Interview with Linda King on Bukowski memoir

Welcome, everyone. I'm here at Skid Row Studios this afternoon. My name is Richard, Richard Shave, and I am delighted to be interviewing and bringing out to you Linda King. Linda King, famously a lover of Charles Bukowski, the central female character in his 1979 novel Women, and recently published a book, Hating and Loving Charles Bukowski. Linda, this came out about six months ago. That was Loving and Hating, not Hating and Loving. Did I say that? The loving comes first. It does, Linda. I'm so sorry. Loving and Hating Charles Bukowski is your recent memoir. This came out about six months ago. Kiss Kill Press is your website, so people can find it on that, right? Right. Perfect. Okay, good. So we've corrected my faux pas. Linda, I'm so glad you're here. You have had a rich life as an artist, a mother, a lover, just a human being going through your life and with your own struggles and challenges and hopes and dreams. I would love to start, we, just before we sat down, we opened up that photo in the Richard Stones book, Bukowski and Charles Bukowski, and we're going to be taking pictures. It's a photo of you and Charles Bukowski and your daughter and your dog and John Martin at the Long Prairie Avenue where you live. So I'm hoping this is just a good place for us to start. So maybe you could just, this is a famous photo, but for people that aren't aware of it, if you could just describe this photo and tell us about when it was taken and where things really were for you at that point in your life. This photo was probably taken when I lived. At the Long Prairie at one time for a short time, I lived there about six months. But our relationship started when I started, did a sculpture of him and at my own place. I lived in Burbank at that time. And then I came to the Long Prairie because I couldn't find any place to live. And it was a bad place for my kids. I had a couple of kids and it was a bad place. And I didn't stay there too long. What year? About what year was that? I first met him in like 1969 at the end of and I was with him for about five years. We split up about 1975. Okay. So sorry to interrupt you. So 1969 is an important year for Charles Bukowski because that's the year he quits working at the post office and he begins his career as a photographer. And he begins his life as a writer full time. Yeah, he just, he was working on a post office at the time that I met him. And as a matter of fact, he was drinking really, really bad at that time. And I'm kind of, I'm kind of psychic and I used to have, I had these quite vivid dreams that he was really in trouble, that he was, you know, not going to make it even, you know, and, and this is kind of, I kind of go where my dreams take me, you know, and I even argued against it. No, no, no, no, not him. I can't have anything to do with him, you know, and, but, but I could see, you know, he really was drinking an awfully lot like. So, so you're, you're, you're dating him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You started to sculpt him, you started to really intertwine your lives together and you're starting to have these, these visions of distress for him. So how does this- The pictures that I originally took of him for the sculpture, he was like 250 pounds or something. He was really big and in the first couple of months I met him, he must have lost like 40 pounds, you know, and he started looking altogether different than he- He did, I couldn't even sculpture from these pictures at all. They look so different. He had different hairdo. He had like a Will Rogers haircut. It's amazing how different that he looked from the beginning of when I started to the end of when I actually finished the sculpture. So what happened to him, do you think? What happened from the time you started sculpting him and that you started sculpting him about 1970, 71 approximately just to bring everyone up to speed. So what happened to him? Well, I think he just started trying to get in shape. He started, he claimed he fell in love and he just, you know, he was losing weight because he wanted to look better. I'm quite sure that's all it was really. Did he fall in love with you? But I went over. Yeah, I'm afraid so. Unfortunately. But anyway, I went over there one day and he literally told me, he says, and I told him the dream I'd had about him not making it. And I says, listen, I'm into working on the sculpture. You know, you got to stick around till I finish this at least. But he said, he told me that. That he hadn't eaten for five days at that point. You know, he had not eaten anything for five days. He'd only been drinking. So he must have gone through some of that. And then without a job, it gave him full time to drink. You know, that's a suggestion of not having a job anymore, you know, too. It's not. So. So how did this, he somehow come out of this with a creative process? That got him through several novels and really put him in the international spotlight? Well, he was a very hard worker. You know, he used to claim he wrote so much because he was terrified. But I don't know if that's the reason or not. But, you know, this is well known that he wrote one of his novels, I think, in 20 days. You know, one of his novels complete from beginning to end. I think that Post Office, his first novel, was written. In a very short time frame. And he did claim fear of the wolf at the door. Yeah. So, Linda, you first started sculpting him and then you became his lover. Yeah. And then you, after you broke up with