Paul Gilmartin on mental illness, addiction, and family trauma

I'm Vic Cohen and it's a fair question. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen and it's a fair question. It's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen and it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair quest, quest, quest. Well, hello everyone. This is Vic Cohen and it is a fair question. This is the show where every question, every question asked by me or if you call in, any question asked by you is a fair question nothing here is sacred. And if you're listening, I do want to let you know that you can give us a call. And if you're not listening, then really, I don't need to be speaking. That was really redundant to say that, wasn't it? And if you aren't listening, you should be listening. I'm telling you this psychically. The number here is 800-893-9562. Heavy breathers get an extra minute. That's 800-893-9562. So we have a great guest here and I'm going to introduce him in one moment. I just want to remind you that I was thinking about this. What is the premise? Why does this show even exist? And the reason is partially I'm dedicating this to my sixth grade science teacher, Mr. Brody. Mr. Brody gave me a B instead of an A because he said that I asked a stupid, dumb question. That's what he told my parents. In social studies, the teacher had said, when you go to science, I want one of you to ask why Aboriginals or someone have extended stomachs. So I took it upon myself to ask that question in the science class. Mr. Brody was not pleased because he felt it was off subject and he penalized me by reducing my grade. So this show, this series is dedicated to you, Mr. Brody. Fuck you. It's a fair question, Mr. Brody. There is no such thing as a question that is not a good question. They are all fair. The one thing that is not fair, that is actually spectacular. What a wonderful question. I'm going to ask you a question. What is the question? What is the question? What is the question? What is the question? What is the question? What is the beautiful transition? Yes. Thank you. Is our guest today, this evening, this morning, depending on when you're listening. His name is Paul Gilmartin. You may know him from his long list of Hollywood credits. He's so Hollywood. I'm surprised you didn't wear your shades in here to the studio tonight. He, you may know him from TBS dinner in a movie, half hour comedy hour on MTV, the late, late, late, late, Late Show with Craig Ferguson. And I'm sure there are so many others. Is that right, sir? That's, yeah, that's pretty much the big ones. And I guess Comedy Central presents. Okay. I just wanted to call you, sir. And what's really cool about Paul is that- There's nothing cool about Paul. Right. No, there isn't. Make sure you're right on that mic. How's that? I want that mic down your throat, baby. We want to know, because I want to really hear, I want to hang on every word you're saying. The thing about Paul, which is fascinating, I find among many things, is that he kind of has walked away from a lot of that, not everything, to pursue his real passion, which is pole dancing. No, that's not true. It's not pole dancing. I don't want to even think of him in a pole. Hey, by the way, if you are listening live, we are on camera here. And let me talk to Jeremy, our board operator. Hey, Jeremy, where can we, where can people- Do people see the show live? Just go to Ustream and search for Skid Row Studios. Okay, you can go to Ustream. That's letter U, stream, S-T-R-E-A-M, and look for Skid Row Studios. I'm the guy with no hair, and Paul is the man with lots of hair. That's how you can distinguish us. So, Paul, and we're going to get right into it. Excuse me, I just burped. And I am such a polite man. I didn't even hear it. You know, I kept it real quiet, and then because of my conscience and the way I was raised, I kept it real quiet. I kept it real quiet. I kept it real quiet. I kept it real quiet. I kept it real quiet. I kept it real quiet. I was raised that when you burp or expel wind, fart, you must say, you must apologize. You don't say, excuse me. And I was such a good kid and so brainwashed, I would do this when I was alone. Really? Yeah. That's really messed up. I'd be like, excuse me. There's no one there. But anyways, Paul created a podcast that has just gone through the roof, and it's helping literally millions of people. The name of the podcast is the Mental Illness Happy Hour. And it's the most downloaded iTunes self-help podcast that you can find. And there's a good reason for it because Paul, Paul is incredibly honest about his life story. And he has an innate ability to help his guests open up as well. He creates a safe environment. And he does have quite a list of really fascinating guests. So, it's a real excitement, exciting for me to have Paul here. He's also a really good friend, and he's just got a heart of gold. That's so cliched. He's got, I wanna take that back. How about a heart of zinc? I like it better. And it's not putting you on a pedestal. I don't wanna build you up too much. We haven't even started. You know, it'd be great. I would love to do this. I would never do it. But for the whole hour to just introduce you, and then say, I'm sorry, but we have no time left. But we need to do it again. We need to do it, cause I had a great time. I wouldn't be opposed to it. No. Okay. Well that's, oh, by the way, that is the secret on a good date. You let her do all the talking and guaranteed, at the end of the day, she says, I had a great time. Really? Yeah. It's my date secret of the week. Have you noticed that Jeremy? I'm just trying to wake him up. How's your Sudoku puzzle in the room? It's good. It's good. I'm all swung. Okay, good. Good. Keep it up. So let's start from the beginning. Really not even the beginning. You've had a really great Hollywood career, haven't you? And by the way, thank you for being here. Let me just- Oh, my pleasure. My pleasure. Boy, that's a hard thing to answer because in your mind, you always think about what you didn't achieve. You know, if I look at the fact that I was on, you know, a weekly television show for 16 years, yes, I would agree that that is, you know, quote unquote, quite successful. Mm-hmm. That I made my living doing standup comedy on the road and at one point was able to sell pretty good amounts of tickets. But I, you know, I want to obsess on the fact that standup no longer holds any interest for me. That, you know, I don't have any interest from the industry. You know, I can look at all of those things and say, say, oh no, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm up washed up has been, you know, I could, I could look at it both of those ways. And there are days when I look at it one way day, another day, I'll look at it in another way. So it really depends on what day you catch me on today. I'm feeling good about myself. So I'm like, yeah, I just successful run in TV. Um, but you know, the ego is a funny thing because it will shit on whatever it can. Even when I was working and I'd been doing the show for, I don't know, 12 years at that point, people would say, my God, you know, you're so successful, you know, that congratulations. And I would think, but my show isn't even listed in TV guide. It's an interstitial show. It's not that the movie is really what people tune in for. We're just the jackasses in the break. So, you know, I, so my ego would find a way to, you know, to put that down, to, to make sure. I didn't achieve any kind of success. I think that the ego's primary job is to keep you wanting so that you keep thinking about yourself because the ego cannot stand for you to think about other people. It needs, it thrives on you thinking about yourself separate from other people. Yeah. That's a, that's an interesting insight. I'm just curious. Is that, um, is that, is that these ideas, where did these ideas come from? I mean, is it from life? Is it from reading a lot about, uh, the mind? I, I think so. Um, support groups, therapy, um, reading books, you know, a book that I, that I read that changed my life is a book called a new earth by Eckhart Tolle. And that book is one of the most practical guides for living that, that, that I've ever, uh, come across. It's, um, it's a, a little bit new agey in some spots. Cause I kind of recoil when stuff, you know, starts to get into, you know, release your buttocks into mother earth, you know, when it starts to get into that. I'm getting turned on. I'm getting turned on. Now I want to read that book. But it's, uh, it's a, just a really profoundly, uh, smart book about how we stand between us and what, and what we want to be happy. And it, and it kind of shows you all the mistakes we make in believing the lies that we're grown up believing that if you get enough stuff, you will be happy. Uh, that's not true. It, that hasn't been my, my experience, you know, at the height of my earning power, uh, you know, I was probably spending a couple thousand dollars a week on musical gear and toys and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And, and I was at my most suicidal. Uh, when you say you're at your most suicidal, I mean, a lot of people, and I'm not trying to diminish it. Some people are kind of, they, they use that, that term loosely. I mean, I don't know, you know, this is a fair question. I mean, when you say you, you're at your most suicidal, you're at your most suicidal. When you say you were suicidal, were you like planning to kill yourself? Had you attempt, have you ever attempted to kill yourself? I thought about it dozens and dozens of times each day. I would picture how I would do it, where I would do it. I pictured myself, um, shooting myself in the mouth with a gun in my backyard. You actually, did you own a gun? Uh, no, but I had, uh, taken a course and I had gotten the permit to buy a gun. In my mind, it was, I was also starting to, I was at the worst part of my drinking. And I was starting to hear voices at night when I would go, go to sleep. Um, and, and so I thought our neighborhood was becoming more dangerous. So I was getting the gun to protect myself. But I think subconsciously there was a part of me that was planning my own death as well. But gun aside, I thought about suicide every day when I would fly to gigs. Um, if we would hit a turbulent patch, I'd be like, awesome, bring it on. Then I don't have to make a decision myself. Make it for me. Was never afraid to fly. This is where I'm grateful you never became a pilot and that I never was on that plane. You know, that's one of the perks of being suicidal. There's a couple of perks, but, uh, yeah, that's one of them. I was the opposite. I'm totally afraid of death. Yeah. And, oh yeah. I mean, I was terrified of flying and, uh, I'm, I hug people sitting next to me. I'm, you know, anytime this, you know, thought of a, a bump, I'm a little better now. Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's, that sounds like, uh, the real deal. Yeah. I think it wasn't. And I eventually saw, went to go see a psychiatrist. My wife nudged me, you know, she'd kind of been saying all along, you know, I think you should see somebody. I think, you know, I think there's something that wrong. And, uh. Would you say, um, now you mentioned the drinking. Mm. Um, do you call yourself an alcoholic? Yeah. And, and a drug addict, but, but I haven't touched either in about nine years. So. Right. I'm happy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and you follow the hot box. I don't smell any weed in here. That's really good for recovery, isn't it? Well, it doesn't matter, you know, one of the things that's great about being sober is I feel neutral about it. I don't, I, being around it, it doesn't hold any interest for me, but I don't dislike it. It's, it's not like, oh, there's people smoking weed or those, you know, somebody shooting up. I, I just. Any other drugs? Um, I'm like, it's, um, whatever you had, I would do, you know? Coke? Oh yeah. Heroin? It was never offered to me. I did smoke opium and that was one of the best highs I ever had. Was that here in the United States? Yeah, it was. I don't know where it came from. One of my friends in high school got it and we smoked it one night and it tasted kind of like perfume, I remember. And I felt like I was floating about a foot off the ground. It was just a, it was my first time ever doing opiates. It was amazing. How about acid? Yeah, dropped acid probably about 10 times. Almost lost my mind one time doing acid. In the emergency room type thing? I was trapped on a bus, a high school bus going to a ski trip for 10 hours. And this is when he was 40. You were in high school at the time? Yeah, not a good, not a good, yeah, in high school at the time, not a good idea to do acid when you're around other people that aren't on acid. It's not a good call. So you had a bad trip. It was a bad trip. It was a bad trip and I tried to shut my eyes and make it go away and, and then I just started seeing myself spinning down a tunnel and then I started to get really scared and I threw up and, and then I was like, okay, you, you got to fucking get ahold of yourself because you are, this could be, you could wind up like the guy from Pink Floyd that never came back. And, and that won't cause any more anxiety than thinking that. Yeah. That helps. But the, the one thought that I did have was you need to talk to people because when you, when you shut your eyes or you isolate, that is obviously making it worse. So I forced myself to talk to people and the weird thing is, is I was constantly hearing people calling my name. And so I'd turn around and, you know, nobody, nobody wanted to talk to me on the bus, but. No, no one wants to talk to the guy puking on the back of the, on the back of the bus having a trip. But it was an odd victory when we did finally pull into the parking lot at the, the ski resort 10 hours later. And I remember unpacking my stuff and sitting on the bunk bed and feeling mentally, mentally, strongly strong. Like I just endured a fucking onslaught that, that would have broken a lot of people. But I, I managed to, to get, to get through it. And so I felt a certain kind of weird victory. Did it, but it didn't, did it stop you from doing acid again? No, six months later I did it again. Nice. And that is the definition of addiction. Well, I probably more than twice, right? I mean. Yeah. Yeah. But nevertheless, continuing to go back despite, yeah, that's anything to, to make me not feel like myself. Now today I'm quite comfortable in my skin, but it's taken a huge amount of work to, to get to this place. And that's kind of what the podcast is about is, you know, all the battles that we have in our head, just an honest freewheeling discussion about what works, what doesn't, what we've come from, what we want, what, what scares us, what, what shames us. Um, a lot of talk about sexual, uh, because a lot of people's mental illness, that was the spark that lit their mental illness. And, um, I, I'm suspecting, you know, when we talk about sexual abuse, most people think of females being abused by males. But, uh, from just my general knowledge of this area as well, there are a lot of men who've been sexually abused. It's not talked about much at all. No. In fact, I have the, uh, I mean, I'm not talking about priest, you know, that kind of thing. Right. No. Or tickle me Elmo type stuff. Huge. Huge amounts of boys were, um, molested by a female babysitter. Uh, I have a, a survey on the website, uh, for the podcast, um, called the babysitter survey. And you can't believe how many people, uh, how many men and women, some women too were molested by female babysitters, but it's, uh, it, it, I, I think it is one of the last unreported, um, phenomenon in, in our society that you don't really hear about. And that is, I think when my, when my podcast is working at its best is when we're kind of shining a light on stuff that hasn't been talked about before, because certain things have been talked to death on Oprah and stuff like that. And I'd like to think because I'm a comedian and because my guests are mostly artists, a lot of them comedians, uh, there's a bluntness that we talk about it, that you would never experience watching Oprah. Uh, you know, I always felt like this, self-help genre was too populated by either the condescending kind of Dr. Phil or the new agey kind of, um, you know, crystals kind of thing that, well, the, the, the, my feeling on that is that basically, uh, media that you're, you know, your podcast, you might make some money, but it's not like, you know, you're making a fortune. You're probably, I listened to your last podcast and you told me you can kind of see the light where maybe, maybe this could be a way to make a living, not necessarily, necessarily even to get rich. Problem with commercial television is they need ratings. And unfortunately, first of all, this stuff isn't sexy. You know, it's painful. Yeah. And the other, and the other thing is, uh, a lot of people are, Oprah's not going to get into the real grit, you know, down into the ditches. She's going to talk a little bit about stuff and, and she's not going to crack a joke when you're, uh, about being molested when you're talking with somebody, because I'll, I'll crack jokes about it because I've been molested. And that was just during the show. And I'm sorry. One of the, one of the things that people like about the show is, is the fact that it, when somebody has lived, when somebody has been suicidal, when somebody has been molested, when they've experienced all those things, there is a shorthand that you can have when you're talking with somebody else who has experienced those things. That somebody who has only read about it in a textbook, can never, they can never have that language with that person because they haven't, I don't know, earned their keep, whatever, whatever you want to call it. Well, I'm curious about this because I, I sense sometimes, not always a little bit of a heavy heartedness when I, when like right now I feel a little bit of heavy, not a lot of levity. And is that, is that the norm would you say for you? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, you look sad right now to me. A little bit. Your eyes look like, I mean, Do I look tired? Maybe you're just tired. Yeah. I've always kind of had the bags under my eyes, so that, that could be it too. But no, I've been in a great mood today. And I know cause you're on Skid Row Studios. It's a fair question with Vic Cohen. It, He just blows by that part. I do tend to, I do tend to go for the heavier subject matter. I don't know why that is. I've always been drawn to it. I've always been drawn to that. Maybe because I was raised in a household where things were not talked about. And I feel an urge to talk about the elephant that's in the room because it drove me crazy. My parents had no affection for each other and it was never addressed. Let me ask you this. I'm just curious about this. Just go back for one moment. Because not to be defending your parents, cause obviously I know shit about your parents. Is there a possibility that they did accept you? Mm-hmm. And they expressed affection towards each other. It just wasn't openly expressed. Is that really what you mean? Or you don't believe even behind closed doors? No, no. My mom would complain to me about how much she couldn't stand my father. Right. And then again, we get the, what we call, covert incest. