Hello and welcome to the life of an entrepreneur. I'm Jan McCarthy with Entrepreneurial Voice and we are broadcasting live from skidrowstudios.com and we're a real radio on the internet and we're here every Tuesday at 11 a.m pacific standard time and we're here to talk about entrepreneurship and share what the life of an entrepreneur is like and just like who is a who is an entrepreneur what entrepreneurship is all about share business tips and and other things about our lives and if you have any questions we'd love to hear from you you can call in to 1-800-893-9562 and today I'm interviewing Andrea and she has a company called the art of circling so welcome welcome welcome welcome I'm so happy to have you here thank you I'm so happy to be here this is exciting so tell us just the art of circling for for our listeners who don't know what is that the art of circling in its simplest form is a group of people getting together with an agreed-upon intention and sitting in a circle and sharing their experiences and their stories it's actually the art of listening and the art of storytelling combined well I was introduced to you probably gosh I think about five years ago and I had never heard of anything like this and I had the opportunity and the privilege to be invited into one of these circles and I can only describe it as something so phenomenal and such a magical kind of experience and a bonding experience and really getting in touch so what you do is it's quite incredible of course you're very talented in many other other areas so let's kind of back up a little bit and talk about who is Andrea and uh how and then we'll kind of explore of how you got started doing what you're doing absolutely well first and foremost I'm an actress and an artist so I moved out to California when I was 25 to be an actress and luckily enough I found success acting and I landed with a group of incredible friends and women who were not only in the entertainment business they were actresses and musicians and producers directors writers and they also happened to be a group of women who were circling so this journey to circling which is where I'm at right now went side by side with my journey as an actress the group and I found myself drawn to and spending a lot of time with we're exploring this circle format and we would circle up in Laurel Canyon on this incredible Hillside overlooking all of Los Angeles and we would sit in a circle and basically pass a talking piece a talking stick and share our experiences of what was happening in our really exciting and really challenging lives and at the age of 25 I found like I had found a home that I never knew I needed or was looking for and that was in a circle of primarily women sharing their stories and I learned so much about myself about other women about that I wasn't alone in this crazy Journey I was on as an actress in California so that's that's how the two kind of started simultaneously I love how you describe that because it it dispels the notions that that women aren't there to support each other and and that um you know especially in Los Angeles which I've talked about before I feel like it's kind of a bad rap but but so important for uh you to have kind of your your tribe or your circle or your group or whatever to help you navigate whatever it is that you may be doing whether you're in the entertainment industry or anything else and and people draw so much from that experience and uh the art the circling has been around forever right I mean yes would you share a little bit of that history well sure before I go into the history I want to talk to what you just what you started with which is so I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say I've led hundreds and hundreds of circles and what I find in I'll say 99.9% of every circle that I've 99.9% of every circle that I've 99.9% of every circle that I've led is that women are craving supportive led is that women are craving supportive led is that women are craving supportive sisterhood sisterhood sisterhood it's the opposite women aren't it's the opposite women aren't it's the opposite women aren't instinctually competitive they're actually instinctually competitive they're actually instinctually competitive they're actually taught that they're taught you know taught that they're taught you know taught that they're taught you know compete with her and you know through compete with her and you know through compete with her and you know through our culture we're taught about you our culture we're taught about you our culture we're taught about you should look a certain way and you should should look a certain way and you should should look a certain way and you should act a certain way and you're taught to act a certain way and you're taught to act a certain way and you're taught to be competitive in in a way that's not be competitive in in a way that's not be competitive in in a way that's not natural it's actually more natural for natural it's actually more natural for natural it's actually more natural for women to tend and befriend one another women to tend and befriend one another women to tend and befriend one another women do better when they have support women do better when they have support women do better when they have support from other women and you and I from other women and you and I from other women and you and I experienced it firsthand with a lot of experienced it firsthand with a lot of experienced it firsthand with a lot of entrepreneurs in our women's group the entrepreneurs in our women's group the entrepreneurs in our women's group the self-empowerment group that I led for self-empowerment group that I led for self-empowerment group that I led for those few years that we weren't in those few years that we weren't in those few years that we weren't in competition we were excited to support competition we were excited to support competition we were excited to support one another right there was no one another right there was no one another right there was no competition because there's enough for competition because there's enough for competition because there's enough for everybody and everybody's unique and everybody and everybody's unique and everybody and everybody's unique and everybody's on their own path it's even everybody's on their own path it's even everybody's on their own path it's even in a town like Hollywood where it feels in a town like Hollywood where it feels in a town like Hollywood where it feels highly competitive right so in the highly competitive right so in the highly competitive right so in the circle we were finding that we were circle we were finding that we were circle we were finding that we were benefiting from all of this support that benefiting from all of this support that benefiting from all of this support that we were receiving and so now to talk we were receiving and so now to talk we were receiving and so now to talk about the history of circling well and I about the history of circling well and I about the history of circling well