him, you found yourself as a central figure in his novel, Women. What was sort of that process for you? Because you fell in love. You fell. You fell out of love. And then you were able to come back to it as your life as a novel. You know, I always felt like that he really trashed me in Women, you know, more or less. Some people don't think so. But I thought he was mad at me. He wrote that right after he left me. And he was mad at me. And I thought that. But this book that I love and hate in Charles Bukowski kind of tells. It's my answer to that, to Women, even though it's been so many years. And my book couldn't get published. I couldn't get it published or anything. But I have used some of the writing that he gave me to make it authentic so that people can't say, hey, she made this up, you know. Sure. I mean, more or less, I put down what he wrote to me, more or less. Sure. So that they can see that he did have that in him. And I truly don't think that he wrote that part of himself in his books even. You know, he kind of kept that part hidden, you know. So I'm kind of exposing. I feel like I'm exposing a part of his makeup that was there all along. But he just, you know, just kind of kept it hidden. In other words, he was playing the tough guy. He had a facade that he played. But with me and the things he wrote, he didn't play. You know, he actually told his true self, I think. Linda, you did it. We're here. Let's take a deep breath. I'm so glad we're here. You've just said it. You've said that there's a part of Charles Bukowski, who's one of the most self-revelatory writers of American letters, whom he hid from everyone in his books. Can you go back and tell us a little bit about this self, which you've just said you attempt to outline in your book, Loving and Hating Charles Bukowski? Well, he was a mixture. He had all of the personality that he wrote, too. He had that tough side and the rotten side and all sides. The drunk side and the sober side, you know. He was many-sided. And that's what made him so interesting as a human being, because you could come at him from every angle, you know, and you'd get a different side. So, but being with him was like, you know, all these great lines that Bukowski had. Well, he would do that just naturally when you were with him. You know, he'd throw out these great lines. You know, you're like answering these great lines, you know. And original, very original. So, just say driving to the track, you know, would be an event of some kind of some slinging back and forth verbal stuff that was very interesting, you know. Linda, what I'd love for you to try and paint for us. Is a... Is an afternoon in the life with you and Charles Bukowski. Make it early in your relationship. So, there's... The bloom is still there. Maybe it's 1.30 in the afternoon and you're going to go get some beer or maybe you're on your way to the track. I don't know. But just try and get us into the car. Try and get us onto the sidewalk with you on Santa Monica Boulevard. When he moved in with me at my house on Edgewater Terrace in Silver Lake. I was there for a while. And we had some great times and afternoons and of just... I was creating and he was creating. He's really the only man I ever did creative work with. He would... He'd often have to paint a bunch of paintings for his book and he would be in there painting and he would be writing too. And I would be doing my sculpture and the kids were running around and everything. But... Yeah. Yeah. It was... It was a very, very good time of just being creative together. And that's hard to find in a relationship where the two people are creating together as one, you know, in the same household. It's priceless. It's absolutely priceless. There's usually one creative and the other is working and miserable or something, you know. Yeah. So... But... So can you tell us a little... Everyone who cares to can know about Charles Bukowski's work. But we don't... We as listeners, we as the audience don't really know much about your work. Could you take a minute and just maybe talk about your work in that time frame you just described when you're living in Silver Lake? Yes. I started doing kind of a series of... Poets. I started... When I was there, I did the sculpture of Lawrence Ferlinghetti. I did A.D. Winning. You know, any poet that I thought was worthy or fell under my nose, I would sculpture them. And I started a process of... It was just an ongoing thing that I did one after the other. I did Robinson Jeffers. As a fact, on the way down here, I went by Carmel and I saw a Robinson Jeffers house up there that he'd made. I thought it would be in the woods and it's right in the middle of town. I says, geez. From his books, I got the idea this was in the woods. But the town is built up around his house. But I did that. I had a great sculpture going. It was a big one. It was a nude. I was going to do this nude like Balzac. Only he was sitting on a footstool, leaning over all drunk up. You know, he was nude, but he was all drunk and leaned over. And it was funny, but it collapsed in the middle. In one of... Between one of our fights, I had wet it too much or something. It collapsed and I never did put it back together. And I had the picture. I had the pictures for years and years. I was going to try and redo it, but I didn't ever get there. So it would have been great. Linda, it's been a minute or two since you and Charles Bukowski were together. You've gone on. You've raised children. You've lived your life. Do you want to just give us, bring us up to speed on your work right now? Just as a snapshot of where you are and where you've come from? Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you come to my house, you'll see about, oh, maybe 15, 20 nude men and women. I've been taking these classes in San Francisco. They're all sitting around in different poses, this way, that way, and every which way, looking at me. And I say, well, okay, what am I going to do with these nudes? Who wants all these nudes? Okay, well, maybe... The world is not appreciating my art. We'll work on that. I'm worried about... They might disappear into my daughter. If I leave them to my daughter, she might throw them to the goodwill or something. We'll work to make sure that doesn't happen. If people have questions, they can, of course, call in. We'll do our best to field questions. The number here is 800-893-9562. So if you have any questions for Linda about her life, in the 1970s with Charles Bukowski, or her life today, or somewhere in between this wonderful journey you've been on, we're happy to hear from you. And so we'll leave those phone lines open. I've got two or three Occupy. I was up there in San Francisco. Oh, we like Occupy stories, yes. These Revolutionary Poets Brigade, I've been part of their group, reading poetry. And I did two or three Occupy. Occupy sculptures. There's one that's got the guys dripping with complete... All over. And the other one says, Occupy peace, Occupy equality. Occupy peace. He's got a sign. There's a nude guy holding a sign saying, Occupy peace, Occupy equality. That's the solution. I believe it. I believe it. At the risk, I'm just going to take a deep breath, and I'm just going to ask the most cliche question in the world. What would Charles Bukowski think of the Occupy movement? Oh, I don't know. I think he would ignore it and go off to the track. I'm about a few horses. That's about what do you do. That's a good response. I told him earlier, I says, when I... I get too involved in there, they throw too much stuff at me that's going on around the world. I always say, I always remember Bukowski's quote where he said, humanity, you never had it from the beginning. And that's the truth. They haven't had it. That's very funny. Why don't we start to get... We're about halfway. I think we're in mid-flight with you and Bukowski. The novel women really, in his opinion, describes your relationship. But I'd like to, as we sort of stand here talking about your life with him, do you want to talk about your reaction to the novel? Because it was your love affair too. And I know this is, yeah, this is what your book is about. But yeah, do you want to just make one or two particular points? Well, I was so anxious to get this. I was so anxious to get this book out. And I think I spent the first month or two, maybe a month and a half under the covers. I didn't hardly get out of bed after I put it out. I thought, oh my God, do I want everybody to know all this about me? I had a bad reaction to my own book. And then I kind of got it under my belt. I said, oh, to hell with them. I... They can read the whole damn thing. Because I'm telling a lot more than most people tell, you know, about my life and sex life and everything else in this book. So, and some of my own relatives had had a horrible reaction. Like, oh, this is horrible you've written about this. Well, that must mean it's good. If people respond poorly, it means it's... It's the truth because people are terrified of the truth. Is there one thing you want people to keep in mind as they reach for that mouse to order your book? Is there one thing you want people to keep in mind as they thumb through their worn copy of Women and look for their favorite passage? Is there one thing you wanted to bunk about Charles Bukowski, the great American lover? Well, first of all, I... First of all, I want him to keep the loving above 50%, at least 50%. Let's try and keep the loving above that. So, you know, the balance is on the loving side. But Bukowski, he was a great lover, but his... I think him growing up, with the boils and, you know, and feeling ugly, that was his problem. He never did feel like he was somehow altogether there, you know. He could lose his... He would lose his confidence very easy, you know, or strike out at people who he thought was putting him down or something, you know. He could be really, really mean, even on stage he could be really mean. If you've ever seen him in front of an audience, he could reach out and slap an audience just pretty hard sometimes, too. But it was kind of a talent, too, because most people can't do that, you know. They can't affect... He'd get people so mad they'd get up and walk out and all kinds of stuff, so... But... The novel Women... really is a attempt to go through all the possible permutations of falling in love and falling out of love. All the different ways men and women can love each other, in bed, out of bed, from afar, up close, in the shower. Is there anything... You ended your relationship with Taras Bukowski, you moved to Phoenix, you moved on with your life. Is there... Is there anything in that final breakup that really sticks with you? What... What... is wrong with the book is that he took a really, really great love that was love, it really was, and diminished it. He diminished it by sticking it in the middle of all these women. It's like he was trying to diminish it. He... That was his... That was his kind of... Clause. That was his revenge, you know, almost. So, that's what upset me, that he could actually do