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's the newer term for that. So you kind of step in and become the husband. Yeah. Become all the things that the husband either wasn't or didn't want to be or couldn't be for your mom. Yeah. And it makes you feel important as a kid, but it also really fucks you up in the head. That's another thing that we talk about on the podcast. And I like it because I can talk about it with a fair amount of authority because I've lived it. And I like it because it helps other people. And then it makes my experience something that's good. There's a silver lining to it. And I think that's kind of another thing that the podcast stresses is to get help, open up, talk to other people. And by doing that, your experiences can go from being just completely bad to something that actually has something not only good to it because it can help other people, but it can make you feel less alone and it can help you bond with other people. Because there's nothing like talking with somebody who has had a certain, a similar experience to you. You and I, some of the conversations we've had about our moms, those are conversations I could not have with somebody who has not had a similar relationship with a mom. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. It creates a place of safety. Yeah. And the more open one person becomes, the next person becomes more open and it continues on. And I have noticed that. And I like that you're referring to your podcast, but I also don't want it to become a diversion in any way from really getting to know you. Sure. If that makes any sense. Yeah, absolutely. Because I really, and again, your podcast is a mental, why don't you say it? Mental Illness Happy Hour. And it can be found on iTunes. On iTunes or you can go to the website, mentalpod.com. Or you can go fuck yourself. Yeah. But wait for the rest, the show's over. Yeah. And if you can fuck yourself, you probably should be. Yeah. That's what I'd be doing right now. I wouldn't be talking to you. Do you, mental illness is a word that, or a term that's used very liberally. Mm-hmm. Do you consider yourself mentally ill? Yeah. And is that because what, I don't consider myself mentally ill in terms of what we thought of growing up a mentally ill person is. But I live with a mental illness. I live with depression. If it's not treated, it gets really, really ugly. And, that, what is that other than an illness? Yeah. I mean, my feeling is, because I get depressed at times. Mm-hmm. And the challenge is that someone on the outside might see you walking around doing your thing and go, you're lying. Or not so much you're lying, but you're, how do I know? You're really, I mean, like not that you need to prove it to someone that you're feeling down or, and I know depression is more than feeling down. Are you saying that there are people that do it for the attention? Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. I think that's a good question. Do people really do it for the attention? No. What I'm saying is that, that, well, there are a lot of people who say, I'm so depressed. And it's become synonymous or, or it's been an exchange where you say, I'm sad. Right. So when someone's truly depressed, Yeah. it's like, well, am I really depressed or am I just sad? I mean, everyone seems sad at times. Well, I think there's a difference between clinical depression and situational depression. And that's an important distinction. Situational depression is a very important distinction. It's a very important distinction. It's a very important distinction. It's a very important distinction. Situational depression is normal. That's just part of being a human being. Right. For me, situational depression is life. Every, every, no, I'm just kidding. That wouldn't be, that would be, if every minute of life is, that would be not be situational. Right. You don't get the job that you were hoping for. And maybe you're in a funk for a week or two weeks. Yeah. That's, you know, I'm, I'm sad. I'm depressed. But you're not eating. You've lost 20 pounds. You're thinking about suicide all the time. And you can't get out of bed. That's, that's, that's clinical depression. Okay. And you know, I think the frustrating part about that is, one who is depressed and anyone listening, you know, by the way, feel free to give us a call at 800-893-9562. I know we're talking about a lot of- Does that spell anything? It's, it, it's, you just, yeah, it does actually. It spells, eight, nine, no, it doesn't. We better say it again then. Yeah. 800-893-9562. It actually spells Skidmark Radio. That studio is, that's what this used to be. So they updated it. So that's not true. 800-893-9562. I know we've been, the energy in the room here has been a little heavy. Yeah. I apologize. No, it's, it's, you know what? It's what we expected. I mean, I did, I expect we're gonna talk about some heavy stuff. If for any reason you want to kill yourself listening to the show, please call Suicide Hotline. I never thought I'd be saying that during, it's very upbeat. Oh, that's the other thing I was listening to. I was listening to, I was listening to a podcast. I was listening to a podcast. I was listening to a podcast. I was listening to a podcast. I was listening to a podcast. Oh, that's the other thing I was listening to Paul's show. And he talks about he's, he does a lot of wood work and he said he's giving away a cutting board to, I think there's like a lottery. He in some ways doing it. And I was just thinking to myself that here's a guy who's dealing with a lot of people who have cutting problems. The one thing you don't want to probably giving them as a cutting board, you're really enabling. They need a space to cut Vic. Okay. Everybody needs a place to do their thing. You know what? I wasn't even thinking about that. Good point. Um, you talk a lot about your mom and you've talked, we've privately talked about it as well as here. Is there anything else to talk about? Well, my question is at what point do we move on? You know, are you saying I haven't moved on? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's not just you others, but do you feel like you've made peace with your mom and are at a place where you don't feel victimized by her? Absolutely. I feel no anger towards her. I feel no, um, um, I'm not mad at her. I feel compassion for her, but a part of the process was having to feel compassion for what I went through. I would never allow myself to do that because I would say other people had it worse. Other people had it worse. And I never looked at the, the fact that I felt used by my mom. Can you get into that just a bit? You know, because those who don't know your story are, I'm sure listening, wondering like what was going on with your mom that, that obviously made, affected you. There were physical boundaries that were, that were crossed that were, um, creepy. Um, she took my temperature rectally until I was like seven or eight years old. Um, which, uh, I remember at the time thinking this feels weird to me. And I never mentioned it to anybody until, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, she used to grab my ass until, and tell me how cute I was until I was about in my twenties and in therapy. And I, and I asked her to stop doing that. Um, there were, there were a lot of incidents where if you looked at them isolated, you would say, well, I'm not really sure that, but when I finally looked at the pattern as a whole about a year or two ago, that's when I finally went, wow, I don't feel hurt. I don't feel heard. I don't feel like she has ever listened to any of my requests to, Hey, would you not do this? Would you, you know, you would think like if you, if you said to a parent, would you know when you grab my ass and tell me how cute I am, it is really inappropriate and it makes me feel unsafe. You would think that that parent, if they were really listening to that child, they wouldn't do anything that comes close to that again. Well, I think that's, I think that's the thing that I've been thinking about for the past five years. My mom would continue to do things, treat me like her sexy husband, you know, she'd call me up. Hello, Mr. Gilmartin. This is Mrs. Gilmartin. You know, she would do that and I would ask her to stop and she would do it again and again. And then, and she would always make me feel like it was, I was being dramatic for requesting these things. Like she had done nothing wrong. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's the thing that's so important for people listening is that, you know, the new, new definition of incest is not necessarily physical contact. And I think what you're describing could be really crazy making because it's coming off as love and you're not really being, you're not, you know, your genitals aren't being touched or you're not being forced to do any sexual act. So it sounds kind of like, not a big deal. Right. But here you are, here you are later in life. And this is only two years ago. You're, you're saying you, you've discovered this, unearthed it. I did. And, and the, what allowed me to do that was going to support groups, going to therapy and not ignoring what I would feel in my gut. And the thing that really kind of broke it open for me was last Christmas. She, she sends me this box of stuff every year, things I've said, I don't want, things I've asked her not to send stuff. She bought for other people, just junk, just a box of junk. And every year that box arrives at Christmas time and I get a little kind of knot in my stomach and I have no desire to open it, but I know I have to. Sometimes I'll open it a month after Christmas and 99% of it I put on the curb. I finally, last year I looked at how it made me feel and I went, I don't feel heard. I've told her that, you know, I don't like this. I don't like this stuff because for the longest time I would just go, Oh, you're a fucking, what a, what a fucking baby. What a first world problem. Your Christmas presents aren't good enough. It wasn't about what I was getting. It was about not being heard. And so I began over the, over the last year in, in my interactions with her, I began to see how I was kind of an object to her that she would get what she needed from, from me. And I began to notice the long, the longer I was around her, the more excited she became and the more tired I became. And I began to, and how I didn't feel like she was hearing what I would say. And she would push me to the point where, you know, sometimes I would have to yell, you know, about her not respecting something or letting something go. And I remember I woke up one morning and she, I was staying with her and I walked past her bedroom and she was standing there. And I was like, oh, I'm going to go to her bedroom. And she was still asleep. And I remember, and I thought to myself, I hope she never wakes up. And I felt like a terrible person for thinking that. And then I thought, no, that's, there are no bad emotions. There are just unhealthy ways of expressing them. Well, also, I think that I'm not in control of my thoughts and it's really my actions that say what's going on. Right. And we all have dark thoughts. I mean, that's being human. And I don't feel bad that I thought that. I thought. And then you snuffed around. Two minutes later. I think how sad it is that a mother has a child who feels that way towards her. She had a very, very tough childhood. She was abandoned by both parents, left to live with a relative who was an alcoholic. I have compassion for her. I think she did the best that she could given the circumstances. So I don't, I don't hold any anger towards her. And I've, I've come to a place, Vic, where I have compassion for her, but not at the expense of compassion for myself. And that involves me cutting contact with her for about six months. And now I'm just corresponding through letters because that feels like I can kind of protect myself and not be overwhelmed. And that's a great place to be at because I feel like I'm, I'm giving as much as I can give to her. I used to give to her more than I had to give. And it was false. And it, and it made me crazy. Well, just a reminder, as you mentioned earlier, you're a married man. Right. And so I suspect that you basically had two wives for much of your marriage, you know, with the mom and, and your actual bylaw wife. Right. That's a hard thing. Yeah. If I had given my mom as much contact as she wanted, but my, my wife, very early on in our relationship said, you know, here's a, here's a boundary. If you want to be this guy that is at your mom's beck and call and goes to lunch with her three times a week and does this, find another girlfriend because I don't like the way your mom treats you. I think it's creepy, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And she's been pushing me for 20 years. She's been saying, I don't think your wife, this is, yes, she's been saying, I don't think your wife is the same person that she felt with what your mom has done to you. And I had a big breakthrough about six months ago where I finally allowed myself to think the unthinkable, which was my mom tricked me and she used me. She got, there were situations where I didn't have clothes on that didn't really seem necessary. That felt, didn't feel right to me. If it had been one, you know, maybe I could, you know, maybe I could say, ah, but when there's a half dozen coupled with all the other things, I finally allowed myself to think that thought. And, and I went to my wife and I, and I started crying and I said, um, I'd always had this fantasy. I did. Have I told you this? I always had this fantasy when I was like from first grade on that I would go to an older girl on the playground and I'd wrap my arms around her and I just sob. And I never knew what it was that I wanted to say. And I, you know, as I got older, I was like, okay, I didn't feel mothered enough. I wanted, you know, somebody who was more nurturing, but I never knew what it was I wanted to say. And when I went to my wife, those words came out and I started crying. I said, she tricked me. She used me. I was a good boy and I didn't deserve it. And I just started sobbing. And my wife said, I've been waiting 20 years for you to say that. Now I'm looking at you and you still seem moved by this. I still seem what? You look moved by it. Am I just misreading you? I mean, it feels like, it feels like it's still like fresh to some degree. It, it does. I feel like I've processed it. It, it was raw for about two months. It felt like I had a hole in my chest because in many ways it was like the person who I had to imagine my mom was, but really wasn't. I had to accept the fact that that never existed, that I had painted that picture to protect myself from going, oh my God, I'm being raised by a person who has kind of predatory instincts towards me. Let me ask you this. I'm just curious. Is it possible that maybe she was doing this subconsciously or, you know, it wasn't. I think it probably is. Because I think a predator is more someone consciously seeking prey. Right. But when you, when you are feeding off of somebody with, with, with the kind of a narcissistic point of view of you don't really care what that, what that kid is experiencing. And you are ignoring all the, you are ignoring all the signs that say this kid is shutting down this, you know, this kid looks, does not look comforted. When you ignore all that stuff, you're, I think you're only left to assume that this person is so wrapped up in what they need that they can't see that. That, that's what I'm left because I, my mom has a good heart in many ways. She's extremely generous with her money. She's always, you know, worked with poor people. She taught illiterate people how to read. You know, she works with charities. She, she's a giving person, but I think she's just kind of emotionally was so battered as a child that I filled this need for her. And she didn't know it was, she didn't really know any better. You know, I'd like to think she did, but then maybe that would make it worse. Because then it would be like she was, she didn't care. Yeah. What I'm loving about what you're sharing is, first of all, it's like we're having an intimate conversation here. And the good news is that others can listen and benefit. I mean, it takes a lot of bravery to share this kind of stuff. And the reason I say that is because you're so tied in with your mom. It's only been two years that you've discovered this. Is there a sense of betrayal that somehow you're telling secrets? About your mother and that, and you may lose her love as much as you kind of are repelled by it. That's a great way of putting it. That's always under the surface. That is, it used to be the main layer. What was the main layer? You're betraying her. Yeah. You're going to lose her love. You're a bad son. You're throwing her under the bus, even thinking those things. And then saying those things, you know, I would really feel that way, but I've shared it with enough therapists, support group members, and especially support group members who are female and moms for them to give me feedback. When I tell them this is specifics for them to go, no, that's fucked up. You know, she should have, you know, done this or that or this or that. And, and I don't, my goal was never to demonize her. My goal was for me to be comfortable for me to know what the truth was so that then I can fucking move on. This has been weighing me down for 49 years. And I find, I feel like I finally got into a place where I'm free of it and I've never been happier. I mean, the last six months have just been so great. I'm in therapy again now, and we're doing EMDR work, which is, seems really fucking weird. I don't know if you know anything about it, but it has really helped me. It's really helped me. In like 30 seconds. Can you explain EMDR? It's, they believe the thoughts and memories are tied in a neurological way that if you do this thing called eye movement, I forget what the DR stands for, but. Rapid something. But basically the therapist will have you like cover one eye and follow their finger with your eyes while they, while they ask you questions. So, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, so anyway, her for the podcast and it just devolved into, we're like, she wouldn't even allow me to mention that my dad was an alcoholic. He passed away in 06. And she really got into this argument. On the air? On the air. And I think- What episode number is that if people want to hear it? I'm sorry. It was not on the air. It was while we were recording. I've never aired the episode because it's just 45 minutes of her going into this irrational place of making a big deal about nothing. And afterwards I was like, you know what? I think she was afraid that I'm going to talk about the stuff that she knows I'm going to talk about. And she doesn't want that question to even come up. So she is going to- How would she know that? Because you guys had had conversations. Conversations. Or you just think that some kind of instinctive feeling within her? You know, I've said enough times that this is inappropriate. You know, that's inappropriate. It makes me feel like you're treating me like your husband, you know, such and such. I think that's got to be there. And sometimes she'll make vague kind of apologies, but she won't get specific. You know, one thing that's pop-up- I mean, I would say that if I were listening, and I am listening very intently, but if I were listening at home or wherever, I would be like, well, this guy, Paul, I mean, he's, maybe he's just a little oversensitive. I mean, I don't know. It was probably like the