Jack Wall and Cindy Shapiro on video game music and mythology

! Yeah, that's right. That's Phantom of the Opera. The techno remix. Hi, I am Bat-Touch Bat-Boy, and this is Awkward Conversations. And today, I am joined by my lovely guest, a host to my left. To my left. Oh, hi. I'm Anastasia Washington. I mean, Anastasia Washington. A.K.A. Psycho Fembot. We're silly today. We are. I've had too much green tea. I'm sorry. Oh, my God. You're like on a green tea high. Can people really get high off green tea? I don't know. It is green. There is a lot of caffeine in it. You've never tried the right green tea? Probably not. Seriously. Oh, I don't think you could have heard me. I don't think you heard me. I'm Anastasia, A.K.A. Psycho Fembot. My button was not pushed. It is now pushed. I like pushing buttons. Do you? Pushing buttons. That's your thing. So who are you? Voice. Little voice. Little voice. Little voice. I'm Rachel Frumkin, A.K.A. Fancy Pants. I sadly only have one nickname. I'm not super special like Stacey. We can call you a munchkin. Munchkin. Sexy munchkin. Sexy munchkin. Dwarf. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Hobbit. Don't call me a hobbit. I don't have hairy feet. Super hobbit. She's a super hobbit. She's like a superhero hobbit. Oh my God. I don't have hairy feet. What about you? Don't have hairy feet. And I am Jeff Langston, the Phantom Kitten. He's got a cat. I still... I'm... You know, I'm still going with Phantom Kittay because it's super sassy sounding. Kittay. Kittay. Phantom... Phantom Kittay. Okay, Cartman. Okay, but we can go with Kitten. It's your nickname after all. That's right. It's your deal. You don't own it. Why you got to be owning things, huh? And that is the end of that. That's our show, you guys. Bye, guys. We've actually got a fantastic show lined up for today. We're going to be talking video game music and mythology with our guests who are going to be joining us soon. Jack Wall, composer of games like Mass Effect, Myst, Jade Empire, Black Ops 2. I think he's working on Lost Planet 3 right now. Yeah, I think that's what I saw. And his lovely wife, Cindy Shapiro, who has sung on some of his work and she's toured with him for Video Games Live, which is this video game concert that's kind of awesome. Cool. Yeah. And she's also planning a rock opera that they're currently in, like, I think... I think rehearsals are going to start rehearsals soon. So that should be awesome. But until they get here, we're going to play with ourselves. I mean, yeah. So... Let's do our questions with each other. Let's question each other. Okay. Tickle me with your question. I want to tickle you with so many parts of my soul. I don't want anything that you're tickling me with anymore. Yes, you do. That sounds disgusting. You'll get used to it, you guys. I don't want to get used to it. Okay. It'll be okay. So... Don't want to get used to it. What's your question? What's your new question? Who are you talking to? To you, Stacey. Oh, okay. So if you had to pick a genre of movie to live in, what would that genre of movie be? The rest of my life. The rest of your life is this genre of movie. Oh. Boom. Um. Hmm. Yeah. This is a tricky question, Missy. This is a thinky. This is a thinky one. I used my big girl brain for this one. So, I mean, you know. Okay. Well, I guess I would have to say a musical. Because I already kind of already want to live my life as a musical. That's really gay. I sing all the time. So, like, if I could, I would live my life in a musical. Because that way, if I'm ever feeling something that's too emotional, logic dictates I can just sing it out. So, wait. Are you saying you're like Genevieve from King of the Nerds? I guess so. But, um, I love you, but less obnoxious. So, like, I was, because you said that, and automatically I was going to say, oh, romantic comedy, because I want a sassy gay friend. But, um, I already have a sassy gay friend, and he's sitting over there. Like, to my left-ish. Oh, thank you. Oh. I'm sorry. Awkward. This just got really awkward. Awkward, awkward. This is the perfect moment for me to take a potato chip. No. So, like, that. But I thought, like, a musical, musicals can be, like, sad. Like, they can be sad. They can be happy. You can have a sassy gay friend in a musical. You can have all the same things as a romantic comedy. It's just there's music instead of you talking. Musa. Most of the guys in musicals are gay anyway, so. So, Jeff, what's your answer? Sci-fi movie. Really? Yeah. Oh, interesting. So that way you can get the fuck off this planet. Oh, interesting. Does science fiction necessarily mean that you have to be in space? Couldn't science fiction judge you on Earth? In my life, it would be in space. Oh, because I was going to say, there's, like, Total Recall, which is science fiction, but that takes place in, like, you know, 2024 New York or whatever. And they also go to Mars. Or at least in the Arnold Schwarzenegger version, they did. But I'm just saying. I'm just, you know, bringing her point to think that. We're just denying you space. You know, Fifth Element doesn't take place in space. I don't know. I'm just kidding. What? Fifth Element? Doesn't it? I mean, it takes place, like, in space. It doesn't take place in space. But doesn't it also take place, like, in, like, future New York? Yeah. A few. There's a place called, there's a bakery called Chubster Bakery. I just wanted to say that that came out. So Facebook is basically telling you that you're a fatty fat. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Facebook. From. I would love to be in a horror movie. Your whole life is a horror movie? Why not? You do realize you're a minority, right? I could be Sidney Prescott. And you realize that you're a slut, so you would be the first one dead. You're a slutty minority. You'd be dying your entire life. No. I would be the new Sidney Prescott. Deal with it. No. I don't think so. Deal with it. You're not virginal enough for it. She ain't either. She ain't either. I don't like this. Did you see the first screen? She was way virginal. Up until the end. And then she became a slut. She didn't become a slut. She had sex once, so she's a slut. Oh, I'm sorry. So she's now a slut. But I would love to be in a horror movie for the rest of my life. I feel like he'd be that other character, Jamie Kennedy's character. But you'd always be. I'd be okay with that. And he died in the second movie. Yeah. But like. Was it the second? I thought it was the third. No, it was the second. What kind of, like, would you live your life in a slasher film? Like a thriller? A zombie movie. A zombie movie. So you'd always be running away from zombies the rest of your life? It'd be Dawn of the Dead just every day. Oh. It wouldn't be so bad. I'm not going to judge you for your choice because you didn't judge me for mine. But. It wouldn't be so bad. I am judging you secretly. It's not really a secret if you say it. You're like the best secret keeper