other people, from other victims. You know, when you're standing over somebody with a pad of paper and you're saying, okay, you know, what were you wearing? All these questions in a very, I don't know, very challenging, just rude way. But when you change it and you treat a victim if you're an officer, you're a first responder, if you treat them just like you'd want yourself, your mother, your sister, your brother, your aunt, your uncle, or your own child treated, it changes the dynamic of things, I think. Absolutely. And Andy, I really appreciate you calling in and having the heart to reach out when you're a first responder on crimes such as this. Thank you for wanting to learn and to make a difference in the lives of victims. And I appreciate you saying, Patricia, of them coming to you. And I don't know if you've heard, I don't think that's any different whether you be a child or an adult. When they treat you with that respect and they listen, it's amazing. Because I've been in the room where a child protective service worker had been questioning one of my students. And I was so sad how he treated her. And she became a victim in that room as he questioned her actions the day in which she was molested. You know, why were you in pajamas in the middle of the day? Why would you even do that? Why would you change? And I just broke my heart because he wasn't her advocate. He wasn't wanting to truly hear her story. He wanted to question everything she was doing. Elizabeth, what have you experienced? We talked a little bit about this last week about the criminal justice system and the victims actually testifying in court. And again, they've already been through a very traumatic event. And then to have to go, face the perpetrator and talk in detail about what happened to you. Some of these public defenders, again, they're rude, they're disrespectful. And the line of questioning sometimes is so out of line. And some district attorneys are very good at objecting and trying to stop that what's happening. Again, some of the judges as well, they'll, you know, stop. They'll stop the public defender and, you know, take him back into chambers. But other times they don't. So again, that victim is having to be re-victimized, but in a very different environment with the perpetrator sitting there staring at them. And it's very difficult to have to go through that again in those circumstances. And I know Patricia, you and I have really a heart to transfer. But now, as youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth youth And that's really what we want to do. We want to make sure that we get out there. We want to educate the first responders, the law enforcement, judges, district attorneys, victim advocates, everyone that we are united together in this. We need to make sure that we empower a victim, that we provide every single resource to them. Again, that we treat them with respect and dignity. I say that many times over because that is so important to me. Because I really believe that when you do treat that victim and that victim has the correct resources, they're able to break the cycle of victimization. They're able to survive. They're able to thrive afterwards. But it's just really getting out there to change what's been set into place. And I remember the first time I spoke at an academy class, one of the officers came up to me afterwards and said, we've never heard from someone that survived. We're always told what the rule books. Really say to do how to act. But this person said, you know what? We'll carry this with us now to be able to know that. Yes, it does matter. It does. That extra second can really make or break a victim survival, in my opinion. And sometimes it's getting out there and hearing it. And, you know, many of the chiefs have said to me, you know, Patricia, when I tell them to do something or I share with them, that's one thing. It almost gets, oh, my boss is telling me to do this. But when they hear it from a survivor that's surviving, it totally makes a complete difference. Absolutely. They need to hear from victims because they will not learn it from us if we remain quiet and carry that undue shame that's not ours to bear. They need to know what we felt like as children, what we feel like as adults and what we're looking for because we're broken at that point. And our trust is virtually gone. Because we trusted that person who typically victimized us. They're not typically the stranger who lurks around in dark alleys. They're people whom we've built a relationship with. And in both cases, I mean, share about the relationship you had with both your uncle and your trainer. Well, I worked out with my trainer for nine and a half months. And obviously, it took him that long to earn my trust, which is really sad and unfortunate because. For the longest time afterwards, when I think about my uncle was my uncle, his family. It didn't just start with abuse. It didn't just start with molestation. I always tell people when people say, well, how did it start? And I always say, well, the chapter in my book will be it started with the purple barrette. Because that's what it happens. It didn't just start me going into a gym and some guy tried to kill me. It took a long period of time to earn that. That. Trust from me. And for the longest time afterwards, I remember thinking and talking to my therapist about the fact of. Now, I can't trust anybody. I was I was able to trust for a long time. Strangers was easier for me to trust than people I knew. And I felt so guilty and so bad because some of my closest friends didn't understand why I wouldn't take a glass of water from them. Why I wouldn't invite them to my house. Why wasn't I telling anybody where I live? Some of them would be so upset, like, but I've known you for 20 years. How can you be that way? But it was the people that I knew that I had such a hard time with. And now it's just learning boundaries. It's learning balancing. It's learning to survive. And it's learning to also impact other people. For me with faith, there's always hope. And I hope that other victims know that whether tonight they're listening and they're like, well, she's surviving, but