Rick Telles on reality TV and photography

We'll be right back. I ain't doing nothing but talking shit. So y'all gotta like, you know, encourage me the whole way long. The whole way long, you know, encourage me the whole way long. Because I need encouragement. Yeah, what's going on, man? It's your boy Nestorius. You know the AKA, the Nestor. You know the Rodriguez. You know the Rodrigowitz. You know the Boombasticus, the Spasticus, Artisticus. You're listening to the Nestorius public radio show. You know what you're doing. We're here live usually on Thursdays. Thursday nights, weplayradio.com. So come check us out if you want. Live, if not, you know what you're doing. Download that shit. Subscribe to the show. Come to the website. Subscribe to other shows. Anyway, we have a great show tonight. Got my boy Rick Taz. What's going on, brother? Good, brother. How you doing, man? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. So Rick was on the show a few episodes ago with Murray. Murray Garrett, right? Yep. Murray Garrett, the photographer. What a photographer. Yeah, yeah. Unbelievable. He was Bob Hope's personal photographer for many years. Yep. So he wound up like, fuck, that dude wound up shooting everybody and their mother. And he's got contact sheets up the ass. And I spent a day with him in the back of his house. And there are photos that the world has never seen before. And I'm looking at these. I'm looking at these originals. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. No one's ever seen this picture. Yeah. Of Marlon Brando. Yeah. And it really is just. For every really, really good photo. I mean, for every really, really good photo, you have to look like a photographer probably took about 50, maybe 100. Yep. And some of those outtakes, the ones that didn't make the really good photo, whatever the hell that means, the published photo, whatever that means, there are some really good shit. There's some good shots. There's some good shots. And what's interesting, though. Is back then, you didn't shoot like you do today. Today, you're just. Because now. You couldn't do that. No, no, no, no. Film. Film. And you can't see in the flash. You had to like take the flash out. Yep. Get the flash back in. Yep. Yep. So it had to be sort of set up. You'd have to know the mathematics. You'd have to know the mathematics. There's no Photoshop. In fact, you wouldn't even be able to tell if the photo that you took was actually on point because you'd have to wait until the film was developed and printed and all that bullshit. I mean, right now. That's what's amazing. That's what's. Isn't it? Isn't it? That's great. But you know that. And they were in focus. I mean, everything. Well, you know, it's mathematics, right? The aperture, how fast you open the aperture and how much light you let in and how much, you know, that whole thing and composition and lighting and contrast and all that stuff. Shit that, you know, pretty much. What's interesting, you said not like today, pretty much everyone's a photographer today because they can. Right. Everyone. And by that, I mean, anyone can take a photo. You don't have to be. You don't have to be qualified to take a photo. Right. Right. Kind of like. Well, because in today, photographs represent something a little bit different than they did before. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Back then it was an event. Right. I mean, I mean, if you go back to the fucking beginning of photography, it's an event today. Motherfuckers take 50 million photos about it. Like nothing. Nothing. You know, selfies, which, which I don't know what the obsession is, but with the obsession with self is and with the. Like, here's something that, that. We started it many years ago. Yeah. Right. Unfortunately. No, no, no. Reality television. Right now. Right. We're winning into reality television. Right now. I was, I was turned on to, but I was turned on to the National Geographic's. What is it called? The National Geographic Travel Photographer of the Year. So, so there's a competition every year and they give like about nine prizes of some shit. And I'm thinking, man. I got some killer shots from my last trip in Cuba. Cause I, how I found out about it is cause I, I subscribed to this Cuba zine online that tells me what's going on and blah, blah, blah. And, and it came up that National Geographic and I'm looking at the photo that's, you know, of course the one photo that represents Cuba is one of the photos that's in the competition. And of course, anything to do with Cuba that's noteworthy, it'll show up on this blog. It doesn't matter what it is from, you know, airfares are going to come down. To whatever. And I looked at the photo and I'm like, man, I got way better fucking shots than that one. I mean, I do. I know. Not, not, not even, not even saying, not even saying like, like, and, and, and I do. And I, and I'm looking to have a photography exhibit, uh, exhibition of, of my work in Cuba. Because the thing about Cuba. There's so much to shoot there. So everywhere you turn. That's what I'm saying. The thing about Cuba is that every moment is a photograph, right? But you can't be in Cuba. And like, because you have to take everything in. This is my third trip, right? So, so, so my thing, my, my, my. I have film from 1999 that still has not been developed. You were telling me this. You were telling me this. It's in my, it's in my refrigerator and I've got to go and develop it because I still don't know what was on those. You know, you know, the, the, the, the, the, so going back to, to Murray, right? So the thing about photography is that you study something, right? In this case, in his case was. An actor, right? Right. A public figure. You study them. And subconsciously when you meet them, you have an idea of what might be great. You may or may not get that. You know what I mean? And then it's opportunity means preparation, right? You have the film, you have the camera, you have the lighting, you have the location and the permission, right? And he's like with Brando, that, that cat. That photo. Yeah. That cat wouldn't leave them alone. Right. And so he was like, cause Brando kept, I guess, pushing the cat away. He's like, no, no, no, no. Just leave it. Let him go. Let him do whatever he wants. Let him do whatever he wants. Right. And something candid will come up. Right. We're talking about. Probably the most famous one was the one on his shoulder. And the story behind that was that he went to do a shot, a shoot and Brando came out naked because he was busy in the back with somebody else. And the woman he was busy with turned out to be Murray's friend's wife, which is, you know, there's always stories and shit. You know what I mean? But anyway, that, that photo, that, that was a great episode with Murray Garrett. And I think, did he celebrate his 90th birthday yet? Was it 90 he was celebrating? Yeah. Or 95? I think it's 90. 90. 