ever. No, I'll answer my own question. I haven't really thought about it. You know what? I will go. Oh. Indie flick. What? What? What? Your soundtrack would be so awesome. Like an indie comedy or like an indie drama? Indie comedy. Ooh. Like a 500 Days. No, wait. That was a drama, wasn't it? 500 Days. I think it's called Perks of Being a Wallflower. The Perks of Being a Wallflower. I would be okay, like, living permanently in that. I feel like my life is Perks of Being a Wallflower. I really love that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Boy, did I cry, man. I love that movie. And it doesn't. It doesn't make me, like, depressed. It makes me feel, like, inspired. So I feel like I could live there. I feel like, hey, you got a movie made about your life, dude. Everything worked out. Yeah. Like, I was like, super cool. You got a movie made about you. Super awesome. Yay for you. Okay, who else has a question? Okay, so. Jeff, go for your question. Oh, me. Go for my question. If you could have one completely and totally useless superpower, what would it be? Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. I already know. I already know. Done. Go ahead. Make people laugh uncontrollably. That way, if I ever come across like a person robbing a bank, all I would have to do is like my superpower, just make them laugh. And they would be laughing so hard that they would like drop their guns. They would drop whatever they stole. And then boom, I could just swoop in and take it. Wow. Hers is really peaceful and useful kind of. Mine, I just want to be able to throw my own fat. I want to be able to eat whatever I want. And then like somebody's walking down the street and they really piss me off. And I just want to give them a big fat ass. Like just like done. Interesting. Yeah. Just throw the fat. I'm just going to cut in for a second. We're joined by our guest finally. Hi guys. Yay. Hello. So we're here with Jack Wall and Cindy Shapiro. Hello. Welcome. Hi. You guys were just coming in on our awkward questions. Should we continue with our awkward questions? Fat throwing. Yeah, why not? That was awkward. Yeah. Oh, that's- I agree. That's the tamest question we've ever asked. Should we re-ask the question? Mm-hmm. Okay. My question is, if you had to pick a genre of movie to live in for the rest of your life, what genre would you live in? Oh, well, for me, it would have to be documentary. I mean, for me, nonfiction is like, that's all I read. It's almost all I watch. So real life, I guess, is the answer for me. How boring is that? That's cool. All right. That's cool. That's cool. Jack is not going to say that. I can guarantee that. I'm not going to say that at all. At least you'd be in a really- In fantasy land. In a really intelligent genre. Like, you'd always be, like, thinking and stuff. Yeah, that's the theory anyway. That's her. And you could have different- Like, you could have, like, sad documentaries. You could have happy documentaries. It's not a bad- And you just float through life and observe things. That would be, like, it. Not a bad genre. It's funny that nobody's picked the same genre yet. No, that's good. That's interesting. Really? What would you say, Jack? What would you say about our personalities, though? The genre you're after? I got to go with sci-fi. Oh, yay! We got it. Here we go. Because, you know, how cool would it be to sleep on the Starship Enterprise? That would be awesome. But also very scary because I have a phobia of space. Or because I did Mass Effect. Probably you won't go there, so, you know, that phobia won't have to be exercised in real life. So that's good. That's true. Yeah. So infinite. Oh. What? You asked a question. Oh, okay. I'll ask my question. Wait. No, wait. We just- Jeff has to ask his question first because we were in the middle of your question. Oh, we were in the middle of my question. And you never answered my question either. What was it? If you could have one completely and totally useless superpower, what would it be and how would you use it? I don't know if it's useless, but I would love to be- to have the power to reverse- to give someone back their virginity. I just think it'd be funny. What? They already do that, Frank. It's a medical person. Yeah, they have a virginity. What? I don't know that. Okay. But I can do it with my mind now. But wait, you would give women back their virginity? Or like everybody back their virginity. Why not? Your superpower would be- It would be a hobby. Women back their- Sometimes I do it in like while they're like in the process of losing their virginity. I just give it back to them. Just give it back to them? Why? Why not? But that's cruel. So weird. You asked for useless. That's the most useless I could come up with. I mean, I guess so. I guess so. I guess so. I guess so. That's it. What about you guys? I don't know. I mean, it's hard to come up with something that you feel like is useless. But I'm just sitting here thinking, well, maybe it would just be like, you know, like self-regulating temperature. So if you're too cold, you just get warm. And if you're too hot, you just get cooler. See, that's science fiction. That's the deal. Yeah. Sorry. But it's a superpower. So you just automatically step out of reality when you're a superpower. Is that useless though? I think it is. I think it's useful. That's the problem. I think you can find a usefulness to everything. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I think giving somebody back their virginity is useful. In a way. I think. I mean, you know, not in terms of like, just emotionally, I think it's useful. You know, you might have squandered it on somebody who sucks, you know, and you might want to get it back. Oh, that's right. And have your experience with somebody and it's passionate and awesome. But then you could do the same when they finally have a special experience. And then it would be useless again. Yeah, that's true. Yes. But it still would not be the first time. So it's. It would be for all those girls that are like, I can't believe I slept with that dude. Yeah. That's what I think. Like, before I was married or whatever. Give it back to me. Yeah. Oh, my God. You would save a lot of people. Actually, you would save a lot of people in like third world countries. Like women that like have to prove their virginity. Oh, my God. You're like a superhero now. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. This isn't fair. You could give like rape. I want her to be useless. You could give like rape. Yeah. Victims back their virginity. Hey, hey, we're going dark now. Yeah, that's dark. That went dark. I'm just saying you have a usefulness. Could you be able to give someone back their virginity if they're raped and pregnant? Oh, my God. We're getting too dark. What would your answer be? Disneyland. I am so sorry. I'm sorry. What was the question? If you could have one completely and totally useless superpower, what would it be and how would you use it? Oh, wow. To sleep forever and then when you wake up, it's like you never slept. That's a good one. That's a good one, right? That's a good one. Yeah, it's the Rip Van Winkle effect. Yeah, you always feel like you can be asleep whenever you want, but then you can be awake whenever you want, essentially. Interesting. That's a cool one. That is useless. That's actually really useful. I was going to go simple and say invisibility. Because it is really useless. What has used? Are you kidding me? I think it's pretty useful. I think it's got to be the most useful thing ever. The most awful useful one. I mean, invisibility was the one that first occurred to me, but I thought it can't possibly count. Useless. I mean, what are you going to do with invisibility? I mean, you don't have any. Well, I mean, if you're like- Did you ever see a Harry Potter movie? Like in 1500 Hot Dogs. There's one. You can slap people on the street and just watch their reaction. You can go around like fake haunting people. And like people could think like they've got like some weird ghost in their building. Like, no, trust me. All this guys is all useful to me. Trust me. Yeah. I see. I would just use it to stalk guys at the gym. You can stalk guys at the gym being visible. Yeah. You could just walk around staring at them. You don't need a cloak of invisibility for that particular superpower. You can just stalk guys. The stalking of guys superpower. Okay, next, next. All right. My question is- No. Okay. If Hannibal Lecter was cooking you, what ingredients would he use? And what kind of meal would you like to be? What? Sage. Sage. I'd like to be eaten with a nice Chianti and some fava beans. That sounds so classy. Yeah, I'd have to say I'd be a stew. I mean, I take really, really hot baths, you know? And at that point, you should be just cutting up carrots and celery and onions and just putting them in the bath water anyway. It's that hot. So I would just, I would be like a stew. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Delicious. I'd be skewered and on a spit, I think. Oh, that's gross. I like it. I mean, we wrap them in banana leaf. What about you, Stacey? Oh, God. I can't, I can't. Well. You do have that. I can't. My dual, my dual races. My dual races. Like, if you're just eating the black side of me, then I want to be like chicken and waffles. But if you're eating like the white side of me, I really want some white truffle oil, like all over. You can have white truffle, chicken and waffles. It's happening. New recipe. New recipe. Rachel? I think only Stacey heard my clever joke. I said I'd be cooked with Chianti and some nice fava beans. I guess I'd want to be a cake. You'd want to be baked? I want to be baked. Not fried? No. The whole southern part of my family does like, was like, I can't believe you don't want to be fried. No, I want to be like, I guess like a cake and I want to be like a red velvet. Okay, this is just could become so gross. I apologize to my guests. I want like my blood to be like the red dye and the red velvet cake. Okay. And my fat could be used as a shortening. I just want to interject that I'm a vegetarian and this is beyond disgusting. So if I had to be eaten by a cannibal, that's what I would want to be. So everybody take note, we're baking a cake next week. I apologize to the guests. A frumpkin cake. What about you, Jeff? Apologize. I think I would want to be laid out on a bed of asparagus. Because I judge. I just love asparagus. A spice, I think sriracha. Would have to use sriracha. I was thinking you're going to be like some like sausage and pepper kind of stuff. You're a sausage and pepper kind of person. No, I'm not a sausage and pepper kind of person. He's not, but I just thought one gay man would make that joke. Continue. Or I could be a hot dog. That's what I thought. I thought that was going to happen. So what's your question, Rachel? My question is... Did you answer it? What? Oh, what I... Oh, no, I didn't. I would be a ham, a baked ham. A baked ham. With like pineapple? Wrapped in bacon. With like the little maraschino cherries. I'm simple. And I like ham. You are. Yes, you do. I think you'd be a spam sandwich. Ugh, gross. You don't know me. Yuck, spam is gross. So my question is, if you could... I'm not a spam sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. If you could do a recasting of Gilligan's Island with modern people now, who would you cast as the different roles? Oh, no. Wow. Wow. Can you be specific? Can you just pick one character? Yeah. Okay, so... Otherwise, we're gonna be here for like... For like ever, right? Yeah. So who would you recast as Ginger, the professor, and Gilligan? And you said... I'm not a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. I'm a ham sandwich. Okay. So you're gonna say modern meaning right now or in the... Current. In the last... Yeah, like current, like the last... So he's alive. Yeah, like last 10 years, I would say. Like current actors. Well, I'm gonna put Robert Downey Jr. as the professor. I think he'd be great. That's a great idea. You can't go wrong with Robert Downey Jr. Yeah, he's good at everything. He could just handle that role, you know? Who's Ginger, though? The movie star. No, no, no, no. But who would she be? Everyone knows Ginger. Come on. Okay. Okay. Okay. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. I thought of this question. It's, I mean, this is, I'm probably going to get yelled at, but she was the person I thought of because I was looking at something and Megan Fox came up and I was like, oh, you know, if they were to do something like modern day Gilligan's Island, they would probably cast Megan Fox as Ginger. She has no personality. Yeah, I know. But like the whole like va-va-voom, like sex kidney kind of thing. I was like, oh, she could possibly be it. I was thinking they'd do like Scarlett Johansson or something like that. Yeah, Scarlett Johansson. Or Tamara Diaz, I was thinking maybe, or. Yeah. I mean, I like Megan Hilty. Or Sandra Bullock. That's a really good answer. And I liked Robert Downey Jr. Gilligan, I was thinking like Jay Baruchel might be like a really good, like he's kind of goofy. He'd be, he'd be good. Steven, like Jason Segel, he's kind of goofy. Michael Cera. Michael Cera. Who's that guy from Girls? The guy who plays Ray on Girls. He'd be good as Gilligan. I can't remember his name. I don't know that actor's name. Google it, somebody. Ray, I think his name is Ray. I'm on it. He'd be good as Gilligan. Yeah, he would be. He would. Or the guy who plays the slow guy on Arrested Development. Tony Hale. Oh, yeah. Alex Karpowski. Okay, Alex Karpowski. Tony Hale would be a good Gilligan, yeah. Was there another one? I was at a thing last night. I said Professor Marianne. I have to tell you a story. What? Sure. I was at a thing at CSUB up in Bakersfield, right? Last night, it was all gamers. And one of the guys that was struggling. Sort of producing the event. Came