that. And if you don't notice, after he left me, there's probably not a poem written about me after that. He cried once. He cried once on some show that somebody had him on. When he read a poem, he cried once on some show that somebody had him on. He cried once on some show that somebody had him on. He cried once on some show that somebody had him on. But that's... But if you look into his work, there's all kinds of poems about Jane. Oh, he loved Jane and all this. Not a word about me. You understand? After he left me, that was it. Boom. So, this was... This was really, if you'll forgive me for mixing metaphors here, this was the bluebird. The bluebird. You know, from his poem, the cherished thing that he hides and takes out at two in the morning and just gives just enough to sustain it so it doesn't die in his heart. That really was his love for you. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe that was. But I think, you know, I've read a whole bunch of different people who have come to me with that very poem and that. And I'm like, oh, that poem was, touched my heart. That was about me. I mean, they all thought it was, it's a really great poem, but it touched me when I read it too. I felt possibly that was about our love. You know, I thought possibly, yeah. But it wasn't mentioned. He didn't say. He didn't say. But Bukowski, he and I could have a lot of fun together. He was really, he was really witty, you know, his witty. And I could answer his wit back and forth. We could exchange wit back and forth, you know, for hours, you know, and make fun of a whole bunch of different things and people and life and everything else. He was very good as almost a comedian and a comedian. Part of him. There was, there was, along with all the other sides. So. What's, do you just maybe want to spend a couple minutes talking about the people that passed in and out of your life as a result of Charles Bukowski? A lot of, I mean, that was just a really rich and interesting time that you guys were living in. And a lot of interesting people. Yeah, there was a lot of, of, of people, a lot of poets and people coming by his place. And yeah, there was a, it was a, an interesting time. In fact, that's one of the reasons I put the head over at his place. I said, here's the head. You know, everybody's going to see this head at your place. So, so I, but, but the time you're living it, you, you don't think, well, this is a really interesting, rich and interesting life. You don't think that way somehow, you know, you think, what's going on? And he's doing this and he's, she's doing that. Looking, looking, looking back, looking back on your time in Los Angeles, who are some of the more interesting people that perhaps have not been as well remembered as they should be. And people should make an effort to really dig in and look at them. Artists, writers, poets, just people. We, he was friends with, with, oh, Paul Vangelisti, which, Paul Vangelisti's been pretty big here in town doing different things. And, oh, Hirschman, who's up in San Francisco now, was down here then. I knew Hirschman from then. And Neely Jarkowski is, he's a big poet up in San Francisco. He's got a big name for him. He's written quite a few books too. And John Thomas was, was around and about. And, and there's just, I don't know. I can't think of any more right now, but they're, they're in there. I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't know. We'll, we'll, we'll come back to that. I, I wanted to know if you wanted to talk about the, the role of fame in, in, in Charles Bukowski's life and how it, it impacted his work and, and your relationship. I don't, I don't mean to, to, to jump off a precipice on this one, but I, I, I, I feel like that, that, that, that was a component that was there. Well, I, I, I think that Bukowski, well, he knew he was going to be famous or was getting famous or, and he used to, he used to, when he was mad at me, he'd say, I'm the best man you'll ever meet in all your life and nobody's ever been as good and all this. But, I, I, I think another part of it, see, I had two children that were still in school and he wanted to do more, you know, you know, he, he didn't want to, the kids, he liked my kids and he, he was good with my kids and everything, but, but, he wanted to go with somebody, you know, he could go, I, I couldn't go places with him because I had to, I had to see about my kids all the time, you know, I couldn't go to Germany, he went to Germany with his Linda, I couldn't do that, you know, because the kids always come first and he knew the kids come first for me. I didn't, I, I didn't put my kids first. And, that's, and I think, and I've heard him say this, I wanted to, I wanted it all, I just didn't want some of it, I just, I wanted it all, see, in other words. So, I mean, after, John Smith told me recently that he, he got her to call me and find out, not long before he died, even, that he wanted to find out if I was happy or whatever, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, I'll never know, because I probably would never told her. But, but, I, I had another child after, after Bukowski, so, I had Scott. That's Scott. Scott likes him better than anybody. I don't know. I believe that. My son Scott. I believe, I believe that Scott is his greatest, greatest adventure, his advocate. In fact, Scott, Scott's the one responsible for this book, because he dug it out and printed it for my birthday. He says, and I, and I looked at it, I said, oh, I kind of like this. I guess, I guess I can