Steve Middleman on comedy, chin, and diet books

I'm Vic Cohen and it's a fair question. Hello and welcome to Vic Cohen's It's a Fair Question. You are listening to us live from beautiful, it is really beautiful down here. It's stunning. Los Angeles' Skid Row Studios. and the reason I call the show It's a Fair Question is because, well, on this show, there is absolutely no question that is ever off limits or ever too personal. Any question is a fair question. That's unfair. I'm warning you now, guest. Tonight I have a very good friend and a very funny guy as our guest. Yeah, thanks. This man, and he's a man, he's done stand-up on Letterman. He's worked with Steve Martin, Woody Allen, Vic Cohen. True. All true. All true. I did stand-up with Steve Allen. Steve Allen? Actually, I did Steve Allen. Wow. No, I did stand-up with... You want to hear a little quick... Not yet. Please, let me give you the introduction you deserve. Okay. Then we get to you. If I got the introduction I deserve, I wouldn't need the love from the audience. Okay. That's probably true. You wouldn't have chosen this. I never would have been here. That's right. That's a good point. Also, I had the pleasure, and it was a pleasure, to work with Steve in Reno, Nevada about two or three years ago. What was it? Was it Catch a Rising Star? Stripper's name, Reno, Nevada, right? Yeah. I actually went out with her. Yes. All right. I had a joke that I don't want to say because it's too dirty. I'm talking about Steve Middleton. Hello, Steve. Hey, Vic. Yes. So nice to meet you. Yes. So nice to meet you. Yes. Yes. Yes. So nice to be here. I'm kind of dyslexic. I think I'm in the Bowery right now. No. Oh, it's Skid Row. We're on the West Coast. That's correct. And you know what I love is Steve said to me two minutes before we were about to go on, he said, I'm going to fart. And we're in the tightest studio. You know, it's supposed to be fair question, not quoting statements. Did you fart? Did you? I don't think I did, no. No, you held it in? Sort of like, yeah. I used a Twizzler. Oh. Okay. I'm not sure how you used it. I know. I said I want to be nice and clean for corporate gigs. Oh, that's right. Okay. Speaking of which. Actually, they turn the air off. It's very hot in here. Yes, it is. If you need to take your shirt off, by all means, or pants, whatever you need. By the way, I'm wearing underneath, if I take off my shirt, I'm wearing, sadly, the name would be wife beater or guinea tea. Yeah. Is there a nice name for this t-shirt? No, it isn't. Why are you even wearing that? Because I was in all day. I was in all day like a comedian. I took a nice nap from like 4 to 6.15. P.M. P.M. Yeah. And I woke up and I didn't know what it was like outside. I don't even... But who wears those things? I was going to check the weather. It was not on cops. Like, I mean... I know. Like, and it doesn't protect your underarm from like stains. I wear one over my shirt and one under my shirt. I get cold. It's a nice look. I'm cold-blooded. Okay. I don't look it, but I get cold-blooded. If you need to take anything off, including that, feel free. And, you know, sometimes the conversations before the show, you're like, I try not to talk to the guests because you want to save it for the show. But you were telling me, I just want to go right into this because it's so crazy. Yes. I'm a single guy. You're in a relationship right now. Yes. Lovely lady. You were saying that you knew of a woman, a single woman who... Tell me what you told me earlier, just a few minutes ago, right before, again, we went on. It was a friend of my sister's. Well, I can't even... She's so nameless, I shouldn't have said she was... A friend of my sister's. No, we'll cut that out. We'll edit that out. Her plumbing was so bad. Her plumbing was so bad. The friend? Her girl parts? Yeah. That she actually, number two comes out where number one is. Oh. That's horrible. Jeremy, did you hear that? What? Is that a way to start? That's a way to start a show. Jeremy is out there in the single world. I mentioned the Twizzler joke, and I tell you this. Steve has a... His sister has a friend who... His sister has a friend who can't... Who... She goes number two out of Regina. Out of Regina? Yeah. I went down on her and got shit-faced. Wow. I mean, you had me tell that whole thing just for that setup for that line. No, but I can't... I do think I dated her. I do. Is she on J-Date? She lives in another part of the world. But this is true? I've never heard of such a thing. She volunteered. I never asked. I said, hey, where are you? Shitting from nowadays? You're like, you're shitting me. Yes. That is so disgusting. All right, well, let's get this show back on track. I mean, anything is back on track after that. Absolutely. For sure. That's true. Now, your credits are crazy. I mean, the amount of work you've done is insane. Yes. It really is. Yes. You know what you haven't seen? I've done like 50 commercials. Yeah. 50. Five zero. Five oh. That's a lot. Right. But were there any that were like Ronald McDonald where you could live on forever? Like, the money was... The money was so good? You know something? Hmm. I did very well in commercials. Yeah. I'm vested. I have a pension. I know I did a few movies and sitcom appearances, but I'm sure a chunk of that pension is because of commercials. Do you consider yourself in... What? Lucky? No. I know the answer to that. No. Do you consider yourself more of a stand-up comic or an actor? More of a stand-up. Yeah. I love stand-up. And I still love it. 20, 37 years now. It just added 10 years as I was saying that. But yeah, stand-up by far. Love it. Have you always known you wanted to do stand-up? In my teens, I wanted to be in radio. That's why I'm so much... I'm at home here in Skid Row. That's pretty good. Yes. I mean, for that... Top 40. You say it. We played all the hits all the time. I'm going to throw up. Anyway. You do do it well. Top 40. I love that guy. Hey, that was me. Did you ever do radio? I thought it was me. I thought it was me. I did it in school. And our school radio station, Brockport, Upstate New York, the signal was so weak, we couldn't even hear ourselves. Is that true? Yes. It was that bad. I bet on station. Yeah. I know. So I loved it. And then I lost my show on the school radio station. It was my major. And this was just 10 years ago. Yes. He's a very 30-year, 20-year senior or whatever. No. The school... Malcolm Lowry. I hate him. I hate him. The bastard. He was the GM. He was the GM in the school radio station. And he was a student. And he gave my show to a friend of his who was coming back to school who had already been a professional DJ on Long Island. Oh. That's the