in with a full suit and a cane. Oh, my God. And he told me that he played that guy when he was 13. On episode 13 of season one of Arrested Development. So, I'm very excited to see that. Wow. That's super cool. And he was like the perfect guy for that. Anyway, that's a really boring story. No, it was quite fascinating. I like the part with the explosions. Arrested Development didn't get renewed. What? It's only for one season. What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? I know. But they were hoping. It's supposed to be a movie after. But they were hoping. It was only one season? Yeah. No. They're only doing one season for Netflix. One season for Netflix. And then it's going to be a movie. Oh. Yeah. I'm enjoying it. And it's like 2003 it came out. Right. It's so like. It's just. It holds up well. It holds up so well. And I didn't start watching until like, I would say, two, three years after it was off the air. Portia de Rossi. She could be. Oh, she'd be good. She could play Ginger. Oh, yeah. She'd be good as Ginger. She would. She'd be super good. I want her in more things. I just love her. She's very camp. Yeah. Yeah. I liked her actually in the Munsters. The Munsters thing. The Munsters pilot was awesome. It was really good. I was. I was really surprised. Yeah. I was sad. I was like, don't give us the pilot then. Please don't do that to me. Right. They're going to do a movie? I hate when they do that. They did. Brand new movie of Arrested Development? Yeah. They are. Yeah. They just did one season on Netflix and now they're doing a movie. But they were in talks to do a second season and they were not. They did not. I'm so confused. I thought they did like three seasons. No. They did three seasons of the show. And then Netflix. And then Netflix is doing the fourth season. Just recently. They're going to do a new season. They're already. They're filming it right now. Yeah. And then after that new season, they're going to do a movie. And the way. So they're following up House of Cards with this. Right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's supposed to be released in May. I'm so glad I came today just to learn. Just to learn how to play. I'm proud. The more you know. And the way that it's set up is. I'm in my cave. I don't know anything. Unless somebody tells me. There's like 13 episodes. I think 13 or 14. And each episode is supposed to be focused on one of the main characters. And it's all going to be. It's like if you just take all 13 episodes and combine them. It's one episode. If that makes any sense. It's like something's going to happen. And in one episode. And that character will go off into another episode. Their own episode. And it'll follow them. So essentially it's like the same story just told from different points of view. That's very cool. And they're probably going to release all the episodes at the same day. Yeah. It's such crack monkey stuff. I mean you binge on these things. Right. That's what happens. I marathon watch on like. And I don't know what to do. Because like when I'm done with like watching all the seasons. I need to watch. I'm like now. Now what? Now my life is empty. I'm like this show is no longer on the air. Now what do I do? That's my crack monkey intro. Yeah. I love. I love. It's the worst. I love Netflix. And I hate it also. But I love it. It's the worst. And now I have Hulu Plus. Oh which is doubly worse. Which is doubly worse. I had it for a week. And I was like I can't. I can't. I'd never leave my room. I tried it for five seconds. Because they started with an ad. And I thought I'm not paying for ads. I'm done. Yeah. And I canceled my subscription. That's true. But they have so many more BBC shows. They have like Outlike. You know. I was going to watch all of Downton Abbey on it. And then I. You could do that with Netflix. And you can Torrent. Not the second season. You can. Not that I'm advocating Torrent. You'll have the first season of Downton. Patience. I don't have it. Well that's our awkward questions. Let's move on to the topics of today. Music and mythology. All right. We like that. We do. So. We have a question. We have arrived. So. Jack. You've worked on Black Ops. You've worked on Myst. She's a big fan of Myst. Oh. I lost many. An hour. Of my life. And. You're doing Lost Planet 3 now. Right? Yeah. How's that coming along? It's great. Yay. I love those games. Do you really? Yes. Are you kidding me? No. I love. The second game was. Come on. That was horrible. I love the games. Oh. You know. Clowny relations are. Like. Going through the roof right now. They all know it. I love the games. Horrible games. I will love a crappy game. Just because of the story. Like. I. I'm a fan of. Concepts. Yeah. As much as story. And gameplay. So. I mean. Come on. You loved. Seriously. Musically speaking. In Lost Planet 2. You had Jamie Christopherson's great. You know. Orchestral score. And then you had J-Pop playing in the training session. I mean. It was so weird. It was very. Yeah. I mean. Japanese. Japanese. I've lost. I think I'm turning Japanese. I think I'm turning. Yeah. I think I've lost my niece to Black Ops 2. I hardly ever see her anymore. She like plays like eight. Nine hours. Of it. How could you? Haley. If you're listening. How could you? Shout out to Haley. Even like. Even like when she. Is like. On a date with her boyfriend. They. Play Black Ops. Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's like. You know. We spend so much time working on the single player campaign of that. And nobody plays it. It's all multiplayer. Yeah. What's a single player campaign? Single player campaign is. Is really. It's just you against the machine. So. You're playing. You're playing. So weird. Just against the AI of the game. And there's a storyline. And you go through. What's a storyline? I thought it was all about shooting things. Right. That's the multiplayer. That's what most people play. Yeah. The game. Right. But that. There's three separate parts of the game. There's a single player. There's a single player campaign. I'm schooling you right now. You're being schooled. You're being schooled. Single player campaign. Then there's multiplayer. Which most people play. And then there's zombies. Which a lot of other people play for fun. You know. Because everyone loves zombies. Who loves zombies? Yeah. Who loves zombies here? It's like an upgrade. Like. My niece had to pay like $70 to get upgraded into the zombie mode thing. So you recorded at Abbey Road right? I did. How was that? How do you think it was? It was better. It was better than that. Are there any other projects you're working on? Super fantastic awesome. I just finished Lost Planet 3. And now I'm about to start work on something that I can't talk about yet. But it's pretty cool. It's top secret. Hush hush. It's classified. Hush. Yeah. And it's all going down right now. And it's really exciting. I'm very excited about it. Nice. I'm also excited because you are excited. We're