and I just want to take that one step we'll just want to take that one step we'll just want to take that one step we'll get to the history but but this is also get to the history but but this is also get to the history but but this is also about the life and and I love that you about the history of circling well and I love that you about the history of circling well and I love that you have taken this to a whole have taken this to a whole have taken this to a whole nother level I mean you certainly do all nother level I mean you certainly do all nother level I mean you certainly do all kinds of circles for baby blessings for kinds of circles for baby blessings for kinds of circles for baby blessings for brides-to-be for birthdays for any rite brides-to-be for birthdays for any rite brides-to-be for birthdays for any rite of passage any any big milestone of passage any any big milestone of passage any any big milestone someone's retiring someone's getting someone's retiring someone's getting someone's retiring someone's getting ready to transition into you know out ready to transition into you know out ready to transition into you know out of their body I've done you name it we of their body I've done you name it we of their body I've done you name it we can all moon and all moon but what I can all moon and all moon but what I can all moon and all moon but what I really love in addition to all of those really love in addition to all of those really love in addition to all of those kinds kinds of events that that you're kinds kinds of events that that you're kinds kinds of events that that you're called to do a circle is that you're called to do a circle is that you're called to do a circle is that you're also incorporating this into your also incorporating this into your also incorporating this into your daughter's school and and and with your daughter's school and and and with your daughter's school and and and with your son as well or yes okay yes so I love son as well or yes okay yes so I love son as well or yes okay yes so I love that you're introducing that giving that you're introducing that giving that you're introducing that giving spirit sharing your story spirit and spirit sharing your story spirit and spirit sharing your story spirit and helping the children to you know you're helping the children to you know you're helping the children to you know you're starting from the grade you're changing starting from the grade you're changing starting from the grade you're changing the world you're starting from the the world you're starting from the the world you're starting from the ground up awesome I'm glad so now we can ground up awesome I'm glad so now we can ground up awesome I'm glad so now we can talk about the history well I'll talk talk about the history well I'll talk talk about the history well I'll talk about the kids that doing this circle about the kids that doing this circle about the kids that doing this circle work in school it's actually a program work in school it's actually a program work in school it's actually a program called way of counsel that I did a called way of counsel that I did a called way of counsel that I did a training up in the Ojai foundation at the training up in the Ojai foundation at the training up in the Ojai foundation at the Ojai foundation and the most magical Ojai foundation and the most magical Ojai foundation and the most magical part about teaching children how to sit part about teaching children how to sit part about teaching children how to sit in a circle and share their stories in a circle and share their stories in a circle and share their stories you're not teaching them to write an you're not teaching them to write an you're not teaching them to write an essay and share their story this is essay and share their story this is essay and share their story this is coming from who they are what they've coming from who they are what they've coming from who they are what they've already experienced in their small young already experienced in their small young already experienced in their small young life or their past life I've had that life or their past life I've had that life or their past life I've had that where kids will have memories come where kids will have memories come where kids will have memories come through of something that happened in through of something that happened in through of something that happened in another time but that they are learning another time but that they are learning another time but that they are learning empathy and they are learning empathy and they are learning empathy and they are learning connectivity at this early age because connectivity at this early age because connectivity at this early age because look we know we are in a high-tech look we know we are in a high-tech look we know we are in a high-tech very low low touch world we don't spend very low low touch world we don't spend very low low touch world we don't spend a lot of time face-to-face we don't spend a lot of time face-to-face we don't spend a lot of time face-to-face we don't spend a lot of time literally connected to a lot of time literally connected to a lot of time literally connected to each other face-to-face we send tons of each other face-to-face we send tons of each other face-to-face we send tons of time connected electronically so to time connected electronically so to time connected electronically so to teach children how to connect that way teach children how to connect that way teach children how to connect that way it's going back to indigenous culture it's going back to indigenous culture it's going back to indigenous culture teaches where you sit in a circle and teaches where you sit in a circle and teaches where you sit in a circle and you face one another and you're on an you face one another and you're on an you face one another and you're on an equal playing field everybody is equal equal playing field everybody is equal equal playing field everybody is equal in the circle in the circle in the circle and from that place you connect and from that place you connect and from that place you connect heart to heart soul to soul spirit to heart to heart soul to soul spirit to heart to heart soul to soul spirit to spirit spirit spirit that's just fantastic and that that that's just fantastic and that that that's just fantastic and that that tells us a little bit about the history tells us a little bit about the history tells us a little bit about the history of of where it started too so i i often of of where it started too so i i often of of where it started too so i i often ask uh people where they started like ask people where they started like ask people where they started like did you know you wanted to do this when did you know you wanted to do this when did you know you wanted to do this when you were a little girl or a little boy you were a little girl or a little boy you were a little girl or a little boy or or you know how did you get the or or you know how did you get the or or you know how did you