90, 80, something like that. No, it was 90. It was, it was, it was a solid. I gotta have Murray back on cause Murray, Murray got fucking stories. Holy shit. Oh, you can, you can spend hours with the guy. Yeah. Murray's got stories. Anyway. So, so, so, you know, Cuba's got millions of fucking, uh, uh, here, Cuba's one of those places where you, you know, you, you, you do your thing and, and meaning you, you, you explore as a tourist. But then if you go back. And you just sit and you just like walk amongst people and you just take it in. It's, it's a, it's a whole other ball game, you know? Anyway. So, so let's go back. So you said you had a whole slew of undeveloped film from when you were in Cuba. You were in Cuba. In 1999. Was it Road Rules? Road Rules. Road Rules. Okay. So Road Rules was a, one of the first popular reality TV shows on MTV, right? Where they followed. It was real world. It was real world and then Road Rules. Real world and then Road Rules. So real world. Did you work on real world? No, not, I mean, yes and no. And the fact that I helped them sometimes coordinate some things, but in terms of actually being there every day, no. You weren't? No. Okay. Because we were preparing for the next seasons of Road Rules and we were traveling. They were sort of like in one city. Right. We stayed and they kind of just, we were the traveling real world. Right. So we traveled all over the place. So, so Road Rules, if I remember correctly, you were telling me that you went to Cuba, what was that? In 98? 99. 99. And so these, these. We were part of the semester at sea. A semester at sea. Right. Okay. The season before, or two seasons before we had given it away as a prize for our show. And then they came and said, hey, why don't you shoot a season on the boat? And we're like, yeah, let's do that. You'd given what? The prize? Like whoever won? Semester at sea. A semester at sea. Because what happens on Road Rules is technically it's a competition show. Mm-hmm. So at the end of the episodes. Mm-hmm. The kids, you know, completed all of their tasks. Then they were given prizes. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it was, you know, packages worth, you know, $10,000. Right. It could be motorcycles. Right. You know, cameras and all kinds of stuff. And, and, and, and these were kids that were like, what? Just, they came from various backgrounds from all over the world. Yeah. It was like real world, but adventurous kids. But what, what, adventurous kids. Okay. And then. I gotta tell you, I remember the shows. I did not watch any of those shows. Mm-hmm. You know, I saw maybe one or two episodes. Mm-hmm. So I wasn't like. Like a fan or a follower of any of those shows. Mm-hmm. Sum up what, what like real world was about. Like what was the point of that show? Well, real world was about taking kids from many different backgrounds and putting them together. And just to see what would happen. Kind of like a social experiment. Mm-hmm. But they didn't, they technically didn't have things to do. Sometimes they had a job, but on Road Rules, it was more of a traveling adventure show. And each episode, the kids would be challenged some sort. They would have to do all kinds of things. And if they completed the challenges, all the challenges, the last episode, they were given. An award. These awards. Yeah. So give me a challenge that, for instance. Well, one of the ones that, that, that was sort of funny and did very well on air was we, by this time I had moved from being a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, a, you know, a, a coordinator, like a technical producer to a creative producer. Because I hated having to worry about like hotels and all this other stuff. That's what you were doing? Yeah. That's right. Technical producer? Right. Or, or production coordinator? Production coordinator. I was, you know, the first. So you're booking hotels, you're making sure that the airfare is covered, that everyone's got their passports. Everybody's got, yeah. And the cars are booked and everything's like that. But I wanted to be next to the camera. Mm-hmm. I wanted to affect what was going on in front of the camera. Mm-hmm. And so. Luckily, my, our executive producer said to me, I know you didn't really enjoy doing what you're doing. Because it was really hard back then. Sure it is. Because back then. Back then we were, we had a crew. Well. Any fucking time. No. When you got to book flights and hotels and all that shit for anybody. Yeah. And the crew. But back then it was a lot more complicated. But again, you know, what, what now is produced by maybe 50 people was produced by 23 back then. Mm-hmm. So, you know, the crews doubled and more help and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I moved from sort of, you know, production management to creative. And my job was to come up with the ideas. Mm-hmm. Of what to do. Concepts of the shows and stuff. Yeah. Like, what are we going to do? Mm-hmm. And so they would throw me in a room and say, okay, figure out what we're going to do next year. And I'm like, oh man. So me and a woman named Kathy Weatherall, she passed away unfortunately. Mm-hmm. In a car accident. She lost a piece of it. Yeah. Oh wow. Unfortunately. Out here in LA? Uh, no, I think it was in Phoenix or something. LA accidents are the worst. Man, it was horrible. Yeah. It's really sad. Mm-hmm. But anyway, she and I, they locked us in a room and they said, okay, come up with ideas of where we're going to go next year. And so our first season, we did a North American tour. And one day, one of our trade-out producers came into my office and said, okay guys, we have, I got six head of cattle. I don't know what you're going to do with them. But you got to do it. I got six head of cattle. Six head of cattle. What is that? Like six, six here? Six cows. Six cows. And I'm like, okay, I got six cows here. Now I had been working with an Indians in North Dakota. Mm-hmm. And we were trying to come up with something for our cast to do with these American Indians. Mm-hmm. And we're sitting around and, and I, there was, we were going to have them do dances and all this stuff and- Challenges. Yeah. They were going to learn, you know- How to weave something. Yeah. Whatever. All that. Mm-hmm. And then our show runner, our executive producer came in the office and said to me, he goes, so what's going on? I said, well, I've got these cattle here and then I've got the American Indians and da, da, da. And he goes, what if the cast had to deliver the cattle to the American Indians? And I'm like, that's a great idea. Yeah? So- Was it? The cast showed up to the, I think it was either the, the Senator or the Governor of the state. He gave them their challenge and said, here's six horses. The six of you have got to get those six head of cattle to the American, to the Indian reservation. Without any kind of training or experience. Nope. Good luck. You need to, you need to steer them and bring them. Yep. Yep. Just like a cattle wrestle. That's interesting. And so they had to do two miles. Mm-hmm. And they- That's like about 10 feet, right? Yeah. Because you cut and then you move the cattle. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. No, I had camera guys on horses- Following them. Facing backwards, shooting. Everything. I mean, this was very, very difficult to shoot. Uh-huh. And unfortunately they lost all of them. Oh. Some went into the river, some went into the thing. Really? So when you say they didn't have any kind of lasso's or anything like that, they just had to like guide them. Well, they had, yeah. You have to wrestle them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to know how to wrestle them. Right. Well, I found out later, it's easier to wrestle a hundred head of cattle than six. Because the masses of- Because the masses will follow each other. Because the masses will follow each other, yeah. Mm-hmm. So when the cast finally showed up to the nation- Without the cows. And totally deflated, the cows were in a pen because the American Indians had gone- Got them. And got them and brought them over and it was very fun and they ended up doing the dance together. Interesting. All was great. Interesting. But that's sort of the kinds of things that we were doing is we were trying to get really into unusual things that- These kids would not be- In this case it was Americana. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Americana. Americana. One of our cast members who actually is a Senator right now. Interesting. Duffy, Sean Duffy. I think he's a Senator or House Representative or something. He was on TV the other day because he's in politics. But at that time, he's from Wisconsin and he was like a lumberjack champion. Yeah. And so they had those lumberjack games in Utah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Climbing a tree with axes and shit like that. All of that stuff. Yeah. And so we stopped off at his hometown and they participated in their version of that. As it was taking place for the whole state- And this is part of the same episode? We did ours in the same season. Same season, just different episode. Got it. And so those were the kinds of things that we were doing. And this was Road Rules? This was Road Rules. Got it. And I did that for nine seasons. Nine seasons? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And you were in New York back in like 1990. At that time, you were an actor. I was an actor. Yeah. You were an actor. And so when you started out in life as Rick Taez, the young, ambitious Latino, did you set out to be an actor? Was that your goal? Yeah. I mean, I think so. I mean, I think that when I got to UCLA, I... I was a... 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It's another job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job job got there in 1980 in September and I started calling her and she wouldn't take my call for a couple weeks and I kept calling her then one day she I think she just got tired and said hold on and she gave me to the casting director really he's like hello and I'm like hi this is Rick Tej and he's like come on in this is here in LA this is here in LA so in like November of 1980 I I go to his office and I remember going through the gates for the very first time I mean I'm I'm a Mexican kid from Hayward man what studio um CBS no no it was um Disney ABC no it was on Fountain somewhere on Fountain like the old Fountain it wasn't Gower it wasn't Gower it was someone it might have been Gower actually okay it may have been Gower but anyway um so I get there I go downstairs I didn't go on to the set I went into their offices the casting the casting office we sat down he said you know um I have some extra spots maybe but I don't know and I said okay well you know just give me a call so this was on a Friday by the time I got home he calls me my fraternity friends are yelling out the window Tejas Tejas the ABC guys on the telephone and he's like somebody called in sick on Monday can you show up I'm like yep I'll show up bring a suit bring a thing about it I'm like great and then that Monday I go in and I go on set and I'm looking around and I'm like this is pretty cool this is awesome and I still don't realize what television really was I mean I didn't realize that were like real people I don't know what I was no no no of course of course no one realizes no and and I'm sitting in the green room and they watch General Hospital at noon and so I'm sitting there eating and all of a sudden I'm looking around and everybody that's on the television is in that room. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Um. Right, right, right, right. Rick Springfield. Yeah. That was his first day. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I'm like, holy smokes. This is like real. Yeah, this is real. Holy smokes. I mean, so I went up to this actor and I said, how do I do this? Wait a minute, but you were hired as an extra. Okay. But I said, how do I become an actor? Oh, okay. And he said, go study the theater. Ah. And I said, okay. And so the very next day, I went and I signed up for some class at UCLA. And that's when I started getting into acting. Yeah. It was that way. You can learn an act in three easy steps, starting West Side Story as a Chicano, man. Interesting. And that's how I really got into this business was because I was fascinated. I've never heard this story, by the way. I know you for how many fucking years? 20-something years. 20-something years. Dude. Dude, that's amazing. Yeah. And that's how Denise and Dolores. Fucking one dot to another dot to another dot. Okay. So you went to UCLA. That's why my whole life has always been about just say yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just say yes. Doesn't matter what it is, just say yes. One thing I know for a fucking fact about you is that if you're interested in something, you'll ask, how is that done? And if someone says, well, you have to do this, this, and this, next thing you fucking know, you signed up for this, this, and that. And so that's always... That's always been inspiring to me and admirable. Because where I come from, right? Like, you would ask, how do you do that? And what I'd get was, don't bother with that. Like, I'm serious. And so I never had that. You know what I mean? I never had that intuition, that sharp tool. You know what I mean? Because you need to have that sharp tool. You need to be able to say how... Okay, and I'll do it. Right. Right? Well, I've had some, you know, teachers along my life. Right, right. You know, hey, not go ahead, just go do it. No, I've had teachers too, but it's just like, my default mechanism has never been... I mean, I'm the antithesis of that. So I've always had... That's always been my struggle. Right. You know what I mean? So you're in UCLA. How do you get from that? I'm assuming you did some more extra work on that show. No. No. No, it was the only time. That was it. That one time, that was it. Yep. And then, so then how do you get from that to Loving? Because that's where, I mean, had you done... Loving is a soap opera that you were one of the leads on. Yes. And Loving ran on, what was that, an ABC show also? ABC. ABC. Yeah, shot on the 66 in the West End. Yeah, in New York City. In New York City. So from that... Actually, we're The View now shoots in that studio. It was our studio. From that extra job that you had to UCLA, taking the class. I'm assuming you graduated UCLA. And my degree was in economics. Economics, that's good. And I couldn't take any real acting classes because I wasn't a theater arts major. And so I took as many as I could without being a theater arts major. Elective ones. Right. Yeah. Right. And then I started studying in Hollywood with a woman named Estelle Harmon. And she turned me into an actor. And what ended up happening is I ended up meeting Benita, who is now my wife. Her and her sister did a movie called Three Amigos. That was with Steve Martin and... Martin Short and Chevy Chase. And Benita played Chevy Chase's love interest. Interesting. And I had just met them right when they had finished it. It hadn't come out yet. And so she and I started dating. And her older sister ended up... Prior to us meeting, she graduated from RADA, from the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts. Wow. And I asked her to help me with an audition piece. And both Benita and I got accepted to Lambda. And so we ended up leaving for a year to go study Shakespeare. And that's in London. In London. And what happened was... And I started hearing about Hollywood, but I knew that I needed to get away. Because if I was going to go to school here and I was going to hear about auditions, I wouldn't finish. And so I was like, I got to leave. And so I ended up leaving. And when I came back, I don't know how this happened, but Mary Alice Bunim and John Murray had just gotten together. And who were they? Two producers. And Mary Alice became a very, very dear friend of mine. And she was the youngest... The youngest executive producer of a soap opera. And John came from news. And so, hence, reality television. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Hold on. I didn't put... I didn't put... I didn't put... I didn't put the... The speaker. The speaker. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Because this is where it's happening right here. This is like the executive producer. That's right. So you meet the executive producer. Sorry about that. So there's... This is... Hold on a second. That's an Astoria's public radio show. Shit happens right on the spot. Sometimes you fuck up and it's okay. It's okay. All right? That's how it is. Hold on a second. We got... I haven't done any big ups. Hold on a second. Big the fuck up to fucking up. Okay? All right. So you meet the executive producer of a soap opera. No, no, no. Yes. So at that time, Mary Alice had already finished producing soaps. She had gotten together with John and they were trying to figure out projects to do together. And they were put together, a soap opera producer and a news producer. Hence, cameras on the shoulder for reality television. And so this was before reality even happened. And this was in 1988. And they were doing a show and they were auditioning. And I somehow got into the callbacks. And I didn't have an agent, but I don't know how I got in. Did you? Did you? Did you? Did you audition for the first round? No. Or you just went right to callbacks? No, I went right to callbacks. Interesting. And so after my audition, she said, where have you been? And I said, well, I was in London studying. And so they gave me the part. Just gave you the part. So I got the part. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you went straight to the callback. I'm assuming you did a great job. Yeah. They just didn't say, where have you been? No, no, no, no, no. Okay, you got the spot. After I did my audition. Because that's how you got into Lambda, by the way. Yeah. They only had two spots for Spix. And they were like, he looks Spanish, she looks Spanish. Fuck it, we don't have any of those guys in London. In London, let's get him in there. Lambda. It's London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts. But we're going to call it Latino Academy of Mumba Jacks and Dada Freaks. So, okay, so you got the callback and you got the job. Yeah. Now, this was for Loving? No, this was for another show. And so, and this is in 1988. The show didn't go. Wow. And I stayed friends with Mary Alice. And I kept calling her and taking her to lunch. Wow. And then one day, at the end of 1989, I came home from playing baseball on a Saturday afternoon. And I get this phone call. And it's Mary Alice. And she says, Rick, I'm in New York. Give me a call. And I called her back. And she says, hey, I'm now an executive producer of Loving. And I guess she had to go. They needed to work and they weren't getting projects sold. And so, they ended up taking another. She took another job. They offered her the job. Right. Because she was creating and developing here. And nothing was happening. They weren't selling anything. So, she had to take a job. So, she went back. And she says, you know, you have to go through the audition process. But, you know. There's a part that I think you might be right for. Right. And so, you know, two weeks later, I'm packed up. And I've signed a three-year contract. And I move to New York. So, you had to. This is, what, 89? This is the beginning of 90. 90. February of 90. Okay. So, you had to audition in New York? Or were you able to be put on tape? No, they put me on tape here. And then they flew me for a screen test. They flew you? But I was the only one that they flew to screen test. Well, because you played a laboratory scientist or something, right? A chemist? Right. No, what did you play? I did. Yeah, he was a chemist. A chemist. A chemist. Well, I mean, that's easy. He worked for like. But that's easy. Yeah, but he started out like this lombada. Yeah, but that's no spec chemist motherfucker. No, but he had like the waft hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How you doing? Listen, would you please stand over there? Because I need to meet. They started off with the Spanish accent. And by the end it went away. Yeah, I need to make something for you, baby. I need to make something that will loosen you up a little bit. Have a seat. Let me talk to you a little bit, huh? So they flew you into New York for the screen test. That's a good sign right there. Yeah, no, no. That's a good sign. If they fly you in for a fucking screen test, no one flies anybody in for those screen tests. I think that stopped after a year. They don't do that shit. I had a little tiny room. I had a little tiny room that oversaw the, that overlooked the Central Park West. Central Park West. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was nice. That's 60, 66, 67th Street, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so that's amazing. So, so then Loving was from 90 to what? 91, 92? 93? It was three years. Three years. So 90 to 93. 90, 91 and 92. Okay, 92. 90, 91 and 92. Yeah. So, so yeah. Okay. So you talk about, so you talk about being, being in, in, in, uh, you talk about being, being. So, no, but, so what ended up happening though is after, my left ear kind of went dead here. Yeah. It happens sometimes. Okay. So what ended up happening was after like five or six months of being on the show, Mary Ellis calls me in her office and says, um, I'm going home. Back to LA. Back to LA. And I'm like, why? She says, well, John and I just sold, um, a show to MTV. And I'm like, really? What, well, what is it? She goes, well, we're going to put it on. We're going to put these kids in a house and follow them around with cameras. Unbelievable. And I'm like, and then what? That's what I was thinking. And then what? And? And they're like, well, that, that's the show. And I'm like, okay. And so when your executive producer leaves, you're that, they're like your cheerleader. This is the executive producer on Loving. On Loving. But Loving, Loving kept going. Sure. But they bring in another executive producer. No, I know that. I know that. And so, so, so before. There are financial reasons that executive producers bring. They bring in characters. Of course, of course, of course. Before we go into, before we go into, um, um, um, um, real world. Right, right, right. Right. Before we go into that and executive producing, I want to just finish the Loving thing. Okay. Because when you said, you know, you were in the green room and this is the first time that you realize, oh, wow, these are people on TV. I had a similar experience, right? We, our film was, was nominated for some award with the entertainment industries, um, council, something. And it's about, it's, it's, it's a council within the entertainment industry, a separate, a separate independent organization that authorizes or approves realistic use of, you know, uh, drug, drug use in movies or, so for instance, if you're doing a movie about, uh, drunk driving, they'll say. That's not real. That's not real. This is how you should do it. That, that type of stuff. So our first movie acts of worship was nominated for that. We're at CBS studios on Fairfax, right? Oh yeah. And for the first time I had never been in a big, uh, you know, thing like that. And I'm like, oh shit, this is what it looks like when you're in it. In a screening room. When you're in it, you're in the audience, right? You're not, you're not, you're not at home watching it. You're in it. And, and, and, and, and it feels real, but it, but it, but there's no magic, right? The magic is God. You know what I mean? So, so, so I just want to say, I didn't know, I didn't know any actors. You know what I mean? I, again, as a kid. As