competition. So I said, why does he need it? I'm the guy that's never done it. I transferred here to do this. And there was a big to-do and I brought up a stink and he could have been voted out, but everybody was afraid. And everybody was afraid to vote against the GM because then they'd lose their shows. So I lost my show and I went, screw it. I love comedy. I'm doing comedy. That's what happened. Now, you've done over 90 TV stand-up appearances. At least, yeah. That's crazy. That's a lot of TV. I know. You know the nicest feeling I get? Not from you. Good. I'm not trying. I want to give you good feelings. Thank you. But the nicest thing sometimes, out of all the comedians out there, I've never had a good feeling. All of them. Somebody will come up to me and go, who the hell do you think you are? No. They come up to me and they say, you're my favorite comedian. It's the greatest feeling. You still get that. Once in a while. From people who knew you. Once in a while. You go, oh my God, Steve Middleman. Because there was a point in your career where you were like on, there weren't that many outlets for comics and you were right in the middle of it. When I started, there were... There were maybe two places in the reigning night house in Queens, which coincidentally was about a block or two from where I grew up, and Mustache Pete's in Jersey. It was the first two gigs. And they were so God awful, but there were no other gigs and you went, it was a big deal. How old were you? I started when I was 21, literally. December 16th, 1921. 1976. The summer before I auditioned a little bit, I got passed in the clubs, but I was going back to school, University of Buffalo. I transferred from Brockport to Buffalo. And believe it or not, I studied Tolstoy. That's how liberal University of Buffalo was. I had a Tolstoy major. That was your major? Yeah. My dad had a stroke. When he saw that, was your major? Yes. And I never felt, I forgave myself. And social security... Did he really have a stroke? Yes. Social security said, if you have 12 credits registered... I was going to quit school. They said, if you have 12 credits, you'll get like $160, $180 a month because you're a dependent of somebody who's disabled. Okay. So I said to the people at University of Buffalo, where I was a Tolstoy major, I said, well, is there any way I can do 12 credits on the road? And I'm in New York. I'm going to doing standup comedy. They said, I'll tell you, we'll tell you what? That a professor like, okay it. They said, you'll do 12 credits of writing your standup. You'll mail it to us. You'll tell us how it's going and we'll grade your standup. That's great. And for that, I had like nine months of like a comedy grant from our government. That's fantastic. And that's, that got me going. I got a small, I stayed with my sister. Moved in with her boyfriend. I basically had her apartment, which was walking distance from catch and the comic strip in New York. And then I had a roommate. I got a studio apartment and I split a studio with various performers. It was $2.25 a month. I couldn't, couldn't afford that. Who are you living with? Anyone we know now? Well, a guy who became kind of very well known in a rock world is Pat Benatar started a catch. She's brilliant. She's got a brilliant voice, but she did all these torchy songs. She was doing standup? No, they would say they have singers every few acts. Oh, okay. And you know, you are a great singer at catch. If people didn't talk during the songs and she would, everybody would stop and go crazy. So her bass player, Roger Capps, he was my roommate for a while. This comedian, Andy, I'm blanking on his name, reminds me of George Costanza. He was my roommate for a while. And I just split this. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. Now, do you remember your very first joke that you felt was really great that the audience responded to? Yes. My first time on stage, I killed. Because I did it, it was a speech class. And it was Orlin Terp and it was Potluck, whatever you want. It was a final project. And by then, everybody knew me and liked me in my class. And I just killed. I did five minutes. And I just, I killed because they were so nice. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. One time I did the Ratskeller. That was like, I don't know. The what? The Ratskeller, the school bar. Okay. Upstate Brockport again. And I bombed for four minutes. And then the fifth minute, I did a Nixon routine and I killed. Mm-hmm. But that four minutes, I can still remember how terrifying that was. Didn't stop you. Didn't stop me. I had to finish, you know, and I did the Richard Nixon routine. And I'm dreaming of a white. Anglo-Saxon Protestant Christmas. Just like the ones I used to know. With no kikes or kooks or guineas. No Niger spikes or mickeys. Just pathogirls and baby rebozo. It's my party. I know if I cry, if I want to. Anyway, there was Nixon. It's just crazy. It's so wild. It's like the fact that you even were in front of an audience where that would be current. I mean, it's a lot. That was 1975. That's amazing, huh? Or early 76. Yeah. And, you know, this is like not far after Watergate. And, you know, we were hippies in the mid-70s even. So a couple things I just want to follow up on. Yeah. We were talking about commercials. And I want to backtrack for just a moment. What's the most you ever made on a commercial? And that is a fair question. God. 100 grand? I bet you 30, 40. Not as much as you think. But those were back then. This isn't recently, right? No. After we had this big strike about. I think it was 12 years ago. And it was 15 years ago. Something like that. Right. I remember. Yeah. It wasn't great. We ended up after months. The strike actually hurt actors. And it's never recovered. Never recovered. Because what happened was. Yeah. The actors for commercial actors wanted more money. And the producers or the other side of the table said no. And they discovered these other people, these producers, that they could use non-union workers and pay them even less. Not just that. What they did is they farmed out a lot of the production out of state. They taped out of state or out of city. And they also had. They developed a way to bulk pay you. Where you used to pay per airing. You'd get a residual benefit. And then now you got like from one to five viewings. Five to ten viewings. It was diminishing returns. They just did. They had all these months to figure out how can we screw the actors. So bottom line is that. So. This was before all that. When the money was better. I think it was better at one time. Okay. But the most you made was maybe 30 or 40 grand. Probably out of commerce. For one day of work? S.O.A. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I did it. Name a product. I probably did. I did like four of them for Federal Express, which was great. And that's kind of what launched me. My first audition, I was so bad. It was like some fancy advertising agency in New York. And I was so bad. The talent person looked at me and said, is this your first audition? And it was like, oh my God. So. And then I landed my second one. Wow. And the guy loved me. It was Joe Settlemeyer and Patrick Kelly. Chicago? They moved. They were doing New York. Patrick Kelly went to New York. And he copied Joe Settlemeyer's style. And he booked me like seven times. And because Steve has a unusual look. And back particularly then, it was even more unusual. So you're very character-y. I couldn't help it. I used to, once in a while in my life, you know, like should I go into stand-up or not? There were a few times in my life where people literally pointed at me and started laughing. Without my saying it. We're just in public. Not on stage. Well, let me, let's get right to this. It's quite a life. Well, here's the deal. Yeah. I was the maternity ward nurse. Okay. I have, just to give you a sense of Steve and his comedy, why don't we play a little clip? Can we go to that first clip, please, Jeremy? And this is, before you roll it, Jeremy, just one second. I just want to set this up. That this is from a show that you say, Steve, turned your whole career around. Oh, it launched me. And can you set that up as to where this was and why it was so important? It was at the Copa where Scorsese videotaped the, or taped from Goodfellas. Is this true? Yeah, that's, well, that's the club, the Copacabana in the midtown Manhattan. Okay. Big time. Their cameras were there? Showtime? Well, Showtime, yeah. It was this big laugh-off. I didn't, I auditioned. What's the big laugh-off? What does that mean? It was a big competition among nationwide comedians. It was televised? In each city, yeah. Yeah. And it was on a million times on Showtime. Yeah. Uh-huh. And it was, I didn't get it. It tells you you're being persistent. I didn't even get through the auditions. And something happened where I was able to sneak into another audition. And after being rejected once, I got accepted. And then I kept making the cut and making the cut. Then I got to the finals, and that was the TV show. And you won. And I won. On that show was Eddie Murphy, Schiff, Mark Schiff. And Carol Leifer, Rick Overton, and myself. I closed, I killed, and from there it launched me. And Rick Overton we've had as a guest on the show. He's a great guy. So, yeah. Wonderful. For those of you who want to hear that interview with Rick, it's Rick Overton. I don't remember what episode it is, but it's right in the iTunes library there. So this is from that set, that comedy set. It was about a 10 or 12-minute set. You're not going to show, play the whole collection? No, we're going to play part of it. It's a very short part. Let's go with that first clip. I had sex this year. No, I'm kidding. I paid the guy. You notice some people's sex is everything? To me, sex is anything. Most guys think about having sex with two girls at once. For me, it's one girl twice. So, listening to that, you kind of come across as the lovable loser. Yeah, self-deprecating. Is that your style today? No, I have no style today. Honestly? Obviously. I opened up with a Twizzler joke and they think about my girlfriend, my sister's girlfriend. But as far as your persona on stage today, are you the same? I'm basically myself. Just sort of how we are right now. I'm just me. Okay. Were you you then? I was because I probably related to the self-deprecating. I felt that way about myself. Do you still feel that way about yourself? Doctor, that's all the time we have. Now you're avoiding me. Is that uncomfortable to talk about? No, I don't feel that way about myself. No. I feel like I'm a child. I am God. That's a big turnaround. That's a 180. How do you really feel, honestly? I'm God. I don't believe that. That I'm God? I don't. I think that you're... And it's okay that you're not really... You're kind of not wanting to go there. No, no, no, no. I don't feel that way about myself today. I don't like doing... Once in a while, it's fun. I think life is... I have a sense of humor about myself. I find the irony in the world and in my world. And I don't think... That's not... That was a bulk of me and how I viewed the world back then. And I don't feel that way about myself. I don't feel that way about myself today. And how did you feel about yourself back then? Oh, I was... This is 1981. You're 22? I don't know. You're in your 20s. 1981? I was 25. Well, I was 25. It was 1980. Yeah. Okay. I mean, who were you then in your head? I was very kind of naive about the world. I was very remarkably shy for somebody on stage. I hardly had a girlfriend until I was... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I maybe kissed a girl until I was 20, 21. I never got any of the emotional vitamins anybody would ever need from zero to the second I stood on stage. Nothing. Very little love. Screaming, maniac, maniacal parents. I always describe my parents... Remember the Waltons? We were the anti-Waltons. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There was screaming. There was beatings. There were yelling to the point where you break down and cry. And over and over and over again. I was broken. It was like... It was like... What do they call that? War, post-war traumatic... PTSD? Yes. Do you still have it? No. I don't think so. How'd you get through it? Lots of therapy. Lots of therapy. A humongous amount of therapy. Do you think that perhaps... You know... For a stand-up comic, the life is tough. It really is. I don't think so. Okay. Well, just go along with me on this for a moment. I would say there are challenges at times for a comic that aren't easy. Now, you may disagree, and that's why you do it. For you. I've talked to other comics who have a different feeling, and that's okay. Yeah. My premise is... I'll just get to the headline. Is that I think when you have such a tough life as a child, your tolerance to pain is so high that what others would consider to be painful, you don't necessarily. That's a nice point. Because you're so used to it. And actually, it's less painful than what you went through as a child. So, in comparison, it's actually peaceful. Yeah. I have a lot more peace in my life now. For a long time. I have perspective. Who was doing the beating? Mom physically, dad verbally. And my brother and sister, we all get along great. I'm so lucky. Great. What were reasons that you would be getting... Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. Great. I don't remember what I, because I was basically a good kid. I don't think I was a, you know, if I showed up late for a meal, you know, I'm sure parents, you know, maybe get nervous or something. I don't know, but I can't think of much, much else. I don't think what mischief I did back then. They were like, my mom was Mo, you know. In the Three Stooges. Yeah. My mom was Mo without the humor. My parents together basically were the Costanzas without the humor. Although my dad was very funny. They got my sense of humor from my dad. And my family, we could laugh. You know, the other side of it is comedy tragedy. You know, there was a lot of laughs too. So, so is, like, I feel like laughter is love. Yes. In my life. Yeah, that's nice. And I think as a child, I certainly didn't have that kind of tumultuous situation that you're describing. Yeah. But I will say that the greatest moments of love were through laughter. Yeah. I think it was the most, I think bonding. I think, I don't remember getting a hug till I was in therapy. And at the end of the first session, Alan Lefkowitz, the shrink, hugged me. And I was like, it brought up such a, an avalanche of pain. Because I went, oh my God, that's a hug. I didn't know what it was. And how old were you? 40. No, I was 20, probably 22, 23 maybe. Yeah. So we, it was a domino effect. I forget who was first. Either who went to him, who went to Alan Lefkowitz. Either Zwei Bell went first or maybe Richard Lewis who told Larry David, who told John DeBellis, who told me. The same therapist. He's had about 150, 200 comics in the last, we're still friends. What's his name? Alan Lefkowitz. He's in New York. And he's still doing it? Upper West Side, yeah. Great guy. Wonderful. And that's, that's really funny. Yeah. Yeah. He's had a million comics. Not just comics, but he's. Now, how does it feel? I'm just curious. Like you've got, oh, but wait, before I move forward though, I do want to kind of wrap this part up. The sense of serenity. The sense of serenity that you have as a man. I do. In life, further along in life. Pretty much. Yeah. How do you deal with the voices? Have they left or what tools have you learned to handle that? I think diminishing life perspective, choosing to have a nice, easier attitude about life. Knowing you won't get the hug from the audience. You don't need it anymore. You got to give it to yourself. Is that why you got in standup for a hug? Yes. How quick was that answer? That's a fair question. After everything I just said. Yeah, I'm sure I went for the love. I loved it. I was addicting. It's still addictive. Still love standup. Still love it. What is it you love about it? Well, right now it's, it's to say something clever or write something clever and, and bingo. You get an immediate feedback. Usually, you know, as long as you're writing. You're getting on stage soon after that. How do you deal with, how do you deal with rejection even today? Let's say. Next. Have you ever bombed? Next. You know. Bombing is subjective anyways. See, I'll, I'll tell you. No, it's not. You don't think so? No. If, if everybody else can smell it, you bombed. Pretty much. So how do you handle that? Next. I'll tell you why. Because if I, it's like an actor who gets an audition and they haven't auditioned in a while. And. They put everything into this audition. They're. Every word, every nuance. God bless them for preparation like that. And then they do it and they leave and they go beat himself up. Like, oh, I didn't get it. I didn't nail it. Oh my God. I didn't get it. And everything is on that moment and that audition. Everything. Because they're not doing it much. They're just having that one audition a month or every other month. Such a great point. Everything's played up. You are so right. So if you audition, if you're performing all the time, even a number of times a month, and you've done this enough, you know, I've done thousands of shows. I can't go and look at, it's like a little flake of snow with a million other flakes coming. But conversely though, Steve, if you can write that off as whatever, next, when you do kill, shouldn't there also be a sense of kind of like next? Because if we live too much in the high of the success, isn't it setting us up for when things don't go the way we'd like is to be a bigger fall, a bigger disappointment? Well, you want to celebrate the highs. You want to learn from the lows. So you can learn from each. A comic can get on stage, kill, and go, oh, I could have put that there. Oh, I could invert it. Sometimes your setup is your punchline and your punchline is your setup. You go. Oh, I could have switched that. I mean, I read it all the time on Facebook. Somebody writes, I said, oh man, they put an extra word here and there. It's such a touchy little. Are you a wordsmith? I try. No, I don't have a brilliant vocabulary. When I say wordsmith, I'm not thinking about necessarily vocabulary. I'm talking about placement of every word. Yeah. There's less or more. Less is more is true for most. I did. Not for all. Okay. Yeah, I know. Rules in comedy are tough because there always can be examples of where that rule doesn't apply. I did some writing for Joan Rivers for her stand-up act. And to do that, I studied her stand-up. I would transcribe her act. You talk about a person who uses so few words. Try. If you would ever transcribe it, it's incredible. Yeah. It concises for that type of one-line person. Concise. You can't be concise. Yeah. Somebody, we were doing this. It was Brevity is the Soul of Somebody. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. That was Brogan put that on Facebook today. Yeah. It was funny. Somebody else. Tell us what, tell them everyone what we're talking about. Do you remember? Well, this drunk woman comes over to him after the show and says something like, well. It's true what they say. It's truly what they say that there's the fewer the words, the quicker, the better it is for the punch line. And that's the soul of wit. Right. And he goes. You mean brevity is the soul of wit? Right. Right. Right. Yeah. That's what I. Yeah. Anyway. But this Stu Trivik said the greatest two-letter punch line you could ever imagine. And he had like my old character that you were playing. Yes. I went from that complete self-deprecating guy on my friend, our friend Tom Stern's advice years ago. He said, well, you're playing the loser. You're playing the loser. You're playing the loser. You're playing the loser. You're playing the loser. You're playing the loser. You're playing the loser who acts like a loser. You're playing the loser who acts like a winner. Mm-hmm. You know, like. Okay. I used to say, I know what you're thinking. Why did this guy go into comedy? It was funny. It got good laughs. Well, it was funny because you looked funny. Yes. And then I would change it. I flipped it upside down. I went, I know what you're thinking. Why did this guy go into comedy? Mm-hmm. Instead of, I used to be a male model. I modeled socks on the radio. I used to be a male model. I modeled socks. On the radio. On the radio. Mm-hmm. Okay. Everything was a brag. Right. Okay. So getting to true, Stu Trivax and brevity, he said he had the same type of character. It was like a loser who acted like a ladies' man. Mm-hmm. He says, you know what I like in a woman? Me. I figured. But I could see that coming. I already said it with the two-letter punchline, too. And I said that. That's true. You did. But it's like perfect. Yeah. Brevity. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Now, you mentioned. You mentioned Eddie Murphy was a competitor in this thing that you actually won. And I know you've worked with a lot of comics who are, today we call them like A-listers. They're multi-zillionaires. Bastards. So many of them. Bastards. So I'm curious, how do you handle that? You've had your successes, but so few people have had that kind of success. This mega jealousy? Well, no, I mean, it is a fair question, and I wonder how that must be because it's not as if you've been doing shabby. No. I mean, the accolades are there and the credits are there. And I've made a living. Thank God. To make a living at this, and this is what I love to do, is a nice combo. So you look at that as the reward in itself. Well, it's not a bad place to be. I agree. I mean, I want it bigger. I'll get a little deeper in a second, but if I look at, is Larry David or Seinfeld $800 million? Are they $800 million? Are they $800 million? Yeah. Yeah. Are they $800 million better than I am? No, not at all. I was joking with somebody else recently. I said, if Larry won a lottery and he won $300 million, that would be like, oh, okay. You wouldn't have to go crazy over that. It wouldn't be, what kind of- There'd be no jealousy. Yeah, it wouldn't be- Right? You wouldn't, no one would feel envy because it was sheer luck. Relative to that. Yeah. Anyway, but they're remarkably talented. I think there is a... An aspect to the business of right place, right time, right management does help. I was never great at that. Never great at that. And I think my core issue in life, which I'm owning even to this day in this last few days is a feeling, feeling my power. Explain that. Feeling my power to say, hey, I can be as great as any one of these people. Nobody I started with that really that are that much better than I, hundreds and hundreds of millions better than I am. Right. I mean, God bless them. I'm happy for their success, but I could have that too. It's about owning my power and I've recoiled from it. When you grow up the way I grew up, I don't think I had whatever ego I needed to be the man I am today. Right. And I think that's a part of, to seek out that success that way. I think like Leno, Leno, maybe there were more functional settings for people, other comics growing up, but I, I, I feel his hunger for success was enormous. He kind of owned his power, as much of it as he could possibly own. own. I don't like the guy. I think as a club comedian, he's brilliant. As a talk show host, he's despicable. I think as a person, it's pretty despicable. Well, that's a big thing to be saying. Not really. Well, because he doesn't have a show anymore. I mean, I'm saying like from a power. I said it before. I said it because I'll tell you, I love who, what we are, comedians. I love it. And to me, what, and I'll get back to owning power in a second. Yeah. I want to hear it. Yeah. And there's a lot of power in standup, remarkable amount. As much as the hug, there's a lot of power in that. But when you're in a position that Leno was in, to, he could have put on two comics a week. He was literally launched by doing, maybe, mainly a million shows and then being every six weeks or whatever. You're talking about Johnny Carson. He was, oh yeah, yeah. But Leno was launched on Letterman too in the mid eighties. Oh, okay. Right. Something like that. Yeah. But he was launched by Letterman, ironically, and then they went up against each other and he, Letterman lost it to him. But the fact that Jay couldn't replicate that for peers, not just me, but other peers. And there's, you can't think of one person he really launched. Did you ever, but here's a question I'm curious about. Did you ever pursue yourself as a standup Leno himself and say, did you ever actually go up to Jay? You knew him, right? I didn't know him. Yeah. At times. Yeah. I mean, did you ever go up to him and say, Hey man, I'd love to be on the show? Yeah. I did. He said, I'll go through the process. Yeah. You know, Jack Cohn or someone or whoever the broker. Broken at one time. Yeah. It didn't, it just didn't happen. I think, yeah, Jack was the head writer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brogan book comics for a while. Oh, it did. Okay. Yeah. And then it became kind of a committee thing. And anyway, a point is, yes. So there's a guy who's, he wanted to be the king and he achieved that and he owned his power. So I give him credit for that, for getting, accessing that creatively. I think I've remarked, I'm remarkably creative, a million ideas and working on, just wrote, something with somebody last week. A bad check. Pitch it out. Yeah. Doesn't count. Even bad if I write a check with somebody. Some people need a partner. Need help. Yeah. Can you sign this? Um, so. Well, let's talk. It's about owning your power. So how do you demonstrate that today? You know, how are you going to exercise that? What's going to change if it's been lacking? I've written probably about four books about health and fitness and diet and weight loss. And really, all the emotional side of it, which has been my struggle, my adult life. Is it an addiction for you, food? Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever, if I eat the wrong stuff, I get triggered. Have you gone to like a 12 step group for that? Yeah, I have. Thanks for bringing me in. I appreciate that. I didn't say, did I didn't say I've seen you at one. I've never been at one, but I said, hold on. I didn't get, you know, you're going for the joke there. I just asked you. I actually went to 12 Steps Anonymous. That's how many meetings I was going to a week, but nobody would sponsor me. I couldn't find anybody. Really? Yeah. It was, I was just alone. That was it. No one would sponsor you? No joke. Okay. Well, I don't know. Okay. Anyway, but the point is, I could see it happening. I think there's a big issue with food in this country and the diet mentality. Terrible. Okay. Well, hold on a second. I'm going to put a pin in that. I'm going to put a pin in that for just one second here. How are you going? You're a standup comic. Yeah. Okay. How am I going to merge that with? Yeah. Well, right now, suddenly the show has become very unfunny. How are you going to make weight loss? I know, but I'm not trying to be- I'm not going to make- How are you going to converge the two? When you say exercise your power, what does this mean? You're going to be, you're starting a whole new career around weight loss? Yeah. It'll be a sort of like a sister career. Okay. Okay. So it's not about being funny. No. It's about- It's about hard. Okay. It's about hard. So this is something you've written four books. Where can people get them? Are they available? No. I have to edit them and put them out. Okay. I'm not getting them out there. That's the power, is owning my power and saying, hey, you deserve to get your voice and have it heard worldwide. Okay. Bingo. That's power. But how are you exercising that with your standup? I don't actually merge the two that much. I don't see- Well, I'm not trying to be, I'm a little confused because I want to really stay really laser focused on what your message is. So you were saying that you're trying, you admired Leno for the power he had in- For owning his power? Right. And you said that's something you're going to be exercising more of. Yes. And I'm- That's my core issue. Okay. Is owning that. So what I'm curious about, and you might not have an answer right now because you might still be working on it. How do I do that? How are you going to do that with your standup career? How are you, what actions- Well, standup will be almost secondary. Oh, okay. To my guru career. So you would like to put that power more into something else rather than your standup? Well, yeah. I mean, one washes the other. If I do good at something, I'm going to be doing good at something. I'm going to be doing good at something. I'm going to be doing good at something. I'm going to be doing good at something. If I do good things as a standup, it's not going to hurt other areas of my life. Right. I didn't know if you had some actual, like, I'm going, you know, I'm working on certain things within your standup that would be an obvious demonstration of that power. But it sounds like your power is going to be demonstrated through the other thing. I probably, I think so. The diet type stuff. Yes. And that might bolster your standup in some way. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, I think like, you know, you've done 90, you said you did over 90 TV appearances. Yeah. I mean, that's like, that in itself is pretty incredible. I would say. Yeah. It's nice. I mean, you get, you know, they don't, it's not 90 in a week and you go, oh my God, what a week that was. But over X amount of years, yeah. Great. For about 15 years or something. I'm just a little concerned. I mean, are you going to... Is that going to draw focus away from your standup if you're spending a lot of time with the weight loss stuff? Well, actually almost every morning I get up and I write. It's like all of, at a certain point you go, hey, I've got to listen to this voice. It's popping out of me. I'm drawn to it. It feed, no pun intended, it feeds me. And I want, I want to, I can't just live in my shell anymore. I've got to share this with the world. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason why I'm doing this kind of standup is to light, you've got to lighten up about lightening up. I used to be so hard on myself and so screwed up around food and if I ate something, the wrong thing and beating myself up all the time, you know, 20, 25 years worth of this. And then I realized, how do I tie this into my personality? So you got to lighten up about lightening up. Otherwise, if you're heavy about lightening up, eventually you stay heavy, you get heavy again. That's how we are. Mm-hmm . Yeah. And the concept of diets in our world is so not working is it's not black and white like drugs or alcohol or sex addiction or gambling or certain types of shopping for people and things like that. It's not black and white. It's got to find a beautiful gray and you got to love yourself through it. How much have you weighed at your heaviest? I don't even, I used to, I hated weighing myself. I mean, 500 pounds? No, no, no. Probably, you know, 230 or something now. What do you know? Probably 210 now. So you've never been like obese? I mean, 230 is not- No, it's just a matter of being in shape and not in shape also. And it's really the, you know, you can feel a thousand pounds between your ears. Mm-hmm . You could be, you know, what do you call an anorexic? It could be- Oh, there's body dis-form- Yeah, yeah, I know. You could be, have the perfect weight. You could be at your goal weight and screwed up about food. I want to look back now. With these 90 TV appearances, I'm just curious, ever bomb on TV? Actually, I can't think of one time. You can or no? Can't. No. No, I can't. Because usually you know your acts so well and you've been so kind of, I forgot the word for it- A monkey. You're a trained monkey. It's like on automatic. Have you been depressed? I was gonna say, it's not depressed. Have you been, when you were about to do your set, do you ever blank out or- Yeah, it did. My third Tonight Show. I flubbed a word or two in a French routine, which you probably saw somewhere, maybe Reno when we worked Reno. Yeah, yeah. And I flubbed a word or two, but the audience didn't know it. But that moment was like a moment like on a TV movie where it felt like an eternity, like in slow motion. No. Yes. In my head I go, oh my God, I can't believe I did it a thousand times and here I am, I actually screwed something up and nobody knew it. Were you nervous before the set? Yeah. Before all the Tonight Shows, I was pretty nervous, but I felt pretty good about what I was about to say. So you're pretty calm based on that. You know what works. But there's the two guys that opened the curtain on the Tonight Show and I go, hey, it's the executioners. And they laughed, they understood. That's funny. Yeah. And my third Tonight Show, I was supposed to do panel with Johnny. And he ran along. Oh. With Michael Chang, the tennis player. And I was like, all of a sudden you're backstage and you're about to go on and they go, no panel. So you got to deal with that. Have you done that ever? Did you do panel with him? I did panel with Letterman. How many times did you do Carson? Three and they repeated all three. I did, I actually did kind of a ballsy thing on Letterman, on Carson. Here's a