get the signals of signals of signals of that you could take what it is that that you could take what it is that that you could take what it is that you're doing now and turn it into a you're doing now and turn it into a you're doing now and turn it into a business so business so business so going to that first circle that you went going to that first circle that you went going to that first circle that you went to it at 25 and and finding that to it at 25 and and finding that to it at 25 and and finding that community your tribe your community your tribe your your community your tribe your your your group your group your group and getting that support uh and getting that support uh and getting that support uh was that like really the the very first was that like really the the very first was that like really the the very first experience or or experience or or experience or or because there's a certain because there's a certain because there's a certain there's certain skills that you have that there's certain skills that you have that there's certain skills that you have that make you an incredible leader and i've make you an incredible leader and i've make you an incredible leader and i've do you think that you were always do you think that you were always do you think that you were always craving something like that did you craving something like that did you craving something like that did you always kind of feel like oh i know always kind of feel like oh i know always kind of feel like oh i know there's going to be a higher purpose i there's going to be a higher purpose i there's going to be a higher purpose i mean mean mean how did this kind of come about there how did this kind of come about there how did this kind of come about there was a time i was it was my was a time i was it was my was a time i was it was my girlfriend's threw me a bridal shower girlfriend's threw me a bridal shower girlfriend's threw me a bridal shower circle circle and i was so fortunate because i had and i was so fortunate because i had and i was so fortunate because i had somebody in the circle from every stage somebody in the circle from every stage somebody in the circle from every stage of my life i had someone from childhood of my life i had someone from childhood of my life i had someone from childhood junior high high school college and so junior high high school college and so junior high high school college and so on on on and my friend from junior high who i had and my friend from junior high who i had and my friend from junior high who i had known since i was 12. known since i was 12. known since i was 12. she said dre's been doing this since we she said dre's been doing this since we she said dre's been doing this since we were kids were kids were kids she used to call us all together like at at the end of the year, and I didn't really remember this until she said it, she would call us all together at the end of the year and say, you know what, we need to sit down. We need to like powwow about what happened this year and reflect back to each other, like what's going on, how we could be better friends, like what we need to forgive. And I don't really remember that, but she said that it was instinctually in my nature to share, to share and to use each other as a support and as a way of self-reflection and as a way of growth. And when I moved out here, and look, I'm an actress, so theater and acting, it's very ritualistic, you know, as far back as the, you know, the ancient stories go, that's where theater began. And so there's something very theatrical about circling for me and about leading and about I guess it's channeling information, which is what I think actors do. Like they're, they're open channels, like whatever that is that needs to come through, they just have the ability to translate it. And I feel the same way about circling. I feel like I'm translating information that wants to come through for the collective. So I've said in many circles, I'm answering the call, not my call, I'm answering the call of, the people that want this circle to take place. And there's a magic as to who shows up for each and every circle because they, they are needing something or they are wanting to transmit something. And I'm just the facilitator that helps bring that to light. So going from these organically organized circles and, and maybe you all even met once a month or met under the full moon or, or did something to call everyone together because when you were, 25, you're still quite young, but you know, you didn't have the means of communication that we have now. This is true. So, you know, you all had some sort of system, but at some point you said, this is really speaking to me. I would like to take this to a different level. When I was circling just with my girlfriends and I got inspired to put up a teepee in my backyard. So that's where we were circling in this teepee on a regular basis, full moons, new moons, and for celebrations. Whenever there was somebody new that came into the circle. So let's say I was doing a birthday circle for you, Jan, and your daughters were there and your friends were there and they had never experienced a circle before. It was when I heard those women afterwards, tell me or email me or share with me how much this affected them and how many people would say changed their life because it was, it was something they were yearning for, but they didn't even know it. So then they sat in a circle and they were transformed. It was when those experiences were adding up and I was experiencing the same thing. I was facilitating them, but I was experiencing the same thing. I was healing certain things in my life. I was manifesting certain things in my life. I was laughing, crying, like, really having an incredible experience within these circles. But it was when people started to ask me, how can I do this? And would you do this for me? And can you send me? So I would, I would write outlines for women and email them to, so that they could do a birthday circle for their mom. Or I would, so I just started giving away this gift that I enjoyed so much. And that's when people said, well, will you come to my house and lead a circle? Will you come to my ranch and lead a circle in my teepee? Will you come? And I said, yes, yes, yes. I just kept saying yes. And that's how the circle business was born. That's how I came to do it as a profession. Did you, so a lot of times when we're doing something and you're, you're still a very successful actress, but did you feel sometimes when we're multi-talented in that way or multi serial entrepreneur or multi-entrepreneur or whatever you want to call it, and you've got all these different businesses, are you feeling, did you feel like, well, if I, if I contribute to this one, I'm taken away from that one? Yes and no. Just because time is real, that if I was focused on acting, I wasn't focused as much on circling. I do both simultaneously. I also now have experienced that they're interconnected. So one's not separate. I have my acting world