a kid. Lawrence Olivier talks about the magic that happens between the glass and the film. Because when he was directing Marilyn Monroe, he was, I read his book and he talked about how he would look and he'd be like, she's horrible. But then you look on the film and you go, she's brilliant. Right. But she's horrible. Right. But she's brilliant. There's something going on between the glass and that film. Some people have that. That just. Some people have that. It happens. Some people have that. Yeah. Some people definitely have that. So, so, so I, you know, I remember when we first met, we, we went on, we went for Thanksgiving. I'll never forget this because this was great for me. It was, it was really nice. You were very nice. A very nice guy at the time. You know, we went to. At the time I was a nice guy. Well, you're like one of the nicest guys. I know you're, you're, you're, you're a sweetheart. I fucking love you, Rick. You know that. But I mean, at the time we went to, to DC and you know, I don't think, I'd never been to DC. Right. Never, never been to DC. Went to DC, went to museums. We went to the fucking, the mall. The mall. The mall. You know, and I remember being in a museum. And I haven't been back and I want to go back. Yeah. Yeah. And this, this, this, this African-American security guy, I'll never forget because your character's name was Rio and I've never watched Loving. I had never watched Loving up until this point. And she goes, Rio. And like. They're all real quiet too. They don't talk. Yeah. They're all quiet. They don't know what's up. She's fucking lit up. When you pass by it, like you were like, yeah, you, you kind of like somewhat embarrassed, but you know how to handle it. And I was like, what the fuck was that? What is Rio? What is she talking to you for? What the fuck are you talking about? Not what is she talking to you, but like, what the fuck was that, Rick? Could you, could you care to elaborate? I told you I was an actor. What restaurant do you work at? Exactly. Exactly. You, exactly. You're an actor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Whatever. Whatever. You know? So, so. That's funny. Yeah. It is funny. So, so that, so I, then I watched. I watched it a couple episodes of, of, of Loving. You're like, hey. No, no, no. I, again, I never. He gets a check. I never watched a fucking soap opera in my life. So, I mean, I watched it. I knew you. I thought that, wow, that's interesting. So now, let's fast forward to, to, to the real world, right? Because I hadn't, obviously after that you left, right? Or your, your contract expired? My contract, the, the, the woman who was my wife did a movie called Witness with Harrison Ford. Mm-hmm. And she. She was leaving to go pursue her film career. Her film career. And my character was kind of just left in limbo because she was my connection to the whole family. To the story, yeah. And so we were just left. There was a joke. It was like we went camping and never came home. Right. That's what happened. So we're still out in the woods somewhere. So now you came out to LA because. So, so I ended up. Mary Ellis was, was executive producing Real World. Right. And so she brought you on, on some level? She had told Matt Kunitz, who was. Was a producer in her company and gave him his first shot producing a two hour movie for NBC called High School Reunion. Mm-hmm. And so he called me and said, hey, Mary Ellis says that you want to, that you've been in production. Do you want to? Because I had told her when I was in New York that I just didn't want to be an actor. I wanted to do other things. Interesting. And I was really fighting to get into the director, into the control room. A producer. Yeah, I wanted to get into the control room. Mm-hmm. And they finally agreed. They agreed to let me get in there. But anyway, so I, so Matt said, you know, you know, we can pay you $500 a week. It's a six day week. And there's no overtime. And, you know, I was making a lot more money than that. But I said, okay. And I took it. You were making a lot more money than that as an actor. As an actor. Oh, of course, of course. But, you know. $500 a week, dude? Gross. For six days, for six days. Yeah, gross. 12 hour days. Oh, yeah. Gross, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but that's. But that wasn't the point. You're training. Yeah, yeah. I was. I mean, you know, we joke about it, but, you know, BMP, we called it. It was really, you know, it was your film school. Mm-hmm. It was your film school. You learned about what it was. That's remarkable, dude. To make these, to make these shows. That's remarkable. Because there was no blueprint. Blueprint. No blueprint, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, nowadays, everybody talks about, oh, let's do an OTF. Well, you know, we came up with that. An OTF. An OTF is on the fly. Okay. Okay. That was an interview that's separate from. A sit-down, nicely lit interview. Set up, yeah, yeah. An OTF is like something like, you know. It's happening right now. Yeah, and we pull you off the side and say, okay, tell us what just happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was an OTF, and we didn't know what to call it. So, you know, one of us called it an OTF. You know what the interesting thing is? That when I went to college, I went to get an associate's degree in a program called Corporate and Cable Communications. So, I had to learn a three-camera setup. Yep. Electronic news gathering, so we'd go on the street and interview people and stuff like that. So, I also was interested. I was interested in the behind, you know, the scene production stuff, but I never really pursued it. Right. Because I was, I've always been, you know, an entertainer, performer, you know, blah, blah. Right, right, right. And so, you know, it's kind of like, but it's good to, I mean, to have both perspectives of it makes you better at both, actually. Absolutely. At either. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So, because one does go with the other, and very, very few actors actually know how it happens from behind. You know what I mean? Sure. Sure. If you understand the technical aspects. It makes you a much better actor. Oh, sure, sure, sure. TV and, you know, the whole thing. So, let's fast forward, because I think, dude, I, you know, I've known you for fucking 20, like, fucking almost 26 years, and I never known this story, you know what I mean? Because you don't sit down. No, we don't sit down. This is what I love about having, you know, a one-on-one interview with people, because you get to, for a moment, just get to know about someone's life. You know? So, I had lost contact with you, and I think this must have been around the time that you were doing Road Rules, because I remember this was in the beginning of the internet, because I remember we had AOL. Took you 500 fucking hours and shit, but we were talking, and I think, was it your mom? And you used to buy it based on the amount of time you were going to connect. But your mom had passed. Yes, in 1998. 98. 98. So, you were doing Road Rules then? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was towards the tail end of it. Yes. Yeah, because I hadn't spoken to you in forever, and I don't know how the fuck we connected. 