I can't survive. This happens. This happened years ago. I can't get out of my bed. Just take one moment at a time. Make that call to a therapist. Take that opportunity. And sometimes we all depend. I think as victims, we look at the justice system and we believe that there's going to be justice. We think as a victim, they're going to be there to protect us. We think that we have all these rights. But what happens when you don't get these rights? What happens when in my case, four felonies, four strikes? And he serves 120 days? Well, we still can't give up. I've had officers that have told some victims that you do realize, I know this is a rape case, but are you sure you want to file this report? Because it's going to be a long process and he's probably going to get off anyway. Well, whatever happens, I will stand side by side with victims and I will help them to file the police report. Help them through the legal process. Yeah. And I will empower law enforcement advocates, whoever else that I can, to put a voice to that because no matter what happens in the justice system, those doors are not going to open up and everything's going to be okay. That's I think we all think that. We think, well, if we file a police report, it's going to go to court. He's going to go to jail forever. The doors are going to be open and an alleluia moment's going to happen and I'm going to go back to my life like it was before. Unfortunately, that does not happen. Yeah. Whether it's 120 days, whether it's not guilty or 100 years, we need to find hope to heal from within, kind of like a butterfly. My one best friend always would say, Patricia, you remind me of a butterfly. And that's what it is in a sense, because we're in our little cocoons, we're stuck there in pain, devastation. We don't know what to do. We don't know who to trust, but when we're able to open up and we're able to find our voice and put our faith to it. and it could be with just one person, we're able to survive through a process. And we talked about that in our parent support group. And it really was illustrated in an amazing way when Andrea came in and did an art therapy project with our parents of victims of sexual abuse. And we've talked about, we're on a path. And today you're right here and there's a path before you and you take it day by day. You don't need to look five days down the line, five years down the line. You don't, what if, what if, what if? No, there's enough to face today. And I know that I was doing the project with the parents and my path was all the pieces were linked together and they were made out of broken record pieces. And mine was this nice path and I'm not paying attention to what everybody else was doing. But think through this, I've been on the healing path 20 years. And that's where each of those pieces were able to come and be butted up against one another for me to go step by step. And I have a clear understanding of the path. Our parents who have just started on this path of healing and wholeness for their families and their children who were victimized, their past, can you describe them for our listeners? Elizabeth, describe those paths when we turned and we looked at their broken record pieces and how the parents had put their path together. Sure. Truly an amazing process because the parents really didn't picture what they were gonna do. They just kinda just started grabbing things and looking at different paragraphs and specific words and they really didn't plan it. But when they were finished and they looked at the pieces that were broken and someone had put their broken pieces on top of each other like to build a little mountain, they were like, oh, this is gonna be a little bit more difficult. And they described how sometimes they feel like they're going up the mountain, but they know eventually they're gonna go down the mountain. And then some pieces were connected and some pieces were spread apart. And it reflected how their process is not smooth. And sometimes there are ups and downs. So it was an amazing thing. And to have them describe it after, for them to realize, wow, I didn't even think about that. But internally, it was just an amazing thing for them. It's amazing how art puts itself out there without them even thinking. And that's the beauty of working in art, in art therapy, is we don't have to say a word. We just put our hearts on a piece of canvas or on a board and the story's all there. And I'm blessed to work alongside of amazing artists like Wayne and Andrea and help them guide our victims and their families through art and watch it heal. And you need to look in your communities and see where there are opportunities for you to heal. I know at A Quarter Blue, we have group therapy. We can refer you to different individual therapists. We will do our best to find you a therapist in your own area. And we have art therapy, and we're working towards dance therapy. We're working towards dance therapy. We're working towards play therapy. And you can always call 211 and find what's out there for you. It's an information base where you can call and share your needs and they will guide you also to help you find a resource for you to begin your healing path. Patricia, could you explain what Crime Survivor has as you're working alongside of victims? Well, the good thing about Crime Survivors is we provide support and guidance to all victims of violent crime. So it's family members of murder, attempted murder, rape, domestic violence, sexual assault, and child abuse. And so basically what we do too is it's a really good extra avenue set into place for law enforcement, for first responders, is we distribute our child and adult victim emergency bags because we do respect the fact that they have their job to do. They have to collect the evidence. They have to get an arrest. They have to file all of that. So that's a lot. So basically what we do is we provide victim emergency bags for the first 24 hours of the day. And then we have a lot of people who are in the hospital. They have to get their first 24 hours. They can give them to the victims. And then we also have our resource guides countywide. So we have them