sixties or seventies and rectal thermometers. I mean, it was a different era. I'm just trying to play that voice just for a moment. I mean, it's not like she molested him. She never touched him. And if she did, boy, he would be- He would be talking about it. He clearly doesn't have a problem talking about what went on. So now having said that, I think your answer would be, but I want to hear it, but I want to guess first. It's possible. Oh, that's interesting. I wasn't expecting that answer. Yeah, no, I'm open to anything being possible. And I had to get in that headspace to go down this road, which was to say, you know, what did you really feel when those things happened? Because I would always block it by saying, she's my mom. She loves me. She's my mom. She loves me there. You know, there was, I had to open that door to go, okay, well, let's just see what it looks like. If I say, okay, that wasn't really love. That was some type of control or some type of whatever issue. How does that make me feel? And it just, it just rang true. Everything kind of fell into place and it began to make sense. Um, I don't believe that she did it consciously, but I had to, and I'm a sensitive kid. So I'm sure that there are other kids who could have been raised in that environment that it wouldn't have fucked up. You think you're fucked up? Oh, I think it definitely fucked me up, but I feel like I've processed it now and, and I'm, uh, I don't, I don't know what the, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, Um, use fucked up myself because it's a label and I don't know what fucked up is. Okay. Not to, you know, because I think it's shaming. Deeply sodomized. How about that? I like that. Yeah. It caused troubles. It sounds like. Yeah. I had to have compassion for myself. And there's a difference between having compassion for yourself so you can process something and sitting in something, playing the victim and wallowing in self-pity so that you can blame other people for all of your problems. And there's a huge difference between that. And a lot of people use that to never open that door to process something, to have compassion for themselves because they think it means you're going to have to demonize somebody else. My mom is not a demon. She's a, she's a wonderfully complex, woman who came from a really fucked up place who did the best she could. That being said, she did some shit that was inappropriate and I was a sensitive kid and it threw me for a fucking loop. I had to open that door to be able to process. If I'd never allowed myself to think those thoughts, I'd have never been able to process this. I'd never been able to cry, you know, when my wife was holding me and to say those things and to purge that. I felt like I was a demon. I felt like I was a demon. I felt like I was a demon. I felt like lighter the next day. I went to play hockey the next day, Vic, and my body felt different. My joints felt looser. My muscles felt more relaxed. I had more energy. It's, it's crazy. Yeah. I mean, it's really beautiful. Yeah. And, and, and what I, what I would say also, and you can tell me if you agree with this, that when it comes to the kind of abuse you're describing, it sounds like if one feels it's true, if it's kind of true and almost cellular kind of feeling that's, then, then it's probably true. Absolutely true. And there's no urine test for this. You know, we can't take a blood test and, and, and that's what makes it so, I think, tricky and also for a victim, you know, like you're, as you're describing, I believe you were, it's, it's, it's painful because, you know, you might go on crazy, right? That's probably how you felt. Yeah. And, you know, a therapist would always say to me, you know, kids don't, the kids don't go to that. Kind of sexual place automatically, you know, a feeling sexualized that, that, that's not like, why would you make that up? Why would a child make that up? Were you hypersexual at a young age? Yeah, I was. And do you think that you can attribute it to the sexual energy of the home? You know, it makes sense. You know, I've, there's other stuff that I've, that I've shared with therapists that, that happened. And, I've had two therapists both say, I would have reported it to child services. And one said, I would have had you removed from the home. And the second one said, I don't know if I would have removed you from the home because you would probably be going someplace even more fucked up, but I would definitely put your case in the system. Would you say that, you know, as we revealed earlier, I would say reveal, that sounds very Geraldo-like, but as you shared with us, you've had, you're an alcoholic. Would you say you were or are? I am. Okay. You are an alcoholic. You're sober. How many years? Nine. Okay. And you, we'd say you are, I was, I was getting confused, like are or were, you were, you are a drug addict. Yes. And. I'm a sober drug addict and alcoholic. Okay. And you know what? He's got the name tag on. I missed it. That would be a weird name tag, wouldn't it? I am Paula. Um, um, so do you, do you attribute a lot of that to this childhood stuff with mom? I, I don't know. You know, alcoholism runs in my family. Uh, 90% of the males in my family tree are alcoholics. Uh, so I think I'd have been an alcoholic and a drug addict, no matter what. I think I could have been probably raised in the best of circumstances and, and I'd still been a drug addict and an alcoholic. Have you ever thought about going, I know that your podcast is about mental health. Have you ever thought about going to a drug addict? Have you ever thought about going to a drug addict? Have you ever thought about going to a drug addict? Have you ever thought about getting an actual like degree? I've thought about it, but, um, I had just the thought of going back to school. And, you know, one of the things that I like about doing my show is that I don't have to have all the answers. I'm not the, I'm not the place for people to go to for answers or for help. You know, the tagline of the, uh, one of the taglines of the show is it's not a doctor's office. It's more like a waiting room that hopefully doesn't suck. And that's, I'm comfortable with that level of expertise. Right. And if you're just joining us, although I think that's impossible if it's a podcast, but if you recall, if you're listening live, I'm talking to Paul Gilmartin, who has a, um, just a huge show on, uh, mental health. It's called the mental health happy hour. Mental illness. No, it's not. It's called the mental. Fuck, I better go change it. The mental illness happy hour. And, um, that's, there's a, on the website and I think maybe, I don't know where else I went. There was a station wagon. Was that a replica of a wagon you had as a kid? It looked a little older than you. Yeah. That's like a 60 station wagon. And I, when I was trying to think of, of what would be an appropriate logo for the show, I thought, what about a 60 station wagon, but instead of luggage strapped to the roof, it's a gigantic prescription pill bottle. And so that's the logo for the show. Right. Although you're never, there was no drug taking on the show, just in between before and after. Right. So, um, are you surprised with this? Are you surprised with the success of, of the show? I am. I am. I knew that there would be, um, a group of people who would connect to it and connect deeply because they're, like I said, they're metal health and the battles in our heads. Nobody has ever done it publicly in a way that like when you and I talk, you know, about our stuff. Yeah. You never see that on Oprah. You never hear people, two people swapping dark jokes about. Well, we all have dark secrets. Right. And, you know, I think for me, what's really important, one of the things I've learned is that we all have a shadow and that's an old idea. It's not nothing I made up. And I think the hardest, one of the challenges in life as a human being is accepting and embracing the shadow. Absolutely. And I think so many of us, um, I'll say for myself, I don't want to speak for, for all of us. I'll speak for me and Jeremy and the, I got his head to look up. It was very good. Got out of a Sudoku game. I don't even know if I'm saying that right. Sudoku? Yeah. Sudoku? He's jacking off onto a pizza, which I find odd. Yeah. That's a tradition. Is that the seventh topping? Yeah. We eat that afterwards. It's really, and it's delicious. I must say. He had a lot of pineapple for breakfast. That supposedly helps the taste. Wow. We've diverted quite a bit. Um, I was going to say. But that's the kind of stuff that we will do sometimes on the podcast. Yeah. We'll drop that. We'll go, you know, 10 minutes after somebody, you know, talking about the most painful thing of their life. And that's what I, that's what I thought was missing. Um, which is why I created the show. Yeah. Oh, I think it's great. It's a really great show. There was, there was something I was going to say and I totally lost the thought. Um, do you remember what I was saying? Um. Anyone at home? I'm listening. Nobody's home. Yeah. I mean, we're almost, uh, Hey Jeremy, um, hold on. Can we go a little past 11 or do we have to wrap this thing up right at 11? Oh no, you can go a little past. Would that be okay with you, Paul? Yeah. Okay, great. Cause, uh, I want to get as much as. Do you want me to, to, to tweet to, uh, uh, followers and see if anybody wants to call in? That would be great. I would love that. Okay. How many followers do you have? I don't have that many, but they're, they're pretty passionate, uh, listeners to the show. You know, I know your number one follower. Um. Your mom. Your mom. She's like, fuck him. Fuck him. Enough of this. Well, um, yeah, the honesty, I think, oh, I was talking about the shadow that we all have that. And I think where the shame comes in, in my life is sometimes saying, oh, I, that's not right. You know, that's not civilized or that's not human. Like, you know, there's some, and, um, no, it's, it's called being human. And I also think that. I also think that thoughts are just thoughts and actions are actions. And the beautiful thing is that we make the choice if we're somewhat mentally sane. Uh, that going back to your thing about the shadow, uh, I absolutely believe that wholeheartedly. And I think for us to find out what our shadow is, we have to fully explore all of, all of the stuff that's happened to us and find a way to be at peace with it. And then I think it's possible to. To, to be comfortable with those parts of ourselves that, that we don't like. Oh, by the way, um, just for those of you listening, uh, in the podcast version of the show, when I said to Jeremy, is it okay if we go past 11, that will make no sense to you. But what I was asking him is if we can go past the hour. And, uh, and he said that would work. He's our board operator as well as the owner of this joint. He's got a lot of responsibilities, the boss. And, uh, and then thank you, Paul, for sticking around a little longer. Yeah. All right. Now the number. The number here, um, for anyone listening, 800-893-9562. Uh, Paul's mom, if you're listening. 