be an author. Actually. So, you anticipate my next question. Let's talk about writing this book. You know, how, it just, it just came out. You published it six months ago. How long, how many years was it from the moment you decided, I'm going to write a book about Charles Bukowski to, to, to when Scott picked it up from the printer? It's been, I was working, writing it for years and years and years. And I, in fact, I more or less finished it way back then, you know, a couple, at least a year, two years afterwards. But I changed it. I changed it, improved it, and put more in it, and took some out, and this and that, and the other. I must have at least five copies of the original, of the original, five copies of the original. All different. Sure. And so, so, so like 1979, 1980, you were, you were. Yeah, yeah. It was basically done by then. I didn't change it too much after that. But what was, you know, what was, so, so you basically, you started with a collection of letters and poems of his. How, how did, how did that, how did that start? Well, you, they're sitting in a box. Well, I basically, went ahead, after reading his book of women, went ahead to dispute some of the stuff he put, put in women. You know, I actually, I was awfully mad to think that some of the stuff that he, who wasculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculculcul This is meant as a blow-by-blow response to the 1979 novel Women. Okay, that's really, really interesting. A lot of blows, a lot of blows. And a lot of good time. If I have any criticism of the book itself, it's that maybe toward the end I didn't get the loving in there enough, you know, because there was still loving going on between the passion of the breakups would happen and the passion of the make-ups, the break-ups and then the make-ups. There was passion in both of them. And I might not have got that as strong. I get it in my poetry, but I don't know if I got it in my writing, in my prose. You know, whenever I think about women, I just, you know, I think of, it's not Pekowski, it's the French novelist Stendhal. He wrote a similar book about all the different ways men and women can fall in and out of love. And he says at one point, the measure of a woman's love over a man is the amount of pain she can cause him. Well, that's one way of looking at it. And I bring that up because you've said again and again, and I want to reiterate, it's more loving than hating, but they're different sides of the same coin, I think. And so that said, that love and hate are very close. I was hoping you could read us the passage from your book about attempting to run Charles Pekowski over with a car with love. I don't know if I can read it with love. No, when you tried to run him over, you did it with love. Or jealousy, I don't know. Are they the same thing? You know, he used to actually like women to be jealous of him. He liked the jealousy. He termed jealousy as a proof that the woman loved him. He actually would say that sometimes. Those who look for tally sheets in the relationship are going to end up very unhappy. Okay, well, I'm going to read. I have been asked more times, did you really try to run Charles Pekowski over? And this is the incident where I really, really, I don't know if I really did try and run him over, but I tried to scare him anyway. Okay. Pekowski. Pekowski. Started disappearing in the afternoon, saying he was going to the grocery store. It happened two or three times. I've got to get some material for my columns, he told me one evening. I knew he was seeing someone. I could feel it all over him. I remember him talking about a woman on Hillhurst. He had halfway pointed out her place to me. He knew I didn't want to drink with him on school nights when the kids were home. I decided to drive down Hillhurst. Guess who was walking down the street with? Both arms full of bags from the liquor store. It looked like he was stocked up for the night. This VW thing can climb mountains, I thought. I suppose it can climb this little curb too. I jumped the curb, drove right up alongside of him, backed him up against the building. The beer and the whiskey went crashing to the cement sidewalk, glass and beer splattering. I just kept right on going. I was driving down the sidewalk, around the corner, between the lamppost and the building, and back into the street. The son of a bitch wanted something for his column and I'll give him something. I drove around the block. He had a neat stack of beer and a pint of whiskey that was unbroken. I jumped out and started smashing bottles. You son of a bitch! Smash! You're sleeping with her, aren't you? Smash! Are these your supplies for the night? Smash! Smash! I broke every bottle I could get a hold of. I jumped at the thing and whirled around the corner again. I was afraid someone might call the cops. When I drove by a third time, he had a broom and he was carefully sweeping up glass. He had one bottle set aside. I was still furious and I stopped again. Let's see. You have beer, whiskey, potato chips, and dip. Is that what you want? What takes you such a long time at the grocery store? Were you settling in for the night or did you want to fuck her and then come home for a moment? Did you want to fuck her and then come home for a moment? come home to me. We were just going to have a few drinks. You think you can live with me and be off screwing someone else? I don't think so. You've saved one bottle. I'll take care of that one too. I threw the bottle like a knife right through the glass door that went to her