excited for you even though we don't know what's going on. I'm excited for you to be here. That's how great it is. How long does it usually take you to score a video game? As long as they give me. That's the short answer. But usually we get about a year to do it. Okay. Do you go through and play the game before you score it? You know in the last five years or so the technology has improved such that when people make games, when developers make a game, they can actually make a level immediately. Because their engine is pretty sophisticated now. The game engine. The thing that actually runs the game. So they can sort of like, the game designer can say, okay we're going to put a room here and a room here and a room here. And we're going to go through this and this is what's going to happen. So it's almost like they're writing what happens in that level. So when they do that, it may not be skinned with what it's really going to be. It might just be a room full of boxes immediately. And then the second level would be they'll skin it. And the third level would be a better render of it. And like the fourth level would be a finished render. And all those things kind of build up over time. So before you used to like finish a level, go to the next level, start from scratch. Finish that level, go to the next level. But now it's sort of like we're going to design the entire experience first. Right. And then we're going to sort of mock it up and like think of stick figures doing it. You know. But you can actually play through the game right away. So by the time I start, they're usually. At the third stage, which is the skin stage where you can actually see things in the world. So what they'll do is they'll like do a video capture of somebody playing that level. And then they'll give me that along with a script. And, you know, then I can actually score that whole level to picture. I just pull it into my computer and I'm watching a movie of the playthrough. And I can sort of spot where music should go, where it shouldn't go. You know, what type of music. It should be. And we can all kind of agree with, you know, the audio team, the audio director, myself can sort of like what we call spot the level. Right. Figure out where music goes. So it's pretty cool now. It's almost like scoring a film at this point. You know, because I can I can like be writing music from the very beginning and it's in the game. And then if in the example of Call of Duty, where we had a nice budget for recording live musicians, the music's already in the game. So there's no outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside music outside and then mix all of that together in a nice mix and a nice professional mix and a final mix. And then they can put it in, put it in the game. That's how it works. Very cool. That's epic. I hope I didn't bore you to tears. No, that was fun. Now I want to put it in the game. I don't want to say anything because I was super fascinated. Now I want to play the games. What's your favorite game that you've worked on? Oh, you know, I'm kind of partial. I got asked this question a lot yesterday. I'm kind of partial to the Myst series because I really love those games. They're kind of my favorite type of game where you get lost in these places that are really fantastic, you know. So if it wasn't sci-fi that I wanted to live in, it would be like fantasy, like Myst or something. I'd love to live in the world of Myst and sort of create it as I go along. Because the whole premise, if you don't know about Myst, is that there's an art of writing. These books, right? And when you write a book, it's just genius, right? When you write in a special way in the book, it's all to do with the script and the actual words you use. You're actually creating a world that you can go to. So you write this book. It's called programming, computer programming. People actually know how to do that. It's great. I don't know. Special language in a certain format creates a world. But that's a virtual world. This is a real world that you're going to. That's the premise in the game. We're talking about real things right now. I was a coder for 20 years. I gave you props for that. I don't want to know. I just want to go there. How the sausage gets made. Yeah, don't do that. I love that. That's the fun part. That's because you like documentaries and I like fiction. No, no, but writing code is that feeling of creating these fantastical worlds. That's how it feels. And that's why we create things. That's right. But... We like to suspend the disbelief as much as possible and actually go there in a matter of... I do too. Once the code is done. Once the work is done. I don't want to work. I just want to go there. We've been together for 18 years just saying that. And we really love each other. I don't know how it's coming off, but we love each other. I think it sounds very passionate. 18 years. That's great. I lost... Did you lose... I lost many an hour playing Myst as a kid. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And all the games are really good. All of them. I have the soundtracks on my iPod. It's because my dad played Myst. Which is your favorite soundtrack? Three, of course. Three or four. Three. I know three is amazing. Every once in a while, I'll go back and listen to it. So good. Theme for Madonna is on my... I play it while I'm driving all the time. Yay, that's... Oh, that's fantastic. Wow. I have to go for Mass Effect. That was one take, ladies and gentlemen. Wow. One take. One take. And you know... When I did it, I was standing in the vocal booth in our studio at home, and I finished the take, and I was looking through the glass at Jack, and he was like slumped over his desk. He was crying. And I told somebody that story, and they were like, well, either it was really good or it just sucks so bad. Yeah, it was amazing. It was amazing, that moment. You know, you get this great... You know, that's why I love composing music, because you get these... Wonderful moments of just beauty and perfection. You know, it's just like, it happened. And they come out of nowhere, you know? Yeah, but you know, the bed, so the bed, the musical bed was already there, right? And so it was this lush, delicious, you know, really deep, rhythmic, you know, sexy thing that I suddenly was lying in, right? And so it was really easy to just open my mouth and start gushing into it. I mean, it was just great. Oh, was it? Was it really? Yeah, it really was. Really, really was. The double entendre will start now. Yeah, it was great. Always in the gutter. It felt like this really kind of that magical thing that you're looking for in music. I love magical things. I do too. Part of reality. My God, Frank. And just, not to change the subject, but you asked me what my favorite score was, I think. Yeah. I love all... All of my scores. And that's not to say I love everything I've done. I mean, I always think, oh, I could have done that better or this