800. 800-893-9562. I would love for you to call in particular. We can have an explosive few minutes. Oh, wait, here she is. I think we've got line three. Is it? Okay. Hello? Is this Paul? How dare you? I just tweeted it. So let's see if anybody, uh, if anybody calls. No, I'd love that. So, um, one thing that we, you know, addiction, it's to me, the addiction is, it's never about what it's about. Right. You know, there's something going on. It's just, that's where some people choose to go. Right. Like for you, you went to drugs and alcohol. I'm too scared of dying. So if I had to say I had it, my choice of between two would be to, uh, pleasure myself. Mm-hmm. Or masturbate. Right. Pleasure myself. Pleasure myself. Doesn't mean rub my feet. Yeah. And because I was too scared of dying, you know, of, of drugs. Right. I said, you know, like they've got the thing that says, you know, there's the eggs in the pan and it says, this is your brain on drugs. Right. If they had a guy masturbating in that pan, I'd be, I would have never done it. I was, I totally went for it. You know, I mean, I was really scared. And, um, so when I just, um, one kind of little bow I want to tie on this thing that's been in my head. Okay. With the mom. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, and for the surrogate parents, you basically, for the last two years, you, I, I would say you've gone through a divorce. Um, hmm. Is that how you look at it? No. Um, I, I look at more of, I have, I have decided how much of myself to expose to a relationship that is oftentimes painful. Um, my, my mom can have really kind of drastic mood swings and go from being a father to being very loving and lavishing praise to being very kind of critical and argumentative. And it's hard to feel safe around her. And so I had to get to a place where I looked at, because you don't want to go, I'm a 45 year old dude and I don't feel safe around my mom. But I actually told her the last time I stayed with her, I said, mom, I know that you want more than anything for us to be closer together, but I don't feel safe around you. You were so, sometimes you're so mean and the things that you say and the things that you do, I just, I don't feel safe around you. You know, I was just thinking, you don't have children, right? No. Do you think that that part of the reason is because of your own childhood? I don't know. I don't know. I was told when I was very young that I wouldn't be able to have kids because I had my- Because you had no game? My- My thoughts hadn't descended at the, and so I had an operation to have them lowered. And so the doctor said, and I remember just feeling like all the fucking blood leave my body when he said that. Just like, oh my God. So maybe a little switch flipped in me at, I think I was 12 and that happened at 11. And maybe I just threw that idea out the window then. But I've never found myself longing. Yeah. To have, to have kids. Well, not- Fleeting moments where I'm like, oh, that'd be so nice. But- Well, this is gonna sound really new agey, maybe you're very psychological, but like, you know, nurturing that child in you seems to take up a lot of time and energy. Yeah. I think, Vic, I think I knew I'd be a shitty dad. I think I knew that I'm a lot like my dad and that I'm just too selfish to want to give up my hobbies and, and all that. Cause my dad was just not there. He was there physically, but he was just checked out. This is interesting and not, maybe not so coincidental that, you know, here we've been talking for nearly an hour and I've never asked about your dad. I've been wanting to and thinking about it. You finally bring him up. You did have a dad growing up, right? I did. And he was kind of there until I was about nine or 10. And then his alcoholism really started to kind of get worse and he pulled away. And I, and I kind of, I didn't really understand what was happening. And my mom told me later that she told him, I don't think you should be physically affectionate with him anymore because with your drinking, I think you're going to molest him. Ah, irony. Yeah. She wanted you out of herself and she got it. Well, I would be like- Yeah. I'm lying if I didn't say that that's, you know, the first thought that popped into my head was, you know, boy, was she projecting. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. That's really interesting. What did your dad do for work? He was an insurance executive. And one of my favorite things used to be is up until I was about, I don't know, like eight or nine years old is when it'd be time for bed, he'd carry me up to bed. And I remember we, you know, my bedroom was on the second floor and we'd pass this part of the stairs where the roof got, the ceiling kind of came down and I could touch it. And that was my little kind of routine. He'd carry me up to bed and I'd touch that little part of the wall. And it was actually even starting to get a little smudged, you know, from my handprint on there all the time. And then it just went away. And I think I remember, I think he said, you're too big for me to carry you up. And I think I remember feeling disappointed. I don't really remember, but that when I think of any closeness that I had to my dad, it was that or when I would do well in sports, he would get very, very happy. Like if I pitched, and like one time we beat an undefeated team, I was the pitcher and I've never seen him so happy. He just came leaping. He was a coach, came leaping out of the dugout. And, you know, I was almost embarrassed because he was like, almost looked like he was dancing like a, like a spastic jig. It was, it was very weird. So you were, I'm just hearing your story. I mean, you really were abandoned by both parents. Yeah. Yeah. I got, I, I, I suppose I, uh, uh, I was, I never, never thought that because, you know, they paid for college. Where, where he, uh, same alma mater, Indiana university, you know, we were there roughly similar era. I say era, cause I don't want to put my age myself too much, but, um, Paul is a Phi Beta Kappa. And that means a lot. Yeah. I know it's, it's like, uh, I liked reading that. It was good. Um, he's a smart ass, but yeah, Vic, it, it, it, it, I was emotionally, um, kind of left wanting for a lot. But by the time I started smoking weed at 13 or 14, I didn't want my parents wanting an interest in my life. I suppose some of that was, was, um, you're from the Chicago area, right? Yeah. I suppose some of that was a reaction to, um, the pain that I felt and that I needed to numb out. But, um, so what do you, I'm curious now, here you are, you're forties. You've been through, you obviously done a lot of work on yourself, but these feelings just don't go away. So what, what is the, what are the coping mechanisms, the things that you do now to keep you away from, you know, I hear a lot of alcoholics say they've lost the urge. They lost the ism in a sense, but they know one's drink and they're back. So, but I'm just curious, like, has he, is the addiction, like, uh, the whack-a-mole game is often here. I mean, is this something you have to constantly be, uh, hypervigilant about, it's become less. Um, when I was first sober, it was definitely that way. And woodworking then became my addiction. And I suppose if you can have an addiction, it's one of the better ones to have because you get a butcher block table out of it. But I was also still checking out emotionally because it was just so hard to kind of go back into, uh, you know, going back into the past is so difficult because, um, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, you're afraid that you're going to come up with something that's a lie. And then you're going to be living your life based on faulty information. And so, and things are very confusing. You know, a lot of things are subjective, like the stuff we've talked about tonight. And so I would just feel exhausted when I would go back in and try to recall some of these things. Um, but I have to say it's been the most worthwhile things that I've done because I've now gotten a clarity on it and I'm processing this stuff. And I do feel like I've let stuff go. Like there are things that I don't feel. Uh, I don't feel anger. I feel zero anger at, at my mother. She just exhausts me. And so I protect myself through by only, um, communicating right now through mail. And it's a certain point I'm sure I'll start. Um, but what about, um, is it the support groups, the therapy