great little Carson story. You want to hear a Carson story? Sure. Yeah. When I started, he was the goal for every comic. And everybody always asked you, did you do Johnny? You do Johnny? And I go, nah, I haven't done Johnny. You're Johnny's kind of comedian. You do. I did a million comedy clubs, eight shows a week around the country during the whole comedy boom. You're Johnny's kind of comedian. You do Johnny? You're Johnny's kind of comedian. Then I would audition for the Tonight Show. And Johnny McCauley, the booker, he'd go, I don't think you're Johnny's kind of comedian. But I killed. I did great. And everybody always tells me, you're Johnny's kind of comedian. I don't think you're Johnny's. And I did it like a dozen times. But meantime, I'm always working the road. You do Johnny? No. You're Johnny's kind of comedian. So finally, like a dozen auditions, and he finally goes, yeah, you know, you got it. You did the Tonight Show. And I did my chin material, which I just killed. Yeah. About having a weak chin. And I talk about, you know, the Yeah. I'm not a big fan of the chin. But, you know. Actually. Yeah. Like, let me give a. We actually have that tape. Oh, let me just tell you what happened. Okay, go ahead. Yeah. So for momentum's sake, I should finish this story. Go for it. For sure. I killed. I did great. And McCauley goes, you gotta meet Johnny. You know, now it's if everything's upside down and flipped and I'm his big best friend and everything. You're a hero. I make him look great. And I'm his hero. And you gotta meet Johnny. So after the show. We're in a spot where he knows Johnny's gonna walk and I'm standing there. McCauley goes, Johnny Carson, Steve Middleman and Carson doesn't miss a beat. Looks me in the eye and goes, you are my kind of comedian. Isn't that nice payoff? That is amazing. After all that, you gotta meet, you know, you're not Johnny's kind of comedian. You're my kind of comedian. I always knew. Yeah. Anyway, and that's I got to live it out. That was my dream. I did it a few times. They repeated them, which was great. Does the. When you start to go, why did they call me a fourth time? Like, do you go there? Oh, well, he was kind of wrapping up his time. Okay. It was towards the end of the road. Also the, what happened was a million comics were trying to vie. If they had, I don't know how many comics on per week or month. Imagine how many people desperately trying to fill those spots. How many minutes were you doing back then? Cause. Five. I think. It's a decent amount of time. It seems. Now. It doesn't seem like it. Is it still lived? I checked the guys on Letterman. They're still doing five. Good. So you have something on the play here? Um, you know what? Why don't we do that? Let's go ahead. This is a Steve's bit around now, and then we're going to lead into the fact that your chin's changed since then. Let's hear this, this bit here. That was a classic Steve Middleman bit. Well, you may have noticed I have no chin. I'm not a big fan of the chin. I'm a big fan of the chin. I'm a big fan of the chin. I'm a big fan of the chin. I'm a big fan of the chin. I'm a big fan of the chin. That's a fact that's been with me my whole life. I grew a beard once. I looked like a guy with a beard that had no chin. It was like a fur tongue. I grew a beard. I was going to gym in high school. Teacher said, do 10 chin-ups. I said, with what? Even as a kid, learning how to play the violin is sticking my mouth. Tell me a little bit about your smiling. It's funny stuff. What's the memories? What are the memories? It was like being awashed with laughs every time I did that routine. People got it. I looked at the video. You guys listening, if you want to Google or YouTube Steve, just go Steve Middleman, M-I-T-T-L-E-M-A-N. There's about a dozen tapes. This particular one is the big laugh. Is it L-A-F-F? Yeah. That's so much funnier than the normal spelling. You look at this thing. Steve, he looks like... You know how Woody Allen looked when he was a kid? Weird and funny. You look at him and you laugh and smile. That's kind of how Steve looked. You had this funky eye that you can't really tell, but it was there. Strabismus. Lazy eye. If I talked to the audience, I'd ask them a question, they would answer me over here. Amazing. You had this no chin. It was a very... You had a funny, odd, character-y look. That's right. I grew it. Like this guy, Joe Settle... Settlemeyer. He was known for... Patrick Kelly, yeah. Well, Joe, I think he's from Chicago, but he was known for casting oddball-looking people. Yeah, and I was perfect for a long time. And that's why you were booking probably a lot because you had that fun, character-y thing. You don't forget the commercial. That's correct. So why did you get rid of that? Well, no, I outgrew it. Before having an extreme makeover on ABC, I already had outgrown it. What do you mean by outgrowing? You still have the lazy eye. And you still had no chin. What did you outgrow? You just internally, the feeling about myself, I was tired of doing all the self-deprecating stuff. It was hurting your own self-esteem? No, no. You just don't want to be tired of what you're doing up there. Even if it's working? You're winning competitions? Well, we're talking 1980 and now 2004. So did you feel your career had kind of plateaued? I would say so, yeah. You kind of put that in the ground? Yeah, but I could still, if I could do it, I could, if I set it up right and gave it a context, like, hey, I had a makeover on TV and I had a really weak chin. How weak? It took me three to four hours to change a pillowcase. You know, that was weak. So I could still do it if I like. Once in a blue moon, I'd do it. Right, okay. Because, you know, but I can't do a lot of other stuff. Right, so you ended up going on extreme makeover. Yes, on ABC. And they offered to redo your whole face. Yeah. How's that feel? Like, you're perfect. You know something funny? When everything was over, my son, they let him come backstage before I was kind of introduced to the world. And you have such a good-looking son. Yeah, I know, I know. Now I look like his real dad. Anyway, so he comes backstage and he's, I don't know, nine years ago. I guess he was like eight years old. And, you know, we hugged and he goes, nothing's really changed except your face. So, anyway, I'd like, I don't know, $100,000 worth of surgeries and everything. Okay, facelift, chin, nose, as I like to say, trim from orthodox to conservative. Okay, so I do the show. The next morning I'm flying out to do a corporate gig. Okay, I'm on the plane. Everybody's recognizing me. Like 20 people, the flight attendant go, oh, saw you on a show last night. Congratulations, good for you. Walking down the aisle, congrats, congrats. Take my seat. Take my seat. Take my seat. Take my seat. Take my seat. Take my seat. Congrats. Okay, we take off. The flight attendant comes for a drink order. She goes, oh, hey, congratulations, good for you. The woman next to me, she knows nothing. And she puts down her magazine. She goes, hey, what's all this congratulations about? I said, well, I just got an extreme makeover. I swear to you, she looks me up and down and goes, fabulous, when do you start? Isn't that classic? I'm telling you, true, very true. That's a great story. Yeah. I want to imagine for a moment, you've got your 20-some-year-old Steve is in the room. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to cry. And now, you know, some years have passed. You've had some incredible highs. I assume you've had some lows. You're still in mid-stride. I mean, it's not like, you know, there's still plenty to go and you're constantly out there on the road and you're constantly working. It's not as if the career is over. It's still moving strong. Sure. Sure. What do you tell the 20-year-old or 23-year-old or that you've learned as who you are today that you wish you knew then? Oh, power. Go for it. You're just as valid as all your buddies, all your peers. Ask for yourself. Don't deny yourself. But it didn't appear you were. You were on Carson. I did. How? I did. I was like this polite, reserved, insecure. Ex-Canadian. You know, like they're supposed to be polite. But I was born in Montreal. That's why I said that. Oh, okay. Raised in New York. You feel that you let other comics walk all over you? No, no. I'm just saying, asking, you know, for being kind of relentless about, I need great managers. I need to get my tapes out. I need to be seen. Are you doing that now? No. No, no, no. I don't have that hunger. Like if I just... You're a different stage. If I do corporate gigs... And I make a living and I do some Jewish gigs and I do private parties like a 50th birthday or a 40th wedding anniversary. I do a lot of those kind of things. I like it. I like it a lot. I do roast a certain once in a while. I do auctions now and then. You don't care about being on Fallon or... Oh, no. I'd like to. Or Kimmel or... I'd like to. I'd like to at my books. I'd like to be the comedian who's the weight loss guru. I'd be fine. Merge the two. Okay. I'm telling you, I've written volumes and volumes. I've written volumes on exactly, you know, becoming saner about this stuff. Well, it... I'm not perfect by any means. It's really interesting because I'm imagining like if I, with perhaps my own character defects and as they say, there's a Yiddish word, mishigas, that if I had this peer group back then and then so many of them had achieved what some would consider mega success just by the dollars. Yes. And while, you know, you've had many successes, you know, and it's just like, I don't know how I would not have some kind of, I don't know, like how... Jealousy? Yeah, and resentment. But you are so accepting and you have so much gratitude. It's a wonder. It's a great thing. And I like that. And I try to have gratitude. And I generally do. I just, you know, it's really... There's a serenity about you that's really nice. Well, listen. I auditioned for America's Got Talent a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago. I'd like to do that show. I'd like to win that show. I'd move to Vegas. You could win that. I could win that. Easily, I feel like I'd win that. And, you know, would I like the acclaim? Would I like people to go, hey, yeah, you are great. Pat me on the head, et cetera. Yeah, it would be nice. Could it be a vehicle for also launching my weight loss cause? That would be great. So, yeah, would I like it? Yeah, I would. But it's gravy. I've got to know who I am in the world. I love my son. I've got a girlfriend I love. I've got friends I love. I'm loved. And everything else is gravy. It's fun. It's got to be fun. It's a fun ride. We're here. We're so grateful. Look at humanity and the history of humanity and where we live and how much of an easier life we've had versus a lot of what they've done. Yeah. The history that we know in the world. We're very, very fortunate. Yeah, that's really great. That's really well said. I have some perspective, I think. So, yeah. And I'm sure that helps. Yeah. And also, you know, you could tell by the way I talk. If I listen to me talk, I'd go, boy, that guy does a lot of thinking. But, you know, I think about the world we're in and I have perspective and I see the irony in things. There's irony in ideas. I didn't make this mega thing. You know, it's never too late, I think. But, again, I know who I am also. I can't get caught up in status exactly where I'm at. What I like, money equates options. Options equate freedom. So money equates freedom. And that's a nice thing to have. Do I have as much money as I'd like? Do I have as much freedom? I have an awful lot of freedom. I get to do what I want to do. And I have a lot of free time. So that's all nice. And, again, I'm grateful. That's all. What else can I add to that? Nothing. Yeah. I think it's really... And I'm glad to be here. I'm just thrilled that we're friends. Yeah, me too. I'm so happy to see you today. Yeah, me too. I just was really excited to have, you know, when you said you could do the show and we had dinner before this, which was fantastic. And if people want to find out your schedule, like as far as where you'll be performing, or if they want to hire you, how do they find you? Steve Middleman at AOL.com. M-I-T-T-L-E-M-A-N at AOL.com. Steve Middleman.com is my, you know, M-I-T-T again. And Steve Middleman on YouTube. You'll see a dozen tapes. Corporate gigs, private parties, Jewish gigs. Christian gigs. Some acting gigs. Yeah, actually I did a church recently for 480, some church in San Jose. It was a Valentine's Day show. Talk about a clean gig. Having to be clean. We are all out of time, Steve. Thanks again. I really appreciate it. And thank all of you for listening. And please subscribe to iTunes, the show, if you haven't already. I want to thank all the callers for calling. Yes, they were quick, brief, fast. No, we didn't take calls today. There's just too much to talk about, Steve. Thank you. Yeah. All right, well, thank all of you again. And we'll see you next time right here on Vic Cohen's It's a Fair Question. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair question. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair question. It's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair question. I'm Vic Cohen, and it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair, it's a fair quest, quest, quest-