throughout Southern California. We're trying to expand that as well. But basically inside of a resource guide, it's really powerful because a victim would have access the first 24 hours, six months down the road, six years. And inside those resource guides are everything that a victim would need. It has what their rights are. It has all the local hospitals, probation departments, attorney's offices. It has all the advocates contact information in there. It has all the other nonprofits in that county that are able to help them and assist them. If there's something that's not in there, they can also contact us directly where we can provide them. We can provide them first and foremost with what their rights are. We can get them in contact with a victim advocate, get them in contact with the state program so that if they need to relocate, they can get those costs reimbursed to them. We truly believe that a victim shouldn't have to go through any of those things. We want them to be able to get through it. And we want them to be able to get through it because they don't have to spend any money out of their own pocket or hardworking earned money to something that by no cost of their own that they went through. So we want to make sure that they have all of those into place. And then counseling, therapy, whatever they need the first 24 hours or whether it be 16 years down the road, we're there to support them from A through Z. Contact, you know, and connect them with your organization. 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We're also on Facebook and Twitter, and we also have our blog. So we have a lot going on. It's interesting to see that it's our 10th year this year, and we've helped thousands of victims so far. So when I got into this, I said, if I could just help one other person, then it would all be worth it. So I really feel like with helping thousands and getting out there and doing different programs and services in the community, I think it's an amazing thing. And you've also branched out and started a chapter of Crime Stoppers in Orange County. Can you share with our listeners about that? Yeah, absolutely. Because I didn't have enough on my plate already doing crime survivors. I took the advice of some of my mentors, and I actually launched Orange County Crime Stoppers with all the chiefs, all the law enforcement agencies throughout Orange County are all part of this. It's also a nonprofit separate from crime survivors. And basically, it's anonymous tips, so they can text in a tip, web in a tip, or email a tip. That website is occrimestoppers.org. And it's really a good avenue because if you see something, say something, do something. Most people don't want to get involved because like the old mentality is you see something, you know your neighbors are dealing drugs, for instance. You shut the blinds because you're afraid. You know your neighbor's involved in a gang, something is going on with weapons, guns, drugs, whatever. It may be a lot of people will shut the blinds because they don't want to get involved. They're afraid of retaliation. They're afraid something's going to happen to them. Where Crime Stoppers, you can call anonymously. We don't know who's calling. Law enforcement won't know. And then on top of it, if there's an arrest, not on conviction, but on arrest, we pay a reward to the anonymous tipster, never asking who they are, never asking any questions. We want to make sure that we can get that additional level of information to law enforcement so they can go out and do their job and they can make an arrest. And one more time, could you say how to, if they were to see a crime, where they would go to? Tell the three places through. Yeah, they can 855-TIP-OCCS. So they can do it that way. They can also go to the website, occrimestoppers.org. So we have all the information on our website. They can do that. They can also call it in. They can also text in a tip, which they can get the information off our website as well. That's fabulous. If you could summarize what victims need, what would those three things be? Well, for me, again, I say with faith, there's hope. So for me, I would definitely say that, you know, and it could be any faith, whatever your faith is, I think that you should have some sort of faith. And then I also think that you have to have hope and you just have to be able to have a support system. And I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, whether that be family members, whether it be friends, whether it be therapist, whether it be someone of your faith that you can turn to, that you can trust, that you can depend on. Most importantly is to trust yourself, trust that feeling, trust that instinct. If there's a red flag, if you have that feeling, and I always say to all women, especially, we have that instinct and I think men also have it, but I think women have it more so. When we have that feeling, we have to honor it and recognize it. And it's okay to say no. It's okay when someone comes into our space, whether we're children, whether we're adults, to say no and to also speak up if something happens. That's not okay. And Elizabeth, what would you say if I am a friend or a family member of a victim would be the three best things I could do for that friend or family member who's a victim? Well, first and foremost, be there to be supportive. Sometimes, like Patricia was saying, there's that fear. They don't know who to trust. So just being there to support them and to listen to them when they're ready to talk about it, because a lot of victims will hold in what happened to them for years and they'll never talk about it and they'll just keep it inside. And that's when you're going to be there. That's when you start seeing physical problems, high blood pressure, stomach problems. So that's probably the most important thing is to be supportive. And then also to help them get resources. If they're ready to talk about it, help them find the therapist. Help them go with them to the police department to help them make the report. And the third thing is, again, I think to love yourself. You know, love, love unconditionally and be the person that they