apartment. It made a perfectly round beer bottle size hole like a bullet through the glass. His refined older woman who peeled his eggs and his balls came running down the steps when she heard the glass break. What's going on? She cried. So you're the woman who's screwing my man. You want to be careful whose man you're screwing with. I chased her up the stairs. She had on a skimpy robe. I see she dresses for you too, I yelled at him. I turned and run up to the top of the steps. You're in your nightgown for my man. That's so cozy. I'll teach you a lesson. He lives with me and I started swinging my purse, which was the only weapon I had. And Bukowski ran up the stairs, got between us and I reached for her but only got a hold of her robe and she slipped out of it and ran with nothing on to the kitchen. Oh, for God's sakes, Bukowski, get her out of here. I'm calling the cops. Come on, let's go. He had an iron grip on me and he backed me down the steps. Get her out of here before someone, someone, how do you do that? I'm calling the cops. I'm calling the cops. I'm calling the cops. Before she hurts someone, you're goddamn right somebody will get hurt if they are fucking my man, I yelled over my shoulder. I dragged her robe back down the steps with us into the street. He pushed me back toward the thing. Get over there and drive, he yelled at me. He got in the passenger seat and I started the thing and spun around the corner the fourth time with my man. I don't remember it being a real good night for any of us. His car was on Hillhurst and he slept or didn't sleep at Edgewater Terrace. That's absolutely wonderful. That's absolutely wonderful. So this book, Loving and Hating Charles Bukowski, people can buy on your appropriately named website, Kiss Kill Press. We're back to the different sides of the coin. This, this is, this is fantastic. So this is just one wonderful story that people can expect to read in this book. Do you, Linda, do you have any readings in San Francisco or anywhere in Southern California scheduled that we can look forward to? No, I don't have any right now and tell them not to, well, they won't have the book. So that address in the book is wrong, I noticed, but that they're on the website. is right okay so they should they should go to the website and and and get the address um do you I think I think I think we've we've really delineated the problem space and and and touched all the bases is there anything you want to leave people with you've been really great and just putting it all on the table for us and and telling us like it is well I want people to know that I'm not trying to put a book Bukowski down and because I know he's a I know and I think he's a great writer and he's written some I mean his work stands alone you know he's written so much so and I was afraid that people might think that of me that I was just trying to put him down or something and that's not really really what I was trying to do at all in the book and what I'm trying to do is is to display what I know his his personality is to you know tell all of it tell all of what I knew about him the other women may know different things than I do and I don't they can have their share of the book I got the lion's share oh there you you you've done a great job I'm glad you did I'm glad you did I'm glad you did I'm glad you did get the lion's share and and God bless you for for shouldering that because Bukowski is a very important writer and it's it's obvious that that you carried him a great deal and I and and and you you're a very important person as we all are and and I really want to thank you for for the good work done what I think I did is I I gave him the impetus to stay alive you know and do his work you know because I think that's what I'm trying to do is I'm really grateful to my father who gave me his son who gave me his son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my son who gave me my Whatever it takes to give a writer positive feedback that he's doing good work in his writing. So good for you. God bless you. All right. I want people, I'm going to buy this book off of you right now as soon as we get off the air. I can't wait. Do you have any shows coming up? People are in San Francisco. Is there a gallery? No, but I'd like a bunch of them. But I'm in the process of moving. I don't know where I'm going or what I'm going to do. So I can't tell you because I don't know myself. That's fair. If people stay tuned on your website, if people check back on your website. If a gallery wants to do a show of Linda King art, I've got tons of art. You've got to put it out there, right? Putting it out there is half the battle. Good. I've got racehorse pictures. I've got nude men and women and heads galore. When I had... I had a bar in Phoenix. I had all the heads. My customers would say, somebody new had come in the bar and they'd say, she does head jobs. $200. And they'd go, what? $200 for a head job? Oh, here it is right there. There it is. See? It was an old joke that got very tiresome. Linda, I want to thank you. This has been a great interview. I appreciate your candor. I appreciate your courage. And mostly, I admire your spirit. You're just... You're one hell of a dame. I really... Bukowski was lucky. He was really blessed to have you in his life. Thank you. He's been dead 19 years already, if you can believe that. Linda, thank you for joining us. And please look us up if you're back in town. I'd love to interview you again. Okay. My new book. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.