and my circle world. And now there's just my Dre world where I kind of do a lot of things and I enjoy everything that I do. And I'm a mother and I volunteer in the school where I lead circles. They're all, they're all connected. But there was a time when I was very busy doing both and I wasn't doing either one very well, where I was trying to be fully committed over here and fully committed over there. And it was impossible. So now I'm more focused on my circle work, less focused on my acting career. But that, that may change tomorrow. But you've also been able to incorporate a certain flexibility within what you're doing so that if you, if you feel like, kind of like children, some children need more attention at different times than others. So being able to balance and manage and, and, and be able to continue on to do the things that you love, but still be able to give the focus where focus is needed. So as an artist, and I understand this, and sometimes artists feel this way, there's a distinct of wanting to, especially in seeing you in the circle, seeing how much you give. And it's a very giving kind of thing and, and comes from a place of great generosity. And compassion and, and then there's the business side where I'm valued for what I am able to do. And I need to collect money for it. Because it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy and preparation. Not only in education, because I know you've taken you take continue to, to do things to educate and improve yourself and improve your craft. And, and education in terms of putting together as doing groups, but in a complete business sense, the preparation and the education that you have to give yourself to be able to put on a fabulous circle that is very meaningful to the women. So how do you reconcile that between the business side and have you and because I feel like your information will really help our listeners who do have that artistic side, and it's kind of like, Oh, I just love doing this. And I love giving it. But, but wait a minute, I should make some money. It's not just a hobby. There is a journey with learning your value and learning how to charge for it. I remember when I came up to lead a retreat, I mean, lead a circle at your retreat, the entrepreneurial retreat. And we there was a woman there who made this incredible granola. And she had a really hard time charging for it. And we were all really, I've never, this was the best granola I've ever tasted. And we told her, she was like, yeah, but it's just this thing that I do. It's no big deal. And we all said, that's why you should be doing it. Because to you, it's no big deal. I have no desire to make my own granola, like furthest thing from my wheelhouse. I want to buy the granola. I want to buy your granola. Tell me how much it's worth. I will buy it. And when I had that conversation with that woman, it helped me understand my value, which is not everybody wants to lead circles. I do them effortlessly. I do them joyfully. I think it's the most natural thing in the world. I feel like it's like getting dressed in the morning. That's how I lead a circle. I had to understand that other people don't want to do this, but they want to experience it. That's when I learned how to charge for what I do. It took me a long time because I wanted to give it away for free. Because I thought, well, it's very, it's very spiritual. It's very, anybody can do this. And then someone said, but someone coming to your circle does not have the experience that you have. You have a 20-year experience of leading circles. Well, 20 years, 10 of them attending them, 10 of them leading them. But I have a 20-year experience with the art of circling. That's what they're paying for. They're paying for the education. They're paying for the classes that you took to study this up in Ojai. They're paying for the history that you are carrying with you into each and every circle. Just like the woman selling their granola. How many batches did she have to burn? How many batches did she throw out? How many batches did she give away and get the feedback of this is the best batch? That's what I'm paying for. I'm paying the whatever $10 that she thinks is crazy to sell granola for. And I'm saying, no, no, no, no, no. I want the granola. Give it to me. I'll give you $10. It's worth that for me. And you helped me with that, with understanding my worth. And I had to practice it. I had to practice charging for circles, charging for circles. And now I do it effortlessly and joyfully. And I also understand that in order for someone to receive what it is I'm giving, that there is an energetic exchange that if I want them to accept my gift, they want to pay for it. Exactly. Yes. And that's such an important point to bring up. I love how you described it and, and, and really helped people to understand it. I mean, not only is that kind of about selling, but because we're kind of selling every day, but also understand that when you in business, you're giving something, but you're not giving it. And I think that's a really important point. You're also receiving something. And it also helps people to value it more because as a society, we're kind of used to being able and we're willing, we're willing to pay for something that we feel like we're getting a value from. And when it's just given away, we don't always, as sad as it is, we don't always appreciate it in its entirety. There was someone in one of your mastermind classes, I think it was Cindy Finkel, who said, or, or I've noticed with Cindy, people that respect money and value money are very willing to pay for things and they expect to be paid in return. It's like a, it's like an upper level of agreement and that people that don't want to spend money or don't have a lot of money or kind of want things for free, they stay in a low vibrational agreement with money. Right. It's like, they're always looking for the sale. I am a sale shopper, of course, but if they only want the sale, if they only want the break, if they only want the, the bargain, then they're, they're kind of living a, like a, it's like a bargain existence. And I love, and I love watching Cindy who has a cafe and an art studio, who is an incredible entrepreneur. She has a very high respect for money. Yes. Yes. And, and she also, she and anyone else who, who has a cafe, who has a cafe, who understands that, uh, is, is learning how to attract the right customer. So, or client, because if you, if people only want to come to you, if they can get it for free, then that's not really the kind of people that you want to share your gift with. Um, and that doesn't mean that if someone is struggling or something that you might, might have compassion, understanding, kind of thing. I mean, you're an extremely generous and giving person, but it's not the kind of client that you want to attract. For many of my circles, I will charge a certain price. And then I will also say no one turned away due to funds because I don't want anybody to feel like they can't have this experience. I do invite