93 or something. It would be an email, via email, and I remember you and I having a conversation about your mom, and you were upset, destroyed the whole nine yards, and again, I lost contact with you again. Yeah, for years. For a few years, yeah. Because I was traveling a lot. Yeah, you've been traveling. I mean, all of 90s, I was all over the world. That's when I went to Cuba and all over. Yeah, yeah, from like 98 to 2005, we had kind of like lost, because when I came out to LA, one of the first people I wanted to connect with was you because you were already out here. You know, I came out here. Yeah, I want to be stand-up, an actor. You know, the whole thing. And all that stuff takes, you really have to want to do something to pursue that one thing. There's a lot of fucking people out here. They're comedians, they're actors and stuff like that. Less than 1% have what it takes. Not the talent, what it takes. The dedication to keep doing it. To trudge through. Yeah, because it's hard. But you, it seems to me like everything, all the dots pretty much fell in front of you. Wow. Which is interesting. At the time, it didn't feel like that when you look back, yeah. But it did. But it kind of slowly... Sure, sure. Because I just kept saying yes. Sure, sure, that's amazing. So you, after Road Rules... Because people ask me all the time, when did you quit acting? And I never quit. Right. I just got busy doing other things. You just haven't been offered another part. Yeah, well... Because I was busy directing. Yeah. And I was busy producing. So you started directing Road Rules and you started producing Road Rules and you started developing the content. Our own shows. Our own shows. Okay, so I want to focus on... We have about 15 or so minutes. I want to focus the last 15 minutes on that. Okay. On, for instance, what Mary Ellis did, executive produced The Real World, and how you evolved into that yourself. Because you were doing Road Rules and then... Mm-hmm. How long after that did you come up with the idea to do Surreal Life? Well, that was in... Because that's your show. Well, I was part... It was three of us. Three other guys. Three total guys. Three of us, yeah. Was that Brass Ring you were involved in? Brass Ring and Mindless Entertainment. That was the two production companies. Yes. Yes. And we came up with Mind Ring Entertainment. Right. And that produced Surreal Life. Surreal Life. Yeah. And that was a concept that was developed by the three of you guys. Correct. And you had a bunch of ideas at that time. Yeah, it was based on a stovetop commercial that was... Mr. T was making breakfast... A stovetop stuffing? Yeah, no. He was making breakfast for... Henderson? What's her name? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jefferson's wife, Florence Henderson. Florence Henderson. His maid. And it was, well, what if that was real? What would they talk about? And so Surreal Life was really taking people that... That were notorious in the news for whatever reason. They had been famous at one point. Correct. And... And they were in the news after that for fucked up things. And they didn't know each other. And they didn't know each other. But they only knew what they knew by what the media said about them. Well, once they got together, it was a completely different thing. And so that, to me, was the love of the show. Was that. Was all of a sudden... The discovery of it. Yeah, the discovery of each other. And knowing, wow, you're nothing compared to what I thought you were. I have to go back and watch those. I have to go back. That's the truth. Because those things were... That's kind of like the beginning of interesting and entertainment-based reality shows. Because most of those people had some sort of affiliation with entertainment and some fame. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So give me one of... And one of the ideas... One of the shows that we did before that was a show called Fear, which was on MTV. And that was about taking kids and putting them in haunted locations. And that was my childhood fears. And I had to come up with challenges and I'd make them do the things that I was just scared. Shitless. That you would be afraid of. Oh, my God. And so that show did very well. Really? And it was a very difficult show to do. But we did 17 episodes and it did really well. I mean, everybody loved it. Really? Yeah. We talk about it to this day. Really? Oh, yeah. Really? I'm assuming some of that stuff is on YouTube somewhere, right? Yeah, I think so. So, Surreal Life, you did how many seasons? How many episodes? You did a few seasons, right? I think there were six that were produced total. Six seasons. Six seasons. That's a big deal, man. And that was on MTV. Yes. And so, and then did it go to VH1 or was it at VH1 first? Initially, it was done at... And you know what's interesting is when we were shopping the show, everybody would say to us, there's no way people say yes to you guys. And we were like, just give us money. Just give us casting money. Right. Casting? Just give us a little bit of money to hire a casting director. Uh-huh. And we'll show you who we can get. Uh-huh. And finally, Keith Cox at the WB said, okay, we'll give you a little bit of money to go cast. Like how much? Like roughly? 40 grand or something. That's a lot of money back then. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was. But you had to hire staff. Sure, sure, sure. No, I'm not saying it's a lot of money to do the job, but I'm saying it's a lot of money for somebody to just throw at you. Sure. And go here. Yeah. Yeah. And we ended up getting our cast and doing two seasons. What was the first? What was, who was the first episode? When you say getting your cast, so it's a house. Yes. Yes. And who was on? It was MC Hammer. Uh-huh. Interesting. Yeah. What's her name? I'm blanking on all their names right now. But anyway, so we got this cast together and they were awesome. I mean, they really sort of, they bonded. And we came up with all these different ideas that was almost like based on the Brady Bunch. Like, you know, we did a backyard talent show. And they made cookies for their neighbors. And the neighbors just thought it was really just, you know, a crazy house. Okay. Surreal life. I always say surreal world. No, no, no. And I know it's- We had to change it. I know, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. It was a surreal world because you had a conflict of title with Mary Ellis, right? Well, I mean, it was close. Yeah, yeah. So surreal life, you had Gabrielle Carteris, MC Hammer, Corey Feldman, Emmanuel Lewis, Jerry Math. Manthe. From Survivor. Molly Crew Vocalist, Vince Neil. Vince Neil, yeah. And Brandi Roderick. Roderick, yeah. Interesting. Okay. Interesting. And so, you know- Wait a minute. Season two, you had Ron Jeremy, Vanilla Ice, Tracy Bingham, Trishel Canatella- Trishel. Eric Estrada, of course. Tammy Faye Messner. Yep. And Vanilla Ice. So these things- And when Ron Jeremy and Tammy Faye became friends- You know what? I remember that season. That was, in my mind, what the show was all about. I remember that because Tammy Faye was such a fucking prude and religious left conservative. Well, we thought- Right. Correct. That's what we thought as the media. I remember that season because it was like, oh shit, porn star? And she was nothing like that. Exactly. Interesting. She was a sweetheart. I gotta watch these. I gotta go back and watch these. And she was really taken by Ron and she had no idea what he did for a living. She didn't. No. Come on. No. She had no idea. He's a nice guy. And he was a nice guy. He's a nice guy. And they got along great. Yeah, he's a nice guy. They really protected each other. So okay, season three. Okay, season three is kind of like what I remember. So season three, you had Charo, Dave Coulier, Flavor Flav, Public Enemy, Jordan Knight, Bridget Nielsen, and Ryan Starr. And that's where Flavor Flav and Bridget Nielsen got together, right? Right. And Bridget Nielsen used to date Sylvester Stallone. Bridget Nielsen was like a big fucking he-man model. So, and