one thing. But I really just, they're kind of my babies, you know? Right. And I'm really super proud of Black Ops and the upcoming Lost Planet and the stuff I did on Mass Effect and Jade Empire. All those are really, like, I just, I went to, it was pretty cool. I went to iTunes last week or whatever. And I just... Type, you know, just very selfishly typed in my own name and up popped 10 albums. And I thought, that is pretty cool. You know? I actually left... I'm leaving something behind. When I'm gone, those 10 albums will still be on iTunes. You know what I mean? It's kind of cool. I'm leaving something behind that, you know, and I thought, wow, the work I'm doing is pretty interesting. I never thought about it really in that way. It was cool. I really... Everyone's like, not tough. We just like listening to you. We like listening to you guys. We are in awe. I'm just listening to you. I'm like, oh. It's my journey to talk. And then I started doing that with a lot of other people that I know. And I thought, wow, all these people are creating all this great stuff. It's gonna, they're gonna leave it behind. It's really, really quite wonderful. He puts, makes Googling yourself sound so amazing. I just Google myself and other people for selfish reasons. Yeah. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Research. Do you game often? Do you game often? I game when I have to. I really don't have time. I, you know, it's so funny because I was talking to Susan O'Connor yesterday. She writes for like Far Cry and she just did the most recent Tomb Raider and Gears of War. She does all these great... Looks amazing. She's a writer. Yeah. You know who she is? No. Just the work that she's done. I didn't know that was her. Yeah. But... And she's just a really interesting person. She writes the worlds and she knows how to write interactively and all of that. And she's... We were just talking about it. I'm like, you know, all... You go to these meetings and everybody's like, oh, yeah, I play that game. Yeah. Oh, I beat that game. Yeah. And you know they're lying. It's like they're working 80 hours a week, 100 hours a week to make the game that they're working on. And they have a stack of games over here. They're not going to get to them until they're done. You know they didn't play them. You know, it's just one of those funny things. It's like sort of like, oh, you're not cool if you haven't played every single game out there. You just can't. And I'm just being real. I'm just keeping it real. I must be like the most uncool person ever. You don't play games? I do. I haven't... You play Myst. I'm like, I'm weird. Like, I don't... When I'm alone or like when I have time, I don't typically play video games. But when people are over, like I'll play games with them or do stuff like that. I'm just not like a just solo game player. I will play in... You know, and I think a lot of people are like that. I think they look at games as a way to connect. Through the machine, as it were, where like multiplayer experience is actually fun. Yeah. Playing with your friends. And Susan was talking about this in her talk yesterday where she was saying that we have to learn how to deal with each other through the machine better. You know, it's kind of like, you know, when you're in a car and you almost hit somebody or somebody almost hits you and you're like, yeah, you're yelling at them and you hate them. And but if you were actually if you were just walking down the street and you bumped into somebody, you would say, oh, I'm sorry. Right. Right. But you're in the machine. So you're mad. You're mad because that machine and that jerk who's running that machine just came close to hitting me and they're big jerks and they hate them. Assholes. Assholes. I don't want to say it, but, you know, you're an asshole. I must be weird because I only played like the single player campaigns in any games. Yeah. A lot of people are like that too. I never play online. Yeah. But you're a gamer. I would define you as a gamer, you know. Yeah. I would not define myself. And I don't play games, but I was a game developer. Yeah. I was a game developer for many years. So my specialty was interactive fiction and human behavior modeling and artificial emotion systems. So that's what I was working on when I met Jack. And it was really fun. And I worked with some really, really interesting creative people during that time. Yeah. I wouldn't even be a composer in video games if it wasn't for Cindy. I mean, she's the one who introduced me and I was like really interested in her because she was in this world. And I was like, wow, what's that like? And tell me about it. Wow. And suddenly I realized I was on a date. I was like, okay. What were you doing? It was love. What were you doing before you became a composer? I was a record producer. Really good record producer. Jack's a great producer. He's got amazing, amazing ears. I mean, that's one of the things that when Jack's your composer is you've got this unbelievable producer also. That's how we met. I had a band and we had a record deal and Jack came in to do some recording for us and some mixing. And we were like, oh my God, this guy's like so good. He really gets our sound. And he's a really, really talented guy. Like on the desk, like on the mixing console. He's so talented. It was really funny. Her band was full of like A type A personalities. It was really, really funny because I had never worked with them before. And we had done some, we cut some, I think drums and some guitars and finished up. You did a vocal. They were recording super fast. And there it was time to mix. And I just, I was just kind of, you know, I was pretty comfortable in the studio. I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. So I just said to them, you know, the way I like to work guys is let me get the mix going. Let me do all this sort of grunt work that I have to do to make the mix happen and get it up. And you guys, why don't you just go for a walk and come back in like about an hour. And they were all like, what? No. I mean, we, what happened was this is the way I remember it. We Jack starts mixing and we were so fucking obnoxious. I mean, it was like four completely annoying, full of themselves, musicians going, Hey, you know what? Pull that fader up this way. A little more reverb on that. And if you can move, you know, if you can pan that left, we were just annoying. And Jack was like super calm and he turned to us and he said, Hey guys, why don't you do this? Why don't you guys like go and get a cup of coffee for like an hour and then, you know, and I'll get some sounds up. And then you can come back and you know, we'll take a listen. And I mean, the four of us looked at each other like, wow, no one's ever talked to us that way before. First of all, like completely rationally and calmly. And then we kind of slunk out of there like the idiots that we were. It was, I mean, we were, there were, I was in a band with