them to pay at the level at which they are at currently, and they could have very little money. And if all they can give me is a dollar, I accept that dollar. Or if all they can give is 20 or 50, whatever it is, I accept it as a way to honor where they are. And also to say, I, I expect you, I expect you to participate in this exchange, no matter, no matter what the level is. And, and it's a, it's a way to respect that person. Yes. Respecting them and asking them to respect you. And I, I think it's a great, great way of doing business. I want to remind our listeners that if you want to call in, you may be wondering where I want to go to one of these, uh, or just know more or, uh, get in touch with Andrea. Uh, first of all, you can call into our show. The number is 1-800-893-9562. Uh, can you give them your contact information? Sure. You can, sure. You can email me at Andrea at theartofcircling.com. My website, I think it's in transition right now, but it is the art of circling. Um, where else? I think that's the best way to reach me. Facebook, Facebook. I have the art of circling on Facebook. Or you can contact me and I'll help you contact Andrea. Instagram, the art of circling. Yeah. So I, that's great. So that they can, uh, get in touch with you. And it's Andrea Bendewald at Twitter. That's what, that's my Twitter account is Andrea Bendewald, B-E-N-D-E-W-A-L-D. Cool. Thank you. Uh, so do you, did you, did it feel like, I mean, from everything you've described and this happens, sometimes you just start doing something like we talked about the granola, we talked about you doing the circling. Um, it just kind of leads organically into this business and then you start charging for it. Uh, was there a moment where it transitioned from this, something I do that this is a business and I need to treat it as such and build a website and, and, and do all of those things and, and invest in it. Like not only invest in taking the classes to be, even though as long as I've known you and I know you've continued to educate yourself, you're fantastic, but, but to continue to improve yourself and provide an enriching experience. Someone told me that the value of that. So you, you have this, let's say it's an original idea. Oh, I'm going to open a certain type of store. Let's say that you don't just think I'm the only one that it's really important that you connect with other people that are doing something similar, you know, like building your hive. And, and that's what I learned how to do with circling. I used to think I'm the only person that did this until I started to connect with tons of people are doing this. And it was when that moment happened that I wanted to be connected more to other people. And that's when I turned it into a more lucrative and, and connected business, I guess when it became legit for me is when I wanted to share it with more people. And I wanted to, as an entrepreneur, be in charge more of my own financial stability and my own schedule and my own, um, joy. Like I was getting so much joy out of doing this that I was like, Oh, I'm ready. I'm ready to get my doing business as, and I'm ready to get my web site up and I'm ready to really go after it more. Really, you know, the woman with the granola, we were telling her, go after this. This could be amazing. Go after it. So that, that was the moment when I realized I wasn't the only one doing it. Thank God. And I wanted to, I wanted to share and connect more. Was there anything, uh, scary about it? The only thing that was scary about it was sometimes I would have nerves. I would have nerves. I would have nerves. I would have nerves before I led a circle. And I knew it was just because I cared so much about it. So I was never, it was the, it was the one place in my life. I would feel like adrenaline and excitement kind of like before a acting job, but not a lot of fear, not a lot of fear. There's something about, I think it's an art form. I think that the right people are attracted to it. And when I say the right people, I mean, people that are really going to benefit from it. So, so the fear factor, I guess if I had to really reach for it, there would be fear of failure at some point that that would, you know, I've been doing it for a long time. And there were times that I thought, no, am I really going to do this? Is it really going to be my thing that I do? And I did it anyway, but that was the fear, the fear of, you know, not succeeding. What is your philosophy about competition? And, and, and I, I think we all need to embrace that more that, yes, we welcome competition and that we also, there's plenty of room for all of us. By the same token, we also want to stand out. We need to stand out. We need to separate. We don't want to just be a copycat of, of everybody out there who's all doing the same thing, because that's boring. And, and it doesn't really help our, it doesn't actually even call for something deeper that helps us to want to improve what it is that we're doing. And so how did you come about and say, okay, I've been leading these circles or I've been to other circles that other people have led. How do I want to distinguish myself to provide not only the best value that I can, but to kind of put my own original stamp on what it is that I do? Hmm. From the, from the beginning, I, I understood that I was following my intuition, following my creativity and following my originality. And yes, I probably worried at some point that I did or didn't want to be like somebody else, but I always just went back to do what you love and do what's coming to you. Like we're all these divine channels for creativity. And even if I tried to do it like you, Jan, I couldn't. So I would always just go back to, you know, what's the thing that I do where time stands still, where what I'm doing, I just get lost. And I, and I don't think about the time, like that's pure creativity. And I think that's where, that's where the originality comes through. That's where, oh, I'm going to do it my own way comes through. And we know a lot of creative women and we could say that about all of them, no two are the same. And when they do it their way, it's when they're the most creative and the most successful and they all have their own unique brand and stamp and, and it's theirs. It's them. It's not something they went out and bought. It's something that came through them during their creative process. And I want to point out that one is not better than the other, that it's, it's just, it's, it's what different people connect to and, and, and the experience that you give them that, that helps to, to make it stand out too. And again, and that's what, one of the things that you're so wonderful at Jan is nurturing someone's uniqueness and helping them find their voice. And that's what I love to do too. I love to watch women experience themselves coming into their own power through the art of circling that they, they kind of wake up to themselves. They hear themselves speak in a way that they've never heard before. Cause they've never had the platform. They've