that keeps you, um, solid? All of that. And I have to do it almost every day, almost every day. I have to stay in contact with people from support groups. Um, and it's not like it's a pain in the ass. I enjoy it. It, it lets, uh, it helps me let steam off. It, uh, helps takes my, my anxiety away. Yeah. And the other thing is, um, if I were a listener, I would be listening to this and going, this guy's fucking funny. I mean, I mean, he did a joke about the pizza, you know, but like, geez, this stuff is really, heavy. Yeah. My show can get really heavy. Forget about the show. I mean, I'm talking about you. Yeah. Well, the show is me. Right. You're a heavy guy. How did you, how, and you have had success in standup. Like it seems unimaginable almost. My act was pretty dark though. That was my way of saying, oh, you don't want to get dark. I'm going to fucking get dark. I know you don't want to talk about heavy shit. You don't want to talk about the elephant in the room. Well, how about this bit about, you know, what's your darkest joke? Um, there's a lot of debate about, you know, abortion. Where does life begin? And I would say life begins when you can see the fetus consciously avoid the coat hanger. Oh, no, I wanted something dark. Yeah, that's dark. That's funny. Is that, is that your favorite joke that you've written? No, no. Um, actually one of my favorite jokes and it's, it's so politically incorrect, but I just think it's a really clever joke was, um, I don't know if you knew that Miles Davis, this is true. He, um, used to beat his wife. I did not know. Um, but it was to a really difficult time signature. Oh, that's a fucking good joke. It's smart joke. That's the five beta kappa. Right. But, um, that's that, those were my favorite types of jokes because I knew I had crossed a line that I knew. I crossed a line with certain people in the audience and I loved pissing off certain people in the audience. And I think that was my way of saying you, you motherfuckers in the suburbs that don't deal with your shit that just sweep it under the fucking rug. And you think it's, you think it's just going to disappear. Well, here's 45 minutes of shit that you don't want to talk or think about, you know, and it wouldn't be 45 minutes of that. Maybe five or 10 minutes of my act would be that. But I think it's a really good joke. And I think it's a really good joke. I think it's a really good joke. I think it's a really good joke. I think it's a really good joke. It would be that kind of dark and aggressive and the rest of it was kind of the stuff they wanted to hear. But that five or 10 minutes, I loved doing that because they let you do that on, I'm sorry that you, because I interrupted you. You're saying you love doing it because, because it, that was, it felt powerful to me. That felt, felt like my, my way of getting back at the leave it to beavers in the, in the world and say, fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. Like a fuck you. I mean, I heard somebody say one time, standup comedy is really socially acceptable aggression. And I agree with that. Yeah. And I've heard some say it's, it's basically based in meanness. I don't know if I agree. I think for a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, there are other, they're like, there's comics like Brian Regan, who I don't think is mean. I think he's, if anything, he's kind of mean to himself. You know, he kind of makes fun of himself, but my stuff was definitely pointed outward at, at other people. Listen, I want to, before. We didn't get a single fucking call that we, that I tweeted. We're going to read, no, no, we, we, the board's, unloaded, but I just turned them away because we are just so, yeah, I didn't want to, it's just all about pace. You take calls. And when you're in the middle of something, I mean, you've been so riveting that I, I, I refuse to take the calls. And I do want to apologize differently about my listeners. Now. I do want to apologize to Joe in Omaha and Cindy and Phil. I want to apologize to you in Torrance. If you're going to think of a, of a fake call, pick a better city than Omaha. It's such a really, Toledo would have been the other one. Peoria would have been the other cliche one. Steven. Well, my favorite one is Rancho Cucamonga. I like that one. That is a great, that, that town was born to be a punchline. Yeah. And Pacoima. Yeah. I just love those two. I have, I wanted to do something here that I've not done before, but I thought it would be fun to try with you. It's a fair question speed round. Awesome. Where these are questions that they're just kind of, they don't even be pertinent to our discussion at all. But I think they're all fair questions. Okay. You ready? Bring it. All right. Cue the fair question music. He's like, what? There is no fair question music. Okay. I was just kidding with him. Okay. So here we go. If you had, if you had to give up one thing, okay, Paul Gilmartin, what would it be? Never playing hockey again or never receiving oral pleasure? Never receiving oral pleasure. Because I could get pleasure in other ways. And I love hockey too much. I live, live for it. Okay. How about this? Give up hockey or give up your entire sex life. That means, especially with yourself. I guess I'd have to give up hockey because I'm going to have to give up hockey eventually. You know, I'll be able to have a sex life hopefully until I die. You're married, right? Yeah. And you have a sex life? Yes. I'm impressed. What part of a woman do you check out first? The ankle. The anus. The anus. Wow. You go right in there. Yeah. You have very good vision. I like that. This is a fit. And I think that is- I actually only- Do you mean the rect? Do you really mean the anus? I only meet women in well-lit places where they're already bent over. Really? Can I join you? Coffee shops with really low counters. I like that. And end of riff. Okay. And I, and this is another fair question, I believe. Have you ever taken too much change when you're, you know, someone gives you too much change? When you're at a restaurant or store and you walk away with it knowing you have been given too much change? It's a fair question. I don't think so. So you've returned it. Yeah. I usually do. If somebody gives me too much money, I give it back. But I also haven't been in the position where I didn't think I was going to be able to make rent. So I, I don't know how I would react. And also you were drinking during part of your life. We don't know. Sure. Oh, there's lots of shit that I did that was, you know, really bad. Way worse than taking too much change. Such as? What's the worst thing you've done that you can talk about? I used to drive, when I would come home from bars towards like the last couple of months of my drinking, when I would drive home from bars, specifically there used to be a bar in Panorama City called Bonkers at like... It sounds so depressing already. Oh, it was. Because there's nothing to see in Panorama City. It was right, right almost across from the Budweiser factory. Nice. And when I went... You went right to the source. And when I would, that would be the last beer I drank. Any beer but Bud. And Guinness was my, was my favorite. I would drive 105, 110 down the 405, blitzed out of my skull, just weaving it in and out of cars. Like gritting my teeth with an anger, like I didn't care if I collided with somebody. You thought the 405 was the speed limit. It was like, it was like a video game to me. And, and, and, and I was, I was just... Gambling with other people's lives. You never got an X on it. Because I didn't care if I died. Right. You know, that's, that's pretty shameful. Yeah. Did you get a DUI? Never. I've never got a DUI. Would you like one? I'm just kidding. I don't have that kind of power. That is crazy. It's crazy. I was hoping for something bigger though. Yeah. You ever been in prison? Prison. I did. Not jail, prison. I went to jail once for about three hours for underage drinking. But so, yeah, essentially. How old was he? He was drinking with a six-year-old. And that's just not right. That will get you in jail for three, for how many hours? Three hours? Three hours. Your parents had to pick you up? No, we, we pooled our money together, bailed one guy out who then drove home and got bail money for the rest of us. But we were in the most dangerous neighborhood in Chicago. Glenview. That's right. It's the most white. 18th and, 18th and I think Wood. Bad. Is that Southside? Bad neighborhood. Kind of near the Chicago stadium. Nice. Nice. Yeah, near Westside. How old? I was 19. Man. Yeah. Lucky you're alive. It's amazing. You took some gambles. It's amazing I'm alive. It really is amazing. All right, we've got a few more fair questions here. While making love to your wife, and this is a fair question, have you ever thought of me? I think a more fair question is, have I ever not thought of you? I appreciate it. Well, the answer being? And if not, would you? Would I ever think of you? Like the next time you make love to your life? Will I think of you? Yeah, I would like you to think of me. Okay. Do you want me to think about anything in particular? You want me to picture you unsuccessfully combing your hair? No, what I want you to do, thank you. I've got lots of chest hair and I successfully comb it all the time. I want you to superimpose my face over your wife's face. And I know you're a creative mind. You can make that happen. You're assuming I look at my wife's face when I fuck her. That's true. There's a pill. That's a lot. That's a lot of... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When their pillowcase is over it. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably hard to see. Good point. Fair question here. Did you pleasure yourself while driving over to the studio tonight? That is a fair question. I did not. No. How about during the show? It's late. Define pleasure yourself. Yeah. Define pleasure yourself. Okay. We're almost done with these, but this is really why I got you in here. Yeah. All the other stuff was just to warm up. Sure. Can you name every woman you've ever made? I'd love to. No. That is a fair question. How about every man? There's too many. Actually, I've never had a... Aside from a older neighbor boy touching me when I was 10, I've never had a homosexual experience. Okay. That follows up with... But I wouldn't rule it out if it ever... If that... It ever became something that turned me on and my wife was okay with it. You know, I... Okay. Okay. Which brings me... Actually... The timing's unbelievable. My next question, what are you doing tonight? Just kidding. Just kidding. I... Have you ever had a homosexual experience? No, I have not. Have you ever wanted to? You know, it's interesting. I... Being human, this will kill me. Could we sound dorkier to a homosexual experience? Yeah, I know. Have you ever thought about fucking a guy? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Well, first of all, I would... If I had to be gay and I've thought this through, not that it's a bad thing, but if I were to be gay, I would do more of the oral thing because I don't like butts on a guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love a woman with a great rear end, but if you... And now I am publicly pegging myself as gay, but I don't... And interesting that you use the verb pegging. And I love gay... You know, the thing is, the truth is, Paul, I'd rather have, and this is, again, will make me sound very gay, and I don't mind because I'm very comfortable with myself. I would rather have a gay man hit on me than a woman because they have such fine taste. And I will have in the past. I've even teased... I've teased gay men in the way I will bend over in other mannerisms. Really? Yeah. I'm a bit of a prick tease, I have to say. Yeah. That is definitely a prick tease if you have no interest in getting together with them. No, I have no interest. But I think that, and this again is going to peg me, I think that anyone has the potential to be gay or have a bisexual experience. I probably wouldn't argue with that. I've never... I've never... I've never... I've never... I've never found myself picturing guys naked or... Or thinking that, you know, that guy's good looking or whatever. But I've never masturbated thinking about a guy. I think everybody pictures everybody, you know, old, young, male, female, without their clothes on. I wonder what that person looks like fucking. I wonder what their fuck face is like or, you know, whatever. I've been thinking about you like that all night. How can you not? You know what? Because your natural face is a fuck face. I don't know if I'm flirting with you. Or revolting myself. You know, my middle name is fuck face. That's interesting. You know, it's funny as Jeremy's shaking his head. Jeremy, have you ever been with a man? He's putting on his pants. Hold on. He's taking the cock out of his mouth. No, I've never been with a man. Have you ever thought about it? But I had a couple of gay guys last night that I think liked me quite a bit. Where were you? I was at this bar over at the Stilwell Hotel, this place called Hank's Bar on Grand between 8th and 9th. What are you doing? A promo for them? What are they writing? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. What are their hours? What are the house specials? Bar hours. Yeah, you had two guys that you thought were hating on you? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. These two gay guys. And I was smoking with them outside. Smoking some of the medicinal stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jeremy's very sick. So it's good that you're taking care of yourself. Yeah. All right. Well, you didn't do anything with it? No, no, no. Okay. Well, you know what? It's a compliment. That's fine. That's what I think, actually. I like that because if a gay dude likes you for whatever reason, that's a compliment, right? I think if anybody thinks you're attractive, how can you be upset? You know what the ultimate compliment is, Jeremy and Paul? If you can get a gay guy to fuck you up the ass, that is the ultimate compliment, I find. While he brushes your hair. Yes, lovingly. We're almost done. A couple more and we're out of here. Sure. All right. I just... What is... What is the quickest time it's taken for you to make love to a woman after a first meeting? Time elapsed before we started fucking or time I lasted fucking? You meet and then fuck. Not the longest love-making session. I would say 15 minutes. Really? Yeah. Wow. Was that after a stand-up show? Maybe a half hour. That's pretty impressive, Jeremy. Yeah. How long did you know that guy before you went down on him? What's the quickest you've gone between meeting someone and having sex with them? A day. A full day? 24 hours? Well, like a date and then... No, like you meet them and you have sex with them. Yeah. A day. Okay. Paul's got you beat. I've had one... Is that something to be proud of, though? Yeah. I do think so. Yeah. Yeah. So far... I'm unimpressed with Jeremy. He said two gay men hit on him and it took him a whole day to get laid. Not by the guys. Okay. Two more. Have you ever faked an orgasm? Fair question. No, I haven't. Okay. And finally, have you ever been on catch... How does a guy fake an orgasm? There's lots of ways to do it. Guys do fake orgasms. Yeah. I faked three during the show. Obviously, the woman would know, though, because then nothing comes out of her. But if he's got a condom on, you could do it. Yeah. And also, you can just go... Oh! Oh! That's... They're not going to sit and inspect. Which is the same noise I make when I'm moving boxes. Pounding boxes and moving them. Either one. Yeah. I think there are ways to fake an orgasm for a man. I heard one and I don't like it. I think it's disgusting. I didn't think about the condom scenario. That makes sense. Supposedly... I was thinking, you know, if you cum, like, you can't really fake that. Please, this is a classy show. We don't say that word. Oh, sorry. When you jizz bomb. Better. Okay. We say... Sorry. We say climax. Or explode. Or... When you spread her English muffin with your nut butter. That's beautiful. I love that. Yes. That's warm and fuzzy. Finally, and this is a fair question, Paul, Neil Martin, have you ever been on To Catch a Predator? I keep applying, but they keep turning me down. As the decoy? You're a little old for the decoy. I can't imagine how... The couple of times that I've watched that show... I just... The thing that I always focus in on is the five-second transition from them thinking they're getting their, you know... Yeah. Getting it on with a, you know, 15-year-old or 16-year-old, which obviously is their thing. They wouldn't be breaking the law if it didn't really turn them on. Yeah. That they're going from that to I'm arrested. What a fucking mood... Is there a bigger mood swing in the world than what that is? There's got to be. No, and it's horrible. And, you know, that show... Yeah. I mean, is it wrong that I root for the Predators? I don't know. Just a joke. I don't think there's any... Even Paul's shaking his head no. Went too far. I crossed my line. That was for you. You like to go dark. Actually, just to be clear, I don't believe in Predators, and I'm not rooting for them. That was just a joke. I know that. Okay. Just, you know. All right. We're going to wrap things up here. Paul... We've been wrapping it up for 20 fucking minutes. Yeah, I know. Let's go. Where's you... Tell everyone again where they can listen to your show. They can get it on iTunes. If you go to podcasts, just do a search. Actually, just in the search box, you can just put in Mental Illness Happy Hour. Okay. And you can also go to the website, which is mentalpod.com. You can subscribe? People can subscribe? You can subscribe through iTunes. You can also follow me on Twitter at MentalPod. That's my Twitter name. I think that's about it. Okay. Great. And obviously, yeah, you can follow Paul. And... Obviously, my Twitter following is really... What do you expect? They're depressed. Okay? You're not going to get a lot of activity from your fans. What am I... They're all in bed. My friends is launching a shopping site. And, you know, I said, I'll plug it on my podcast, but I'm not sure they'd buy anything except sleeping pills and nooses. Yes, that's correct. That's funny. All right. Well, I want to thank you again, Paul. If you want to get a hold of me, Vic Cohen, we're doing this show every Tuesday night, 10 p.m. West Coast time to 11. And then please subscribe to Vic Cohen's It's a Fair Question. It's on iTunes. You can also go to Skid Row Radio, Skid Row Studios, excuse me, .com, where you can listen to the show. I want to thank, again, the man in charge, the man who pays the bills, the owner. Thank you, man. The boss, Jeremy. Thank you for being here and doing a great job. It's a great setup you got in here. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. Yeah, he's got it. He does a great job. And thank you all for listening. It's a real pleasure for me and excitement to have the opportunity to connect in any way with you and really appreciate it. You can find me also on Facebook at Vic Cohen, V-I-C-C-O-H-E-N, or Twitter. And I'm just keep talking endlessly here. All right. Bye-bye. Thanks. We'll see you again soon. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair question. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair question. It's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. Cohen and it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair quest, quest, quest.