amazing musicians. Um, but anyway, we, they were incredible. But um, we, we left the studio when we came back, like this magical sound was going on and we'd never sounded like that. Yeah. In a studio mix before. And um, yeah. And it was my bass player who was, who kept saying to Jack, you should ask her out. You should ask her out. She's, you know, she's doing this cool interactive stuff, blah, blah. And then he did ask me out on a business, you know, for a business drink. So cold. Was that the wording? Business drink. I mean, it's like, Cindy, I really, I'm interested in what you're doing. Do you mind if I pick your brain one, maybe sometime this week? You know, if you have time, you know? Can we get together? And cause I'd love to like learn about what you do. Yeah. This is where the hot bath. That's a good way to ask somebody out. No, but I didn't know I was asking her out. That's the thing. He was literally not asking me out. I was really not. Really? I was on a date. But he wasn't. It was a good date. It was a good date. It was about, I don't know, six hours in when I realized. Jack's like, oh man, I want a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. She wants a date. Jack's like, oh man, I want a date. She invited me up to her apartment for a whiskey. He was on a business meeting. Yeah. He likes to tease me. You invited me up to your apartment for a whiskey. Yeah. And I just started laughing. I lived in this awesome little pied a terre in the West Village. I was like, come in while I have a whiskey. It was like two in the morning. That's when he realized he was on a date. He's like, oh, I get it now. Yeah. He's like, oh. Naive. Naive boy. Our whole relationship was, I think, you know, I didn't realize I was asking you to marry me when I asked you to marry me. So sad. Adorable. It's decided. I want to be you too when I grow up. Just like want to live. No offense, but you're grown already. Not yet. We're still growing up. We're still growing up. But I still want people to go, I want to be you when I grow up. We're not done. We really aren't done. I am not. Shut your face. I mean, none of us are over 25 on this show. Shut your face. We are. None of us. Well, some of us aren't. For reals. For reals. I'm a baby. Whatever. Shut up. I'm not spreading your youth in our face. So you guys are working on Psyche now, right? We're working on our Psyches. Yeah, we're working on Psyches. We're in deep therapy right now. Yes. Psyche. Psyche is my opera. Yeah, that's what we're working on. We're in deep therapy right now. Yes. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Psyche. Decided this is what you wanted to do and she's suddenly in Paris and you know, I'm playing mom and dad at home And that was totally awesome And I'm not kidding about it. It was just a really great time. She she went out there and Her day consisted of waking up whenever Going down for coffee and a croissant Then going to the local museum and then coming home and writing every day for three months a tough life. It was it was amazing She would send me and you know pieces back to me, you know, I'd listen to him right away I was like, oh my god, this is good Good it's better than you know, it's like better than I would write, you know I just felt like this is really different and I'm excited about it because it's different It's not video game music, which is you know, I love doing that but this is like something that had legs It's something that would could last I think you're my favorite I'm a new couple idol I went up to Paris with a keyboard a laptop with logic which is music, you know a composition program a guitar and a microphone and one bag of clothes and I was living in a place called Cité Internationale des Arts I love when you talk like that So It was an amazing place. It's it's a it's a collection of artists lofts and studios all-in-one actually two buildings In the Marais district, which is the fourth of all these months like right across the river from Notre Dame and Like 300 artists live there from all over the world and doing work in all kinds of disciplines and Sorry, somebody's buzzing or beeping or something. Oh That would be you Jay outside outside outside outside outside outside outside of town. And it's really funny when I was talking to Americans about, oh, I'm going to go do this thing. And people would go, so when do you have to deliver something to them? And I would go, never. And they would say, well, do you have to perform it? Or do you have to like do some kind of showcase of the work you're doing there? No, I don't understand. What do they get out of it? And well, the French love the arts and see its value in the culture and want to promote that. Why? Where's the monetary value of it? It's a cultural, like, it's really hard to explain to people that there was no overarching goal for Cité. Anyway, I got there and I lived there for three months. There were artists from all over the world there. And they did all kinds of things. I mean, people were doing soft sculpts. They were doing, you know, they were doing, you know, people who were painting, people who were working in repertoire, all kinds of dancing, everything you can imagine. And I was issued an artist card, which got me into a bunch of museums for free, which it was just amazing. So when I was working on Psyche, so Psyche is this Greek myth and it's from the late Greek period. And it's about a human girl who falls in love with the God Eros and all kinds of trouble ensues from that. And there's been a lot of artwork about that. And I think it's a really, really good book. And I think it's a really, really good book. And there's artwork about Psyche. And there's artwork about her all over Paris. And so I would just go with a notebook and just look at, stand in front of really famous paintings or sculptures or, you know, ceramic plates. I mean, all kinds of crazy stuff, drawings, antiquities, like statues from antiquity, and just stand there and free write and then go, oh, fuck, I totally missed, you know, forgot something about Eros. Like I would, there was no typography outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros outside of Eros I just kept feeling like, okay, I think I'm, I mean, I really trust his aesthetic. So I just kept feeling like, okay, I'm on track. I'm just going to keep going through the story. And basically I wrote it linearly. I wrote my way through the story scene by scene. Hey, real quick question, not to interrupt Cindy, but what happens when that gets to zero? The world ends. The world ends. The studio explodes. Timer in here and I'm like watching it. It's like three minutes left. What happens? We've got like 10 minutes. The studio explodes, but we'll still continue. So let's take three of these. Oh, okay. So unfortunately we're running out of time. So we're going to move on to Mary Fuck Kill. Have you guys ever played Mary Fuck Kill? No. She had to explain to me what it was. So the basic just as you