need at that moment. It's so key for people to stand by a friend or their family member to let them know that they're believed. Because so often, as you said, your mom dismissed it in the sense of she wanted to preserve the family unit and to not stir up trouble. But a lot of times by being truthful, we are the squeaky wheel, but it's the truth. And that person needs to be prosecuted for what they did. And if our family turns our backs on us, we need someone to stand by our side. And it might be a victim advocate, but it might be a friend. So some of you might not have experienced victimization, but you can be that friend or that family member to have an incredible impact, letting that person know they are not alone. They are believed and you are proud of their courageous spirit. And so stand by your friend, stand by your family member and just listen. Sometimes you just need to be and just listen. Sometimes it's just a hand on their shoulder. Sometimes it's not even saying anything. Sometimes you just have to listen, not say anything. And I remember for myself, for the detective, as an adult, when he said to me, when she said to me, she said, we believe you. We trust you. And we're here to protect you. We trust you. We trust you. We trust you. We trust you. We trust you. We trust you. We trust you. That was life changing for me because it was almost as if they were speaking to me as an eight-year-old girl at that time. And I think that's something you can turn around and say to yourself, look in a mirror and say, I believe you. I trust you. And you will protect. I will protect myself. Maybe we don't have that friend who will stand by us and utter those words, but we can say that to ourself and build that trust and pride in ourselves. Because we don't have that friend who will stand by us and utter those words, because we're not solely victims. And we're not solely survivors either. We're victors. We're thrivers. And we can stand tall knowing that we're standing up to something that might not be popular to stand up to. Patricia, I have a question for you in the sense of what do you believe most victims don't know about their rights that they need to know and will be some of the greatest tools for them? And you've talked about that. And you've talked so eloquently about what a victim's rights are. But what do people typically miss that they really need to know? I think the number one thing is that their voice matters, that it is part of what happened to them. They are part of the legal process. They can partake in the whole court proceedings. So I think the number one thing, too, is to let them know that they have a right to have an attorney present with them. And it does make a huge... It does make a huge impact and difference in the court proceedings when they do have an attorney representing them. One of the things that our organization does for victims is we will cover their legal expenses so that they can have a right to that. They can have a right to be able to partake in the court process to be able to say why they think the bail should be higher, even in the beginning stages. So they have a right to all of those processes. Again, a right to a victim advocate. The victim advocate can support them. They can support them and walk them through this whole entire process. They have a right to restitution. They have a right to reimbursement of fees through their state, whatever state that may be. So I think the number one thing is they have a right to their voice. They have a right to survive. They have a right and a responsibility for that matter. Like some people will say, well, what do you mean by saying they have a right to responsibility? Because it's their right to know that what they went through. It was not their fault. It does not have to define who they are moving forward. I say to myself, I was a victim. I was victimized, but I'm a survivor and I'm proud of that. And that is my right. My right is to be able to say, you know what? I was victimized. That was wrong. My right now today is I'm a survivor. I know the aspect that surprised me is that if the other side comes to my door and asks for my testimony, that it's my right. That I don't have to tell. I don't have to tell them. That really surprised me. And you don't have to talk to the media either. A lot of people think that you have to go talk to the media. We also will represent victims if they have to go to media press conferences. We will help them. We will empower them. Things to possibly say. Things that they may reconsider not saying. And that's true. You do not have to. And most victims don't know that. Most victims don't know that they don't have to talk to the other side. And I think that that in itself is so empowering. That you don't feel like you're manipulated by the other side. And I just appreciate your stance in helping victims and walking by their side through crime survivors. It's amazing work. And I appreciate that you've dedicated your life to it. And wanting to use your victimization to expose that which is true about being a victim. But show the hope in being a survivor and a thriver. I appreciate that heart and your dedication. I want to thank you for listening. And thank you Elizabeth and again Patricia for coming and sharing. This is Martha Nix-Wade with A Quarter Blue. And we'd love for you to quote unquote like us on Facebook at Unexposed Secret. You can also like us at A Quarter Blue or Stopping Childhood Sexual Abuse. We have resources that we want you to reach out and take advantage of. We have publications that we can send you to help educate you to protect children. And we're also making a donation to help you realize that you are a gem in the making. That you're a diamond in the rough that is going to shine brightly out of that buffering that you've had through your trauma. So reach out to our website at acquarterblue.org. And you can also reach out and help support us financially by making a donation at acquarterblue.org. Thank you for being a part of wanting to expose the secrets surrounding sexual abuse. And helping protect kids and restore victims. We'll see you again or hear you again in a week. Thank you.