never been in a relationship before. They're sharing and it's not about getting ahead. It's not about competition. It's not about a career. It's not about their kid's school. It's not about fun. What all the things that no judgment, there's no judgment. So all they are experiencing is hopefully their true self, their true voice, their true experience of themselves. And through that, they start to kind of wake up more to their own creative creativity. And you know, that's one of the things that I love to do. And I think, I think it's also such a, a teaching thing that you do. So not only is that an experience that you're giving someone, but you're also teaching them something that they may not even realize after they've left the circle. And there'll be many realizations that they will come to over the, between attending a circle and the next time they attend one. But one of them that I've always paid attention to and noticed, as I've watched you, um, envelop everyone and, and with such grace and charm is you're really teaching people to listen, uh, to completely unplug, uh, even though you don't tell them they can't have a cell phone. Uh, I don't know that unless it was an emergency that people are really focused on that. They're so enthralled in and involved in the circle. It's one of those kind of moments stand, stand still. But you also, with the use of the talking stick, if, if I may say, uh, you really teach people to listen to. And so, uh, to themselves and to each other. So you're really teaching them quiet. Absolutely. Teaching them listening or they're experiencing true listening for the first time. We listen all day long, but very often we're listening with an agenda. We're listening to what we're going to say next. We're listening. How do I fit into this conversation? So our ego is really engaged. And very rarely are we sitting with the permission to not respond. So with the talking stick, the talking stick is one of the simple, um, guidelines of circling is that whoever has the talking stick has everyone's full attention. And we don't interrupt with our own thoughts, with our own affirmations, with our own disagreements, but we really just sit and we hold the space for that person to speak. And something amazing happens. When we give somebody that gift of true listening, it's a very healing process and we take in so much more. So we're actually taking in the person who's speaking and we're taking in their experience on a deeper level. It's a, it's an incredible experience. So as you have developed this too, I mean, it's, it's a very fine art. It's a, it's a viable business. It's, it's all of those things. But as you have developed this, what are the ways that you think about expanding? So there's always product, there's always, uh, and, and as, in, as entrepreneurs, we always want to continue to, to, to stay viable and think about possibly how our, our legacy, our, our business can go on, even if we're not there physically doing that. Right. Running the show. Exactly. So to expand the art of circling, I have visions of a book, a workbook, really teaching other people how to do it. A celebration tutorial, as it were, like how to use the art of circling for everyday celebrations and not, and for women's self empowerment groups. So there's that idea through the website and having a blog and having, kind of take away gifts so people can take this and do it wherever they are and integrate it into their own lives. And then also products that I love, like cards to pull, uh, in a circle, you know, like, um, the cards that, that I bring into the circle all the time, like, like inspirational cards, inspirational cards and quotes. And then also I love to make talking sticks and I make them with the kids in school and I teach them how to do it. So having some type of tutorial or some type of kit or some type, I have all these ideas of how to get it out there more and more and more and more and more. So that's what I'm working on currently. That sounds great. Now, did you put together the program at the school called the way of the council, or is that something that school had and you brought in, uh, your, your interpretation of that? So way of council is an actual program that exists that was built at, through the Ojai program that is used in governments and in corporations and in over 40 LAUSD schools. So there's over, I don't know what the number is of students that are learning and practicing circling in school. And so I did the training at the Ojai foundation and learned their program. And that's the program that I bring into the kids' schools. Wow. That's exciting. I didn't know that. I didn't know that we, we had those kinds of resources in our school system, especially since my children are grown. What's the toughest part of being in charge? You're, you're in charge of all of this. What's the toughest part? The toughest part is staying disciplined. That's the toughest part. It's easy to get distracted for me, for me, I can get distracted. I can have big goals and then I get distracted. You really have to be your own boss. You really have to be your own boss. You really have to be your own boss. You really have to be your own boss. You really have to be your own boss. You really have to be your own boss. And I think that's one of the things that's really important in your programs of having an accountability partner. That really helps when you're an entrepreneur, because it's hard to constantly just be accountable for yourself and setting goals and following through. That's really important and can be, can be a challenge. And then also finding people that do things better than you do. So I'm not a great website designer. And I tried for the longest time to do it myself until someone said, there are other people that are much better at this than you. You're good at circles. Go get somebody to design your website. So reaching out, asking for help, finding the right resources, all those super important. Is it easy to ask for help? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. For me, I've learned. You've taught me. Other people have taught me. It's necessary that there are other people that know more than you do. We've had lots of friends that, we watch try to do it on their own. And we would just give them one little idea. Just go, just go left and ask this person. And they did. And then their whole business exploded. Yeah. So that's what I'm learning, like how to, how to let it explode. Because as I love to study, like when you put something out there, synchronicity starts to happen and things start to line up in your favor. I'm in a deep practice of being aware of those signs. And when I'm doing it, I'm like, I'm trying to get something in motion, letting those people come into my life that are going to help me do that. Well, I think that's so important as an entrepreneur to understand that you can't do it yourself. And I've said this before, and it, it, it, it's important to repeat. I think that if we focus on our genius work and we're doing the things that we love and that we're best at, then we're actually going to expand our business and, and, and put out a better business. Um, if we do that. So I know when I totally waste my time trying to figure out how to, and there's certain things that you do have to have a certain rudimentary knowledge of, but if I'm going to go in there and try and build a whole website from scratch, uh, that would consume all of my time. I would probably hate my business by the time it was all over. And I can't even say that it would ever work. So it is important to try and find people who match who you are, that, that get what it is you're trying to do. Um, and, and, and help you to do, to, uh, get those things done that need to get done so that you can do the business of running your business and being in business. And I would say, and find people to help you that absolutely love what they do, like gravitate towards people that are as in love with their job as you are with yours. That's a great message for this month too, which my masterminds are all about love. And, uh, and, um, obviously it's the month for love, but I agree loving what you do and finding someone who loves what they do is super important. And someone that's going to say, Oh yeah, no problem. I can totally do that for you. Yeah. Great. Give me the job. I'll do it. You know, someone that's hungry because they love what they do. And then the other thing I was, that just came to me and I don't know what you said that inspired it, but I was thinking about this for the entrepreneur is that you treat every job product moment as if it's your first, because the most important part of being an entrepreneur is word of mouth and positive reviews. That's the most, that's what I find my whole business. My entire business is based on word of mouth. I don't advertise. I don't fish for people to come. It is all word of mouth. And that's because I treat every circle, as if it's my first and last. So my standard of quality for my service product is really high. Just wanted to throw that in there. No, that's great advice. And like every cup of coffee, every bowl of granola, every, whatever your product is or your business is that, that every single one is high, high, high quality. Well, we can, we can have all the fancy things like the website and all of that. And that certainly can help and Instagram and Twitter and, and, and hashtags and everything else. But that word of mouth, it can, it can sink you or it can blow it up for you and, and make it propel you to. Right. You can make all the t-shirts you want. I used to say to my, to my friend who would like make t-shirts before they even opened their business. And I would go, what are you doing? You're like, well, like when we let's hit big first, you know, and then have the t-shirts, but I kind of liked it because it was positive thinking. He was like ready to, you know, give away, sell 30, you know, 30,000 t-shirts or whatever. So, so both go hand in hand. But yeah. Yeah. So, but if you're wearing them and people are going, oh my gosh, where'd you get that t-shirt? Then, then, then, then that's going to help you. But you can't, you can't fake quality. You can't. So you can't, and you can't stop word of mouth, good or bad. So that, that should always be like the most, the most important thing. Right. Right. So if, the fact that you work on your own, do you get up every morning with like a, and, and obviously you need to be flexible. You've got children, you've got a husband, you've got your acting career, you've got coaching with your acting career and you've got circles and you're promoting them through letting people know that you're having a circle or, you know, managing your contact list and, and all of the things and, and putting together promotional materials to provide to people who are invited to a circle. How do you manage that? I need to get up and do this. Mm-hmm. Do you have a calendar? Do you, what's your day like? I've learned, so before having children, I was very, you know, and being an, an actress and being a Pisces, I was very fluid and very, each day just unfolded as it was going to, and I had no real structure and it was fantastic. Well, with kids, I had to develop structure with getting them to school and doctors and everything else, play dates and they eat a lot and you have to shop for food all the time, which was great because it helped with my current life now, which is I have to have a schedule. I have to have a date book where this is when the invites go out. This is when I need to have RSVPs. This is when I need to schedule, schedule, schedule. So that's how I, I wake up each morning. I'm a, I'm a new, I meditate now, which really helps. That's my new practice. And through meditation, everything just kind of lines up and I just kind of download what it is I need to do for the day. And then I try to stick to a flexible but very specific schedule. Well, I'm glad you mentioned about meditation too, because I was going to ask me yours, your, your, we all get stressed. So your business, this is a very calming kind of thing that you do with the circling, but there's still a certain amount of stress in everyone's life. And, and especially with business. So I was going to ask, how do you de-stress? What is your go-to to just kind of stay calm and, and, and get re-centered? Mm-hmm. So the new practice is meditation. I'm doing transcendental meditation. So I meditate twice a day for 20 minutes, once in the morning, once in the afternoon. Life changer. In addition to that, and prior to, prior to that, it was circling. Circling is what, it was a spiritual practice and it kept me grounded. Again, we've talked, we talked about it was unplugging from the world. So no cell phones, no electronics, no agenda, no, it's a real de-stressor to unplug and to sit with other people. We can unplug and, you know, take a shower or we can, you know, get a massage, but to sit in community and unplug is more of a, it's more of a practice and it's more of an enriched experience because you're actually receiving energy from other people. You're giving out energy. It's real. It's like recharging your battery. I used to tell the story in circles that I went to a kid's birthday party with two kids and my husband, and I was so stressed out because we were late and I didn't have the gift and we were at the wrong address. And we showed up late to a three-year-old's birthday party. And I was so freaked out. We walk into the room. It's tons of people. Nobody noticed we were late. Nobody noticed we didn't have a gift. Like there was nothing to be stressed out about. I was creating all my internal stress. And I turned to my husband and I was like, oh, I guess it's not that bad. And he put his hand on my back and he rubbed my back. He said, that's okay, honey. Just keep circling. Because he knew that if I, when I come out of a circle, I am de-stressed. I am realigned. I'm reconnected, both feet on the ground. And he enjoyed the benefits of me circling. And so did my family. The most stressed I was, is when I was not