choose three, I mean, it's super simple. You choose three people. You marry one. You sleep with another and you kill somebody. Oh, there's one. I don't know who it is. I have to call my daughter. You should kill that person. Yeah. I'm not sure. My daughter's going to be so mad. She's 16 and she's like an absolute expert on Greek mythology. And I'm going to look at one of these and go, I'm not sure. I should call her and go, what's this one? She's going to be pissed. We can Google anything. I don't want to Google any of these people. Oh, so who did you get? You know them. Prometheus, Odysseus, and Danny Elfman. Oh, come on. Oh. Oh. Danny Elfman is a clear fucker in this. Come on. Danny Elfman, that's a Mary right there. That is. That's a bank account you want some access to right there. I think I'd like to marry Odysseus because I'd never see him. Danny Elfman is like a soundtrack to my life anyway. I don't want to marry a guy. You know, it's nothing wrong with that, but it's not my thing. It's okay. I feel like I don't want to marry a dog either. So I got a dog. All right. Well, not all of us can marry Hitler. Read them out and say who you'd marry. Yeah, someone married Hitler. Somebody look up Heracles because I can't remember who Heracles is. Sorry. Sorry, Gracie, if you're listening or if you ever listen. Is she listening? I don't know. She's not listening. Our daughter. Oh, there you go. Did you already say your three? Son of Zeus. Okay. Okay. Yikes. All right. So mine is Poseidon, Heracles, and Apollo. Somebody put Apollo Creed in parentheses. I'm just going to ignore that. I didn't do any of that. That's really funny. It's just going to be Apollo. But would you want to kill Apollo Creed? No. I don't want to kill really anybody, but Apollo, I would definitely marry Apollo. Apollo is one of my... What about Apollo Creed? I really want to know what you do with him. I'd fuck him, honey. That's what I would do. Does that feel good? Feel better now? That's awesome. Sorry. I love... You can't nudge that tiger. No, you know. I have to say I would marry Apollo. I have a record coming out called Sun God's Consort, and it's a lot about Apollo. And I have a thing with... I agree. Gods. Anyway, Apollo is the god of the sun and the god of logic, the god of music, the god of prophecy. And I think he'd make a really good spouse. He's rational. He's creative. He is good at giving advice. He'd be a really good partner. Sounds like somebody I know. Yeah, just like, hmm. And I think I would fuck Poseidon because, you know, there's all that roiling water. And, you know, there's all kinds of passion with Poseidon. She won't care. She's used to it, man. She's grown up with this. And then Heracles because I don't really know that character very well. I'd have to kill him. Plus, Kevin McKidd played Poseidon in the Lightning Thief. All right. I'm going to do my next. We're running out of time, so I'm just going to burst through these. Rip it out. I got John Barry, who I'm going to have... I'm going to fuck because... He did. We could have the James Bond theme playing. There you go. Oh, yeah. I didn't write that. Oh, damn it. Well, he'll do Ambion music or whatever. I'll kill Athena because... You're stupid. It's Athena. No, she's the goddess of war, right? So killing her would be right in line with her line of work. She'd love it. Yeah. It'd basically be like fucking her, too. Yeah, exactly. And I'd marry Claude Debussy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Debussy. How do you say that again? Debussy. Claude Debussy. Oh, yeah, yeah. What about you, Jeff? Me. Okay. I am going to fuck Frederick Chopin because he's like the youngest of the three that I have. I am going to kill Howard Shore. I'm going to kill Howard Shore. Epic music while you kill him. I am going to marry Alan Silvestri. Because he... He owns his own vineyard. Oh. He's our excellent point. You totally looked that all up on the page there. No, we don't serve the internet while we're on here. What about you, Casey? We're smart. I don't like the ones I got, but I'll go. I'm going to kill Brahms. No. Yeah. Oh. Sorry. He's like a sad-ass guy. It's okay. He'd have a lullaby to die to. I'm going to fuck Beethoven. Just because, you know. Because he can't hear you. Because he can't hear you. You have to go off the vibrations. He's kind of my type. Silent and douchey. And I got Severus. Okay. This is the reason why I hate it because I'm not going to kill a dog. You know how I feel about that. And I don't want to fuck him. I'm just going to have a non-sexual marriage with a three-headed dog. That's it. You're trying to get him a green card. He'd be a great guard dog. What? What about you? Best awesomeness. My dog won't. Is it my turn? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. So I got Karl-Heinz Stockhausen, Peter Tchaikovsky, and Aga Medman. Aggie! That's why I started laughing because I was thinking about the car. Oh, Aggie. So I think I'm going to have to kill Karl-Heinz because I don't know. I didn't know. Electronic music is super awesome, but I just, I can't get behind it that much. Sorry. You can kill Hitler. That's okay. This is like making up for sleeping with Hitler and killing. You married him. Tchaikovsky, I don't, well, okay. I'm kind of torn because I kind of want to marry him because he wrote some really long Make a decision now. He really outside. Just take it off like a band-aid. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Be your pressure. Be your pressure. Be your pressure. I guess I'm going to marry him and sleep with Agamem'... a man. Aggie! Because he'd start a war for me if anything ever happened. That's true. Well, that's our show, guys. Thank you for listening. Plug, plug, plug. Yeah, plugs. Like us on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Friendster, Carrier Pigeon, whatever. We don't have a Carrier Pigeon? We do have a Carrier Pigeon. True story. Thanks to our... Yeah, Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. Google+. And thank you to our sponsors, RabbleRouserIndustries.com, Discovery Science Center, and thank you to our wonderful guests for coming on the show. Yay! We love you guys. Thank you. Come back again. We will. And again. We're not leaving. And again. And again. And plugs to any of your stuff that you're working on or doing? Yeah, go to www.psycherockopera.com. P-S-Y-C-H-E. That is... We're going to be mounting that sometime in 2013. And our director, look up our director, Michael Matthews. He will just destroy you. He's so gifted. It's amazing. So much mounting and destroying here. Yeah. And definitely like it on Facebook. Yeah, like it on Facebook. Psyche Rock Opera. We'll share it on Facebook. Yeah. Yes. Do that. Oh. Yeah. And... We have a huge event coming up on March 30th. Oh, that's true. Real quick. March 30th at Comic Book Hideout in Fullerton. We are doing international tabletop day jamboree. Yay! Yay! Now get out of our studio. Now leave. All right. Oh, man.