gorgeous in her own right. You know what I mean? Either you think she's pretty or not, but she was gorgeous in her own right. And Flavor Flav is like, what the fuck hit that motherfucker? Right? And I remember seeing episodes of those two guys. And then when they got together, I'm like, oh no, what the fuck is that? And that really came out of the news. That shit was out in the news all the time. And I believe that spawned a spinoff, right? Flavor of Love. Flavor of Love. Yes. Yes. And that was between Flavor Flav. Flavor Flav and Bridget Nielsen were together, right? Correct. Correct. Interesting. And that was your show. Well, yes. And again, we had some legal issues. At that time, I was having back surgeries. You know, we had had, at that same time, we had four other shows, three other shows on the air. You and your producing partners. Me and my partner, yeah. We had Next Action Star. We had Surf Girls. I think I remember Next Action Star. We had Hitchhiker Chronicles. And, you know, I'm in back surgery and traveling around the world. And it was very, very difficult. Right. That was a difficult time. So let me get to a certain part of your career. These guys, and I don't know if you want to get into this, but this is part of your life, right? So these guys, apparently, at some point, you're on vacation, for lack of a better way of putting it, behind your back, they say, listen, we're thinking about, you know, just doing this ourselves. Let us buy you out. And they give you a certain amount of money. And then there are... There are spinoffs and all sorts of shit of these. And then it's kind of like a breach of contract of sorts. Kind of. And you wind up having a case against these guys. Yes. And I remember you were going through this fucking legal battle. How long was that case? Like four years? Seven years. Seven years? Holy shit. I'm not going to get too much into it. If you guys are interested in this, Google Rick Tejas, T-E-L-L-E-S, lawsuit. And all the information is out there. It's kind of crazy. So seven years. After that, the case was decided in your favor. Correct. Because they omitted that they had another show in syndication or they had a spinoff and stuff like that. And that original was your... You know, you were part of the original show. It was all based on surreal life. Surreal life. Yeah. Yeah. So they did all these other shows, which technically you should have had some of that as well. So that's pretty much what happened, which congratulations for that. I know that was seven fucking years of your life, man. I remember that. Seven years. Seven years. Holy shit. I've totally forgot. It seems like... It's a long time. It's a long time. Yeah. It was a lot of stress. Yeah. When, you know, legal battles, you don't want to be in front of them any time. Well, especially some shit like this. You're talking about a lot. A lot. But you got fucked. I mean, you know, you got fucked. And at the end, justice was served and you got, you know, you got compensated for what you should have gotten, which is good. You know? I mean, I'm very happy for you about that. So, so selling a show, right? We talked about a while ago. But there are basics. Yeah. There are basics about selling. Yeah. Selling shows and trying to come up with ideas. So you have an idea. So you have an idea right now. You have an idea. You and I have an idea. It's a great idea, right? So we want to do what? We want to get a sizzle reel. We want to get like some sort of... The first thing, you know, people come to me all the time with ideas and I, you know, and I think to myself, A, you know, it's a good idea, but are there episodes? Is it, is there an arc? Is there just more than the idea? Yeah. Is it just, is it just one thing or is it, you know? Because sometimes people come up with ideas and it would make a great one hour documentary. Right. Right. But not... A fucking season of like 15 episodes. Correct. Right. Or 10. It's usually 10 or 8 or 12. Let's say we have a nice idea with 10 episodes. So the first step would be to get... A sizzle reel. A sizzle reel, which is what? Like a one to two minute video presentation? Yeah, like a presentation. And it basically, you know, explains the concept of the show. You know? You get the concept. I watch it. I'm like, I get it. It's about this. It's about that. Yep. Okay. So once you do that and just getting a nice sizzle reel could cost... Well, anywhere from $5,000 to $25,000. Right. You know, what you, you know, how much you want to put into it. Right, right, right, right. And the content and the whatever, the licensing and whatever images and blah, blah, blah. Yep. So you get a nice... So you have to get that all cleared. You got the music cleared just in case because a lot of times they'll use portions of that in the first episode. Right, right. Interesting. So, okay. So you, so we have a nice sizzle reel. We invested the money. We got a nice two minute sizzle reel. I can show it to anybody. Anybody I show, they look at it. They go, yeah, I get it. Wow. That's interesting. And the good thing about having a sizzle reel is because, you know, I also worked at the network. So I worked at SyFy. So I really started to understand the significance of this sizzle reel because what happens is, let's say I come to you. You're an executive at the network and I pitch you my idea. Okay. But let's say you're not a great pitcher yourself. Mm-hmm. Now you have to turn around and go pitch my idea. To your boss. To your superiors, yeah. So I want to make sure that it's the best pitch possible. Right. Well, I want to take it out of your hands. Right. I want to give you a tape. Right. It's self-contained. So you can just show it to your boss. Right. So he gets. Because you get one chance. That's it. You get one chance. And we're in a visual medium. You're in a visual medium. So. And a short attention span visual medium. Yeah. So it's not 10, 15 minutes long. One to two minutes. It has to be concise. Three at the most. Three the most. Okay. So then how do I go about. If you can't tell your idea in three minutes, it's not. Back to the drawing board. So how do you go about. Okay. So we have a sizzle reel. Two minute. It's really tight. You get the show. It's really interesting. And so what's my next step? Who do I go to? Well, you have to figure out what your audience is. Who your audience is. Okay. You know, because each network is really a different audience. Has their demographic. Yeah. They have their demos. Yeah. And so, you know, if it's a, you know. A travel show, let's say. Well, then you go to Travel Channel. Obviously. Obviously. Travel Channel. Or the American show. American network or. American movie classics. AMC. Well, not movie classic, but. AMC is originally American movie classics, but AMC has been doing original programs. Yes. True. More scripted. More scripted. Than reality. Right. Which, but okay. So even reality. Reality was somewhat scripted. Well. Right? No, not really. I mean, people say reality. We don't put like lines in. People's mouths. Right. But. But you have to produce. So let's say you're doing real world and Susie comes up and says, you know, I'm going to break up with my boyfriend. We said, well, hold on. We have cameras on Thursday. So don't break up with him until Thursday. You know? So I'll tell you what. Why don't you. Well, we'll go do it at the top of the mountain and there'll be a nice restaurant. Well, we set up there and then we'll shoot it and then you can tell whatever you're going to do. Got it. Got it. But. But. But we're not saying, hey, go pretend this guy's your boyfriend. Got it. Got it. Got it. Break up. You try to orchestrate or already create circumstances so that. So that you can get the maximum effect out of it. Correct. Got it. The most impact. Right. So. And sometimes you'll come up with ideas that, you know, it's almost like having actors and they're doing improv and you throw in certain things that you know. To guide them this way or whatever. Will. Will. Entice or make it better. Entice or make it better. Story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So. So. So if you're afraid of spiders, obviously you're going to go in the room of spiders. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. That kind of thing. Right. So the best thing to do is if I was in surreal life is to say, I'm afraid of pussy. And then you put me in a room with a lot of pussy. And I'll be like. A lot of lions and tigers. Stop it. Get it away from me. Stop it. I'm afraid of threesomes, Rick. Please. Don't put me in a room with threesomes. Ah. Stop it. All right. So. So let me go. Line. Boom. Line. Cut. Listen. This is not working out here. So. So let me. So let's. Let's. Let's. Let's tighten this up a bit. So let's say we have the network. But what I wanted to get at more like. And hopefully you have more than one network. Right. Right. Because you don't want to develop a show. Just for one network. Just for the travel channel or history channel. Yeah. No. You'd want to develop something or have an idea that's viable in two or three. Two networks. At least. And if one doesn't have interest. You can at least go to the other one. Which leads me to the Amazon and the Netflix. Because those guys are now producing. Unscripted. Unscripted. And scripted content. And so there's. There's a lot of opportunity for, you know, new content. So now. So. So. So. So I bring. I bring my sizzle reel to. To somebody at one of those networks. They like it. They show it to. To their heads. Well, first. First. You know. If you are a. Open producer. Then yeah. You would go straight. But if you had a sizzle reel. And you've never produced a show before. Then go find a company. You know. And you can go online. And look to see. You know. What companies are producing shows for the network you need to get to. Right. And go talk to those people. Right. Because there are a lot of production companies that are already doing it. Yeah. They're always looking for good ideas. Right. And if you have a good sizzle reel. And they already have the connection. They may buy the product. Absolutely. Straight out. And you get your money. And you don't have to be dealing with the day-to-day bullshit. Yep. And you'll get producer credit. And show credit. Whatever you negotiate. Yeah. Yeah. Well I mean. It's not as simple as one, two, three. And there's not one specific route. That one can go. There are so many different variables. Absolutely. Absolutely. You've. Since. Since. Man. Since I've known you. You've been involved. In a lot of reality-based production stuff. Right. Sure. Are you still involved in creating content? Sure. Yeah. I'm always looking for good ideas. And I'm always. I'm always. Trying to. Come up with. That's why you and I don't talk anymore. Because I've. I've expended all of my good ideas to you. And you're like. Dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not talk anymore about that shit. It's. You know. It is. People come up with ideas. But they forget. To see where the market is. Right. You know. Right. Who are you selling this to? Yeah. And I. And I. I kid with people. But it's absolutely true. I view myself as a fuller brush guy. And I. Gotta know. What kind of brushes you need. And. I'm not going to go. To. A network. And try to sell them a show. That has nothing to do. With their demographics. Right. And so. That's ridiculous. Right. Yeah. I mean. And you only get. One or two shots. And then the. Then the execs are going to be like. They're not going to take your meetings anymore. Right. And so. You need to be smart about it. Right. Right. You need to. You need to. Do. Do your homework. Find out. Do your due diligence. Yes. From every single aspect. See what shows are on the air. Now. See what shows are popular there. Yep. The time format. The pacing of it. And what's. What's. What people are watching. It's an interesting time. It's an interesting time. For. Once again. For. The internet has changed. Everything. Yeah. Yeah. The internet has changed. Just. Has. Because. Because you can produce content. And just like. Sell it on the internet too. Right. Or show it on the internet. And get ad dollars. And. I think Amazon. Just came up. With. They'll put your show on. And. Share. Share. Revenue with you. And it just came out. On their site. Yeah. Just like the. Three or four days ago. Really. It just came out. Really. Interesting. I think it's Amazon. Interesting. I think it's Amazon. So revenue sharing network. Online. Online revenue sharing. Something like that. Yeah. But it's like. You know. Yeah. We'll take your show. We'll put it on. And then if. You produce it. We don't. We don't risk anything. Nope. And then if it gets hit. Obviously it's on our network. People are already coming here. Yep. And we split the. We will split the cost. Whatever. The profits with you somehow. Interesting. That's actually an interesting model. Yeah. So. All right. So we're going to wrap this up. But what have you been up to lately? What are you up to? What. I mean. Something that you want to talk about. That you're up to. That you care to. Enlighten. You know. I mean. I'm. You know. I'm always looking for good scripted ideas. I really want to produce. A Latino based. Drama. Like a soap opera. Yeah. Like. You know. Like. Like. History of California. Interesting. Something that's real. Sort of. You know. Have a lot of depth about it. Interesting. For what network? Where do you see this? History channel? I don't know if it's a history channel. Or maybe Amazon. Or. You know. Because it's. It's. You know. I love television. I love watching this stuff. I love. You know. Television and movies to me are the same thing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I love watching. I love the box. Yeah. Yeah. I love. The box can be my. Have you been. My phone. Have you been to. The Museum of Natural History. They have like an ongoing permanent exhibition of the history of Los Angeles. It's amazing. No. They have artifacts. No. I haven't seen that. We should go. Okay. For sure. It's really amazing. For sure. Because the history of California is so rich. It's the origins of how Los Angeles came about. From the beginning. From like the 1800s. From the Mexicans to the settlers and the gold rush and the whole nine yards. Amazing. From water. The water fucking rights wars and all that shit. So. Cool man. I gotta go do that. I didn't know that was there. No. We should do it. We should do it. Yeah. For sure. We'll have a date. Okay. Because it's an amazing thing to do. That sounds awesome. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well. That concludes another wonderful episode of Nestorius Public Radio. Thank you so much Rick. Awesome. For being my guest. I would love to have you again at another time. If this is your first time listening to the show. Welcome. Come to the WePlayRadio.com site. Subscribe to our shows. Either on iTunes or on WePlay Radio. Check out the rest of the shows on WePlay Radio. Tell everybody about the show. And like us on Facebook. Facebook.com forward slash NestoriusNYC. Yow. Peace. It's me. It's me. It's me. It's me. It's me. It's me. It's me. I ain't doing nothing but talking shit, so y'all gotta, like, you know, encourage me the whole way along. Ow. I ain't doing nothing but talking shit, so y'all gotta, like, you know, encourage me the whole way along. Ow.