circling. Well, I think that's something that all of our listeners can take with them and maybe use that as a little motto, whatever their form of de-stressing is, because it is very important. And it helps you to really get clear in your business. It helps you to get clear in your life. And I would recommend everybody go to a circle, but if that's not in your neighborhood. Hold your own circle. You can do it yourself. Or hold your own. I'll teach you how. But if that's not readily available in your neighborhood right now, it will be in the future but if it's not readily available in your neighborhood right now, then find something that will help you to step back, unplug, get, whether it's meditation, whether it's going and hanging out with a group of very positive friends. Supportive, positive, yeah. Yeah, that will support and listen and whatever it is, get a massage. Anything, something that will help you to get calm, get refocused. Get clear and just take some of that stress off of you. Because when you're in that state, you're not creating, you're not giving, you're not producing, really. And so it's just more beneficial for all entrepreneurs if they can find a way to let that stress go. I absolutely agree. And I've tried it. I've tried to create while being stressed out, and it's counterproductive. You can do it. You can do it. But it's damaging to your body, it's damaging to your product, to your service. That's a really good point, Jan. To keep your stress levels low is only going to help your business and your journey. Right. Do you have a certain motto? I mean, I know you love quotes as I do. And I probably have five or six that run through my head constantly throughout the day. But is there one that you, like your go-to? I'm going to start borrowing that, keep on circling. Lately, and this is my personal quote, is everything is unfolding as it should. That it's all in God's time. It's not in my time. I used to think that I could control time and plan, and I would get frustrated when things didn't go my way. And now I'm exploring on a deeper level, the real truth that it's all unfolding as it should. It's all unfolding as it should. That one stays with me. Well, you have many skills that you've been able to translate into the art of circling. And maybe you've borrowed some from your training and success as an actress and the fact that you are a natural intuitive and even psychic and a nurturer and have such a grace and calm about you, even if you're exploding. You are late to the three-year-old's birthday party. Your persona is that you've got it all under control. But are there skills that you wish that you could develop? So those certainly have helped your business, but are there skills that you wish that you could develop to help you even more in your business? Absolutely. Public speaking. I'm still working on that, even though you would think I could do it. I'm not that skilled at it, but I am learning more. And business. I wish I knew more about business. I wish I had a more business mind. I have a couple great ideas. I mean, they're million, billion dollar ideas, but I don't have a business brain. So I have to find somebody who does, or I have to learn more. Learn, learn, learn, learn, learn more about the business aspect of everything, everything. My own business and how to start another one. I think that's my goal, my next one. And what I hear too is that we're always in a constant state of learning. And that's something that every entrepreneur needs to take into consideration. None of us know it all. We all can contribute in many different ways. And that's sort of what my mastermind group does is take all of these business minds together and help people with where they need to fill in the holes and don't know where to start. What resources to go for and, and, and even know sometimes what kind of support they actually need in that particular arena. But it's also important to constantly be in a state of learning and educating yourself and recognizing that not only is the world changing and we need to kind of change with it. And that doesn't mean not to retain your values and, and to provide excellent customer service and all of those kinds of things within your business, but to constantly be, uh, able to be in touch with, with the changes that are occurring, whether it's technologically or, or trending or, or things like that. And, and to, to recognize all of that, but just to always be in a state of learning and educating yourself and, and, and yet still know that no matter what, you're not going to know it all. Uh, how do you, we don't have a whole lot of time left, but how do you measure success? Success to me is having people in your life that love you, that enjoy being around you and that you love being around. That's my true measure of success. And that can be in work too. So I feel successful in my circle work because I'm around people that really enjoy and love what I'm doing. So I'm in a community in my work life, same with acting, same with mothering, same with my husband and my family. And I'm in a community where I'm able to be in touch with people that I love and family. I feel truly successful because I'm around people that truly, that we truly enjoy our time together. And if you had one piece of advice that you could give someone who might be thinking about starting their business, what would it be? Believe in yourself, believe in your product and find people around you that are going to support you. Find the mastermind groups, find the circles, find the supportive community, because there are other people out there that want to do what you want to do and want the same support. So give what it is you want to receive. Go, go support someone else and receive support from somebody else. And in that agreement, there will be a lot of creativity and a lot of success. I think that's wonderful, wonderful advice. Because it is so important. We're not an island. We're not alone. We can benefit so much from contributions from others and their mistakes that they have made and successes that they have achieved. And sometimes, like you said, in the circles and in my groups, there's just like a token of information, that one little piece that they may have been missing that can catapult their business to a whole nother level and grow it, grow it forward. So I I think that's valuable, valuable advice that you've shared. And everything you've talked about today has been really exciting and to learn more about your life as an entrepreneur. And before we close, I just want to say thank you so much for being on our show and tell people how they can get in touch with you if they want to. You can email me at Andrea at the art of circling.com. And pretty soon my website, the art of circling will be up and you'll be able to read all about what I've been doing and will be doing in the world of circling. All right. Well, thank you so much for being a part of my show today. It's been great talking to you. And I hope everybody gets to experience a circle at some point. Thanks.